Keynote: Apple Presentation Software Rumors

[MacRumors]

With so many new products introduced... one item which was not well predicted was Apple's Keynote application... but this oversight was due to the fact that that particular rumor unfortunately made it to the reject pile.

Backing up a little further, the word "Keynote" was trademarked (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2002/10/20021013024617.shtml) by Apple in September 2002... which spawned some correct speculation (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?threadid=12785#post169483)... but no hard evidence.

On Jan 1, 2003, we posted our 2002: Rumor Rejects and Unconfirmed report (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/01/20030101214437.shtml) which summarized various rumors that never made it to the front page... due to lack of supporting evidence.

The first item on the list was "Apple Branded Presentation Software" which was said to be Apple presentation software, similar to powerpoint... "everything was drag and drop in it. Graphics transitions, and media." In hindsight, this information was correct... as other items could be on that reject list...

[medea]

Yeah I'd say that Keynote was the biggest surprise at the expo, just about everyone seemed to forget about it during the rumor mongering before the show. It was a nice surprise though and it is what I think is the first step in Appleworks taking over as the supreme office app, I'm sure Jobs will wait to see the response from Keynote before bringing out anything else that could have to do with the future Appleworks (or whatever it may be called.)

[iShater]

So there is now an Apple Mail App, and Keynote, hmmm ... AppleWorks hasn't been updated in a while ... geez ... you think the other "Works" are gonna popup as stand-alone apps?

[rjrufo]

Originally posted by iShater
So there is now an Apple Mail App, and Keynote, hmmm ... AppleWorks hasn't been updated in a while ... geez ... you think the other "Works" are gonna popup as stand-alone apps?

That could be a possibility, if Apple is working on an office type app, they could be developing each peice seperatly, ie: word processor, spread sheet, Keynote, Mail, iCal, and Address Book, then bundle them together once they're good enough to compete with M$ Office.

[edit]
I would like to see tighter integration of Mail, iCal and Address Book, something like M$ Entourage. Not neccessarily one big app, but be able to link contacts with appointments and e-mail. I like that feature in Entourage. I can look up a contact and find when and if I had an appointment with that person, or go right to the e-mail that I either sent to or received from that person. I can also color coordinate contacts, appointments and e-mail, depending on category. An example are my customers; I have a category called "Customers" which is colored green. Any appointment or e-mail that I have with a customer is colored green also.

[mnkeybsness]

it just doesn't make sense as to why apple extended the office rebate if they are planning on unveiling their own "office"

[mymemory]

I think Key Note is a beauty, I have been in multimedia for 5 years now and I never felt atracted by Powerpoint even I had that need for things I do. With this new software some things are gonna change, specially if is compatible with PC Powerpoint!!! Can you imagine?

This key note (the event) was something, I can tell apple is not focused in processor speed, while every body else is focusing in processor speed, Apple is working with the field everybody else is lefting behind, that is a good strategy.

That means that if a mac is not the fstest computer in the market, is gonna be the most productive enviroment for the low and hi end consumer.

[wesmac]

I think Apple is moving towards separate, but seamlessly integrated apps..the best of both worlds....as shown in the iLife apps. I hope Keynote is only the first of these...it already has a "mini spreadsheet" integrated into it...is Excel next? :cool:

AppleWorks hasn't had a major version revision in what...3 years? I think Apple is going to abandon it, and offer a suite of programs at (unlike M$) a reasonable price. Possibly offer scaled-down versions as part of a "Works" app bundled free with every Mac, not just iMacs and iBooks.

Yes, I'm going to buy Keynote. I have Office X, but I really despise PowerPoint.

[rjrufo]

Originally posted by mnkeybsness
it just doesn't make sense as to why apple extended the office rebate if they are planning on unveiling their own "office"

Maybe they aren't ready to release it yet, so they need to do something.

[smashedapart]

This is a bit off topic, but, can anyone here use the new address-book-sync feature? When I log in, it still says "coming soon"...?!?!

-- smashedapart

[3G4N]

We are seeing Apple gradually growing more
into what Jobs called "a software company,"
especially now to weather the poor HW climate.*
Expect to see more in 2003. :)


*except those beautiful new laptops! drool...

[3G4N]

Originally posted by mnkeybsness
it just doesn't make sense as to why apple extended the office rebate if they are planning on unveiling their own "office"

MS is extending it, not Apple. MS was whining that Apple
wasn't doing enought to drive OSX adoption, thus MS wasn't selling enough Office X. This helps MS sell more Office X.

*And* Apple isn't ready to release their version of office. :)

[Doctor Q]

Originally posted by Macrumors
With so many new products introduced... one item which was not well predicted was Apple's Keynote application
The funny part is that Keynote was the only newly announced product that had been demonstrated to all of us previously, at last year's keynote speeches! We all watched that low-paid beta tester (Steve) trying it out and we didn't even bother to ask "What's it named? Can we have a copy too?"

[Brandon Sharitt]

Originally posted by medea
Yeah I'd say that Keynote was the biggest surprise at the expo

I don't know. While everyone mostly expected the web browser, I think it using KHTML caught everyone off guard. I don't think I recall reading any thing about this any where, not even someone rambling in the forums. Before today, if you would have told people that the browser wasn't based on Gecko, they would assume OmniWeb, Opera, or even IE before Konquerer.

[Doctor Q]

How does Apple develop such products without the story leaking out? Do they behead squealers or make them use Windoze?

[RogueLdr]

Originally posted by rjrufo


That could be a possibility, if Apple is working on an office type app, they could be developing each peice seperatly, ie: word processor, spread sheet, Keynote, Mail, iCal, and Address Book, then bundle them together once they're good enough to compete with M$ Office.

[edit]
I would like to see tighter integration of Mail, iCal and Address Book, something like M$ Entourage. Not neccessarily one big app, but be able to link contacts with appointments and e-mail. I like that feature in Entourage. I can look up a contact and find when and if I had an appointment with that person, or go right to the e-mail that I either sent to or received from that person. I can also color coordinate contacts, appointments and e-mail, depending on category. An example are my customers; I have a category called "Customers" which is colored green. Any appointment or e-mail that I have with a customer is colored green also.

iShater and you both get right to it. If Apple continues on this trajectory for the forseeable future then they will have about 4 different Apps (notice i didnt say iApps...Keynote seems pretty solid for a pro, on paper at least) to assemble for an "Office" suite. At $99 each, that would be $396 for the lot of them...or $103 less than MS Office. They can keep dribbling them out and still offer a price advantage to the Mac user. And when all is said and done, they can offer the "AppleOffice" suite for $349 and make out like bandits.
The key here is to be able to maintain full compatablility with MS office and offer features that MS has never considered.
I am torn, however, on whether Apple would be best served by going through their expanded feature list first and then saying "Oh, by the way, this can import and export MS Office files as though they were native." or by declaring Office compatiblity right off the bat and then going into their many ways to surpass the abilities of Office.
Any opinions on what would be the best avenue for Apple to pursue?

RL

[RogueLdr]

Originally posted by Doctor Q
How does Apple develop such products without the story leaking out? Do they behead squealers or make them use Windoze?

Sorry for the double post but you replied while I was writing my last one.

After the brouhaha with the iMac LCD last year, AAPL seems to have really clamped down on who has access to new products. (Although, I must say that the COVER OF TIME MAGAZINE was bound to get out before it hit the stands, just given the number of people that see the Quark/InDesign pages onscreen and that see the plates in the pressroom. That one would have gotten out even if Time Canada hadn't dropped the ball in a major way.)
ThinkSecret had alot to say about AAPL clearing the field of "journalists" from the rumors sites. It looks like Jobs is really adamant about being able to be the one to make the splash!
Although with Keynote, noone really thought of Apple in this context before, so it didn't gather alot of subsidiary threads after it was mentioned. (even though an Apple replacement for MS Office was mentioned more than once)

RL

[cyberfunk]

This lack of pre-keynote information on Keynote is simply unforgivable.... suuuure macrumors predicted the last minute 12 & 17 inchers, sure, they had firewire and there was a browser, and suuure there were iApp updates w/ a bundling charge. But how could arn not see this one smack dab in the face! Come on ! you're slacking ! chop chop !

Seriously, you humble yourself too much MacRumors, take pride in getting it 95 % right. :)

[Furious Tiger]

Originally posted by mnkeybsness
it just doesn't make sense as to why apple extended the office rebate if they are planning on unveiling their own "office"

It makes BUSINESS SENSE!

[Furious Tiger]

Originally posted by Doctor Q
How does Apple develop such products without the story leaking out? Do they behead squealers or make them use Windoze?

I remeber reading a long time ago that apple use to purposely leak rumors (like some companies do). But they use to do to see who was leaking rumors. Example. Three people were lead to believe three different rumors. now if any of the three rumors were leaked they knew exactly who leaked the rumor, etc. pretty cool, huh?

[Furious Tiger]

Originally posted by cyberfunk
This lack of pre-keynote information on Keynote is simply unforgivable.... suuuure macrumors predicted the last minute 12 & 17 inchers, sure, they had firewire and there was a browser, and suuure there were iApp updates w/ a bundling charge. But how could arn not see this one smack dab in the face! Come on ! you're slacking ! chop chop !

Seriously, you humble yourself too much MacRumors, take pride in getting it 95 % right. :)

I believe that Dave Pogue (when he worked for MacWorld Mag) did an article on rumor sites some years back and claim to the conclusion that the sites really have no solid insight on what is really coming out during a Keynote so many months away. He believed that it was pure speculation on the sites themselves. He however did admitt that some of them do get confirmations 24 to 48 hours before the Keynote. Arns posting of the laptops was proof of this theory.

[QuiteSure]

Originally posted by wesmac
Yes, I'm going to buy Keynote. I have Office X, but I really despise PowerPoint.

Unfortunately, my quicktime feed was erratic during the Keynote portion of the Keynote. Having only cursory (but satisfactory) experience with PowerPoint, I wonder what the specific perceived advantages to Keynote are over PowerPoint that would justify the additional $99 pricetag to existing MS Office owners.

[wrylachlan]

Did any one else think the idea of XML automated daily presentations was stunningly powerful? That's the feature that really gets me about Keynote.

[Wash!!]

I always wanted to konw what he (steve) use for his presentations I knew it was not powerpoint.

I buying today .... goodbye powersucks!!!

[G4scott]

Originally posted by QuiteSure


Unfortunately, my quicktime feed was erratic during the Keynote portion of the Keynote. Having only cursory (but satisfactory) experience with PowerPoint, I wonder what the specific perceived advantages to Keynote are over PowerPoint that would justify the additional $99 pricetag to existing MS Office owners.

Keynote is much more professional looking than PowerPoint. It doesn't look like some cheesy pixilated presentation that someone can build with Hypercard. It uses Quartz to beautifully render your presentation. It's like PowerPoint on steroids, and more. The main benefit though, is the quality of the presentation. It just looks so much better than anything anyone with PowerPoint can come up with. And as Jobs said, you can have professional looking presentations without having a whole graphics design team working for you. Besides, the whole open-source thing is well worth it. Allowing other developers to put their best ideas into it will make this a wonderful product. If only microsoft would pull its head out of its @$$, and realize that open source is better than their proprietary crap. But that'll never happen because world domination is their goal, and they won't stop unless someone like Apple shows that people can stand up to them.

[bretm]

Originally posted by smashedapart
This is a bit off topic, but, can anyone here use the new address-book-sync feature? When I log in, it still says "coming soon"...?!?!

-- smashedapart

You mean logging in at the apple web site? I never do that. But my address book gets synced just fine. Make sure you're not still using the beta version of iSync and all will be well. iCal was updated as well to 1.0.2.

[mstecker]

I'm an old-time NeXT-er, and from what I saw of Keynote during the ... um ... Keynote, it looks suspiciously like a fantastic application that used to be available for the NeXT called Concurrence - made by Lighthouse Deisgn.

Lighthouse was eventually bought by Sun, and their code scuttled after an abortive attempt to port everything to Java. Still, I know that Steve used Concurrence at NeXT and loved it. I wouldn't be suprised at all if they re-hired some of the old lighthouse people to redo it.

If you take a look at OmniGraffle, it is clearly a rewrite of Diagram! (also from Lighthouse Deisgn) for the NeXT. In fact, it even reads NeXT .diagram files. Does anyone have a copy of Keynote yet? Can someone tells me if it knows how to import ".concur" files? This would be both a dead giveaway and a cool feature.

Anyone else who knows Concurrence able to comment?

[JBracy]

I did some presentations with Apple a few months ago (when I worked for Quark) I wondered then why everyone was running PowerPoint Test Drive on their Macs instead of the full version. I'm now guessing that they created the presentation in a beta of Keynote and because others (such as me) would be using the same machine had to run it from PP.

[praetorian_x]

telling, isn't it: Most rumor sites talk about what they got *right*. Macrumors is talking about the one thing it got wrong...

I guess when you phullie-ownz everyone else, you can be humble.

[Furious Tiger]

Originally posted by mstecker
I'm an old-time NeXT-er, and from what I saw of Keynote during the ... um ... Keynote, it looks suspiciously like a fantastic application that used to be available for the NeXT called Concurrence - made by Lighthouse Deisgn.

Lighthouse was eventually bought by Sun, and their code scuttled after an abortive attempt to port everything to Java. Still, I know that Steve used Concurrence at NeXT and loved it. I wouldn't be suprised at all if they re-hired some of the old lighthouse people to redo it.

If you take a look at OmniGraffle, it is clearly a rewrite of Diagram! (also from Lighthouse Deisgn) for the NeXT. In fact, it even reads NeXT .diagram files. Does anyone have a copy of Keynote yet? Can someone tells me if it knows how to import ".concur" files? This would be both a dead giveaway and a cool feature.

Anyone else who knows Concurrence able to comment?

You can still download them: http://lighthouse.ithinksw.com/
I remember it, but can't remember if it interacted like Keynote, I was very young (i am 33). Enjoy if you still have a NeXT Box.

[Codemonkey]

Ya, now that I type it it sounds cutesy.... but what if they do for office apps like they're doing for iLife? Release them piecemeal to see how they weather (essentially betas), then once they've got a stable base bundle them together into an iWork suite.

Based upon what we just saw with iLife, this could be how they venture deeper into the corporate IT coffers?

Heck, this would be a good way to get soho businesses on the Apple bandwagon as well.

[chicagdan]

To me, Keynote was the best announcement of the day by Jobs. PowerPoint has been systematically ruining my life for the past four years, taking what was once a fun and lucrative speechwriting career and turning into technology slavery. I've dreamed of the day someone would have the balls to challenge this wretched piece of software.

I wonder why everyone keeps asking about a new office suite when Apple is doing something much smarter -- filling market niches one by one. Maybe the whole point is that no one should have to buy a full office suite if they don't use all the components.

Two days and counting until I uninstall PowerPoint from my iMac forever.

[Codemonkey]

Originally posted by chicagdan

[snip]
I wonder why everyone keeps asking about a new office suite when Apple is doing something much smarter -- filling market niches one by one. Maybe the whole point is that no one should have to buy a full office suite if they don't use all the components.
[snip]

Uh.... actually, you _can_ buy the Office components one by one. You technically don't have to buy the Office X suite...

Of course, the individual apps are grossly overpriced, and together costs about as much as a small car, but still... :-P

Love the slavery comment!

[granex]

I also thought that the screen shots looked a lot like Concurrence for the NeXT, which I used for a number of years. PowerPoint does somethings better, but the thing that I hate about Microsoft products is how poorly they interact with other non MS programs.

I used to do all of my graphics in postscript on the NeXT and then be able to move things around with no problems. Concurrence could show anything I made on the NeXT simply because of the system software.

The layout of Keynote definitely looks similar. It wouldn't be too hard to mimic the functionality using the Cocoa frameworks.

[Apple][Forever]

Not to mention some of the other stuff on that list... looks like the "new iBook at SF" rumor was sorta true (12" PB), and FireWire 800 (of course, that was more of a given than a rumor, but still.)

CONGRATULATIONS to Arn and MacRumors for being right on the money!

Here were MY predictions from Dec. 16th:


Oh, and an iMac speed bump and elimination of the 15" LCD model.

$100 price cuts on PowerMacs.

iMovie, iTunes, iSync updates.

No Bluetooth, portables were just updated and I believe Apple is barely making the $999 price point on iBook.

No 970s, too early.

No new devices or updates to the iPod.

Clarification of OS 9 plans (Officially Dead as of end of 2003 would be my guess.)


and that's why I don't run a rumor site.

[OSeXy!]

(scratching head) Very strange...

I gave a lecture at my old architecture school about 6 weeks ago and as I was setting up my PowerBook, the school's AV technician looked at my screen and said, "thank god we Mac Users won't have to slum it on PowerPoint much longer!". I asked him what he meant - a new version of iPhoto perhaps? He told me I'd find out exactly what he meant on January 7th! I didn't think that much more about it, but now I'm thinking: "Hmm... Where the hell did he get his info?"

Ps. Hats off to the MacRumors team for their pre-MW insights and to Blakespot again for his real-time coverage! So much more concise and informative than, e.g. MOSR's! MacRumors is the real thing.

[tpavell]

Since Apple can't win by putting out cheaper or faster hardware, they'll beat MS by putting out cheaper but better software. Turn the tables so to speak. iLife completed the goal of winning over the home user, Keynote is just the beginning of winning over business users. In time, corporate thinking will turn around. After enough positive press reviews and ROI reports, it will be undeniable that paying a few more dollars for hardware, while saving on software and gaining productivity, will win out. It will take time, but I predict we'll see some major company switch to Apple and Apple will make sure everyone hears about it. Hasn't publisher O'Reilly already made some mention about switching to X-serve?

[cryptochrome]

Let's hope an Apple Office suite includes a full relational database app. The one thing missing from MS Office v.X is Access - and surely Apple could do a better job than that (and make it useful for external SQL DBs and XML-based data as well as native file-based DBs).

Let's face it - spreadsheets just don't cut it, especially with long fields and duplicate field entries. And for the record, the first thing they'd want to include is an editing interface much like the one used in Address Book - compact but extremely flexible.

[tpavell]

They could buyout Filemaker. Filemaker was a Claris product not long ago. And it's already cross platform and I think considered superior to Access.

[edenwaith]

This recent MW Expo certainly was a killer. One of the best in the past few years!

I was hoping for some word on an update on AppleWorks, but Keynote looks like a step in the proper direction. Now we can only speculate whether Apple will be redoing the entire office suite a piece at a time, or if they will come out with a new version of AppleWorks.

AppleWorks does about 99% of what I want to do, but there are two features I'd like to see.
- Better MS Word to AW conversion. Generally it does a pretty good job, but it can't translate pictures, and sometimes AW doesn't always see a .doc file as a MS Word file and run the translator.
- Save spreadsheets in HTML format. Very useful for converting a spreadsheet of grades to HTML and post them on the web.

But, if Keynote does stomp all over PowerPoint, then we might have something great to expect from Apple in the coming year. An updated, Apple-branded office suite would be...sweet. Especially with Apple's ability to push a little further and even spend time at rethinking things, office software by them would be nothing short from amazing.

My only critcism would be pricing. AppleWorks currently sells for $80 ($40 for education). That is a great deal compared to MS Office. Keynote alone costs $99. If Apple made an office suite with a word processor, spreadsheet, presentation software, and perhaps one or two other things such as a database or painting program, then I'd certainly buy it. One program I'd love to see improved is a painting program. Photoshop is great at what its meant to do, but it also has its limitations and costs A LOT. When I used to use PCs, my image program of choice was Paint Shop Pro. It did most of what I needed, had decent drawing tools, and didn't cost too much.

But I think there is still some development going on for AW. I've seen job postings on Apple's web site for AW Engineers. Considering AW 6.2.4 came out sometime in 2001, SOMETHING needs to be updated.


Now, does anyone have a clue if new Apple software such as Safari and Keynote absolutely NEED 10.2, or was it written to first check the OS version and close the program if they didn't have Jaguar yet?

Now what Apple needs to do is make a Mac and PC version of AW and charge at a lower price. $100 is great, $200 is border line, but above that, and I think they won't make tons of sales.

Who knows what lengths Apple goes to stop info being leaked out. They sued some guy/company when some info was released too early. But, hey, they aren't Hitler or Stalin who had thousands (if not millions) of people killed for whatever reason. In a German Culture class I took several years ago, supposedly 5000 people died after a bomb went off that injured Hitler, but did not succeed in killing him.

[edenwaith]

Originally posted by tpavell
Since Apple can't win by putting out cheaper or faster hardware, they'll beat MS by putting out cheaper but better software. Turn the tables so to speak. iLife completed the goal of winning over the home user, Keynote is just the beginning of winning over business users. In time, corporate thinking will turn around. After enough positive press reviews and ROI reports, it will be undeniable that paying a few more dollars for hardware, while saving on software and gaining productivity, will win out. It will take time, but I predict we'll see some major company switch to Apple and Apple will make sure everyone hears about it.

Excellent point. It might take a tital wave of press releases to infultrate the minds of the general business world, but if Apple receives enough positive press, then a few wide thinkers might start making some other decisions.

Some people complain about the necessary time to 'retrain' people on how to use a different OS. There still aren't that many differences between Windows and Mac OS, in my eyes. I would say it might take a few hours to find what they are looking for. But if the standard icons for the software they use most often (office suite apps, let's say), they just need to click on them, and away they go!

Also I believe that Apple turning more into a software company is a good move. It costs just a few dollars for the documentation, box and CD to distribute, so most of the money they get is a profit. Whereas with hardware, there is a much larger overhead on the cost of the parts and assembly and checking that things work OK. Look at two computer companies: Oracle and Microsoft. What do they sell? Software, and have been quite successful in the process. What about hardware makers? Many of them have been going down the tubes since the various companies were trying to out-compete each other, and so pretty much everyone lost out (except for Dell on the PC world).

[Codemonkey]

What with all this talk about turning Apple into a more vialbe software company... I wonder if this might mean that if they actually need to rely on Marklar that they'll still have a rock solid base of other software (server, IT, corporate, soho, consumer) to keep on steaming along...

Heh. Sorry for the Marklar comment, not like it's been beaten to death or anything...

[QuiteSure]

I would be very surprised to see Apple take on MS Word and MS Excel. Those are two superb and deeply entrenched apps. I've been using both of these apps since 1988 and I cannot conceive of Apple overtaking them.

Face it: Word and Excel are kind of boring, but necessary. I don't see why Apple would want to compete in that arena.

That said, if Apple does decide to do its own high level office suite, I would certainly take a very close look.

[Doctor Q]

Apple should not compete with Word and Excel because (1) it's too hard to play catch up with such entrenched applications; (2) getting businesspeople to switch from a "standard" would be a hard sell, even if Apple created cheaper and technically superior products; (3) Apple needs to support some Microsoft products just to keep Microsoft happily in the Mac market. Keep your friends close, and your (potential) enemies closer!

QuickTime competing with Windows Media? Keynote competing with Powerpoint? Final Cut Express competing with Premiere? You bet! Apple is a multimedia specialist.

FileMaker competing with Access. Well, maybe.

AppleWorks Extreme competing with Word and Excel? No Thanks.

[jobberwacky]

Originally posted by mstecker
I'm an old-time NeXT-er, and from what I saw of Keynote during the ... um ... Keynote, it looks suspiciously like a fantastic application that used to be available for the NeXT called Concurrence - made by Lighthouse Deisgn.



Maybe some ex-NeXTers did have an influence. However, Keynote also has clear similiarities to AppleWorks. AW comes with a template collection for presentations and you can integrate tables (but you can't make graphics from them).

If a NeXTstep app influenced Keynote it's more likely to be Chartsmith. Actually, the makers of Chartsmith, http://www.blacksmith.com/, might be fairly pissed about Keynote. They only introduced an OSX version of Chartsmith about half a year ago.

[iSmell]

Originally posted by G4scott

Besides, the whole open-source thing is well worth it. Allowing other developers to put their best ideas into it will make this a wonderful product.

I couldn't find anything specific about this on the website, but I think the file format is an open standard and the program is not open source. This is an important, distinction. Other developers won't be able to mess with with Keynote itself, but they will be able to mess with/create Keynote files.

[iJon]

Originally posted by Doctor Q
How does Apple develop such products without the story leaking out? Do they behead squealers or make them use Windoze?
Personally I think we will be seeing less and less leaks. Steve does not take leaks seriously. Apple made an example of that other guy and they are tearing the s*** out of him and his life is a living hell right now. I know I wouldn't leak if i worked for apple now, not worth it at all.

iJon

[-hh]

Originally posted by Doctor Q
Apple should not compete with Word and Excel because (1) it's too hard to play catch up with such entrenched applications; (2) getting businesspeople to switch from a "standard" would be a hard sell, even if Apple created cheaper and technically superior products; (3) Apple needs to support some Microsoft products just to keep Microsoft happily in the Mac market. Keep your friends close, and your (potential) enemies closer!

True, but we all know that its only a matter of time until Microsoft hurts Apple again by dangling yet another old unupdated version of MacOffice, etc.

It is the huge number of businesses out there who are absolutely pissed off at Microsoft's current licencing policies, particularly how its extorting large gobs of money out of them that is the opportunity, and that's the reason that Apple should go after MS-Office MindShare.

Microsoft has made themselves too expensive for businesses to be happy in paying the bill.

Industry is already in a "Switch" campaign to an affordable (no annual fee) MS-Office compatible, Open Standards product, and currently, that's Linux.

Apple seems to be slowly lining up the pieces to do this as well ... let's just hope that they're not too slow!


-hh

[MrMacMan]

Arn like you needed anoter topic saying your right, again?
We get it you are 99.99999% right all the time, we get it. :D

We really didn't need to know you were right, the fact is:
MacRumors are always correct intill proved otherwise.

[robodweeb]

Originally posted by tpavell
They could buyout Filemaker. Filemaker was a Claris product not long ago.

Both Claris and Filemaker, Inc. are wholly-owned subsidiaries of Apple ... so Apple already owns Filemaker.

I would love to see tight integration between Keynote and Filemaker Pro ... without necessarily having to learn XML ... and I don't think it's too far off ...

cheerz!

[TMay]

Screw presentations. This will be a terrific application to create photo albums that I print!

Even though I have both Pagemaker and Indesign, this looks like what an entry level page layout program should be.

Quartz rulz...

[Furious Tiger]

Originally posted by robodweeb


Both Claris and Filemaker, Inc. are wholly-owned subsidiaries of Apple ... so Apple already owns Filemaker.

I would love to see tight integration between Keynote and Filemaker Pro ... without necessarily having to learn XML ... and I don't think it's too far off ...

cheerz!

I cound'nt agree with you more. My gut is that they will eventually compete with the MS Office sweet (they have no obligation since they no longer have an agreement or contract with MS). I think that they are going to put the pieces of the puzzle together in a very robust and competitive suite like they did with iLife. individual apps with tight intergration. They need to assure that it will seamlessly interact with .doc, .xls as they made sure that the .ppt would work with PowerPoint and vise versa.

[Awimoway]

Originally posted by -hh


True, but we all know that its only a matter of time until Microsoft hurts Apple again by dangling yet another old unupdated version of MacOffice, etc.

It is the huge number of businesses out there who are absolutely pissed off at Microsoft's current licencing policies, particularly how its extorting large gobs of money out of them that is the opportunity, and that's the reason that Apple should go after MS-Office MindShare.

Microsoft has made themselves too expensive for businesses to be happy in paying the bill.

Industry is already in a "Switch" campaign to an affordable (no annual fee) MS-Office compatible, Open Standards product, and currently, that's Linux.

Apple seems to be slowly lining up the pieces to do this as well ... let's just hope that they're not too slow!


-hh

I agree. I think it's all about timing. Once upon a time, there were a lot of office suites (Lotus, Corel/WordPerfect, etc.), but MS has basically killed them all off. Because of Office's ubiquity, we assume that the war is over and MS has won. NOW is the time to step forward and offer compelling alternatives. Apple seems to be the only really motivated, ambitious (willing to challenge MS) developer left, and I wish them luck if, as it seems, their strategy is to piece-by-piece replace Office.

[Codemonkey]

Originally posted by Awimoway


[snip]
but MS has basically killed them all off.
[snip]


What makes me leery is exactly this... we've seen a very proven track record of this 'back in the day'... and who knows exactly how much this will p^ss Bill off? Will this be the proverbial straw before he just decides to bury Apple*?

* Assuming, for the sake of argument that it's even possible...

[Doctor Q]

There is also an "in between" approach. Instead of Apple competing head on with Word/Excel or Apple flat out conceding, Apple could lend a hand to the open source "office" efforts, in the same way that they contributed to the open source that underlies Keynote. With Apple's finishing touches (interface bells and whistles, integration with other products) over an open source base, the price could be cheaper (less Apple development) and businesspeople would have a clear choice: Don't wanna pay for MS Office? Use a very affordable alternative, either the free X-Windows version or the cheap Apple-branded Mac-customized version.

[Awimoway]

Originally posted by Codemonkey


What makes me leery is exactly this... we've seen a very proven track record of this 'back in the day'... and who knows exactly how much this will p^ss Bill off? Will this be the proverbial straw before he just decides to bury Apple*?

* Assuming, for the sake of argument that it's even possible...

I almost wrote in my first post that we all live in fear of MS and assume they are undefeatable.

But what I'm really saying is that times have changed. MS won with its office suite because of the leverage they gained from their OS. Now that is a disdvantage. Instead of it being convenient or seamless to use Office with Windows, it's oppressive. Windows is oppressive. People are aching to get free.

I speak from experience because I bought my first Mac last summer. I really believe that in the next 10 or 15 years Apple will regain market share to somewhere in the 20-30% range if they continue to innovate on the software front and keep a high profile (a la Apple Stores, etc.). They may never "win" because most people are sheep, but they should survive and strengthen.

[Furious Tiger]

Originally posted by Doctor Q
There is also an "in between" approach. Instead of Apple competing head on with Word/Excel or Apple flat out conceding, Apple could lend a hand to the open source "office" efforts, in the same way that they contributed to the open source that underlies Keynote. With Apple's finishing touches (interface bells and whistles, integration with other products) over an open source base, the price could be cheaper (less Apple development) and businesspeople would have a clear choice: Don't wanna pay for MS Office? Use a very affordable alternative, either the free X-Windows version or the cheap Apple-branded Mac-customized version.

Good one DQ

[pretentious]

Ok I don't get it...
Everyone is saying that is good for Apple to be attacking MS, is anyone concerned about Apple if MS does pull out development on the Mac?
Is anyone concerned about the kind of hit that Apple will take in the stockmarket with the end of MacBU?
What about developers that pull out just because MS thinks that it is no longer a viable platform?
What about users/switchers that will leave or not join the Mac platform with out Office:Mac?

Are we sure that Apple can take on all of these issues and prevail?

I'm concerned that Apple might be 'tickling a monster', that it wont be able to survive from. We should think what we may lose before we start going "Microsoft evil, Apple Good", and cast MS away like a bad douche rag.
I think we should be thinking of the implications if Apple does happen to completely piss them off.
Your thoughts??

[QuiteSure]

Originally posted by Awimoway
Windows is oppressive. People are aching to get free.

Sadly, no. People are and have always been happy with "good enough." Windows is good enough. For many things (browsing) Windows is actually good. 95% of all computer owners can't be completely wrong.

This is why the Apple retail stores are so important. Now macevangelists have a place to prove how wonderful Apple products are to the possibly converted.

But no one is "aching" to get free.

[Furious Tiger]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by pretentious


is anyone concerned about Apple if MS does pull out development on the Mac?
[B]No not really. Consider the route apple is taking, OpenSource. The applications or suits are out ther already. All we need to do is contribute to the movement and add the Apple flair and twist and apple would be able to compete.

What about developers that pull out just because MS thinks that it is no longer a viable platform?
Quite the opposite is happening. The Devs are flocking from near and far. Linux Devs as well.

What about users/switchers that will leave or not join the Mac platform with out Office:Mac?
Again... If we have the apps inplace because of the OpenSource Movment and can show people that "you won't be missing a thing if you use a mac", we will be ok.

MacBU? We'll just hire them back. :D

[MasterX (OSiX)]

Apple is far smarter than some of you give them credit for.

MS is out of courts, but still in hot water. Consider them tranqed. Right now MS can't do diddly to anyone, because they did in fact come very close to becomming a hardware, OS and office-solutions set of companies instead of the evil empire we know and love, er hate now.

Apple would be tromping around had they gotten the 970 in December. That's the real shame, but they arent sitting still. Software development takes time, a LOT of it. Less coding time under OSX, but still time to invent innovative ideas, I mean look at iDVD. Stuff like that doesn't fly out of your as.. you get the idea.

Hardware on the other hand can turn overnight. If Apple had a 1.8Ghz 64-bit IBM970 powered Dual-processor PowerMac right now you think ANYONE would be CONSIDERING switching to windows for "performance". Of course not.

Apple is no longer afraid of Microsoft. There is no product I can think of which I prefer over Apple's own. I suppose Word, but for what I do I use TextEdit over everything else. It's fast, simple, and has spell check. I ordered Keynote the day it was available. Why? Powerpoint hasnt changed ONE FEATURE since it came out. Or at least none I can think of. The Mac version got more stuff than the PC one. At least under Office v.X the text becomes anti-aliased once it's done with the animation. Still, Keynote is on a different level now.

Apple saw MS's empired based on two things: Office and Windows. OSX is better than Windows, and now Apple has 2/5ths of the Office Empire beat (FileMaker has proved better dozens of times by reviews and corporations, and from SJ's own presentations we know that Keynote kicks the crap out of PowerPoint).

Apple is biding there time for when the hardware is available for them to reclaim more markets. I will end with a deep thought:

People buy a computer for the hardware. People stay with a computer for the software.

[Furious Tiger]

Originally posted by MasterX (OSiX)
Apple is far smarter than some of you give them credit for.

MS is out of courts, but still in hot water. Consider them tranqed. Right now MS can't do diddly to anyone, because they did in fact come very close to becomming a hardware, OS and office-solutions set of companies instead of the evil empire we know and love, er hate now.

Apple would be tromping around had they gotten the 970 in December. That's the real shame, but they arent sitting still. Software development takes time, a LOT of it. Less coding time under OSX, but still time to invent innovative ideas, I mean look at iDVD. Stuff like that doesn't fly out of your as.. you get the idea.

Hardware on the other hand can turn overnight. If Apple had a 1.8Ghz 64-bit IBM970 powered Dual-processor PowerMac right now you think ANYONE would be CONSIDERING switching to windows for "performance". Of course not.

Apple is no longer afraid of Microsoft. There is no product I can think of which I prefer over Apple's own. I suppose Word, but for what I do I use TextEdit over everything else. It's fast, simple, and has spell check. I ordered Keynote the day it was available. Why? Powerpoint hasnt changed ONE FEATURE since it came out. Or at least none I can think of. The Mac version got more stuff than the PC one. At least under Office v.X the text becomes anti-aliased once it's done with the animation. Still, Keynote is on a different level now.

Apple saw MS's empired based on two things: Office and Windows. OSX is better than Windows, and now Apple has 2/5ths of the Office Empire beat (FileMaker has proved better dozens of times by reviews and corporations, and from SJ's own presentations we know that Keynote kicks the crap out of PowerPoint).

Apple is biding there time for when the hardware is available for them to reclaim more markets. I will end with a deep thought:

People buy a computer for the hardware. People stay with a computer for the software.

nicely said

[MasterX (OSiX)]

Thanks. I'd like to note I have an ability to out-do rumor sites. Sometimes I'm way off, but often I'm dead on. I thought it would be Philips (not TiVO) but I predicted a non-Apple set-top box which runs with Rendezvous. iSync/connection of iApps and "Steve Jobs Super-PowerPoint" were also predicted by me last year. I think I need a rumors site. :¬)

[chmorley]

Originally posted by QuiteSure
...95% of all computer owners can't be completely wrong.
Sure they can be. The majority is often completely wrong.
But no one is "aching" to get free. Also an overstatement. My boss switched two weeks ago because he was so achey. Unless you are implying they won't stay achey because they switch. Many are aching less already. Many others will follow.

Nonetheless, 20-30% market share seems pretty far-fetched. 8-10% might be possible, though.

Chris

[MasterX (OSiX)]

The hard part will be getting out of the 10% range. Once you hit 20% it's a one-on-one war with MS. 20% is a real market slice, 1-9% is still "niche" terretory. Once Apple hits 20% (i think 2006 would be optomistic, but not impossible. Depends on Intel and IBM a lot) they had better be prepaired to back up their anti-MS war with some amazing new software. By that time the anti-trust thing will be long gone and MS will be free to copy Apple. Thankfully Cocoa can keep Apple in the lead (Cocoa is 90% more efficient for programmers, Apple's figure, noy mine)

Also I have a rumor for you:
"Isnt it clever how apple took all these apps and products and used i-something as the name. now they have a web browser and it's called Safari. Then again Safari backwards is iRafas"

So kids, "Safari" 1.0 will be iRafas!!!

(just occured to me: Safari.... Jaguar? yeah, you know it)

[Furious Tiger]

Originally posted by MasterX (OSiX)

(just occured to me: Safari.... Jaguar? yeah, you know it)

you may be on to some thing

[Awimoway]

If for no other reason than mule-headedness, I stand by my use of "aching." A lot--probably a minority, perhaps even a relatively small one, but still a lot in terms of real numbers--of people resent MS but use it because they see no viable alternatives. When several states sued MS a few years ago, they knew their electorate would stand behind them even though a majority of computer users were MS customers. People use it because they think they have to. They feel the same toward it as they did old-time utility providers, as a necessary evil, a price-gouging, monopoly with abominably poor service and a "who cares" attitude. Maybe they don't ache because they don't think there's anything they can do about it, but when they see OS X close up, with iLife and the emerging office apps, they'll discover the ache and the cure simultaneously.

[JBracy]

Originally posted by MasterX (OSiX)
just occured to me: Safari.... Jaguar? yeah, you know it

Any Beach Boys fans? How about "Surfin' Safari"?

[rjrufo]

Originally posted by Awimoway
If for no other reason than mule-headedness, I stand by my use of "aching." A lot--probably a minority, perhaps even a relatively small one, but still a lot in terms of real numbers--of people resent MS but use it because they see no viable alternatives. When several states sued MS a few years ago, they knew their electorate would stand behind them even though a majority of computer users were MS customers. People use it because they think they have to. They feel the same toward it as they did old-time utility providers, as a necessary evil, a price-gouging, monopoly with abominably poor service and a "who cares" attitude. Maybe they don't ache because they don't think there's anything they can do about it, but when they see OS X close up, with iLife and the emerging office apps, they'll discover the ache and the cure simultaneously.

I know what you mean, I was an "acher" myself. When I was looking for my first computer many years ago, I was told by several people not to get a Mac because there wasn't any software for it. Well, almost two years ago, after being so sick and tired of Wondows, I started looking for an alternative. I found that Macs are all that I was looking for.

I've gone to Mac, and I'll never go back.

[artistry]

Originally posted by rjrufo

I would like to see tighter integration of Mail, iCal and Address Book, something like M$ Entourage. Not neccessarily one big app, but be able to link contacts with appointments and e-mail. I like that feature in Entourage. I can look up a contact and find when and if I had an appointment with that person, or go right to the e-mail that I either sent to or received from that person. I can also color coordinate contacts, appointments and e-mail, depending on category. An example are my customers; I have a category called "Customers" which is colored green. Any appointment or e-mail that I have with a customer is colored green also.

I agree 100% with this - I'm still toying with returning to Entourage for this reason - and it's implementation of Palm memos for which I still have to use Palm desktop!

[artistry]

Originally posted by mymemory
I think Key Note is a beauty, I have been in multimedia for 5 years now and I never felt atracted by Powerpoint even I had that need for things I do. With this new software some things are gonna change, specially if is compatible with PC Powerpoint!!! Can you imagine?

This key note (the event) was something, I can tell apple is not focused in processor speed, while every body else is focusing in processor speed, Apple is working with the field everybody else is lefting behind, that is a good strategy.

That means that if a mac is not the fstest computer in the market, is gonna be the most productive enviroment for the low and hi end consumer.

Keynote will be big in education, trust me. I'm in a position where I can recommend software to a lot of university lecturers in the UK (particularly art and design which is Mac-based - my Keynote order is on its way, so if it does half what it says, I'll be letting everyone know. I hope Apple pay me :rolleyes:

[artistry]

Originally posted by RogueLdr


Sorry for the double post but you replied while I was writing my last one.

After the brouhaha with the iMac LCD last year, AAPL seems to have really clamped down on who has access to new products. (Although, I must say that the COVER OF TIME MAGAZINE was bound to get out before it hit the stands, just given the number of people that see the Quark/InDesign pages onscreen and that see the plates in the pressroom. That one would have gotten out even if Time Canada hadn't dropped the ball in a major way.)
ThinkSecret had alot to say about AAPL clearing the field of "journalists" from the rumors sites. It looks like Jobs is really adamant about being able to be the one to make the splash!
Although with Keynote, noone really thought of Apple in this context before, so it didn't gather alot of subsidiary threads after it was mentioned. (even though an Apple replacement for MS Office was mentioned more than once)

RL

There's a lot to be said about the value of rumours for getting interest going, though I remember the reason why Apple are so silent these days on hardware developments - anyone else recall the days when a new Mac would come out alongside an announcement of the next model waiting in the wings? It must have killed a lot of sales and there was one point here in the UK when I remember a big reseller in the north going bust because no one was buying - literally none of the ad agencies, bureaus, in-house designers etc etc - simply because Apple announced what was six months down the line.

anyone remember the 'concept PC' that was 'announced' shortly after the iMac came out? that's another reason not to announce things too early - they don't show up. In Apple's case, Opendoc, HotSauce (tho maybe I dreamt that one!), Copland, themes etc etc. The only thing I remember them announcing significantly before the event is OSX...

In the meantime, rumours (so long as they raise interest rather than dampen demand) are good. I wouldn't be surprised if Apple 'leak' a few nuggets on purpose. A few near misses keep people happy, a few whoppers stop people getting too over the top and allow the real stories to be a surprise, and a few 'balloons' allow them to test the water with the faithful.

[QuiteSure]

Originally posted by artistry
my Keynote order is on its way, so if it does half what it says, I'll be letting everyone know. I hope Apple pay me :rolleyes:

Of course, like all other macusers, we don't ask for money; the continued health of our platform of choice is enough.;)

[artistry]

Originally posted by QuiteSure

I wonder what the specific perceived advantages to Keynote are over PowerPoint that would justify the additional $99 pricetag to existing MS Office owners.

Well for one thing, for a while your presnetations will look different from everyone else's (all presentations look alike these days).
You can produce graphics intensive presentations easily (Powerpoint is a bit of a pain)
Drag and drop Quicktime and graphics formats
Anti-aliased text (it makes a huge difference)
Clipping paths on graphics
Photoshop layered documents handled
Flash handled
Transitions are way ahead of PP
Nice themes - bit limited at the moment but it's an open format so expect third party themes all over the place
Powerpoint is old and hard to handle IMHO, Keynote appears fast and light.
Exports to Quicktime video for web deployment. Not HTML yet, but if you've tried Powerpoint's web export you might see this as a blessing in disguise!
Export to Powerpoint, JPG, PDF.

Oh save me typing, ;) have a look at the site (be sure to drill down and look at the movies and the deeper pages - I think there's a menu bar missing on the front page.)

By the way, I stumped up for Omni Outliner last night - what a great app. You know how sometimes you think 'what's the point'? I've achieved so much with it today. I can see me using it with Keynote to develop lectures and presentations.

[artistry]

Originally posted by wrylachlan
Did any one else think the idea of XML automated daily presentations was stunningly powerful? That's the feature that really gets me about Keynote.

If I was still in business I'd be making a mint out of this. A cool feature.

Just had an idea, actually ;)

[artistry]

Originally posted by Awimoway
If for no other reason than mule-headedness, I stand by my use of "aching." A lot--probably a minority, perhaps even a relatively small one, but still a lot in terms of real numbers--of people resent MS but use it because they see no viable alternatives. When several states sued MS a few years ago, they knew their electorate would stand behind them even though a majority of computer users were MS customers. People use it because they think they have to. They feel the same toward it as they did old-time utility providers, as a necessary evil, a price-gouging, monopoly with abominably poor service and a "who cares" attitude. Maybe they don't ache because they don't think there's anything they can do about it, but when they see OS X close up, with iLife and the emerging office apps, they'll discover the ache and the cure simultaneously.

I have a colleague who hates the Mac she's got at work because it doesn't have a page-down key or something. Or a delete/insert key. I remember seeing lots of people on my evening classes look for that key and decide they hated Macs because of it. The single-button mouse got them too, as does the no-bitton mouse.

My conclusion: people are strange.

PS as for the colleague - I'm giving her my extended keyboard in exhange for her non-extended one. I don't care as long as she SHUTS UP! I'll get it back when she leaves...

[rjrufo]

Originally posted by artistry



My conclusion: people are strange.



Very true. Someone else said in this forum (I don't remember which thread) that people are like sheep, which is also very true.

[G4scott]

Originally posted by iSmell


I couldn't find anything specific about this on the website, but I think the file format is an open standard and the program is not open source. This is an important, distinction. Other developers won't be able to mess with with Keynote itself, but they will be able to mess with/create Keynote files.

My bad. That's what I meant, but I didn't say it right.