Mac Mini isn't mini at all.

Don't get me wrong, since I own a 2012 Mac Mini and love it, but your comparison is kind of obvious.

I would hope a 2012 Mac Mini with a Core i5 or i7 CPU and HD4000 graphics would blow the doors off a 2008 iMac with what - a Core solo or duo CPU and 4 years older graphics technology.

fhall1 said:

Don't get me wrong, since I own a 2012 Mac Mini and love it, but your comparison is kind of obvious.

I would hope a 2012 Mac Mini with a Core i5 or i7 CPU and HD4000 graphics would blow the doors off a 2008 iMac with what - a Core solo or duo CPU and 4 years older graphics technology.

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True, but it's also true that for most tasks, the 2012 i7 Mini is faster than the 2012 i5 iMac.

I jumped to the wrong conclusion with this thread title because
I'm hoping that Apple won't go even thinner or min-nier with the mini. However while I have always thought they hold up pretty well for most tasks representing value for money it's just that now it's time to upgrade it or at least drop the price if it's going to hang around for a while longer.

Mal67 said:

it's time to upgrade it or at least drop the price if it's going to hang around for a while longer.

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I don't see that happening for quite some time when they sell out in a matter of days on Amazon and they still to this day hold their value on ebay.

I agree, the mini is huuuuuuuuuuge! They should make it the size of a sticky note!

But seriously, the Mac Mini is great. It is definitely better when compared to a 4 year old machine; when compared to the base model of all the current ones, it doesnt really hold its ground.

sonicrobby said:

I agree, the mini is huuuuuuuuuuge! They should make it the size of a sticky note!

But seriously, the Mac Mini is great. It is definitely better when compared to a 4 year old machine; when compared to the base model of all the current ones, it doesnt really hold its ground.

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The mini is actually pretty large by today's standards, using the Intel NUC as a reference. The current Mini case was originally designed to contain an optical drive, which means now Apple can make it much smaller.

CausticPuppy said:

The mini is actually pretty large by today's standards, using the Intel NUC as a reference. The current Mini case was originally designed to contain an optical drive, which means now Apple can make it much smaller.

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It drives me crazy when people compare these two. Please take into account the power brick which is INSIDE the mac mini and OUTSIDE the NUC.

if apple put the power supply OUTSIDE the mini, then it would be smaller... it has little to do with the fact that there used to be an optical drive in the mini and now there isn't. Maybe they didn't change the design drastically since it was easier to just remove the optical drive and keep the rest of the mini in a similar (but flatter) configuration, but the volume it takes up is due to the power supply being inside the box.

So if you are going to compare the two, compare the volume of the NUC + power supply to the mini or gripe about how they should move the power supply outside the mini to make it smaller (which I don't think they should do, btw).

I WAS the one said:

I own a lot of Macs. Recently I bought a use Mac Mini from 2012. I need to tell you that my 2008 iMac it's slower and clunky if I compare both in speed and productivity.

People underestimate the Mac Mini because of the price but I really thinking in buying news Mac Minis for the next years to come. As soon I get rid of my iMacs and MacBooks I'm pretty sure my house will be full of Minis soon.

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Which is exactly why it will be gimped in some major way.

squirrrl said:

It drives me crazy when people compare these two. Please take into account the power brick which is INSIDE the mac mini and OUTSIDE the NUC.

if apple put the power supply OUTSIDE the mini, then it would be smaller... it has little to do with the fact that there used to be an optical drive in the mini and now there isn't. Maybe they didn't change the design drastically since it was easier to just remove the optical drive and keep the rest of the mini in a similar (but flatter) configuration, but the volume it takes up is due to the power supply being inside the box.

So if you are going to compare the two, compare the volume of the NUC + power supply to the mini or gripe about how they should move the power supply outside the mini to make it smaller (which I don't think they should do, btw).

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Good point.....also, all the reviews I've read of the NUCs say that the fans are audible pretty much all the time whereas the Mini's fan is only audible if you're doing real CPU-intensive tasks (think video conversions).

I WAS the one said:

I own a lot of Macs. Recently I bought a use Mac Mini from 2012. I need to tell you that my 2008 iMac it's slower and clunky if I compare both in speed and productivity.

People underestimate the Mac Mini because of the price but I really thinking in buying news Mac Minis for the next years to come. As soon I get rid of my iMacs and MacBooks I'm pretty sure my house will be full of Minis soon.

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The Mac Mini is the most under promoted product IMO.

I never considered one because I didn't even know what it was until recently. I almost assumed it wasn't good.

When I did some research I found that in fact it's a really good computer.

I think Apple should advertise it more. I'd prefer it over an iMac because I'd rather buy an awesome screen I can use with any computer in the future.

I WAS the one said:

People underestimate the Mac Mini because of the price

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A monitor, keyboard and mouse *do* come in handy for most domestic applications, though...

Hieveryone said:

The Mac Mini is the most under promoted product IMO.

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It's a tough sell. Have no idea if they're displayed in Apple Stores, but if they are then they're almost certainly paired up with Apple Thunderbolt Displays which makes the sticker price very unattractive to the 'casual shopper'.

They need to be displayed with both:

a) A ~$150 23" third party monitor with DisplayPort, demonstrating that you don't actually need to use a $1000 display, and

b) A grubby old VGA CRT monitor, with the most horrible 90s PC-branded keyboard and mouse they can find, demonstrating that it can be used with any old cräp.

mojolicious said:

They need to be displayed with both:

a) A ~$150 23" third party monitor with DisplayPort, demonstrating that you don't actually need to use a $1000 display, and

b) A grubby old VGA CRT monitor, with the most horrible 90s PC-branded keyboard and mouse they can find, demonstrating that it can be used with any old cräp.

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Have you ever stepped inside an apple store? That will never happen. It's comical just imagining apple displaying a CRT in their stores. And stores typically don't display things they are not planning on selling.

Also, you are really underestimating the average electronics consumer if you think they can't even imagine a mini using a different display. People can also open their mouths and ask the question as well.

squirrrl said:

stores typically don't display things they are not planning on selling.

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Apple Stores might not; other retailers use all kinds of props. I think a 'turn of the millennium office' set, complete with nasty desk, chair, partitions, carpet tiles etc would be a bloody excellent idea.

mojolicious said:

Apple Stores might not; other retailers use all kinds of props. I think a 'turn of the millennium office' set, complete with nasty desk, chair, partitions, carpet tiles etc would be a bloody excellent idea.

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I guess one man's good idea is another man's silly nonsense.

Don't worry, squirrrl. We can't all be visionaries.

mojolicious said:

Don't worry, squirrrl. We can't all be visionaries.

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lol... i guess not.

A CPU from today is faster than a CPU from 2008? Who would've thought it!

Don't be fooled by size.

mojolicious said:

It's a tough sell. Have no idea if they're displayed in Apple Stores, but if they are then they're almost certainly paired up with Apple Thunderbolt Displays which makes the sticker price very unattractive to the 'casual shopper'.

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Yup, that's pretty much what happens, except that the sticker will be just for the Mac Mini, maybe with the display price in slightly smaller print.

squirrrl said:

And stores typically don't display things they are not planning on selling.

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Also true. On the other hand, stores don't like punters wandering off to look at displays in other stores, lest they also buy their computer there, too.

The real problem at the moment, though is that the Apple Thunderbolt Display is old and overpriced. If they'd updated it with the new iMac-style design and screen, plus USB3, a year or so back then it would still be credible as a MacBook accessory - but the docking features have limited appeal if you're using it with a Mac Mini, Mac Pro or even as a second screen for an iMac.

mojolicious said:

Apple Stores might not; other retailers use all kinds of props. I think a 'turn of the millennium office' set, complete with nasty desk, chair, partitions, carpet tiles etc would be a bloody excellent idea.

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People wanting to keep really old monitors and such are not going to be looking at a computer that starts at $600. They'll be looking at the $350 PCs grudgingly paying that price. That $350 PC with a Pentium G3220 and 4GB RAM is more than powerful enough for the vast majority of people and will last them several years.

They most definitely won't see any additional value to the tiny compact design of the Mini. Frankly, I don't see it either. It's a desktop, unlike a laptop, making it small and light adds no value to me. I'd rather it be $450 and full sized.

The only reason I can see why it sells as well as it does. Is that it is the cheapest Mac available. So someone that wants a Mac enough or is completely fed up with Windows. Can at least choke down the $600 for a Mini perhaps being upsold to the $800 model due to the longer useful life.

velocityg4 said:

They most definitely won't see any additional value to the tiny compact design of the Mini. Frankly, I don't see it either. It's a desktop, unlike a laptop, making it small and light adds no value to me. I'd rather it be $450 and full sized.

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I agree with all of that bar the last sentence: I'm not sure that there's any significant costs attached to making 'laptop scale' components these days, is there? But I'd be delighted to pay the same price for a double-height Mini which had better cooling and easier access.

velocityg4 said:

The only reason I can see why it sells as well as it does. Is that it is the cheapest Mac available.

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Hmmm. Of the half dozen or so Mini owners I know, I don't believe any of them have been motivated by price. Factors involved are dislike of all-in-ones from a 'if one thing fails it all goes in the bin' perspective, dislike of the glazing, wanting to use both Mini and other computer with a single display, the thought that at some point down the road an ageing headless Mini might be extremely useful in a server role. I think the most significant of those factors is the iMac's glazing: it is absolutely loathed by a great many people, myself included.

I truly believe that given the choice of a $1100 base iMac or an $1100 Mini Pro (triple height; decent quad processor and discrete graphics card; a PCIe slot; easy access to drive bays and memory slots) then *all* the Mini owners of my acquaintance would still go with the Mini.

The reason such a Mac doesn't exist, of course, is that it would *destroy* the base Mac Pro market.

My reason for getting a Mac Mini is because I could not justify a $2500 laptop and I wanted to try out Mac. The Mac Mini can be repurposed as a media server which I like because I have a lot of movies on iTunes. So if I like it, I can make the decision to save up for a macbook pro, if I don't like it, it is a very expensive media server

I don't really see people using regular desktops anymore. I swapped out my PC desktop a few years ago for a laptop. The portability is just so much nicer! When I go to Best Buy now, all I see on the floor are laptops and all-in-ones.

I am still not totally sold on the Mac yet so I am glad that so far it is only a $700 investment. If it was $2500 I think I would be forcing myself to like it regardless. My only gripe really is the games. The only game I play is The Sims and I read a lot about it and read that it worked fine, saw some video and it looked good etc. When I went to install it, it took like 3 days of non stop errors and uninstalling and reinstalling before it finally started working during which time I read that they basically put a wrapper around the game that was developed for Windows so it is basically like running in a Windows vm on top of the Mac. And that it is extremely buggy so you should install Windows on your Mac. I don't want to install Windows on my Mac! I feel like that completely defeats the purpose.

Also, I have never been fed up with Windows. I just want to use Xcode and learn some objective C.