Is it possible to run an Xbox 360 through an Apple 23 inch HD display? [Archive]

gangst

Nov 28, 2005, 04:24 PM

Hello,

Well I'm getting an Xbox 360 for Christmas (I think!), and I have a 17" HDTV, but I do not think it would be as enjoyable as playin Xbox in HD on my Cinema Display. Is there any way in linking the DVI port on the ACD to the port on the Xbox. I don't really have much idea here with what wires are needed I just think it would be great to be able to play Xbox 360 on a 23 inch screen and really get the most from it. Any suggestions in how to do this and what is needed.

Any help is greatly appreciated!

MacRumorUser

Nov 28, 2005, 04:46 PM

I'm not 100% confident about this, but I think there is a VGA to DVI convertor, which you would need to get the xbox connected.

I've seen two, one was VGA to DVI Digtal convertor for around $600 and the oher was VGA to DVI (analog) for $18 A huge price difference and I'm not sure either will work.

ChrisBrightwell

Nov 28, 2005, 08:39 PM

MadCatz is working on a DVI adapter for the Xbox360, which should be available in a few weeks. When that lands, you'll be able to use the Xbox360 w/ a 23" Apple Cinema Display.

Hope this helps.

TyleRomeo

Nov 28, 2005, 08:49 PM

MadCatz is working on a DVI adapter for the Xbox360, which should be available in a few weeks. When that lands, you'll be able to use the Xbox360 w/ a 23" Apple Cinema Display.

Hope this helps.

hey does that mean theres hope of running PS3 with a 23 cinema?

TheGimp

Nov 28, 2005, 08:57 PM

All you need in order to use the 23" Apple display with the 360 is the $39.99 vga-av cable supplied by microsoft but not typically stocked at most stores (ebgames will ship you one) and a dvi-i to vga adaptor, available at apple for less than 20 bucks. The adaptor is so cheap because dvi-i and vga are both analog signals, so no video conversion is necessary. An applecare representative told me that the apple displays support both dvi-i and the other dvi standard ("dvi-something" - the one used by video cards), unlike many dvi monitors which only accept the dvi digital signal. Apple displays support dvi-i in order to allow older ibooks (which only output vga) to use the displays.

Verto

Nov 28, 2005, 08:59 PM

Would this work with an iMac too?

ChrisBrightwell

Nov 28, 2005, 09:04 PM

Apple displays support dvi-i in order to allow older ibooks (which only output vga) to use the displays.I'm pretty sure this is incorrect. It's been noted several times that the DVI connection on current Apple displays is only a digital connection, disallowing an analog input.

ChrisBrightwell

Nov 28, 2005, 09:04 PM

hey does that mean theres hope of running PS3 with a 23 cinema?There's always hope. :)

ChrisBrightwell

Nov 28, 2005, 09:05 PM

Would this work with an iMac too?
Doubtful. iMac lacks video input.

Josh396

Nov 28, 2005, 09:31 PM

Doubtful. iMac lacks video input.
Well that just sucks. Looks like I'll have to go get a nice HDTV now.:rolleyes:

Phat_Pat

Nov 28, 2005, 09:38 PM

ChrisBrightwell

Nov 28, 2005, 09:58 PM

do you have a link for this?Looking for it. Will post it when I re-find it.

Phat_Pat

Nov 28, 2005, 10:00 PM

Looking for it. Will post it when I re-find it.
thank you... cause that will make my day... (well not day but it'll make me happy.... yeahhhhh)

ellixan

Nov 28, 2005, 11:25 PM

There's always hope. :)

Attached: PS3 I/O, according to the Sony E3 Press Conference.
Not sure what AV Multi output is (do they mean the usual red, white, and yellow?), but it looks like you'll need a DVI - HDMI converter. The monster cable version runs about $50 at Comp USA.

TheGimp

Nov 29, 2005, 12:03 PM

I'm pretty sure this is incorrect. It's been noted several times that the DVI connection on current Apple displays is only a digital connection, disallowing an analog input.

I really hope you're wrong. The Applecare guy told me what I wrote above after checking the serial number on my aluminum 23" display. If he was incorrect, then my opinion of Applecare will drop down another notch, after having already dropped after my previous interaction with them.

One thing however:
One of the techies at the Applestore told me that the aluminum displays can be used with the older ibooks. If that is correct, then chances are they do support the analog dvi-i.

TheGimp

Nov 29, 2005, 12:06 PM

Attached: PS3 I/O, according to the Sony E3 Press Conference.
Not sure what AV Multi output is (do they mean the usual red, white, and yellow?), but it looks like you'll need a DVI - HDMI converter. The monster cable version runs about $50 at Comp USA.

Does this mean the aluminum Apple Displays will work with the ps3, even though the Apple displays are not hdmi compliant? I mean, of course one can use a dvi-->hdmi adaptor (as does my girlfriend to go from a dvi cable box to her hdmi Sony TV), but I've read that going the opposite direction is problematic due to the copy protection scrambling inherent in the hdmi signal.

Anyone?

benpatient

Nov 29, 2005, 02:19 PM

if the PS3 is actively enforcing the HDCP part of HDMI, then no, it won't work, because the current ACDs whether they take an analog signal or not (which i doubt, by the way), do NOT have the HDCP "handshake" hardware necessary to be the recipient of an HDCP-encrypted digital video signal.

Of course, this is true of more than 99% of the monitors that have been released in 2005, and probably way more than the majority of 2006 monitors as well, so good luck on that. I have an 8th generation Panasonic 50" plasma that doesn't have HDMI (by choice) but does have VGA. the optional HDMI add-on board costs as much as a PS3 probably will, and I'm very happy with 720p over VGA or component, so I'll have to pass on the PS3 if it doesn't support either HD over component analog or VGA analog.

DaftUnion

Nov 29, 2005, 02:25 PM

Doubtful. iMac lacks video input.

Actually just a straight no. Unless you want to take out a soldered connection to the monitor.

ChrisBrightwell

Nov 29, 2005, 03:03 PM

Actually just a straight no. Unless you want to take out a soldered connection to the monitor.Well there are ways to get video into the iMac (such as a TV tuner or analog video capture device), but none of them are really optimal.

cartoonfox

Nov 29, 2005, 07:13 PM

Hi, sorry to be off topic (xbox 360) but i was wondering if there is anyway to play gamecube (normal composite cable) on my iMac G5?

i know there is the EyeTV EZ but i heard it has slight lag, which is no good for playing video games really.(if anyone has this and uses this for playing video games on Mac please let me know)

i dont want to have to buy an iMac display (my TV is too old and large to fit in my new room (moved for uni)), im a poor student : ]

thanks for any help.

pdpfilms

Nov 29, 2005, 07:18 PM

Hi, sorry to be off topic (xbox 360) but i was wondering if there is anyway to play gamecube (normal composite cable) on my iMac G5?

i know there is the EyeTV EZ but i heard it has slight lag, which is no good for playing video games really.(if anyone has this and uses this for playing video games on Mac please let me know)

This is the only way that works, as there is no video input on the iMac, as stated a few posts up.

gangst

Nov 29, 2005, 07:41 PM

Is the video signal given out from the Xbox 360 analog or digital then?

cartoonfox

Nov 29, 2005, 07:43 PM

ah i see, ok.

well, if i were to get a cinema display, would i be able to play gamecube on it? in other words composite cabl or scart?

sorry, i dont really know much about this stuff.

gangst

Nov 29, 2005, 07:49 PM

ah i see, ok.

well, if i were to get a cinema display, would i be able to play gamecube on it? in other words composite cabl or scart?

sorry, i dont really know much about this stuff.

oh come on! I know you probably really want to find out if it is possible to do that, but this thread is based around running an xbox 360 on an ACD not a gamecube. If you really want to know start a new thread!

cartoonfox

Nov 29, 2005, 08:02 PM

oh come on! I know you probably really want to find out if it is possible to do that, but this thread is based around running an xbox 360 on an ACD not a gamecube. If you really want to know start a new thread!
sorry dude, im new here didnt want to start a new thread on something that is probably allready mentioned somewhere.
i'll go search now.

peace

GFLPraxis

Nov 29, 2005, 09:30 PM

Don't be rude. He has a valid question, while we're on the topic of hooking consoles to ACDs.

Phat_Pat

Nov 30, 2005, 12:46 AM

wait so whats up with the mad catz connector?

pionata

Nov 30, 2005, 12:49 PM

Well I posted this a while ago, and no one replied.

If you want a solution now to plug your 360 in dvi, thats probably it.

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=163957

Laslo Panaflex

Nov 30, 2005, 01:04 PM

From my understanding, ACDs don't have any built in scaler. What does that mean? It means that the display has no way to take in a signal and process it's resolution and display it on screen. Since it is a computer monitor, it requires computer, or in this case a Xbox360 with a video card that does all the video processing then sends it to the ACD which then displays it.

So, in theory assuming the 360 does all the video processing then sends it out of the video card, like a computer would, you should be fine with the ADC. If you want to use the ACD with some sort of satelite or cable set top box, you will need to get an external scaler, or scaler and line doubler to process the image for the ACD.

gangst

Nov 30, 2005, 02:34 PM

sorry dude, im new here didnt want to start a new thread on something that is probably allready mentioned somewhere.
i'll go search now.

peace

sorry man, my bad. don't want to put newbies off. you will probably find the answers to your question in this thread!

clayj

Nov 30, 2005, 03:18 PM

Well I posted this a while ago, and no one replied.

If you want a solution now to plug your 360 in dvi, thats probably it.

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=163957I think the problem with this solution is that the Mad Catz converter outputs a DVI-I signal (mixed analog and digital), while the ACD expects a DVI-D signal (pure digital signal). (Correct me if I'm wrong.)

I guess we won't really know if this will work with an ACD until someone tries it...

pionata

Nov 30, 2005, 03:40 PM

I think the problem with this solution is that the Mad Catz converter outputs a DVI-I signal (mixed analog and digital), while the ACD expects a DVI-D signal (pure digital signal). (Correct me if I'm wrong.)

I guess we won't really know if this will work with an ACD until someone tries it...

Yeah, we definitively need someone to try it out.

About the scaler, the xbox supposedly has a built in scaler. And I was playing halflife in 1900x1080 (16:9) the other day, the cinema display adjusted (or the videocard) normaly with black lines on top and bottom. Also, if you send a 1024x768 or any usual crt resolution to the cinema display either from a pc or a mac, it tries to stretch it across the screen, but leaves black on the sides to preserve the image ration. I dont see why a ps3 or xbox would be any different.

Edit: If I may conclude, siince the Apple cinema display doesnt stretch 10:9 but stretches some other resolutions, could it be that it is in fact made to be able to receive a 10:9 input and leave the black lines at the bottom and top, or is it the video card that detect the monitor capabilities and decide it would look better not to stretch 10:9 (in either case, the signal the ACD is receiving is 1920x1080, not 1920x1200 with black lines around)?

ritzuk

Dec 1, 2005, 11:43 AM

Dudes!

I've posted before in the Apple forums to no avail. I tried using my Gamecube on my Apple Alu 20" Cinema display - no joy. I had a VGA convertor with a VGA to DVI dongle / convertor but it didn't do anything.

From what I've read, the Alu display does NOT accept a VGA input.

Has anyone got a VGA input working on it?

I was going to sell this and buy an iMac G5 - but not if it works with the 360!

Cheers!

ritzuk

Dec 1, 2005, 02:36 PM

Righto,

The Apple Cinema Display mid 2004 (aluminium enclosure) does NOT accept a VGA input. It will NOT work with the Xbox 360.

The solution?

eBay you Apple display and buy the DELL version (the electronics inside are the same anyway!) for less money.

Or buy a HD display.

I'm really disappointed after buying this display - it seems ridiculous that it's the same as the DELL version, with less inside, for more money!

clayj

Dec 1, 2005, 02:53 PM

ritzuk

Dec 1, 2005, 06:16 PM

Let's face facts here: Apple often build their equipment so that it is proprietary as hell. As far as ACDs go, their #1 (and ONLY) objective is for them to work with Apple computers, which ALL have DVI-D outputs (I'm referring mainly to PowerBooks and PowerMacs, not iMacs or anything like that). Apple probably don't want (or aren't keen on) people buying ACDs to use with Dells, Sonys, or any other non-Apple machines.

Why? Because they're concerned with elegance above all else... form over function, ALWAYS. (Now, if you can get function in without compromising form, that's OK.) For Apple to add VGA, component, or other useful types of inputs to ACDs would severely compromise the elegance of them... so it ain't gonna happen. Steve Jobs wants ONE connector running into the display, to carry power and signal. Extra connectors would ugly up the ACD, as far as he's concerned... and what he wants is what he gets.

Those of you who are gamers really should look into getting a display that is NOT made by Apple... a Dell or a Sony or a Samsung. Something with multiple inputs.

Note that this is not in any way negative commentary on Apple... they're to be commended for their pursuit of excellence. But sometimes that pursuit causes them to be inflexible to the point of causing problems when you want to do something Different.

I had to wade through a lot of **** there.

Firstly, adding the capability for VGA input through the DVI connector is possible - some other displays carry this function.

Secondly, form over function is absolutely, positively, bollocks. Simply that. If Apple had to hide behind art, they'd be bankrupt.

Quite the oppostie, Apple makes function readily accessible by combining it WITH form; see Frontrow.

Steve Jobs probably had little to do with the design of the display - you can't presume to know his intentions.

Us 'gamers' should expect a VGA signal to work with the highly priced Apple display - otherwise it's rendered obsolete by the Dell version, which by reviews, is better, with more inputs, and cheaper. Looks nice too.

Also, Apple's design philosophy does not make their products retarded.

Apologies from having a go at your post.

DISCOMUNICATION

Dec 1, 2005, 11:14 PM

Okay lets settle this once and for all. Would the person who owns an aluminium ADC please disconnect the cable from the back of your G5 or PowerBook and compare the connector with this chart please.

DISCOMUNICATION

Dec 1, 2005, 11:53 PM

The 4 pins around the flat blade on the left carry the analog signal. If the ADC is missing these then this thread is dead. Hey that rhymed :p .

Even if it did you would still have scaling issues. Your only hope now would be a digital output like this:
http://www.play-asia.com/paOS-13-71-bq-47-fly-70-11qr.html
The customer reviews here:
http://www.lik-sang.com/info.php?category=76&products_id=777&
And here:
http://www.play-asia.com/paOS-13-71-24-70-ll.html
seem to have different ideas about how to work around the obscure D-Terminal connector. Wonder if they even know what they're talking about?

I don't even know what I'm talking about. Is D-Terminal even used out side of Japan? Wait a minute is D-terminal the Japanese equivelance of scart? So it's not even digital? It's like those old VGA cables that had the 5 BNC component connectors on the other end right? So why does Nintendo even call that port digital if all it outputs is analog?

ritzuk

Dec 2, 2005, 04:49 AM

The ADC is missing the little connectors next to the flat thing: it only accepts a digital input.

Does the 360 put out a digital signal?

No.

Time to sell one Apple Cinema Display!

dejo

Dec 2, 2005, 04:54 AM

The ADC is missing the little connectors next to the flat thing: it only accepts a digital input.

Does the 360 put out a digital signal?

No.

Time to sell one Apple Cinema Display!

Or maybe sell the 360 and get a PS3 when it comes out, which WILL put out a digital signal! ;)

ritzuk

Dec 2, 2005, 06:20 AM

Or maybe sell the 360 and get a PS3 when it comes out, which WILL put out a digital signal! ;)

Ack nein!

I wanted a Revolution, but that isn't going to be HD! I can hear 'oh, not having a DVD player won't effect sales - it's just a games machine' all over again.

I'm not impressed with any of Sony's hardware, including the PSP. I actually really liked the original xbox, and the 360 is pretty hot. Live! is awesome.

I could of course, just upgrade my whole system to a 20" imac G5, and worry about a bigger TV later...

Edit: Apparently Microsoft are going to change the output on the mother board to digital later this year!

Edit: Sorry, later next year.

benpatient

Dec 2, 2005, 10:09 AM

Or maybe sell the 360 and get a PS3 when it comes out, which WILL put out a digital signal!

ooooor....NOT.

Do you see an HDCP-compliant HDCP connection on the ACD? I sure don't. That's what the PS3 is going to be looking for. At least with the 360 you have the (expensive) option of getting some sort of analog-to-digital converter box that can send a DVi signal after converting from component/s-vid/composite/vga/whatever...

If a source requires HDCP, which apparently the PS3 will for hi-def, then there is no way around it short of a VERY expensive broadcast-level converter that is HDCP compliant and also has HD analog output. We're talking 5-6 digit prices.

Anyway, to the guy who said that Apple wouldn't offer a monitor with VGA support because they only want one connector, I have to ask you...do you realize that the MORE common situation is that a SINGLE DVI input on a monitor acccepts both VGA analog (though DVI) and DVI digital signals?

The ONLY reason apple chose not to include this capability is because there is another small conversion chip/board required to convert an analog (VGA over DVI) signal into something the screen can more easily display (digital).

As someone has pointed out, the exact same "screen" in a less-attractive Dell casing comes with a DVI port that can "see" VGA signals sent over DVI. So do nearly all Samsung and Viewsonic LCDs with DVI inputs.

The killer thing with the Dell is that the screen is the same quality, exactly, because it's the same electronics, but the price is (much) lower, and it comes with the very useful ability to display analog signals...

twoodcc

Dec 2, 2005, 10:42 AM

ooooor....NOT.

Do you see an HDCP-compliant HDCP connection on the ACD? I sure don't. That's what the PS3 is going to be looking for. At least with the 360 you have the (expensive) option of getting some sort of analog-to-digital converter box that can send a DVi signal after converting from component/s-vid/composite/vga/whatever...

If a source requires HDCP, which apparently the PS3 will for hi-def, then there is no way around it short of a VERY expensive broadcast-level converter that is HDCP compliant and also has HD analog output. We're talking 5-6 digit prices.

Anyway, to the guy who said that Apple wouldn't offer a monitor with VGA support because they only want one connector, I have to ask you...do you realize that the MORE common situation is that a SINGLE DVI input on a monitor acccepts both VGA analog (though DVI) and DVI digital signals?

The ONLY reason apple chose not to include this capability is because there is another small conversion chip/board required to convert an analog (VGA over DVI) signal into something the screen can more easily display (digital).

As someone has pointed out, the exact same "screen" in a less-attractive Dell casing comes with a DVI port that can "see" VGA signals sent over DVI. So do nearly all Samsung and Viewsonic LCDs with DVI inputs.

The killer thing with the Dell is that the screen is the same quality, exactly, because it's the same electronics, but the price is (much) lower, and it comes with the very useful ability to display analog signals...

and i have this dell monitor, and it works great with my 360.
:cool:

DISCOMUNICATION

Dec 2, 2005, 01:34 PM

This is the only way to get consumer video devices to interface with an Apple ADC display. (http://adamwilt.com/HDV/hp2335.html#DVI) The signal goes from component to SDI to DVI-D. That's three signals being passed over 2 converters. And you will still need RCA-to-BNC adapters for your component cable.
Because of HDCP you can't use a pure digital signal from a consumer video device either (PS3). "Can I use the ADC as a tv?" comes up so (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=161423) often (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=157747) we should really make a sticky for this subject on a seperate thread.

DISCOMUNICATION

Dec 2, 2005, 02:03 PM

Here are some pictures of the set up Adam Wilt was talking about.

bluebomberman

Dec 2, 2005, 11:01 PM

pionata

Dec 7, 2005, 06:57 PM

Man, threads like this make me hate technology.

I switched to Macs so that I don't have to worry about crap like this. Who knew that the question of whether you can connect a video game system to a high-resolution display would leave my head spinning?

Hope you guys figure it out.

Lets not despair yet ;)

Few reasons for hope:

1) As far as we know, no one tested the vgator with the cinema displays and a xbox 360 yet, in theory, there is no reason why this would not work, since its made specialy for apples displays.

2) The ps3 is pure digital only, so with a normal adapter ~30$ it should work, unless sony is going hdcp, wich is not sure; and according to many rumors, they wont do it with the ps3 becose there is still many people without hdcp hdtv.

3) Then even if they do go for hdcp, the ps3 will come with a digital to vga or component adapter, wich should still send a hd resolution, then you could rewire this through the vgator and send it through the apple cinema display.

4) Third party companies like madcatz specialize in adapters and must be preparing something, cause those are going to sell...

DISCOMUNICATION

Dec 7, 2005, 09:20 PM

Lets not despair yet ;)

Few reasons for hope:

1) As far as we know, no one tested the vgator with the cinema displays and a xbox 360 yet, in theory, there is no reason why this would not work, since its made specialy for apples displays.

2) The ps3 is pure digital only, so with a normal adapter ~30$ it should work, unless sony is going hdcp, wich is not sure; and according to many rumors, they wont do it with the ps3 becose there is still many people without hdcp hdtv.

3) Then even if they do go for hdcp, the ps3 will come with a digital to vga or component adapter, wich should still send a hd resolution, then you could rewire this through the vgator and send it through the apple cinema display.

4) Third party companies like madcatz specialize in adapters and must be preparing something, cause those are going to sell...

I was going to reply to each point and ask you if you read the entire thread, but then I realized you are thinking about the old polycarb proprietary connector ADC, because you mentioned the Vgator (http://www.vgator.com/us/). These people want to know if they can hook a game console up to the current line of aluminium DVI-D Apple Cinema Displays. They can't without dropping a rediculous amount of money on 2 pro-level video converters. And while I can't find any official word on whether the PS3 will utilize HDCP. It's far more likely it will than it won't.
On the upside I think we are going to see more PC monitors with HDCP DVI ports this coming year in preparation for Windbloz Vista. Dell has already shown hints of whats to come with their 30 incher (http://www.trustedreviews.com/article.aspx?art=2213) and Gateway with thier 21 incher (http://gateway.com/programs/lcd/index.shtml?cmpid=index*home*promotions*21lcd*programs/lcd/index~~shtml). Will Apple fallow suit? (maybe not before the PowerMac gets redesigned for Intel in 07) I used to think HDCP's real purpose was to sell HDTVs and keep people from using thier computer monitors as High Def displays. Now I'm not so sure.

quidire

May 16, 2006, 01:16 PM

There is another option all of you have forgotten about.

Analog - Digital conversion
Gefen VGA-DVI converter (http://www.gefen.com/kvm/product.jsp?prod_id=1310)
Gefen VGA-DVI w/ Scaler (http://www.gefen.com/kvm/product.jsp?prod_id=1435)
Gefen VGA-DVI w/ Scaler (http://www.gefen.com/kvm/product.jsp?prod_id=3557) (somehow, cheaper than the other one. Also newer, it is in pre-order right now)

You should call Gefen to see which of these is most appropriate for you.