Faux News poll: Christianity is under attack

[Thomas Veil]

I saw this as I was flipping channels today while simultaneously listening to the mortarfire of the 98th Armored division surrounding St. Stephen's Episcopal:

NEW YORK *—*Most Americans think the nation's courts have gone too far in taking religion out of public life, and large majorities favor allowing voluntary school prayer, keeping "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance, and allowing nativity scenes on government property, according to the latest FOX News poll. And while many Americans think Christianity is under attack in the United States today, more disagree than agree there is a "war on Christmas."

The new poll finds that almost eight in 10 Americans (77 percent) believe the courts have overreached in driving religion out of public life, and a 59 percent majority feels Christianity is under attack.

Majorities of Republicans (89 percent), Democrats (73 percent) and independents (69 percent) think the courts have gone too far in taking religion out of public life.

Overall, most Americans disagree with several Supreme Court rulings on the separation of church and state. For example, an overwhelming 87 percent favor allowing public schools to set aside time for a moment of silence, and 82 percent favor allowing voluntary prayer. Another 82 percent favor allowing public schools to have a prayer at graduation ceremonies, and 83 percent think nativity scenes should be allowed on public property.

Not only do three-quarters of Americans (76 percent) think posting the Ten Commandments on government property should be legal, but also two-thirds (66 percent) say it is a good idea to post the commandments in public schools.

...a large majority of Americans (81 percent) disagree with those that think all religion should be excluded from public life, and more than two-thirds of Americans (68 percent) believe religion plays too small a role in most people’s lives today.

In addition, nearly half (49 percent) think religion is under attack in America today — almost three times as many as think religion has too much influence (17 percent). One in five (22 percent) think the current standing of religion is "about right."

The portion that thinks religion is under attack increases to 61 percent among people who attend religious services weekly and 72 percent among self-identified Evangelical Christians. In addition, Republicans are 25 percentage points more likely than Democrats to believe religion is under attack.Link (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,177355,00.html)

Man. I so want to believe that Faux's methodology in this poll is as biased as the rest of their network. I don't want to believe that this is an actual, valid result, because that means we've still got a long ways to go.

About the only result that gives me any comfort is that most people don't believe that there is a "war on Christmas". I know the Right's really been trying to build up that straw man in recent years, and it's nice to know it isn't working.

But the rest is unsettling, and raises a whole series of questions. Aren't we still teaching kids the Constitution in civics class? Or are we too afraid to bring up the subject of separation of church and state? Do certain religions exert so much influence (*cough*mindcontrol*cough*) that they override what kids learn in school? Do most people really not know that "under God" is a relatively modern addition, not something the Founding Fathers approved?

Moreover, lacking the kind of propaganda mill that the Right has, how do we counteract all this blatant ignorance of how church and state are supposed to work?

[Sayhey]

About the only result that gives me any comfort is that most people don't believe that there is a "war on Christmas". I know the Right's really been trying to build up that straw man in recent years, and it's nice to know it isn't working.

Do you mean that Bill O'Reilly ... <gulp!> ... lied to us?! :eek:

From one of my favorite bloggers, James Wolcott (http://jameswolcott.com/archives/2005/12/scenes_from_the.php).

Scenes from the War on Christmas
Posted by James Wolcott
Today this nice saleslady handed me the blue Tiffany box she had tied with a ribbon just so and, with a twinkle in her smile, wished me a Merry Christmas. So I socked her.

[leekohler]

I think I'm going to puke, then move to South Afica. A long ways to go? More like we're going in the opposite direction.

[FoxyKaye]

I've been making a real effort to understand American Christian victim mentality lately, since it seems to me I'd be celebrating right and left with Bush in the White House, an entire Office of Faith-Based Initiatives, federal funding for abstinance (sp?)-only sex education, the Kansas School Board creationism decision, Roberts and possibly Alito in the Supreme Court, anti-gay marriage constitutional amendments passing every state election, marriage requirements for receiving welfare, abortion access being slowly eroded, and AIDS funding slashed (to name a few).

Then it hit me. We're in the Dispensationalist Era. For any number of American Christians, these are the End of Days. It's not about freedom of religion anymore, it's a literal and dogmatic war against the forces of perceived evil and coming antiChrist. I'm really not making this up - Tim LaHaye's Left Behind series is a great example. The kind of situations about which he writes aren't hypothetical or fantastical - to a great many people, they're a prediction of what's to come unless the perceived degeneration of society is stopped.

It makes perfect sense that Christianity is perceived to be under attack, because to the respondants, this is a war.

[IJ Reilly]

I bought a copy of "Bad Santa." Does this mean I'm fighting in the front lines of the War on Christmas?

[skunk]

I bought a copy of "Bad Santa." Does this mean I'm fighting in the front lines of the War on Christmas?You're either with Santa or against him.

[tristan]

We'll stand down when the elves stand up.

Oh, they are standing up... they're so short I... never mind...

[iGary]

Christianity is alive and well:

http://www.crossroad.to/index.html

[zimv20]

http://www.crossroad.to/index.html
yikes.

[solvs]

I think fundamentalists mix up an attack on them with an attack on what they claim to stand for. Even if it's the exact opposite. Like when you hate Bush because you love America. These people pervert Christianity just like they pervert the freedoms the US really stand for. Freedom of religion means freedom for everyone. It means getting to say Merry Christmas, but having to hear Happy Holidays.

But playing the oppressed victim when you are clearly the majority is a proven tactic.

[joepunk]

Christianity is alive and well:

http://www.crossroad.to/index.htmlJeeeeeesus Christ! (sorry to anyone who is offended by my usage of the lords name in vain or however it goes)

I love it when people like use quotes from the Bible. I highly doubt that anyone was writing down in mass quantities what Jesus was saying at the time and he never had a biographer.

[tristan]

Don't underestimate the level of development of the period. We have many books today that are original, word for word translations of famous people at the time, including Caesar, Cicero, Ovid, Virgil, Horace, etc. If the bible is considered as a biography, then while we may not have Jesus' exact words, we do have the exact words of four of his biographers (disciples).

[aquajet]

http://www.crossroad.to/index.html

It gets better. Surely you've seen:

http://www.godhatesfags.com

[xsedrinam]

Don't underestimate the level of development of the period. We have many books today that are original, word for word translations of famous people at the time, including Caesar, Cicero, Ovid, Virgil, Horace, etc. If the bible is considered as a biography, then while we may not have Jesus' exact words, we do have the exact words of four of his biographers (disciples).
As long as it doesn't include Oral Roberts, Oral History has its place.

[edesignuk]

Government policy and the law should have no influence from religion. Grrrrrrr. I don't have much more to say than that, it just really pisses me off.

[xsedrinam]

You're either with Santa or against him.
:D And he shall rein, deer, for ever and ever.

[rickvanr]

America is crazy. Church and State should be completely separate.

Edit:: I'm in the same mood as edesignuk on this subject, it just makes me mad.

[IJ Reilly]

:D And he shall rein, deer, for ever and ever.

Rudolph the Red knows rain, dear.

[takao]

You're either with Santa or against him.

shh don't tell anybody but "santa" is a anagram of "satan"


satan claus ...




uh oh when i think about it.. the 6th (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Nicholas) is just 2 days away ... time to get carefull again... i guess the Perchten,Krampusse,Tuifel are already hitting the streets and deliviering a few beatings

[Sayhey]

Don't underestimate the level of development of the period. We have many books today that are original, word for word translations of famous people at the time, including Caesar, Cicero, Ovid, Virgil, Horace, etc. If the bible is considered as a biography, then while we may not have Jesus' exact words, we do have the exact words of four of his biographers (disciples).

Not to underestimate anyone, but my understanding is that it is more like the words of a conglomeration of many early christian leaders over the period of 100+ years, a few who may have been alive during the lifetime of Jesus. The argument then becomes one of whether they are "divinely inspired" texts, not if they are original texts with the verbatim transcripts of a historical Jesus.

[skunk]

The argument then becomes one of whether they are "divinely inspired" texts, not if they are original texts with the verbatim transcripts of a historical Jesus.Or indeed if they are not transcripts at all, but coded references to the political affiliations and schismatic dogmata of the time. My favourite analysis at the moment is Jesus The Man by Barbara Thiering. Well worth a read for a different angle.
http://www.randomhouse.ca/catalog/display.pperl?isbn=9780552139502

[Sayhey]

Or indeed if they are not transcripts at all, but coded references to the political affiliations and schismatic dogmata of the time. My favourite analysis at the moment is Jesus The Man by Barbara Thiering. Well worth a read for a different angle.
http://www.randomhouse.ca/catalog/display.pperl?isbn=9780552139502

Thanks for the link, skunk, that looks interesting!

[zimv20]

http://www.randomhouse.ca/catalog/display.pperl?isbn=9780552139502
just wanted to post this bit from the link, for those who don't feel like clicking:
Jesus was the leader of a radical faction of Essene priests. He was not of virgin birth. He did not die on the Cross. He married Mary Magdalene, fathered a family, and later divorced. He died sometime after AD 64.

[leekohler]

It gets better. Surely you've seen:

http://www.godhatesfags.com

Yeah- that one's my favorite. :(

[NewbieNerd]

It gets better. Surely you've seen:

http://www.godhatesfags.com

Great example of an attack on Christianity. Some radical who completely misrepresents and lies about Christian faith produces such a website, and then it is passed around as a supposed bash against all Christians and no one complains.

Suppose there was a website, like www.muslimshateamericans.com (I don't know if this is a real website or not). People would FLIP because you are misjudging and mislabeling all muslims because of a few radicals, terrorists, who also misrepresent their faith. For some reason it is okay to step on the toes of Christianity, men, and whites in America simply because they are either in the majority or have the most power here, but dare a person to say the same things about everyone else and you are a hater.

Point: If you don't think all Muslims are terrorists, don't think that all Christians think God hates homosexuals. He certainly does not.

[zimv20]

Great example of an attack on Christianity. Some radical who completely misrepresents and lies about Christian faith produces such a website, and then it is passed around as a supposed bash against all Christians and no one complains.

are you feeling a victim?

[toontra]

Then it hit me. We're in the Dispensationalist Era. For any number of American Christians, these are the End of Days. It's not about freedom of religion anymore, it's a literal and dogmatic war against the forces of perceived evil and coming antiChrist. I'm really not making this up - Tim LaHaye's Left Behind series is a great example. The kind of situations about which he writes aren't hypothetical or fantastical - to a great many people, they're a prediction of what's to come unless the perceived degeneration of society is stopped.

It makes perfect sense that Christianity is perceived to be under attack, because to the respondants, this is a war.

Excellent analysis. It would appear that American fundamentalist Christians are mirroring Bush's "war on terrorism" with their own "war on evil", and that these two "wars" are mutually supportive.

This is the stuff of the Dark Ages. America today is one truly ****ed-up nation.

[pseudobrit]

Great example of an attack on Christianity. Some radical who completely misrepresents and lies about Christian faith produces such a website, and then it is passed around as a supposed bash against all Christians and no one complains.

Suppose there was a website, like www.muslimshateamericans.com (I don't know if this is a real website or not). People would FLIP because you are misjudging and mislabeling all muslims because of a few radicals, terrorists, who also misrepresent their faith.

For every sensible person who would recognise this disparity, there would be three rednecks joining muslimshateamericans.com's mailing list and longing for the day when we can start liquidating Muslims.

For some reason it is okay to step on the toes of Christianity, men, and whites in America simply because they are either in the majority or have the most power here, but dare a person to say the same things about everyone else and you are a hater.

Spare us the persecuted majority bit, please.

I'm a white Christian male. I've just got to stop this prejudice against myself!