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View Full Version : Canon 20D successor info?




Rower_CPU
Dec 1, 2005, 05:57 PM
Figure what more appropo subject for MR than rumors about camera gear. ;)

Anyone heard anything reliable or have any thoughts about what's next from Canon to compete with Nikon's latest moves?

I'm looking to step up to a digital SLR soon, something in the 20D or D200 range of semi-pro cameras.

Thanks :)



BakedBeans
Dec 2, 2005, 02:12 AM
The Nikon guys say that Canon wont beat it because of the 5D, Canon guys say it will blast the 200D out of the window (im with them because its not much better than the 20D, although it is better).

If you need it now the Nikon looks a great camera although Im not sure of the noise implications of pushing that many pixels onto that size sensor.

It shouldnt be that long before the D30 is out. If you dont NEED it right away, waiting would be the best idea

Rower_CPU
Dec 2, 2005, 10:01 AM
Yeah, I've seen some discussions about whether or not Canon's going to release something too competitive with the 5D. Full-frame sounds nice for doing macro/wide-angle shooting, but I'm really looking for an all-around camera: portraiture, landscapes, action, still-life, macro, etc. so I'm not sure it's that big a deal for me, especially at the 5D's current price.

I'll probably be waiting until early next year - when's the next big photo expo where they release new hardare?

efoto
Dec 2, 2005, 10:23 AM
Yeah, I've seen some discussions about whether or not Canon's going to release something too competitive with the 5D. Full-frame sounds nice for doing macro/wide-angle shooting, but I'm really looking for an all-around camera: portraiture, landscapes, action, still-life, macro, etc. so I'm not sure it's that big a deal for me, especially at the 5D's current price.

I'll probably be waiting until early next year - when's the next big photo expo where they release new hardare?

I believe the next photo expo (is it PMA?) is in March??? I'm not sure though....

I would bet that the 20D "successor" is going to still be the same size chip, faster, a few more features or refinements to the current features. Many 10D owners thought it couldn't get any better, then they saw the 20D and said that couldn't get any better....Canon has a way of surprising its customers, giving a product that has enough new stuff to warrant an upgrade but no so much that you need another mortgage to get it :p

You may want to wait and see what is new for the sole purpose of driving the price of the 20D down. If Canon does choose a full-frame camera as the next 'upgrade' to compete with the D200, the 20D is still probably your best bet. You can rest assured it is a great camera, so perhaps just waiting for a pricedrop is the smartest thing, even if something new comes out (unless of course you require the new features).

Rower_CPU
Dec 3, 2005, 02:26 PM
Good point on waiting to see a 20D price drop. I could definitely live with a solid camera like that for around/under $1k. :)

I'd have more cash left for lenses, too. Any recommendations for all around lenses to check out? The kit lens should be OK to start, but I'd rather make an investment in something more capable and/or higher quality.

-hh
Dec 4, 2005, 02:13 PM
Good point on waiting to see a 20D price drop. I could definitely live with a solid camera like that for around/under $1k. :)

IIRC, Canon has a rebate running through 1/15/06 - - its called something like "1-2-3".

The way it is set up, there's a baseline rebate value for a bunch of items. The trick is that if you buy 1 item, you get x1 the value of that rebate term, but if you buy 2 items from the list, you get x2 for each (and for 3, x3).

Here's the rebate form:

http://www.pictureline.com/specials/pdf/CIWC_101505_ClaimForm.pdf


For example,

$1300 for 20D body: has $100 rebate

Buy just this: net price is ($1300) - $100 = $1200 for the body.

Adding:

$600 for 70-200mm f/4: has $50 rebate

Would result in a package with a ($100)2 + ($50)2 = $300 rebate.

The net price would be ($1300+$600) - $300 = $1600.
Assuming full price of the lens, the body now "cost" $1000.

Finally, if you were to add:

PIXIMA iP6600D printer: $25 rebate

It now produces a rebate of: ($100)3 + ($50)3 +($25)3 = $525.

And the net outlay is now ($1300+$600+$175) - $525 = $1550.

Granted, you are going to float the rebate money for around 2 months, but since the $225 increase in the rebate exceeds the $175 price of the printer, Canon is effectively giving you a free printer *and* lowering the price of the rest of the package by another $50. YMMV on how you want to rationalize all of the rebate permutations...for example, if you were willing to pay full frieght on the body & printer, you're getting the 70-200 f/4 for $75!


I'd have more cash left for lenses, too. Any recommendations for all around lenses to check out? The kit lens should be OK to start, but I'd rather make an investment in something more capable and/or higher quality.

I think that question is almost always going to come down to how much you're willing to spend and what types of subjects you prefer to shoot. If you're doing landscapes, you're not going to need/want the big glass that a birder is going to want, etc.

FWIW, because P&S digital cameras have gotten so good for "General Purpose" stuff, I'm focusing my dSLR on specialty applications ... in general terms, this means either very wide or very long. Something to think about.


-hh

Rower_CPU
Dec 4, 2005, 03:12 PM
Thanks for the info -hh. I'll have to look into that rebate deal.

To start with I'd be doing a fair amount of outdoor portraits (some amateur paid work) so would need a fairly versatile lens that can work in a lot of different lighting situations that doesn't cost too much. That's not asking for much, is it? ;)

efoto
Dec 4, 2005, 04:32 PM
Thanks for the info -hh. I'll have to look into that rebate deal.

To start with I'd be doing a fair amount of outdoor portraits (some amateur paid work) so would need a fairly versatile lens that can work in a lot of different lighting situations that doesn't cost too much. That's not asking for much, is it? ;)

I started with the Canon 24-70 f2.8L but after a couple of weeks of sitting on it I realized I had made a financially poor decision. I started running over other options and thankfully I have a wonderful camera store locally (Norman Camera is awesome!) that was willing to take back the lens.

I landed on the Tamron 28-75 f2.8 XR Di (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=284399&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation) which has excellent reviews and costs a mere $360 (give or take). Read a few reviews of it on Fred Miranda or elsewhere and you will see how many consider this a very viable alternative to the Canon 24-70 f2.8, even for professional use. I ended up trading in my Canon 24-70 for the following:
Tamron 28-75 f2.8 XR Di
Canon Speedlite 580EX
Canon 100 f2.0
I'm completely happy with my trade, especially given the results of the Tamron lens I have seen thus far :D

The beauty of such a versatile lens that is low-cost is that it allows you to purchase some decent primes as well (Also getting the Canon 50 f1.4 for Xmas ;) )

Depending on your needs, the 85 can be a great choice as well (especially the f1.2 if you can afford it). I figured the end of the Tamron at 75 was close to the 85, so I chose the 100 over the 85 to give more versatility to my setup.

Rower_CPU
Dec 4, 2005, 07:13 PM
Thanks, efoto! I'll check out some reviews. :)

efoto
Dec 4, 2005, 07:21 PM
Thanks, efoto! I'll check out some reviews. :)

Do that! I've had it home just this afternoon and it is amazing the quality, especially given the cost (I thought it would suck but bought it because buddies swore by it). Coupled with the 580EX it's that much better, but even without it's great ;)

Rower_CPU
Dec 4, 2005, 08:27 PM
Is the 580EX pretty much the "gold standard" for Canon DSLRs? Looks like it's got great features, even if I don't need the wireless capability to start.

efoto
Dec 4, 2005, 08:35 PM
Is the 580EX pretty much the "gold standard" for Canon DSLRs? Looks like it's got great features, even if I don't need the wireless capability to start.

I guess you could say that, it is the top of the line model to my knowledge. Canon offers (http://consumer.usa.canon.com/ir/controller?act=ProductCatIndexAct&fcategoryid=141):
580EX
430EX
220EX
MT-24EX (dual-flash macro)
MR-14EX (macro ring-flash)
ST-E2 (transmitter)
Although these are the ones listed on Canon's site above, many camera stores still offer:
550EX
420EX
Someone once told me that they preferred the 550EX because you can adjust the output in 1/3 increments and that the 580EX can only be adjusted in half steps....I can tell you that is not the case and the 580EX most certainly takes 1/3 steps :)

I personally want to save up for the MT-24EX and couple it with a sweet 180 3.5L Macro or the like (I hear great things from Sigma's 150 2.8 and 180 3.5 macros), but those are a bit out in the future :rolleyes:

One second and I'll take a quick pic of it to show you size vs. camera, and on-camera....

Edit: It's actually going to be a few minutes....I have to shower before Grey's comes on :p

efoto
Dec 4, 2005, 09:35 PM
Here you are, a few images to show the size in comparison to the camera and on-board it (sorry for the Dell monitor :o):

http://www.circlethought.com/canon/DSC01504.jpg

http://www.circlethought.com/canon/DSC01505.jpg

http://www.circlethought.com/canon/DSC01507.jpg

http://www.circlethought.com/canon/DSC01509.jpg

Rower_CPU
Dec 4, 2005, 10:13 PM
Thanks for the shots. And don't worry about the Dell monitor; I've got the 2005FPW. ;)

Bibulous
Dec 4, 2005, 10:17 PM
Anyone heard anything reliable or have any thoughts about what's next from Canon to compete with Nikon's latest moves?

I hope they add a spot meter and a sub $1000 price. The 1.6X sensor is ok with me, and I hope they keep the built in flash but add a larger screen.

efoto
Dec 4, 2005, 10:18 PM
Thanks for the shots. And don't worry about the Dell monitor; I've got the 2005FPW. ;)

I know, the Dell comment was more because I wish it was a 23" HD CD, but oh well :rolleyes:

Glad the shots were of some interest. I just wanted you to know the flash's relative size to the 20D body. I realize there are in-store comparisons, but whateva :p I was surprised by the flash's size, quite large but quite effective as a flash....which I'm quite happy with.

I'm going to order a LightSphereIIPJ as well, as I hear great things and they don't cost too much....I'll have to post images of that thing once it shows up too.

monkeydo_jb
Dec 5, 2005, 08:54 AM
I think you made a good choice efoto. Maybe when you start making big bucks on your hobby, then you can get the L again!

So the Tamron is pretty good? I'll probably buy it next month. Also, do make sure to keep us posted on how you like the LSPJ. He's supposed to be releasing a dome for that model pretty soon.

As for a 30d or whatever it's called, I hope they add at least partial weather sealing a la the d200. Spot meter would be nice, too.

efoto
Dec 5, 2005, 09:35 AM
I think you made a good choice efoto. Maybe when you start making big bucks on your hobby, then you can get the L again!

So the Tamron is pretty good? I'll probably buy it next month. Also, do make sure to keep us posted on how you like the LSPJ. He's supposed to be releasing a dome for that model pretty soon.

After sleeping on it (since I did the exchange yesterday) I feel even better about my choice. As much as the 24-70 L was nice, I just couldn't justify having only that lens and nothing else. I was looking at the Sigma 24-70 as well, but couldn't find a good model (apparently 1 in 5 is decent, I tested 4 and all of them were completely blurred from 24-40, but tack sharp from 50-70 in a tripod test run at the store). I actually prefer the build of the Sigma 24-70 f2.8 to that of the Tamron 28-75 f2.8, but results are more important that looks I suppose, hence the decision to go with the Tamron.

After messing with the 580EX last night, I'm actually glad that the Tamron is a bit smaller and lighter because with a lens and the 580 on-camera, the thing is starting to get heavy! and I don't even have my vert-grip w/ 2nd battery yet!!! :eek:

Right now I'm trying to decide between getting the 50 f1.4 or the 100 f2.0 for Xmas from the parents (they said one lens under $400 in effort to help me save money on camera body by stacking rebates :D). They had 50 f1.4's in store yesterday, and everyone talks great about those but I feel like it is slightly redundant because I have 50mm covered in my 28-75....and 100 f2.0 would work pretty decent indoor light-wise.....oh decisions decisions.

I'll definitely let you know on that LSPJ when I receive it. I've read enough good things, and it doesn't cost too much, where I'm willing to just get it to try it.

monkeydo_jb
Dec 5, 2005, 11:19 AM
Thanks for the heads-up on the Sigma. I bet that thing is getting heavy! Got a battery grip on it's way yet?

If I were you, I'd get the 100 from the 'rents and pick up the 50 1.8 for $75 or less. I have it and it's very sharp with acceptable bokeh. That way you can see if you'll even use it very much and upgrade later. Sure the lens is plastic, but mine has held up just fine so far.

Mr. Anderson
Dec 5, 2005, 11:30 AM
I landed on the Tamron 28-75 f2.8 XR Di (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=284399&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation) which has excellent reviews and costs a mere $360 (give or take). Read a few reviews of it on Fred Miranda or elsewhere and you will see how many consider this a very viable alternative to the Canon 24-70 f2.8, even for professional use. I ended up trading in my Canon 24-70 for the following:
Tamron 28-75 f2.8 XR Di
Canon Speedlite 580EX
Canon 100 f2.0
I'm completely happy with my trade, especially given the results of the Tamron lens I have seen thus far :D

The beauty of such a versatile lens that is low-cost is that it allows you to purchase some decent primes as well (Also getting the Canon 50 f1.4 for Xmas ;) )

Depending on your needs, the 85 can be a great choice as well (especially the f1.2 if you can afford it). I figured the end of the Tamron at 75 was close to the 85, so I chose the 100 over the 85 to give more versatility to my setup.

I love this lens, its the one I got with my 20D and I can't think of a better one for all round shooting. The price made it even more appealing.

D

efoto
Dec 5, 2005, 11:37 AM
Thanks for the heads-up on the Sigma. I bet that thing is getting heavy! Got a battery grip on it's way yet?

If I were you, I'd get the 100 from the 'rents and pick up the 50 1.8 for $75 or less. I have it and it's very sharp with acceptable bokeh. That way you can see if you'll even use it very much and upgrade later. Sure the lens is plastic, but mine has held up just fine so far.

The 50 1.8 isn't on Canon's stackable rebates though....which was the point of getting three Canon branded items (sadly the 580EX Speedlite doesn't count towards the stack, but still $20 off).

I would like to get the 50 1.4 and have the parents get the 100 2.0, but if I want hope of anything else for Xmas at all, I should let them get the 50 as it comes out nearly $70 less post-facto when the dust settles.

The other difference I am trying to workout is whether it makes sense to get all three or not, or just settle on having two lenses for a little while. By getting a third I do get the third rebate on my camera body and both lenses, but depending on the lens (cheapest ones are around $300) all of those rebates go to paying for the third lens....so I break even instead of saving money :(