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MacBytes
Dec 13, 2005, 06:05 PM
http://www.macbytes.com/images/bytessig.gif (http://www.macbytes.com)

Category: Reviews
Link: Windows or Macintosh? (http://www.macbytes.com/link.php?sid=20051213190552)

Posted on MacBytes.com (http://www.macbytes.com)
Approved by Mudbug

looklost
Dec 13, 2005, 06:22 PM
What the hell is that suppose to be:confused: Am I missing something, is there more to it than what the link lead to?

Um....... Macintosh of course:p

doucy2
Dec 13, 2005, 06:24 PM
duh Apple's tech support is better, atleast for now
Let hope they dont move it to India like every other country
When you call Apple you actually talk to real people (that nativly speak english) and most of the time they now something about mac so you can get your problem resolved

mjstew33
Dec 13, 2005, 06:28 PM
duh Apple's tech support is better, atleast for now
Let hope they dont move it to India like every other country
When you call Apple you actually talk to real people (that nativly speak english) and most of the time they now something about mac so you can get your problem resolved
I agree. I've always had a good representative when I talk to Apple.

generik
Dec 13, 2005, 06:30 PM
duh Apple's tech support is better, atleast for now
Let hope they dont move it to India like every other country
When you call Apple you actually talk to real people (that nativly speak english) and most of the time they now something about mac so you can get your problem resolved

Try calling nowadays, they have call centres in India too now...

balamw
Dec 13, 2005, 06:36 PM
Try calling nowadays, they have call centres in India too now...
I definitely spoke to someone in India last year when my wife's iPod mini was stolen and I called to see if there was something they could do about it. They were very nice and helpful, and spoke English very well, but after I got transferred to someone more senior, they ultimately gave me a phone number to Apple's "Security line," which turned out to be the security office at the Infinite Loop campus. ;)

B

840quadra
Dec 13, 2005, 06:41 PM
I am sure it depends on the time. Many large corporations have overnight (US time) call centers in india or other countries.

I called in for an issue on my Powermac (last Thursday) and got someone from the US (I asked).

winmacguy
Dec 13, 2005, 07:21 PM
I definitely spoke to someone in India last year when my wife's iPod mini was stolen and I called to see if there was something they could do about it. They were very nice and helpful, and spoke English very well, but after I got transferred to someone more senior, they ultimately gave me a phone number to Apple's "Security line," which turned out to be the security office at the Infinite Loop campus. ;)

B
I was reading an article the other week which said that a lot of the staff in call centres in India take a lot of abuse from American customers who are angry that some cheap Indian in some poor 3rd world country is getting paid $30 US a month do do a job that they were doing. A lot of the call centres go through a lot of staff who get sick of handling hundreds of calls a day with a very high percentage being abusive irate callers with computer problems and so they leave their jobs. British Airways outsources their customer support and airline booking to India since it is cheaper than getting an expensive Brit to do the same work.

balamw
Dec 13, 2005, 07:35 PM
a lot of the staff in call centres in India take a lot of abuse from American customers
I imagine that's true :(

I for one, always try to be polite with whomever I'm talking to on the phone. Firm yes, abusive no.

I've never understood why so many people find the need to be abusive to those they consider of lesser stature (secretaries, delivery people, phone support, etc...) they're just trying to do their job, and without them where would the rest of us be?

B

cwtnospam
Dec 13, 2005, 08:18 PM
Where did they get a ratio of 1,000 to 1 viruses? Wouldn't that mean there was at least one Mac virus? Do they know something the rest of the world doesn't?

corradokid
Dec 13, 2005, 08:29 PM
Where did they get a ratio of 1,000 to 1 viruses? Wouldn't that mean there was at least one Mac virus? Do they know something the rest of the world doesn't?

Even worse, they recommend PCs *AND* Macs have anti-virus software installed, which as we all know can cause huge problems on a Mac (especially Symantec crap.) :mad:

I don't install virus protection on any of my clients' computers.

maestro55
Dec 13, 2005, 08:31 PM
Where did they get a ratio of 1,000 to 1 viruses? Wouldn't that mean there was at least one Mac virus? Do they know something the rest of the world doesn't?

I believe there are a few around:

www.macvirus.org

corradokid
Dec 13, 2005, 08:41 PM
I believe there are a few around:

www.macvirus.org

The security risk where a widget got installed automatically without the user's intervention is a vulnerability, not a virus.

Apple
Dec 13, 2005, 08:49 PM
I personally hate apples support. Everytime I call they dont know how to fix it and when I tell them to get me someone else they say stuff like "Sir you need to calm down" so I stop and ask quietly and I always seem to get the "stressed" one and they start flippin out. And then hang up. Actually this only happened once, Im proud to say that these forums resolve most of my problems

maestro55
Dec 13, 2005, 09:28 PM
The security risk where a widget got installed automatically without the user's intervention is a vulnerability, not a virus.

The WDEF virus, first found in Belgium in 1989, gets its name from the WDEF resource found in the Desktop file. Its two strains, WDEF A and B, spread by infecting these files, and, since the System reads the Desktop files of every disk it mounts, can spread very easily, without even needing applications to run.

It does not do any intentional damage, by some of its programming errors can cause problems, such as crashes, and font display problems.
source: www.macvirus.org

That looks like a virus to me, there are few floating around. Not saying anything against Apple, I just saying that they apparently exist, or so this website lists some.

corradokid
Dec 13, 2005, 09:34 PM
source: www.macvirus.org

That looks like a virus to me, there are few floating around. Not saying anything against Apple, I just saying that they apparently exist, or so this website lists some.

Correct, but obviously OS X was not around there, nor does Apple sell any Macs that can boot up in anything but OS X (let's leave Intel Macs out of this for now) and OS X, which Consumers Report magazine is considering "Apple computers" and "Macintoshes" there's no reason to run antivirus as OS X is not vulnerable to the linked virus.

As it still stands, there are no viruses for OS X.

dejo
Dec 13, 2005, 09:41 PM
"date_discovered 1989-00-00"

So, yeah, it's a little old.

This site does its readers a disservice by not stating which version of the OS these viruses apply to.

twoodcc
Dec 13, 2005, 10:10 PM
i don't really see the point in this, but anyways, i vote for Macintosh. even though i've been a windows user my whole life, and i know more about windows, i still vote for Macintosh, and i probably will only buy macs from now on unless i just have to have a windows machine for work or something

GorillaPaws
Dec 13, 2005, 10:17 PM
Where did they get a ratio of 1,000 to 1 viruses? Wouldn't that mean there was at least one Mac virus?

Worse, isn't there like 500,000 viruses/worms/malware for windows? Then this statement would imply 500 viruses for OSX, and, as we all know, that is just plain false. This kind of journalism is very irresponsible. The correct statement ought to have been: a ratio of 500,000 to 0." If they felt the need to discuss viruses for os9 and earlier, then they should have mentioned that in a separate remark with an explanation.

jackc
Dec 13, 2005, 11:00 PM
The correct statement ought to have been: a ratio of 500,000 to 0.

Maybe he just didn't want to use "ratio" with 0, so used 1 instead. Should have been more clear that viruses just aren't a problem on the Mac.

By the way, all that aside, this paragraph doesn't exactly entice me to want to subscribe to ConsumerReports.

SummerBreeze
Dec 14, 2005, 12:17 AM
By the way, all that aside, this paragraph doesn't exactly entice me to want to subscribe to ConsumerReports.

Me either. Honestly, what bothered me was that they implied that OS X doesn't handle entertainment as well as Windows. I mean, haven't they seen FrontRow?

greatdevourer
Dec 14, 2005, 01:01 AM
The security risk where a widget got installed automatically without the user's intervention is a vulnerability, not a virus. Patched in 10.4.1

Security count:
Viruses: None
Rootkits: 1, requires admin password every login (a dead monkey could figure out that asking your password after you've logged in is sucpicious)
Root-Vulns: Almost all but the occasional 0day are patched

solvs
Dec 14, 2005, 04:14 AM
By the way, all that aside, this paragraph doesn't exactly entice me to want to subscribe to ConsumerReports.
One of the many reasons I no longer do. They may be great for toasters, but when it comes to anything more complicated (especially electronics they know nothing about) I wouldn't exactly trust them. Sadly, many still do. Even their compliments are backhanded or based on incorrect info.

Be nice if you e-mail them.

Seasought
Dec 14, 2005, 06:54 AM
i don't really see the point in this, but anyways, i vote for Macintosh. even though i've been a windows user my whole life, and i know more about windows, i still vote for Macintosh, and i probably will only buy macs from now on unless i just have to have a windows machine for work or something

I guess it's just to point out that consumer reports did some sort of comparison (even if it was luke warm or ambiguous in nature) and they found Apple to have those advantages listed in the article.

I kind of wish there had been more to that but oh well.

TwitchOSX
Dec 14, 2005, 11:19 AM
Just wanted to chime in on the tech support india thing. I had a bad call one time when calling in to Quark tech support. Obviously was in India or some other country. Was really hard to understand the persons I was speaking too and they didnt seem to know much about the problem. I am always nice, but it was annoying and just another reason why I hate using Quark products.

yellow
Dec 14, 2005, 11:23 AM
Well, kudos for TRYING Consumer Reports.. but I give you an F for accomplishment.

They rate 3 Mac models... according to their listing:

"MACINTOSH MODELS Include both budget- and workhorse-class models."

And these are the 3 models they review:

"Apple iMac G5 1.9-GHz PowerPC G5, Apple eMac Combo Drive 1.42-GHz PowerPC G4, Apple Mac Mini 1.42-GHz PowerPC G4"

I'm sorry, I see 3 budget Macs there.. there's no "workhorse" among them.

:rolleyes:

sjk
Dec 14, 2005, 01:55 PM
I for one, always try to be polite with whomever I'm talking to on the phone. Firm yes, abusive no.Try? It's not natural for you to be polite? :)

I've never understood why so many people find the need to be abusive to those they consider of lesser stature (secretaries, delivery people, phone support, etc...) they're just trying to do their job, and without them where would the rest of us be?I know what you mean even if the "without them" and "the rest of us" part at the end seems tainted with a bit of presumably unintended and possibly unavoidable superiority/inferiority prejudice. I've had plenty of head-slapping "oh, geeze, that's not really how I meant it!" moments in my writing.

I wonder if certain people who behave abusively like that have never worked in service/support positions. And maybe some who have are seeking a form of vicarious revenge (perhaps unconsciously) for previous experiences "inflicted" on them while in that position.

We're surely not lacking for more patience and kindness all around, regardless of who we are and what we do.

balamw
Dec 14, 2005, 06:55 PM
Try? It's not natural for you to be polite? :)
I should have said try to stay polite. ;) I always start out that way, but sometimes that can be difficult when dealing with customer support as they insist on doing everything in their power to avoid actually helping you....

My tongue was planted firmly in cheek so I should probably have used one of these :rolleyes: :p :eek: ;) in my "rest of us" comment, but now I'm just left with :o.

I have direct experience with both types of abusive personalities. Those who have never had to work for/with anyone else nor ever could, and those who temporarily escape that fate and take it out on everyone around them. Strangely these types were both quite commonly found in grad school, which is one reason why we kept losing our department's administrative assistants. :(

Staying on topic:
I'm sorry, I see 3 budget Macs there.. there's no "workhorse" among them. :rolleyes:

I had the same reaction when reading the piece in print, but remembered that the magazine is called Consumer Reports and not Digital Professional Reports. ;) Any of these machines has more than enough power for your typical user, and are not significantly more expensive that a similarly equipped Dell or HP . They also didn't review any Dell Precision Workstations or Alienware boxes.

I continue to subscribe for two main reasons. 1) Centralized notification of recalls/safety issues (I have small kids) 2) their "Selling It" column on the back page just makes me laugh.

B

Eric5h5
Dec 14, 2005, 09:10 PM
Where did they get a ratio of 1,000 to 1 viruses? Wouldn't that mean there was at least one Mac virus? Do they know something the rest of the world doesn't?

Sure, there have been Mac viruses. But they're lumping in Classic with OS X. They aren't bothering to say, or perhaps don't even realize, that Classic and OS X are two completely different and incompatible operating systems that don't really have anything in common, other than the name.

--Eric

nagromme
Dec 14, 2005, 09:18 PM
The goal of Consumer Reports is ostensibly to help consumers choose the best products and value for their needs.

They fall far short of that goal, in addition to having numerous factual errors in every topic that I know about (which leads me to doubt their coverage of other topics I DON'T know about).

They should be the ones HELPING non-savvy consumers decide between Mac and Windows. And for those kind of buyers, the best choice will most often be a Mac. Or a PC for gaming? Not for those people. They're better off gaming on a Mac or console.

If you're already tech-savvy and don't need to be educated by Consumer Reports, then you you're not the one using their computer reviews. Yet Consumer Reports always goes in assuming you've already chosen between Mac and Windows for your own private reasons--and that Windows is best because it sells the most. Does that make ANY sense?

Don't bother emailing them a correction. I've done it several times--on clear-cut factual points, in various product categories. They never print a correction, but more importantly, they repeat the same error the NEXT time they look at the same products. I think there may be a lot of ego getting in the way of factual reporting at CR in recent years. Why would their camera reviewers refuse to change the specs on a camera once I've pointed out the mistake?