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Can you justify Apple's restriction on rolling back to early iOS?

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SakuraSuki

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Jul 18, 2013
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We live in a free society, we are entitled to have choice. You choice whoever is your president, you choice whether Android, iOS, BlackBerry or whatever. We ask for freedom and we see freedom of choice is important part of our society. However, this choice is suddenly not applicable for Apple.

Seriously, I brought the god damn device, I have freedom on destroying it, abuse it, cook it, using it, rollback to older version of iOS, upgrading to newer iOS if I wish to. Why should Apple impose restriction on rolling back to older version? What is the reason behind it? Keep user not rolling back to older version so that it appears everybody are using he latest version of OS?

Yes, some people updated to iOS 7 and yes there are people do not like it. And yes people should read the description before install it. People think the fault is the customer should seriously think for a moment.

If I buy a PC or Mac, I have the freedom on choice my OS... I can install Windows 7, Windows 8 or early Windows XP. I can install Lion, Mountain Lion p, Linux, Windows on my Mac as well. Why should iDevice be any different? I can change just about everything on my Android devices if I am willing to,

Everybody defending Apple on this matter should agree government strip away your freedom of speech, freedom of choice. Because not allowing customer choice whichever versions of iOS is same as take away of my right of choice

UPDATE 1: I am suggesting that Apple should keep the downgrade window open, BUT I am not suggesting Apple need to support old device.

UPDATE 2: For all your hate, what is harm cost to YOU, if Apple allow downgrade? There are people run into problems with iOS 7 and they want go back. What about these people?
 
Last edited:
Tyler23

Tyler23

macrumors 603
Dec 2, 2010
5,664
159
Atlanta, GA
SakuraSuki said:
We live in a free society, we are entitled to have choice. You choice whoever is your president, you choice whether Android, iOS, BlackBerry or whatever. We ask for freedom and we see freedom of choice is important part of our society. However, this choice is suddenly not applicable for Apple.

Seriously, I brought the god damn device, I have freedom on destroying it, abuse it, cook it, using it, rollback to older version of iOS, upgrading to newer iOS if I wish to. Why should Apple impose restriction on rolling back to older version? What is the reason behind it? Keep user not rolling back to older version so that it appears everybody are using he latest version of OS?

Yes, some people updated to iOS 7 and yes there are people do not like it. And yes people should read the description before install it. People think the fault is the customer should seriously think for a moment.

If I buy a PC or Mac, I have the freedom on choice my OS... I can install Windows 7, Windows 8 or early Windows XP. I can install Lion, Mountain Lion p, Linux, Windows on my Mac as well. Why should iDevice be any different? I can change just about everything on my Android devices if I am willing to,

Everybody defending Apple on this matter should agree government strip away your freedom of speech, freedom of choice. Because not allowing customer choice whichever versions of iOS is same as take away of my right of choice
Click to expand...

1) Yes, doing their best to keep everyone on the latest version of iOS means easier implementation of security updates, bug fixes, etc..It's much easier for them to maintain one version of iOS than several. It makes perfect sense and is absolutely reasonable for a company to do it's best to get everyone onto the latest version of their software - really makes security and bug fix implementation that much easier.

2) iOS is Apple's software - they can do whatever they want with it.

3) Yes, you do have freedom. You're free to choose a different device. You do not need to buy an iPhone.
 
C

C DM

macrumors Sandy Bridge
Oct 17, 2011
51,390
19,458
It's most likely due to simplicity/security/support type of reasons. They don't have to support older versions with newer security updates that way, or even with all that much support period (except for devices that can't go beyond a certain version).

They would also have to work out much more robust ways to restore backups when going back and forth between versions where things might not be supported. Lots of data loss and corruption can take place if that's not done properly, which would require a whole lot more investment into that on Apple's part.
 
S

SakuraSuki

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Jul 18, 2013
469
0
Tyler23 said:
1) Yes, doing their best to keep everyone on the latest version of iOS means easier implementation of security updates, bug fixes, etc..It's much easier for them to maintain one version of iOS than several.

2) iOS is Apple's software - they can do whatever they want with it.

3) Yes, you do have freedom. You're free to choose a different device. You do not need to buy an iPhone.
Click to expand...

1) So in the same time, they try their best to force people stay on latest OS so they can mocking Android on stage. Seriously, Microsoft does not do that and support multiple OS at same time, I don't see how Apple could not.

2) So instead of making customer happy and offer them ability to restore, you just kick them out of windows and tell them: hey you don't have to choice our product, there are fancy Android out there, go buy then hurry!
 
S

SakuraSuki

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Jul 18, 2013
469
0
C DM said:
It's most likely due to simplicity/security/support type of reasons. They don't have to support older versions with newer security updates that way, or even with all that much support period (except for devices that can't go beyond a certain version).

They would also have to work out much more robust ways to restore backups when going back and forth between versions where things might not be supported. Lots of data loss and corruption can take place if that's not done properly, which would require a whole lot more investment into that on Apple's part.
Click to expand...

Apple should make it loud and clear: If you want ability to rollback, you can, but we will not responsible for data loss or anything happen during the process. Downgrading process is fairly simple anyway.

If Apple could support 3 OS X at same time, Microsoft could support multiple OS at same time, then Apple should able to support multiple iOS as well.

You might bring Microsoft not supporting downgrade OS as well. If it is true, then the same thing can said to Microsoft as well.
 
Tyler23

Tyler23

macrumors 603
Dec 2, 2010
5,664
159
Atlanta, GA
SakuraSuki said:
1) So in the same time, they try their best to force people stay on latest OS so they can mocking Android on stage. Seriously, Microsoft does not do that and support multiple OS at same time, I don't see how Apple could not.

2) So instead of making customer happy and offer them ability to restore, you just kick them out of windows and tell them: hey you don't have to choice our product, there are fancy Android out there, go buy then hurry!
Click to expand...

1) That's not the reasoning - and even still, many Android devices are obselete very quickly, some are released and already will never be able to run the latest version of Android.

2) They're not kicking anyone out. And, this system has been the same for 6 years, look how well the iPhone is still doing (I'll give you a hint, much better than your beloved Android.)
 
Shrink

Shrink

macrumors G3
Feb 26, 2011
8,929
1,727
New England, USA
SakuraSuki said:
We live in a free society, we are entitled to have choice. You choice whoever is your president, you choice whether Android, iOS, BlackBerry or whatever. We ask for freedom and we see freedom of choice is important part of our society. However, this choice is suddenly not applicable for Apple.

Seriously, I brought the god damn device, I have freedom on destroying it, abuse it, cook it, using it, rollback to older version of iOS, upgrading to newer iOS if I wish to. Why should Apple impose restriction on rolling back to older version? What is the reason behind it? Keep user not rolling back to older version so that it appears everybody are using he latest version of OS?

Yes, some people updated to iOS 7 and yes there are people do not like it. And yes people should read the description before install it. People think the fault is the customer should seriously think for a moment.

If I buy a PC or Mac, I have the freedom on choice my OS... I can install Windows 7, Windows 8 or early Windows XP. I can install Lion, Mountain Lion p, Linux, Windows on my Mac as well. Why should iDevice be any different? I can change just about everything on my Android devices if I am willing to,

Everybody defending Apple on this matter should agree government strip away your freedom of speech, freedom of choice. Because not allowing customer choice whichever versions of iOS is same as take away of my right of choice
Click to expand...

Comparing the freedom to choose a cell phone and it's operating system, to freedom of speech, is incredibly specious. A phone, put in any kind of perspective, is trivial. Freedom of speech is fundamental to liberty.

The analogies and comparisons in the post are, IMO, ridiculous and totally lacking in any sense of perspective or appreciation of what is important, and what is trivial and unimportant.
 
A

atteligibility

macrumors regular
Sep 14, 2012
223
2
SakuraSuki said:
We live in a free society, we are entitled to have choice. You choice whoever is your president, you choice whether Android, iOS, BlackBerry or whatever. We ask for freedom and we see freedom of choice is important part of our society. However, this choice is suddenly not applicable for Apple.

Seriously, I brought the god damn device, I have freedom on destroying it, abuse it, cook it, using it, rollback to older version of iOS, upgrading to newer iOS if I wish to. Why should Apple impose restriction on rolling back to older version? What is the reason behind it? Keep user not rolling back to older version so that it appears everybody are using he latest version of OS?

Yes, some people updated to iOS 7 and yes there are people do not like it. And yes people should read the description before install it. People think the fault is the customer should seriously think for a moment.

If I buy a PC or Mac, I have the freedom on choice my OS... I can install Windows 7, Windows 8 or early Windows XP. I can install Lion, Mountain Lion p, Linux, Windows on my Mac as well. Why should iDevice be any different? I can change just about everything on my Android devices if I am willing to,

Everybody defending Apple on this matter should agree government strip away your freedom of speech, freedom of choice. Because not allowing customer choice whichever versions of iOS is same as take away of my right of choice
Click to expand...

What did you smoke man?

Your analysis is so wrong though. iDevices are precisely a combination of hardware/software proposed in a way that is the most user friendly for 95% of its users. iDevices were never meant as fully customizable devices that you could easily break by trying to make them better. You would think it was well documented since the inception of the iPhone that you can't replace a battery, add an SD card, install flash... all those things, and that whoever had a problem with those limitations should not invest in these devices. It sounds like you didn't do your homework, if you got an iDevice, thinking you could customize it to no limit...

You also don't seem to grasp the concept of free society too well, I guess you're that neighbor that burns tires in your backyard, just because you can, because it's a free country...
 
Arran

Arran

macrumors 601
Mar 7, 2008
4,847
3,779
Atlanta, USA
One explanation: It's a connected device that relies on 3rd party apps.

Imagine you have an app that stores your data online somewhere. It may be that when you upgrade to a later version of the app (on a later version of iOS) your data gets irrevocably migrated to a newer (better) format that is incompatible with older versions of the app.

So if you downgrade your iOS, and then roll back to the earlier version of the app, your online data may be unintelligible to the old app: Disaster.

Multiply it by the number of 3rd party apps (over which Apple has no control) and you can see how this would create a ton of issues and attendant bad publicity for the iOS platform.
 
Julien

Julien

macrumors G4
Jun 30, 2007
11,835
5,432
Atlanta
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press, or allowing Apple to force you to stay on an iOS update; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

Actually the OP has a point.:D
 
S

SakuraSuki

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Jul 18, 2013
469
0
atteligibility said:
What did you smoke man?

Your analysis is so wrong though. iDevices are precisely a combination of hardware/software proposed in a way that is the most user friendly for 95% of its users. iDevices were never meant as fully customizable devices that you could easily break by trying to make them better. You would think it was well documented since the inception of the iPhone that you can't replace a battery, add an SD card, install flash... all those things, and that whoever had a problem with those limitations should not invest in these devices. It sounds like you didn't do your homework, if you got an iDevice, thinking you could customize it to no limit...

You also don't seem to grasp the concept of free society too well, I guess you're that neighbor that burns tires in your backyard, just because you can, because it's a free country...
Click to expand...

Well, iDevice us about combination of hardware or software. Yes, it is true. I am not even suggesting on install Android on iDevice and I am sure some people want do that. I am suggesting that user should able to downgrade to early version of iOS that was DESIGNED for that device.

Apple could design phone with non-removable battery, no SD card or whatever, that is fine, but not allow user to rollback to early version is not fine. iOS 6 was designed for iDevice, so user should able to rollback if they DISLIKE iOS 7.

Also, striping my ability of downgrading is as equal as stripping my liberty. Because you don't have the liberty choice in this case. Anything can be small and big at same time.
 
Armen

Armen

macrumors 604
Apr 30, 2013
7,405
2,274
Los Angeles
SakuraSuki said:
We live in a free society, we are entitled to have choice. You choice whoever is your president, you choice whether Android, iOS, BlackBerry or whatever. We ask for freedom and we see freedom of choice is important part of our society. However, this choice is suddenly not applicable for Apple.

Seriously, I brought the god damn device, I have freedom on destroying it, abuse it, cook it, using it, rollback to older version of iOS, upgrading to newer iOS if I wish to. Why should Apple impose restriction on rolling back to older version? What is the reason behind it? Keep user not rolling back to older version so that it appears everybody are using he latest version of OS?

Yes, some people updated to iOS 7 and yes there are people do not like it. And yes people should read the description before install it. People think the fault is the customer should seriously think for a moment.

If I buy a PC or Mac, I have the freedom on choice my OS... I can install Windows 7, Windows 8 or early Windows XP. I can install Lion, Mountain Lion p, Linux, Windows on my Mac as well. Why should iDevice be any different? I can change just about everything on my Android devices if I am willing to,

Everybody defending Apple on this matter should agree government strip away your freedom of speech, freedom of choice. Because not allowing customer choice whichever versions of iOS is same as take away of my right of choice
Click to expand...

You clicked "I AGREE" to Apple's software terms and conditions. They call the shots not you. Don't like it? don't use the software. That's what a software agreement is.
 
Arran

Arran

macrumors 601
Mar 7, 2008
4,847
3,779
Atlanta, USA
SakuraSuki said:
Apple should make it loud and clear: If you want ability to rollback, you can, but we will not responsible for data loss or anything happen during the process. Downgrading process is fairly simple anyway.
Click to expand...

Are you speaking from experience that the downgrading process is simple? Have you done it?
 
S

SakuraSuki

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Jul 18, 2013
469
0
Shrink said:
Comparing the freedom to choose a cell phone and it's operating system, to freedom of speech, is incredibly specious. A phone, put in any kind of perspective, is trivial. Freedom of speech is fundamental to liberty.

The analogies and comparisons in the post are, IMO, ridiculous and totally lacking in any sense of perspective or appreciation of what is important, and what is trivial and unimportant.
Click to expand...

It is not at same degree, but it is essentially the same. Your freedom had taken away by a corporation,
 
N

Nothlit

macrumors regular
Sep 14, 2009
242
18
Security vulnerabilities are also patched in nearly every major iOS update. Rolling back would open your device up to those vulnerabilities that still exist in the older versions.

The fact of the matter is, Apple regularly updates iOS. Anyone who's even vaguely paying attention should know this. If you don't like it, either buy some other product that doesn't provide updates or simply don't install iOS updates. Just get used to ignoring the little red dot on the Settings app.
 
Tyler23

Tyler23

macrumors 603
Dec 2, 2010
5,664
159
Atlanta, GA
SakuraSuki said:
It is not at same degree, but it is essentially the same. Your freedom had taken away by a corporation,
Click to expand...

Your freedom seems to be fine, you're here posting away with your complaints.

iOS is licensed by Apple. You agree to the Terms and Conditions. The user clicks install and update for iOS 7, and are given information about the software beforehand.

I don't see the issue here. You seem to often post about the greatness of Android and Blackberry, I'm confused why you're even on this site.
 
S

SakuraSuki

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Jul 18, 2013
469
0
Arran said:
Are you speaking from experience that the downgrading process is simple? Have you done it?
Click to expand...

Rollback is very easy. If you have ever loaded beta version of iOS, you know how easy to rollback to pervious iOS.

There is a small 2 day period that you can rollback to iOS 6 if you upgraded to iOS 7 and the process is simple downloading the iOS 6 firmware and alt resort.

Apple close the door after 2 days, not enough for people want to downgrade but updated late for some reason.
 
A

atteligibility

macrumors regular
Sep 14, 2012
223
2
SakuraSuki said:
Well, iDevice us about combination of hardware or software. Yes, it is true. I am not even suggesting on install Android on iDevice and I am sure some people want do that. I am suggesting that user should able to downgrade to early version of iOS that was DESIGNED for that device.

Apple could design phone with non-removable battery, no SD card or whatever, that is fine, but not allow user to rollback to early version is not fine. iOS 6 was designed for iDevice, so user should able to rollback if they DISLIKE iOS 7.

Also, striping my ability of downgrading is as equal as stripping my liberty. Because you don't have the liberty choice in this case. Anything can be small and big at same time.
Click to expand...

You sound so selfish with your arguments, and you don't seem to realize it...

- So all the restrictions are fine but the ones that bother you, it's all about "me me me...", right?
- You HAVE the possibility of downgrading to iOS6, you just had to do a baseband backup and keep a version of iOS6. In other words, you can but you have to do the work yourself. Now what you're asking for, is for Apple to spend the resources to allow a path for downgrading to a previous version of the OS, that includes server space, bandwidth, activation servers, tech support personels, etc... In other words, you want to strip Apple from its freedom to not invest time and money in making that available to its users. But I guess freedom of others is not as important as your freedom, right?
- You had the freedom to not install iOS7, you did it anyway. that upgrade had limitations (not being able to downgrade), and you had the freedom to decline the terms and conditions, you accepted anyway.

you're being silly man, realize it before saying any more ridiculous stuff about your freedom
 
S

SakuraSuki

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Jul 18, 2013
469
0
Tyler23 said:
Your freedom seems to be fine, you're here posting away with your complaints.

iOS is licensed by Apple. You agree to the Terms and Conditions. The user clicks install and update for iOS 7, and are given information about the software beforehand.

I don't see the issue here. You seem to often post about the greatness of Android and Blackberry, I'm confused why you're even on this site.
Click to expand...

Because if you ever used other platform for extensive period of time, you start getting frustration on limitations implemented on iOS.

I want keep using iOS, I truly do. iOS is something valuable and something great from Apple, but the limitation does ruin some part of that greatness.
 
Tyler23

Tyler23

macrumors 603
Dec 2, 2010
5,664
159
Atlanta, GA
SakuraSuki said:
Because if you ever used other platform for extensive period of time, you start getting frustration on limitations implemented on iOS.

I want keep using iOS, I truly do. iOS is something valuable and something great from Apple, but the limitation does ruin some part of that greatness.
Click to expand...

Well that's just, like, your opinion, man.
 
Shrink

Shrink

macrumors G3
Feb 26, 2011
8,929
1,727
New England, USA
SakuraSuki said:
It is not at same degree, but it is essentially the same. Your freedom had taken away by a corporation,
Click to expand...

No it's not the same...but if you equate freedom of speech with a phone operating system...nothing that I say will disabuse you of that notion. If you can't see the the difference of importance of the two issues, then there is no rational argument to convince you otherwise.
 
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