Umm Macbook Pro... Same old design?

[MacTruck]

The macbook pro really should have had a new design. Keeping the look of the old tired G4 was NOT a good idea.

Badass specs on the macbook pro though.

[jmsait19]

The macbook pro really should have had a new design. Keeping the look of the old tired G4 was NOT a good idea.

Badass specs on the macbook pro though.

I agree... I was totally hoping for a great new design, or at least something thinner. Its an entirely different beast from the PowerBooks, so needs an entirely different look.

[adk]

I agree... I was totally hoping for a great new design, or at least something thinner. Its an entirely different beast from the PowerBooks, so needs an entirely different look.


What's entirely different about it besides the dual core?

[MacTruck]

What's entirely different about it besides the dual core?

Let's see:

- Brighter screen
- Different Resolution
- Camera
- PCI express slot
- PCI Express graphics
- New graphics card
- Different ram
- DIfferent front side bus
- Different OS
- Different latch
- Different Hard Drives SATA
- Infrared Sensor and remote


Same case design.

That said. Anyone want to buy my powerbook? Its for sale.

[ericssonboi]

That said. Anyone want to buy my powerbook? Its for sale.

Anyone wanna buy mine too?

[MacTruck]

It needs a new design. Here is what I would like to see.


- Removable hard drives. With this intel cpu I can install xp on a seperate hard drive and swap them when I need to. I must have I think.

- Removable Superdrive. Let me have accessories like another battery, another hard drive or the option to upgrade my superdrive later.

- A FREAKING DOCK CONNECTOR!

- Something more rugged than this cheap aluminum that bends if you look at it wrong.

- A TWO BUTTON TOUCHPAD PLEASE!

- A power button on the outside of the case so I can power it on when hooked up to a monitor without having to open the damn lid.

- Dual DVI ports so I can use 2 monitors. The video card supports it so why not?



Am I wrong folks?

[MrSugar]

It needs a new design. Here is what I would like to see.


- Removable hard drives. With this intel cpu I can install xp on a seperate hard drive and swap them when I need to. I must have I think.

- Removable Superdrive. Let me have accessories like another battery, another hard drive or the option to upgrade my superdrive later.

- A FREAKING DOCK CONNECTOR!

- Something more rugged than this cheap aluminum that bends if you look at it wrong.

- A TWO BUTTON TOUCHPAD PLEASE!

- A power button on the outside of the case so I can power it on when hooked up to a monitor without having to open the damn lid.

- Dual DVI ports so I can use 2 monitors. The video card supports it so why not?



Am I wrong folks?

All very valid points, well said.

[ozone]

Personally, I really like the look of the current PBs - very sleek, and I pretty much work exclusively on the PC side of things. I find Sony - which is probably the closest to Apple from the Windows side - to be, well, odd looking many times. Everything's great, except for one thing. A lot of the PC makers seem to have funny ideas of colour, design aesthetic, etc. Fujitsu, however, does put out some really cool looking smaller notebooks.

That being said, I agree with MacTruk... Apple could have done other things to increase the modularity of the MB Pro. My HP tablet allows me to easily swap out the hard drive, change the ram, connect to a dock, etc. And almost all of it is on the bottom anyways where you can't see the connections and tabs anyways.

If Apple wants to be a bit more business friendly, easier upgradability is key, especially since many PC users like me will not be restricted to Apple specific hardware anymore.

[Flowbee]

That being said, I agree with MacTruk... Apple could have done other things to increase the modularity of the MB Pro. My HP tablet allows me to easily swap out the hard drive, change the ram, connect to a dock, etc. And almost all of it is on the bottom anyways where you can't see the connections and tabs anyways.

Is it 1 inch thick?

[bousozoku]

Let's see:

- Brighter screen
- Different Resolution
- Camera
- PCI express slot
- PCI Express graphics
- New graphics card
- Different ram
- DIfferent front side bus
- Different OS
- Different latch
- Different Hard Drives SATA
- Infrared Sensor and remote


Same case design.

That said. Anyone want to buy my powerbook? Its for sale.

It's a similar case design, but not the same obviously. You can't exactly shove a bigger display into the same case.

I don't see the look as tired at all. It's quite good compared to all of the others out in the market place.

[Counterfit]

It needs a new design. Here is what I would like to see.


- Removable hard drives. With this intel cpu I can install xp on a seperate hard drive and swap them when I need to. I must have I think.

- Removable Superdrive. Let me have accessories like another battery, another hard drive or the option to upgrade my superdrive later.
Those all add weight and thickness.

- A FREAKING DOCK CONNECTOR!
http://www.bookendzdocks.com/

- Something more rugged than this cheap aluminum that bends if you look at it wrong.
"cheap aluminum" is an oxymoron. Also, it handles large drops better than polycarbonate or steel.
- A power button on the outside of the case so I can power it on when hooked up to a monitor without having to open the damn lid.
You should have the display open anyway to vent the heat.
- Dual DVI ports so I can use 2 monitors. The video card supports it so why not?
Probably because there'd be no place to put it.

[Applespider]

I'd have liked to see a mini-drawing tablet; or a stylus so you can use the current touchpad as a tablet. Would be great if you had to work on fine detail etc and didn't want to lug a big one around.

I don't mind that it's the same design. It does still look pretty good; I'm just concerned about the loss of a FW port. I know it daisychains but when I'm importing video from the camcorder to an external drive, it's much easier to have the camcorder on the FW400 port and the hard drive on the FW800 one.

[emaja]

It needs a new design. Here is what I would like to see.


- Removable hard drives. With this intel cpu I can install xp on a seperate hard drive and swap them when I need to. I must have I think.

- Removable Superdrive. Let me have accessories like another battery, another hard drive or the option to upgrade my superdrive later.

- A FREAKING DOCK CONNECTOR!

- Something more rugged than this cheap aluminum that bends if you look at it wrong.

- A TWO BUTTON TOUCHPAD PLEASE!

- A power button on the outside of the case so I can power it on when hooked up to a monitor without having to open the damn lid.

- Dual DVI ports so I can use 2 monitors. The video card supports it so why not?



Am I wrong folks?

You guys finally get your PB updates, it is not even shipping yet, and you already have a list of complaints about what it does not have.

I guess I should have expected that...

[BearRanger]

There's a lot to like about the new MacBook Pro. But it seems like it's a transitional product. For the first Intel laptop it looks pretty darned good to me. It's not everything I'd like, but it's more than good enough.

There's no proof yet, but if Apple did just use an Intel motherboard this is perhaps the best that could be expected. That probably also explains the lack of Firewire 800, as others have pointed out. Using an Intel motherboard allowed Apple to get to market at the same time as other laptop vendors.

What will we see if Apple has the time to design its own board around an Intel chipset? That's what I'm looking forward to seeing.

New MacBook Pro the first Tuesday in June.
:D

[dotdotdot]

The new MacBook Pro looks like the PowerBook G4 but its the little things that mean they changed it.

First, it is thinner than the G4. Which makes it look better.

Second, it has an IR reciever and iSight, along with bigger screen and new power adapter, as well as different interior and better specs.

[Marky_Mark]

"cheap aluminum" is an oxymoron. Also, it handles large drops better than polycarbonate or steel.

Eh? Powerbooks bend and dent, iBooks bounce harmlessly. ;)

[Malfoy]

How much you 2 sellers looking to get for your powerbooks? (This is a feeler post)

And a new case would have only been cool had it been black or carbon fiber. With that said, I'm glad they kept the same case, but wish they had another mouse button.

[-Escher-]

Why they are so stubborn and keep with this single button mouse!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Why not 3 or 4?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

[GimmeSlack12]

Am I the only one that thinks the case looks darker? Looking at pictures of the MacBook on the AppleStore gives the view in a lighter area than the apple.com pictures.

It definitely looks darker than the PowerBook.

[jono_3]

i think the g4 pb design is excellent. but who knows - maybe the mbp is the ibook replacement and we still have another pb replacement to go.:rolleyes:

[Spectrum]

The problem is not that there isn't a second (or third, or fourth) mouse button, but the fact that even OSX requires a second (or third, or fourth) button for some actions.

IMO, it's the OS that needs streamlining, not the computer that needs "enhancing".

Why they are so stubborn and keep with this single button mouse!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Why not 3 or 4?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

[Str8edgepunker]

Why they are so stubborn and keep with this single button mouse!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Why not 3 or 4?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Umm....

http://www.apple.com/mightymouse/

Anyway, I'm happy that they kept the same design of the Macbook Pro. I mean there are tons of changes under the hood such that people might get scared if it looks completely different than before.

[-Escher-]

Umm....

http://www.apple.com/mightymouse/

Anyway, I'm happy that they kept the same design of the Macbook Pro. I mean there are tons of changes under the hood such that people might get scared if it looks completely different than before.

Mousepad...would be great to see it as a MOUSEPAD!
And besides: I though they would be releasing a wireless mighty mouse at MWSF!!! I can't imagine miself using even a desktop with a wired mouse!!

[Mechcozmo]

I don't mind that it's the same design. It does still look pretty good; I'm just concerned about the loss of a FW port. I know it daisychains but when I'm importing video from the camcorder to an external drive, it's much easier to have the camcorder on the FW400 port and the hard drive on the FW800 one.

I agree on everything you say. I'd like to have seen a FW800 port remain... or at least replace it with a FW400 port!

Why they are so stubborn and keep with this single button mouse!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Why not 3 or 4?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Those don't fit on laptops. And it is Apple philosophy. And iScroll 2 kicksass.

The problem is not that there isn't a second (or third, or fourth) mouse button, but the fact that even OSX requires a second (or third, or fourth) button for some actions.

IMO, it's the OS that needs streamlining, not the computer that needs "enhancing".
What does OS X require a second mouse button for? I've never needed to use one... and Apple's interface guidelines state that everything should be accessible to one button ONLY.

[emaja]

Apple's interface guidelines state that everything should be accessible to one button ONLY.

And Apple always strictly follows its own guidelines, right? The general GUI is rife with examples of Apple bending its own rules.

[maya]

I'd have liked to see a mini-drawing tablet; or a stylus so you can use the current touchpad as a tablet. Would be great if you had to work on fine detail etc and didn't want to lug a big one around.

I don't mind that it's the same design. It does still look pretty good; I'm just concerned about the loss of a FW port. I know it daisychains but when I'm importing video from the camcorder to an external drive, it's much easier to have the camcorder on the FW400 port and the hard drive on the FW800 one.


I believe incorporating a tablet into the trackpad would be a terrible idea, as people would only use it to try it out and after that they would not even bother. Reason being it is too small to do anything productive with it. Having a Touch Screen is another venue for Apple to expand on. :)

Most external HDD have 2 FW ports, so I see this less of a problem. The whole point is that Apple is trying to make the MacBook minimal, clean, and effective. Can you honestly tell me that you are always rooming around with 2 FW devices or using them both in a mobile situation. Most external HDD do not even draw power from the FW port on any Mac, they have they own PSU. Only mobile HDD draw they power from notebooks and most come with another FW connector. :)

Plus Apple is trying to boost they profit margin. ;)

[Phat_Pat]

its thin its looks sexy


and it says Macbook Pro where it used to say Powerbook G4

and frontrow runs smooth as butta on this thing


even faster than my G5:eek:

[2nyRiggz]

what was wrong with the powerbook design? nothing...if it aint broke dont fix it...the design still looks cool


Bless

[MacTruck]

I can't believe some of the replies on this topic. Are you guys nuts?

First of all,

Counterfit, you don't know what you are talking about at all. Removable drives don't add weight and thickness. I have a Thinkpad T42p with all those options and guess what? Its as light as the powerbook and exactly 1" thick. Bookendzdocks is NOT a dock. Its a bunch of ports that you jam into your powerbook all at once. A dock connector is for docks period. Again, Thinkpad T42p has one. Aluminum handles drops better than steel? Again you are nuts. You should NOT have the display open to vent. Thats a defect as far as I am concerned. No place to put 2 dvi ports? Again, you are nuts.


Mechcozmo, 3 button mouse doesn't fit on laptops? I guess if you tried to cram a MOUSE into a laptop you are right, but a 4 button trackpad would fit just fine. AGAIN my T42p has not only a Trackpad with 3 buttons but also a pointer stick in the middle of the keyboard.

Great update on the macbook, just wish these little things were done to it. Its entirely possible, as IBM did it with the Thinkpad and tons of other laptop makers have done it as well. The THinkpad is the best laptop out there period but it runs Windows which bites it. Maybe there will be a hack for OSX intel so I can put it on the thinkpad. Best of both worlds.

And why is the macbook only up to 1.83ghz? That sucks. Should be 2ghz top of the line. Sorry folks but its true.

[xyian]

Even though I think the PB was the sexiest design ever, I think this was the key time to switch over to a new design and maybe lure in some windows users with a new look. I think a lot of windows users might still link the look to the old macs, which they already deem as incompatible as hell even though it's the windows file system that's incompatible with everything else!

[mustard]

I can't believe some of the replies on this topic. Are you guys nuts?

First of all,

Counterfit, you don't know what you are talking about at all. Removable drives don't add weight and thickness. I have a Thinkpad T42p with all those options and guess what? Its as light as the powerbook and exactly 1" thick. Bookendzdocks is NOT a dock. Its a bunch of ports that you jam into your powerbook all at once. A dock connector is for docks period. Again, Thinkpad T42p has one. Aluminum handles drops better than steel? Again you are nuts. You should NOT have the display open to vent. Thats a defect as far as I am concerned. No place to put 2 dvi ports? Again, you are nuts.


Mechcozmo, 3 button mouse doesn't fit on laptops? I guess if you tried to cram a MOUSE into a laptop you are right, but a 4 button trackpad would fit just fine. AGAIN my T42p has not only a Trackpad with 3 buttons but also a pointer stick in the middle of the keyboard.

Great update on the macbook, just wish these little things were done to it. Its entirely possible, as IBM did it with the Thinkpad and tons of other laptop makers have done it as well. The THinkpad is the best laptop out there period but it runs Windows which bites it. Maybe there will be a hack for OSX intel so I can put it on the thinkpad. Best of both worlds.

And why is the macbook only up to 1.83ghz? That sucks. Should be 2ghz top of the line. Sorry folks but its true.

First off removable drives due ad weight, take out your harddirve, cdrom, exc. then remove the unecessary screws, plastic casing, and additional cabeling then weight your ladptop with just the bear drives.
That stuff does add weight even if it si not signigfigant, it could be lighter.
Also regarding weight to volume what exactly are the dimensions of your ThinkPad H/W/D.

Regarding a dock it is just something else that has little or no real value for the majority of users as well as adding to cost and potential problems.

Also what is a 3 or four button mouse going to accomplish that a single mouse button and 78 keys on the standard keyboard, I will tell you nothing other than coffusion.

Also I don't think there are any laptop manufactures producing a 2.0GHz Duo Core Laptop at any level let alone the size, and weight of the macBook.

I am not trying to get on you but it seems as if you have already scourned the macBooks, so it sounds as if your next laptop will be a ... IBM/Leveno.

[-Escher-]

Also what is a 3 or four button mouse going to accomplish that a single mouse button and 78 keys on the standard keyboard, I will tell you nothing other than coffusion.


Believe me: it makes sense and everyone smarter than an oyster would not be conffused at all! They've been stubborn not adding at least one more button....Mac lovers just think it is better with only one and haven't even tryied a double button touchpad...humpf....You can do magic with an extra button!

[MacTruck]

First off removable drives due ad weight, take out your harddirve, cdrom, exc. then remove the unecessary screws, plastic casing, and additional cabeling then weight your ladptop with just the bear drives.
That stuff does add weight even if it si not signigfigant, it could be lighter.
Also regarding weight to volume what exactly are the dimensions of your ThinkPad H/W/D.

Regarding a dock it is just something else that has little or no real value for the majority of users as well as adding to cost and potential problems.

Also what is a 3 or four button mouse going to accomplish that a single mouse button and 78 keys on the standard keyboard, I will tell you nothing other than coffusion.

Also I don't think there are any laptop manufactures producing a 2.0GHz Duo Core Laptop at any level let alone the size, and weight of the macBook.

I am not trying to get on you but it seems as if you have already scourned the macBooks, so it sounds as if your next laptop will be a ... IBM/Leveno.


Dude, blindly following anyone or anything will get you in big trouble. Just look at the Nazis. :eek:

[mustard]

Believe me: it makes sense and everyone smarter than an oyster would not be conffused at all! They've been stubborn not adding at least one more button....Mac lovers just think it is better with only one and haven't even tryied a double button touchpad...humpf....You can do magic with an extra button!

I am not saying that 2 buttons wouldn't be welcomed by a majority of users (including myslef), but what is more than 2 going to accomplish - for most people nothing or confusion.

[MacTruck]

I am not saying that 2 buttons wouldn't be welcomed by a majority of users (including myslef), but what is more than 2 going to accomplish - for most people nothing or confusion.


Confusion? I think you are confused here. Every computer in the world has at least 2 buttons on the mouse or notebook and I never EVER heard a single person say "WHAT THE HELL IS THIS BUTTON FOR?" and that includes old ladies.

OK I take it back, my 2 yr old didn't know what it was for, but then again he ain't gonna be using a $2500 macbook either the mac mini is all he is getting for a while.

[law guy]

Confusion? I think you are confused here. Every computer in the world has at least 2 buttons on the mouse or notebook and I never EVER heard a single person say "WHAT THE HELL IS THIS BUTTON FOR?" and that includes old ladies.

OK I take it back, my 2 yr old didn't know what it was for, but then again he ain't gonna be using a $2500 macbook either the mac mini is all he is getting for a while.

My ThinkPad has three buttons around the "ultranav" trackpad. That third button on top is the tipping point for the non-technical (those that didn't read the quick start guide).

[mustard]

Dude, blindly following anyone or anything will get you in big trouble. Just look at the Nazis. :eek:

Feel free to elaborate on the Nazi comment - I was simply trying to point out that there were false statements in MacTruck's post. I am not trying to beat an idea/opinion into any one, I was just trying to correct/play devil's advocate.

Correct me if I put my foot in my mouth, but what is not true:
- removable drives add weight (even if just a little bit due to additional non-necessary stuff)
- dock conectors are hit or miss depending on the user (from my personal experince with customers maybe 1 of 200 purchase an additional docking station let alone use it)
- 3 to 4 buttons are generally not necessary other than for obscure software specific needs (I never said two was bad)
- No other manufacturer has a 2.0 Duo Core for sale or even announced

- As far as the IBM/Leveno comment - maybe not called for, but just a personal opinion formed by MacTruck's post.

Nazi's (?)

[applemacdude]

You should NOT have the display open to vent.


the vents are in the rear now so it shouldnt be a prob

[portent]

It needs a new design. Here is what I would like to see.


- Removable hard drives. With this intel cpu I can install xp on a seperate hard drive and swap them when I need to. I must have I think.

- Removable Superdrive. Let me have accessories like another battery, another hard drive or the option to upgrade my superdrive later.

- A FREAKING DOCK CONNECTOR!

- Something more rugged than this cheap aluminum that bends if you look at it wrong.

- A TWO BUTTON TOUCHPAD PLEASE!

- A power button on the outside of the case so I can power it on when hooked up to a monitor without having to open the damn lid.

- Dual DVI ports so I can use 2 monitors. The video card supports it so why not?

Am I wrong folks?

A split Trackpad would be nice.

Removable Hard and Optical drives mean thicker cases (since the drives have to have their own shells to protect them when they're out of the 'Book, they take up more space inside the 'Book.) and latch mechanisms which break.

A dock connector would take up space on the outside of the case, and there isn't any. You basically have to choose between a docking system, and a full array of ports on the computer itself.

The card supports dual displays, but one of those is the internal LCD. You'd need triple display support to drive a second external display.

External buttons have a way of getting pushed when the system is in the bag. I'm sure glad my laptop doesn't power up every time I pick up the case.

[law guy]

- No other manufacturer has a 2.0 Duo Core for sale or even announced


A note on one item: 2.0 GHz Duo laptop reviewed on pcmag.com - http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,1907007,00.asp

[MacTruck]

A split Trackpad would be nice.

Yes it would.

Removable Hard and Optical drives mean thicker cases (since the drives have to have their own shells to protect them when they're out of the 'Book, they take up more space inside the 'Book.) and latch mechanisms which break.[/QUOTE]

Ok so how do all those 1" thick notebook makers do it then?

A dock connector would take up space on the outside of the case, and there isn't any. You basically have to choose between a docking system, and a full array of ports on the computer itself.

Wrong. My thinkpad dock connector takes up ZERO space.

The card supports dual displays, but one of those is the internal LCD. You'd need triple display support to drive a second external display.

You might have me there but can't they make it so the laptop display turns off?

External buttons have a way of getting pushed when the system is in the bag. I'm sure glad my laptop doesn't power up every time I pick up the case.

Well I have seen it done nicely so you can't hit it by accident. IBM had a great switch but yes even they have put the stupid power button under the lid but they have a dock for it with a power switch so no worries.

If one more person says they can't make the drives removable without making the notebook thicker... well I call you dumb. :D

[ozone]

Originally Posted by ozone:
That being said, I agree with MacTruk... Apple could have done other things to increase the modularity of the MB Pro. My HP tablet allows me to easily swap out the hard drive, change the ram, connect to a dock, etc. And almost all of it is on the bottom anyways where you can't see the connections and tabs anyways.

Is it 1 inch thick?

[Response.] Pretty much. 12" notebook. Maybe 1.2" thick. Not super svelte like a Sony, but it's no clunker. I think increasing the modularity of a MB Pro would have increased the thickness marginally to allow for the interchangability. Keep in mind though that all things being equal, a greater "depth" in the chassis would allow for greater rigidity.

[MacTruck]

A note on one item: 2.0 GHz Duo laptop reviewed on pcmag.com - http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,1907007,00.asp


SLAM! Now thats a laptop. Thats what the macbook could have been. Now too get osx on it. hmmm.

[mustard]

A note on one item: 2.0 GHz Duo laptop reviewed on pcmag.com - http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,1907007,00.asp

I stand corrected. Nice machine - a little on the heavy side though 6.7lbs

[law guy]

No worries Mustard - here's another - these are new machines of course, so it would be easy to miss them:

Here's another 2.0 duo - http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,1907126,00.asp A little lighter than the first, but all the style of a mid-90s Toshiba. Aside from the 2.0 processor, other specs are down from the Acer noted above.

as I understand it both this HP and the Acer listed above are shipping

[mustard]

If one more person says they can't make the drives removable without making the notebook thicker... well I call you dumb. :D

Thicker no - but heavier, more expensive, more fragile yes

No worries Mustard - here's another - these are new machines of course, so it would be easy to miss them:

Here's another 2.0 duo - http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,1907126,00.asp A little lighter than the first, but all the style of a mid-90s Toshiba.

as I understand it both this HP and the Acer listed above are shipping

I knew they were in existance but didn't know of any that were available for sale - haven't checked since the first of the year. I am supprised that Acer & HP beat Dell to the ouch though (not that I am a fan of Dell) After seeing the HP that woudl have been the ideal macBook - great specks and .1lbs lighter

[MacTruck]

Thicker no - but heavier, more expensive, more fragile yes


no, no and no. Sorry. Why don't you just go look at the lenovo site and check out specs ok. LOL!

[ozone]

I'm with MacTruck on almost all points.

I use a HP TC4200 tablet and have two docks: one at home, one at work. The docks sit "permanently" on the desk and are hooked up to 19" Sony LCDs and full size Logitech keyboards. If you do work at both the office and home, docks are a god-send. BookEndz are only port replicators and pass throughs; docks add additional functionality, many more ports, power, etc. Plus they're hot dockable: just snap the laptop in and out when I want to go.

I doubt having removable batteries, hard-drives, etc. add significantly to the weight. The 15" ThinkPads come in at under 6 lbs and are tremendous laptops: not equal to Apple's in style, but definitely in terms of durability and productivity, if not better (too bad about the OS though!).

Sure, maybe only 1 dock would be sold for every 100 MB Pro's bought, but those that buy the dock, like me, tend to buy a lot more stuff too. If Apple had a "complete package" for me, I would have probably gone for that instead of the HP.

The other suggestion of a tablet is tremendous. A convertible tablet these days is old hat for most PC manufacturers and the ability to take handwritten notes electronically is a big advantage for the types of meetings I'm in.

... and that being said, I still love the way Apple notebooks look! You just can't dismiss the elegance they exude. Here's hoping that the forever anticipated 13.3" widescreen and revised 17" look ultra cool... :)

[ozone]

Thicker no - but heavier, more expensive, more fragile yes

Sorry mustard... wrong on those counts. IBM notebooks - if that's what you're talking about - have very high retention value in tough work environments. Corporations source them almost exclusively for their durability, performance, and lightweight. I've owned and used one and can speak from personal experience, not just reading reviews.

[mustard]

no, no and no. Sorry. Why don't you just go look at the lenovo site and check out specs ok. LOL!

If you have a link I will look into it. But how can you say:

-That by having extra plastic, screws and cable wouldn't add a little weight - opposed to no having the extra bits to make a drive removable

-That adding additional materials will not cut into the companys profit and/or add cost to the machine, there is more physical material needed as well as labor/overhead to produce and assemble

-That having a removable component doesn't increases potential slips, broken tabs/conectors, exc.

I see the advantage to some, but in general computers cost in one way or another. You either pay an arm and a leg for features, an arm and a leg for asthetics, very little for little options, very little for very cheap. If all tech companies could come together as non business competitors then, and probably only then would you have the ideal computer.

I don't see that happening any time soon though.

[mustard]

Sorry mustard... wrong on those counts. IBM notebooks - if that's what you're talking about - have very high retention value in tough work environments. Corporations source them almost exclusively for their durability, performance, and lightweight. I've owned and used one and can speak from personal experience, not just reading reviews.

I have worked in the computer industry (hardware assembly & repair) for a couple years now and have had no real problems with the durability of ThinkPads (with the exception of the power cord - I have soldered many).

The thing is that all things come at a premium be it cost, duribility, or quality of software. I am sure that Apple with enough money could incoporate any feature ever fathomed - but at what cost. The weight may not be the big deal for 99.9% of consumers or Apple for that matter but what affects that same 99.9% and Apple is the cost of incorperating said niceties (production, R&D, exc all help to add cost to the consumer or cut into Apple's margins)

[djbahdow01]

Umm do you really want it to look like every other PC/Windows laptop??? Removable stuff, Windows, etc.

Dual dvi output, and two button touch pad would be nice, but give it time, remember this is Rev A and Apple will make changes, again, you may not like them but they should be for the better.

It needs a new design. Here is what I would like to see.


- Removable hard drives. With this intel cpu I can install xp on a seperate hard drive and swap them when I need to. I must have I think.

- Removable Superdrive. Let me have accessories like another battery, another hard drive or the option to upgrade my superdrive later.

- A FREAKING DOCK CONNECTOR!

- Something more rugged than this cheap aluminum that bends if you look at it wrong.

- A TWO BUTTON TOUCHPAD PLEASE!

- A power button on the outside of the case so I can power it on when hooked up to a monitor without having to open the damn lid.

- Dual DVI ports so I can use 2 monitors. The video card supports it so why not?



Am I wrong folks?

[ozone]

I have worked in the computer industry (hardware assembly & repair) for a couple years now and have had no real problems with the durability of ThinkPads (with the exception of the power cord - I have soldered many).

The thing is that all things come at a premium be it cost, duribility, or quality of software. I am sure that Apple with enough money could incoporate any feature ever fathomed - but at what cost. The weight may not be the big deal for 99.9% of consumers or Apple for that matter but what affects that same 99.9% and Apple is the cost of incorperating said niceties (production, R&D, exc all help to add cost to the consumer or cut into Apple's margins)

Well, that is true: nothing comes without a price! I'm a little confused though at the situation you present. Some of the features that MacTruck want, such as a removable HDD or docking connectors, seem to be pretty standard features on numerous PC laptops. Given that Apple's moved to industry-standard components for many things, how would taking advantage of readily available technology add so significantly to the cost? I suppose that the redesign of the case and internal chassis would be a one (or two) time expenditure of resources, but surely once done, the template and process could then be streamlined and replicated for mass production.

It's just also strikes me as inane when you have to open up the literal guts of a current PB to change the HDD for example, when it's so readily accessible on so many other computers and quite a straight-forward, user serviceable activity.

[mustard]

Well, that is true: nothing comes without a price! I'm a little confused though at the situation you present. Some of the features that MacTruck want, such as a removable HDD or docking connectors, seem to be pretty standard features on numerous PC laptops. Given that Apple's moved to industry-standard components for many things, how would taking advantage of readily available technology add so significantly to the cost? I suppose that the redesign of the case and internal chassis would be a one (or two) time expenditure of resources, but surely once done, the template and process could then be streamlined and replicated for mass production.

It's just also strikes me as inane when you have to open up the literal guts of a current PB to change the HDD for example, when it's so readily accessible on so many other computers and quite a straight-forward, user serviceable activity.

R&D costs aside how adventageous is it to go with the norm, there are many "standard" features that are incorporated in both desktops and laptops on the Window/PC side of things - parallel, serial, & PS2 ports. They have been standardized for years on the PC side and even PC manuafaturers are slowly pulling away from the norm due to the mass consumers needs.

Just because the technology is available doesn't mean that it is relevant from a financial standpoint for a business - how many additional computers would Apple sell solely on the fact that it has removable drive bays and at what additional pre-sale cost to Apple?

I do agree with the difficulties experienced changing a HDD on a PowerBook - but how often is that necessary for the average user to attempt let alone repeatedly.

[MacTruck]

R&D costs aside how adventageous is it to go with the norm, there are many "standard" features that are incorporated in both desktops and laptops on the Window/PC side of things - parallel, serial, & PS2 ports. They have been standardized for years on the PC side and even PC manuafaturers are slowly pulling away from the norm due to the mass consumers needs.

Just because the technology is available doesn't mean that it is relevant from a financial standpoint for a business - how many additional computers would Apple sell solely on the fact that it has removable drive bays and at what additional pre-sale cost to Apple?

I do agree with the difficulties experienced changing a HDD on a PowerBook - but how often is that necessary for the average user to attempt let alone repeatedly.


OMFG! HOW DID THEY DO IT? How did they get all that stuff (removable stuff) into that notebook for that price? Its not possible. no no no no no.

YES!


IBM Thinkpad $1799
http://www-131.ibm.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=8797724&storeId=10000001&langId=-1&categoryId=2049168&dualCurrId=1000073&catalogId=-840


And that is not the cheapest one they sell. Get real mustard.

[mustard]

OMFG! HOW DID THEY DO IT? How did they get all that stuff (removable stuff) into that notebook for that price? Its not possible. no no no no no.

YES!


IBM Thinkpad $1799
http://www-131.ibm.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=8797724&storeId=10000001&langId=-1&categoryId=2049168&dualCurrId=1000073&catalogId=-840


And that is not the cheapest one they sell. Get real mustard.

Is it just me or have us Mac users not became accustom to the price differences between Apple computers and the beige box companies out there. Aesthetics aside the volume of business they are able to achieve is directly proportional to the price in which they can sell the machine. IBM has found a market that is screaming for docks and removable this and that but how big of a draw is it for a company that is not dealing with large corporations in regards to laptops. Apple has seen where removable drives is appropriate to a majority of there target audience and that is the xServe/xRaid line of systems that for a majority are marketed towards a totally different cliental than a PowerBook/macBook. Simply put look at the percentage breakdowns of who are buying the ThinkPads compared to who are buying the PowerMacs - Companies with needs and a few consumers VS consumers and companies with out those needs. If it was needed there would be more of an outcry for it from there users.

I think a poll should be formed to see the real need from PowerBook users and potential customers (no need, would like, have to have, wouldn't want, no opinion).

[law guy]

I am supprised that Acer & HP beat Dell to the ouch though (not that I am a fan of Dell) After seeing the HP that woudl have been the ideal macBook - great specks and .1lbs lighter

Dell's on board as well with the 2.0 GHz Duo option, here's the 17" config page: http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?cs=19&kc=ref&oc=ie1705s1

[puckhead193]

i think apple will re-design it, i think they just wanted to get the ban -wagon started...

[emaja]

OMFG! HOW DID THEY DO IT? How did they get all that stuff (removable stuff) into that notebook for that price? Its not possible. no no no no no.

YES!


IBM Thinkpad $1799
http://www-131.ibm.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=8797724&storeId=10000001&langId=-1&categoryId=2049168&dualCurrId=1000073&catalogId=-840


And that is not the cheapest one they sell. Get real mustard.

With a single core Centrino, 64MB VRAM, X300 GPU and slower FSB and RAM at that.

Apple costs more. So what?

[MacTruck]

With a single core Centrino, 64MB VRAM, X300 GPU and slower FSB and RAM at that.

Apple costs more. So what?


I knew someone would say that. Go check out the $2500 model then. :eek:

[BENJMNS]

Umm do you really want it to look like every other PC/Windows laptop???

well, apple took a huge step in that direction today did they not? and they need sales so it's gotta work well. consumers must buy in and i think they will.

let me say that i'm a fan of PC notebooks as well. Vista looks fantastic and i'm sure it'll perform very well in the consumer and enterprise space. that's my bet. XP look and feel is a bit long in the tooth.

as for the thinkpads.. i will say that i'd have more confidence in the durability/reliability of a new thinkpad than carrying around a new powerbook. the aluminum looks slick, but durable it is not. it's got its own set of flaws and i've gone thru several brand new 17" and 15" units recently. thinkpad is a nice looking, performing, solid enterprise machine.

[MacTruck]

as for the thinkpads.. i will say that i'd have more confidence in the durability/reliability of a new thinkpad than carrying around a new powerbook. the aluminum looks slick, but durable it is not. it's got its own set of flaws and i've gone thru several brand new 17" and 15" units recently. thinkpad is a nice looking, performing, solid enterprise machine.


Every PC laptop I have ever had has been a thinkpad and I have had about 10 of them now and I can tell you I have NEVER had a problem with a new thinkpad. Those things are solid as rocks (not the weight) and have 3yr warranties which is great.

[LethalWolfe]

no, no and no. Sorry. Why don't you just go look at the lenovo site and check out specs ok. LOL!

I looked at all the 15" T43 and T42 models (like the one you linked to) and they all weigh more than the MacBook if you have the optical drive installed. If you remove the optical drive from the IBM then some of them weigh less than the MacBook.


Lethal

[MacTruck]

I looked at all the 15" T43 and T42 models (like the one you linked to) and they all weigh more than the MacBook if you have the optical drive installed. If you remove the optical drive from the IBM then some of them weigh less than the MacBook.


Lethal


Yeah, that .3 ounces is the:

- fingerprint reader
- 1 Type I/II and 1 ExpressCard/54 or 34
- 56K V.92 designed modem
- Docking/Port Replicator
- Parallel Port
- S-video out port


:D

[LethalWolfe]

Yeah, that .3 ounces is the:

- fingerprint reader
- 1 Type I/II and 1 ExpressCard/54 or 34
- 56K V.92 designed modem
- Docking/Port Replicator
- Parallel Port
- S-video out port


:D

I couldn't find the T42p on the lenovo sight, but the T43 you linked to is 5.91lbs w/o optical drive. I'd say that's a tad more than .3 ounces than the 5.6lbs of the MacBook.
;)


Lethal

[MacTruck]

I couldn't find the T42p on the lenovo sight, but the T43 you linked to is 5.91lbs w/o optical drive. I'd say that's a tad more than .3 ounces than the 5.6lbs of the MacBook.
;)


Lethal

Oops .3lbs. Point still made.

[LethalWolfe]

Oops .3lbs. Point still made.
Point still made that the Thinkpads are heavier? I agree. ;)
That finger print reader looks cool though. Is it actually useful or just kinda like a novelty?


Lethal

[MacTruck]

Point still made that the Thinkpads are heavier? I agree. ;)
That finger print reader looks cool though. Is it actually useful or just kinda like a novelty?


Lethal

Yeah it is very useful and the unit weighs exactly .3lbs.
:p

[Leareth]

Hmm
Mactruck you seem to find the Thinkpad to be the best computer so why don't you use it then instead of complaining the the new apple laptop is not like it.
Apple looks at what the majority of consumers want and need in their computers not the needs or wants of a few.

I can replace my battery easily in fact I carry a spare in my backpack with out turning my PB off.
And my hard drive was not that hard to replace either, In fact it took me less than 15 min to put in. If I need more space that is what external drives are for, whether they be small flash drives from 16mb- 8gb or hard drive based ones.
Plus the average user is not going to need to replace the HD, and if they do they can be like those guys who get their ram installed by a apple tech.

I like the design of the PB or MacBook, its sleek, clean and sexy.
would I like more ports sometimes sure, but do I really need them? No.
I find most PC's ugly but still functional, the aluminum really stands out from the crowd of plastic cases.

:confused:

[MacTruck]

Hmm
Mactruck you seem to find the Thinkpad to be the best computer so why don't you use it then instead of complaining the the new apple laptop is not like it.
Apple looks at what the majority of consumers want and need in their computers not the needs or wants of a few.

I can replace my battery easily in fact I carry a spare in my backpack with out turning my PB off.
And my hard drive was not that hard to replace either, In fact it took me less than 15 min to put in. If I need more space that is what external drives are for, whether they be small flash drives from 16mb- 8gb or hard drive based ones.
Plus the average user is not going to need to replace the HD, and if they do they can be like those guys who get their ram installed by a apple tech.

I like the design of the PB or MacBook, its sleek, clean and sexy.
would I like more ports sometimes sure, but do I really need them? No.
I find most PC's ugly but still functional, the aluminum really stands out from the crowd of plastic cases.

:confused:

Quiet. I love apple and my powerbook and the new machine kicks ass. I just wish it had some things it doesn't. Lots of people said they weren't possible for apple so I pointed out the thinkpad line. It can be done and they can still make money. Apple reads these forums. Without people like me you would't see any new and creative things from them because people like you would convince apple they don't need to make them better.

Think about it.
:rolleyes:

[mustard]

Quiet. I love apple and my powerbook and the new machine kicks ass. I just wish it had some things it doesn't. Lots of people said they weren't possible for apple so I pointed out the thinkpad line. It can be done and they can still make money. Apple reads these forums. Without people like me you would't see any new and creative things from them because people like you would convince apple they don't need to make them better.

Think about it.
:rolleyes:

A vocal minority located on the macRumors forum is hardly the key to future development, it can however present an idea to be further investigated.

By some comments in this thread it seems that purchasing the macBook at its current price would be a horrible/irresponsible mistake as a consumer being that there are other laptop manufacturers selling similar machines with added features (removable drives, exc., exc., exc.).The key thing is that most mac users, fanboys, loyalists, switchers, Nazi's (someone refered to my thinking as Nazi-ish - still not sure why) switch for simple reasons such as aesthetics, limited spyware/viriuses, or the generally enjoyable experience of using OS X.

It is an unfair stronghold that Apple has on the Apple/OSX, we want to use for one reason or another because it has no direct competitors and my wallet doesn't necessarily want me to say it... I like it due to its software stability - in regards to hardware support. If everyone sold OS X it would turn in to un-efficient software that is vulnerable & includes so much hardware support that it just wouldn't be the same.

As an analogy Apple is like the only gas station in a small town only selling 93 octane = if you want it - you pay the premium because it is the only one for you. While PC manufacturers are like the stations located on every corner being a penny less here or a penny less there because they HAVE to compete because everyone sells the same gas in their town.

[Cloudgazer]

I, for one, am very happy that the macbook looks like the powerbook.

I think the aluminium design is simple, elegant and impressive.
Also, since I've only had my pbook less than a year (and it will be another 2 yrs before i can afford the macbook) I'm very happy the design hasn't changed.

Its bad enough knowing that your laptop is outdated, but at least it doesn't look like it.

[GimmeSlack12]

The CASE still looks DARKER to me.

[emaja]

I knew someone would say that. Go check out the $2500 model then. :eek:

Yeah, this (http://www-131.ibm.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=4611686018425075566&storeId=10000001&langId=-1&categoryId=2049168&dualCurrId=1000073&catalogId=-840) is so much of a better deal.

$2500 for a computer with 512RAM, 80GB HD, and still crappy x300 graphics and NO DVD BURNER!

And they says Macs ae overpriced.

[MacTruck]

Yeah, this (http://www-131.ibm.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=4611686018425075566&storeId=10000001&langId=-1&categoryId=2049168&dualCurrId=1000073&catalogId=-840) is so much of a better deal.

$2500 for a computer with 512RAM, 80GB HD, and still crappy x300 graphics and NO DVD BURNER!

And they says Macs ae overpriced.

feel better? IBM is slow to update. Wait until they get yonahs in there. They are not as nice as apples but they do have alot of benefits.

$2399

http://www-131.ibm.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=4611686018425132310&storeId=10000001&langId=-1&categoryId=2049168&dualCurrId=1000073&catalogId=-840

[M. Malone]

It needs a new design. Here is what I would like to see.


- Removable hard drives. With this intel cpu I can install xp on a seperate hard drive and swap them when I need to. I must have I think.

- Removable Superdrive. Let me have accessories like another battery, another hard drive or the option to upgrade my superdrive later.

- A FREAKING DOCK CONNECTOR!

- Something more rugged than this cheap aluminum that bends if you look at it wrong.

- A TWO BUTTON TOUCHPAD PLEASE!

- A power button on the outside of the case so I can power it on when hooked up to a monitor without having to open the damn lid.

- Dual DVI ports so I can use 2 monitors. The video card supports it so why not?



Am I wrong folks?

I disagree with anything removable, because that has got flimsy written all over it, I don't wanna hear the MacBook creaking when I pick it up, I'd like it to be just as solid as the current PowerBook, but that's just me :D

[xPismo]

I disagree with anything removable, because that has got flimsy written all over it, I don't wanna hear the MacBook creaking when I pick it up, I'd like it to be just as solid as the current PowerBook, but that's just me :D

I agree with a lot of that. Apples's KISS concept is something I have realised is key to the power of apple hardware. Docks, multi trackpad buttons, and items for fringe users isnt going to help Apple sell.

I will miss the S-video - but only for a week until I get used to using the all digital options now available to me. As for high speed drive connectors - FW800 isn't the end all be all, its successor shall appear sooner than later.

Maybe SAN systems are the new thing? That would be sweet.

[cnakeitaro]

From the above post someone wants "- A TWO BUTTON TOUCHPAD PLEASE!"
Why? If you need two buttons get a mouse. I don't know about anyone else, but I am infact faster with my 1 button trackpad, and pressing cntl when I need to right click. My hands are alot more relaxed and faster when I can press down anywhere on the bar, and not getting a menu to come up, cause I accidentally pressed the right button of the trackpad. Two buttons slows you down, in my opinion, cntl is the way to go for right clicking without a mouse.

If that didn't make any sense, I'm sorry. >.>

[SiliconAddict]

I disagree with anything removable, because that has got flimsy written all over it, I don't wanna hear the MacBook creaking when I pick it up, I'd like it to be just as solid as the current PowerBook, but that's just me :D

A removable hard drive does not make for a flimsy system. It one of the few things I really enjoy about Dell laptops. All of them have the ability to remove the hard drive without disassembling the system. As such upgrading your hard drive doesn't void the warrantee on a Dell.


While I was sad that they didn't resign the system the PowerBook* is still one of the best looking laptops on the market. It could have looked better though with a change in color and material. . .Think carbon fiber composite finished in black.

Also I'm still a tad pissed that Apple still refuses to put a freaking docking port on their systems. Its critically stupid IMHO. It would be so insanely simple to put a slot on the bottom of the PowerBook* and sell a nice little docking station. As it stand when I get my PowerBook* I'm going to have to plug in the power, dink around with the DVI adapter, hook up the Ethernet connection, and plug in the USB hub that connects my mouse/keyboard/scanner/iPod/ and 6 in 1 reader to my PowerBook*. Sorry but someone at Apple is being critically stupid.


I agree with a lot of that. Apples's KISS concept is something I have realised is key to the power of apple hardware. Docks

Docks are NOT fringe user devices. I would like to take you on a tour of the office I support. Everyone uses a dock , even though they are allowed to decline it, I use a dock at home for my ThinPad because instead of taking 3 minutes to connect everything and another 3 minutes to disconnect everything (while making sure the cables don't fall behind the desk.) I simply spend 10 seconds dropping it into the dock and hitting the power button.

[SiliconAddict]

From the above post someone wants "- A TWO BUTTON TOUCHPAD PLEASE!"
Why? If you need two buttons get a mouse. I don't know about anyone else, but I am infact faster with my 1 button trackpad, and pressing cntl when I need to right click. My hands are alot more relaxed and faster when I can press down anywhere on the bar, and not getting a menu to come up, cause I accidentally pressed the right button of the trackpad. Two buttons slows you down, in my opinion, cntl is the way to go for right clicking without a mouse.

If that didn't make any sense, I'm sorry. >.>

Yes because I don't know about you but when I'm on a plane I have so much space for an external mouse that I also bring along an external keyboard as well. :p

Seriously. I will never back down from the notion that its stupid that you need to use two buttons to access a contextual menu. While we are at it why don't we remove all buttons on the mouse and add a new key to the keyboard that is left and right?
Honestly if it wasn't for 3rd party apps that can treat taps on the touchpad as right clicks I would never consider an Apple laptop.

[yankeefan24]

It needs a new design. Here is what I would like to see.


- Removable hard drives. With this intel cpu I can install xp on a seperate hard drive and swap them when I need to. I must have I think.

- Removable Superdrive. Let me have accessories like another battery, another hard drive or the option to upgrade my superdrive later.

- A FREAKING DOCK CONNECTOR!

- Something more rugged than this cheap aluminum that bends if you look at it wrong.

- A TWO BUTTON TOUCHPAD PLEASE!

- A power button on the outside of the case so I can power it on when hooked up to a monitor without having to open the damn lid.

- Dual DVI ports so I can use 2 monitors. The video card supports it so why not?



Am I wrong folks?

i do think they should have redesigned it. I had my finger on buy, then decided, its not worth it. Besides speed, i wouldn't notice anything different than my year old powerbook. I have decided that unless i absolutly need a new laptop, i am not buying one until a new design.

[cecirdr]

I used to own a wallstreet powerbook G3. It had removable bay drives/batteries. I think the pismo did to. I *loved* this feature. I owned both a second drive and battery for the bay. I also liked the black rubberized coating that had on the case...felt good.

I can live with the one button trackpad, but two would be nice. I think the fixation with one button, and size and weight for that matter. are just to keep apple totally differentiated from the rest of the laptop manufacturers. I think they just want to make sure that their laptops look and feel nothing like anyone elses. So they're willing to sacrifice some functionality for aesthetic separation from the crowd.

Presently I use a thinkpad t41p. I like it fine...the modular bay works well and isn't creaky at all. I don't use the docking port, but it's sleekly done on the bottom of the unit. Memory and hard drive replacements are easy to do. But...it's boring looking and runs windows. I despise having to constantly think about viruses and spyware and having programs write to the OS/registry so when something goes wrong I can't freakin fix it. (case in point, my hp all in one printer developed an error if I used the scanner...couldnt reintall the driver, it crapped out part way through the install. Uninstalled, reinstalled, it stil woudlnt' finish the install. Cleaned all residue from the registry...it still won't reinstall completely. Cue scene where hapless end user throws up hands and exclaims that at least she can still print! Due to cryptic windows file names, I have no way to tell what files may be left behind after unistalls and thus can't differentiate this printer's dlls etc from any other hp printer dll)

Another grouse I have now about pc laptops is too much danged screen resolution. I'm seeing 17 inch screens with over 1900x1600 (it's so high I don't know the specific number)! OUCH! I'll have to type my documents at a font that's way too big to print right or I won't be ablet to read it. I don't get the fixation of uber high screen res. So for me, apple's moderate increase in resolution is much more welcome than a PCs "cram every pixel in the univers" onto a screen mentality.

So I guess I have to agree and disagree at the same time. Apple's usability factor is a major draw and for me overcomes their fixation with asthetics. But I like mactruck, do like the option of adding an extra battery or hard drive in a modular bay.

My dilemma, two tablet pcs are going to be released this year..the M400 by toshiba and an asus. Both are core duos (actually not needed for something I'm going to use in my lap...and possibly too hot but no doubt fast), and the tablet OS rocks. The usability of windows is much better in that version of the OS (at least for office stuff)

[dblissmn]

I wouldn't be so quick to jump to conclusions about the MacBook case.

You'll notice from Apple's own web site that the battery is "stacked with the hard drive." If you go further and dig through the press kit, a helpful image from which is on the Rob Galbraith photo web site's article on the MacBook, you'll see a reasonable image of the underside of the computer which shows effectively a very large two part door covering the area of the battery and RAM. One part is for what looks to be a very wide but thin battery, and the other door is presumably for a RAM slot but much wider than would be needed for that alone. If that huge opening of battery and RAM access is indeed "stacked with the hard drive", it can mean only one thing -- a hard drive that is easily user-installable. Not just ten-minute easy like the TiBook was, but two-minute easy.

I will tell you that will be the first thing I look for when I lay my hands on one.

More generally, I think this case will show quite a number of improvements; probably better heat-sinking, still more rigidity and so on, in addition to the improvement in battery, memory and hard drive access that I suspect has taken place.

I don't hold out much hope for the optical drive though -- that's probably still going to be a trial for users to switch.

I think the similarity in appearance is quite deliberate on Apple's part in order to play down the scale of the change and make it seem less intimidating to users. They're going to have to come up with a new case design though to replace the 12 inch laptops, if for no other reason than the switch to wide-format displays.