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View Full Version : Attention PeeC Whinners


MontanaMacster
Jan 29, 2002, 03:53 AM
First off Mac ownership is a privelage. If the price is the only thing you can find to complain about, what if any is there realy to complain about? Apple offers instants loan to the average Joe, as well as Educaution and Business Organizations looking to find the computer hardware or software they need.
I come from a less than middle-class income based lineage. My family's choice of computer has always come adorned with the mark of quality that is the Apple logo. My parents as well as I have always been willing to pay the extra amount, to be blessed with a great peice of machinery. Our first Computer was the Apple IIe, then we moved on to the Mac Classic, next was the Mac Color Classic, then it was the Imac, and my next step is the High-End Flat pannel Imac(I pre-ordered Jan8 and can't wait to get it). If a low price is all you realy care about when purchasing a computer, go with a company that peices together cheap multibrand components together with software made by even more companies buy a crappy win based box. If quality means anything to you, heres a good place to start http://store.apple.com

Beej
Jan 29, 2002, 04:04 AM
Hear hear.

irmongoose
Jan 29, 2002, 04:44 AM
I agree... PC guys shouldnt only care bout price... its the inside that counts!




irmongoose

j763
Jan 29, 2002, 09:08 AM
exactly - you pay for quality. they get so caught up with "getting the most for their money" but what they don't realise is that they're getting sold crappy parts... mhz ram etc. are all they're concerned with.

tk-421
Jan 29, 2002, 10:14 AM
I'm a convert myself. Well, not fully yet. I've been on Windows since the beginning on my computer days but have only recently crossed over to the dark side (or is it the Good Force side for Apple? ;) )

Anyway, I got a G4 for video and loved it. I recently sold it to get a new FP iMac. (and pay off some debt) But I've yet to fully convert. I've been a PC user all my life, so it's not easy to switch cold turkey (I sound like a smoker). No point to the story, just wanted to share. lol :D

Six
Jan 29, 2002, 12:09 PM
I'll drink to that!!!

When you buy a car, or a house, you pay for what you get... But with Apple, if we paid for the quality we get, it would be thousands more... (but thats okay that its not!) :)

dantec
Jan 29, 2002, 12:24 PM
I agree with all of you!!!

I just thought this up... way back in 1996 netscape was the leading provider of Internet browsers... then M$ came along and their empire fell... Maybe its the same here... In 2001 M$ was the leader in software... but in 2005 apple came back and sent the company to file chapter 11!

chicagdan
Jan 29, 2002, 01:33 PM
>>In 2001 M$ was the leader in software... but in 2005 apple came back and sent the company to file chapter 11!

It will never happen ... MS is like the Bush family, when they are losing, they change the rules of the game. If PC sales started to collapse, MS would shift to X-Box like devices. If Mac started to gain huge market share, they'd find a way to leverage MS Office (the true MS monopoly) into a trojan horse revenue stream.

Let's get this straight ... Apple has 5 percent marketshare ONLY because they are competing against the most powerful, ruthless, amoral company in the history of the world. It's not a level playing field and never will be.

maclamb
Jan 29, 2002, 01:49 PM
I'm glad to see the discussion is about M$business practices and not quality issues.
It has never (rarely?) been about quality (although my ibook was in the shop for 3 weeks a month after I got it waiting for a spare part - conversely, after I swapped the hd on it myself and ROYALLY ********D it up, apple support repalced the entirte bottom w/ no questions asked.)

That REALLY endeared them to me.

I am curious to see if MAc OSX will give XP a run for its money on the desktop as well as server...

Macmaniac
Jan 29, 2002, 03:58 PM
In the world of computers you get what you pay for. When you buy a Mac you know its well made and had a solid OS. But when u buy a PC u get the crap parts and the crap OS. It is very simple when you buy a mac it will last you a long time and it will work well. As for M$ I hate them and I jope they burn down.


_______________
700mhz snow
100mhz performa

Not all who wander are lost.

networkman
Feb 1, 2002, 02:27 AM
you are so right and people often don't see the benefit that a mac has over a pc in the second and even third year of ownership...fewer problems and this is cheaper overall in the long run anyway

but don't tell anyone so i can still stay in business fixing everything pc

DakotaGuy
Feb 1, 2002, 03:02 AM
Here as an analogy for you...

What do you think would work better...

a) a car that was built with a Ford engine...a Chevy tranny...a body built by Toyota...front suspension by Dodge...rear suspension by Pontiac...the interior by Mercury...and one Firestone, one Goodyear, one Michelin, and one General tire?

b) or a car that was built all by one company with all the same tires on it.


b) would be the right choice...and for computers...if everyone makes something for it and then puts an OS on top of it that is basically a generic OS how the heck is it supposed to work right and be a quality product.

(boy I'd like to see that cobbled up heap) hehe

tadpole
Feb 1, 2002, 05:35 AM
uh dudes, i hate to break this to you all, but the mac components are all outsourced and are manufactured by the same guys who manufacture pc parts. Apple is a hardware integrator and a software company, they do not have manufacturing capabilities of their own. all of their stuff comes from the oems and third party assembly lines. they simply spec what goes on in their machine, etc. go ahead, fellas, look at your ram modules who made them? check out your harddrives and power supplies. thats right, open that baby up and see for yourself.

oh and uh MontanaMacster, since you made a point of saying your socioeconomic standing- I come from a sensible middleclass-professional/merchant background, we follow the quality of the merchandise. But lets not let this devolve into a Bourgeoisie vs. Proletariat class war because really, historically, we won- the general strike never happen. :-) Chill dude.


oh and by the way, i'm a unix (IRIX and Solaris are my babies) man, so i have nothing to gain by taking sides with either macs or pcs. right now i'm in the market for a nice G5 to run linux on, as soon as they hit the applestore.com, i'll be the first to burn a hole in my mastercard.

cheers.

maclamb
Feb 1, 2002, 11:04 AM
I've tried to build my own dual processer "Ideal" PeeCee video system and ran into all sorts of peecee IRQ issues, etc.

My company has used Dells - they seemed well made, could handle lots of customization (adding/swapping cads and drives) EXCELLENT (Nexty day ) Support - Which I think Apple has to add if they RELLY want to compete in the Business space...

BUT... I've been (back) on the mac platform - OSX - since August and have made the decison to switch to mac for good.
I'll be replacing my staff's Dells with new IMacs.
We'll keep one Wintel machine for software that doesn;t run on mac (Oracle, .NET, Quickbooks, etc) - but looks like we can move off PeeCee land for good.

Wash!!
Feb 1, 2002, 12:12 PM
Quickbooks runs on the mac, Oracle runs on the mac. the .NET thing is a M$
scam to expand their monopoly on the use of web browsers.

Cheers

maclamb
Feb 1, 2002, 12:37 PM
yes QB runs on the mac
BUT - the file formats on windows (where we run QB 2000 Pro) is not compatable with QB on Mac and QB will not supply a conversion utility.
MYOB does, ut our accountant uses QB -

oracle has ports for Windows, Linux and Solaris.

I may try to get oracle for linux working on the mac.

is this what you were referring to ...
and have you actually SEEN it run on the mac?

While .Net may be more M$ monopolistic efforts ( different argument - but I agree) - my clients ( my firm does high end tech training) what to know about it so i need to at least be familair with it...
I don't mind keeoing one or two peecees for these purposes - while 98% of everything else is mac.

LethalWolfe
Feb 22, 2002, 03:02 AM
Hey, careful guys... someone might pull a muscle if you pat yourselves on the back any harder...:rolleyes: What you love 'bout Macs (getting everything handed to you w/a bow on top) is what most PC users hate about Macs (having limited severly<sp?> limited options).

My current PC was built by my own 2 hands over a year ago and she stays up for months at a time (most common reason for reboot is for new hardware or software). And 9 months ago I add some prosumer level hardware so I could edit video on her too. It all went smooth as silk (not bad for my first home built rig).

That said, in the coming months I hope to have enough money saved up to buy a new G4 so I can dump Premiere and be with the program I truly love... Final Cut Pro :D

On one hand, I like the one stop shopping that Apple gives you, but on the other I like picking and chooings and building something from the ground up. I guess I'm just some half-breed bastard that likes PCs and Macs... Oh well... yer loss, my gain ;)

Lethal

krossfyter
Feb 22, 2002, 03:22 AM
and it is these kinds of people who keep microsoft running...


people just need to wake the hell up and by apple, Linux and or amd for now on or who ever else doesnt need microsoft anymore. screw this crap. why keep on feeding the hungry demon any more? i dont care what your preferences are as far as this goes...this is a test of ones charachter.


fire away!

Taft
Feb 22, 2002, 07:58 AM
I think some computer geeks get some sort of sick thrill from building their own machines. The way I see it, my machine is very special to me; almost like a living thing--a pet or kid. I love my machine.

To build my own machine out of parts I've collected here and there....well that would be like Dr. Frankenstein's efforts. I would be creating a thing not meant for this world.

Oh the horror!

Matthew

LethalWolfe
Feb 22, 2002, 12:58 PM
Originally posted by mrtrumbe
I think some computer geeks get some sort of sick thrill from building their own machines. The way I see it, my machine is very special to me; almost like a living thing--a pet or kid. I love my machine.

To build my own machine out of parts I've collected here and there....well that would be like Dr. Frankenstein's efforts. I would be creating a thing not meant for this world.

Oh the horror!

Matthew

LOL

Yeah... I seem to remember yelling "It's alive!! ALIVE!!!" The first time I powered up my homemade winbox. :D And she *is* my baby. And like every child she grows and changes. I just don't sell her or put her in a closet after a few years and buy a new baby ;).
I do think PC lovers like to "tinker" more than Mac lovers. I mean, building the box is only the begining. After that you need to overclock the proc, vid card, and RAM. Of course then you need to throw in a few more fans 'cause the air inside there is hot enough to cook hotdogs. But then, with all those fans, it starts sounding like jet sitting the room. So then you figure out how to quiet the case, but still keep good cooling...etc, etc, etc. It's fun. Well, IMO it's fun. :) I think PCs are this generations' muscle car, ya know? Instead of going to Billy's house to see his tweaked out Charger, you go to Billy's house to see his overclocked, water-cooled, Athlon.

And, contrary to popular belief, PC nuts don't like M$ anymore than Mac addicts do. A good number of my friends run linux on their main box and only use Windoze for gaming and other apps that don't have a linux support or a linux equivalent.

Lethal

krossfyter
Feb 22, 2002, 01:22 PM
muscle car in the inside but ugly as hell in the outside.

would you put a v12 in a frekin pinto? if so your tripping on them shrooms a bit too much.


;)

LethalWolfe
Feb 22, 2002, 03:41 PM
Originally posted by krossfyter
muscle car in the inside but ugly as hell in the outside.

would you put a v12 in a frekin pinto? if so your tripping on them shrooms a bit too much.


;)

V12 in a pinto... Hmmmm ;)

Yeah, Mac definetly wins the "style" race hands down. I've heard of a people modding Graphite cases to accept PC mobos and such, but I've never seen it first hand.


Lethal

lewdvig
Feb 22, 2002, 04:25 PM
Best thing about Macs when it comes to buying and selling is that they hold their value.

Not only this, but old Macs are still quite useful!

This has been my experience over the past few months:

1. Dec - I had credit at a consigment store. Saw a Mac 2vx for $40cdn monitor for $25. Bought it with ten educational games for my 2 year old. At this point I have not owned a Mac for 7 years. A bit slow, but OS8.6 works pretty good. Its 12 years old!

2. Jan - 2vx mentioned at work. Co-worker has a PM7600, it can be mine for $100cdn. Sold! I re-consign the VX. It sells in a week. All games (some current) run fine on the 7600. Web surfer is OK.

3. Buy 256meg Ram from Velocity $65cdn. 288 total.

4. Buy 4.3 gb drive $65cdn. Install sisters OSX for giggles using unsupportedX, it works!

5. Guy at work GIVES me a 604e CPU and 32meg ATI Nexus.

6. Now I need a monitor, while looking I find an iMac 400DV new old stock. $550 cdn. This is retail with warranty!

7. Sell the pm7600 for $300, keep the Nexus.

This is more fun than I had building my PC (which is for sale BTW). I can't wait to get my hands on an older G4. I have a great video card, 512 megs of RAM, and 96gb or storage from my PC that are going into it.

I love Macs again!

lewdvig
Feb 22, 2002, 04:34 PM
BIOS access on my mac for 'tweaking'

or

Jumper on the mobo

I have burned out 2 Athlons doing crazy OCing (the parts are cheap, and number two was WARRANTIED!). Its lots of fun, and the smoke smells yummy.

When the new G4-7500s come out I would love to do some watercooling OC action on one. The trciks have not been discovered yet, but somewhere on the mobo or daughtercard lies the secret we seek.

Wife thinks I am crazy.

mischief
Feb 22, 2002, 04:38 PM
Originally posted by lewdvig
BIOS access on my mac for 'tweaking'

or

Jumper on the mobo

I have burned out 2 Athlons doing crazy OCing (the parts are cheap, and number two was WARRANTIED!). Its lots of fun, and the smoke smells yummy.

When the new G4-7500s come out I would love to do some watercooling OC action on one. The trciks have not been discovered yet, but somewhere on the mobo or daughtercard lies the secret we seek.

Wife thinks I am crazy.

Gah! BIOS access?!? Ick. No. Bad idea.

Jumper on the Mobo? I'd rather see a swappable oscillator.

BTW: Solder smoke is EXTREMELY carcinogenic. it make cigarettes look like fresh mountain air.

lewdvig
Feb 22, 2002, 09:09 PM
Athlons burn blue BTW and make purple smoke with a slightly sweet smell.


You have not lived until you have beat a 50% OC.

Taft
Feb 22, 2002, 09:45 PM
I think that do it yourself PCs will always survive. "Well, duh." you say.

What I mean is that even if Apple, or Sun, or IBM or Compaq, or Dell...if any of them were to totally redefine and dominate the market with a pre-built box, there are enough people out there with a love of tinkering and electronics that the build your own PC would survive. These people are the same types who are working on open source, Linux and the likes. Not all geeks have the same interests (overclocking, building PCs, programming, etc) but they all have some personality trait that draws them to the world of computing.

Oddly enough, I think a lot of innovation and cool stuff comes from these types of people and their communities. Even though I'm a die-hard Mac lover, I never want to see Macs completely dominate the marketplace. There will always be a part of me that remembers building Linux kernels for my PPC, trying to get DVDs to work, etc.

Those were the days...

Matthew

Rower_CPU
Feb 22, 2002, 10:10 PM
It is possible to build your own Mac ... you just have to look hard for the parts.
My coworker bought an old Performa clone, added a G4 upgrade card, drives, etc, heat sink fan and a huge cooling fan (sounds like an airplane!). It's not pretty, but it runs OS X.

I've built three PCs from scratch. I've dealt with the haedaches, BSODs, driver conflicts...the whole bit. I've had enough. I want a computer that does what I want it to with a minimum of fuss. Apple gives me that. Plus they look f***in' great!!! It's a done deal as far as I'm concerned.
PCs have their place, just not on my desktop!

Jookbox
Feb 23, 2002, 06:23 PM
does anyone know who the original poster was talking to? he's basically trolling to a bunch of people that agree with him. whatever. :rolleyes:

LethalWolfe
Feb 23, 2002, 09:07 PM
Originally posted by Jookbox
does anyone know who the original poster was talking to? he's basically trolling to a bunch of people that agree with him. whatever. :rolleyes:

Yeah, I saw that but I wasn't gonna say anything ;). MontanaMacster (thread starter) needs to post his opinion in in a PC forum. "Attention PeeC whinners" well, how many PC people frequent a Mac forum? ;)


Lethal

krossfyter
Feb 24, 2002, 03:35 PM
true that lethal. got any site forum links that he may want to post his opinons?

LethalWolfe
Feb 24, 2002, 09:36 PM
Originally posted by krossfyter
true that lethal. got any site forum links that he may want to post his opinons?

How 'boutSharky Forums (http://www.sharkyforums.com) or Anandtech (http://forums.anandtech.com) . :)

Lethal

krossfyter
Feb 24, 2002, 10:38 PM
thanks lethal...


or he can go over here....pc zelots (http://www.icronticforums.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=21)

these guys are a trip.