Adobe vs. Apple vs. Avid

[MacRumors]

Of interest, it appears Avid and Adobe are both stepping up with applications which compete with a couple of Apple's new applcations:

Avid will be releasing (http://www.avid.com/forms/info.asp?iTrackingID=7682) Avid Free DV (for free):


"a streamlined version of Avid's award-winning video editing software with capabilities that include two video tracks, four audio tracks, basic trimming and editing functionality, and up to two streams of real-time effects"


While ease-of-use and overall functionality is unknown... the two video tracks add some functionality that users of Apple's iMovie have been asking for. Avid Free DV is expected to be available in mid-2003... for both Mac OS X and Windows XP.

Adobe is introducing a new product called Adobe Photoshop Album (http://www.adobe.com/products/photoshopalbum/main.html) - This $49.99 package provides similar functionality to Apple's iPhoto, but is Windows only and will be available in February 2003.

[P-Worm]

Well, nothing screams "Good Product" like a bunch of copy cats. Competition's great, maybe this will bring out FCP 4 faster.

Of course, there will be those that see this as a bad thing...:rolleyes:

P-Worm

[chewbaccapits]

But are they trying to break away from macs altogther?...I know avids also run on NT; symphony, right?

[nighthawk]

From what I am reading into this, it is competition for iPhoto and iMovie, not FinalCut Pro (or Express). Did the source say wheither this would be a free downloadable version from Avid, or will there be a price tag to it. If there is, what would it be?

For Adobe to come out with something like iPhoto for the PC only is not a bad idea... Microsoft has not done it yet, and there would be no market for the Mac platform anyways. Once Adobe has released it -- and assuming that Microsoft develops something similar -- Adobe could always make it a free version as well.

[mymemory]

1. Avid knew about FCP express!!!! that mean we have no good inside sources:mad:

2. I like people competting for me:D

[powerhaus]

what i'd like to see in an FCP 4 release would be batch rendering acrossed a network. oh man i'd just loose it...

[arn]

Originally posted by mymemory
1. Avid knew about FCP express!!!! that mean we have no good inside sources:mad:


no... I think Avid knew about iMovie.

arn

[dricci]

The battle of free software! This should get interesting.

However, I doubt any of these 3rd party apps will have the integration and ease of use as the new iLife software

[TheInevitable]

I'm sure that Avid is releasing this free program so that we will use it and become familiar with the Avid brand. Then when we move on up to some pro level software, we will be more likely to choose Avid over FCP.

I love it. There is nothing like good competition to motivate everyone to make better products (and give out free stuff).

[TheInevitable]

I couldn't care less about the Adobe product. If it isn't the full version of Photoshop, who needs it? (I know there are people out there that would like it, but it's not for me).

[P-Worm]

Where did it say that this thing was going to be free besides its name? It could be a $50 dollar program. Unless I'm wrong, then I'll go in the corner and cry...

P-Worm

[TheInevitable]

Originally posted by P-Worm
Where did it say that this thing was going to be free besides its name?

Go to the main page of MacRumors.com. It says, "Avid will be releasing Avid Free DV (for free):"

[arn]

Originally posted by P-Worm
Where did it say that this thing was going to be free besides its name? It could be a $50 dollar program. Unless I'm wrong, then I'll go in the corner and cry...


From the link:

Avid Free DV is an easy, free way to join the Avid family and learn the industry-standard editing interface and toolset used by more professionals than any other video editing solution

[awulf]

Microsoft has released something similar to iPhoto (on windows), I can't remeber the name but it looked similar to iPhoto and costs about AU$200.

[barkmonster]

I can't wait to shoot down the first PC owner that brags about Photoshop Album being windows only!

It's going to be so funny :D

SO many PC people seem to ignore the amount of stuff that are mac only first, it was only last year sometime when a friend of mine bragged about a guy at work who'd done a networking course and there was now "wireless!!" networking on the PC, "I bet you havn't got anything like that on the mac" was the first thing said after mentioning it. after explaining how airport had been on the mac for a few year already and asking why their mac based graphics department hadn't mentioned it earlier resulted in the only possible response.... "whatever!"

[LethalWolfe]

Originally posted by P-Worm
Well, nothing screams "Good Product" like a bunch of copy cats. Competition's great, maybe this will bring out FCP 4 faster.

Of course, there will be those that see this as a bad thing...:rolleyes:

P-Worm

Exactly, that's why the FCP interface is very, very similiar to the standard Avid interface. :)

I'm interested to see what exactly you get for free, so I'll be downloading the program when it comes out.

chewbaccapits , AFAIK all of Avid's programs have Mac and PC versions w/the exception of their DS line which is PC only. And the PC versions usually require Win2k (but avid.com is down right now so I can't confirm).


Lethal

[pimentoLoaf]

Great! A free version of an industry-standard editor?

Don't think Adobe Premiere is long for this world...

[LethalWolfe]

Originally posted by pimentoLoaf
Great! A free version of an industry-standard editor?

Don't think Adobe Premiere is long for this world...

Considering you only get 2 trax of video and 4 trax of audio (only details I know right now) I don't think Premiere is in any real danger. I don't like Premiere, but somehow I think I'd rather use Premiere than Avid Free DV if I had actual work to do. ;)

Free DV is there to compete w/iMovie and Windows Movie Maker (which I've never actually heard of anyone using before).

Lethal

[Dandee]

Originally posted by barkmonster
a friend of mine bragged about a guy at work who'd done a networking course and there was now "wireless!!" networking on the PC.

Well, well, well Barkmonster. If that was truly a friend of yours, then treat him like a friend. As soon as Airport was due to show up, you had to tell it to your friend. In that way he'd made The Switch already!
Just an advice, it works for me.

[mozez]

microsoft has a "media pack" for a $20, not $200, upgrade, it has an "iphoto-like" program as well as a newer movie maker, and others, it's stupid, it sucks, it's just so people thinking of going to a mac can THINK they are still getting just the same if not more on a pc, we all know different, but they are sheep... Apple acts as a general, for a company that wages no wars. apple is often attacked, but it holds ground and stands on the top of the hill, along with the dedicated, waiving to the masses under harsh windows rule below. :) (writing class).

anyway, avid is nice, and i do believe they are going for the same idea as apple, get them hooked, then charge money for it by offereing more features so you have justification for the cost increase, i.e. idvd and others. then maybe they look at higher end apps from avid.

as pointless as adobe's iphoto clone is, i don't like the idea of them making anything pc only, it worries me of future things, like if apple ever made a photoshop type program, would adobe just drop the mac entirely, they are still pissed over the firewire premiere holdup. couldn't get it working and apple didn't help cause of fcp compitition, or so it's said... i just hope it doesn't start a trend in adobe thinking.

one thing about avid i like is that it runs very well, even on older macs.

[Scottgfx]

iMovie is a consumer product. Avid's DV Free (I know that's backwards, but it's funnier) is the Avid experience pared down. Consumers would be lost in it.

Proof that Avid's afraid of FCP? I received a brochure from Avid in the mail a month or so ago. In it there's a long article about an edit boutique that couldn't get their FCP setup to work. To me, it sounded like either the guys didn't know what they were buying or had a bad system integrator. I know that I've had some bad Avid demos from both Avid and their resellers, so i think they need to look inward. They have given their base a reason to look elsewhere.

[gotohamish]

Yes, it might be "free" but it might not be a simple download - it might come bundled with digital camcorders or PCs as OEM - that way it's free, but Avid still get a cut from the product seller. Kind of the same for iMovie really.

When everyone got freaked before the Expo about the possibility of charging for the iApps, you had to remember they have never been free downloads for iMovie and iDVD - you got them bundled in the system - either in a box, or with a Mac.

[marmotte]

Originally posted by mozez
microsoft has a "media pack" for a $20, not $200, upgrade, it has an "iphoto-like" program as well as a newer movie maker,

That's what he said: AU$200 = 200 Australian Dollars...

[zim]

Avid already has this posted on their site... there is a fourm to fill out....

http://www.avid.com/forms/info.asp?iTrackingID=7682

personally, I do not like avids methods of business (having done design work for them) and have not found anything unique about their software strategies, final cut pro kills their avid xpress (my opinion).

I don't know what kind of consumer support avid expects to see from this free app due to that most general consumers that use apps like iMovie, are not looking around the web for solutions because they are novice users and most likely have never heard of avid.

[cmassof]

This is probably an updated version of Avid Cinema that was around long before iMovie or FCP. Avid getting back into the hobbiest video market can only mean good things for future version of iMovie.

[zuffen]

Don't forget the free Moviemaker from Microsoft and they were offering Movie oneX or X-one before XP came out

[LethalWolfe]

Originally posted by zim
Avid already has this posted on their site... there is a fourm to fill out....

http://www.avid.com/forms/info.asp?iTrackingID=7682

personally, I do not like avids methods of business (having done design work for them) and have not found anything unique about their software strategies, final cut pro kills their avid xpress (my opinion).

I don't know what kind of consumer support avid expects to see from this free app due to that most general consumers that use apps like iMovie, are not looking around the web for solutions because they are novice users and most likely have never heard of avid.

But how does FCP stand up to Avid's F/MC, Symphony or DS systems? ;)

I think DV Free is probably going to targeted towards the same demographic that free Pro-Tools LE is. Someone a step above the common user that would only use iMovie a few times.

[dprlynch]

I love Adobe products and still use Windows all day at work (iBook at home), and appreciate good Windows programs.

But that Adobe program doesn't even hold a candle to iPhoto. The layout of it isn't as "friendly" as iPhoto, and just doesn't seem as intuitive. iPhoto is definitely one of my favorite apps on a Mac, and I have yet to see an equivalent for Windows, or an equal 3rd party program for a Mac.

[TheInevitable]

I agree. I think the target is the kid that would buy FCPro in his dreams, would buy FCExpress if he had $300, but until then, he's going to use whatever he can get for free. Then, when he's experienced and needs the "real deal", he may go to an Avid product because he has become familiar with the interface.

I think that's the same idea that ProTools and Maya have.

[zuffen]

You really can't compare a street car to a formula one racer.

Software to software I think FCP is straight on with AVID any version, discreet has a line of stuff that is quite impressive.

I would have FCP or Avid DVexpress any old day, but for a Windows newbie the Avid product might be easier to learn.

I think Avid DVex lacks alot of the of the controlability that is available in FCP. I've used both of them but for fast turnaround a still prefer the Media composer, mainly becuase it is a no nonsense easy to use hardware machine. I've yet to use a full blown loaded dual 1.25 FCP machine.

But hardware wise (where the analogy come in) you can't stick a G4 dual against a purpose built hardware machine. Even if you add the hardware cards available you won't see the same results as a the purpsoe built machine.

The AVID symphony running on NT does suck but that is the software and not the hardware. It is worth the time using the slower FCP loaded than to deal with a NT machine crashing video.

Of course as the engineers say , it is all in who sets up the machine and keep it running. Any editor should be used for editing only, if you start adding games and browsers and excess Adobe products your going to run into issues.

[varkie]

I like iPhoto a lot, but PS Album does some fascinating things that iPhoto can't. You can create tags (people, location, etc.) and apply them to photos, then search for photos using those tags. It's pretty damn cool.

It will be interesting to see the reaction -- I hope Apple looks at it closely and incorporates some of the ideas.

[GeneR]

I went to the Avid site and filled in my name to be informed when the free app will come out. Personally, I've been trained on Avid but like FCP better. I am open to feedback about this. I think the people at Apple have done a tremendous job coming up with FCP. I use it for all my DV work.

:D

[MacKid]

Originally posted by varkie
I like iPhoto a lot, but PS Album does some fascinating things that iPhoto can't. You can create tags (people, location, etc.) and apply them to photos, then search for photos using those tags. It's pretty damn cool.

It will be interesting to see the reaction -- I hope Apple looks at it closely and incorporates some of the ideas.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought you could do the same thing (or similar thing) on iPhoto. . .:confused:

[Macophile]

Originally posted by varkie
I like iPhoto a lot, but PS Album does some fascinating things that iPhoto can't. You can create tags (people, location, etc.) and apply them to photos, then search for photos using those tags. It's pretty damn cool.


You can do this already. It’s that little grid in Organize view with the boxes labeled “Favorite,” “Family,” “Kids,” Pets,” etc. There are blank ones, too, so you can add more categories as you need them. Select a picture, make sure that the little switch to the left of the grid is set to “Assign” and just click on the categories that you’d like the picture to be placed into. Yes, “categories” -- multiple. You don’t have to limit it to just one. Then, to find them, set the switch to “Find” and click on the category/ies that you’re looking for.

So let’s say that you take a picture of your niece playing with her new pet puppy at Christmas. Assign the picture to the categories “Family,” “Kids,” “Pets,” and “Holiday.” Then, when you’re looking for that picture later on, click on any of those categories and that picture, along with any others that match, will either appear alone in the preview pane, or if you have your pictures sorted by rolls and collapsed, the rolls that have pictures that meet that criteria will appear by themselves. If you click on multiple categories, iPhoto finds just the pictures that meet all of those criteria. So if you click on “Family” and every picture you took at your family reunion last summer pops up, then click on “Kids” to narrow it down some. Still too many? Click on “Pets.” You get the idea.

You’re looking forward to a feature that you already have in iPhoto 1.1.

[lost_n_mad]

Originally posted by gotohamish
you had to remember they have never been free downloads for iMovie and iDVD - you got them bundled in the system - either in a box, or with a Mac.
Hmmmm, I downloaded iMovie2 for OS X for free when it came out and for some reason (probably the absence of FireWire) I didn't get it with my iBook 366 SE. Now iDVD has NEVER been a free d/l, but Steve stated the size was prohibitive for a d/l.

[Pedro Estarque]

I think Apple should use it's developing resources by building Final Cut Pro 4 and then rename FCP3 as express, instead of spending developer's time to build a slimmed down version of it.

[LethalWolfe]

Originally posted by Pedro Estarque
I think Apple should use it's developing resources by building Final Cut Pro 4 and then rename FCP3 as express, instead of spending developer's time to build a slimmed down version of it.


If you think about it that makes no sense what so ever.


Lethal

[Pedro Estarque]

Originally posted by LethalWolfe



If you think about it that makes no sense what so ever.


Lethal

why not?

[bretm]

Originally posted by Pedro Estarque
I think Apple should use it's developing resources by building Final Cut Pro 4 and then rename FCP3 as express, instead of spending developer's time to build a slimmed down version of it.

From what I can tell, it's not a slimmed down version. Features are just off. It only works with DV footage instead of uncompressed, mjpeg, etc. And it doesn't have the full blown Davinci color corrector. I don't think they wasted much developer time. Probably wasted more time marketing and printing.

[LethalWolfe]

Originally posted by Pedro Estarque


why not?

Why would you market pro level software to consumers? Why give them things they would never, ever, ever use or need? Why severely damage the credibility and reputation of the Final Cut Pro name by making the "last version" a consumer product? Why cut into FCP 4 sales by dropping FCP 3 into the bargin bin?


Lethal