Intel Mac mini To Evolve Into Digital Hub? [Archive]

MacRumors

Nov 28, 2005, 11:53 PM

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Think Secret (http://www.thinksecret.com/news/0511macmini2.html) claims an Intel-based Mac mini will make an appearance at MacWorld San Francisco in January. Expected to be included in the update, other than the move to Intel processor:

• Front Row 2.0
• "TiVo-Killer" DVR application
• Built-In iPod Dock
• Possible move to 3.5" hard drive

Whether the DVR capability comes standard on the mini or as an add-on module is unknown. According to Think Secret, the built-in iPod dock was expected on the first mini, but later scrapped. The inclusion of a larger 3.5" hard drive would indicate the form factor for the mini would increase in size to accomodate it.

Lacero

Nov 28, 2005, 11:54 PM

Yes! Robert Cringely seems to think so as well.

http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20050120.html

The mac mini makes the perfect 'TiVo' like device. Coupled with iTunes and iLife and Front Row, it makes the next Mac mini a very viable consumer friendly device.

macbaseball

Nov 28, 2005, 11:56 PM

I would buy one the second it came out. Then I'd sell the EyeTV 500, and wireless connect it to my PowerMac for TV show storage. That would be great.

Nermal

Nov 28, 2005, 11:57 PM

Front Row 2? 1 just came out! On the other hand, look at how long iTunes 5 lasted :rolleyes:

Edit: After reading the article, I now see the Front Row iMac as a "beta test" before releasing a TV-connectible Mini :cool:

switchr92

Nov 28, 2005, 11:58 PM

If it stays under 1000, and the speed isn't bad, that sounds like something i'd buy.

w_parietti22

Nov 29, 2005, 12:00 AM

Front Row 2? 1 just came out! On the other hand, look at how long iTunes 5 lasted :rolleyes:

Yeah... but 1 seems to have lots of problems. Plus, it needs to include a tivo symbol.

Freg3000

Nov 29, 2005, 12:05 AM

Retaining the Mac mini name would indicate that it will remain in the same price range.

"Awesome new product...but higher prices" is kinda wet towel IMO.

bbyrdhouse

Nov 29, 2005, 12:08 AM

This is great news because I am looking a buying 3 or 4 new Macs in the next month or so for the offices. I think 3 IMacs and a new Mac mini will do the trick.
I really hope that they release Pages 2.0 soon.

SAukland

Nov 29, 2005, 12:08 AM

ok... so now we have reports of intel ibooks, powerbooks, imacs, and mac minis. this is seeming sort of "nostradamus" sounding. :cool:

mduser63

Nov 29, 2005, 12:11 AM

ThinkSecret seems to not be as reliable as they used to be lately, and I wonder whether to believe this prediction. Anyway, if the prediction is true and a true media center mini is released (Intel or not), I will buy one as soon as I have the cash in my bank account.

Koodauw

Nov 29, 2005, 12:12 AM

ill see your Intel Mac Mini rumor, and raise you two Intel PB rumors, and 3.0 Ghz G5 Rumor.

p0intblank

Nov 29, 2005, 12:19 AM

The upgrades sound nice, but wait a minute! A 3.5" hard drive? No, this is not required in my opinion. This would just make the Mac mini a larger system and I don't want that. Its size is perfect how it is. I realize it wouldn't be that much larger, but still... anyone agree with me on this? There are 7200RPM notebook drives out there; so utilize them! As for the built-in iPod dock, that sounds very nice. I don't want it to mess up the style of the mini, though. I hope Apple implements it with stealth in mind. Maybe an "eject" button of some sort reveals the Dock whenever you want it showing. That'd be pretty nice. :) And FrontRow 2.0 would be excellent! The Mac mini is the perfect HTPC. And with FrontRow included, that would be perfect. Oh please be true... I'm just a little concerned about increasing the size of the system.

syklee26

Nov 29, 2005, 12:20 AM

I will take a bit of sacrifice on size for a chance to have 500gb hard drive. the biggest problem I have with Mini is the fact that I cannot store all my music (over 120gb) in the hard drive.

increase the height about half an inch and I am cool with it.

but the question is, isn't intel processor cool enough to be able to offset bigger hard drive with less cooling?

macbaseball

Nov 29, 2005, 12:22 AM

For the iPod dock, I'm thinking something that pops out of the back, so you can just place your iPod down, and it would appear just to be sitting right behind the edge. I think that would be much better than to mess up the top. Perhaps there will be an all new form factor.

noel4r

Nov 29, 2005, 12:23 AM

Yeah, come on Apple..... I should have $500 by then.... If you got the goods, I'll have the cash....

BlueRevolution

Nov 29, 2005, 12:23 AM

I was expecting tv tuners to be in the next release of the iMac, but I guess it would work in the mini too. I'm wondering if we'll get built in s video and composite out, without an adapter required... that would be very nice for the whole media center concept. I don't like the built in dock idea though, it would damage the sleek line of the thing.

all of that, of course, assuming reliable sources. I'd say this is a borderline-page 2 rumour.

barneygumble

Nov 29, 2005, 12:25 AM

THat will replace my current dvr when it comes out.

On a side note how the hell does lacero manage to get first post in everything, i am beginning to think he is a compendium of the moderators to take their post frustration out through:D

feffer37

Nov 29, 2005, 12:27 AM

Wow.

If they pull this off, and I have no doubt of Apple being able to do it, it could be the earthshattering-knockout punch to Window's Media Center before it really has a chance to take root.

Imagine the simplicity of your Mac, in leauge with your TV. Plug in your iPod and download your shows for on the go.

No question, I would replace my iPod earlier than intended, and pick up the mini as my media center.

But, ThinkSecret has been wrong before....but allow me to dream a little longer....my bluetooth keyboard and mouse, checking an email without needing to snag my poor&worn PB12inch. Oh, got to fly out east? Well, then I'll just take my 4 hours of Stargate SG1 & Atlantis with me! Sounds like a perfect time to catch up on Simpsons & Adult Swim!

darwen

Nov 29, 2005, 12:28 AM

balamw

Nov 29, 2005, 12:28 AM

Sold!

I'd buy one the very instant such a thing was announced. I already have a PC in the living room as a games machine for the kids. If this could also function as a Digital Hub for DVD content and iPhoto & iTunes I'd be a very happy man, and my wife would also be happy to see the behemoth PC go out the window.

I should add that I already own two DirecTivo's, and if DirectTV hadn't crippled them, I'd already be using them as a digital hub.

B

Chundles

Nov 29, 2005, 12:30 AM

The upgrades sound nice, but wait a minute! A 3.5" hard drive? No, this is not required in my opinion. This would just make the Mac mini a larger system and I don't want that. Its size is perfect how it is. I realize it wouldn't be that much larger, but still... anyone agree with me on this? There are 7200RPM notebook drives out there; so utilize them!

Yeah, but how many 2.5" 500GB hard drives are there out there? None.

They'll have to switch to a larger form factor just so they can put in a big hard drive that can deal with the massive storage requirements of a media centre.

I doubt it will replace the Mac mini though, it's going to be more expensive and in a totally different form-factor. ThinkSecret have a habit of doing this - they get the gist of the rumour right but they run a little too far to the side. This will most likely be a new product (Mac midi??) that looks similar to a Mac mini but larger in size.

BlueRevolution

Nov 29, 2005, 12:31 AM

HOLY MOLEY! DVR? WTF!

I may be buying my third apple computer soon! I am looking at getting a TiVo this christmas and the membership cost is killing me! This will be amazing if the mini can replace TiVo! No more Monopolies! Yay!

you mean like the iPod replaced the diskman? no more monopolies? hehe, you mean better monopolies ;)

Aldaris

Nov 29, 2005, 12:33 AM

I hope this is going to happen, it'll be nice to see Apple's take on the home theatre... right now my take is a nice G4 Cube and some big speakers!
I predict pricing to stay at 499, 599, and 699;

Bastich

Nov 29, 2005, 12:36 AM

If it's going to have an iPod dock built in, it HAS to be bigger, just to accommodate the extra depth a recessed dock would require.

Personally, I'd only get a Mac Mini Home edition if I could record in high definition. Could this be the culmination of what Steve originally hinted at with his "Year of HD" announcement?

B)

LagunaSol

Nov 29, 2005, 12:37 AM

Mudbug

Nov 29, 2005, 12:39 AM

Couple things:

1) generally, I don't pounce on first-edition releases of any hardware, but if all this comes to pass, I'll plunk down my money pretty quick.

2) after briefly chatting with Nick at Think Secret tonight, he wanted me to emphasize that the move to 3.5" HD was _speculation_ and not part of the "known" bits about the machine. That said, it sure would make sense for them to move up to a standard-sized HD and allow for upgradability if it indeed does the DVR thing.

3) I think Lacero reloads the front page incessantly so he/she can get first post a lot. Plus, he/she knows the trick for holding the spot. For the record, I'm fine with that, and appreciate that you're using it for an actual post, instead of "neato - first."

pionata

Nov 29, 2005, 12:39 AM

Damn I just bought a mini... I will still get a powermac in september, but it realy suck when you buy something and something else get released less than 2 months after. Is there some sort of exchange possibility when that appens with apple?

Object-X

Nov 29, 2005, 12:40 AM

ok... so now we have reports of intel ibooks, powerbooks, imacs, and mac minis. this is seeming sort of "nostradamus" sounding. :cool:

It's true! He predicted it. I read it at the supermarket. I mean, he nails it everytime. Unbleviable.

Peace

Nov 29, 2005, 12:41 AM

BlueRevolution

Nov 29, 2005, 12:42 AM

Give this thing HD recording capability and iTunes streaming control (from my Power Mac via Airport Express), and I'm in. Like Flint.

Goodbye TiVo, with your monthly subscription fees and your pathetic Mac support!

iTunes streaming control... mind clarifying? you mean, control airport extreme streamed music with the apple remote?

Nermal

Nov 29, 2005, 12:50 AM

The upgrades sound nice, but wait a minute! A 3.5" hard drive? No, this is not required in my opinion. This would just make the Mac mini a larger system and I don't want that.

What if the new CPU runs hotter, and requires a bigger heatsink, and therefore a larger case? If the case is getting bigger anyway, then they might as well put in a bigger drive too.

Edit: I missed Peace's post (2 above mine), which says basically the same thing!

BWhaler

Nov 29, 2005, 12:50 AM

I really hope this rumor is true. Assuming Apple does the living room hub/dvr right, I will buy on day one. I could care less about the cost.

There are two common--common meaning 10-100's of millions of people use these devices or need a solution--electronic devices/purposes which the market's current solutions are terrible:

1. Living room hub and universal remote.
2. Cell phones

If Apple gives us solutions to both in 2006, I will be happy. As a shareholder, I will wish I had bought more stock.

My prediction:
January for the living room since this doesn't require cooperation from partners.
September for the cell phone with Cingular and Orange as distributors.

BWhaler

Nov 29, 2005, 12:55 AM

Poor Tivo.

I used to be a big fan. Sold a ton of units over the years as I raved about Tivo to my friends.

But Tivo got stupid, and now I am done with them.

Tivo's Sins:

1. Their hardware is massively out of date. No HD? No dual tuners? Pathetic.

2. No support for the Mac. This is moronic of them, and it has nothing to do with supporting the Mac community (although that would be a nice thing to do.) Microsoft has been gunning for their business for years, and by not supporting the Mac and Linux, they are reinforcing the need to use their competition's solutions.

3. Putting advertisements through-out the user interface

4. Putting advertisements over TV shows. The brand promise was to skip advertisements and watch TV on our terms. Tivo broke that promise, and sold-out to the major networks.

Poor, poor Tivo. Goodbye old friend.

Phatpat

Nov 29, 2005, 12:59 AM

If they are going to sell it as a DVR/Video hub, then the 3.5" HDD is necessity. The 40gb HDD on the current base model mini is way too small for this; with 3.5" HDD's they could have capacities or 80/160/250 GB easily, with no price increases. Those small HDD's are expensive in large capacities.

BlueRevolution

Nov 29, 2005, 01:02 AM

oh, and... 8x DL superdrive standard goes without saying. I still dream of the apple remote going bluetooth too...

(sorry for the massive postage)

Chundles

Nov 29, 2005, 01:05 AM

Nermal

Nov 29, 2005, 01:05 AM

oh, and... 8x DL superdrive standard goes without saying.

Apple NZ was selling first-gen Minis with 8x DL drives. I never saw this in any other country though, and the current models seem to only be 4x :confused:

NickFalk

Nov 29, 2005, 01:07 AM

Hm, if the speculation regarding the larger HD/Formfactor + an iPod connector is correct this soundmore like a completely new product than a mini upgrade...

seriypshick

Nov 29, 2005, 01:08 AM

Page 2 rumors: "Broadband Tuner 1.0 Released"

What does it do?
"The installer increases the default values for the size of the TCP send and receive buffers. With larger buffers more data can be in transit at once."

So, why is apple doing this?
You got it, video content.

Lacero

Nov 29, 2005, 01:12 AM

Poor, poor Tivo. Goodbye old friend.
LOL. I'm still saying hello to my VHS cassettes and VCR. I don't even use Guide+plus fer crying out loud! Still one of those people who program recording choices via remote control. SP or EP? Tough choices.

I heard TiVo was great until they made some sort of death wish upon themselves. Seems they want to go bankrupt. I think Apple releasing a Mac mini + DVR combo is the type of machine I could see myself owning. Coupled with wireless surfing from the couch... wow!

I could watch TV AND post on MR at nearly the same time! My dreams are coming true! :D

Here's to the Crazy Ones http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=35452 (http://www.uriah.com/apple-qt/movies/think-different.mov)

balamw

Nov 29, 2005, 01:17 AM

I don't think we have Tivo over here, if we do it's certainly not big. I thought it was a Hard-drive. Just a big harddrive in a box with some recording software. What is it then?
Tivo completely revolutionizes the way you watch TV. The hardware is as you describe, but i's the service that brings you the guide (and the ads) that is the main attraction. The UI is really intuitive and you can set up season passes and wishlists to have it record things you like automatically even if they are rescheduled, shown on a different date and time. On top of that you can rate programs ranging from three thumbs down to three thumbs up and these ratings are used to let the Tivo itself figure out what programs you might like and record them for you in the background and present them to you as "suggestions".

Then of course there's the pause live TV functions which allow you to take a potty break whenever you feel like and and also allow you to fast forward through the commercials if you are watching a porgram with a slight delay.

B

w00master

Nov 29, 2005, 01:18 AM

MacSlut

Nov 29, 2005, 01:29 AM

A 3.5" hard drive? No, this is not required in my opinion. This would just make the Mac mini a larger system and I don't want that. Its size is perfect how it is. I realize it wouldn't be that much larger, but still... anyone agree with me on this? There are 7200RPM notebook drives out there; so utilize them!

It has nothing to do with 7200rpm. As it is, 5400 rpm is too fast (noise, heat and wasted speed). The issue is with cost (3.5" is considerably cheaper per GB) and with capacity (even 500GB isn't enough for some of us...my media collection is well over 1.5TB). Sure there is FireWire and USB2, but the cool thing about a potential "mini a/v" is that it would be so convenient to take with you...and 3.5" versus 2.5" really won't increase the size much.

OMG, to think that this bad little boy could boot as a Windows PC, an OS X Mac, and replace my TiVo...Life could be good. Now, please, please, please, let this control common cable boxes, provide an "Apple-cool" programming guide via the Web, and let the files be open (for burning and transfer).

yahootester

Nov 29, 2005, 01:43 AM

http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2000/04/20000426204518.shtml

mcarnes

Nov 29, 2005, 01:43 AM

Man, I hope the new Front Row can launch VIDEO_TS files. That would be soooooooooooo cool.

vmardian

Nov 29, 2005, 01:49 AM

Hope it supports cablecard, if not you'll *ONLY* be getting over-the-air HD content for that DVR. This is the primary thing that has been holding back MCE 2005. Hope it doesn't do the same for Apple's launch into the living room.

w00master

That sounds complicated. I bet this "DVR" functionality simply consists of a "Record Now" function that records an incoming unencrypted digital signal using real time H.264 encoding via some dedicated chip. Completely dumb like our old VCRs. Why spend time on broadcast TV when the future is video-on-demand?

nagromme

Nov 29, 2005, 02:00 AM

I don't know about the rest of it, but I want a good Mac-based PVR. I have my eye on El Gato, but I'd sure like to see what Apple might do themselves.

All just rumor, but I could imagine it happening.

The iPod Dock circuitry is already in the current Mini. But if they decide to use it after all, there's a good reason for them to have waited: now ALL docking iPods can share the same dock, using the supplied adapter plates. That wasn't true when the first Mac Mini shipped.

Dr. Dastardly

Nov 29, 2005, 02:04 AM

http://www.alicia-logic.com/capsimages/ww_053.jpg

strange days

Nov 29, 2005, 02:13 AM

give an uberclass mac mini with dual-core and liquid cooling ( well, at least make it as silent as possible ), and i'll shell out 1000$ no questions asked ;)

jacg

Nov 29, 2005, 02:21 AM

Would this not be counter to Apple's publisher/broadcaster-friendly approach? I mean since they stopped referring to iTunes and "rip and burn" in the same sentence hasn't Steve Jobs been trying to keep record companies onside?

How keen are broadcasters of free to air stuff like the BBC going to be if their existing content is turned to downloadable content with Apple simplicity? Yes I know you can do this already (with analogue signals only?) but its more than one click. How will it fit with the video store model already in place?

What about people who rely on encrypted content. It bugs me that my Sky+ DVR records everything in MPEG2 but there's currently no way to get the stuff onto a computer without using a slow, degrading analogue capture. When HD stuff comes out wont the digital signal be DRMed in some way anyway?

Sorry if I sound doubtful. I would, however, be very interested in such a device were it to be released.

jacg

Nov 29, 2005, 02:24 AM

Surely they'd have to update the iMac simultaneously with the same features?

(And perhaps they could fix the buzzing fan on the 20" while they're at it...)

shanmui1

Nov 29, 2005, 02:25 AM

Does a digital hub Mac mean we can also look forward to a gaming Mac? :D

BlueRevolution

Nov 29, 2005, 02:27 AM

But if they decide to use it after all, there's a good reason for them to have waited: now ALL docking iPods can share the same dock, using the supplied adapter plates. That wasn't true when the first Mac Mini shipped.

actually, I think it worked the other way: they developed a universal dock design for the mini, but when the feature was axed from the mini design they decided to release it as a standalone unit. I still say a dock connector in the top of the mini would be ugly...

edit:

Does a digital hub Mac mean we can also look forward to a gaming Mac? :D

ah, returning to the whole iBox idea... that would be amazing if you could do all that AND console gaming on the same machine. well, as long as it has some manner of TV out you should be able to plug in a gamepad and play your choice of 5 games... or dualboot to W*ndows and do console gaming from there.

damn, if this ends up being true I'm gonna have to shell out for a third mac myself.

Marx55

Nov 29, 2005, 02:31 AM

Sounds great. Seems to me as the rebirth of the Cube. I only ask for a few things to place orders:

1) Quiet Mac. If possible, fanless.
2) Large & fast 7.200 rpm hard disk. Large 500GB HD a great bonus.
3) At least TWO independent (no hub-like) FireWire Ports. FireWire 800 a bonus.
4) Audio in/out for microphone, headphones and Apple Pro Speakers.
5) Last but not least, triple booting as Mac, Linux and Windows. Virtual switching between OSes (without hardware rebooting) a great bonus.

We will replace all our Intel machines with this Mactel. In fact, we will standardize on these Mactels if released with the above o better specifications.

Nermal

Nov 29, 2005, 02:33 AM

My dad wants to get a DVR, which would set him back about $700. If this new Mac retains its $950 price point, then I might be able to talk him into one :)

BlueRevolution

Nov 29, 2005, 02:34 AM

Marx55

Nov 29, 2005, 02:40 AM

:eek: and you expect to fit all of that in here?

Size is no issue for us. Just make it a bit larger and it will do OK.

BTW, this one looks nice:
http://www.tuaw.com/2004/08/13/imac-g5-kraftwerk/

Original at:
http://www.mackompass.de/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=52&Itemid=2

OK, probably the Mac mini does not need to be that big. But we would not mind anyway!

Hattig

Nov 29, 2005, 02:41 AM

If this device includes DVR functionality, then at the very least it needs a video input, better an integrated digital tuner. They did hire the ElGato guy recently…

Given the current ports on the back of the mini, there isn't any room to add the required aerial ports or svideo/scart. Therefore the device would have to be wider to add them. Because of this, a 3.5" hard drive can be used. The device may be a little taller than a current Mac Mini (3.5" hard drives are 2-3x as high as 2.5" hard drives), or twice as wide. The latter might allow for an integrated power supply however.

Because of this, I'm thinking that it isn't a Mac Mini replacement, but a Media Mac new product. Expect the device at $799, not $499.

I expect it to boot Mac OS X from 512MB of embedded flash memory for fast cold boot times. Not many consumers are willing to wait 1 minute to watch TV/DVD! Additionally it will go into a deep sleep like my iBook does, and return from sleep in under 2 seconds. I like that.

Important design features for me are:

- Quiet (zero fans)
- No blinking lights
- Simple remote
- Good interface

If it happens, it will be the first major computer to have a decent living-room design. Apple have got a lot of space to work in actually, given the size of your average device. I hope the remote is larger though, it'll get lost down the side of the sofa otherwise.

Chundles

Nov 29, 2005, 02:53 AM

Tivo completely revolutionizes the way you watch TV. The hardware is as you describe, but i's the service that brings you the guide (and the ads) that is the main attraction. The UI is really intuitive and you can set up season passes and wishlists to have it record things you like automatically even if they are rescheduled, shown on a different date and time. On top of that you can rate programs ranging from three thumbs down to three thumbs up and these ratings are used to let the Tivo itself figure out what programs you might like and record them for you in the background and present them to you as "suggestions".

Then of course there's the pause live TV functions which allow you to take a potty break whenever you feel like and and also allow you to fast forward through the commercials if you are watching a porgram with a slight delay.

B

So really it's just like all the HDD recorders we already have here, expensive as they are.

I doubt it would really be that popular over here with our 5 free-to-air channels and very low cable uptake, there's really not much on telly.

Chundles

Nov 29, 2005, 02:55 AM

Does a digital hub Mac mean we can also look forward to a gaming Mac? :D

Woah, woah big fella, slow down there. Don't want to get too far ahead of ourselves on here. If we start throwing around rumours like that Steve's bound to get hold of them and cancel the whole product for good. cough*asteroid*cough

jascreep

Nov 29, 2005, 02:55 AM

I've never used Tivo, so I don't know if this is already possible, but I hope they include some web interface to allow programming over the web. So even if it is a simple DVR, if you forget to program it and you're somewhere else, just log in and start your recording :) Maybe even integrate this with .Mac, which would certainly increase subscriptions.

Staffroomer

Nov 29, 2005, 03:19 AM

We don't even have TIVO in Australia, so I can't help but wonder what this option would do in our market.. If advertised effectively of course.

petej

Nov 29, 2005, 03:19 AM

The D/PVR market is a very difficult one to jump into at the moment. I therefore regard this news with caution. My reasoning is as follows.
1) The Tivo is a device that has been developed specifically for 1 market - the US. They tried the UK but gave up. There is more to the Tivo than just a TV tuner, there is the small matter of collating TV schedule from all content providers on a realtime basis and keeping the box updated with the changing schedule.
2) At the moment, there is a wide range of transmission formats available at the moment - terrestrial analogue / digital, cable, satellite and now the web. All of these require different tuners and in a large number of cases, dedicated content descramblers.
3) HD broadcasts are now being experimented which will leave most existing hardware redundant
4) HDMI - this is a new format connector for linking multimedia devices. It is only just finding it's way into medium price domestic flat panel displays. HDCP digital content protection (with links to intel) is also part of the mix.

I therefore see the tuner functionality remaining outside the box, so one can plug the appropriate one in.

As Apple has in general taken new standards into products early, I would not be shocked to see the mini fitted with HDMI in / out sockets and for these sockets to be HDCP enabled. Apple displays would probably be updated at the same time to also support HDCP with HDMI connectors.
Would a HDMI enabled mini with some nice new software be considered a D/PVR? I think and hope so

The Living Room suite of the future (or maybe next year) will be a Dumb Flat panel - no built in tuner. A dumb TV tuner box. A Mini. A surround sound amplifier. Everything will be connected by HDMI and the software in the mini will control everything. Simplicity of living room control could well be a reality.

A mini with a built in amplifier and tuner - I hope not.

bob_the_gorilla

Nov 29, 2005, 03:25 AM

call me a pessimist, but I don't see it happening. It's too soon after the iMac, and it's the wrong product. It's blatantly just what we all want to hear - which is why noone has thought about it rationally.

joepunk

Nov 29, 2005, 03:31 AM

Sounds very cool and hope that the price does not rise to much. I however will still be using the VHS recorder for years to come.

Chundles

Nov 29, 2005, 03:45 AM

We don't even have TIVO in Australia, so I can't help but wonder what this option would do in our market.. If advertised effectively of course.

I was pretty sure we didn't have it but I can see the slogan now...

"Do what you do now with a VCR but over the internet and with more buttons and menus and stuff. TiVo - it's great, but not when you only have 5 channels."

generik

Nov 29, 2005, 03:55 AM

virtual switching? not while steve still draws breath...

*loads rifle*

If that's what it takes :D

wonderkid

Nov 29, 2005, 03:57 AM

Myself and others have predicted and stated that the Mac Mini always was the perfect media hub, so whether or not Think Secret's story is based on fact or not, it is obvious the Mac Mini was not only conceived first and foremost as a media hub, just by it's form factor, but also as a gaming console. It's a hell of a lot more elegant and technically sophisticated than any of the three next generation consoles (it's a real computer too), with the exception of Nintendo's amazing new Revolution controller. Anyway, Apple will do wonders with a Mac Mini hub if they can combine the ease of use of Front Row with the versatility of iTunes which is the best example of a piece of software that combines an intuitive interface with increasingly sophisticated features.

Aggamemnon

Nov 29, 2005, 03:58 AM

Well, I hoping for one.

Now all we need is someone to predict an Intel PowerMac at MWSF and the cycle will be complete :p

Truffy

Nov 29, 2005, 04:02 AM

Oh goody, an iPod dock for all of us who don't have an iPod. Add a memory stick slot and I'm sold! :rolleyes:

Before I'd consider one of these, Apple need to do something about the lousy graphics card. But I guess that goes without saying :D

aegisdesign

Nov 29, 2005, 04:03 AM

So really it's just like all the HDD recorders we already have here, expensive as they are.

I doubt it would really be that popular over here with our 5 free-to-air channels and very low cable uptake, there's really not much on telly.

Yep. It's pretty much like that or Sky+. The Guide stuff isn't anything more than we've had for what, two decades? with decent VCRs that get their program info from teletext - videoplus style. Sure it looks nicer but it's the same thing, except free.

The problem with a Mac Mini with TV tuner capability built in is just which TV standards do you support. Analogue is due to go away but I don't get anything but analogue here (in PAL, not NTSC or SECAM). In Europe we've Digital Terrestial (DVB-T), Digital Satellite, cable, DVB-H and probably a bunch of others I've not come across. Then you've got competing pay card standards...

Even ElGato don't do a box with it all in or even just analog and DVB-T.

ender78

Nov 29, 2005, 04:03 AM

As an owner of a Mac mini, I do love its size. Howerver, the 4200 RPM drive in the unit has been shown to be a limiting factor in its performance. I have a HD PVR with a 250GB HD from my satellite provider. At HD rates, I only get about 20 hours of HD content before the drive runs dry. This may seem like a lot, but with my schedule, I find a need for more, I'm waiting for the ability to add another drive externally. They do also need to make the unit a little bit more user servicable, I think that making RAM a non user servicable part on the mini was a big mistage. Doubling the height of the unit would still make it very compact.

HiRez

Nov 29, 2005, 04:06 AM

This would just make the Mac mini a larger system and I don't want that. Its size is perfect how it is. I realize it wouldn't be that much larger, but still... anyone agree with me on this?I wouldn't be surprised to see the Mini move to an all new form-factor. One shorter, but wider and deeper. In other words, one that would fit nicely in your stack of A/V gear, perhaps something like a mini Xserve. That's assuming they're going to be pushing it as a digital hub. The current form factor may be useful for a small desk, but is awkward for an A/V component.

petej

Nov 29, 2005, 04:06 AM

I was pretty sure we didn't have it but I can see the slogan now...

"Do what you do now with a VCR but over the internet and with more buttons and menus and stuff. TiVo - it's great, but not when you only have 5 channels."

Tivo did come to the UK a few years ago. It was very expensive and required subscription (If i remember correctly).

Sky+ is effectively doing the tivo equivalent and is really starting to build a loyal following even with the monthly charge.
For Freeview, there is a growing range of devices that do the job with varying degrees of success. See http://forum.digitalspy.co.uk/board/forumdisplay.php?f=90
for a discussion on the current crop.

Will Cheyney

Nov 29, 2005, 04:11 AM

It all sounds very likely - and awesome. I'd get one!
Didn't someone find what looked like an early dock connector chipset on the mother board of the mini?

Analog Kid

Nov 29, 2005, 04:13 AM

It has nothing to do with 7200rpm. As it is, 5400 rpm is too fast (noise, heat and wasted speed). The issue is with cost (3.5" is considerably cheaper per GB) and with capacity (even 500GB isn't enough for some of us...my media collection is well over 1.5TB). Sure there is FireWire and USB2, but the cool thing about a potential "mini a/v" is that it would be so convenient to take with you...and 3.5" versus 2.5" really won't increase the size much.

OMG, to think that this bad little boy could boot as a Windows PC, an OS X Mac, and replace my TiVo...Life could be good. Now, please, please, please, let this control common cable boxes, provide an "Apple-cool" programming guide via the Web, and let the files be open (for burning and transfer).

Keep it small. The number of mini's sold as desktop machines will far outstrip the number sold as media centres. If the mess with the form factor they'll lose what's beautiful about the mini.

I've picked up a mini as a headless server because of the size, and I'm already dreaming about how to make use of another.

As you said, the storage requirements for a videophile will exceed any drive they can put in there, so keep a couple firewire ports, but don't upset the core unit.

The 4GB nano is outselling the 60GB iPod even though there are some pretty loud voices here complaining that even 60GB isn't enough for them. The iPod can't be expanded, but the mini can-- look at things like the OWC mini-mate or whatever they call it (500GB drive and FW/USB hub that matches the mini footprint).

I'd expect Apple to follow the industry and their own history on this one as far as DRM: what you record yourself is yours, what you dowload from them is locked. Record your favorite shows, or pull them from iTMS if you didn't set it up, joined the series late, or just want it commercial free.

Aggamemnon

Nov 29, 2005, 04:13 AM

Yeah, the I/O headers were present.

MacSA

Nov 29, 2005, 04:27 AM

I hope, IF this rumour turns out to be true, this will be an additional product alongside the current Mac mini as I can't see it being cheap at all. I just want a cheap Mac.

ezekielrage_99

Nov 29, 2005, 04:29 AM

New Mac Mini..... cool, I think

Kind of getting tired of the speculation and rumors though.....

But then again I heard it on the internet so it must be true :rolleyes:

rdowns

Nov 29, 2005, 04:36 AM

Talk about great free publicity. We're barely a week into the great iPod for xmas frenzy and already we have rumors (from traditional Mac rumor sites and Wall Street analysts) of Intel versions of most Apple lines coming in January. No doubt we will be disappointed when most, if not all, fail to materialize at MWSF.

As an Apple stockholder, I say keep the frenzy up.

mino

Nov 29, 2005, 04:46 AM

There are two common--common meaning 10-100's of millions of people use these devices or need a solution--electronic devices/purposes which the market's current solutions are terrible:

1. Living room hub and universal remote.
2. Cell phones

I agree.

A media Center Mac mini would need a good remote control (wi-fi iPod?) to choose airport base stations for music and an optical audio out for surround sound.

xnu

Nov 29, 2005, 04:59 AM

I hope when negotiations with Tivo fell apart that Apple purchased (or will purchase) Elgato (EyeTV). I was very skeptical about the product, but craved a d/pvr. This is not an advertisement but I purchase a refurbished EyeTV and it works flawlessly. The software is great, scheduling is simple and there are no monthly fees. You can edit commercials out quickly and it exports in more formats than I can remember, including directly to the ipod. I have my Ipod filled up with the family guy and mxc, I don’t know what I would do without it. And remember the former CEO of Elgato is now with Apple Germany. This is another one where I don’t think Apple has to reinvent the wheel, rather just buy it and tweak it.

Morn

Nov 29, 2005, 05:14 AM

I was hoping for a device like this, the mac mini has the potential to be the perfect home theatre device, and it would only need to be say half an inch higher to fit the tv card and 3.5" drive, I mean it's logic board is already packed, they'd need to make room for the RF receiver and tv microchip. I think a slight change in form factor would be a good idea, to make such a perfect home theatre device, the home theatre computer currently has nothing but sub-par products, reminds me of hard drive mp3 players before ipod, they were completely sub par. What if apple can get a large amount of mainstream comnsumers to consider buying this device instead of a dvd player and set top box, and sell them 720x480 movie and tv shows on itunes store? We may be looking at the device that will obsolete cable tv here... maybe. All from a tiny mac mini box. Sounds ambitious? who would have thought apple would be obsoleting the audio cd and cd player 5 years ago.
They could stick with the current laptop hard drive and use a 120GB one maybe though that would be ok enough, to avoid increasing the units height so much. But it would drive up the cost.
They alraedy have a remote with imac, all they need is a new frontrow version with tv support.

rikers_mailbox

Nov 29, 2005, 05:14 AM

ok ThinkSecret... i believe you. I guess. :rolleyes: :)

... but I don't think this Apple DVR will be a Mac Mini reincarnate. It's gotta be a different form factor. (1) Apple does not want to hurt sales of an already well branded, entry-level computer system. (2) If the Apple DVR/home hub does come to pass, expect it to be marketed as another consumer device (a la the iPod) instead of a computer system. It will be compatible with Windows-based home networks.

$70 a share doesn't scare me. I'm definitely hanging onto my stock through this next year. The transition to Intel and hopes of (insanely) great new products should make things interesting.

Bye Bye Baby

Nov 29, 2005, 05:30 AM

Any chance that a bluray dvd burner will be included in this model or are they not production ready yet? Is bluray backwards compatible i.e. current dvd format?

Would be an awesome little machiene with remote, hard disk and some kind of tv connection.

What is the likelihood of convergence between tv content, movies and internet? How far away is the prospect of having one cable for tv, movie download and internet conncetion? Imagine that- one cable a video capable airport that can stream movies, tv, photos, music to any screen or speakers in your house.

Am I dreaming...?:rolleyes: :cool: :eek:

zap2

Nov 29, 2005, 05:34 AM

Perfect this is what my grandmom was going to buy the Mini for(replace her Media Center PC with her Plasma) so i hope this happens

Platform

Nov 29, 2005, 05:35 AM

This would be really cool.......well if it had a decent CPU and GPU of course....somthing that has power :D

InfiniteLoop1

Nov 29, 2005, 05:46 AM

give it good components a 500 GB 7,200rpm hard drive and all the rest that people have mentioned in this post, keep it cheap, make it bigger for all i care! a small tower will do!

Morn

Nov 29, 2005, 05:46 AM

How about a single core 1.6ghz yonah or something like that, would offer decent performance, and would play mpeg 2 HD.:o it's necessary to use a laptop CPU in it for cooling issues in something so small, as well as silent cooling.
500GB is too expensive I think for something that supposed to be a budget mac. Perhaps a BTO option. :P And the small form factor is very important for a home theatre device. Hmm there is also the consideration of the extra noise a 3.5" drive would make.
I think that size and silence are of top importance for a home theatre device.

LimeiBook86

Nov 29, 2005, 05:46 AM

This is exactly what I have been waiting for, if they actually make this I'll probably buy it. It'll be great to have a fast Mac and a DVR in one box. I wonder how much it will cost but, more importantly, how fast will it be? I wonder how high of a graphics card they'll have in it since it will need a good one. I don't know about the iPod dock, I can't imagine one "built-in"...and what happens if they change the iPod Dock connector? I just can't see that happening, but then again I couldn't see the shuffle becoming a real product and it's been a great product. Wow me Apple so I can spend money I don't have! :D :rolleyes:

Edit: Also remember Apple might not include a 56k modem, they've already took them out from the iMacs and added that $49 USB modem to their store, I say it frees up some space :)

aswitcher

Nov 29, 2005, 05:46 AM

TS has given me some hope for the new year to get some hardware :)

Wishlist.

I would be happy to see a slightly fater Mini with a real HDD (250 gig option) for all my music and movie options. + better cooling. A gig of flash for instant startup ;)

BT/Wifi/IrD as standard. All mounted towards the front.

HMDI/HDCP connector out next to DVI out? S-Video out?

Gigabit ethernet? Is that needed yet?

USB/Firewire connectors...maybe a front mount to easily connect cameras.

iPod dock on top...mmm...kinda cool.

HDMI/HDCP in? to pull the signal from a tuner. With component/Scart/composite to HDMI connector cable options.
OR
Built in SD tuner? As well. There pretty cheap nowadays so why not. Awesome if was HD tuner.

Optical audio in/out for music.

Built in iSight???? Probably not but that would be pretty cool for family conferencing in front of the TV. To much of a pain I guess. So maybe a new iSight with HD.

More advanced remote? Is there anything else it "needs".

DL DVD Burner...

Basic / Advanced model that dont leap too much away from current price points - designed to compete with the 360 and PS3 for multimedia features (not too hard when you only have a 20 gig HDD).

And it comes in Black ;)

And there is a pro one in Metal?

hsvguy

Nov 29, 2005, 05:57 AM

I am not sure i believe this rumor, but a revised Intel based mini would be nice. I'd be willing to sacrafice a little bit of a size increase if it meant a full size hard drive, meaning increased speed.

I'm sure it would help with HD recording and playback, as well as storage.

SiliconAddict

Nov 29, 2005, 06:04 AM

I would drive my car into the Mall of America and block off the Apple store and sit there with a shotgun to be the first to get my hands on an entertainment center based Mac Mini.* I want....I soooo very very much want. :eek:

*I'm soooo kidding

Platform

Nov 29, 2005, 06:04 AM

Will Cheyney

Nov 29, 2005, 06:10 AM

Do you think this will really replace the mini?
People love the mini for it's simplicity( yet not at the expense of a wee pic 'o power), low cost and the whole 'plug-in-and-play' approach.

Adding all these 'extras' is only going to complicate matters. I feel that people would prefer an additional 'media centre' Mac range - for people that want them!

Neerazan

Nov 29, 2005, 06:21 AM

I don't see this as being a mini replacement, and I don't see it as being a full blown Mac. Big buttons on an easy to use oversized interface (a la Front Row) that you can see from across the room, great idea.

Small fonts and menu bars, complicated (for a consumer elecrtonics device) OS tweaking, not so great an idea.

I see this Apple media centre as doing one thing well (media management) rather than lots of things badly (XP Media Centre Edition).

Just my 10 cents.

Morn

Nov 29, 2005, 06:25 AM

I don't think it'll make the mini less simple, such feature should be easy to ignore if you don't want to use them much like the current imac. ;)

Patchr

Nov 29, 2005, 06:27 AM

If this is a Mac with a media centre focus, what becomes of the keyboard and mouse. Perhaps a remote that can navigate around the OS?

Will Cheyney

Nov 29, 2005, 06:30 AM

Remember when this made the rounds?
http://dms.tecknohost.com/macrumors/i/ihome/

http://dms.tecknohost.com/macrumors/i/ihome/Photo-0008.jpg

I think something along these lines is quite likely.

hamishb

Nov 29, 2005, 06:37 AM

Murphy's Law dictates that having just bought a Mac mini, a MacPower MD-X9 (basically a Newertech mini stack) and a 400 Gig HD, plus an eyeTV tuner, Apple will release all this in a smaller box for half the price.

Oh well, I'll just move the "old" mini to be the new webserver, get a new Intel mini for my HTPC, and send the old G4 tower currently acting as my webserver to my church. I donated an old G4/500 with twin graphics cards to run the data projector a few weeks ago and the staff team love it.

Lacero

Nov 29, 2005, 06:40 AM

TS has given me some hope for the new year to get some hardware :)
I'm waiting for new laptop designs using new materials? How about shiny gun metal? Longer battery life of 8 hours using aggressive power management and low-power Yonah (or whatever Intel chip) would make this a reality?

I've read reports Apple was to shrink the motherboard design quite drastically as a step Apple has taken recently of miniaturizing all their product lines.

Here's to the Crazy Ones http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=35452 (http://www.uriah.com/apple-qt/movies/think-different.mov)

Stella

Nov 29, 2005, 06:43 AM

Record your programmes and the Mini will copy these to your iPod Video....

( Apple will upset TV companies - look at Tivo at the moment after their iPod compatibility announcement. )

This machine better be able to support HDTV, otherwise it won't do so well - HDTVs are really quite cheap these days. No one wants to record HD content only to have to watch it downsized. HDTV support would mean a decent graphics card plus a fast CPU. So, I'm not so sure!

pkscout

Nov 29, 2005, 06:43 AM

Well, as long as the speculation and wish listing has run rampent, I'll add mine.

1- a form factor more like standard stereo equipment (that gets you the space for a 3.5" HD, HDMI output, optical audio out, and a GPU that could help with decoding with H.264 files).

2- tuner/encoders sold in same form factor (think stackable) and plugged in via firewire (that allows control of the tuner via firewire and flexibility to do multple tuners).

3- quicktime support to pass AC3 audio to optical output

4- cablecard 2.0 support

I think those are my biggies. Yes, EyeTV does #2 already, but you can (last time I checked) only have one EyeTV unit plugged in at a time. No multiple tuners. I think that's a software limitation.

As for price, I've been costing the hardware necessary to do a MythTV 4 tuner system (2 ATSC, 2 analog cable) to duplicate my HDTiVo capability. That's looking to be around $1,500. So anything around that price (or less) would be fine with me. Maybe $500 for the core system and $300 or so for each tuner module?

Chupa Chupa

Nov 29, 2005, 06:59 AM

sluthy

Nov 29, 2005, 07:13 AM

Can video and audio out both be replaced by a HDMI port with a breakout cable? That would give them more room on the backplate for Firewire and the like, and allowing connection to home-media-oriented displays while keeping compatibility with normal displays (HDMI-to-DVI+RCA audio cable included)?

LimeiBook86

Nov 29, 2005, 07:19 AM

Aeolius

Nov 29, 2005, 07:23 AM

A TiVo-like DVR app isn't nearly as important as the right hardware to accompany it. It must support HDTV (including cable-based, not just over-the-air) and have dual-tuners, or it will fail. My SA 8300 DVR runs circles around my TiVo, when it comes to HDTV, but the interface leaves a lot to be desired. HDMI/DVI input and output, as well as support for 7:1 surround sound would be a expected.

Support for external hard drives and the ability to stream content to additional Macs and TVs would also be expected. TiVo does the latter with TiVoToGo, slated to appear on Macs in mid-2006 (most likely after the Series 3 with HDTV and dual-tuners come out).

TiVo and EyeTV are also working on DVR to video iPod support, another essential ingredient.

mjstew33

Nov 29, 2005, 07:24 AM

Awesome - Inteli Mac minis would be awesome, but not more me. I'd love to have it, but - I gotta save for a car :( :rolleyes: Car = more important that a Mac mini when I got a G5 and the latest iBook G4 :-D

kretzy

Nov 29, 2005, 07:26 AM

I'd be very interested in buying something like this. The only problem is that there's no TiVo in Australia yet! :( ....maybe one day (just like the iTunes Music Store)

bigandy

Nov 29, 2005, 07:26 AM

yes please. :rolleyes:

Hattig

Nov 29, 2005, 07:26 AM

Two HDMI ports would be needed if the Mac Media didn't have a built-in tuner. One would be input from your external tuner (+ lots of adapters, e.g., SCART->HDMI for us Europeans) and the other output to your display (+ adapters - HDMI->VGA, HDMI->DVI, HDMI->Component and so on). It'd be nice if the input HDMI could also be used as an output for dual-head, of course!

With Sky's dominance in the UK for Satellite TV, if you were to use a Mac Media you would need that input from the receiver - it is highly unlikely that Apple would want to implement all the stuff like subscription cards and the like. I expect that the same is true all around the world.

If a tuner was embedded, it would be a plain-jane terrestrial one (hopefully DVB-T in the UK).

Chupa Chupa

Nov 29, 2005, 07:30 AM

It just hit me but, aren't HDMI cables expensive? I remember seeing them going for over $80, I would assume a HDMI breakout box to RCA or S-Video would be pretty expensive. I honestly can't see HDMI in a Mac mini, I don't know maybe Apple will find an inexpensive way to make it happen :D

HDMI cables are expensive IF you buy them at the wrong place like CrapUSA or Beast Buy. Otherwise they can be had for $20 easily.

HDMI won't be part of any Mac Mini until Apple has a monitor that has HDMI, which is probably never. All HDMI is is DVI + digital audio. It is not superior to DVI, just more convenient. It's ideal for TVs, but not computers which have separate sound cards.

dernhelm

Nov 29, 2005, 07:45 AM

Epicurus

Nov 29, 2005, 07:45 AM

I really have doubts about the DVR part. If a Mac did have built-in DVR capabilities surely it would be DRM'd so you could only view it on THAT particular Mac (yes, the new P* chips can regulate this), and not exported, to say...an video iPod. I don't need DVR with my Mac. I've got TiVo. I suspect most people other thant the geekiest of geeks needs DVR in their PC. What people want is an easy way to put video shows on their iPod for less than $1.99 and episode. No way Apple will be complicit in that. So DVR is a yawn. I'd like Front Row 2.0 if it's more advanced, but I'm not going to buy a premium priced mini just for FR.

Look at it this way, after Apple announced they were going to sell TV content through their iTunes store, only ABC has provided any shows. All the other networks are scrambing to set up their own direct sales services either on their own or through existing TV outlets (like Comcast and DirectTV). Meanwhile, TiVo announced that they would be introducing iPod export capabilities to their service in early 2006. This seeks to cut Apple out of the content delivery service altogether.

By introducing a DVR with built in iPod export (and built in iPod dock) Apple will effectively eliminate any new threat from TiVo while also putting additional pressure onto the Networks. Some sort of DRM will be added to any recorded content, but it will probably be in line with the current video DRM (probably a bit more strict). Once Apple goes down this road, it will be very hard to remove any features. To make direct sale still viable, the price will probably be cut down and the DRM will be relaxed (with respect to the DVR DRM). This way if you want to record shows you can (but you'll get commercials in there too) or you can just buy the show online and cut the commercials out (and be able to load it onto multiple Macs). Burn to DVD options might also be opened up for the purchased videos while the DVR content is limited to one Mac and a few iPods.

Macmaniac

Nov 29, 2005, 07:46 AM

Ooh, poor starving student me... I wish I had a TV that I could watch shows on. This could make a nice replacement, it would be awesome if I could attach a coax cable right onto the mini and record family guy:) That would be sweet.

Maybe there is a mini in my future, but for now I want FrontRow and a bluetooth remote for my powerbook:)

page3

Nov 29, 2005, 07:49 AM

Tivo did come to the UK a few years ago. It was very expensive and required subscription (If i remember correctly).

Sky+ is effectively doing the tivo equivalent and is really starting to build a loyal following even with the monthly charge.
For Freeview, there is a growing range of devices that do the job with varying degrees of success. See http://forum.digitalspy.co.uk/board/forumdisplay.php?f=90
for a discussion on the current crop.Nope. Sky+ is a DVR not a PVR. TiVo still working well over here in the UK, and connects to the Mac no problems :)

OddyOh

Nov 29, 2005, 08:05 AM

Think it'll do H.264 hardware encoding for video capture? Or is MPG2 still alive and well? It's have to be a damn fast intel chip (at least 2GHz), unless there is a seperate hardware encoding option they're planning.

Either way, I'm very interested in this. I'm typing this on the 1.25 Mini right now, which has served me well, but truth be told, it isn't the media hub I was looking for, despite all my add-ons (USB hub, external storage, iMic, 20 ft DVI cable to the TV, etc).

And I welcome a slightly bigger form factor to fit a standard Ultra-ATA drive in there (my 5400 40GB is slow, but not unusable). Plus, they may want to fit more RAM in this thing too, if it becomes a media centre. Although, I don't think Apple would go even slightly bigger at this point...seems like a backwards move. On the other hand, it would create another market of "Mini-2" specific add-ons.

Anyway, exciting news, hope it's true. I'll start saving my pennies!

dernhelm

Nov 29, 2005, 08:06 AM

HDMI cables are expensive IF you buy them at the wrong place like CrapUSA or Beast Buy. Otherwise they can be had for $20 easily.

HDMI won't be part of any Mac Mini until Apple has a monitor that has HDMI, which is probably never. All HDMI is is DVI + digital audio. It is not superior to DVI, just more convenient. It's ideal for TVs, but not computers which have separate sound cards.

Agreed. It's also unneccessary. You can get DVI-HDMI cables anyway, and if the mini simply supported digital optical audio out, you can run the DVI to your HDMI TV, and run the audio to your surround sound receiver and Bob's your uncle.

The problem comes in when you have the myriad of different input sources that many people work with these days. My Satellite receiver (for instance) has two independent tuners, together with my DVD, VCR, CD Changer, GameCube/XBox/whatever, and you've got a lot of stuff to manage.

This box would seem to fit somewhere between your satellite/cable receiver and your TV (would be nice if it could support multi-tuner, but if not, OK). It could entirely replace your CD changer and VCR (for recording, anyway). This would significantly reduce clutter, not eliminate it, but reduce it. It would be especially desireable if it wirelessly networked with my home computer to stream my iTunes library, and if it had TiVO-like record and suggest functionality.

Everyone seems to like to beat on TiVO, but from a user standpoint, they really did get it right.

Oh yeah, bonus points if recorded material could be stored off-unit (either by wireless network transfer to an open share, or via firewire). Additional bonus points if home movies produced in iMovie could be "exported" directly to the device (maybe via iTunes) for playback on your big screen TV. Extra-bonus points if recorded material could be burned to a DVD right in the unit.

xjebbx

Nov 29, 2005, 08:24 AM

this is the future of home entertainment, TV's, Computer's, Sound System, all with a nice little apple logo!

hubristol

Nov 29, 2005, 08:37 AM

I seem to be one of the few that's less excited about TiVo style functionality but, then again, I hardly watch TV as is. I guess I'm more interested in seeing how the standard specs, hard drive space and RAM, get improved on.

wPod

Nov 29, 2005, 08:43 AM

cwoloszynski

Nov 29, 2005, 08:45 AM

It seems to me that with all the different formats that video comes to the home, we'll see a collection of external devices (FireWire? or USB2?). The Broadcom chip in the iPod 5G is capable of real-time video encoding as well as decoding, so it would not burden the CPU to use this device.

Making it external would also allow it to be put near the TV and cabled to the PC which, in my house, is about 8 feet away.

It would also allow Apple to sell the functionality to those who want it and are willing to pay for it.

I think the Intel Mini sounds great with a 3.5" HDD so we can store lots. That sounds right to me. Not too big a step for Apple, but a continued series of prodcuts that work well together.

interlard

Nov 29, 2005, 08:47 AM

I'm SO pissed off with TiVo working so poorly with the Mac (and with so many geeks out there willing to write the software for free!!).

It has a slow UI, really dumb "which one should I record?" function and horrible Mac compatibility. I'm tired of having to run the .tivo files through a DRM-stripper under Virtual PC just to watch the stupid TV program on my Treo.

I used to LOVE TiVo, but they've pushed it too far. I say kill the TiVo and liberate the Mac.

rtdunham

Nov 29, 2005, 08:48 AM

Seems to me the proposed media center mini is an iMac sans screen, a means for apple to have a low-end, configurable cpu to compete with comparable windows devices.

that said, if the iMac's form factor is highly regarded for its small footprint, why not create the new media center mini (MCM?) so that it can mount on the VESA wall mount fittings on the back of apple's LCD monitors? That way, if a user chooses to utilize the MCM with one of apple's monitors, they've basically built their own iMac of sorts. The iPod slot (a great idea, imho, compatible with the iMac's general proposition of reducing desk clutter) could be positioned at the top of the MCM, so that it's flush with the top of the LCD screen when the MCM is mounted via VESA, putting the slot in the ideal convenient location.

thoughts?

terry

jvaska

Nov 29, 2005, 08:52 AM

Phasing out the current iMac...dropping the prices of Apple monitors a hair...it's doable.

I want a Mac Mini that is just as good as the iMac (or better) but I want to buy an external flat monitor. If it works with a TV then call it a gold mine.

wilburpan

Nov 29, 2005, 08:53 AM

The upgrades sound nice, but wait a minute! A 3.5" hard drive? No, this is not required in my opinion. This would just make the Mac mini a larger system and I don't want that. Its size is perfect how it is.
Actually, if this is designed to be a device designed to integrate with one's home theater system, then it probably will be placed by the average person by all of their other A/V components, which means that you could easily expand the width to the standard 17" that most A/V components are. So an increase in size wouldn't be all that intolerable.

Now if you were intending to still use the new Mac mini as a desktop computer, then small size would be a desirable thing to keep. But then, you probably wouldn't need all of the extra A/V functions predicted by Think Secret.

firebox

Nov 29, 2005, 08:53 AM

i know i've said this in about 3 different post up till now but here goes again!

- A home recording station, Audio/video of all sorts.
- Record video from vaired sources save to DVD/HD/iPod whatever..
- Amateur/Enthusiast Audio Interface, multipe XLR/Jack/Phono inputs. easy to link up with Logic/Garageband (and many others once it takes off...i guess that would be the day it came out!)
- Controlable using existing remote or possibly via the rumored tablet? (really pushing it now :) ) depending on the fuctionality you require, for actually using in a homestudio, you would obviously use a G5/Powerbook/Mini/Tablet.
- Output Audio over Airport/Optical/Mini jack.....again, multiple outputs.
- Stackable...this was mentioned by someone in a previous post and would really add to the appeal, completly flexable regardless of whether it was in your living room running you house or in the studio recording and processing you music and video...a completely customizable digital hub.

I think you get the jist anyway.... i'm off to change my pants :p

rtdunham

Nov 29, 2005, 08:53 AM

No question, I would replace my iPod earlier than intended, and pick up the mini as my media center.

ditto here.
td

Yvan256

Nov 29, 2005, 08:54 AM

I just bought this thing (http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5834722574&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT&rd=1) on Ebay, so you can be sure Apple will come up with a replacement in january. :rolleyes:

rtdunham

Nov 29, 2005, 08:56 AM

This will most likely be a new product (Mac midi??)

mac midi: sheer genius.
td

Yvan256

Nov 29, 2005, 08:56 AM

Actually, if this is designed to be a device designed to integrate with one's home theater system, then it probably will be placed by the average person by all of their other A/V components, which means that you could easily expand the width to the standard 17" that most A/V components are. So an increase in size wouldn't be all that intolerable.

Prediction (if this thing is true): BYOTV. :D

thunderclap

Nov 29, 2005, 08:56 AM

Expected to be included in the update, other than the move to Intel processor:

• Front Row 2.0
• "TiVo-Killer" DVR application
• Built-In iPod Dock
• Possible move to 3.5" hard drive

I'm really curious about this "TiVo-Killer" app. I currently use the Comcast DVR (which stinks by the way) and was considering TiVo or ReplayTV. If Apple is coming out with something however I might just hold off and see how it compares.

Passante

Nov 29, 2005, 09:15 AM

mckvakk

Nov 29, 2005, 09:17 AM

I hope it gets a FrontRow that supports divx/xvid and has a web interface for controlling..

(i know i sound like a pirate but the good tv shows airs here months/years after the us (except lost where we only are 2 weeks behind), and yes i usually watches the shows when it airs here too :rolleyes: )

As for the size, they can make it bigger, but not bigger than my xbox which it will be replacing

efoto

Nov 29, 2005, 09:18 AM

Assuming those specs are anywhere near accurate (including a large 3.5" drive) then I think this new Mac Mini could be really sweet. I love the idea of these little things in a media setup, but currently they are lacking a bit in a few features I would want to justify hooking it up to my media set.

More HDD space, more syncing/connectivity features, and faster SD ;)

imikem

Nov 29, 2005, 09:22 AM

I'd suggest that the Mac Mini form factor is not the best for a media center box. Being in the middle of a project right now where I am building a custom entertainment center in my basement, I know what would be the best fit for me.

It would be something in the form factor of a DVD player, say a standard 1U (1.75") tall, standard width (about 17.5") to fit in 19" racks (say with mountable rack ears provided), and could be any depth up to about 16". You could fit some pretty keen media hardware in there without worrying much about cooling the thing. It could even function as a replacement for a DVD player itself.

So it would give you TiVo DVR functions, DVD, and be a usable computer to hook up to my big screen TV box. I'd whip out a credit card in a second, and so would some of the IT geeks that work for me.

<edit> just noticed that somebody else also suggested growing the box to the same size as other home theatre components. Great minds thinking alike and all that...

dernhelm

Nov 29, 2005, 09:29 AM

sounds like a cool idea, except i would hate to see the mac min grow larger! a 3.5" drive and a tv tuner would take up a lot of space. and the last time i cracked open the mini there was not much extra space at all!!! i would totally go for it though b/c ive been saving for a mac mini and a tv tuner to make my own mac DVR !!!

I'm not sure that this would even replace the mini line at all. It may be "built on the same chassis" so to speak, but I'm not convinced that Apple would see this as the next evolutionary step in the mini. It may simply be a brand new product. Then again, they did add "Front Row" to the iMac line, so who knows?

MacSlut

Nov 29, 2005, 09:40 AM

I expect it to boot Mac OS X from 512MB of embedded flash memory for fast cold boot times. Not many consumers are willing to wait 1 minute to watch TV/DVD! Additionally it will go into a deep sleep like my iBook does, and return from sleep in under 2 seconds. I like that.

You obviously don't have a TiVo. Try watching one of them boot up. Heck, the splash screen takes longer to display than my Mac does to boot up.

Like a TiVo, there's really no reason for the device to power down or sleep unless the unit was being moved.

puckhead193

Nov 29, 2005, 09:42 AM

I wonder if you can take your shows that you record and put them on your ipod..... then tivo has a run with its money.... That thing must come with a massive hard drive to store all the footage plus your normal itunes photos etc...

cr2sh

Nov 29, 2005, 09:45 AM

Hmm.

Well, we've always been very clear on that. We don't think that televisions and personal computers are going to merge. We think basically you watch television to turn your brain off, and you work on your computer when you want to turn your brain on.

I dunno.

SiliconAddict

Nov 29, 2005, 09:45 AM

It just hit me but, aren't HDMI cables expensive? I remember seeing them going for over $80, I would assume a HDMI breakout box to RCA or S-Video would be pretty expensive. I honestly can't see HDMI in a Mac mini, I don't know maybe Apple will find an inexpensive way to make it happen :D

I can. The future is digital content protection to the display. That can only be done through HDMI. $10 says Leopard will sport this tech (Vista is.) and another $10 says Apple hardware will start moving from DVI to HDMI for this very reason. Well that and the fact that one cable carries not only video but audio as well. Less cables seems to be Apple mantra lately. Bring it on though. My TV is HDMI ready. My 24” Widescreen monitor no so much but HDMI is pin to pin compatable with DVI so no worries. For now.

MacSlut

Nov 29, 2005, 09:49 AM

lopresmb

Nov 29, 2005, 09:49 AM

this is what everyone has been waiting for, now lets see the "media Center PC" done right.

stuBCN75

Nov 29, 2005, 09:51 AM

All sounds very nice BUT .....

I would think it would (if true) be a new product .. the Mac Media / Mac Lounge / Home Mac or something.

I think the mac mini is great but it is a computer and should stay as one. I think if Apple did do a media centre Mac then I think it should fit the following critera; ( these are just my thought so please dont bite my balls off ! )

* It could have a similar form factor / styling to the Mac mini.

* You can switch it on and off like a TV / DVD player etc. but not like a computer. I want to watch the TV or film not wait for it too boot up or shut down.

* When you do switch it one you are presented with a Front Row kind of interface. Something which any home user can use but not OS X. Why ? because a media centre box would live in my lounge not my office.

* Should be as easy to use as an iPod.

* You pop in a DVD it plays the DVD.

* You pop in a music CD it plays it. simple.

* Dock your iPod and up pops a iTune kind of app.

* It can record stuff and play it back but it needs to be as easy to use as any DVD recorder. Copy CD's to the iPod and recored shows etc.

* Maybe it has a DDTV decoder built in. ( i think it would be better to simply use what input source the owner can provide ). And yes it should cope with HDTV too.

* Maybe it can talk to other macs on a network to share photos and music etc.

* It can be controlled by a remote NOT a keyboard or mouse.

Anyway, just my thoughts. I think the main point i am trying to make is that it would live in the lounge and should behave as such. If i want to watch a film or listen to music i just want to switch it on and click play. Nothing more. If i want to use a computer then i will use one. But the lounge is a place for entertainment not IT. Basicly if my mum cant use it, it does not belong sitting next to my TV.

As far as specs go, i dont really care what is inside the box. I dont care what is inside my DVD player. Do you ?

SiliconAddict

Nov 29, 2005, 09:57 AM

stuBCN75

Nov 29, 2005, 10:05 AM

Any device put out by Apple that is Intel based won't boot every time you turn it on. When you hit the power button it will put the system in a low power suspend mode that is so close to being actually turned off you won't even know it. Think sleep mode on laptops. Apple isn’t going to reinvent the wheel when a perfectly viable option is staring them right in the face. That and with a deep sleep mode the system is still technically on so it can turn itself back on to record a show, do some housekeeping, (If you NEVER turn the system off it will have to.) etc.

Sure. I understand what you are saying. I thought the same, sleep mode will probably fine. I am not suggesting Apple reinvent anything in fact the oposite.
Im just thinking that if it does live in your lounge it needs to as accessible as your TV or DVD player. I often switch my TV and DVD player OFF over night to save power. I just think it needs to behave more like a TV than a computer. Thats all.

Hattig

Nov 29, 2005, 10:16 AM

You obviously don't have a TiVo. Try watching one of them boot up. Heck, the splash screen takes longer to display than my Mac does to boot up.

Like a TiVo, there's really no reason for the device to power down or sleep unless the unit was being moved.

Sad really. All those devices and TVs in standby mode. Hundreds of millions of households around the globe wasting 'standby Watts', what's that, ~2GW of power down the drain? Just to save people the hassle of pressing a power button twice a day.

Anyway, just gotta check on all these computers I leave running all the time. Brb. Oh, wait, I left some lights on too!

aegisdesign

Nov 29, 2005, 10:24 AM

Sure. I understand what you are saying. I thought the same, sleep mode will probably fine. I am not suggesting Apple reinvent anything in fact the oposite.
Im just thinking that if it does live in your lounge it needs to as accessible as your TV or DVD player. I often switch my TV and DVD player OFF over night to save power. I just think it needs to behave more like a TV than a computer. Thats all.

The voice of reason. Switching your TV off over night, not just into standby saves a tonne of electricity and to be all tree-hugger on you for a moment, CO2 and other resources. It'll also save you up to £60 a year in electricity bills.

BlizzardBomb

Nov 29, 2005, 10:27 AM

Sounds great. Seems to me as the rebirth of the Cube. I only ask for a few things to place orders:

1) Quiet Mac. If possible, fanless.
2) Large & fast 7.200 rpm hard disk. Large 500GB HD a great bonus.
3) At least TWO independent (no hub-like) FireWire Ports. FireWire 800 a bonus.
4) Audio in/out for microphone, headphones and Apple Pro Speakers.
5) Last but not least, triple booting as Mac, Linux and Windows. Virtual switching between OSes (without hardware rebooting) a great bonus.

So how would you plan on cooling the HD with a fanless computer? It would be even worse than iMacs! And by putting FW 800 and a 500GB 7200rpm HD you are breaking into the Power Macs market. This is just a low/ medium performance machine for people on a budget so all we need is a decent graphics card (hint hint Radeon X300), a nice low power Intel chip to keep it cool and maybe up to 250GBs would do.

Le Big Mac

Nov 29, 2005, 10:32 AM

this is what everyone has been waiting for, now lets see the "media Center PC" done right.

If this rumor is even 75% right, wow!!!

edited: As I read more about the "Tivo-killer" aspects, I'm starting to wonder whether this is a vaporware rumor, designed to force Tivo back to the table. Tivo obviously wanted too much for the company. And then when Apple told them to step off, they antagonized them with the video iPod transfers, for PCs only.

That said, I still think Apple will bring something to market this way--it makes too much sense given their current marketing approach.

Fender2112

Nov 29, 2005, 10:34 AM

ill see your Intel Mac Mini rumor, and raise you two Intel PB rumors, and 3.0 Ghz G5 Rumor.
I'm all in.:D

glucero

Nov 29, 2005, 10:36 AM

I agree with you, stuBNC75.

I'm hoping it's actually more of a turnkey device that just plugs into my home entertainment setup. I really like my Tivo other than the fact that their coolest Home Media technologies don't work with the Mac. If the new Mac mini can do everything my Tivo does but include Mac support, HD, and play dvd's, that's all I think it needs to do to be successful. It shouldn't be a computer in the living room but a seamless home media device.

darh

Nov 29, 2005, 10:39 AM

iHome anyone? :p

Could it be a heavily delayed iHome from the fake just before last years san Francisco expo:rolleyes:

iHome (http://guides.macrumors.com/Gallery_of_Apple_Mockups_and_Fake_Products#iHome)

Toadinthehole

Nov 29, 2005, 10:47 AM

<flame retardant suit on>

Ah mr Cube we have been expecting you, been anywhere nice?

think about the current mac mini form factor, add in a desktop HDD and a more elaborate cooling solution for the intel cpu and as the song goes "the only way is up"

</flame retardant suit off>

skellener

Nov 29, 2005, 11:00 AM

DVR capability? I think not! Why jeopardize Apple's brand new "pay for TV" model in the iTunes Music Store? Why give people the ability to record for free what they can pay $2 for every week? Apple DVR software ain't gonna happen!

Plenty of third parties to offer it though.

mslinklater

Nov 29, 2005, 11:02 AM

It's the perfect move. The current Mini lacks the grunt to play back HD video without dropping frames. If a new Mini sported enough CPU power to play back HD and stream music/video/photos over Airport Extreme then I'm in. It'll basically beat XBox Media Center at its own game. My hopw would be for the digital tuner PVR thing to be an external addon that could attach to any Mac. So I'd plug the PVR dongle into my PM and use the Mini purely as a streaming data client to my TV. All that along with having the usual Mac desktop on my TV would be very nice indeed.

flashnow

Nov 29, 2005, 11:07 AM

A fast mac with a decent graphics card and the ability to run multiple OSes opens this "mini" up for all sorts of gaming options: boot into Windows, insert Battlefield2 and frag away! My call is that this WILL end up as a super console, supporting movies, music, games - much like the the Xbox 360 or upcoming PS3. Steve's just not announcing it yet, just like he didn't announce the Mini as a media centre a year ago.

Go Apple.

Chaszmyr

Nov 29, 2005, 11:11 AM

Give this thing HD recording capability and iTunes streaming control (from my Power Mac via Airport Express), and I'm in. Like Flint.

HD recording capabilities would be very unlikely. Apple is probably going to want to use h.264, and even a G5 Quad can't encode HD h.264 in real time. Furthermore, there's no way your airport express would be able to sufficiently stream HD video.

iDave

Nov 29, 2005, 11:15 AM

Would this Mac mini/DVR thing somehow work with cable, or is it only for over the air broadcasts? Somehow I can't imagine this working with my cable service which requires an addressable programable cable box to block/allow certain channels with a built-in HDTV tuner. So, will this Mac be worthless to most of the television viewing audience who currently have cable TV? Dunno.

YunusEmre

Nov 29, 2005, 11:15 AM

you mean like the iPod replaced the diskman? no more monopolies? hehe, you mean better monopolies ;)

Guys Tivo does not have a monopoly on DVRs. There are other DVRs out there.

As for Mac Mini acting as a DVR, I do not see it. You talk about paying Tivo subscription. So who would pay for the program guide on the Mac Mini, Apple? You'd have to pay it to one of two sources of TV programme guides, TV Guide or Tribune. There is more to a DVR than hard disk and a few smartly implemented user interfaces. I am not saying Apple cannot pull it off, but I am saying that an entery point for a former MS Windows users will not be a DVR like Mac. It will be a plain, functional no virus etc nonsense kind of Mac. I'll have my Mc Mini but I'll keep my Tivo too ;)

barbaloot

Nov 29, 2005, 11:18 AM

I will buy it if it records in HD...

iDave

Nov 29, 2005, 11:22 AM

As for Mac Mini acting as a DVR, I do not see it. You talk about paying Tivo subscription. So who would pay for the program guide on the Mac Mini, Apple? You'd have to pay it to one of two sources of TV programme guides, TV Guide or Tribune. There is more to a DVR than hard disk and a few smartly implemented user interfaces...
EyeTV works fine with the free TitanTV website for programming recordings.

network23

Nov 29, 2005, 11:25 AM

Has anyone suggested this new item might be in some kind of docking formfactor for the mini? It could be an add-on for the mini (or work only with an updated mini to be announced at the same time) that would accept the mini and make it more compatible with current AV equipment.

Geronimo

Nov 29, 2005, 11:30 AM

Apologies all around if someone has already posted this in the 7 pages of responses that I didn't read through completely. If Apple does include Tivo-like functions in the Mac mini, that service won't be free for life. They will rightly want to charge for it. I think they would bundle that service in with their existing .Mac suite of services. Think about it, doesn't that sound exactly like what Apple would do? They're always about synergy, about tying their existing products together into a smooth, beautiful package. Plus, this theory dovetails nicely with a rumor I read recently that Apple will soon totally revamp .Mac.

YunusEmre

Nov 29, 2005, 11:32 AM

EyeTV works fine with the free TitanTV website for programming recordings.

So EyeTV will act as a DVR on a Mac Mini? You are banking on the mini having Cable/RF & composite/S-Video inputs (and comply with all FCC rules on such devices) and be able to control your Sat/Cable box? How will EyeTV control my Digital Cable box (or a Sattellite box)?

I suspect if you are well clued you can set up your mini as a DVR, but it will not be a replacement for a Tivo. For that it needs to be settop box, not a personal computer. When IPTV is here, any box with bradband and a hard disk can claim to be a DVR/PVR but not before that.

dongmin

Nov 29, 2005, 11:35 AM

I will buy it if it records in HD...You can almost certainly bet that it won't. Whatever low-end Pentium M Apple puts into the Mini won't be able to do real-time H.264 encoding at HD (if you mean 1080i). This would only be possible if Apple added a separate hardware encoder, which seems unlikely given the low-cost nature of the Mini.

The Mini will NOT be the fantasy media center that everyone's dreaming of. Look at the video options at the iTMS for example: only 320x240. Most likely the DVR capabilities, if the rumor is to be believed, will be an add-on feature, as was originally the case with Airport and BT. You might even be required to have a .Mac membership to use the programming service. Frontrow and remote will probably also be extra, although they're most likely to sell a DVR+FrontRow+remote bundle. Also, all recorded videos will be DRMed and you'll be restricted in how you transport the videos.

AidenShaw

Nov 29, 2005, 11:37 AM

HD recording capabilities would be very unlikely. Apple is probably going to want to use h.264, and even a G5 Quad can't encode HD h.264 in real time. Furthermore, there's no way your airport express would be able to sufficiently stream HD video.
http://www.ati.com/technology/H264.html
http://www.9thtee.com/insidetivo.htm

An inexpensive TiVo does real-time MPEG-2 compression while having only a 50 MHz PowerPC CPU.

Any reasonable HD recorder will use dedicated silicon for the HD codec, or perhaps offload to the graphics card (although that might make watching while recording a problem). Volume would push the price of these specialized chips down to affordable levels - the chips are much faster (at encoding), and much simpler and cheaper than a general-purpose CPU.

Trying to say what a small set-top box can do based on the size and capabilities of a quad CPU PowerMac is myopic - different rules apply.

iDave

Nov 29, 2005, 11:43 AM

So EyeTV will act as a DVR on a Mac Mini? You are banking on the mini having Cable/RF & composite/S-Video inputs (and comply with all FCC rules on such devices) and be able to control your Sat/Cable box? How will EyeTV control my Digital Cable box (or a Sattellite box)?

I suspect if you are well clued you can set up your mini as a DVR, but it will not be a replacement for a Tivo. For that it needs to be settop box, not a personal computer. When IPTV is here, any box with bradband and a hard disk can claim to be a DVR/PVR but not before that.
Never mind, you know a lot more about it than I do. I was just commenting that TitanTV (free) currently works with EyeTV for programming recordings. I don't understand the questions you ask.

In a previous question, I asked how this rumored new device could possibly work with my cable service (including premium channels and HDTV). I doubt it could.

Le Big Mac

Nov 29, 2005, 11:44 AM

gugy

Nov 29, 2005, 11:44 AM

I hope TS is right!
But lately they have been somewhat unreliable. I have to say they still the most accurate out there
That would be so cool. I am looking forward to such a device so i can store all my music and videos in my entertainment center.
Plus on top of that have a Mac to check email and surf the net everything connected would be really nice.
Now, one piece of the puzzle that might come alongside the new mac Mini would be a larger monitor. I do expect to see Apple roll out a 40"+ Cinema Display at MWSF if they announce the Mini there. That would make perfect sense and would be a great addition to the family.
Apple will dominate the media center if all of this becomes reality.:eek:

Le Big Mac

Nov 29, 2005, 11:45 AM

As for Mac Mini acting as a DVR, I do not see it. You talk about paying Tivo subscription. So who would pay for the program guide on the Mac Mini, Apple? You'd have to pay it to one of two sources of TV programme guides, TV Guide or Tribune.

What's to say Apple can't license the program guide? They set up the box to work with the service. You can use it or not, and pay the money or not. Get three months free, after that you can use it as a media center with or without the Tivo-like features. Still pretty useful even if it's not a DVR.

gugy

Nov 29, 2005, 11:52 AM

I wonder if that means Itunes 7 will evolve into DVR capabilities. So in the software you will be able to schedule to record shows on TV. that makes sense to use itunes to do that. Maybe a new application could come out but it seems that Itunes could benefit from that

Epicurus

Nov 29, 2005, 11:55 AM

How about two form factors? One wide and thin for the A/V rack. One boxy and stout (like the mini) for the desktop?

I can see a smaller, thinner mini for the desktop, taking the place the current mini occupies as the cheapest new Mac you can buy. Then a new form factor for the living room shows up, slightly larger than the old mini (thanks to a full featured TV in/out card, bigger hard drive, etc.). If Apple goes for something along the lines of the Asteroid rumors and adds features for Garageband as well as true DVR inputs, the form factor will need major revisions (not to mention if they try to integrate an iPod dock). As long as the hard drive and ram are more easily upgradable, I'll be happy.

Adding DVR inputs does not mean Apple has to go directly to a TiVo-like box. By leaving out the automatic recording software, they could leave the door open for non-DRM recording just as if you bought an appropriately equipped PowerMac. If they just leave room for one full size PCI card, this would still be a great buy. :D

MacinDoc

Nov 29, 2005, 12:00 PM

ok... so now we have reports of intel ibooks, powerbooks, imacs, and mac minis. this is seeming sort of "nostradamus" sounding. :cool:
You mean that if someone makes enough predictions, chances are that at least one will turn out to be correct?

I agree, it seems unlikely that ALL of these products will be introduced so far ahead of schedule...

I can see one intel-based product being introduced in January, but three?

And Think Secret is usually a reliable source.

As some others, I'm wondering if Apple is seeding rumors to try to identify leaks...

rt_brained

Nov 29, 2005, 12:02 PM

Even if they maintained the current form factor with the 2.5" HD, I wouldn't mind the ability to stack external HDs later.

bommai

Nov 29, 2005, 12:09 PM

Check out HP's entertainment center.

http://www.shopping.hp.com/webapp/shopping/product_detail.do?landing=computers&category=desktops%2Fhp_dec%2Fz500_series&catLevel=4&storeName=computer_store&subcat1=rts&product_code=EG651AA%23ABA

It does everything I want except that it runs the Windows Media Center Edition. That alone has dissuaded me from getting it. Other than that, it is the perfect media center. It is built just like a home theater component and it has component video outputs to hook up to my older rear project HD-ready TV. It pauses live TV just like Tivo does. It has two analog tuners and one HD-ATSC tuner. It also has DVI output in addition to component video. It also has wired router and wireless builtin. It also has gigabit ethernet, firewire, USB, etc. It has media card reader built into the front. It has a context sensitive LCD display in the front. It also has a dual-layer DVR burner. All in all, a great product for a decent price (a little too expensive perhaps), crippled by one thing - Windows. If Apple can just port their OS to this hardware, I am sure they will sell it to me :)

I just bought a Sony HD-DVR (DHG-HDD250) for $499 from Best Buy and if this is true, I might return it back to Best Buy. I also just heard that Sony has discontinued this product even though they just introduced it a few months ago. It works great though. It gets the program guide through TVGuide hosted by one of the local analog channels.

Whoever says a no-fee DVR is not possible is mistaken. The HP media center and all PC based DVRs and the Sony, Mitsubishi, Panasonic and LG DVRs allow for free program guides because these companies get their money by selling the hardware. Tivo makes money selling the service and that will be their ultimate undoing. I don't want one more monthly subscription.

iGary

Nov 29, 2005, 12:13 PM

Well I didn't run through this whole shaboo, but I assume an Intel-ready OS with Rosetta would ship with this "thing?"

mdavey

Nov 29, 2005, 12:14 PM

the only way is up

Actually, I think that the only way is multiple boxes. Perhaps an ultra-thin box in DVD form factor with Airport link (iHome?) to a combined Airport base-station and NAS box.

Some advantages of this topology:
* Most people don't have Ethernet available in their living room
* The base-station could stream to multiple iHome units, one for each TV (more iHome sales)
* Opportunity to offer an 'ultimate' version of the base-station with RAID and terabytes of storage at a premium price
* Opportunity to sell squeeze-box style audio-only receivers (Mac nano?) as additional revenue stream

So, this new Mac iHome wouldn't have a local hard-disk, just Flash storage.

w00master

Nov 29, 2005, 12:18 PM

That sounds complicated. I bet this "DVR" functionality simply consists of a "Record Now" function that records an incoming unencrypted digital signal using real time H.264 encoding via some dedicated chip. Completely dumb like our old VCRs. Why spend time on broadcast TV when the future is video-on-demand?

I agree that the future is VOD. HOWEVER, the rumour did state DVR and "tivo-killer" functionality for the new mac mini which means recording broadcast television. So if this new DVR mac mini is true, then for it to record HD television it *must* have cablecard functionality. If not, you'll be stuck with recording over-the-air HD stuff.

w00master

jakemd

Nov 29, 2005, 12:29 PM

I currently have dish network dvr. Its great for the sheer fact that it will search the guide and record all the programs that are shown for a preticular search query. It also allows dual input from the dish so you can watch live tv while you record from another channel. The only problem is that the HD is small. Unlike TiVo, you can skip commercials.

You can however watch in component and dolby digital. My hope is that the Mac Mini becomes an addition rather then a standalone. The ability to work with other devices should be a must.
I love having 300+ channels. So If the mini was able to have component input for recording, and output of HD plus optical audio, that would be great.
I love the iTunes service, but I know that they won't be rolling out "Apple TV" soon, so I need to keep my ESPN and FoxNews.

I think it should be an inbetween box to handle media that you have stored, plus the abliltiy to record from sorces. Cable card functionality might be good, if the right satellite/cable services are supported.

Maybe since they have a working relationship with cingular (whose parent is SBC) Sbc has a working relationship with dish network, so the ability to put dish acces card functionality could be easy.......but, I'm dreamin.

hyperpasta

Nov 29, 2005, 12:41 PM

Why would Apple let you record TV shows... when they're already selling them for $2 a pop? I know they did this with the iTunes MS - but that's a different model. Maybe they'll say that $2 downloads were just a pilot program, and is being phased out.

As for the form factor, the new one might look good as a "slim" model: half as tall but twice as wide. Maybe tweaked design. This would look better with other stereo components/game systems.

A $499 price is an absolute must, but at $399 this would really fly off the shelves. Maybe a price drop before the year's end?

How about this launching lineup:

1.6GHz Intel X1 (aka Yonah)
64MB of Video RAM
512MB of RAM
Apple TV Tuner Card Slot, TV Tuner for your Region
AirPort Extreme
iLife 06, iWork 06, and Front Row 2.0

~Shard~

Nov 29, 2005, 12:43 PM

Wow, yet another rumor for MWSF - hope Steve is planning an extra-long keynote to reveal all of these rumored machines! Intel Mac mini digital hubs, Intel iBooks, Intel PowerBooks, Intel iMacs... ;) Oh, and don't forget the displays, which will be updated in the very near future as well!

I think this device would be excellent. I have been considering picking up something like an EyeTV for a little while now, but if this rumored product did in fact exist, I would probably consider it instead.

January is going to be a fun "technology month" for me - I'll be hitting the CES in Vegas the first week of January, and then will be coming home to Steve's keynote and MWSF! I may have to warm up my credit card... :cool:

iGary

Nov 29, 2005, 12:44 PM

liketom

Nov 29, 2005, 12:50 PM

I want a 35-inch Display.

Screw Intel.
why that 30" display you got there not good anymore :D

~Shard~

Nov 29, 2005, 12:51 PM

I want a 35-inch Display.

Don't forget HDMI... ;) Just get 2 of them and see if that Quadro FX 4500 can drive them both at max resolution... :eek:

LCD prices are decreasing, and sizes are increasing - I wouldn't put it out of the realm of possibility.

Plus, we know Apple will be releasing new displays soon, since the new 20" iMac has a better display in it than the Apple 20" display itself. :cool:

Screw Intel.

You know, I'd be worried if you didn't end your post with this. :cool:

iGary

Nov 29, 2005, 12:53 PM

Screw Intel

You know, I'd be worried if you didn't end your post with this. :cool:

I think I just threw up in my mouth a little™, too.

If they made a 35-inch display, I'd buy it day one. :cool:

Seriously.

cait-sith

Nov 29, 2005, 12:56 PM

rtdunham

Nov 29, 2005, 01:00 PM

there are numerous reports that the original mac mini was intended to include some of this media-center functionality, and that for various reasons several features were omitted.

does it make any sense that plans already underway before the mini's release, would only see light of day AFTER this year's holiday season, instead of before?

news articles after thanksgiving noted that electronics dominated sales on "black friday".

are there any thoeries to explain why the product would be delayed til winter announcement? how would the tivo negotiations fit into this scenario? what was apple seeking to achieve with tivo? if those negotiations have failed for good, what would apple's move(s) be to achieve its goals without tivo? and if the rumors are a ploy to bring tivo back to the table, then again--what is it exactly apple's trying to do with tivo?

for all the hardware/software rumors, are there no reports to thoroughly explore apple's objectives with tivo? understanding that seems instrumental in analyzing these current hardware rumors.

peace
terry

Photorun

Nov 29, 2005, 01:08 PM

Damn it! I should have posted this as a rumor back when I thought of it when the mini was first released, though nobody have beleived me. :mad:

Oh well, hope it's true. There's been talk of Apple having a "set top" device since 1999, it's like convergence... only some six years later.

pgwalsh

Nov 29, 2005, 01:13 PM

I would buy one the second it came out. Then I'd sell the EyeTV 500, and wireless connect it to my PowerMac for TV show storage. That would be great. If they added TV input HDTV to the iMac, that would be great.. It's like the new iMac is almost there, but not quite.. Seems like a silly oversight or cost cutting measure.

You have a remote, but you can do everthing except watch TV. WTF c'mon Apple..

Multimedia

Nov 29, 2005, 01:14 PM

With faster and up to 500 GB inside, that would be a killer alternative to Tivo. :p 2006 will be a very interesting year of releases. :)

Bubbasteve

Nov 29, 2005, 01:14 PM

All I know is when it is first released I'll tell myself that it's unnecessary but the more I think about it the more I'll want it... damn you Apple

yoak

Nov 29, 2005, 01:15 PM

New Mac Mini..... cool, I think

Kind of getting tired of the speculation and rumors though.....

But then again I heard it on the internet so it must be true :rolleyes:

So why spend time on macrumors?;)

LimeiBook86

Nov 29, 2005, 01:17 PM

...may have to warm up my credit card... :cool:
I'd warm mine up but, I think it's been frozen by the bank! ;) I guess I'll start saving up now, this'll be one nice machine when/if it comes out :)

All HDMI is is DVI + digital audio. It is not superior to DVI, just more convenient. It's ideal for TVs, but not computers which have separate sound cards.
Yeah I know this and was scratching my head why everyone was up in arms about HDMI on a Mac Mini. Just have the standard DVI to S-Video/Composite (Maybe componenet eventually) and everyone will be happy. No need for HDMI yet, ok so it's one cable with audio and video in a neat package but, a lot of people don't have HDMI, let alone DVI on their TV sets...I know I certainly don't! S-Video or composite with an optional component adapter for HDTVs would be fine :D

gugy

Nov 29, 2005, 01:27 PM

I need to buy Apple stock.
With the amount of cool stuff they are releasing it's sure bet it will only go up.
If this mac mini is true, this will be the last 12 months I spent the most money buying their hardware in my entire life. I really hope it's true. For someboby who has a good entertainment center set up it would be a dream come true.

jiv3turkey748

Nov 29, 2005, 01:40 PM

that would be geat to have a medis mac they will sell tons of these

Superdrive

Nov 29, 2005, 01:45 PM

Fine tune this to a little more clear plastic, a little more white and change the guts. I'd buy one day one.

ccrandall77

Nov 29, 2005, 01:46 PM

While I'll probably be first in line to buy this, I like my idea of having a HTPC add-on to the mini better than cramming it all in to the Mini.

1.) I think it'll probably increase size. I like the size of the Mini as it is now if I were to use it strictly as a computer.

2.) I think it'll probably increase the cost. Kinda defeats the purpose of having and entry-level Mac computer if the price goes much over $699.

3.) I think it'll end up being a bit of a compromise. Will they be able to add HD recording, 5.1/7.1 audio, etc. and still keep it in the Mini's overall formfactor?

I think they'll probably go with a 250GB 2.5" drive and add TV-in/out... just like adding an EyeTV into the Mini. That'll definitely be nice, but not exactly what I'd want.

I think for a HTPC to be really useful it'd need:

1.) Fat HDD... 250GB is nice, but 500GB is much better
2.) HD recording capability (probably necessitating a 500GB internal drive)
3.) 5.1/7.1 audio-out
4.) 2-way cable card (optional)
5.) HD DVD burner (probably won't happen til there's a standard)
6.) Extra USB2 and Firewire ports compared to the Mini
7.) An IR or bluetooth receiver + remote
8.) Front Row on steroids
9.) Easy way to compress HD, DVDs, etc. for the iPod and other portable players
10.) A faster CPU that can handle #9

I'd like to see maybe 1 or 2 different models come out that stack under the Mini like the MiniMate or LaCie Mini Companion. This would allow the Mini to stay the Mini and have a faster CPU, larger drive, etc. without compromising the formfactor. And it doesn't force the HTPC options and cost on you if you just want a small, entry-level Mac.

I think the add-on could then have one model with the TV-in/out, 5.1/7.1 audio, IR, more ports, second HDD, and a software bundle. The higher-end model could maybe include a BluRay/HD-DVD burner and the cable-card.

That higher-end model would then allow someone who has the $$$ to replace ALL of their home entertainment components including their cable box. Pair with with a LCD/Plasma wall mount, and you could really have an awesome home theater system that has a negligible footprint (and probably be a little easier on the electricity).

TVGenius

Nov 29, 2005, 01:47 PM

No DTV/ATSC/HD, forget it. Enough crap that will be trash in two years is on the market already.

Peace

Nov 29, 2005, 01:53 PM

Superdrive

Nov 29, 2005, 02:16 PM

Interesting tidbit about elgato..I'm under the NDA but don't think this breaks it.

I'm running the Dev kit..

Emailed elgato about certain drivers for their systems and he told me they would have drivers ready to go as soon as the Intels shipped.

I dont see Apple buying elgato based on this..

But...speculation is fun ain't it? :)

Sounds like they need to borrow your Dev Kit to get those drivers built.

Anyone remember the iMacs back in the day when they had iMac and iMac DV? What is stopping Apple from creating Mac Mini and Mac Mini HT? We have PowerBooks that share the same name but different forms, why not the same for the Mini?

Frobozz

Nov 29, 2005, 02:16 PM

Whoever says a no-fee DVR is not possible is mistaken. The HP media center and all PC based DVRs and the Sony, Mitsubishi, Panasonic and LG DVRs allow for free program guides because these companies get their money by selling the hardware. Tivo makes money selling the service and that will be their ultimate undoing. I don't want one more monthly subscription.

I argue the opposite. A low entry price with smaller payments over time is easier to sell volume. It works like this:

I need to make $500 on a customer. For aguement's sake I have 2 options:

A) Ask them for $50 now and $13 a month for ~35 months.
B) Ask them for $500 now and nothing per month.

The difference in business model is that in order for company B to make more than their $500 on the person, they must introduce some new hardware to sell them. The person then plunks down another $500. For company A to make more than their $500, they just need to keep the customer longer.

Either model is valid and has advantages and disadvantages. Things like inflation, competition, market conditions, upgrades, etc. all factor in. But one thing you can't argue: $50 is less than $500, and a lot of consumers think about that price point because $13 a month isn't that much money.

Frobozz

Nov 29, 2005, 02:31 PM

I don't understand this "why would Apple let you save TV shows when they want you to buy them for 2$"?

Why does Apple let you import CDs you buy when they sell music on the iTunes store?

I think iTunes is a convenience and lots of people will still buy video from iTunes even though they may be able to record it on their own TV -- because some people may want the show now, or they may have missed recording the show, etc.

You can't stop people from wanting to record TV shows rather than buy them. People will do what they want. It seems intelligent to give customers some options for how they get their content.

Agreed. And I think it makes sense for them to include an essentially "freebie" solution like a DVR and tack on an integrated music and movie purchasing program (iTunes.)

They don't have to drop one for the other, as you point out. They compliment each other. Look at Digital Cable. I have HBO on demand (comes with HBO), the many HBO "linear" channels, and Movies on Demand (for-pay viewing.) None really interfere with each other, despite it all being an antique view of the video world. Nothing should be linear anymore.

gugy

Nov 29, 2005, 02:33 PM

$13 is not a lot of money but if you add all the other expenses like cable, internet, web hosting, .mac, electricity, phone, cell phones, etc. then the last thing you want is another subscription service.

erroneous

Nov 29, 2005, 02:36 PM

but you can (last time I checked) only have one EyeTV unit plugged in at a time. No multiple tuners. I think that's a software limitation.

I asked them about this in September last year, and they said:

Currently, the EyeTV software partially supports multiple units. You can hook up two of any EyeTV device, and see Live TV from both simultaneously. Each type of EyeTV device will have its own channel list.

EyeTV will grab the first available unit to record, or you can click on an Live TV window and then start recording. EyeTV cannot choose which unit to record to on a per-recording basis, but that will come in the future.

So, using multiple units is an unofficial feature that works, but is still being finalized.

Of course, I've never tried it.

bommai

Nov 29, 2005, 02:39 PM

Interesting tidbit about elgato..I'm under the NDA but don't think this breaks it.

I'm running the Dev kit..

Emailed elgato about certain drivers for their systems and he told me they would have drivers ready to go as soon as the Intels shipped.

I dont see Apple buying elgato based on this..

But...speculation is fun ain't it? :)

To add some spice to this rumor - a couple of months ago, it was announced that Elgato's former CEO now runs Apple Germany. I am sure there is some tie in. Elgato (German based) makes products just for the Mac and I have heard they are pretty good. I am almost ready to buy an eyeTV 500, but want to wait until January to see if anything changes!!

mdavey

Nov 29, 2005, 03:10 PM

Why would Apple let you record TV shows

Because it is a different business model. To record a TV show you have to wait for it to be broadcast then record it and store it forever. The buesiness model that people are suggesting in this thread is a video on demand (or nearly on demand) model where Apple will offer a huge catalogue of TV material for you to select from, download and watch whenever you want.

Importantly, Apple could be in the position of offering content before it is broadcast and offering other content many years after it was last broadcast. They might even be able to strike deals with copyright owners allowing them to remaster content so you can watch, say, the original series of StarTrek in high definition.

hyperpasta

Nov 29, 2005, 03:11 PM

I don't understand this "why would Apple let you save TV shows when they want you to buy them for 2$"?

Why does Apple let you import CDs you buy when they sell music on the iTunes store?

Here's why. Let's say I want to get CD X onto my iPod. If I already own CD X, which most people don't, I import it. Otherwise, I get it from ABC.

But let's say I want to get ABC Show X onto my iPod. Most people, including myself, get ABC. But it's hard to get it onto my iPod, so I pay for my show again. If I could get it easily onto my iPod without having to buy it again, say through the new Mac mini, then there's absolutely no case for the iTVideoStore.

Think about it a bit.

I'm not saying it won't happen, but I'm saying that there IS a conflict there that needs to be resolved. Maybe we'll just see a full selection of TV shows instead.

hyperpasta

Nov 29, 2005, 03:12 PM

Because it is a different business model. To record a TV show you have to wait for it to be broadcast then record it and store it forever. The buesiness model that people are suggesting in this thread is a video on demand (or nearly on demand) model where Apple will offer a huge catalogue of TV material for you to select from, download and watch whenever you want.

Importantly, Apple could be in the position of offering content before it is broadcast and offering other content many years after it was last broadcast. They might even be able to strike deals with copyright owners allowing them to remaster content so you can watch, say, the original series of StarTrek in high definition.

I dn't understand. Are you agreeing or disagreeing?
:D

mdavey

Nov 29, 2005, 03:20 PM

I dn't understand. Are you agreeing or disagreeing?
:D

Um?

I am saying that Apple would allow you to record TV because that would have negligable impact on their business model. Just as with music, much of the profit will come from being able to offer a huge back-catalogue and charging the same price for them as new-releases - such as last night's episode of Lost (which you missed because your sister called 5 minutes before it started and chatted with you for over an hour).

hyperpasta

Nov 29, 2005, 03:25 PM

Um?

I am saying that Apple would allow you to record TV because that would have negligable impact on their business model. Just as with music, much of the profit will come from being able to offer a huge back-catalogue and charging the same price for them as new-releases - such as last night's episode of Lost (which you missed because your sister called 5 minutes before it started and chatted with you for over an hour).

Sorry I didn't understand.

While your back catalog point is valid, if someone had two buttons that said "Record Lost Tonight for Free" and "Buy Lost Tomorrow for $2", then most everyone would choose to record. I don't mean to start a flamewar here, I'ts just my opinion. But I bet Apple has something up their sleeves that we don't know a bout- the pieces don't quite connect.

Peace

Nov 29, 2005, 03:33 PM

Really can't see the type of modeling folks are talkin about here.
IMHO the Mini's gonna be mainly for playing content from the storage in it.
Video On Demand is a completely different thing..Gonna need HUGE bandwidth for that and it's just getting off the ground with comcast et.al..
My satellite receiver has a DVR and I can record anything being "currently" broadcast or I can set up a timer to record a show in the future.Nothing allows me to record anything from the past...e.g. VOD for television..

Now they may start VOD for movies.Being able to watch any movie anytime.But that model would incur a "pay-per-view" scenerio.

Nope..Not gonna happen..

MacMini with a 3.5in. 250gig HD for storing movies and the like connected via cable to your SVideo/DVI in on the TV or LCD or HDTV.
Going wireless with the .11g or even the newer 11.n is gonna task the network capabilities built into OSX

Now if the Mini has SVideo/DVI and Optical IN with built in MPEG-2 decoding THAT's a different story, and would knock elgato and TIVO out of the Mac market.

aussie_geek

Nov 29, 2005, 03:53 PM

Originally Posted by pkscout
but you can (last time I checked) only have one EyeTV unit plugged in at a time. No multiple tuners. I think that's a software limitation.I think those are my biggies. Yes, EyeTV does #2 already, but you can (last time I checked) only have one EyeTV unit plugged in at a time. No multiple tuners. I think that's a software limitation.

Nope - I have an eyetv 410 and an eyetv wonder plugged in simultaneously. You can watch and record 2 separate shows. I actually use mine for TV and xbox. Works fine.

A G5 is required though - I tried it on my PowerBook... It really struggled and got quite hot.

aussie_geek

greenstork

Nov 29, 2005, 03:57 PM

Don't you all think that Apple has to be introducing a subscription service, for the purpose of maintaining up-to-the-minute TV program guides.

Apple has never shied away from charging as much as possible for its superior products. Their M.O. is to distinguish themselves from the competition, charge way more for the hardware, and slightly less for the content. That said, I'll bet that if this rumor is true, they'll roll out a $5-10 per month subscription service for TiVo like features like recording an entire season of a show, or a detailed program guide.

bommai

Nov 29, 2005, 04:00 PM

Sorry I didn't understand.

While your back catalog point is valid, if someone had two buttons that said "Record Lost Tonight for Free" and "Buy Lost Tomorrow for $2", then most everyone would choose to record. I don't mean to start a flamewar here, I'ts just my opinion. But I bet Apple has something up their sleeves that we don't know a bout- the pieces don't quite connect.

May be their whole pay model is for iPod and portability. If you use the DVR feature, the program is stuck in the DVR and you cannot transfer. How about that?

mandoman

Nov 29, 2005, 04:07 PM

Yet another MWSF approaching and the inevitable
iHome rumor. All's I can say is, don't get your hopes up.

I believe an upgraded intel mini is coming, but
don't expect anything major besides maybe front
row support and digital audio output. Maybe an apple branded
optional dvi to hdmi cable for $79 announced with it. That's it, nothing
to see here, move along. Built in ipod dock? ICK! Ruins
the beautiful mini form factor.

No Apple branded PVR. Apple wants to sell on demand video.
I'm guessing the 'tivo-killer' rumor was started by
apple to get the TV networks to play ball.

Don't you think the engineering effort just transitioning
to Intel in time for MWSF is enough as it is without throwing
in a bunch of extra features?

I sure hope I am wrong though, I would be second in line
to buy an apple htpc - after the guy with the car barring the doors to
the apple store with the shotgun, I don't want my head blown
off trying to be first in line.

If the TV networks don't step up and provide content
to apple, than an apple branded pvr accessory might come
to fruition eventually. Actually, it'll just be El Gato designed
stuff with Apple logo/marketing. Need that content to sell more video ipods!!!

MWSF will see intel mini's and ibooks (90nm pentium m, not yonah), ilife06 and
iWork06 w/Spreadsheet app.

2nyRiggz

Nov 29, 2005, 04:08 PM

this is nice, i would get one in a heartbeat if it is true.

Bless

hyperpasta

Nov 29, 2005, 04:10 PM

May be their whole pay model is for iPod and portability. If you use the DVR feature, the program is stuck in the DVR and you cannot transfer. How about that?

That would work. But you see what I mean? Something like this will happen if both are to coexist.

Kirbdog

Nov 29, 2005, 04:18 PM

I was considering a new iMac with a EyeTV box in spring when I get done school. This mac mini sounds like it could be alot cheaper. I would really like to integrate my television and computer, I don't need or want a ton of redundant stuff anymore. Why buy a stand alone DVD player, TV, PVR and stereo when I can integreat it all into one computer and large monitor combo. It would be cheaper and I could get much more out of it.

I don't know if this is feasible but it is what I would like to see. Many companies have tried but no one has cracked it yet. Remember Sony WebTV?

Doozy

Nov 29, 2005, 04:29 PM

This is great news. I love my tivo but, I would give it up in a heart beat if apple can do a better job. I don't get all that tivo offers using the direct tv offering anyway. Although, if the mac mini can't record more than one program at a time I will not buy.

I wouldn't mind if the mini was a little bit bigger to acomadate a larger drive.

~Shard~

Nov 29, 2005, 04:35 PM

I'd warm mine up but, I think it's been frozen by the bank! ;)

Ah, I see - mine's just been frozen by winter. :D

Daveway

Nov 29, 2005, 04:42 PM

http://www.moviepoopshoot.com/bottom/images/2003/june25/grinch.jpg
My face while reading THAT article.

savar

Nov 29, 2005, 04:51 PM

No Apple branded PVR. Apple wants to sell on demand video.
I'm guessing the 'tivo-killer' rumor was started by
apple to get the TV networks to play ball.

Everybody keeps saying: Apple can't sell a DVR, they want to sell video on demand.

???

Can we please all step back a second here...Apple doesn't want to sell videos. They don't want to sell music either. They want to sell iPods! If this HTPC stuff works, they'll also have a way to push more mac minis.

I would imagine the stuff on iTunes is encoded from original material, so the quality is much higher than recording a broadcast signal.

devman

Nov 29, 2005, 05:19 PM

I'd warm mine up but, I think it's been frozen by the bank! ;) I guess I'll start saving up now, this'll be one nice machine when/if it comes out :)

Yeah I know this and was scratching my head why everyone was up in arms about HDMI on a Mac Mini. Just have the standard DVI to S-Video/Composite (Maybe componenet eventually) and everyone will be happy. No need for HDMI yet, ok so it's one cable with audio and video in a neat package but, a lot of people don't have HDMI, let alone DVI on their TV sets...I know I certainly don't! S-Video or composite with an optional component adapter for HDTVs would be fine :D

Cool. I thought the reason though was that HDCP was somehow dependent on HDMI. i.e. no HDCP with DVI. If true, that's an issue. Do you know anything about this, 'cos I'd like to know more about it.

mandoman

Nov 29, 2005, 05:32 PM

Everybody keeps saying: Apple can't sell a DVR, they want to sell video on demand.

???

Can we please all step back a second here...Apple doesn't want to sell videos. They don't want to sell music either. They want to sell iPods! If this HTPC stuff works, they'll also have a way to push more mac minis.

I would imagine the stuff on iTunes is encoded from original material, so the quality is much higher than recording a broadcast signal.

This was the same point I was trying to make if you read furthur down my post:

If the TV networks don't step up and provide content
to apple, than an apple branded pvr accessory might come
to fruition eventually... Need that content to sell more video ipods!!!

decksnap

Nov 29, 2005, 06:25 PM

... Need that content to sell more video ipods!!!

Right- and that's exactly why they would NEVER release a DVR system that couldn't tranfer to the iPod as suggested above.

'Here's our new iPod that plays videos! And here's our new DVR that records videos!... ummm... but you can't put the videos on the iPod.'

No chance of that. The two models could easily coexist. There are millions of shows out there that you won't predictably see on any given day on TV. Those are the ones you buy. Because you want them, at that moment.

Aeolius

Nov 29, 2005, 06:30 PM

If they have TiVo-like functionality, can network together wirelessly, can output an HDTV signal with 7:1 surround sound, and have an Apple logo on them, I'll buy 6 when they come out. The ultimate distributed audio/video for my new house!

kugino

Nov 29, 2005, 06:35 PM

my heart tells me it's going to happen...my head tells me no way.

if it does, i hope it's able to work with directv.

rdowns

Nov 29, 2005, 06:54 PM

why that 30" display you got there not good anymore :D

iGary's a size queen. :D

EricNau

Nov 29, 2005, 06:54 PM

Question:
January 1, 2007, Congress is making all TV signals to be broadcasted in Digital signals (someone at bestbuy told me it also had to be HD Widescreen, don't know if that's true or not).
Will the Mac Mini be able to support this once everything changes? I would love this computer, but not if in less than a year I had to buy a new one.

I was going to buy a iPod - maybe I'll have to buy a Mac mini instead, or I guess I could get both :)

EricNau

Nov 29, 2005, 06:57 PM

I think Lacero reloads the front page incessantly so he/she can get first post a lot. Plus, he/she knows the trick for holding the spot. For the record, I'm fine with that, and appreciate that you're using it for an actual post, instead of "neato - first."

Is there a way to make a page automaticaly refresh?

yg17

Nov 29, 2005, 07:05 PM

I'd probably buy this!

The 3.5" hard drive and larger size is a fair trade off for DVR features. Plus, encoding to MPEG uses a lot of processing power, they'd probably have to enlarge it anyways to install fans and keep the processor cool.

joemama

Nov 29, 2005, 07:38 PM

I went through most of the posts, but didn't see much about pricing for DVR. Few options:

I don't think Apple will charge for the DVR service - simple reason is selling point. People are sick of paying monthly fees. Jobs sees this as an opportunity to get MORE people to purchase songs on iTunes....now from the conforts of their couch.

second option - Apple does charge a monthly fee, say 9.99, or you can subscribe to .mac (which includes the dvr subscription) for $89-99 a year.

My guess is second option.

AtHomeBoy_2000

Nov 29, 2005, 07:51 PM

Question:
January 1, 2007, Congress is making all TV signals to be broadcasted in Digital signals (someone at bestbuy told me it also had to be HD Widescreen, don't know if that's true or not).

What he told you is flat out WRONG! He's not even in the ball park. THe switch date will be a little later than that and not every signal has to be HD or Widescreen. It just has to be digital. Simple as that. THe ATSC signal includes a digital version of todays broadcast quality, but it also includes all the HD formats.

AtHomeBoy_2000

Nov 29, 2005, 07:53 PM

evilgEEk

Nov 29, 2005, 08:07 PM

This is EXACTLY what I've been waiting for! I love the size of the current mini, but if they have to make it a little bigger to accomodate a 3.5 HD, I'm okay with that. As long as the price is similar or *gasp* lower than the current minis, I'll have one the day they're released. :D

~Shard~

Nov 29, 2005, 08:15 PM

MWSF is definitely keying up to be quite the exciting event! Whether it's this new Mac mini, new Intel iBooks/PowerBooks/iMacs, or displays, it should result in some very cool new toys for all us Mac users! And don't forget iLife '06 and iWork '06 as well - perhaps we will see a revamped iPhoto (i.e. Aperture Express) and a spreadsheet-type program for iWork.... :cool:

SiliconAddict

Nov 29, 2005, 08:16 PM

maya

Nov 29, 2005, 08:21 PM

Front Row 2? 1 just came out! On the other hand, look at how long iTunes 5 lasted :rolleyes:

Who knows OS 10.5 next. ;) :D

~Shard~

Nov 29, 2005, 08:23 PM

Who knows OS 10.5 next. ;) :D

Wishful thinking, but not for another year at least. ;)

pjkelnhofer

Nov 29, 2005, 08:40 PM

I tried to read through the thread (and search it) to see if some one already mentioned it, but if Apple produces a computer that is designed to act as DVR the I am sure the good people over at MythTV (http://www.mythtv.org) will work hard to make sure that it can run it well. Suddenly you have a well built hardare DVR solution and an already mature (Linux-based) software solution that is subscription free!!!

If Apple tried to charge a monthly fee for a DVR service, I would go the MythTV or FreeVo (http://www.freevo.org) route with the Mini! Until now, both of these have been poorly supported on Mac due to the PowerPC chips. With "Intel Inside" I am sure that will change quickly!

stephenli

Nov 29, 2005, 09:27 PM

well......guys....Apple will not offer TV capability for free....
Please download your intrested prgramme daily through iTMS.....

Choppaface

Nov 29, 2005, 09:37 PM

too bad they won't make Christmas.

intel chip, 3.5in slot and SATA support for my 400gb 'Cuda, a version of Tiger x86 stable enough to run Samba Apache and iChat.... with just that I'm sold. I mean an integrated 6600 would be tight, though. I just hope they don't go overboard with the DVR stuff and slap HDCP crap on it.

~Shard~

Nov 29, 2005, 09:37 PM

well......guys....Apple will not offer TV capability for free....
Please download your intrested prgramme daily through iTMS.....

Sure, no problem - just as long as Apple provides me with the ability to download every program I might want to watch. :p If they're not planning on offering that type of a selection, then they should go the TiVo route so that users can access any show they want. :cool:

ClarkeB

Nov 29, 2005, 09:46 PM

Question:
January 1, 2007, Congress is making all TV signals to be broadcasted in Digital signals

2009

and it would be if a certain percent of the US population can aquire a digital signal.

skellener

Nov 29, 2005, 10:18 PM

You will never see an Apple branded DVR. Not in hardware or software.

Apple's model is to pay for downloads. They can control that. They can make money on that. Why would they offer "recording" features? That's just not what they are about. The iTunes Music Store is bound to have more video offerings in the future. Maybe Steve will re-launch it as the iMedia Store in January? Whatever it evolves into, that is their model. You will have to turn to third parties offer DVR capablities.

Don't ever expect anything from Apple in the way of DVR software, ever. It ain't gonna happen. I guarantee it 100%.

thegreathobo

Nov 29, 2005, 10:22 PM

In the words of Ronald Weasley, "wiiiiiicked!"
I need a DVR and I was gona use my powermac...but the mini is a bit smaller. thatd be so much fun!

indigo144

Nov 29, 2005, 10:27 PM

You will never see an Apple branded DVR. Not in hardware or software ... I guarantee it 100%.

Could you please clarify the conditions of your generous guarantee. Are you offering to refund all of us swayed by your convitions into buying ElGato?

abysstare

Nov 29, 2005, 10:31 PM

Wow... If Apple does this, I just might have to buy one of those fancy TEE-VEEs that seem to be all the rage just to check it out!

Or not.

And yes, I really don't own a television. Chew on that, you addicted masses, you! That said, this is great news. I'd love to see Apple keep expanding it's user base, and this seems like a good way to do it. But I will say that it's not the Apple product I've been waiting for years to see. But every move closer to general electronics is another move closer towards that very product. One day my dreams may come true. (No, I'm not talking about a cell phone either. But hey, that'll be nice too if should ever come to pass.)

P.S. Long live TikiBarTv! (Which I need no tv to watch, thus bringing this post ironically full circle.)

wilma

Nov 29, 2005, 10:54 PM

I think this may be Apple's version of an HD home media server using Macintosh hardware and software technology. However, unlike Microsoft, they will not try to make a dual-use PC/Media Center. It will ONLY be a media and communication device.

The success of the iPod and iTunes Music store has put Apple back in the game. A new iTunes Music/Video/Movie store will be the Trojan horse to the living room. This is one of the biggest reasons they partnered with Intel (and Intel partnered with them) - the potential for incredible high-volume sales using the lowest-cost hardware available. They have the name-brand recognition and retail presence they need to get this to the masses. Their biggest problem may be competition with cable and satellite set-top boxes and whether or not the cost dictates the need for a service provider business model.

I think this new product will be in a standard DVD player form factor (done right the Apple way) with the following features:

HD DVR (with Apple's version of a TiVo-like service)
iTunes (with new Music/Video/Movie store)
iPod interface (using USB, not a direct dock connector)
CD/DVD play/record
Photos (iPhoto lite)
Communications - video, audio, IM, email (iChat AV, Mail)
Front Row (10-foot user interface)
NO Finder (It's not a computer!)

Hardware:
CD/DVD R/W (SuperDrive)
NTSC/ATSC/QAM tuner
CableCARD 2.0
HDMI
S-video
5.1 digital audio
Ethernet (10/100)
WiFi (AirPort Extreme)
Bluetooth 2.0
USB 2.0 (iPod, camera)
FireWire (iSight, camcorder)
3.5" Hard Drive (lowest cost, highest density)
IR Remote

Do I have a clue? Only Apple knows for sure.