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IngoB
Jan 8, 2003, 04:14 AM
Well, well, laptos replacing desktops - hmm? I don't think so. I mean, I do have a laptop and I have occasionally worked on it for a day. After that I need a massage because my shoulders are so cramped... :mad: The only way in which a laptop could replace a desktop for me is by buying one of those laptop stands which will bring it to eye level plus a full keyboard plus a mouse. Add that to the already steep price tag and you can pretty much forget about it in comparison to a desktop. Is anybody here seriously working (or playing...) on a laptop for hours except on the road?

If Apple had wanted to be truly innovative, they should have invented a laptop that can be split in pieces physically (keyboard, mousepad, screen, main body) and then form with an extra monitor stand a real desktop at home. When you want to travel, you just plug everything back together. Then we could truly forget about desktops, until then we need both.

I thought the spin SJ put on their laptop vs. desktop sales was hillarious. Apple is selling more laptops than desktops compared to competitors, simply because their desktop hardware is not keeping up with the competition whereas the laptops are still doing OK. So, I'm still waiting for something being done with regards to the iMac. What will now happen to that machine and when? Of all that "new" technology presented, what will be included? And will we get a decent speed bump and a better bus? :confused:

As a potential "switcher" I really have to say that the only major thing Apple has going for it is OS X and its apps. Since I have both lots of experience with Unix/Linux systems at Uni as well as the usual "argh, I hate every second of using it, but for most stuff one needs it" experience with Windows, I would clearly be delighted to switch to something that has a Unix backbone, a neat GUI and lots of "commercial" software.

It's funny how everybody is so pleased about this "great keynote". Hey, if Apple was a software developer for the Wintel word, this keynote would maybe mark the beginning of the end of Microsoft (and there was much rejoicing...). But they are not, they are selling a hardware+software package. You are not going to get many more desktop switchers without better hardware.

Megaquad
Jan 8, 2003, 04:23 AM
Is anybody here seriously working (or playing...) on a laptop for hours except on the road?

pretty much everybody?:rolleyes:
If you for some reason dont like 17" model there is always 15" model which will probably be updated soon to aluminium style..

eMac/iMac will probably be updated on 25th january.

brian0526
Jan 8, 2003, 06:56 AM
I too found the "spin" of laptop sales being a bigger portion of Apple's pie (pardon the pun) quite interesting.

I'm very disappointed Apple didn't bump the speed on the iMac. I want one. I want to switch. I want OS X. I want iApps. But, I'm getting the feeling the iMac is an outdated piece of hardware (at least from a speed and graphics perspective). And, unlike my PC, I can't upgrade it.

I'm not switching to a laptop for my desktop work and I don't think a LOT of home users will. My company provides a laptop for me (even though it's a piece of crap). For those people whose companies provide a single machine to act as a desktop and a portable, the iMac 17" is a FANTASTIC alternative. I mean it's a great machine. But, at $3,200 I could buy a great desktop and a decent laptop. I want to spend $2,000 and get a great desktop (read updated iMac).

Come on Apple. Don't cripple the iMac to improve your laptop sales. I know you can't give us 2 GHz. But, can you give us 1?

Waiting (impatiently)...

Brian

Mal
Jan 8, 2003, 08:28 AM
I don't know why you think this wasn't a huge keynote. They pretty much just gave Microsoft a kick in the pants, and a pretty hard one at that, with Keynote and Safari, and then tantalized them with iLife so that everyone using Microsoft will be able to see what they're missing. And they kicked butt over all the other competitors in the laptop field with the biggest and smallest laptops ever.

Besides, there's no point to Apple releasing a new desktop right now. Even if they released the best desktop ever created tomorrow, they would still boost their sales that much, because of the economy. There's just no point in releasing a minor update when you can stretch them out until you can bring out the fully functioning, well-tested, immediately available G5 (970 or otherwise). Wouldn't it be great if you could actually go to an Apple store and look at and buy a new computer the day it was announced at the keynote? Apple has never done that before. This may give them the time to get it ready for a presentation like that. Everyone who saw the keynote, either on the computer or live, would be rushing down to the store to get their's that day, and there would be no time for people to try and find the flaws after the adrenaline rush dies down, because they would have already bought the computer. Go ahead Apple, you bring out the computer that can replace my desktop, and I'm ready to buy it (once I get a little more money :D )

brian0526
Jan 8, 2003, 09:06 AM
Just to clarify my position. I thought it was a great keynote (and I'm not even a Mac user- yet). I was very happy about Keynote and can't wait until they take on Word and Excel. I think it's great Apple is going to have their own browser and I think the update to iLife looks great. All this made me want a Mac even more.

But, to a PC user making the switch there is the fear of buying outdated hardware (iMac)- particularly when that hardware is not upgradable (something we're used to). I want my Mac to be a productive machine for at least five years and I plan to begin doing digital video editing on it. So, I want a fast CPU, lots of bus speed, etc.

I'm not asking for the G5. But, there are faster G4s Appled could put in an iMac today and alleviate a little fear that some of us potential switchers have. It can't be a huge technology leap to put a 1 GHz or 1.25 GHz chip in it considering they're already in the PowerMacs.

If Apple is going to wait until they have a new processor ready to update the iMac, I think they're going to miss out on some potential switchers. I really don't want to buy a desktop machine that is slower than their fastest laptop.

Brian

irmongoose
Jan 8, 2003, 09:37 AM
I find that my iMac is going to suit me fine for the next four years.. I do lots of video editing and many times Photoshop work, and don't find it to be a bit slow. And now with iMovie 3 and iDVD 3, it's just going to get better. And I have the 15" 800 model with the slower graphics card! Have you tried sitting down and working with an iMac? Do you have a friend who has one, so maybe you could try doing some of the stuff you plan to do just to see how smoothly it goes? This is somewhere where that old line applies: don't judge a book by it's cover. Just because it's not fast enough in figures doesn't mean it's not fast enough for what you are going to be doing with it. Of course, if you use a PowerMac and and iMac together you will see a big difference in speed, but the thing is, you won't notice any lack of speed if you just use the iMac. I know I don't. And again, I plan to use this machine for the next 3, 4 years.





irmongoose

orthodoc
Jan 8, 2003, 09:44 AM
Brian, I hear you. I have been waiting for an upgraded iMac for quite some time. I think the recent boost in the laptops are a good sign for desktops. My guess is that within a few weeks the iMac will get faster chips and bus (likely similar to the new 17 inch powerbook). I am also expecting airport extreme compatibility, internal bluetooth, and maybe firewire 2. I think you'll be happy with the next upgrade. I am a recent switcher (1 year ago). Don't worry so much about clock speed. Also, I don't see any computer lasting 5 years (at least not for me).

Orthodoc

Le Big Mac
Jan 8, 2003, 10:06 AM
Originally posted by IngoB
The only way in which a laptop could replace a desktop for me is by buying one of those laptop stands which will bring it to eye level plus a full keyboard plus a mouse.

If Apple had wanted to be truly innovative, they should have invented a laptop that can be split in pieces physically (keyboard, mousepad, screen, main body) and then form with an extra monitor stand a real desktop at home. When you want to travel, you just plug everything back together. Then we could truly forget about desktops, until then we need both.

The Duo was a great concept that Apple abandoned in the early 1990s. Combine a laptop with a docking station, to which one could connect a real monitor, a keyboard, and a mouse. And one didn't have to connect 6 cables--just pop it into the dock. Anyone know why the abandoned this? I assume it just didn't sell, but it sure struck me as a pretty good combination.

ejb190
Jan 8, 2003, 10:22 AM
I can believe that laptops are taking up the slack in sales. Personally, my main computers have always been notebooks. I don't move them around much, but love to have that option. Taking a 'puter on vacation or when I travel is not difficult and I have no worry about compatability issues of having a second computer. Once I get things working, I usually don't do a lot of upgrading, so that's not an issue. Besides, USB and Firewire offer enough expandability options for what I do.

I have held off of a new computer because I need the power of a G4, on an iBook budget.

But now I have a really tough choice - 12" Powerbook or hold out for iMac upgrades... Depends a bit on pricing. A superdrive would be really nice...

SwitchHitter
Jan 8, 2003, 12:47 PM
Seems like we're all talking in the same vein here.

I'm a PC user, using a Toshiba Portege 3480CT, provided by work. It's a great mini-laptop (and I love it for work and home use). In fact, I prefer a very integrated keyboard with either a touchpad or 'knob' in the keyboard vs. a mouse. Creates less stress on my shoulder and also I don't have as much hand movement.

Anyway, back to the imac. I definitely don't want to buy the existing 17" imac, if I know that a new one is going to come out anytime in the next 2-3 months. I can wait - but I won't stand for buying the existing imac and have it outmoded so quickly.

Seems that the consensus is that Apple will release an updated imac sometime in January.. I hope so... but again, I've been waiting two months already and expected to have ordered it as of yesterday.... I can wait a tad longer... but at some point I'll give up and stay a PC user (if Apple doesn't release it).

I do agree the pricing is expensive, again, another reason why I want to make sure I'm getting something that isn't outdated in a few weeks (relatively at least).

BTW, my last desktop, which I don't use often, has lasted me almost 6 years - works ok for what I use it for (basic web publishing using FrontPage by MS). Though once I switch to mac, i'll be looking for web design program that's easy to use, similar to FrontPage, inexpensive, etc. any ideas there???

IngoB
Jan 8, 2003, 06:13 PM
Originally posted by skywalker
I don't know why you think this wasn't a huge keynote. They pretty much just gave Microsoft a kick in the pants, and a pretty hard one at that, with Keynote and Safari, and then tantalized them with iLife so that everyone using Microsoft will be able to see what they're missing. And they kicked butt over all the other competitors in the laptop field with the biggest and smallest laptops ever.

That seems to be a hard one for Macheads to understand. :rolleyes: Apple isn't kicking Microsoft at all with their stuff. Simply because Apple software is only available for a tiny minority of the computers out there. Apple is selling a hardware+software package . There is exactly two ways in which Apple could seriously hurt Microsoft: (1) Make OS X and its apps available for PCs. That would effectively kill Apple's hardware business and they would become a pure software company. It is not entirely impossible that they could win a software war, once they have a complete Office lineup. (2) Make enough PC users switch to Mac to make a big dent in Microsoft sales. We are talking 30% market share or something of that order. That will only happen if the Apple package , including the hardware, becomes much more attractive. The prices on the hardware would need to drop and the performance would have to go up considerably. Is that going to happen?

Also, please face it: the new laptops are essentially technology that has been around for some time. Yeah, they've got some fancy new connectivity - solutions looking for a problem, really. But the main computing power is the same old G4 setup, which just happens to be less outdated in the laptop world than in the desktop world.

As far as I can see, there were only two major tech innovations announced by Apple - a backlit keyboard on the large laptop and an iPod ski jacket. Excuse me for not being overly excited... ;)

Wren
Jan 8, 2003, 06:29 PM
HmmmmOriginally posted by IngoB


That seems to be a hard one for Macheads to understand. :rolleyes: Apple isn't kicking Microsoft at all with their stuff. Simply because Apple software is only available for a tiny minority of the computers out there. Apple is selling a hardware+software package . There is exactly two ways in which Apple could seriously hurt Microsoft: (1) Make OS X and its apps available for PCs. That would effectively kill Apple's hardware business and they would become a pure software company. It is not entirely impossible that they could win a software war, once they have a complete Office lineup. (2) Make enough PC users switch to Mac to make a big dent in Microsoft sales. We are talking 30% market share or something of that order. That will only happen if the Apple package , including the hardware,
becomes much more attractive. The prices on the hardware would need to drop and the performance would have to go up considerably. Is that going to happen?

Also, please face it: the new laptops are essentially technology that has been around for some time. Yeah, they've got some fancy new connectivity - solutions looking for a problem, really. But the main computing power is the same old G4 setup, which just happens to be less outdated in the laptop world than in the desktop world.

As far as I can see, there were only two major tech innovations announced by Apple - a backlit keyboard on the large laptop and an iPod ski jacket. Excuse me for not being overly excited... ;)


:rolleyes:Hmmmmmmm... I wouldn't know. I've never layed my hands on a PC ever. What have I been missing? Do tell!!!!!

MasterX (OSiX)
Jan 8, 2003, 08:27 PM
Funny thing is the ONLY reason why mac users care about getting market share is that if Apple is doing all this with only 4.5% of the market, what happens when they have 5x more money? Ooooh, aaaaah.

My dad has a 17" iMac. It's amazing. The first computer we've owned which was truly worthy of OSX. My $3800 PowerMacG4 500Mhz is good, but there's a smoothness I lack. My next mac will be a G5. My last mac was a G3. Funny how it works that way.

Apple is less concerned about their hardware than you think. They have a lot of money to spend. Apple is in a pause right now, Moto is dying and Apple wasn't prepaired to go with it, IBM is cooking up something which will put Apple back in the lead of hardware (which I'd like to note they had for a decade PRIOR to this one. People forget so easily.) Yes I can't wait for me to look back on these last 3 years and remember when, for a brief time, Apple's slowest mac wasn't faster than the best PC. The good old days will be back. If you don't switch now it's ok, but sooner or later Apple will have the hardware crown back on their side, but THIS TIME they'll have the SOFTWARE to back it (now you see the strategy. aaaaaaah)

PS: For you near-switchers, Safari is amazing, and is by far the best browser i've used on any platform, which includes my friend's 1Ghz AMD with IE6 and XP. Even the scrolling is smooth, I can't imagine how nice it is on a new Dual CPU PowerMac or a 17" Powerbook.

MasterX (OSiX)
Jan 8, 2003, 08:28 PM
"I was gonna get a PC, then they made Playstation2. Awww, so close there MS"

possible switch
Jan 8, 2003, 09:34 PM
I, too, want to switch from the horrid PC world to the Mac world. I was going to buy a 15 inch 700 Mhz CD-RW iMac with 384 MB of RAM, but then I found out about the MWSF and thought updates might come. I waited, and nothing happened. Now there's speculation that they'll update January 25 or something. I'm a college student that mainly wants to get away from crashing, losing papers, blue screens, and other problems. Would the system I described last me more than the two years that my laptop has lasted me, or should I wait a few more weeks to see what happens? I really don't want to buy a system just to have it updated in a week or two. However, I don't want to wait 3 more months either. I'm not familiar with how often Apple upgrades its products or anything. Does anyone have any advice?

orthodoc
Jan 8, 2003, 09:50 PM
Absolutely wait. The imac processors have not been upgraded in over a year now, so they are overdue. I feel very strongly that they will be updated in the next few weeks. Hang in there and you'll love the world of macs! :)

iGod
Jan 8, 2003, 10:06 PM
Originally posted by IngoB
The only way in which a laptop could replace a desktop for me is by buying one of those laptop stands which will bring it to eye level plus a full keyboard plus a mouse. Add that to the already steep price tag and you can pretty much forget about it in comparison to a desktop. Is anybody here seriously working (or playing...) on a laptop for hours except on the road?

I bought my now dinosaur-like PD800 in late August last year because I was travelling...and now that I'm at home, I still use it ALL the time. My G4 desktop is sitting idle in the other room, while I roam the house (bed, to couch, to dining table) with my TiBook and wireless connection. I just like the feel of the keyboard better and the convenient portability of it all! If you have neck and hand strain with your laptop, do try the RoadTools Podium CoolPad - it makes a HUGE difference and gives your laptop the feel of something more 'desky'.;)

irmongoose
Jan 9, 2003, 01:55 AM
Originally posted by IngoB


That seems to be a hard one for Macheads to understand. :rolleyes: Apple isn't kicking Microsoft at all with their stuff. Simply because Apple software is only available for a tiny minority of the computers out there. Apple is selling a hardware+software package . ;)


I'm sorry but you seem to be missing the point, too. Apple is kicking Microsoft's butt, but not outta PCs... out of the Mac community. Right now, Apple is in a state where they are depended all on Microsoft to bring compatibility with the PC world, and that's the last place Steve wants to be in (despite how "excited" he sounded at the Macworlds about Office X). And the two key apps are Office and IE. Sure, Appleworks can read Word docuements and whatever, but frankly it sucks compared to Office. If Apple provided something better and with full compatibility with Office, who wouldn't choose it? Now with Keynote, which is undoubtly much better than Powerpoint, we can make better slideshows, and if we need to use it with a Windoze machine, we can export to Powerpoint format, too (but without all the features). And IE... Apple has clearly made a better product, surpassing even Chimera (which is a hundered times better itself) at some parts.

It's risky to do something like this, as Microsoft might stop any compatibility with Macs, but it is a necessary step in order for Apple to survive.




irmongoose

IngoB
Jan 9, 2003, 09:19 PM
Originally posted by irmongoose
I'm sorry but you seem to be missing the point, too. Apple is kicking Microsoft's butt, but not outta PCs... out of the Mac community.

Hey, I appreciate that. Good on Apple. But - does it actually hurt Microsoft? Nope, not really. Because even if Apple managed to replace every Microsoft program on the Mac by their own products, Microsoft at most be losing 5% of the total market - because that is Apple's share of it. Currently I don't see Apple even coming close to that, though. There's still that "Office Party" promotion going on, which suggests that it will be a long time before Apple is giving Microsoft the final boot.

Apple is trying to make people switch , remember? Well, my original point was that Apple needs to improve the attractivity of their hardware+software packages, improving the software alone won't cut it.

So, let me ask again - what are we going to see as improvements on the iMac and when? Just a minor speedbump? Or will there be more?

moby1
Jan 9, 2003, 10:15 PM
It would seem to make sense that the next iMac revision might include a wide angle 15.2" screen besides the 17".

Since the new 17" PB uses the screen from the 17" iMac, it looks like Apple is cutting costs by using components in multiple devices.

They probably get discounts based on volume and the LCD is the most expensive part of the computer.

I think there'd be a market for 15.2" Studio Displays as well. Maybe the next display line up will be 15.2, 17, (22), 23?

Also, the next iMacs are rumored to have slot-loading media drives - same as the PowerBooks. I bet we'll see a lot of this multi-use of components this year...makes sense (and dollars).

moby1

brian0526
Jan 10, 2003, 06:00 AM
I keep hearing Apple uses slot loading media drives in some of their machines and (for lack of a better word) non-slot loading drives in other. What's a slot loading drive?

Thanks,
Brian

irmongoose
Jan 10, 2003, 06:17 AM
Originally posted by brian0526
I keep hearing Apple uses slot loading media drives in some of their machines and (for lack of a better word) non-slot loading drives in other. What's a slot loading drive?

Thanks,
Brian

In slot-loading drives there are no CD trays. You just put in the CD in the little slit and it goes in automatically.

Slot Loading:
http://a772.g.akamai.net/7/772/51/8710b25e7cd652/www.apple.com/powerbook/images/index15superdrive01072003.gif



Non-slot loading (CD tray):
http://a1648.g.akamai.net/7/1648/51/1095ed953c1270/www.apple.com/imac/images/superdrive_top07112002.jpg

benixau
Jan 10, 2003, 06:23 AM
Originally posted by IngoB

Hey, I appreciate that. Good on Apple. But - does it actually hurt Microsoft? Nope, not really. Because even if Apple managed to replace every Microsoft program on the Mac by their own products, Microsoft at most be losing 5% of the total market - because that is Apple's share of it. Currently I don't see Apple even coming close to that, though. There's still that "Office Party" promotion going on, which suggests that it will be a long time before Apple is giving Microsoft the final boot.

Actually, independent figures show that mac users amke up 50% off software sales. The thing is that it is a) harder for us to get pirated software b) there is less crap stuff c)we are therefor more willing to pay for the good stuff.

ms needs apple. think of thier revenue if we stopped purchasing their software. btw that includes purchases of windows and licences :D

pianojoe
Jan 10, 2003, 06:43 AM
Originally posted by IngoB


- does it actually hurt Microsoft? Nope, not really. Because even if Apple managed to replace every Microsoft program on the Mac by their own products, Microsoft at most be losing 5% of the total market - because that is Apple's share of it.



Hey, Office for Mac is the 3rd most successful MS product (in revenues) ever, and they make much more revenue out of it, because 1) it's more expensive than the Wintel version, and 2) because it doesn't come bundled usually.

Then, many times more than 5% of all WWW content is created on a Mac, so lowering IE's dominance for "WWW compatibility" is not so bad after all. Especially, if Safari proves to be better. Seen only one website so far it couldn't handle, and some out-dated certificate thing.

I'd still like to see my friend who runs a print shop appear on an Apple commercial:

I've never reinstalled my system. I've been into Macs since '87, and I've never reinstalled my system. Sure, put on some upgrades, which took virtually no time. But complete reinstall? I'm sorry? Heaven, I gotta WORK.

scifi451
Jan 10, 2003, 02:40 PM
Originally posted by iGod


I bought my now dinosaur-like PD800 in late August last year because I was travelling...and now that I'm at home, I still use it ALL the time. My G4 desktop is sitting idle in the other room, while I roam the house (bed, to couch, to dining table) with my TiBook and wireless connection. I just like the feel of the keyboard better and the convenient portability of it all! If you have neck and hand strain with your laptop, do try the RoadTools Podium CoolPad - it makes a HUGE difference and gives your laptop the feel of something more 'desky'.;)

Where can I find out more about RoadTools Podium CoolPad? I use my laptop alot and I might interested in that. Thanks. :)

JSRockit
Jan 11, 2003, 12:07 PM
Originally posted by Wren
Hmmmm


:rolleyes:Hmmmmmmm... I wouldn't know. I've never layed my hands on a PC ever. What have I been missing? Do tell!!!!!

I'll tell you mister...you've been missing the experience of using laptops that aren't meant to be used anywhere but home. 1 hour battery life etc. The PC world is stuck on 8-10lb desktop replacements that are meant to be plugged in... at least Apple's desktop replacement will most likely get 2 hours of battery life. If you think that a 1Ghz pBook isn't powerful simply because it says 1Ghz...that is silly. When it comes to high end laptops that are meant to be used as portables...Apple has excellent choices...even hardcore PC reviewers love the pBook.

3777
Jan 11, 2003, 12:59 PM
I was a staunch desktop user for a long ime, then last year I got a refurbed comcrap for 600 bucks....... just to see how much I'd use a laptop before i actually comitted to a good one for 2000+ dollars. Well, it's now one year later and I have to say I use: ........ My Alienware Desktop PC for gaming (20% of my computer time) ........iMac DV just to keep it up to date and try out OSX software (10% of my computer time), .......and for everything else (about 70% of the time) I'm on my laptop. Unfortunatly the comcrap's wireless pci slot is now bad, and other things are going.....as I expected with comcrap......so I will probably have to upgrade soon. 12" G4 book looks great to me...... :D

benixau
Jan 11, 2003, 01:01 PM
Originally posted by Wren
Hmmmm


:rolleyes:Hmmmmmmm... I wouldn't know. I've never layed my hands on a PC ever. What have I been missing? Do tell!!!!!

you have been missing the following:

frustration
microsoft IE no matter what :'(
frustration
configuration period
frustration
low battery life
frustration
the dell logo
and did i mention frustration?

you get the idea. if you never use a pc all you really miss out on is CounterStrike. thats all.

irmongoose
Jan 12, 2003, 07:49 AM
Originally posted by benixau


you have been missing the following:

frustration
microsoft IE no matter what :'(
frustration
configuration period
frustration
low battery life
frustration
the dell logo
and did i mention frustration?

you get the idea. if you never use a pc all you really miss out on is CounterStrike. thats all.

Thank you! At last someone who understands me! :D :D



irmongoose

thies
Jan 12, 2003, 08:57 AM
Jesus, I haven't posted here in ages and nothing has changed. You don't like the current offerings by Apple? then don't buy one! You want to know exactly when a G5 for 999$ is going to be released because in your opinion the current lineup is crap? well, noone knows!
Either a Mac does what you want and you are ok with the price or you better stick with what you have.
*whine whine whine* yes, G4s are slower than P4s. But I can't say I max out this P4 2GHz usually. If you do, fine. I don't. My gripe lately has been the sluggish Finder among other things and it not even having an optional tree view. the GHz shouldn't matter for things like those, it's just bad programming. Sold my G4 466 half a year ago due to the OS behaving like crap or maybe I tried to use it faster than mere mortals do, who knows. I'll look at the PB12" when they are in stores and might switch back from FreeBSD to OSX if the OS is up to speed by then.
Any ideas about Finder replacements and an app that implements multiple workspaces the unix way in os x (if anyone suggests space.app he will be beaten to death with a wet noodle)?

mymemory
Jan 12, 2003, 10:13 AM
My main computer is a Pismo, I have a secund one that I do not use that much and I have a Dual 500 tower that I use because it has 2 hard drives in it.

I can run very well with my two Pismos, I do not need desk tops specially because I want to run everything via Firewire.

Desktops are for people with Avid systems or the expensive Protools, just because they use PCI cards. That is it.

In my case I do not need PCI any more and the computers are getting so fast that they can do right now most of the job donde by a PCI card 3 years ago. So, no need.

The rest could be peripherals. Of course we may expect the evolution of the laptop as the main computer, we are not there ergonomically but we do in power.