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MacRumors
Sep 10, 2013, 02:59 PM
http://images.macrumors.com/im/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2013/09/10/iphone-5s5c-lte-band-tweaks-combine-att-and-verizon-in-one-model-add-china-mobile/)


With the introduction of the iPhone 5s (http://www.macrumors.com/2013/09/10/apple-announces-iphone-5s/) and iPhone 5c (http://www.macrumors.com/2013/09/10/apple-announces-colorful-new-iphone-5c-starting-at-99-on-two-year-contract/) today, Apple has adjusted the various combinations of LTE band support (http://www.apple.com/iphone/LTE/) for the upcoming hardware. Each of the new iPhones actually comes in four different models supporting different bands.

http://images.macrumors.com/article-new/2013/09/iphone_5s_5c.jpg
In the United States, a single model of each line supports both AT&T and Verizon, as well as T-Mobile, with support for Sprint coming in a separate model that is also compatible with KDDI and Softbank in Japan.

For UK customers, the expanded LTE band support also means that the new iPhone models will be compatible with Vodafone's new LTE network (http://www.macrumors.com/2013/08/07/vodafone-uk-announces-4g-service-rollout-begins-august-29/) in addition to continuing support for EE's network. The new devices will also be compatible with Three's LTE network (http://www.macrumors.com/2013/08/31/three-to-launch-uk-4g-service-in-december/), which launches in December.

For the first time, China will be included in the first wave of launches for a new iPhone model, and the iPhone 5s and iPhone 5c are both offered in models that supported the TD-LTE standard used by China Mobile, the world's largest carrier. Apple and China Mobile have yet to announce a deal for the iPhone, though signs have pointed (http://www.macrumors.com/2013/09/06/apple-shipping-low-cost-iphone-to-china-mobile/) to a deal being in the works.

As noted by Unwired View (http://www.unwiredview.com/2013/09/10/china-mobiles-iphone-5s-with-td-lte-support-may-already-passed-through-miit-certification/), Apple's iPhone 5s may already have received regulatory certification for TD-LTE operation in China. According to reports, China's Ministry of Industry and Information Technology issued TD-LTE certification on four devices, but sources have indicated that a fifth approval, for the iPhone 5s, was kept secret by the agency.

(Thanks, @anexanhume (https://twitter.com/anexanhume/status/377509974085091328)!)

Article Link: iPhone 5s/5c LTE Band Tweaks Combine AT&T and Verizon in One Model, Add China Mobile (http://www.macrumors.com/2013/09/10/iphone-5s5c-lte-band-tweaks-combine-att-and-verizon-in-one-model-add-china-mobile/)



chrmjenkins
Sep 10, 2013, 03:01 PM
De nada.

saud0488
Sep 10, 2013, 03:02 PM
Does this mean that it'll come unlocked? I know the likely answer is "no" but didn't verizon have some deal with FCC that required it to be unlocked?

SONiC5
Sep 10, 2013, 03:02 PM
The SoftBank/Sprint/KDDI model should've supported Band 41 LTE.

bradl
Sep 10, 2013, 03:04 PM
Does this mean that it'll come unlocked? I know the likely answer is "no" but didn't verizon have some deal with FCC that required it to be unlocked?

Not only this, but what about the other carriers? We can't assume that they use the same LTE bands, no?

So what about Rogers, Fido, Telstra, Optus, Orange, etc.? Do they use the same bands as ATT, VZW, and T-Mobile?

BL.

CrAkD
Sep 10, 2013, 03:08 PM
thats kind of cool. making it easier to swap carriers.

saud0488
Sep 10, 2013, 03:12 PM
thats kind of cool. making it easier to swap carriers.

Easier, sure. But there's still the problem of the carriers themselves.

Lostanddamned
Sep 10, 2013, 03:13 PM
So, as far as I know O2 in the UK operates on an 800mHz LTE band. I read this and understood it to be band 8. Is this not the case?

Am I going to be switching providers come the 20th?

Diode
Sep 10, 2013, 03:19 PM
Wow talk about a inventory nightmare.

36 different iPhone 5s models (For various sizes, colors and LTE models) and 40 different iPhone 5c models!

It's silly though - they could easily combine the Sprint and Verizon models together but Verizon wouldn't allow their phones to be caught on Sprint's network....

iBungie
Sep 10, 2013, 03:21 PM
I'm hoping to get this question answered as well. Timing is good for me as my 2yr O2 contract ends in October. Current O2 coverage works well for me but if they wont support these new handsets looks like I'll be moving too.

So, as far as I know O2 in the UK operates on an 800mHz LTE band. I read this and understood it to be band 8. Is this not the case?

Am I going to be switching providers come the 20th?

Update: I contacted O2 but so far they have no info although BBC news report this morning suggests O2 included in the networks that will support the new phones. O2 was not included in the Apple list of countries' service providers when I checked last night.

Diode
Sep 10, 2013, 03:30 PM
So, as far as I know O2 in the UK operates on an 800mHz LTE band. I read this and understood it to be band 8. Is this not the case?

Am I going to be switching providers come the 20th?

Band 8 is 900.

800 is Band 18, 19 and 20 depending on what country you are in. O2 seems to use 800 in band 20 - which all 4 models seem to support.

applefan022
Sep 10, 2013, 03:31 PM
So will VZ be able to run data/voice simultaneous? Being the same model number as AT&T

Diode
Sep 10, 2013, 03:33 PM
So will VZ be able to run data/voice simultaneous? Being the same model number as AT&T

No - as long as Verizon continues to use CDMA for calls this will be a limit.

chrmjenkins
Sep 10, 2013, 03:35 PM
No - as long as Verizon continues to use CDMA for calls this will be a limit.

It's not just that. The iPhone 5 is incapable of transmitting data over LTE and calls over the normal CDMA network even. The same limitation exists. VoLTE is needed.

BruiserB
Sep 10, 2013, 03:48 PM
So isn't Verizon prohibited from locking phones they sell that access LTE (or something like that)?

Would that mean that a subsidized Verizon iPhone can now be used freely by a T-mobile or ATT customer?

I suppose there would be a risk that the person selling it to you could have a contract problem with VZ which causes them to "Bad ESN" your phone?

50548
Sep 10, 2013, 03:57 PM
De nada.

It will be able to use Brazil's 4G for the first time as well.

chrmjenkins
Sep 10, 2013, 04:04 PM
It will be able to use Brazil's 4G for the first time as well.

They're Portuguese. Is it the same? :)

FoxyKaye
Sep 10, 2013, 04:32 PM
Anybody know what band T-Mobile's LTE Advanced will be on? It's different from the exiting T-Mobile LTE and 4G, and launching later this year. Will the 5S support it?

50548
Sep 10, 2013, 04:45 PM
They're Portuguese. Is it the same? :)

Not at all ;)

Brazil uses the 2600MHz band, so the new models released over there will be A1529 and A1530 (same as Australia, NZ, South Korea, Singapore and Hong Kong).

mrbrown
Sep 10, 2013, 05:05 PM
No - as long as Verizon continues to use CDMA for calls this will be a limit.

Well, not necessarily. If Apple changed the antenna design, it is possible that it could use LTE for data and CDMA for voice - this was an antenna limitation of the iPhone 5, IIRC.

Other Verizon phones don't have a problem doing just that...

chrmjenkins
Sep 10, 2013, 05:32 PM
Anybody know what band T-Mobile's LTE Advanced will be on? It's different from the exiting T-Mobile LTE and 4G, and launching later this year. Will the 5S support it?

No, they would have mentioned it.

Not at all ;)

Brazil uses the 2600MHz band, so the new models released over there will be A1529 and A1530 (same as Australia, NZ, South Korea, Singapore and Hong Kong).

I was talking about the phrase "de nada" :D

50548
Sep 10, 2013, 05:51 PM
No, they would have mentioned it.



I was talking about the phrase "de nada" :D

Ah ok :D - yep, we use that as well :D

VanillaCracker
Sep 10, 2013, 07:18 PM
It's silly though - they could easily combine the Sprint and Verizon models together but Verizon wouldn't allow their phones to be caught on Sprint's network....

Why?

Diode
Sep 10, 2013, 07:22 PM
Why?

CDMA allows any device that receives the carriers frequency to be on the network (The carrier has the ability to block or allow phones from connecting to it's network). Verizon and Sprint use the same technology (well besides LTE) but won't allow non-branded devices on their networks for $$ issues.

They want you to buy the device from them.

Jumpie
Sep 10, 2013, 07:49 PM
Does this mean that it'll come unlocked? I know the likely answer is "no" but didn't verizon have some deal with FCC that required it to be unlocked?

Pretty much, yes. This was the whole C Block that Google bid on that VZW out bid them just to make it an "open" network. The VZW i5 on/off contract came unlocked knowing that it would only work on ATT and Tmo 3G network.

This is pretty damn good news. I have a Tmo SIM and will be able to pop it in and out as needed. Certain areas like my home suck with VZW's LTE service but Tmo's is awesome considering they have a tower almost in my back yard. I can forward my VZW calls to my Tmo number. The only issue will be dialing out as it will register the Tmo number unless there's a way to update the number.

This is making the VZW "version" of i5S more and more appealing for VZW users especially when traveling overseas.

VanillaCracker
Sep 10, 2013, 07:54 PM
CDMA allows any device that receives the carriers frequency to be on the network (The carrier has the ability to block or allow phones from connecting to it's network). Verizon and Sprint use the same technology (well besides LTE) but won't allow non-branded devices on their networks for $$ issues.

They want you to buy the device from them.

Carriers need to cut the shi*

desimaniac
Sep 10, 2013, 09:48 PM
This site is stating that the "unlocked" iphone will only work on ATT or Tmobile, not Verizon.

http://www.tuaw.com/2013/09/10/unlocked-prices-for-iphone-5c-start-at-549-iphone-5s-at-649/

phoenixsan
Sep 10, 2013, 10:19 PM
the ATT and Verizon models in one can reduce costs and enabling the new iPhone to support the China LTE band (on selected carriers) are good financial and comercial moves. Well done Apple.....!......:D

Hand of Tim in this.....:rolleyes:


:):apple:

twotwo11
Sep 10, 2013, 11:35 PM
No - as long as Verizon continues to use CDMA for calls this will be a limit.

Verizon has some SVDO phones, like the galaxy s3. Every LTE phone on Verizon can use LTE for data and 3G for calls except the iPhone.

Morris
Sep 11, 2013, 04:35 AM
So, as far as I know O2 in the UK operates on an 800mHz LTE band. I read this and understood it to be band 8. Is this not the case?

Am I going to be switching providers come the 20th?

The EU has coordinated the 800 MHz (band 20) to be the pan-European frequency designated for LTE across all EU members. Other bands can be used (and already are) in addition but this is the one that manufacturers can be certain to work in all states.

That is why operators in the UK such as O2, Vodafone, Three and EE have started (or are planning to) using that band for LTE. It is also why phone manufacturers are now making sure that any model destined for Europe supports 800 MHz in addition to some other bands.

You can see that iPhone models A1507 (iPhone 5c) and A1457 (iPhone 5s) are aimed at European customers, they work on all European networks. This list (https://www.apple.com/iphone/LTE/) will get updated with more operators in the next months as the models go on sale in various European countries.

Diode
Sep 11, 2013, 07:48 AM
Verizon has some SVDO phones, like the galaxy s3. Every LTE phone on Verizon can use LTE for data and 3G for calls except the iPhone.

Apple doesn't like using more then one radio at a time. It's why the AT&T model drops to 3G data for calls.

saud0488
Sep 11, 2013, 08:23 AM
This site is stating that the "unlocked" iphone will only work on ATT or Tmobile, not Verizon.

http://www.tuaw.com/2013/09/10/unlocked-prices-for-iphone-5c-start-at-549-iphone-5s-at-649/

Yeah, that's how it has always been. The unlocked model is meant for GSM only.

My question was: Since the Tmobile/ATT/Verizon iphone 5 are the same model, does this mean that the they will all come unlocked? Or is it only the verizon ones that will come unlocked?

----------

Pretty much, yes. This was the whole C Block that Google bid on that VZW out bid them just to make it an "open" network. The VZW i5 on/off contract came unlocked knowing that it would only work on ATT and Tmo 3G network.

This is pretty damn good news. I have a Tmo SIM and will be able to pop it in and out as needed. Certain areas like my home suck with VZW's LTE service but Tmo's is awesome considering they have a tower almost in my back yard. I can forward my VZW calls to my Tmo number. The only issue will be dialing out as it will register the Tmo number unless there's a way to update the number.

This is making the VZW "version" of i5S more and more appealing for VZW users especially when traveling overseas.


I think I was confusing myself yesterday. I read that the ATT/Verizon/Tmobile iphones are the same model and assumed that this meant that that iphone 5s will not come unlocked for verizon. I neglected the fact that the Sprint and Verizon iPhone 5 are the same model and the sprint one is not unlocked and verizon is. My mistake.

So nothing should change. Verizon iPhone 5s/5c models should still be unlocked and these should work on LTE now on AT&T and Tmobile as well.

thekingofnerds
Sep 11, 2013, 08:29 AM
No - as long as Verizon continues to use CDMA for calls this will be a limit.

As has been said, this is not a limit of verizon, but is rather a limit of the iPhone. My razr maxx has no problem talking and surfing at the same time on 4g.

gopnick
Sep 11, 2013, 09:33 AM
Can anyone confirm that the new VZW version of the iPhone will support simultaneous LTE data and CDMA calling? As has been made clear previously, the iPhone is the only Verizon smartphone that can't do this, due to Apple's design - they didn't want two radios at the same time. Perhaps this new band tweaking will fix that.

It's the only thing keeping me on AT&T right now.

i5pro
Sep 11, 2013, 09:47 AM
I think we have to wait until someone actually gets a VZ phone and trys it out...or takes it apart and finds another antenna/radio

WakeUpDrunk
Sep 11, 2013, 11:28 AM
The real Question:


Can we talk and surf with Verizon or not?

I was not planning to upgrade, but if someone can confirm then I will upgrade to 5S from 5.

FoxyKaye
Sep 11, 2013, 11:51 AM
No, they would have mentioned it.
That's what I'm afraid of... I'll wait for some "official" word from T-Mobile, but it looks like I'm hanging on to my venerable HTC One for another year: if I'm not going to be on the LTE-Advanced network, I'd rather not shell out a bunch of money for a new iPhone right now.

Jumpie
Sep 11, 2013, 11:52 AM
The real Question:


Can we talk and surf with Verizon or not?

I was not planning to upgrade, but if someone can confirm then I will upgrade to 5S from 5.

Well, you can always upgrade and if it doesn't pan out to what you need or like, you can return to VZW within 14 days and keep your upgrade.

Diode
Sep 11, 2013, 01:08 PM
Anybody know what band T-Mobile's LTE Advanced will be on? It's different from the exiting T-Mobile LTE and 4G, and launching later this year. Will the 5S support it?

I always thought T-Mobile's upgrade path was letting LTE take-over AWS and slowly moving the HSPA+ that's there to 1900 as it sunsets GSM.

3MacTim
Sep 11, 2013, 03:33 PM
So say you don't care about voice or text. Could you still swap in a Verizon SIM and get LTE data in an unlocked GSM 5S?

Rayd5365
Sep 11, 2013, 05:27 PM
As has been said, this is not a limit of verizon, but is rather a limit of the iPhone. My razr maxx has no problem talking and surfing at the same time on 4g.

Well, it depends who you want to blame. It most certainly is a limit of Verizon(CMDA), but other phones have done things to work around the limitation and Apple -to date- has not.

As I understand it, the only way to have a CDMA(Verizon) voice call and and an LTE data session at the same time is to power up two radios simultaneously, which some other phones, like the razr maxx, do. This impacts battery life and requires other engineering compromises, which Apple has so far been unwilling to make.
So, is it the fault of Verizon's CDMA network? Yes absolutely it is. If Verizon were to change to GSM, or were to enable voice over LTE, then the iPhone 5 and earlier iPhones could do both at the same time.
This problem does not exist with AT&T on an iPhone because TDMA/GSM can have a phone and data channel open at the same time on the same radio/session.
CDMA also creates other wonkiness with how call waiting/conference calls work as well, issues which do not occur with TDMA/GSM.

Is it also Apple's fault? Well yes, sort of, other phones can do it. Apple could design around the limitation by powering two radios at once, one for CDMA voice and one for data. In the past, they have said that it required engineering & design compromises that that are unwilling to make.

My guess is that at this point Apple is no more likely to engineer a kludge for this CDMA limitation than they are to support Adobe Flash.

I would love to be wrong on this, maybe Apple has given in, or maybe Verizon is getting it's act together on Voice over LTE.
Anyone know for sure?

bjamin82
Sep 11, 2013, 07:10 PM
So does this mean an AT&T iPhone 5s will work on the In the UK on LTE?

bozzykid
Sep 11, 2013, 07:22 PM
So does this mean an AT&T iPhone 5s will work on the In the UK on LTE?

Come on people! Most of these questions can be answered by actually going to apple.com.

http://www.apple.com/iphone/LTE/

bjamin82
Sep 11, 2013, 07:25 PM
Come on people! Most of these questions can be answered by actually going to apple.com.

http://www.apple.com/iphone/LTE/

It's actually not really clear at all since the bands are all the same. On the iPhone 5 chart it was simple the bands were different.

bozzykid
Sep 11, 2013, 07:46 PM
It's actually not really clear at all since the bands are all the same. On the iPhone 5 chart it was simple the bands were different.

What do you mean? The chart clearly shows the AT&T version doesn't have band 7 which is used on European carriers.

bjamin82
Sep 11, 2013, 07:52 PM
What do you mean? The chart clearly shows the AT&T version doesn't have band 7 which is used on European carriers.

EE uses 1800 band 3... And the fine print says it could work but no guarantee so I was popping the question to the group... It's okay if you don't know

zero7
Sep 11, 2013, 09:09 PM
the list that apple is providing is very confusing and leaves so many questions unanswered!
best example: look at the 3rd (Europe) and 4th (Asia/Pacific) iPhone 5s options:

A1457 has bands 1, 2, 3, 5, 7, 8, 20
A1530 has bands 1, 2, 3, 5, 7, 8, 20, 38, 39, 40

why don't they just sell A1530 in both regions?

There must be some other difference between the models. Maybe manufacturing the antenna design with more bands is more complicated and expensive (though I really doubt that), or maybe they want to limit specific Phones to specific geographical regions either to stop skalpers from buying iPhones for regions where they are more expensive or to simply make you buy a new phone when you move to a new country if it's in a different geographical region (to generate sales?)

I guess we will have to wait for users to actually try out putting a sim into the "wrong" iPhone model and test the LTE speeds

jnpy!$4g3cwk
Sep 11, 2013, 10:55 PM
the list that apple is providing is very confusing and leaves so many questions unanswered!

--

why don't they just sell A1530 in both regions?

There must be some other difference between the models. Maybe manufacturing the antenna design with more bands is more complicated and expensive (though I really doubt that), or maybe they want to limit specific Phones to specific geographical regions either to stop skalpers from buying iPhones for regions where they are more expensive or to simply make you buy a new phone when you move to a new country if it's in a different geographical region (to generate sales?)

I guess we will have to wait for users to actually try out putting a sim into the "wrong" iPhone model and test the LTE speeds

It looks like in the U.S., most of Europe, and almost everywhere else, there is at least one carrier (sometimes more) that support LTE bands 3 or 7. So, it looks like all the GSM-only phones could be used almost anywhere if you are willing to switch carriers, since they all support bands 3 and 7? Is this true?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_LTE_networks

http://www.apple.com/iphone/LTE/

The press is making much of China because China Mobile uses TDD rather than FDD. However, in most regions there seems to be at least one carrier that uses TDD, and, Apple doesn't sell anything different for those regions, so, I have to assume that all of these phones already support both TDD as well as FDD.
However, China Mobile uses LTE bands 38, 39, and 40, and, not every phone supports those bands. In this case, only the A1529/A1530 seem to support those bands.

So, the modified question is where will the A1529/A1530 not work? They do support bands 3 and 7.

Edit: Apparently the issue with China Mobile is a proprietary version of 3G that they use:

Apple badly needs China Mobile's more than 700 million subscribers to become a serious player in the world's fastest -rowing smartphone market. A deal between Apple and China Mobile has been percolating through a series of negotiations for almost a year.

It's not immediately clear whether Apple's new iPhone 5c, if carried by China Mobile, will support China Mobile's proprietary TD-SCDMA and its upcoming TD-LTE networks.

China Mobile has had limited success with its own TD-SCDMA 3G technology, lagging behind rival China Unicom and China Telecom in 3G network penetration, 3G network subscribers and market share. The blame goes to TD-SCDMA's incompatibility with other 3G networks in China, as well as the constrained TD-SCDMA network coverage offered by China Mobile.

If Apple's iPhone 5c immediately supports China Mobile's emerging TD-LTE, along with TD-SCDMA, this might look like overkill for the moment. But China Mobile is pushing LTE hard. It would be a major Apple blunder if the iPhone 5c isn't ready for TD-LTE.

http://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1319456

kdarling
Sep 12, 2013, 02:18 PM
Can anyone confirm that the new VZW version of the iPhone will support simultaneous LTE data and CDMA calling? As has been made clear previously, the iPhone is the only Verizon smartphone that can't do this, due to Apple's design - they didn't want two radios at the same time. Perhaps this new band tweaking will fix that.

I just went and looked up the SAR reports at the FCC. Not only did they not list CDMA and LTE (SVLTE) as a test combination, they actually wrote a letter about it (E2642A is the CDMA version):

432773

As I understand it, the only way to have a CDMA(Verizon) voice call and and an LTE data session at the same time is to power up two radios simultaneously, which some other phones, like the razr maxx, do. This impacts battery life and requires other engineering compromises, which Apple has so far been unwilling to make.

They probably don't have room for another antenna, especially on the aluminum backed iPhone 5. Right now, the only all metal phone using its own case back as antennas is the HTC One.

This problem does not exist with AT&T on an iPhone because TDMA/GSM can have a phone and data channel open at the same time on the same radio/session.

Unlike Verizon, AT&T cannot do voice and LTE at the same time.

Currently, GSM phones drop back to UMTS-3G when you want to use voice and data simultaneously.

gopnick
Sep 12, 2013, 02:38 PM
I just went and looked up the SAR reports at the FCC. Not only did they not list CDMA and LTE (SVLTE) as a test combination, they actually wrote a letter about it (E2642A is the CDMA version):

432773



Thank you for going through all that trouble! Very valuable post! :apple:

kdarling
Sep 12, 2013, 03:03 PM
Thank you for going through all that trouble! Very valuable post! :apple:

You're very welcome! Btw, here are the transmit combinations that were tested (i.e. available) on the new CDMA models:

432779

chrmjenkins
Sep 12, 2013, 05:13 PM
I just went and looked up the SAR reports at the FCC. Not only did they not list CDMA and LTE (SVLTE) as a test combination, they actually wrote a letter about it (E2642A is the CDMA version)

As expected. People will have to wait for VoLTE.

Jay A whY
Sep 13, 2013, 01:43 PM
The 5s just might be worth upgrading too after all.

I have AT&T (primary) and Verizon (secondary). I sure hope with an unlock service via eBay it will factory unlock the AT&T iPhone 5s, so I can use it with my Verizon SIM..

Now I just need to see if I can get Verizon to activate a Nano-SIM on a Non-nano device or I might just have to get a nano sim cutter..

gopnick
Sep 16, 2013, 08:34 AM
As expected. People will have to wait for VoLTE.

Unfortunately, that isn't likely to happen anytime soon.

I spoke with a VZW engineer who designed the network for an entire region. She said that VoLTE isn't coming any time soon due to quality issues.

mrussell
Sep 17, 2013, 02:17 AM
I think I was confusing myself yesterday. I read that the ATT/Verizon/Tmobile iphones are the same model and assumed that this meant that that iphone 5s will not come unlocked for verizon. I neglected the fact that the Sprint and Verizon iPhone 5 are the same model and the sprint one is not unlocked and verizon is. My mistake.

So nothing should change. Verizon iPhone 5s/5c models should still be unlocked and these should work on LTE now on AT&T and Tmobile as well.

Is there away of knowing if the Verizon iPhone 5s will in fact be able to go on AT&T and T-Mobile if unlocked? And if the phone is unlocked, would that mean all you would have to do is walk into any Verizon store or Best Buy, buy the phone out-right, pop in an ATT sim and all is well with LTE?

That would, in a sense, mean the Verizon iPhone 5s would be the most versatile phone.

chrmjenkins
Sep 17, 2013, 06:16 PM
Is there away of knowing if the Verizon iPhone 5s will in fact be able to go on AT&T and T-Mobile if unlocked? And if the phone is unlocked, would that mean all you would have to do is walk into any Verizon store or Best Buy, buy the phone out-right, pop in an ATT sim and all is well with LTE?

That would, in a sense, mean the Verizon iPhone 5s would be the most versatile phone.

It still has to be unlocked, but yes. That's not always as trivial as it seems.

Sodner
Sep 17, 2013, 06:19 PM
This should help in getting the color / size we want. No need to state which carrier; Verizon OR AT&T we want.

bradl
Sep 17, 2013, 06:20 PM
Is there away of knowing if the Verizon iPhone 5s will in fact be able to go on AT&T and T-Mobile if unlocked? And if the phone is unlocked, would that mean all you would have to do is walk into any Verizon store or Best Buy, buy the phone out-right, pop in an ATT sim and all is well with LTE?

That would, in a sense, mean the Verizon iPhone 5s would be the most versatile phone.

It still has to be unlocked, but yes. That's not always as trivial as it seems.

But since the VZW, ATT, and T-Mobile phones will allegedly all be the same model, that should make that model the most versatile.

BL.

Jumpie
Sep 17, 2013, 08:32 PM
It still has to be unlocked, but yes. That's not always as trivial as it seems.

If you buy the Verizon "version" it will be unlocked, period. It has to based on FCC requirements to operate on their LTE network. So, go to a VZW store and get one and pay full price. Unlocked....bingo!

saud0488
Sep 17, 2013, 11:47 PM
But since the VZW, ATT, and T-Mobile phones will allegedly all be the same model, that should make that model the most versatile.

BL.

Well yes and no. They're all the same model but each carrier has different versions. For instance, the iPhone 5 is model A1429 for both Verizon and Sprint. However, the sprint version isn't unlocked and can only be unlocked by Sprint for international use. The Verizon model on the other hand is unlocked and ready to use with whatever GSM network you wish, domestic or international.

Hope this helps.

svenn
Sep 18, 2013, 05:20 AM
I just went and looked up the SAR reports at the FCC. Not only did they not list CDMA and LTE (SVLTE) as a test combination, they actually wrote a letter about it (E2642A is the CDMA version):

432773

[...]
Where did you find this info?

kdarling
Sep 18, 2013, 08:47 AM
Where did you find this info?

Go to the FCC Authorization Search page at:

https://apps.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports/GenericSearch.cfm

Enter the Grantee Code : BCG (that's Apple), and a search date range:

433846

You'll get a result list, then click "Next 10" to find the iPhones...

433847

Click on "Detail" and you'll get a list of documents. In this case, including the SVLTE letter and my favorite, the SAR report which lists the frequencies and sometimes the antenna locations.

433848

svenn
Sep 18, 2013, 01:56 PM
Go to the FCC Authorization Search page at:

https://apps.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports/GenericSearch.cfm

Enter the Grantee Code : BCG (that's Apple), and a search date range:

433846

You'll get a result list, then click "Next 10" to find the iPhones...

433847

Click on "Detail" and you'll get a list of documents. In this case, including the SVLTE letter and my favorite, the SAR report which lists the frequencies and sometimes the antenna locations.

433848
Thank you, that was incredibly helpful!!

bradl
Sep 18, 2013, 02:05 PM
Well yes and no. They're all the same model but each carrier has different versions. For instance, the iPhone 5 is model A1429 for both Verizon and Sprint. However, the sprint version isn't unlocked and can only be unlocked by Sprint for international use. The Verizon model on the other hand is unlocked and ready to use with whatever GSM network you wish, domestic or international.

Hope this helps.

That's our point. In the US for the 5c, model A1532 will work for T-Mobile, VZW, and ATT. For the 5s, model A1533 will work for T-Mobile, ATT, and VZW.

Only Sprint will have a separate model. So getting the VZW model for unlocking won't make a difference, because ATT, T-Mobile, and VZW will be using the same model of phone for the 5c and 5s respectively. Sprint is the red-headed stepchild in this game, as it will have its own model (A1456 for the 5c, A1453 for the 5s).

So A1532 and A1533 will be the most versatile model to get.

BL.

kdarling
Sep 18, 2013, 04:06 PM
Thank you, that was incredibly helpful!!

You're very welcome.

The more people who know how to search for new Apple products hitting the FCC, and/or their details, the better for everyone :)

HouseOfCards
Sep 19, 2013, 07:26 AM
Just to clarify, some iPhone models, even though they share the same model number, are sold in separate GSM and CDMA versions. The A1532 (iPhone 5c) and A1533 (iPhone 5s), like the A1429 (iPhone 5) of last year, each come in a GSM and CDMA version. Even though they are the exact same hardware, the CDMA capabilities of the GSM version are disabled in firmware. In fact, the GSM and CDMA versions ship with a different set of IMEIs, and the GSM versions are not assigned MEIDs. This has been Apple's approach since the iPhone 4S. So, unfortunately, even a factory unlock will not bring CDMA capability to an AT&T/T-Mobile iPhone. The Verizon version, on the other hand, should allow you full access to Voice/3G/LTE on all of these networks.

So, specifically, the Verizon versions of the A1532 and A1533 would be the most versatile since they could be used on AT&T, T-Mobile, Verizon or other compatible networks.

RKO52
Sep 19, 2013, 09:55 AM
So, specifically, the Verizon versions of the A1532 and A1533 would be the most versatile since they could be used on AT&T, T-Mobile, Verizon or other compatible networks.

The Sprint version (http://www.apple.com/iphone/LTE/) (A1456 & A1453) has all the bands of the Verizon/AT&T one (with a couple extra)...and is the only one that comes unlocked, according to Apple. This document (http://store.apple.com/us/iphone/family/iphone4/about-unlocked) talks all about it, and mentions that the Sprint phone will indeed work with a Verizon or AT&T nano sim.

Relevant excerpts:

"The unlocked iPhone 5c model is A1456. The unlocked iPhone 5s model is A1453."

"You can activate and use the unlocked iPhone on the supported GSM wireless network of your choice, such as AT&T or T-Mobile in the United States. The unlocked iPhone 5c and unlocked iPhone 5s will also work on the CDMA networks of Sprint and Verizon Wireless."

HouseOfCards
Sep 19, 2013, 12:11 PM
The Sprint version (http://www.apple.com/iphone/LTE/) (A1456 & A1453) has all the bands of the Verizon/AT&T one (with a couple extra)...and is the only one that comes unlocked, according to Apple. This document (http://store.apple.com/us/iphone/family/iphone4/about-unlocked) talks all about it, and mentions that the Sprint phone will indeed work with a Verizon or AT&T nano sim.

That's a very interesting link. If this is indeed the case, it's a bit of a departure for Apple. It would make sense for Apple to sell the unlocked iPhone as CDMA-capable since most CDMA networks are becoming CDMA/LTE hybrids, and therefore the CDMA provisioning is done from the SIM. In this case, you would be correct that the A1456 and A1453 would be the most versatile models since they include the two additional bands on which Sprint plans to deploy LTE. But it's highly improbable that the Sprint SKUs of these models would come unlocked. It would likely only be the ones sold specifically as unlocked and at full retail price.

Nonetheless, the article (http://store.apple.com/us/iphone/about-unlocked) currently linked on the US Apple Store directly contradicts the other article. It states:

"The unlocked iPhone 5c model is A1532 (GSM). The unlocked iPhone 5s model is A1533 (GSM). The unlocked iPhone will not work with CDMA-based carriers, including Sprint and Verizon Wireless."

sierrajinx9
Mar 13, 2014, 02:08 PM
Hope this helps... The MOST current information on the iphone 5s

The VERIZON IPHONE 5S... Has all the necessary bands to work on 3G and 4G LTE ALL Carriers listed EXCEPT SPRINT

The AT&T and TMOBILE IPHONE 5s will work fully on ALL Carriers except Verizon (only 4G LTE Will work, no Voice) and Not at all with SPRINT

the SPRINT IPHONE 5S is compatible with itself and all Canadian Carriers but with MANY Restrictions...

Sprints new network is Partially compatible with other carriers but REFUSES To open its network