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phr0ze
Sep 18, 2013, 08:14 AM
No warning it just won't work and no longer shows up in disk utility. My warranty ran out in July.

Best recommendation? Fix it myself or???



Macman45
Sep 18, 2013, 08:18 AM
No warning it just won't work and no longer shows up in disk utility. My warranty ran out in July.

Best recommendation? Fix it myself or???

Apple have been known to fix things like this if they are only just out of the warranty period...It won't hurt to let them take a look.

clyde2801
Sep 18, 2013, 08:20 AM
No warning it just won't work and no longer shows up in disk utility. My warranty ran out in July.

Best recommendation? Fix it myself or???

BUT....everyone is saying you don't really exist!

Seriously, I'd take it into an Apple store Genius Bar to see what their repair options are, and let them document that this is a problem.

You could twiddle your thumbs and see if Apple eventually lengthens the warranty repairs like they did the Nvidia cards from a few years back.

Or you can do searches on ebay and amazon for 2012 apple MacBook Air ssd's.

phr0ze
Sep 18, 2013, 08:28 AM
BUT....everyone is saying you don't really exist!

Seriously, I'd take it into an Apple store Genius Bar to see what their repair options are, and let them document that this is a problem.

You could twiddle your thumbs and see if Apple eventually lengthens the warranty repairs like they did the Nvidia cards from a few years back.

Or you can do searches on ebay and amazon for 2012 apple MacBook Air ssd's.

Thanks. I made an appointment. I'll try begging.

Ebay SSDs cost more than OWC. And amazon has a limited selection. If apple won't do it, I'll probably get the OWC for 189

clyde2801
Sep 18, 2013, 08:32 AM
Thanks. I made an appointment. I'll try begging.

Ebay SSDs cost more than OWC. And amazon has a limited selection. If apple won't do it, I'll probably get the OWC for 189

Even though I've got a (base) 2013, I'm still keeping abreast of this. My understanding is that it's SSD is completely ahead of the curve technology wise and proprietary. Heaven help us buying a replacement if ours fails out of the warranty period without extended Applecare, and that costs 1/4 of what the machine itself sold for....

Weaselboy
Sep 18, 2013, 11:25 AM
No warning it just won't work and no longer shows up in disk utility. My warranty ran out in July.

Best recommendation? Fix it myself or???

Just curious... is yours the 128GB SSD version? There seems to be a huge influx of these croaking here all of a sudden. :eek:

I suspect we will be seeing an Apple replacement program if these continue.

magbarn
Sep 18, 2013, 12:31 PM
Even though I've got a (base) 2013, I'm still keeping abreast of this. My understanding is that it's SSD is completely ahead of the curve technology wise and proprietary. Heaven help us buying a replacement if ours fails out of the warranty period without extended Applecare, and that costs 1/4 of what the machine itself sold for....

Luckily for us 2013 users is so far I've only seen Sandisk & Samsung making the SSDs. Marvell and Samsung make much more reliable controllers than Sandforce which is found in the decrepit 2012 Toshiba SSD.

powerslave12r
Sep 18, 2013, 12:42 PM
Another request to share you SSD manufacturer if you had the chance to find it out before it died (or if you can find out during repairs).

Thanks a lot! And sorry about the loss.

clyde2801
Sep 18, 2013, 01:41 PM
Luckily for us 2013 users is so far I've only seen Sandisk & Samsung making the SSDs. Marvell and Samsung make much more reliable controllers than Sandforce which is found in the decrepit 2012 Toshiba SSD.

Mine is a sandisk. I'm quite relieved to hear that, thanks!

Does anyone else besides Apple use the toshiba ssd's? If so, how are they standing up on the other systems?

phr0ze
Sep 18, 2013, 01:47 PM
Another request to share you SSD manufacturer if you had the chance to find it out before it died (or if you can find out during repairs).

Thanks a lot! And sorry about the loss.

I don't know the SSD yet. The disk utility I saw a drive called sandforce with 32KB of total storage..

Weaselboy
Sep 18, 2013, 02:02 PM
I don't know the SSD yet. The disk utility I saw a drive called sandforce with 32KB of total storage..

The Toshiba 128GB SSD uses a Sandforce controller and those have been the ones failing all of a sudden in the last month or so in the 2012 MBAs. Ouch. :(

powerslave12r
Sep 18, 2013, 02:37 PM
I don't know the SSD yet. The disk utility I saw a drive called sandforce with 32KB of total storage..

Thanks for the update. You may want to search around to see what people have been doing with these failures. A lot of people have had Toshiba drives fail around the 1 year mark as Weaselboy mentioned.

Sorry to hear about it. I will go home and back up mine just in case.

filmbuff
Sep 18, 2013, 04:06 PM
Also worth reminding anyone with this problem - if you bought the MBA with a major credit card there is a good chance that you have an extended warranty. I bought mine with an Amex, which gives an extra year on top of the original warranty. Apple will still charge me for the work, but I can be reimbursed by Amex. If you used a card, check out the company's policy!

magbarn
Sep 18, 2013, 04:09 PM
No warning it just won't work and no longer shows up in disk utility. My warranty ran out in July.

Best recommendation? Fix it myself or???

Just out of curiosity was your drive mostly full when it died?

HarryWarden
Sep 18, 2013, 04:34 PM
What I wonder is whether those with failed drives had FileVault turned on or not. A little google search reveals some that say that the FileVault encryption is especially hard on Toshiba because of their use of the Sandforce controller.

magbarn
Sep 18, 2013, 04:40 PM
What I wonder is whether those with failed drives had FileVault turned on or not. A little google search reveals some that say that the FileVault encryption is especially hard on Toshiba because of their use of the Sandforce controller.

Yup not to mention performance falls off. Sandforce does not like compressed/encrypted files at all. Makes me really question Apple's decision to use this controller when Samsung/Marvell have no problems dealing with filevault.

Mr. Retrofire
Sep 18, 2013, 04:41 PM
What I wonder is whether those with failed drives had FileVault turned on or not. A little google search reveals some that say that the FileVault encryption is especially hard on Toshiba because of their use of the Sandforce controller.
The SSD sees the encrypted data as “already compressed” data, like a very large, compressed video file. I doubt that this is the problem.

phr0ze
Sep 18, 2013, 09:13 PM
Just out of curiosity was your drive mostly full when it died?

I'm not sure since its technically the laptop my wife uses.

----------

What I wonder is whether those with failed drives had FileVault turned on or not. A little google search reveals some that say that the FileVault encryption is especially hard on Toshiba because of their use of the Sandforce controller.

No encryption was enabled on the drive. Mostly just web surfing.

----------

So cost from Apple was $280, no matter the failed part. I got them to waive the charge because it was just sent out for service in June.

powerslave12r
Sep 18, 2013, 09:44 PM
I'm not sure since its technically the laptop my wife uses.

----------



No encryption was enabled on the drive. Mostly just web surfing.

----------

So cost from Apple was $280, no matter the failed part. I got them to waive the charge because it was just sent out for service in June.

Good going!

peterson12
Sep 19, 2013, 07:14 AM
I am sure this is not sandforce controller fault. I think the issue is how the controller is getting implemented by Toshiba / how apple is integrating the Toshiba SSD. The same controller is being used with other majors & they are non-faulty. The wrong perception about these sandforce controllers are rapidly changing & this is a quite encouraging as a sandforce fan ;)

phr0ze
Sep 19, 2013, 08:05 AM
He also said I should be able to get apple care if I push. He said if I do have apple care and another major component fails that I would get a new model macbook off the shelf. (This current failure appears to be the second major failure for the macbook)

HarryWarden
Sep 19, 2013, 08:37 AM
He also said I should be able to get apple care if I push. He said if I do have apple care and another major component fails that I would get a new model macbook off the shelf. (This current failure appears to be the second major failure for the macbook)

Assuming you do get AppleCare, I bet part of you then hopes another part fails. Getting a new machine would always be nice. What was the other part that failed previously? I wonder if they give you a new machine if a part fails twice like say the SSD they replaced it with fails as well?

phr0ze
Sep 19, 2013, 09:05 AM
Assuming you do get AppleCare, I bet part of you then hopes another part fails. Getting a new machine would always be nice. What was the other part that failed previously? I wonder if they give you a new machine if a part fails twice like say the SSD they replaced it with fails as well?

He couldn't tell me what bit they replaced previously but it was either the SSD or the logic board. Also it has gone back for a trackpad repair but he said that doesn't count as major. It takes 3 'major' failures was his words.

Weaselboy
Sep 19, 2013, 09:17 AM
I am sure this is not sandforce controller fault. I think the issue is how the controller is getting implemented by Toshiba / how apple is integrating the Toshiba SSD. The same controller is being used with other majors & they are non-faulty. The wrong perception about these sandforce controllers are rapidly changing & this is a quite encouraging as a sandforce fan ;)

This is funny because you just posted your Sandforce defense in another thread (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1637874) where a user reported FOUR Sandforce controlled OWC drives died in one year. Also in that thread (and others) many have reported the same multiple failures with OWC's Sandforce drives. Now we have the 12-14 month old Toshiba/Sandforce drives in 2012 MBAs starting to drop like flies.

So I guess your theory is that there is nothing wrong with Sandforce controllers and neither OWC nor Toshiba know how to properly assemble an SSD. :confused:

Not sure what your affinity for Sandforce is all about, but I don't follow your logic at all. The admittedly anecdotal evidence so far points to Sandforce drives having a lot of premature and sudden failures.

fedecape
Sep 19, 2013, 09:56 AM
My father's MBA has a TS128e media. Is it gonna fail?

Weaselboy
Sep 19, 2013, 10:51 AM
My father's MBA has a TS128e media. Is it gonna fail?

That is the same Toshiba 128GB model we are discussing in this and other threads. There do seem to be a lot of these failing all of a sudden.

I would for sure make sure dad's MBA is backed up regularly in case this bites him.

Mac.User
Sep 19, 2013, 10:41 PM
This is funny because you just posted your Sandforce defense in another thread (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1637874) where a user reported FOUR Sandforce controlled OWC drives died in one year. Also in that thread (and others) many have reported the same multiple failures with OWC's Sandforce drives. Now we have the 12-14 month old Toshiba/Sandforce drives in 2012 MBAs starting to drop like flies.

So I guess your theory is that there is nothing wrong with Sandforce controllers and neither OWC nor Toshiba know how to properly assemble an SSD. :confused:

Not sure what your affinity for Sandforce is all about, but I don't follow your logic at all. The admittedly anecdotal evidence so far points to Sandforce drives having a lot of premature and sudden failures.

If you notice it's only Sandforce Blade SSD's that are failing. That same controller is used in many, many more 2.5in SSD's with no problem.

His thought that it may be how the controller is implemented on the blade drives may be correct. If that controller is used I other applications with no problem that points more to the board designers than the controller designer.

Intell
Sep 19, 2013, 10:50 PM
If you notice it's only Sandforce Blade SSD's that are failing. That same controller is used in many, many more 2.5in SSD's with no problem.

His thought that it may be how the controller is implemented on the blade drives may be correct. If that controller is used I other applications with no problem that points more to the board designers than the controller designer.

I've had a few Sandforce 2.5" drives die on me. One is out for warranty servicing at this time. Three OCZ, one OWC, and one Intell.

magbarn
Sep 20, 2013, 01:22 AM
I've had a few Sandforce 2.5" drives die on me. One is out for warranty servicing at this time. Three OCZ, one OWC, and one Intell.

Yup, I've owned multiple SSDs since the Intel G1 SSD drives and have had experience with Marvell, Toshiba, Intel, Indilinx, Samsung, and Sandforce controllers. Of the several SSDs that have crashed on me all had Sandforce controllers in them.

calvol
Sep 20, 2013, 03:46 AM
I've had a few Sandforce 2.5" drives die on me. One is out for warranty servicing at this time. Three OCZ, one OWC, and one Intell.

I had a OCZ Vertex II 128GB that crashed on me in a Dell laptop, but I did the firmware update, and it's been running ok now for about 6 months.

Mac.User
Sep 20, 2013, 08:44 AM
Yup, I've owned multiple SSDs since the Intel G1 SSD drives and have had experience with Marvell, Toshiba, Intel, Indilinx, Samsung, and Sandforce controllers. Of the several SSDs that have crashed on me all had Sandforce controllers in them.

I know that a while ago they had released a Firmware update to fix some issues. Is it possible that those updates were never applied? I have a few machines @ work with sandforce controllers and non have died. They are all the 2.5in form factor. I'm not sure they are all using the same controller version that people are having issue with though.

Weaselboy
Sep 20, 2013, 09:25 AM
If you notice it's only Sandforce Blade SSD's that are failing. That same controller is used in many, many more 2.5in SSD's with no problem.

His thought that it may be how the controller is implemented on the blade drives may be correct. If that controller is used I other applications with no problem that points more to the board designers than the controller designer.

I don't think it is just the blade models. If you regularly read the forums, there seem to be frequent reports in here of Sandforce drives (both blade and 2.5") repeatedly dying. The bulk of those failures do seem to be OWC, but I suppose that could be because they sell more Sandforce drives than other companies.

I do find it interesting that many of the companies that were using Sandforce have started to move away from them. OCZ bought Indilinx and now uses their controllers. I think another SSD brand switched to Marvell, but the name escapes me.

Mac.User
Sep 20, 2013, 12:33 PM
I don't think it is just the blade models. If you regularly read the forums, there seem to be frequent reports in here of Sandforce drives (both blade and 2.5") repeatedly dying. The bulk of those failures do seem to be OWC, but I suppose that could be because they sell more Sandforce drives than other companies.

I do find it interesting that many of the companies that were using Sandforce have started to move away from them. OCZ bought Indilinx and now uses their controllers. I think another SSD brand switched to Marvell, but the name escapes me.

I know that when OCZ moved their reason was for performance. OCZ also before that had that highest failure rating out of any other SSD maker. Even compared to other sandforce makers that use SandForce.

Weaselboy
Sep 20, 2013, 02:24 PM
I know that when OCZ moved their reason was for performance. OCZ also before that had that highest failure rating out of any other SSD maker. Even compared to other sandforce makers that use SandForce.

I do recall seeing that. This will be interesting to watch.

rkuo
Sep 20, 2013, 02:33 PM
My mother's Macbook Air 2012 died last week due to SSD dying. Luckily it was in warranty. Is there a systemic problem here?

Weaselboy
Sep 20, 2013, 03:02 PM
My mother's Macbook Air 2012 died last week due to SSD dying. Luckily it was in warranty. Is there a systemic problem here?

It would appear so. All of a sudden in the last couple weeks there are multiple reports here of the 2012 MBA 128GB Toshiba SSD just up and dying.

ha1o2surfer
Sep 24, 2013, 05:06 PM
I actually believe it's the heat that is killing the SSD's. The 2013's haven't been around long enough yet.. Before I returned my 2013 Macbook Air, the SSD would run around 60-70c which is really hot for an SSD. My SSD currently in my W110ER is running at 34c. Not saying it's the cause but... it's something to keep in mind.

Intell
Sep 24, 2013, 05:08 PM
I actually believe it's the heat that is killing the SSD's. The 2013's haven't been around long enough yet.. Before I returned my 2013 Macbook Air, the SSD would run around 60-70c which is really hot for an SSD. My SSD currently in my W110ER is running at 34c. Not saying it's the cause but... it's something to keep in mind.

Heat is not killing them. Those temperatures are within the manufacturers' tolerances for the chipset and SSD. My few Sandforce based SSDs that have died have all been kept in a nicely cooled area.

peterson12
Sep 25, 2013, 07:26 AM
I've had a few Sandforce 2.5" drives die on me. One is out for warranty servicing at this time. Three OCZ, one OWC, and one Intell.

I am a user of sandforce based SSDs from a long time now & just would like to share that the wrong perception which people had on sandforce based SSDs is fading out quite rapidly which is a feel good factor for sandforce fans! Having said this, any SSD needs regualar maintenance like firmware updates & proper power supplies. Check out the new Intel series of SSDs which are simply terrific!

magbarn
Sep 25, 2013, 07:44 AM
I am a user of sandforce based SSDs from a long time now & just would like to share that the wrong perception which people had on sandforce based SSDs is fading out quite rapidly which is a feel good factor for sandforce fans! Having said this, any SSD needs regualar maintenance like firmware updates & proper power supplies. Check out the new Intel series of SSDs which are simply terrific!

Huh, are you a sandforce worker/marketer? If so, please get Toshiba/sandforce/Apple to own up for these drives and figure out why so many are failing and make it right.

Weaselboy
Sep 25, 2013, 07:44 AM
I am a user of sandforce based SSDs from a long time now & just would like to share that the wrong perception which people had on sandforce based SSDs is fading out quite rapidly which is a feel good factor for sandforce fans! Having said this, any SSD needs regualar maintenance like firmware updates & proper power supplies. Check out the new Intel series of SSDs which are simply terrific!

Are we reading the same thread?

ha1o2surfer
Sep 25, 2013, 08:21 AM
Heat is not killing them. Those temperatures are within the manufacturers' tolerances for the chipset and SSD. My few Sandforce based SSDs that have died have all been kept in a nicely cooled area.

It's approaching temps that could be dangerous. I haven't also experienced any OCZ failures yet so I might be biased. I have an OCZ SSD with 25TB host writes and it's hasn't seen anywhere near the temp that Macbooks subject SSD's to.

Acorn
Sep 26, 2013, 02:18 PM
my 2012 macbook air toshiba 128gb ssd drive just died last night. it was just over a year old. it doesnt even show up anymore so i cant format or reinstall. it had a bunch of corruption problems beforehand.

L T
Sep 26, 2013, 04:02 PM
How do I check what brand my SSD is?

Bombay
Sep 28, 2013, 07:31 PM
Yeah, add me to the list too. There's clearly something wrong when there have been so many reports of dead toshiba ssd in the past month or so.

flowrider
Sep 29, 2013, 08:07 AM
How do I check what brand my SSD is?

Look Here:

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1628266&highlight=ssd&page=2

Lou

fenneberg
Sep 29, 2013, 12:57 PM
Could´nt someone MERGE all the different threads about Toshiba SSD failures on the mid2012 ?
(not me though as I´m a complete newbie on mac) :o

That could put this in perspective, as all with 2012´s (incl. me) rightly is/should be shaken.

flowrider
Sep 29, 2013, 05:46 PM
^^^^Someone tried to here:

http://forums.macrumors.com/search.php?searchid=36173423

But, well, some folks like to start their own threads (They're special, don't ya know) and what resulted is the hodgepodge of failed Toshiba SSD threads we now have.

Lou

powerslave12r
Sep 29, 2013, 06:13 PM
Reminds me of this xkcd (http://xkcd.com/927/).

fenneberg
Sep 29, 2013, 06:57 PM
Might I be so frank as to suggest maybe the moderator could make them stick together, or is that too bold. :confused:

flowrider
Sep 29, 2013, 07:00 PM
Might I be so frank as to suggest maybe the moderator could make them stick together, or is that too bold. :confused:

IMHO, that would be a massive undertaking. There are so many and many of the same people posted in different threads. If there were only two or three threads, but the number of these SSD failure threads is colossal, I certainly would not want to try and edit and combine so many threads!

Lou

gavinstubbs09
Sep 30, 2013, 09:40 AM
For me, my MBA isn't even 6 months old and it has a Toshitta (Toshiba) SSD which I despise. I've repaired many toshitta laptops from the Vista era with failed hard drives.

I sent it in to Apple and that took a week because the part was "on order." My read/write speeds were crap on the original SSD but the new one seems to be much faster.

flowrider
Sep 30, 2013, 09:46 AM
^^^^Glad you got it replaced! What brand of SSD is your new one?

This is a REAL problem Apple needs to address NOW rather than Later!!!!!!

Lou

gavinstubbs09
Sep 30, 2013, 09:52 AM
^^^^Glad you got it replaced! What brand of SSD is your new one?

This is a REAL problem Apple needs to address NOW rather than Later!!!!!!

Lou

Another Toshitta -_-

Just hope it doesn't fail. I'm sure it will at some point so if it does happen I have Time Machine backups in case all was bad. What I'll most likely do is in the future buy a 256GB one from OWC and just replace it once I'm out of warranty.

flowrider
Sep 30, 2013, 09:55 AM
^^^^WOW It amazes me, that with all these failures Apple is still using these crappy SSDs as replacements:eek: What can they be thinking:confused: I don't believe they are used anymore in the 2013 models.

Lou

henryonapple
Sep 30, 2013, 12:31 PM
^^^^WOW It amazes me, that with all these failures Apple is still using these crappy SSDs as replacements:eek: What can they be thinking:confused: I don't believe they are used anymore in the 2013 models.

Lou

who knows what they're thinking over there in cuppertino.

erkovich
Sep 30, 2013, 01:11 PM
Right now I'm running OS X from a Mybook studio HD. My SSD crashed 2 weeks ago, bought my Air in october 2012, so it didn't even make it through the first year. Craptastic.

I think there was a little more fan noise than usual the last few weeks, before the final freeze followed by the famous question mark folder.

Is there a way to find out what brand the SSD is, without opening the computer? Is it written on the box?

flowrider
Sep 30, 2013, 01:14 PM
^^^^Only way I know, is software related - and you can't do that anymore. No it's not identified on any documentation, packaging materials or by exploring the SN of the machine.

Lou

Weaselboy
Sep 30, 2013, 01:21 PM
Is there a way to find out what brand the SSD is, without opening the computer? Is it written on the box?

I believe all the 128GB models were Toshiba. If you look in System Report the flash drive model was shown as TS... something or other (I'm going from memory).

erkovich
Sep 30, 2013, 02:05 PM
I believe all the 128GB models were Toshiba. If you look in System Report the flash drive model was shown as TS... something or other (I'm going from memory).

Well, I can't find any info but yeah I have the 128GB.

flowrider
Sep 30, 2013, 02:09 PM
^^^^From an earlier post:

Yes! Look at System Information, under Storage - If the entry for APPLE SSD is followed by SM, then it's the Samsung, if it's followed by TS then it's the Toshiba, if it's followed by SD then it's a SanDisk.

Lou

Lou

Weaselboy
Sep 30, 2013, 02:27 PM
Well, I can't find any info but yeah I have the 128GB.

Click the Apple at the top left then About this Mac then More info then System Report. Now under the hardware section click on the storage entry and it should look something like this. This is from my 2013 MBA, so it may look a bit different. That SM in mine indicates Samsung and a TS would be Toshiba.

http://imgur.com/4mWWGHL.png

noneother
Oct 11, 2013, 02:55 PM
My 128GB 2012 MBA purchased in June 2012 just died on me today... SAME issue.. Can't see it in utility... $280 out the door to get it fixed... Definitely a trend.... I had freaking AppleCare on my iPhone 4S.. That was never used.. Didn't get it on the MBA... All the bad choices...

Not pleased... Of course I'm also that guy who doesn't back up.

tutaina
Oct 16, 2013, 06:46 PM
mine died 2 days ago @14 months. cannot afford to repair it

polee
Oct 17, 2013, 07:59 AM
Mine is SSD TS128C, and my model is a MBA 2010 which I bought in October 2011. So far it has not failed yet. Over two years now and I have applecare. Should I be mentally prepared for eventual failure?

Weaselboy
Oct 17, 2013, 09:18 AM
Mine is SSD TS128C, and my model is a MBA 2010 which I bought in October 2011. So far it has not failed yet. Over two years now and I have applecare. Should I be mentally prepared for eventual failure?

The early death seems to be happening more with the 2012 Air models. Of course you should backup anyway, but your model does not use the same flash storage device being discussed here.

polee
Oct 17, 2013, 11:10 AM
The early death seems to be happening more with the 2012 Air models. Of course you should backup anyway, but your model does not use the same flash storage device being discussed here.

Thank you. Good to know.

powerslave12r
Oct 17, 2013, 06:30 PM
In case anyone missed it

http://www.macrumors.com/2013/10/17/apple-releases-macbook-air-flash-storage-firmware-update-to-test-for-data-loss-issue/

fathedgehog
Oct 18, 2013, 09:15 AM
If it helps, this is on my MB Air mid-2012 with 128GB SSD made by Toshiba.

Before update:
APPLE SSD TS128E
Revision: TPVABBF0

After update:
Revision: TQAABBF0

I had the "scary nothing happened until I pressed power button", but it's fine.

Tried running the update a second time, and it says "This computer does not need this update"

Hope it helps.