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snowboarder
Sep 23, 2013, 12:14 AM
I'm so sick and tired of iTunes, it's so moronic not to be able to simply copy a file to an iPhone or from an iPhone. The whole syncing thing is so broken and never gets better. Try to sync 2 or 3 devices on one Apple id and 2 or 3 iCloud accounts, what a mess... Incredible why such a powerful device is so limited by the stupid iTunes based system. Simply incredible...
Why can't I create folders and organize files or even photos the way I want?

Eso
Sep 23, 2013, 12:16 AM
"Who wants a file system?"

-Apple

djtech42
Sep 23, 2013, 12:16 AM
If they do a file system, it will have to be abstract. They won't let people just browse the files on the device. It can be done though. The question is, how many people are asking for it? Apple will only attempt it if there is enough demand for it.

Armen
Sep 23, 2013, 12:53 AM
I'm so sick and tired of iTunes, it's so moronic not to be able to simply copy a file to an iPhone or from an iPhone. The whole syncing thing is so broken and never gets better. Try to sync 2 or 3 devices on one Apple id and 2 or 3 iCloud accounts, what a mess... Incredible why such a powerful device is so limited by the stupid iTunes based system. Simply incredible...
Why can't I create folders and organize files or even photos the way I want?

Steve Jobs didn't want users to manage or worry about a file system. Let the app do the saving and managing of files. Try Dropbox. That's what I use for pics and docs and such.

djtech42
Sep 23, 2013, 12:57 AM
Steve Jobs didn't want users to manage or worry about a file system. Let the app do the saving and managing of files. Try Dropbox. That's what I use for pics and docs and such.

The problem is that sometimes it can actually make things more complicated than simpler.

robjulo
Sep 23, 2013, 06:34 AM
No file system makes things far more complicated than having one. A simple file repository (just like photos are already handled) would likely be all,that is needed IMO.

Try Replying to All in a business email and adding a file. Can't do it without first drafting a separate email with whatever sandboxed app contains the file, then copying the file then pasting the file.

ReValveiT
Sep 23, 2013, 07:11 AM
They really should add drag and drop music. Having to use iTunes sync is awful and always has been. It's so bad that I sync all my music through the Spotify app; a far easier and much more elegant solution.

Just add a 'music' folder in much the same way as there's a 'photos' folder and make millions of lives easier.

MrGimper
Sep 23, 2013, 07:21 AM
If they do a file system, it will have to be abstract. They won't let people just browse the files on the device. It can be done though. The question is, how many people are asking for it? Apple will only attempt it if there is enough demand for it.

Agreed. There just needs some kind of central repository for all your "stuff". Let the user decide if an app can access your "stuff" folder (like apps have to request access to contacts, folders etc).

Having stuff in several apps sandboxes is a waste of space. "Open in..." Just makes a copy of the file if I'm correct

Todd B.
Sep 23, 2013, 07:22 AM
"Who doesn't care about a file system?"

-The majority of people

Fixed it for you.

hakr100
Sep 23, 2013, 07:37 AM
I sold my iPad 3 for two reasons:

1. No usable file system
2. No reasonable way to hook up and use a mouse which, if you write and edit for a living, is something you really have to have.

Used the proceeds to help buy an MBA 13".

Small White Car
Sep 23, 2013, 07:44 AM
Once again: "There's an app for that."

Those of us who care have Dropbox. Or Files Pro. Or Stash. Or one of the dozens of other apps that let you store and sync files.

There is zero reason for Apple to try and force that on everyone as a default since those of us who need it already have it.

So, no, there will never be a straight iOS file system. What Apple DOES need to do is:

1) Increase the ability of apps to interact with each other beyond what they can do now. The more they do this the less I actually need or care about a file system in the first place.

2) To help out those of us who are using files, they should negotiate with Dropbox the way they work with Facebook. I should be able to log into DP on the OS-level and allow more apps to directly talk to it. (Many apps already do, but it would make things easier if that link-up was being handled by the OS and not each app individually.)

3) iCloud data needs a lot of expansion into sharing and syncing between different accounts and different apps. But I would honestly prefer to see Apple put their efforts into this instead of giving us an iOS file system.


Let's face it: Giving file systems to the general public was the worst mistake of the first home computer revolution. Leaving that out of the second go at it was the main reason iPads succeeded where tons of Windows tablets had failed again and again before.

I'm not saying abolish them (I'm a video editor, they're obviously essential for my work) but I am saying that file systems should be seen as a "Pro" feature that you have to install on purpose, not a default for everyone. This is how iOS treats it, and as long as they keep moving forward on my three ideas I'll be happy.

darngooddesign
Sep 23, 2013, 07:54 AM
Once again: "There's an app for that."

Those of us who care have Dropbox. Or Files Pro. Or Stash. Or one of the dozens of other apps that let you store and sync files.

There is zero reason for Apple to try and force that on everyone as a default since those of us who need it already have it.

So, no, there will never be a straight iOS file system. What Apple DOES need to do is:

1) Increase the ability of apps to interact with each other beyond what they can do now. The more they do this the less I actually need or care about a file system in the first place.

2) To help out those of us who are using files, they should negotiate with Dropbox the way they work with Facebook. I should be able to log into DP on the OS-level and allow more apps to directly talk to it. (Many apps already do, but it would make things easier if that link-up was being handled by the OS and not each app individually.)

3) iCloud data needs a lot of expansion into sharing and syncing between different accounts and different apps. But I would honestly prefer to see Apple put their efforts into this instead of giving us an iOS file system.


Let's face it: Giving file systems to the general public was the worst mistake of the first home computer revolution. Leaving that out of the second go at it was the main reason iPads succeeded where tons of Windows tablets had failed again and again before.

I'm not saying abolish them (I'm a video editor, they're obviously essential for my work) but I am saying that file systems should be seen as a "Pro" feature that you have to install on purpose, not a default for everyone. This is how iOS treats it, and as long as they keep moving forward on my three ideas I'll be happy.

I disagree with partnering with DropBox on such a fundamental level. What if DB is bought or goes away? Apple won't trust a fundamental part of their OS to an outside vendor. I don't even see them replacing a local file system with a cloud file system as the only solution because not everyone is guaranteed internet access all the time. In a world with data caps, will you really want cloud services to handle large files like videos?

For the sake of argument, lets say iOS file system is a duplicate of DropBox. How would having a local version of DropBox be any more complex than using DropBox?

Remember that filesystem does not mean OSX's finder. It can also be a common location where you can open, save and organize files. A folder you can access from any computer. Like dropbox, but local.

Curun
Sep 23, 2013, 07:57 AM
I'm so sick and tired of iTunes, it's so moronic not to be able to simply copy a file to an iPhone or from an iPhone. The whole syncing thing is so broken and never gets better. Try to sync 2 or 3 devices on one Apple id and 2 or 3 iCloud accounts, what a mess... Incredible why such a powerful device is so limited by the stupid iTunes based system. Simply incredible...
Why can't I create folders and organize files or even photos the way I want?1. Don't use it, I rarely do, and have family members who don't at all.

2. You can.

3. Syncing 3 devices to 3 different iCloud accounts. I can't even fathom a reason that makes sense. Two way sync algorithms would just explode.

4. You can.

PS. there is a file system, by most accounts it likely uses HSFX.

Daveoc64
Sep 23, 2013, 07:58 AM
"Who wants a file system?"

-Apple

"Who wants apps?"

-Apple

They don't get things right all of the time.

kappaknight
Sep 23, 2013, 08:04 AM
Actually, I thought Apple did try to acquired Dropbox at one point. DB really does have the most elegant solution for syncing files. Being its own separate entity is good though since it will allow cross OS'es to work together.

I sold my iPad 3 for two reasons:

1. No usable file system
2. No reasonable way to hook up and use a mouse which, if you write and edit for a living, is something you really have to have.

Used the proceeds to help buy an MBA 13".

You sort of answered your own question there. iPads are media consumption devices; despite what Apple tells you. If you spend a majority of your time producing content, a laptop is the way to go.

Nikhil72
Sep 23, 2013, 08:13 AM
As far as loading music goes...

Yes you have to use iTunes, but assuming your music is in there, check "Manually manage.." With your iPhone plugged in, and there you go, drag and drop of music to your heart's content. It even works over wifi. Works for movies too. Sure, you use the iTunes interface, but it's the same concept.

As for documents that require 2-way sync, apps that tie into Dropbox work really well.

Small White Car
Sep 23, 2013, 08:42 AM
I disagree with partnering with DropBox on such a fundamental level.

I already have several apps that log into Dropbox. The ONLY thing I'm asking for is a more streamlined way to manage those logins and authentications. Nothing else. I don't see how that's a huge change. If Dropbox goes away then they just remove that part of the OS.

I do agree it won't happen because it goes against them advocating iCloud and Airdrop.

So I'm not saying it will happen, just that if it did I don't see what the problem would be.

nosnhojm
Sep 23, 2013, 09:40 AM
I don't want a filesystem.

Docs? I use either Dropbox or iCloud
Photos? I use either photostream or connect via USB to computer and import
Music? iTunes match; and I only download select playlists

I agree that files should be less sandboxed; but a filesystem is not the answer (apps should be more interoperable).

darngooddesign
Sep 23, 2013, 10:02 AM
I already have several apps that log into Dropbox. The ONLY thing I'm asking for is a more streamlined way to manage those logins and authentications. Nothing else. I don't see how that's a huge change. If Dropbox goes away then they just remove that part of the OS.

I do agree it won't happen because it goes against them advocating iCloud and Airdrop.

So I'm not saying it will happen, just that if it did I don't see what the problem would be.

It won't happen because if they wouldn't base such a big part of their OS, a filesystem, on a third party. They will roll their own, which most likely will sync against iCloud which if it matches DB for features I have no problem with. Think about it in regards to Maps. They allowed Google to have control over the data and features of the maps app, and those features lagged behind what was available on Android. Apple had to create its own app before they could get things like turn by turn nav. Ironically that's what forced Google to make a better app for iOS.

There is also a security issue, if DropBox is compromised, something they would have no control over, and it is deeply integrated in the OS, then there will be big issues. The blame will fall on Apple, not Dropbox. If a company's servers are hacked, does the company get blamed or the company hosting those servers? Maybe those in the know will blame the hosting company, but all the bad publicity will fall on Apple.

mikosk
Sep 23, 2013, 10:27 AM
No file system makes things far more complicated than having one. A simple file repository (just like photos are already handled) would likely be all,that is needed IMO.

Try Replying to All in a business email and adding a file. Can't do it without first drafting a separate email with whatever sandboxed app contains the file, then copying the file then pasting the file.

Bingo. This is my biggest complaint about my iPhone and iPad. When my client says, send me the contract, I can't just reply to their email and attach the file inline. I have to spoof the email in a 3rd party app.

Apple lets you choose which app to open a file in, why not take the same approach in reverse? That would solve the whole file structure issue where they won't have to provide one. Just ask the user where they want to insert the file from, similar to how photos are handled, but then show the list of 3rd party apps that are available.

snowboarder
Sep 23, 2013, 11:17 AM
If they do a file system, it will have to be abstract. They won't let people just browse the files on the device. It can be done though. The question is, how many people are asking for it? Apple will only attempt it if there is enough demand for it.

As the device becomes more powerful, there will be more demand.
You can store 50GB of photos on your iPhone if you want, try to deal with
that amount of unorganized mess.
Or anything else. iTunes makes me puke every time I open it...

----------

No file system makes things far more complicated than having one. A simple file repository (just like photos are already handled) would likely be all,that is needed IMO.

Try Replying to All in a business email and adding a file. Can't do it without first drafting a separate email with whatever sandboxed app contains the file, then copying the file then pasting the file.

agree 100%. But you can't just put all the files into one bag, it needs to
be organized and you need to have some control over the way you want it
to be organized...

Spacial
Sep 23, 2013, 11:26 AM
I'm so sick and tired of iTunes, it's so moronic not to be able to simply copy a file to an iPhone or from an iPhone. The whole syncing thing is so broken and never gets better. Try to sync 2 or 3 devices on one Apple id and 2 or 3 iCloud accounts, what a mess... Incredible why such a powerful device is so limited by the stupid iTunes based system. Simply incredible...
Why can't I create folders and organize files or even photos the way I want?

Apple is a dictatorship. Proprietary ways have assured they have a captive user base.

Conversely Android is a breath of fresh air. One is able to do as they wish, creating exactly the right smartphone functionality for their workflow. While the platform had the normal bugs, annoyances et al during its early years, now with the arrival of Android ver 4.x.x it's mature, fast, fun, and very reliable.

An experience that easily equals that of iOS.

Todd B.
Sep 23, 2013, 11:38 AM
Apple is a dictatorship. Proprietary ways have assured they have a captive user base.

Conversely Android is a breath of fresh air. One is able to do as they wish, creating exactly the right smartphone functionality for their workflow. While the platform had the normal bugs, annoyances et al during its early years, now with the arrival of Android ver 4.x.x it's mature, fast, fun, and very reliable.

An experience that easily equals that of iOS.

Pretty sure you need to look up the definition of "dictatorship" in the dictionary.

Small White Car
Sep 23, 2013, 11:39 AM
It won't happen because if they wouldn't base such a big part of their OS, a filesystem, on a third party. They will roll their own, which most likely will sync against iCloud which if it matches DB for features I have no problem with. Think about it in regards to Maps. They allowed Google to have control over the data and features of the maps app, and those features lagged behind what was available on Android. Apple had to create its own app before they could get things like turn by turn nav. Ironically that's what forced Google to make a better app for iOS.

There is also a security issue, if DropBox is compromised, something they would have no control over, and it is deeply integrated in the OS, then there will be big issues. The blame will fall on Apple, not Dropbox. If a company's servers are hacked, does the company get blamed or the company hosting those servers? Maybe those in the know will blame the hosting company, but all the bad publicity will fall on Apple.

I feel like every single one of your arguments applies equally well to Facebook and yet they went ahead and stuck them in there anyway.

darngooddesign
Sep 23, 2013, 11:58 AM
I feel like every single one of your arguments applies equally well to Facebook and yet they went ahead and stuck them in there anyway.

Posting to FB is a nice feature, but hardly a core component, regardless of how over-sharers feel. Handling of files is a far more important to the OS than telling everyone what you had for breakfast.

Regardless I do agree that they should allow better management of the cloud services you use.

Armen
Sep 23, 2013, 12:00 PM
Apple is a dictatorship. Proprietary ways have assured they have a captive user base.

Conversely Android is a breath of fresh air. One is able to do as they wish, creating exactly the right smartphone functionality for their workflow. While the platform had the normal bugs, annoyances et al during its early years, now with the arrival of Android ver 4.x.x it's mature, fast, fun, and very reliable.

An experience that easily equals that of iOS.

Breath of fresh air like how you cant uninstall Carrier BLOATWARE unless you Root your phone? :rolleyes:

robjulo
Sep 23, 2013, 01:05 PM
agree 100%. But you can't just put all the files into one bag, it needs to
be organized and you need to have some control over the way you want it
to be organized...

Personally, I'm ok with just a repository, the way photos are treated now. Others may have different needs.

What I do know is that the very simple task of adding a file to an email response should not require 1) creating a new email from the sandboxed app 2)copying the file from the email you just created (you often have to get a portion of the text as well for this workaround to work right) 3)hitting reply all in the email you want to attach a file to 4) pasting the file and then deleting any text that you also copied 5) deleting the dummy email.

It should be as simple as "Insert Document" just like it allows you to Insert Photo. Don't know how anyone can justify the above workaround that is required.

snowboarder
Sep 23, 2013, 03:05 PM
Personally, I'm ok with just a repository, the way photos are treated now. Others may have different needs.

What I do know is that the very simple task of adding a file to an email response should not require 1) creating a new email from the sandboxed app 2)copying the file from the email you just created (you often have to get a portion of the text as well for this workaround to work right) 3)hitting reply all in the email you want to attach a file to 4) pasting the file and then deleting any text that you also copied 5) deleting the dummy email.

It should be as simple as "Insert Document" just like it allows you to Insert Photo. Don't know how anyone can justify the above workaround that is required.


It looks like dumbing down is the new Apple way of doing everything...
But they somehow are not able to see that "simple" becomes way more complicated that complicated once was...

MisterDisney
Sep 23, 2013, 03:08 PM
I sincerely hope they don't.

djtech42
Sep 23, 2013, 03:16 PM
Before I knew iOS 7 would be flat and remove skeuomorphism, I made this concept for managing files: http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1420029

I thought this would be a way Apple could introduce document management without creating a traditional file manager on iOS.

APhillyApple
Sep 23, 2013, 03:18 PM
I dont think its needed. Some people sound like they need a file system for the sake of having a file system. iCloud works great, iTunes for music, Photo stream works great too.

charlituna
Sep 23, 2013, 03:54 PM
"Who wants a file system?"

-Apple

more like "it's not a computer"

which is rather true. For the majority of users they don't need to be able to dig in, make folders etc. And that is Apple's audience.

now that said I do see a logic in changing up the system a bit. it's annoying to have to have 4 copies of a file because it has to live in every applicable apps bucket of data. Particularly annoying when it's something like an image or a PDF. why can't there be a common bucket of data that is then visible to all apps that can open it etc. That might even get rid of the need to save things to itunes for file sharing. it's already there. even if we can't touch it directly.

Daveoc64
Sep 23, 2013, 04:09 PM
Breath of fresh air like how you cant uninstall Carrier BLOATWARE unless you Root your phone? :rolleyes:

While there's no bloatware, the iPhone offers carriers the ability to restrict more features of the device than any other phone.

anthonymoody
Sep 23, 2013, 04:19 PM
I have and continue to use Dropbox plus dropdav to enable file round tripping in and out of iWork docs, all synced nicely to the Dropbox cloud as well as my legacy Mac. So that's my file system on the iPad. Simple, easy, and effective. Though not as much as if Apple would bake in something better.

However, I believe that the "file system" coming to iOS has already been revealed in the Mavericks introduction: the use of tags to identify documents and media, as a means of 'connecting' them relationally if no longer in what we think of as folders. It certainly requires some effort if not even diligence to use properly, but can be much more powerful and flexible if used correctly.

Armen
Sep 23, 2013, 04:28 PM
While there's no bloatware, the iPhone offers carriers the ability to restrict more features of the device than any other phone.

Would you be able to provide me a few examples?

I know the personal Hot spot feature is disabled unless you are actually paying for it. The only other feature I can think of is face time over cellular which AT&T now allows.

notrack
Sep 23, 2013, 05:07 PM
While i think that a simple folder browser like win explorer wouldn't be very helpful, some kind of document management is definetely needed. More and more people do more stuff on mobile devices.

Now files that belong together are split up in different places. I think there is nothing wrong with an opional finder app that can display all file types in one place.

The user should be able to set which file types are listed/accessable. Sort, filter and search e.g. by tags (as folders are basically just tags as well).

Armen
Sep 23, 2013, 05:12 PM
It looks like dumbing down is the new Apple way of doing everything...
But they somehow are not able to see that "simple" becomes way more complicated that complicated once was...

On that note do you know how to drive a car with a manual transmission? If not, aren't you glad they "dumbed" that down and made an automatic so everyone could drive?

snowboarder
Sep 23, 2013, 05:26 PM
while i think that a simple folder browser like win explorer wouldn't be very helpful, some kind of document management is definetely needed. More and more people do more stuff on mobile devices.

Now files that belong together are split up in different places. I think there is nothing wrong with an opional finder app that can display all file types in one place.

The user should be able to set which file types are listed/accessable. Sort, filter and search e.g. By tags (as folders are basically just tags as well).

+1

Daveoc64
Sep 23, 2013, 06:44 PM
Would you be able to provide me a few examples?

I know the personal Hot spot feature is disabled unless you are actually paying for it. The only other feature I can think of is face time over cellular which AT&T now allows.


Personal Hotspot, as mentioned by you
Download limits when using cellular data
Ability to prevent system updates using cellular data
Ability to disable the 3G toggle
Ability to disable the editing of the APN settings, which can be essential to use an MVNO
Ability to control how some features work when roaming

LastOneToKnow
Sep 23, 2013, 07:59 PM
I've been running FileApp Pro on my iPhone/iPad for a few years now along with their PC based application. Makes up for the lack of an accessible file system quite well. The PC application also provides access the actual file system of my iPhone/iPad allowing for manually backing up the data for any given app which otherwise in most cases could only be backed up and then restored by performing a full backup/restore of the iPhone/iPad using iTunes. I also run my own personal cloud using an app called Tonido. The server app runs on my HTPC which I leave on 24/7. I then have access to all my local personal data from my iPhone/iPad, none of which needs to be uploaded to someone elses cloud. There's also a music player built in which is what I use Tonido for the most since AudioGalaxy got bought out and shut down. :-( Pretty sweet to have access 24/7 to my 100+ gig local music colllection most of which I did not purchase from iTunes, but bought on CD or purchased from other places. Not about to upload my music collection to Apple's cloud when I can just steam it from my HTPC instead and the iPhone/iPad music apps are crap anyway.

Zellio
Sep 23, 2013, 08:07 PM
"Who wants a file system?"

-Apple

"Who wants a two button mouse?"

-Apple

portishead
Sep 23, 2013, 08:50 PM
I used to want iOS to have more of a filesystem, but as it's progressed, I don't think it needs one. It works fine as-is. I use my NAS to store my media, and I can browse it all through my iPhone. If I want, I can also sync my photos/videos using Aperture or iPhoto.

Apple needs to focus on better syncing between devices, especially for things like mail which uses push alerts. I will read an email on 1 device, but it still shows as unread on another.

I think it makes more sense with the iPad, but I don't think you're going to see much there.

tharepairguy
Sep 23, 2013, 10:07 PM
I would love to see some type of file system access. I paid a premium for the 64gb model. In 2013, why should I have to carry around a thumb drive if I want to keep my data secure when I have a phone with all that wasted space? I have zero interest in having my personal data stored in someones cloud...

Max(IT)
Sep 23, 2013, 11:23 PM
Sometimes a file system could be useful .... but what I'm looking for, and maybe could be enough for most of the people here, is a proper "My Documents" folder.

7enderbender
Sep 23, 2013, 11:28 PM
I don't want a filesystem.

Docs? I use either Dropbox or iCloud
Photos? I use either photostream or connect via USB to computer and import
Music? iTunes match; and I only download select playlists

I agree that files should be less sandboxed; but a filesystem is not the answer (apps should be more interoperable).


Glad this works for you. Problem is that this for the most part only works in Apple only environments.

Example: try sending a simple photo (family snapshot) to a grandparent or friend with a PC (yes, they exist). My iphone can't do that. It inserts every photo as an inline photo and Apple applies non-industry standards formats obviously. Exif data is incomplete, files show up upside down or sideways, naming is always reduced to the same default file name, etc.

The answer can't be that only will things be great if everyone owns and operates Apple devices. And I'm not willing to send grandpa dropbox links because Apple doesn't want to give us a few more very simple, safe and established OPTIONS. Such as sending a picture or video as a standard attachment.

Skika
Sep 24, 2013, 03:42 AM
Glad this works for you. Problem is that this for the most part only works in Apple only environments.

Example: try sending a simple photo (family snapshot) to a grandparent or friend with a PC (yes, they exist). My iphone can't do that. It inserts every photo as an inline photo and Apple applies non-industry standards formats obviously. Exif data is incomplete, files show up upside down or sideways, naming is always reduced to the same default file name, etc.

The answer can't be that only will things be great if everyone owns and operates Apple devices. And I'm not willing to send grandpa dropbox links because Apple doesn't want to give us a few more very simple, safe and established OPTIONS. Such as sending a picture or video as a standard attachment.

I send my granma pictures with my iPhone all the time there are no problems.

She is using W7 and Outlook.

davidg4781
Sep 24, 2013, 04:03 AM
I'm so sick and tired of iTunes, it's so moronic not to be able to simply copy a file to an iPhone or from an iPhone. The whole syncing thing is so broken and never gets better. Try to sync 2 or 3 devices on one Apple id and 2 or 3 iCloud accounts, what a mess... Incredible why such a powerful device is so limited by the stupid iTunes based system. Simply incredible...
Why can't I create folders and organize files or even photos the way I want?

What kind of file would you need to just copy over to an iPhone? Quicken file? What would you open it with? Don't think I'm being a jerk or something, but I am curious. I used to sync my Personal Folder (with documents I use very often) to my Palm Trēo. I did that for 2 years and never had to access those files.

I've never had to sync multiple accounts but I can imagine it would get cumbersome. I wonder if iTunes Match would help? Contacts, Mail, Calendar, Reminders, and Notes are all stored in the cloud. Movies you can just download. iTunes Match would make sure all your music is in the cloud and you can just download what you need on each phone. Maybe I'm missing something since I've never done this.

And Photos lets you create Albums on your phone and add pictures to them. Would this not work out for you? Personally I love having iPhoto organize all my photos. I will admit since I went to iPhone they've gotten somewhat unorganized since if it's just random pictures I just let it sync instead of putting it in an event or something but that's my fault. If I had to deal with folders they'd all be dumped into one folder.

Nevaborn
Sep 24, 2013, 09:30 AM
iFolder is what I want.

Where all documents can be saved, viewed and edited by opening in to Pages, Keynote, numbers. then it can be saved back to iFolder and uploaded to the internet and email and airdrop and various other storage platforms.

The ability for ifolder to be recognised by websites and to browse and upload files through them would be a necessity

...

Either this or put a usb port on the ipad and allow proper support through an adapter for the iphone. Only ways we will get a normal file system.

donnaw
Sep 24, 2013, 10:55 AM
Personally, I'm ok with just a repository, the way photos are treated now. Others may have different needs.

What I do know is that the very simple task of adding a file to an email response should not require 1) creating a new email from the sandboxed app 2)copying the file from the email you just created (you often have to get a portion of the text as well for this workaround to work right) 3)hitting reply all in the email you want to attach a file to 4) pasting the file and then deleting any text that you also copied 5) deleting the dummy email.

It should be as simple as "Insert Document" just like it allows you to Insert Photo. Don't know how anyone can justify the above workaround that is required.

To be honest all it would take is a 'User Documents' folder. Put all user-created or downloaded files there. (Not app or sys files). Then give the user access to create folders, move files, attach files, etc. and put the photos in there too so we can rename them -like 'Kara's first recital'. What's so hard about that?

I'll be honest, I'm retired and only use my iPad for 'consumption' but even I have issues with no file access. If I were still working I would not buy an iPad for anything due to the limitations. And don't start on the 'workaround's'. Nobody should have to resort to workarounds for such basic functionality.

Smith288
Sep 24, 2013, 11:48 AM
Apple is a dictatorship. Proprietary ways have assured they have a captive user base.

Conversely Android is a breath of fresh air.

Dictatorship?? Who's forcing you to use it?

Android is a breath of fresh air?? If fresh air smells like a pig farm... Might mean well, doesnt mean it's good.

Android's garbage for people who want simplicity like what my parents are aiming for.

joejoejoe
Sep 24, 2013, 11:54 AM
Apple is a dictatorship. Proprietary ways have assured they have a captive user base.

Conversely Android is a breath of fresh air. One is able to do as they wish, creating exactly the right smartphone functionality for their workflow. While the platform had the normal bugs, annoyances et al during its early years, now with the arrival of Android ver 4.x.x it's mature, fast, fun, and very reliable.

An experience that easily equals that of iOS.

Even the mere act of swiping through photos feels more natural on iOS than it does on Android.

Android gives you options and customizability, sure. iPhone gives you polish, and strives for transparency between the user and the content they're trying to reach. Two different flavors for different types of people.

SakuraSuki
Sep 24, 2013, 11:57 AM
Dictatorship?? Who's forcing you to use it?

Android is a breath of fresh air?? If fresh air smells like a pig farm... Might mean well, doesnt mean it's good.

Android's garbage for people who want simplicity like what my parents are aiming for.

WoW...the Android hate..Android is not any harder than iOS. Android is much more close to the way we operating desktop OS like OS X and Windows. So people uses Windows can pick up Android very quickly.

Tyler23
Sep 24, 2013, 12:01 PM
WoW...the Android hate..Android is not any harder than iOS. Android is much more close to the way we operating desktop OS like OS X and Windows. So people uses Windows can pick up Android very quickly.

That's great, people are free to use Android if they want.

This is how iOS has always been, and it's very obvious they want it this way.

SakuraSuki
Sep 24, 2013, 12:12 PM
What kind of file would you need to just copy over to an iPhone? Quicken file? What would you open it with? Don't think I'm being a jerk or something, but I am curious. I used to sync my Personal Folder (with documents I use very often) to my Palm Trēo. I did that for 2 years and never had to access those files.

I've never had to sync multiple accounts but I can imagine it would get cumbersome. I wonder if iTunes Match would help? Contacts, Mail, Calendar, Reminders, and Notes are all stored in the cloud. Movies you can just download. iTunes Match would make sure all your music is in the cloud and you can just download what you need on each phone. Maybe I'm missing something since I've never done this.

And Photos lets you create Albums on your phone and add pictures to them. Would this not work out for you? Personally I love having iPhoto organize all my photos. I will admit since I went to iPhone they've gotten somewhat unorganized since if it's just random pictures I just let it sync instead of putting it in an event or something but that's my fault. If I had to deal with folders they'd all be dumped into one folder.

Have you ever came across anything you wanted to download from internet but you cannot download because there is no file app or Safari only open certain types of file?

I said over and over again on my other post, not everyone is willing to pay for iTunes Match and be able to drag and drop to your musics to music app is much more quicker than sync through iTunes

People downloading movies on their computers too. Whether from legal way or illegal way, people want the ability to transfer movie quickly to their phone or iPad.

Whether you need file app or not, there are people wants this feature. Even if you againesr file manager, there at least should be a central location for all your downloaded content, so that people can quickly open the file.

----------

That's great, people are free to use Android if they want.

This is how iOS has always been, and it's very obvious they want it this way.

It isn't necessarily iOS users want it this way, it is more like Apple wants this way.

There have been numerously users calling for some type of file manger over past few years and I don't think adding such feature will cause great harm to iOS.

haydn!
Sep 24, 2013, 12:18 PM
I think some simple way of accessing files created in apps, docs, spreadsheets, keynotes etc would be great.

It wouldn't need to be any more complex than the old photos app. It just needs a listing, quick search, quick launch opening in the default app for the document type, and a share function so they can be shared by email, iMessage or Airdrop etc.

If they're serious about enterprise, it will become essential sooner or later.

Overg
Sep 24, 2013, 12:20 PM
I'm so sick and tired of iTunes, it's so moronic not to be able to simply copy a file to an iPhone or from an iPhone. The whole syncing thing is so broken and never gets better. Try to sync 2 or 3 devices on one Apple id and 2 or 3 iCloud accounts, what a mess... Incredible why such a powerful device is so limited by the stupid iTunes based system. Simply incredible...
Why can't I create folders and organize files or even photos the way I want?
I agree with every pixel you wrote :)

s2mikey
Sep 24, 2013, 01:03 PM
more like "it's not a computer"

which is rather true. For the majority of users they don't need to be able to dig in, make folders etc. And that is Apple's audience.

now that said I do see a logic in changing up the system a bit. it's annoying to have to have 4 copies of a file because it has to live in every applicable apps bucket of data. Particularly annoying when it's something like an image or a PDF. why can't there be a common bucket of data that is then visible to all apps that can open it etc. That might even get rid of the need to save things to itunes for file sharing. it's already there. even if we can't touch it directly.

Well - I wouldnt say its not a computer so fast. Apple would certainly be fine with tablets over taking the PC market. If that was the case, they would almost have to do something that resembled a file system.

I personally dont see what the big deal is to having a basic, limited functionality file system available. Even if it only let you copy and move files around. They could easily block certain important files or whatever. No editing, just some file management stuff built into the OS.

All that cloud stuff is great and everything but sometimes it realy IS easier and more practical to just do it within the system. Like, when there is NO wifi or whatever ;)

I doubt they'll do it though. Its not just to remain proprietary either, its all a part of the walled-garden that is both wonderful and sometimes frustrating at the same time. But, its not as if people dont know this gong into it so if it really bugs people....dont get an iDevice, I guess.

Smith288
Sep 24, 2013, 01:20 PM
WoW...the Android hate..Android is not any harder than iOS. Android is much more close to the way we operating desktop OS like OS X and Windows. So people uses Windows can pick up Android very quickly.

Read it again. My parents don't want the complexity android has. It's a phone. It doesn't need to act like a mini laptop. They want ease of use.

You may like that, and by all means, use android but apples focus isn't you. It's a numbers game and the numbers want simplicity.

RedCoil
Sep 24, 2013, 01:28 PM
I think some simple way of accessing files created in apps, docs, spreadsheets, keynotes etc would be great.

It wouldn't need to be any more complex than the old photos app. It just needs a listing, quick search, quick launch opening in the default app for the document type, and a share function so they can be shared by email, iMessage or Airdrop etc.

If they're serious about enterprise, it will become essential sooner or later.

Seems to me that the simplest solution would be to "de-sandbox" iCloud. Let it act as a common pool of files that are just tabbed/sorted by type. Better yet, instead of all the social media integrations, add Dropbox integration into the next iOS.

A simple, work-around free means to move files around or add them to emails, Evernote, Keynotes and such doesn't seem like too much to ask.

SakuraSuki
Sep 24, 2013, 02:19 PM
Read it again. My parents don't want the complexity android has. It's a phone. It doesn't need to act like a mini laptop. They want ease of use.

You may like that, and by all means, use android but apples focus isn't you. It's a numbers game and the numbers want simplicity.

My parent is exactly opposite. They are looking for the device that really similar with desktop OS experience, because they don't have to learn the new OS. I still remember my father asking me that why he cannot download mp3 files, why he cannot transfer word document to his iPad.

Like I said, iOS isn't just about iPhone. You can argue phone need not be complicate, but this argument does not hold on iPad, unless you just want he blown up iPhone.

matttye
Sep 24, 2013, 02:29 PM
They should definitely add some kind of file repository and a standard method of sharing files between apps.

At the moment even Apples own apps are inconsistent. You can send multiple photos in a single email but only one pages document.

If I receive a file in an email, eg a PDF, I might want to save it to look at it later, but by default I can't do that. Why should I have to download a third party app just to save a file that the iPhone is capable of viewing natively?

They don't need to add a full blown file system, just an app that you can save files in and apps can access if given permission, like someone suggested earlier. The app doesn't even need to support folders if it has a decent search feature.

Zcott
Sep 24, 2013, 02:32 PM
Worth remembering that in 15 years time, the kids who had iPads since aged 5 will have no idea what a file system is, and the whole idea of it will sound pretty outrageous. Why not just open Pages and have all your Pages documents there?

SakuraSuki
Sep 24, 2013, 02:37 PM
Worth remembering that in 15 years time, the kids who had iPads since aged 5 will have no idea what a file system is, and the whole idea of it will sound pretty outrageous. Why not just open Pages and have all your Pages documents there?

Unless you eliminate all other OS or keep him only use iPad, then he probably will encounter file system or some type of file manager,

----------

They should definitely add some kind of file repository and a standard method of sharing files between apps.

At the moment even Apples own apps are inconsistent. You can send multiple photos in a single email but only one pages document.

If I receive a file in an email, eg a PDF, I might want to save it to look at it later, but by default I can't do that. Why should I have to download a third party app just to save a file that the iPhone is capable of viewing natively?

They don't need to add a full blown file system, just an app that you can save files in and apps can access if given permission, like someone suggested earlier. The app doesn't even need to support folders if it has a decent search feature.

Agreed. I however, would like folders. Folders is a good way to organize your files. I always annoyed when I have to save my files to some third party application, then I have figure out which app I saved to.

matttye
Sep 24, 2013, 02:39 PM
Worth remembering that in 15 years time, the kids who had iPads since aged 5 will have no idea what a file system is, and the whole idea of it will sound pretty outrageous. Why not just open Pages and have all your Pages documents there?

That's fine for your specific example.

But what if the user doesn't have pages? Should the person have to buy pages just to save a document he receives in an email?

The iPhone can view many document types natively, yet there's no way of saving these files into the OS itself. You need an app that they can be saved into.

Zcott
Sep 24, 2013, 02:40 PM
That's fine for your specific example.

But what if the user doesn't have pages? Should the person have to buy pages just to save a document he receives in an email?

Any sort of word processing app should handle multiple formats. And anyway, they're giving away Pages for free now.

The iPhone can view many document types natively, yet there's no way of saving these files into the OS itself. You need an app that they can be saved into.

Yep, and that's how it is at the moment too on a desktop. Why save a .psd file if you don't have Photoshop?

j4zb4
Sep 24, 2013, 02:43 PM
As far as loading music goes...

Yes you have to use iTunes, but assuming your music is in there, check "Manually manage.." With your iPhone plugged in, and there you go, drag and drop of music to your heart's content. It even works over wifi. Works for movies too. Sure, you use the iTunes interface, but it's the same concept.

As for documents that require 2-way sync, apps that tie into Dropbox work really well.

It's amazing how so few people know about the manually manage option...

matttye
Sep 24, 2013, 02:44 PM
Any sort of word processing app should handle multiple formats. And anyway, they're giving away Pages for free now.



Yep, and that's how it is at the moment too on a desktop. Why save a .psd file if you don't have Photoshop?

You're missing my point. Windows doesn't do anything with a .psd file when Photoshop isn't installed.

However, the iPhone can view PDF files, lots of office-type documents, etc., yet it has no way of saving or storing them. Someone might just want to VIEW the document and such functionality is baked into the OS already.

Clearly if someone needed to edit such documents they would buy Pages/Numbers/whatever app.

SakuraSuki
Sep 24, 2013, 02:52 PM
Any sort of word processing app should handle multiple formats. And anyway, they're giving away Pages for free now.



Yep, and that's how it is at the moment too on a desktop. Why save a .psd file if you don't have Photoshop?

You can save .psd and view the content I believe, you just cannot edit it. iOS can view document natively, so why would user need install third party application just to save the the document?

Even if you don't have .psd and your OS cannot view .psd, you can still save it. Then open it with appropriate application.

----------

It's amazing how so few people know about the manually manage option...

Still require iTunes. Old MP3 player or Android, you can just drag and drop without any software. That is true drag and drop

Jimmy James
Sep 24, 2013, 04:48 PM
Steve Jobs didn't want users to manage or worry about a file system. Let the app do the saving and managing of files. Try Dropbox. That's what I use for pics and docs and such.

Instead, I spend a lot more time managing my apps. I'd take the file system.

Nevaborn
Sep 24, 2013, 05:03 PM
Mywork requires a shed load of document, especially Word and Excell. All I want is Apple to do like I said on previous page is an iFolder.

A file system where I cqn store all these documents, view and edit them with Pages / Numbers and then save them back there for syncing and backup. Of transfer via all the usual routes including Dropbox, Email and Airdrop.

Its not hard.

For years now if someone sends you a document Ive nowhere to put it on my phone unless I buy or download a free file storage app. They arent good and are a pain to manage. Apple could do a very simple folder system that would solve many issues.

A properly designed adaptor for a usb stick would be great too that you could view through in your documenta folder and transfer files between the phone and stick.

I know these things arent bery Apple and cloud will be the future someday, but as of now it seems like an important bit of functionality thats missing.

Not to mention with Apples talent for software design it will destroy Windows stale old file design and encourage even more business users over to Apple.

iFolder or iDocuments for iWorks.

----------

Steve Jobs didn't want users to manage or worry about a file system. Let the app do the saving and managing of files. Try Dropbox. That's what I use for pics and docs and such.

Fine if only a couple of photos but if you have a sizeable number of documents then dragging them around 3rd party apps is just cumbersome.

New Apple is actually more likely to do this as they are now goin for a more unified design where you dont have to waste time going through different apps and eindows just to find something.

joejoejoe
Sep 27, 2013, 05:05 PM
My parent is exactly opposite. They are looking for the device that really similar with desktop OS experience, because they don't have to learn the new OS. I still remember my father asking me that why he cannot download mp3 files, why he cannot transfer word document to his iPad.

Like I said, iOS isn't just about iPhone. You can argue phone need not be complicate, but this argument does not hold on iPad, unless you just want he blown up iPhone.

If your parents want an OS experience similar to a desktop OS, they should get a windows phone from the early 2000s. The iPhone was built to be the antithesis of the desktop experience. The whole reason the phone exists is to be anti desktop computing.

SakuraSuki
Sep 27, 2013, 11:05 PM
If your parents want an OS experience similar to a desktop OS, they should get a windows phone from the early 2000s. The iPhone was built to be the antithesis of the desktop experience. The whole reason the phone exists is to be anti desktop computing.

they do not need Windows Phone before 2000s. Everything beside iOS have basic file manager. Even BlackBerry OS 7 where I can simply download something and the files go to a centerlozed location.

seriously, I could not understand why anyone go against idea of file manager, it makes your life so much easier.

----------

Even the mere act of swiping through photos feels more natural on iOS than it does on Android.

Android gives you options and customizability, sure. iPhone gives you polish, and strives for transparency between the user and the content they're trying to reach. Two different flavors for different types of people.

care to explain how: act of swiping through photo feels more natural on iOS than it doss on Android? I feel exact differnet way. Android gives you nice big preview of your pictures and categorize all your picture by different sources. Swpping through picture on my Nexus 4 and Nexus 7 feel smooth and natural

pdqgp
Sep 27, 2013, 11:21 PM
seriously, I could not understand why anyone go against idea of file manager, it makes your life so much easier.


I agree. I use GoodReader on my iPad. Box and Skydrive both my iPad and phone too.

Nevaborn
Sep 28, 2013, 03:55 AM
I agree. I use GoodReader on my iPad. Box and Skydrive both my iPad and phone too.

We shouldnt need all this to store, view and edit documents. Just a simple file system.

Left > right in a drop down line format

Badge: showing type of document
File Name: ... Its the file name
File Format: shows if Word, Pages, JPEG, PDF etc...

Its not hard and very very easy to do. Essentially having a usb memory stick built in to the phone. That can be opened into the iWork apps.

The big need from it is for websites that allow uploading or browsing for an upload recognise this. Too many times I have wanted to upload to a forum and I cant as not on a PC.

This can literally be the simplest thing in iOS and it will just work. Which has to be Apples motto. It just works. Simple, fast and unobtrusive.

Abazigal
Sep 28, 2013, 05:34 AM
I was watching the Xiaomi phone keynote, and the introduction of a service called micloud. In a fundamental level, it looks like an amalgamation of google sync, shared photo stream and Dropbox.

I think that's what apple originally wanted to acquire Dropbox for. Something like google drive for the sharing of files.

That said, I have rarely ever felt the need for a file system. Most of the time, the app's innate sharing features more than suffice.

SakuraSuki
Sep 28, 2013, 07:43 AM
I was watching the Xiaomi phone keynote, and the introduction of a service called micloud. In a fundamental level, it looks like an amalgamation of google sync, shared photo stream and Dropbox.

I think that's what apple originally wanted to acquire Dropbox for. Something like google drive for the sharing of files.

That said, I have rarely ever felt the need for a file system. Most of the time, the app's innate sharing features more than suffice.

If I wish to share an image from a website to Instagram in Safari, I need first save it to Photo, open Instagram app, then use Instagram, then use built in file system to open the picture.

Take s other example, if I look at a PDF file in a webpage, I need to save it somewhere. I need a app to save it. If you happen to have more than one app reading PDF, then you have to remember which app contains that file.

File manager really solves all the hassle and enable you quickly complete a task. That's being said, you also need a better sharing system like Android. Otherwise, noting will make sense.

silver8ack
Sep 28, 2013, 08:06 AM
The problem is, we're the 20%. The 80/20 rule applies here. Apple has tailored a product that gives 80% of the people what they want.

robjulo
Sep 28, 2013, 08:30 AM
The problem is, we're the 20%. The 80/20 rule applies here. Apple has tailored a product that gives 80% of the people what they want.

So 80% of people don't add attachments to email? Maybe grandma doesn't, but I'd bet 100% of working professionals do.

silver8ack
Sep 28, 2013, 09:10 AM
So 80% of people don't add attachments to email? Maybe grandma doesn't, but I'd bet 100% of working professionals do.

80% of the people don't want or care about a file system.

Do you really think the majority of the people who have iPhones care or have any idea what a file system is?

robjulo
Sep 28, 2013, 09:15 AM
80% of the people don't want or care about a file system.

Do you really think the majority of the people who have iPhones care or have any idea what a file system is?

Not what I said. However, I do believe the majority of the people who have iPhones (other than grandmas or Hipsters working at Starbucks) have the need to attach files to emails without jumping through hoops.

silver8ack
Sep 28, 2013, 09:26 AM
Not what I said. However, I do believe the majority of the people who have iPhones (other than grandmas or Hipsters working at Starbucks) have the need to attach files to emails without jumping through hoops.

That is what you said and you completely missed my point. And apple's. And you're wrong. If people wanted all these options they'd get android. That's the plain truth whether you'd like to admit it or not.

robjulo
Sep 28, 2013, 09:29 AM
That is what you said and you completely missed my point. And apple's. And you're wrong. If people wanted all these options they'd get android. That's the plain truth whether you'd like to admit it or not.

I see. Anyone with any business productivity needs should stay away. Got it.

How anyone can justify the inability (without a workaround) to attach a file to an email (just like Apple currently ALREADY allows for photos) is lost on me.

scottytwo
Sep 28, 2013, 10:30 AM
No, they won't (ever do a normal file system). Just not how they roll.

Retired Cat
Sep 28, 2013, 11:31 AM
I see. Anyone with any business productivity needs should stay away. Got it.

How anyone can justify the inability (without a workaround) to attach a file to an email (just like Apple currently ALREADY allows for photos) is lost on me.

I have to agree with this. I find it silly that I can't easily attach a word document or PDF file. I can't believe that after all these years iOS still lacks this basic functionality.

haruhiko
Sep 28, 2013, 11:54 AM
I'm so sick and tired of iTunes, it's so moronic not to be able to simply copy a file to an iPhone or from an iPhone. The whole syncing thing is so broken and never gets better. Try to sync 2 or 3 devices on one Apple id and 2 or 3 iCloud accounts, what a mess... Incredible why such a powerful device is so limited by the stupid iTunes based system. Simply incredible...
Why can't I create folders and organize files or even photos the way I want?

I have to agree with this. I find it silly that I can't easily attach a word document or PDF file. I can't believe that after all these years iOS still lacks this basic functionality.

You can attach word / PDF documents to an e-mail from the apps that handle them, e.g. Pages (which is now free for new iOS devices), or GoodReader.

Zerilos
Sep 28, 2013, 11:57 AM
I'm so sick and tired of iTunes, it's so moronic not to be able to simply copy a file to an iPhone or from an iPhone. The whole syncing thing is so broken and never gets better. Try to sync 2 or 3 devices on one Apple id and 2 or 3 iCloud accounts, what a mess... Incredible why such a powerful device is so limited by the stupid iTunes based system. Simply incredible...
Why can't I create folders and organize files or even photos the way I want?

In large part It has to do with Apple's refusal to facilitate piracy. They are the anti-android in that regard. Android sells apps whose only function is to facilitate piracy, while Apple refuses to provide features with legit uses if they would make piracy easier.

gCloud
Sep 28, 2013, 11:59 AM
Once again: "There's an app for that."

Those of us who care have Dropbox. Or Files Pro. Or Stash. Or one of the dozens of other apps that let you store and sync files.

There is zero reason for Apple to try and force that on everyone as a default since those of us who need it already have it.

So, no, there will never be a straight iOS file system. What Apple DOES need to do is:

1) Increase the ability of apps to interact with each other beyond what they can do now. The more they do this the less I actually need or care about a file system in the first place.

2) To help out those of us who are using files, they should negotiate with Dropbox the way they work with Facebook. I should be able to log into DP on the OS-level and allow more apps to directly talk to it. (Many apps already do, but it would make things easier if that link-up was being handled by the OS and not each app individually.)

3) iCloud data needs a lot of expansion into sharing and syncing between different accounts and different apps. But I would honestly prefer to see Apple put their efforts into this instead of giving us an iOS file system.


Let's face it: Giving file systems to the general public was the worst mistake of the first home computer revolution. Leaving that out of the second go at it was the main reason iPads succeeded where tons of Windows tablets had failed again and again before.

I'm not saying abolish them (I'm a video editor, they're obviously essential for my work) but I am saying that file systems should be seen as a "Pro" feature that you have to install on purpose, not a default for everyone. This is how iOS treats it, and as long as they keep moving forward on my three ideas I'll be happy.

Being able to attach a file ( not a photo ) when replying to an e-mail, what app is there for that?

silver8ack
Sep 28, 2013, 12:47 PM
I see. Anyone with any business productivity needs should stay away. Got it.

How anyone can justify the inability (without a workaround) to attach a file to an email (just like Apple currently ALREADY allows for photos) is lost on me.
I'm not saying I agree with it. I'm telling you why they haven't/won't do it.

robjulo
Sep 28, 2013, 01:31 PM
You can attach word / PDF documents to an e-mail from the apps that handle them, e.g. Pages (which is now free for new iOS devices), or GoodReader.

No. You can start an email with those apps. You cannot use those apps to attach a document to an existing email thread, which is so basic, it is unfathomable why you cannot do it.

Nevaborn
Sep 28, 2013, 01:44 PM
80% of the people don't want or care about a file system.

Do you really think the majority of the people who have iPhones care or have any idea what a file system is?

Your talking rubbish.

There is no 80/20 %

Some maybe most are happy with how things are but I guarantee everyone would be happier with an actual file system when you can save things to and access them when needed.

It will bring much needed business functionality and fill a glaring gap in ios capability.

And as for your comment of majority of iPhone owners having a clue what a file system is says lots and is possibly one of the biggest face palm comments ive rea on Macrumors and theres been a few.

Jynto
Sep 28, 2013, 01:46 PM
If filesystems are so bad, why does OS X have one?

Small White Car
Sep 28, 2013, 01:50 PM
Being able to attach a file ( not a photo ) when replying to an e-mail, what app is there for that?

See point #1.

I can send files over email using many different apps, but I have to launch the app first. What I meant in #1 was specifically stuff like that: The apps need to have more permissions so that I can, as you said, do things like access them from a reply email without launching the app first.

silver8ack
Sep 28, 2013, 02:11 PM
Your talking rubbish.

There is no 80/20 %

Some maybe most are happy with how things are but I guarantee everyone would be happier with an actual file system when you can save things to and access them when needed.

It will bring much needed business functionality and fill a glaring gap in ios capability.

And as for your comment of majority of iPhone owners having a clue what a file system is says lots and is possibly one of the biggest face palm comments ive rea on Macrumors and theres been a few.

You're wrong. You just are.

I agree it would fill a gap. However in the grand scheme of apples strategy it's a very small gap. Hence the 80/20 rule. This is a real thing. It's is not rubbish. And it's a large part of why apple has been successful.

They don't give every option for a reason. This is across all their products. Think about it with a real brain and you'll see the truth.

gCloud
Sep 28, 2013, 03:53 PM
See point #1.

I can send files over email using many different apps, but I have to launch the app first. What I meant in #1 was specifically stuff like that: The apps need to have more permissions so that I can, as you said, do things like access them from a reply email without launching the app first.

can u reply to an email rather than generate an email from an app the cut cut cut,paste the addressee, the subject and then the body text?
I would really would appreciate a means of just replying to an email I receive then attaching a file ( .doc) to the reply. the .doc is already on my iOS device?

SakuraSuki
Sep 28, 2013, 04:27 PM
If filesystems are so bad, why does OS X have one?

It is not about OS X, it is about Apple really believe file system is evil. Job wants to get rid of file manager on OS X as well, but they could not because of professional use.

fullauto
Sep 28, 2013, 05:39 PM
They just need to package 'All my files' from OSX, done.

haruhiko
Sep 28, 2013, 08:01 PM
No. You can start an email with those apps. You cannot use those apps to attach a document to an existing email thread, which is so basic, it is unfathomable why you cannot do it.

To add value to your post, I did a little experiment:

First, I selected a file from Pages and tapped the Share button then "email document", an email with a PDF attachment was created;
Then, I clicked on the attachment and tapped on select, then cut (or copy if you like);
After that, I selected an email thread from my inbox and tapped reply;
And you guessed it right, I just long pressed on the email body and tapped Paste, and the attachment was pasted onto the email and I can reply with a attachment!

A bit troublesome, of course a system wide document folder will be good, but for now as least you CAN do it on iOS devices.

kas23
Sep 28, 2013, 08:13 PM
It is not about OS X, it is about Apple really believe file system is evil. Job wants to get rid of file manager on OS X as well, but they could not because of professional use.

But Jobs is dead now. And so is Jobs's version of Apple...and iOS (when Forstall left). I think we will see a centralized file system for iOS in the near future (next couple of years). They are holding back this feature because that's what Apple does. To keep excitement high for each iteration of iOS.

It may not be a Finder-like system where you can scroll through files and open them, but a system where the appropriate files can be viewed in the context of an app. And every app will be able to view the same files.

In fact, this can easily be done by tomorrow, without even modifying iOS. Just allow file storage in iCloud.

SakuraSuki
Sep 28, 2013, 08:53 PM
But Jobs is dead now. And so is Jobs's version of Apple...and iOS (when Forstall left). I think we will see a centralized file system for iOS in the near future (next couple of years). They are holding back this feature because that's what Apple does. To keep excitement high for each iteration of iOS.

It may not be a Finder-like system where you can scroll through files and open them, but a system where the appropriate files can be viewed in the context of an app. And every app will be able to view the same files.

In fact, this can easily be done by tomorrow, without even modifying iOS. Just allow file storage in iCloud.

Apple has being behind the curve for quite long time... From the copy and paste to multitasking. The thing is that iOS is so far behind now, it might be fallen as next BlackBerry.

One of the example could be iFile which is the best file manager in iOS. One thing however if Apple would make file manager it must improve the Apps sharing. If the APP sharing still very limited, then file manager is pointless

TheRealCBONE
Sep 29, 2013, 01:29 PM
In answer to OP: nope.

iOS is an app-cenric OS, it goes from app-> (file) -> app. With the file inaccessible to you outside of a particular app.
You aren't going to get what you want. If they do make a file manager, it won't work the way you want it to work and will drive you crazy with it's seemingly arbitrary limitations.

My documents, people dumping everything in C, and stupid default download locations for email with moronic temp names ruined the file management access for us.

Something like My Files could work, but it would create problems when people/devs started using it as a folderless dump.

calaverasgrande
Sep 29, 2013, 02:58 PM
If they do a file system, it will have to be abstract. They won't let people just browse the files on the device. It can be done though. The question is, how many people are asking for it? Apple will only attempt it if there is enough demand for it.
On the phones it is not such a big deal but with the ipads I really miss having filesystem. Sure you can jailbreak and use cydia or something for apps. But I'm more just sick of every office suite/cloud/content creation app having to re-invent the wheel so you can have some limited access to files.

calaverasgrande
Sep 29, 2013, 03:21 PM
Apple is a dictatorship. Proprietary ways have assured they have a captive user base.

Conversely Android is a breath of fresh air. One is able to do as they wish, creating exactly the right smartphone functionality for their workflow. While the platform had the normal bugs, annoyances et al during its early years, now with the arrival of Android ver 4.x.x it's mature, fast, fun, and very reliable.

An experience that easily equals that of iOS.
"dictatorship" seriously, that is an incredibly ignorant misuse of the word.
Nobody is being shot for jailbreaking their iphone.
Some folks appreciate the "walled garden" of IOS devices because it means they don't have to be fricking IT majors to use their phones.
Now of course Apple isn't perfect. It's still a pain to configure some email accounts.
I'd also add that Android is powerful and flexible and all that, but it really is an ugly OS. It just reminds me of Blackberry too much.
That and it is way too forked to be stable already. Every single Android I pick up has slightly different icons and slightly different settings.
Though that is the Wireless providers doing that I am sure.

macsrcool1234
Sep 29, 2013, 03:28 PM
I feel very confident in saying iOS8 will have some kind of accessible file system.

Sure, they won't call it a 'file system' but in nature it will be some kind of common storage area for apps. They've already expanded the sharing in between apps via actionsheets, this is the logical next step.

Nevaborn
Sep 29, 2013, 04:09 PM
In answer to OP: nope.

iOS is an app-cenric OS, it goes from app-> (file) -> app. With the file inaccessible to you outside of a particular app.
You aren't going to get what you want. If they do make a file manager, it won't work the way you want it to work and will drive you crazy with it's seemingly arbitrary limitations.

My documents, people dumping everything in C, and stupid default download locations for email with moronic temp names ruined the file management access for us.

Something like My Files could work, but it would create problems when people/devs started using it as a folderless dump.


It can work.

There already is a folder system, we just dont have access to it. apps are like shortcuts to it. all we need is access to a section of it that documents and files can be stored in. They could even get rid of the camera roll and combine it with that into a media app.where once inside the app it has sections for each type so you can see photos like you used to in the past or see pages/word/pdf documents etc.

there is soooo many ways they could implement a simple and highly functional file system thats usable by consumers instead of having to go through a variety of apps and copy and paste objects.

TheRealCBONE
Sep 29, 2013, 07:25 PM
It can work.

There already is a folder system, we just dont have access to it. apps are like shortcuts to it. all we need is access to a section of it that documents and files can be stored in. They could even get rid of the camera roll and combine it with that into a media app.where once inside the app it has sections for each type so you can see photos like you used to in the past or see pages/word/pdf documents etc.

there is soooo many ways they could implement a simple and highly functional file system thats usable by consumers instead of having to go through a variety of apps and copy and paste objects.

I'm sure that there will be so many hoops to jump through to get a powerful enough file manager that people would be happy with that they won't do it.

1. Would apps have access?
2. Where would their access begin and end?
3. Would there need to be dupes of files in the sandboxed app area?
4. If apps can create folders, what can they be called so they make sense to the app, the OS, and the user?

And so on, and so on. Not going to happen the way any power users want.

Nevaborn
Sep 30, 2013, 11:55 AM
I'm sure that there will be so many hoops to jump through to get a powerful enough file manager that people would be happy with that they won't do it.

1. Would apps have access?
2. Where would their access begin and end?
3. Would there need to be dupes of files in the sandboxed app area?
4. If apps can create folders, what can they be called so they make sense to the app, the OS, and the user?

And so on, and so on. Not going to happen the way any power users want.

1) Yes apps can save and open from the file folder.

2) The apps access would start and finish with opening editing and saving. For any sending and sharing I would rather users select the file in the file system and select it to be sent or added

3) No duplicates changes are saved back to the file in its only location within the system folder.

4) Apps do not create folders within the file system. It can only access documents in existing folders and save to existing folders.

I can literally see how to do this in my head, It's no harder and would function very similar to the photos app but you would have a folder with all created and received documents in.

It honestly is so easy. This would be THE feature of iOS 8 next year.

nikicampos
Sep 30, 2013, 12:49 PM
1) Yes apps can save and open from the file folder.

2) The apps access would start and finish with opening editing and saving. For any sending and sharing I would rather users select the file in the file system and select it to be sent or added

3) No duplicates changes are saved back to the file in its only location within the system folder.

4) Apps do not create folders within the file system. It can only access documents in existing folders and save to existing folders.

I can literally see how to do this in my head, It's no harder and would function very similar to the photos app but you would have a folder with all created and received documents in.

It honestly is so easy. This would be THE feature of iOS 8 next year.

No thanks, that would open the door for viruses..

Amazes me how some kids want to change Apple and point out how they do things wrong, "we need a file system", "let me tell you how it should be" blah blah blah, if you don't like it, go away, if you so desperately want a file system go to Android.

The majority of Apple user do not want a file system or ridiculous stuff.

Apple is doing things right..
http://www.macrumors.com/2013/09/30/apple-tops-coca-cola-google-to-become-worlds-most-valuable-brand/

FlatlinerG
Sep 30, 2013, 12:52 PM
I don't see the point to a file system for iOS. You don't browse files like you would on a computer, so it would serve no purpose other than to make things overly complicated and/or redundant.

Nevaborn
Sep 30, 2013, 03:00 PM
No thanks, that would open the door for viruses..

Amazes me how some kids want to change Apple and point out how they do things wrong, "we need a file system", "let me tell you how it should be" blah blah blah, if you don't like it, go away, if you so desperately want a file system go to Android.

The majority of Apple user do not want a file system or ridiculous stuff.

Apple is doing things right..
http://www.macrumors.com/2013/09/30/apple-tops-coca-cola-google-to-become-worlds-most-valuable-brand/

First of all don't address me as kid, if you want someone to take you seriously don't be condescending.

Secondly it won't open anything up to viruses, if you had any comprehension of what's being discussed you would understand whats being discussed is nothing that doesn't already exist its simply a folder that collates all the files that are on te phone or are created by it. No more dangerous than opening a safari page.

The fact you say leave things how they are like iOS is perfect and theres no room for expansion or improvement and anyone who cares or wants to try to make it an even better immersive operating system should go away to Android just says more about you being a clueless fanboy and by saying the majority don't want this means YOU don't want this and what you don't want isn't allowed as iOS is all yours and it's future is decided by you.

>.>

In future if you don't know whats being discussed it would be less painful if you just don't reply.

kaielement
Sep 30, 2013, 03:10 PM
It's called jailbreaking lol......

Nevaborn
Sep 30, 2013, 03:16 PM
I don't see the point to a file system for iOS. You don't browse files like you would on a computer, so it would serve no purpose other than to make things overly complicated and/or redundant.

Things are overly complicated now having to copy and paste into emails and having to remember what apps contain which documents. A centralised folder for all documents and media will just make receiving documents and working on them on iPhones and iPads that much better.

iPhones are gaining popularity in the business world and need functionality to represent this without constantly entrusting important information to 3rd party solutions to pick up where Apple fails.

It's where the company needs to look for the future, they need to compete with the competition on more than a UI and the look of a device. That will not be enough in the near future as we do far far more on the go.

Style and simplicity in design is what sets Apple apart but they can't keep playing catch up in what we can do with these devices. Not everyone wants it and there should be nothing in a file system that effects the way people interact currently with iOS but those that use iPhones for more than Facebook and Youtube videos this will be a beneficial extra tool to have someone where you can find everything.

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It's called jailbreaking lol......

Jailbreaking should be unnecessary and that does allow vulnerabilities so is mot ideal and doesn't make up for what Apple should implement.

That said those that want to and are happy having the security levels similar to googles store then enjoy =)

Razeus
Sep 30, 2013, 03:33 PM
The whole iOS 7 expereince is bizarre to me. I have a 4th gen iPad and I can't stand to barely use it. They "style" of the iOS isn't very fitting for me. I wish they would have let us pick a theme (in my case I would have went with darker colors and tones). But instead, I have to look at the Music app and its pink lettering...

I may just complete my mobile transition and get a Nexus 7 or 10 along with my S4. The main reason I went to Android was for the file system and built in sharing capabilities (no more waiting on Apple to add sharing to apps by partner with whoever they feel is a good choice - the choice is now mine). I love the fact that I can load a word document to my phone, open it, work on it, and email it right from whatever app I'm in (at this time QuickOffice) or just upload it to Dropbox without ever leaving the app. Even if I did leave the app, I can go to my phones files app and email/upload from there.

This is the area I feel Apple can REALLY improve on instead of locking everything down so much. "Open In..." isn't the solution. I really wish I didn't upgrade to iOS 7.

Sensamic
Sep 30, 2013, 03:35 PM
If they ever were going to do it they would have done it already, so no, they won't ever do it.

Just go WP8 or Android. Why stick with something you don't like?

nikicampos
Sep 30, 2013, 04:19 PM
First of all don't address me as kid, if you want someone to take you seriously don't be condescending.

Secondly it won't open anything up to viruses, if you had any comprehension of what's being discussed you would understand whats being discussed is nothing that doesn't already exist its simply a folder that collates all the files that are on te phone or are created by it. No more dangerous than opening a safari page.

The fact you say leave things how they are like iOS is perfect and theres no room for expansion or improvement and anyone who cares or wants to try to make it an even better immersive operating system should go away to Android just says more about you being a clueless fanboy and by saying the majority don't want this means YOU don't want this and what you don't want isn't allowed as iOS is all yours and it's future is decided by you.

>.>

In future if you don't know whats being discussed it would be less painful if you just don't reply.

I never said leave things the way they are, did I? I love the changes made to iOS 7 and trust me, I'm not missing a file system and the majority isn't either.

All I'm saying is leave the changes to Apple, they have some experts in technology, design and one or two in marketing.

If liking what a company does makes me a "fanboy", then maybe I am a fanboy for some companies like Mercedes-Benz, Apple, Sony, Band & Olufsen, Bose.

This companies and some others do things that I like, the way I like it, the moment this companies start doing things differently and not the way I like, I'll start looking for some other company that meets my needs.

Before I start complaining about a company in a forum (boo-hoo) I much rather spend that time looking for an alternative.

D.T.
Sep 30, 2013, 04:36 PM
If they ever were going to do it they would have done it already, so no, they won't ever do it.


I suspect we'll see something in the not too distant future - we're expecting more and more out of our "post-PC" devices, and there are some workflow constraints that are going to need a solution before iOS nears OSX (I think the "convergence" will occur from iOS moving forward, not OSX moving backwards).

Not a totally exposed filesystem (since some primary sub-systems are handled through a FS+meta-DB), but some kind of centralized, "catalog", that exposes file types through a public API. I could see the SDK offering a public and private storage (the latter being the sandbox type model that's currently implemented), but by putting content in the public/shared context, apps that register against the same content-type can open them (like a desktop OS ... iOS has part of this already: the "open in" where an app can register to open specific file types, just not the same unique instance of the file...)

Just my $0.02. :cool:

FlatlinerG
Oct 1, 2013, 06:29 AM
Things are overly complicated now having to copy and paste into emails and having to remember what apps contain which documents. A centralised folder for all documents and media will just make receiving documents and working on them on iPhones and iPads that much better.

iPhones are gaining popularity in the business world and need functionality to represent this without constantly entrusting important information to 3rd party solutions to pick up where Apple fails.

It's where the company needs to look for the future, they need to compete with the competition on more than a UI and the look of a device. That will not be enough in the near future as we do far far more on the go.

Style and simplicity in design is what sets Apple apart but they can't keep playing catch up in what we can do with these devices. Not everyone wants it and there should be nothing in a file system that effects the way people interact currently with iOS but those that use iPhones for more than Facebook and Youtube videos this will be a beneficial extra tool to have someone where you can find everything.


What's the difference between having to remember what app something is in and which folder something is in? I'm sorry but you have a pretty weak argument for why it's needed. The problem here is your own memory not with how the device functions.

So I have this pages document on my iPad, I wonder what app it could be in...:rolleyes:

Damn, where did I save that photo?

Introducing a file system does nothing other than appease the people who complain about needing one. The same people who complain about everything else with iOS and Apple devices.

joejoejoe
Oct 1, 2013, 06:08 PM
they do not need Windows Phone before 2000s. Everything beside iOS have basic file manager. Even BlackBerry OS 7 where I can simply download something and the files go to a centerlozed location.

seriously, I could not understand why anyone go against idea of file manager, it makes your life so much easier.

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care to explain how: act of swiping through photo feels more natural on iOS than it doss on Android? I feel exact differnet way. Android gives you nice big preview of your pictures and categorize all your picture by different sources. Swpping through picture on my Nexus 4 and Nexus 7 feel smooth and natural

Then they should get a different phone. A file system is against apple's philosophy for mobile.

Swiping with inertia is more natural than swiping without it.

A question for you: do you like to complain? Do you like to be angry? Do you like to be negative? Do you like using products you don't like?

SakuraSuki
Oct 2, 2013, 08:58 AM
Then they should get a different phone. A file system is against apple's philosophy for mobile.

Swiping with inertia is more natural than swiping without it.

A question for you: do you like to complain? Do you like to be angry? Do you like to be negative? Do you like using products you don't like?

They don't need make a new phone. You know Apple will implement some short of file manager in future. Apple said smaller tablet is DOA, they did it. Apple said 3.5 inch phone is the best size, yet they increased the size. Apple said multitasking is bad, yet they did limited multitasking.

And sorry, I still cannot see how swiping on iOS is more natural than Android. I certainly don't when comparing iOS devices with Android devices,

And to asnwer your question: yes, I like to complain. I believe customers have all the right to complain. Apple will not change without customer's complain. And no I do not like to be angry. I just don't like how people here have all short of extreme biased toward Android and all short of false claim about Android.

And I do not hate iOS devices, I think all iOS devices (beside iPhone 5C) are beautiful and durable. But software side is very lacking. I do not like Android hardware, but I like Android as software more than iOS as software.

So heads up, I tell you my perfect combination: Apple hardware with Android software. You get the best hardware in the entire planet and all the freedom you get with Android software.

Zaft
Oct 2, 2013, 09:32 AM
I don't atach PDFs very often if it all. But when I have to it is annoying

joejoejoe
Oct 2, 2013, 06:33 PM
They don't need make a new phone. You know Apple will implement some short of file manager in future. Apple said smaller tablet is DOA, they did it. Apple said 3.5 inch phone is the best size, yet they increased the size. Apple said multitasking is bad, yet they did limited multitasking.

And sorry, I still cannot see how swiping on iOS is more natural than Android. I certainly don't when comparing iOS devices with Android devices,

And to asnwer your question: yes, I like to complain. I believe customers have all the right to complain. Apple will not change without customer's complain. And no I do not like to be angry. I just don't like how people here have all short of extreme biased toward Android and all short of false claim about Android.

And I do not hate iOS devices, I think all iOS devices (beside iPhone 5C) are beautiful and durable. But software side is very lacking. I do not like Android hardware, but I like Android as software more than iOS as software.

So heads up, I tell you my perfect combination: Apple hardware with Android software. You get the best hardware in the entire planet and all the freedom you get with Android software.

Of course you have a right to complain as a consumer. That's what the majority of this forum does, provide a place for people to complain and voice the shortcomings of the product.

But your complaining has never been productive, only entitled and short tempered. And therefore it's been incredibly annoying. You don't seem to be happy at all with the product you're using, and seem to find more value in being upset, angry, and maintaining your "rights" rather than offering productive solutions and opening up the floor for a good back and forth and healthy conversation.

Instead, you state your POV and leave it that way, and seemingly nothing can help inform, improve, or complicate it. It's a very childish way to act.

You asked if they're every going to do a normal file system. The answer is most likely no, as it seems to be against Apple's entire philosophy of iOS. You can't really compare the size of a product in the same way. That's a physical change, whereas a change to the software is more grounded in philosophy.

If Apple wanted to add more buttons to the hardware, that would be a groundbreaking philosophical change akin to adding a file system. Is the current method bad? Yes! It's painful to have to save a pdf to iBooks and then email it out. There must be a better way. But Apple is clearly trying to steer clear of the hierarchical folder system and come up with a better method. There's definitely room for more intuitive organization, preferably handled by the phone itself, but normal folders that you're used to on a desktop won't happen.

SakuraSuki
Oct 2, 2013, 11:25 PM
Of course you have a right to complain as a consumer. That's what the majority of this forum does, provide a place for people to complain and voice the shortcomings of the product.

But your complaining has never been productive, only entitled and short tempered. And therefore it's been incredibly annoying. You don't seem to be happy at all with the product you're using, and seem to find more value in being upset, angry, and maintaining your "rights" rather than offering productive solutions and opening up the floor for a good back and forth and healthy conversation.

Instead, you state your POV and leave it that way, and seemingly nothing can help inform, improve, or complicate it. It's a very childish way to act.

You asked if they're every going to do a normal file system. The answer is most likely no, as it seems to be against Apple's entire philosophy of iOS. You can't really compare the size of a product in the same way. That's a physical change, whereas a change to the software is more grounded in philosophy.

If Apple wanted to add more buttons to the hardware, that would be a groundbreaking philosophical change akin to adding a file system. Is the current method bad? Yes! It's painful to have to save a pdf to iBooks and then email it out. There must be a better way. But Apple is clearly trying to steer clear of the hierarchical folder system and come up with a better method. There's definitely room for more intuitive organization, preferably handled by the phone itself, but normal folders that you're used to on a desktop won't happen.

Really? I have given lots of suggestion on improving iOS. Face it, iOS is far behind the game and it is not even funny. iOS makes most basic operating extremely annoying and complicated. the whole OS still based on old philosophy. In fact, you can hardly call iOS as an modern OS anymore.

If you look my post, my major annoyance is software. I have never said anything negative about the hardware. Apple hardware is the best at its class, but the software is not the best. If not with the huge amount of app and load of money people spent on the ecosystem, iOS would fall fairly quickly,

Face the reality, Android is catching up fast with vertical integration of all Google's service and selection to quality apps plus quality selection of apps. Before Apple figuring out better solution, if not forever, file.app is clearly best way to go.

Apple seriously need implement some short of file management app. It is not only me calling this feature, lots of people want file manger. I remember there was a article on imore.com talking about file.app. Apple also need to implement better app sharing option. Limitation of default core application seriously making things complicated.

redscull
Oct 2, 2013, 11:43 PM
I don't want a traditional file system, personally. But I do want my phone to store more than just picture type files. It should store lots of file types in some "cloud" library, and then different apps can decide which file types they interact with and ask for access to those types. So all apps that know how to display and edit .txt files can access the same pool of .txt files on my phone. Just like currently all imaging apps can access the same pool of .jpg/etc files on my phone.

Then the step it needs to go to next is simply letting me categorize my files. This is like subfolders in the file system world, except really it's just labels. It's not important to me where the file is physically located, so long as I see it when I am viewing one of the categories I've assigned it to.

App devs should have the option to either store data privately in the app's sandbox (their only option currently when not interfacing with something like dropbox) or write to the phone's shared file pool.

joejoejoe
Oct 3, 2013, 12:27 AM
Really? I have given lots of suggestion on improving iOS. Face it, iOS is far behind the game and it is not even funny. iOS makes most basic operating extremely annoying and complicated. the whole OS still based on old philosophy. In fact, you can hardly call iOS as an modern OS anymore.

If you look my post, my major annoyance is software. I have never said anything negative about the hardware. Apple hardware is the best at its class, but the software is not the best. If not with the huge amount of app and load of money people spent on the ecosystem, iOS would fall fairly quickly,

Face the reality, Android is catching up fast with vertical integration of all Google's service and selection to quality apps plus quality selection of apps. Before Apple figuring out better solution, if not forever, file.app is clearly best way to go.

Apple seriously need implement some short of file management app. It is not only me calling this feature, lots of people want file manger. I remember there was a article on imore.com talking about file.app. Apple also need to implement better app sharing option. Limitation of default core application seriously making things complicated.

Thank you for proving my point.

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I don't want a traditional file system, personally. But I do want my phone to store more than just picture type files. It should store lots of file types in some "cloud" library, and then different apps can decide which file types they interact with and ask for access to those types. So all apps that know how to display and edit .txt files can access the same pool of .txt files on my phone. Just like currently all imaging apps can access the same pool of .jpg/etc files on my phone.

Then the step it needs to go to next is simply letting me categorize my files. This is like subfolders in the file system world, except really it's just labels. It's not important to me where the file is physically located, so long as I see it when I am viewing one of the categories I've assigned it to.

App devs should have the option to either store data privately in the app's sandbox (their only option currently when not interfacing with something like dropbox) or write to the phone's shared file pool.

Agreed.

MisakixMikasa
Oct 3, 2013, 09:30 AM
I don't want a traditional file system, personally. But I do want my phone to store more than just picture type files. It should store lots of file types in some "cloud" library, and then different apps can decide which file types they interact with and ask for access to those types. So all apps that know how to display and edit .txt files can access the same pool of .txt files on my phone. Just like currently all imaging apps can access the same pool of .jpg/etc files on my phone.

Then the step it needs to go to next is simply letting me categorize my files. This is like subfolders in the file system world, except really it's just labels. It's not important to me where the file is physically located, so long as I see it when I am viewing one of the categories I've assigned it to.

App devs should have the option to either store data privately in the app's sandbox (their only option currently when not interfacing with something like dropbox) or write to the phone's shared file pool.

If you ever jailbroken your iDevice before, iFile is the best example. There is a traditional file system on OS level and sandboxed app as well. You just cannot see it.

However, without jailbreak, file manager cannot access the root directory. Without that, opening different types of files will depends on share sheet, however, iOS is very restrictive on share sheet. Default core application have very limited option and it is depends on app developer to add support for different app.

It is just easier for everyone and developer for a root accessible file manager.

cmichaelb
Oct 3, 2013, 10:09 AM
It looks like dumbing down is the new Apple way of doing everything...
But they somehow are not able to see that "simple" becomes way more complicated that complicated once was...

It's been that way since iPhone OS 1. heck, you couldn't even create documents nor was there an app store. Things have gotten WAY better, but there is room for improvement.

I don't think its needed. Some people sound like they need a file system for the sake of having a file system. iCloud works great, iTunes for music, Photo stream works great too.

I agree. Although, being able to start an email then have a file repository would be helpful. I don;t understand all the slaggin on iTunes. It has improved so much, especially on the Windows side. My entire library is close to 600GB and it handles it very well.

Sometimes a file system could be useful .... but what I'm looking for, and maybe could be enough for most of the people here, is a proper "My Documents" folder.

Yep, that is all that is really needed, so any app can access the files.

Glad this works for you. Problem is that this for the most part only works in Apple only environments.

Example: try sending a simple photo (family snapshot) to a grandparent or friend with a PC (yes, they exist). My iphone can't do that. It inserts every photo as an inline photo and Apple applies non-industry standards formats obviously. Exif data is incomplete, files show up upside down or sideways, naming is always reduced to the same default file name, etc.

The answer can't be that only will things be great if everyone owns and operates Apple devices. And I'm not willing to send grandpa dropbox links because Apple doesn't want to give us a few more very simple, safe and established OPTIONS. Such as sending a picture or video as a standard attachment.

Hogwash. What non industry standards? Jpegs? I do this all the time, and no one has trouble viewing the pics or seeing them right side up. Everyone I know is on a pc and never has this issue. What Windows version is grandma or your friends running? I use a pc and a mac and the experience is the same in this regard.

iFolder is what I want.

Where all documents can be saved, viewed and edited by opening in to Pages, Keynote, numbers. then it can be saved back to iFolder and uploaded to the internet and email and airdrop and various other storage platforms.

The ability for ifolder to be recognised by websites and to browse and upload files through them would be a necessity.

Any app should be able to save docs/pics to that folder. I think we all agree at the very least, this would be a big help.

I don't see the point to a file system for iOS. You don't browse files like you would on a computer, so it would serve no purpose other than to make things overly complicated and/or redundant.

Exactly. If you take the time to post on a mac rumors forum, you are in the minority of users. Apple keeps it simple for the 80-90% or users who need just that. We are in the extreme minority of users and can't judge a business on catering to the very few.

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A repository of some sort is coming, there is too much of a need for apps to share documents, yet Apple is a notoriously slow mover sometimes. With Jobs and Forstall gone, the major roadblocks to this change are gone., R.I.P.