Poll: Do you use Qwerty or Dvorak?

[MacRumors]

Vote: Poll: Do you use Qwerty or Dvorak? (http://www.macpolls.com/?poll_id=99&ref=forums.macrumors.com)

[Nipsy]

I would LOVE to use Dvorak, but sadly I use too many machines, and only control 10% of them.

It would have me confused 90% of the time...

[melchior]

i used to use dvorak at home when my primary was a desktop. but running and ibook now. no show.

[pimentoLoaf]

Under MacOS X, enter System Preferences, International, and then click the Input Menu tab. Your primary keyboard layout is checked, but you can add others.

Though I don't use Dvorak (which is one of the choices), I clicked on Greek (for use in astronomical notation) and a few others, and it leaves the currently selected layout "flag" on the Finder menu bar.

[melchior]

pimentoloaf>

are you suggesting someone might wish to use their qwerty keyboard as if it were a dvorak layout? the confusion such a thing would cause me! is staggering.

i do however find the internationalization of os x excellent (and far in excess of any other OS) especially for japanese and dutch.

dvorak is great, if you are a heavy user. the origins of the qwerty layout are quite amusing if you get your qwerty fingers over to google...

[yamadataro]

Sorry for my ignorance, but I've never ever seen/heard of DVORAK keyboard.
Is this a meaningful poll??? I mean it still is zero voters to Dvorak!

Would anyone care to explain what Dvorak keyboard is all about?

[skunk]

I listen to Dvorak while typing with one finger. :)

[melchior]

google is your friend!!!!

basically it goes like this... the qwerty layout was designed in the 1800's for the primary reason of making it easy for the salemen to type the word typewriter (on the top row) without searching for keys and thus, showing the speed possible. it is an awkward and generally uncomfortable layout that makes it more difficult to spell simple words quickly than it should be.

dvorak is so named because of it's creator dr. dvorak. it's designed to make working in english easy and typing quickly and accurately.

it is a completely different layout of the abc keys. go to google, you will see. go on. now. go!

[yamadataro]

Originally posted by melchior

it is a completely different layout of the abc keys. go to google, you will see. go on. now. go!

Dahhh, "google.com" was too many letters to type and it's got a period in it!!!!! :D
BTW that story about the typewriter salesman was cool! Thanks melchior.

[melchior]

a couple of things...

#1 still no one has said they a dvorak keyboard. i am sure more pc users use it, but surprising no mac users have owned up to it.

#2 2 people have said 'other' . what languages use a non-qwerty layout? going by my vast experience in james bond, in tomorrow never dies the there is a bright red chinese keyboard that appears to have no roman lettering, which makes sense, i guess, but i imagine most keyboards these days would, then again, i have no idea, do I?!!!

[skunk]

Originally posted by melchior

#2 2 people have said 'other' . what languages use a non-qwerty layout? going by my vast experience in james bond, in tomorrow never dies the there is a bright red chinese keyboard that appears to have no roman lettering, which makes sense, i guess, but i imagine most keyboards these days would, then again, i have no idea, do I?!!!
Obviously not. Many other languages have different keyboard layouts, not only Greek, Sinhalese, Urdu, Cambodian, Chinese, Japanese, German, Arabic, Korean, etc, etc. In fact I would guess that there are many more non-Qwerty keyboards in the world than Qwerty.

[yamadataro]

Originally posted by skunk

Obviously not. Many other languages have different keyboard layouts, not only Greek, Sinhalese, Urdu, Cambodian, Chinese, Japanese, German, etc, etc.

Well, all of Apple's non-English keyboards have local characters AND English QWERTY letters on the same keyboards.

FYI: Japanese Macs have two extra keys: one for switching to English letters and the other for Japanese. We have a very short space bar because of these two addtional ones.

[melchior]

:D

FYI: japanese keyboards are qwerty, although slightly different in favour of keys often used for the internet such as ':' and '@'

i trust your word on the others though. and i knew about german too.

[redAPPLE]

if computer companies would offer a qwerty or a dvorak keyboard, then maybe more people would use (or at least, get to know) the dvorak keyboard layout.

imagine:

Use Dvorak. Type Fast. Type Different.

(hold on, there is this dvorak dude, who hates macs. right?)

edit:

Type Different. Use Dvorak. Don't Be A "Dvorak"

:p

[yamadataro]

Originally posted by melchior
:D

FYI: japanese keyboards are qwerty, although slightly different in favour of keys often used for the internet such as ':' and '@'

i trust your word on the others though. and i knew about german too.

Ah, that's right. It's a little different. I remember my US keyboard made my made-in-Japan father nuts because of that :D

[melchior]

the japanese keyboard is arguably a more modern qwerty. why didn't they just go dvorak all the way???

[yamadataro]

Originally posted by melchior
the japanese keyboard is arguably a more modern qwerty. why didn't they just go dvorak all the way???

That's because new key layout would drive my father crazy :D

[skunk]

As a matter of fact, even the UK English keyboard is slightly different, in that it substitutes the Pound Sterling sign for the US pound weight sign (hash)

[lmalave]

Originally posted by melchior
google is your friend!!!!

basically it goes like this... the qwerty layout was designed in the 1800's for the primary reason of making it easy for the salemen to type the word typewriter (on the top row) without searching for keys and thus, showing the speed possible. it is an awkward and generally uncomfortable layout that makes it more difficult to spell simple words quickly than it should be.

dvorak is so named because of it's creator dr. dvorak. it's designed to make working in english easy and typing quickly and accurately.

it is a completely different layout of the abc keys. go to google, you will see. go on. now. go!

I've read the story too that the qwerty keyboard was designed specifically to slow down typists, because with the early typewriters the keys would get jammed if you typed too fast. I think this is an urban legend, though - in practice there's little discernible difference in typing speed between qwerty and Dvorak keyboards.

[Omen88]

I guess nobody here ever heard of an Azerty keyboard? It's used in France and Belgium (and I guess in some other countries too). The keys are a little different but I can type blindly on both.

(guess my blind typing isn't that good hehe)

[astomatous]

In france we use AZERTY - close to QWERTY but often painfully different.

[FelixDerKater]

Here's the German QWERTZ Keyboard layout:

[FelixDerKater]

and with Caps on...

[Knox]

Originally posted by melchior
google is your friend!!!!

basically it goes like this... the qwerty layout was designed in the 1800's for the primary reason of making it easy for the salemen to type the word typewriter (on the top row) without searching for keys and thus, showing the speed possible. it is an awkward and generally uncomfortable layout that makes it more difficult to spell simple words quickly than it should be.

Haven't heard that one before actually but i notice it's mentioned on quite a few places. The one i thought was the primary reason was to try and prevent mechanical typewriters getting jammed - http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=1114479

oops, just noticed this was mentioned before

[melchior]

yeah the story about getting jammed seems to be most popular. but they also say it wasn't until after qwerty that a court clerk first taught himself to touchtype

[zarathustra]

Originally posted by lmalave


I've read the story too that the qwerty keyboard was designed specifically to slow down typists, because with the early typewriters the keys would get jammed if you typed too fast. I think this is an urban legend, though - in practice there's little discernible difference in typing speed between qwerty and Dvorak keyboards.

You are sort of right, like others mentioned. It's not to slow them down, but to prevent the typewriter heads from jamming together. Also, if you notice, when you place your hands on a QWERTY keyboard, the most often used letters take a prime spot under your four (eight) fingers. ERT, ASD, DFGH on one side, HJKL, UIO, ;' return on the other side.

All the various flavors of keyboard layout, follow the "most used letter" principle. QWERTY in most of Europe is QWERTZ or AZERTY. And the many tildes and accent marked letters are under your right hand.

Use DVORAK if you like to, but at this point it would be like asking American drivers to switch to the right side of the vehicle, because that works better in other parts of the world.

[FelixDerKater]

Typing typewriter would be easier if all the characters weren't all on the same row.

[melchior]

both are plausible stories in my opinion. obviously 'typewriter' would only be a contributing factor.

as for driving... here in japan, though driving on the left is the chosen standard. There is a growing trend of left seated drivers that are something of a status symbol. i saw a left hand drive jaguar (xk120? maybe 196~) which i found amusing.

[vniow]

QUERTY, I guess.

I don't think I've ever used a DVORAK one.

[Chemlaw]

I taught myself the Dvorak arrangement about 5 years ago, after I was suffering some repetitive stress pain in my wrists.

It helped, or seems to, anyway.

The arrangement of the keys Shifted, is shown in the attached jpg.

It puts the vowels under the left hand home row, and the most used consonants under the right hand home row. Part of the benefit is to evenly balance the work being done.

I use it without changing the key caps, so I've got to know the layout. I used to have to carry a disk with the drivers back in DOS days, and Mac OS 7 days. Now any computer I go to has the Dvorak keyboard arrangement available.

Biggest downside -- it drives QWERTY users crazy if I forget to switch it back. Was a problem in my last job for the help desk connecting via PCAnywhere - They'd try to type in something and it came out as gibberish.

[DStaal]

Both stories for the orgin of the QWERTY keyboard are right, in a way... I ran across what I believe to be the true story while shopping for my current keyboard, a very pricey but nice Kinesis switchable (I use Dovorak mode myself). Anyway, on to the story: The orginal typewriters (laid out in alphabetical order) did jam, though speed wasn't really the problem (after all, there were no touch typests yet...). The problem was the linkages didn't always fully reset, so if you hit a nearby key the previous key would come up too. So, the designer moved the keys so that wouldn't happen as often. Since he was moving the keys anyway, he made it easy to demo type 'typewriter'. (Since he knew he would have to sell these things.)

Of course, not too long later the entire thing was re-designed and the old problem of key lock-up went away even if you went to the original keyboard layout, but since people had learned to touch-type in the meantime...

[amalling]

Originally posted by zarathustra


. Also, if you notice, when you place your hands on a QWERTY keyboard, the most often used letters take a prime spot under your four (eight) fingers. ERT, ASD, DFGH on one side, HJKL, UIO, ;' return on the other side.

All the various flavors of keyboard layout, follow the "most used letter" principle. QWERTY in most of Europe is QWERTZ or AZERTY. And the many tildes and accent marked letters are under your right hand.



This is sort of right. But not entirely.
In Denmark, under your right hand, you'll find "jklæ" and moving your fifth finger (counting from the thumb, that is) one to the right, you'll find "ø". These are not the most commonly used in denmark, whereas "ermn" is (among them, that is).
I, for one would love to have a Danish version of Dvorak (a danish 'cause of "øæå") but no such luck in finding one.
Oh, and speaking of your parable of making americans drive to the left of the road:
In the Danish (well, most of the european layouts) the $ is placed just below ESC, whereas the ? is placed on the shift-4. And one more thing that annoys the hell out of me is the fact that @ is placed where it is (you have to press ALT (of course), but then you have to use your right hand to press the button just in the corner of SHIFT/RETURN). It SUCKS! Why not put on the "2"? I like my shortcuts etc. to be onehanded ...

[Doctor Q]

I'll tell you my two "typewriter" stories from Los Angeles schools where I did volunteer computer work:

(1) At a middle school, one of the donated Mac Centris 610s had a German keyboard, with the Y and Z keys reversed from the U.S. arrangement. The Mac was set for the U.S. arrangement. The kids who were touch typists (or pretty close to it) didn't notice. But the hunt-and-peckers got confused when they pressed Y or Z and got the other one. The diaeresis vowels and sharp S didn't worry them; they didn't need them so they ignored them.

(2) At an elementary school, I brought a borrowed 1940s Royal typewriter to show a class of 5th graders. The kids were very interested when I explained that it had a real carriage (hence "carriage return"). I even told them about the word "TYPEWRITER" being on the top row to help the salesmen. As I walked back to my car, the teacher in the nextdoor classroom saw what I was carrying and asked me what it was. She had never seen a real typewriter before! Hmmm. I wonder if she ever saw a slide rule or a dial phone? Speaking of ancient hardware, I know she has seen Apple IIc's since the school still has dozens of them!

[sandro]

I use Qwerty!

[Chrome]

Really like the Dvorak layout but never had the time to learn it.

Been using QWERTY so very long.

[yzedf]

Originally posted by melchior
google is your friend!!!!

basically it goes like this... the qwerty layout was designed in the 1800's for the primary reason of making it easy for the salemen to type the word typewriter (on the top row) without searching for keys and thus, showing the speed possible. it is an awkward and generally uncomfortable layout that makes it more difficult to spell simple words quickly than it should be.

dvorak is so named because of it's creator dr. dvorak. it's designed to make working in english easy and typing quickly and accurately.

it is a completely different layout of the abc keys. go to google, you will see. go on. now. go!

You forgot to mention Mr. Qwerty and the fact that his name runs across the top row. True story.

NOT (http://home.earthlink.net/~dcrehr/whyqwert.html)

[scem0]

I use QWERTY, but I would love to try Dvorak. I might one day...

[Will Jones]

I use Qwerty and always have. I've never even seen a Dvorak keyboard!

[charboneau]

I don't really understand how I type in QWERTY, but I do. I'd like to try Dvorak, but the name bothers me. Reminds me of that PC magazine troll.