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MacBytes
Jan 22, 2006, 10:54 PM
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Category: Mac Websites
Link: Windows XP On Intel Mac Contest: Can You Get Windows XP Dual-Booting On A Mac? (http://www.macbytes.com/link.php?sid=20060122235415)
Description:: Improbable? Most likely

Posted on MacBytes.com (http://www.macbytes.com)
Approved by Mudbug

dornoforpyros
Jan 22, 2006, 11:09 PM
ohh $100 fancy :rolleyes:

The Contest
My MacBook is shipping on the 15th of February. I told my boss that this would replace my IBM desktop and I could boot Windows XP on it. I am still confident it can be done. I am pledging $100 of my own money and offering anyone else who would like the instructions on how to Dual boot these two operating systems the ability to donate some of their money into the pot as a reward for the person / group that can make dual-booting Mac OS X and Windows XP happen on an Intel Mac. Good Luck,

Colin

Hope your boss is the forgiving type

Fiveos22
Jan 22, 2006, 11:27 PM
I'm betting that someone will have a hacked version of xp running on intel macs by the end of this week (Saturday January 28th). Any takers?

DMann
Jan 22, 2006, 11:30 PM
I'm betting that someone will have a hacked version of xp running on intel macs by the end of this week (Saturday January 28th). Any takers?

I'm in!

Sogo
Jan 22, 2006, 11:39 PM
Wow, nothing like a contest to motivate people to get XP on an apple computer. Would have been better if the prize was more, but whatever.

pvanb
Jan 22, 2006, 11:46 PM
Heh. I told my manager the same thing, but he didn't bite.

SiliconAddict
Jan 22, 2006, 11:55 PM
What we need is an official response from MS. Right now the theorizing is all over the board. Does EFI have the compatibility module included? Or is it because Apple disabled UDF or El Torito volume support?
No one has a streight answer right now. What needs to happen is more of these Macintels need to ship into the hands of geeks. Once that happens and once there is a somewhat critical mass in geekdom results will start to happen. Right now x86 iMacs are scarse. . .MacBook Pros are nonexistent. It will happen one way or antoher even if someone has to write a compatibility driver for EFI to support such volumes and then create a bootloader that passes off startup to ntldr and from there loads Windows. It will happen. I have NO doubt about it.

QCassidy352
Jan 23, 2006, 12:37 AM
What we need is an official response from MS. Right now the theorizing is all over the board. Does EFI have the compatibility module included? Or is it because Apple disabled UDF or El Torito volume support?
No one has a streight answer right now. What needs to happen is more of these Macintels need to ship into the hands of geeks. Once that happens and once there is a somewhat critical mass in geekdom results will start to happen. Right now x86 iMacs are scarse. . .MacBook Pros are nonexistent. It will happen one way or antoher even if someone has to write a compatibility driver for EFI to support such volumes and then create a bootloader that passes off startup to ntldr and from there loads Windows. It will happen. I have NO doubt about it.

I think this is dead on. It will happen, and it probably won't be very long.

Peace
Jan 23, 2006, 12:37 AM
Like I've said before..
All ya gotta do is write some code ;)

ryanw
Jan 23, 2006, 12:40 AM
What we need is an official response from MS. Right now the theorizing is all over the board. Does EFI have the compatibility module included? Or is it because Apple disabled UDF or El Torito volume support?
No one has a streight answer right now. What needs to happen is more of these Macintels need to ship into the hands of geeks. Once that happens and once there is a somewhat critical mass in geekdom results will start to happen. Right now x86 iMacs are scarse. . .MacBook Pros are nonexistent. It will happen one way or antoher even if someone has to write a compatibility driver for EFI to support such volumes and then create a bootloader that passes off startup to ntldr and from there loads Windows. It will happen. I have NO doubt about it.

Ok so MacBookPro's don't exist yet, BUT there are tons of iMacs out there that have the intel chips in em..

Nermal
Jan 23, 2006, 12:57 AM
Yes, but remember that a lot of those "tons" are in the hands of ordinary users, not "hacker geeks" :)

I think getting Linux to work will be the first step. It should be trivial to boot Windows from a Linux bootloader.

redAPPLE
Jan 23, 2006, 02:56 AM
my question is. what happens, when the inevitable happens (meaning, the macintels are running any windows variant) AND let as us mac "newbies" start plugging in their no name scanner or printer or whatever and installing drivers and everything. and it crashes "windows" or should i say the mac!?!

and would these people go complaining and say "the mac is unstable (and expensive)"?

Nermal
Jan 23, 2006, 03:17 AM
Most people wouldn't buy a Mac to use as a Windows computer. Most people who need Windows would use Virtual PC or similar, as rebooting is a huge pain. With the current version of VPC, things like printing use the native OS X driver, and I expect it to work the same way in the Intel version.

In other words, I wouldn't worry about it too much :)

Analog Kid
Jan 23, 2006, 03:29 AM
Most people wouldn't buy a Mac to use as a Windows computer. Most people who need Windows would use Virtual PC or similar, as rebooting is a huge pain. With the current version of VPC, things like printing use the native OS X driver, and I expect it to work the same way in the Intel version.
I don't know about that... I think there are at least a few people in the same position this guy seems to be in- namely they see it as a way of getting a Mac at work. I know people where I work have talked about it.

Being able to boot Windows gives everyone around you the warm fuzzies-- much more than emulation does. They know you'll be compatible with the rest of the office...

It's more about being able to run Mac OS on your Windows machine than the other way around.

SiliconAddict
Jan 23, 2006, 08:55 AM
Ok so MacBookPro's don't exist yet, BUT there are tons of iMacs out there that have the intel chips in em..

Ton is relative though. Where are those "ton o' iMacs" going?
Most geeks can, and do, build their own computers. Not so with laptops. I expect that there is going to be more work done with the laptops then the iMacs. But obviously this is just a guess.

gekko513
Jan 23, 2006, 08:57 AM
The prize is now $622 thanks to donations and it will probably continue to grow.

aranhamo
Jan 23, 2006, 08:58 AM
Most people wouldn't buy a Mac to use as a Windows computer. Most people who need Windows would use Virtual PC or similar, as rebooting is a huge pain. With the current version of VPC, things like printing use the native OS X driver, and I expect it to work the same way in the Intel version.

In other words, I wouldn't worry about it too much :)

Last I heard, Microsoft was still kind of wishy-washy on creating an Intel-Mac version of VPC. And I understand that the PowerPC version will not run under Rosetta. So VPC may not be an option for people with Intel-based Macs.

SiliconAddict
Jan 23, 2006, 08:59 AM
my question is. what happens, when the inevitable happens (meaning, the macintels are running any windows variant) AND let as us mac "newbies" start plugging in their no name scanner or printer or whatever and installing drivers and everything. and it crashes "windows" or should i say the mac!?!

and would these people go complaining and say "the mac is unstable (and expensive)"?


FUD alert orange! Repeat we are at FUD alert orange! :rolleyes:

SiliconAddict
Jan 23, 2006, 09:25 AM
I just donated $50. If it gets this project up and running I consider it well worth the money.

LimeiBook86
Jan 23, 2006, 09:29 AM
I'll soon have my iMac, I wonder if I can figure out it's secret. Haha that would be an interesting way to pay off my iMac :p hahahaha :D

SiliconAddict
Jan 23, 2006, 01:55 PM
Current Total: $878

This is after 1 day of being up. If this somehow gets to $10,000 (Doubt it.) I think there are going to be people out there who will take this very seriously. Hell a couple of Windows programmers could get into the act.

Peace
Jan 23, 2006, 02:06 PM
Current Total: $878

Hell a couple of Windows programmers could get into the act.

you're gettin warmer!!

Fiveos22
Jan 23, 2006, 05:59 PM
If this somehow gets to $10,000 (Doubt it.)

$2450...that's a helluva response so far.

truz
Jan 23, 2006, 06:09 PM
Does anyone know if anyone has tried windows xp x64?

SiliconAddict
Jan 23, 2006, 06:20 PM
$2450...that's a helluva response so far.


Yah and only on day two! :eek:

SiliconAddict
Jan 23, 2006, 06:21 PM
Does anyone know if anyone has tried windows xp x64?


Won't work since the Core Duos are 32-bit chips.

sjk
Jan 23, 2006, 11:31 PM
I always think about Bigweld Corporation from Robots whenever the topic of Apple and upgrades comes up.

SiliconAddict
Jan 23, 2006, 11:37 PM
Update: $2773 :D Expect $3,000 tomorrow. :eek:

GorillaPaws
Jan 24, 2006, 12:31 AM
Delicious Monster gave a cool grand to the cause (that's an awesome company IMO). It's a shame that I've got no use for their product as it looks REALLY good. I'm actually suprised that there aren't even bigger donations from even bigger companies. I'm not sure how many hits the website is getting daily, but from an advertising perspective, it's pretty cheap (kinda reminds me of that guy who was selling 1,000,000 pixels for a $1,000,000).

ITASOR
Jan 24, 2006, 09:47 AM
$3338 :eek:

balamw
Jan 24, 2006, 12:01 PM
It's over $4K now. :eek:

I donated $25 myself, though I wonder if some folks might be inclined not to discuss their progress with others as freely now that there is a sizable prize out there to be had.

The flip side of that is that if there is code to be written (as there appears to be) there is now more incentive to do so.

B

SiliconAddict
Jan 24, 2006, 01:10 PM
Wait. Just wait. $10,000 in 2 weeks. Maybe less. :D :eek:

Peace
Jan 24, 2006, 01:15 PM
Wait. Just wait. $10,000 in 2 weeks. Maybe less. :D :eek:

Reply deleted by Peace for self-preservation

stoid
Jan 24, 2006, 01:20 PM
The last time I remember an internet $$ collection happening in regards to Apple, it was that little kid who wanted to smash an iPod. IIRC, it took a few weeks for him to raise only a couple meager hundred, only to make the most pathetic video ever. There is clearly far more interest in using Apple's products as opposed to destroying them.

SiliconAddict
Jan 24, 2006, 01:47 PM
deleted by Peace for self-preservation

:eek:

Peace
Jan 24, 2006, 02:01 PM
:eek:


hehehe..I deleted my reply ;)

SiliconAddict
Jan 25, 2006, 12:23 AM
Update:
$5485

Halfway there! :D

asthma
Jan 25, 2006, 11:51 AM
Won't work since the Core Duos are 32-bit chips.

this is probably a stupid question but is it possible to use xp64-bit and somehow dumb down the bit-rate of the os to 32-bit and the outcome would be a 32-bit os with EFI? the answer is probably no you cant slow down the bit-rate, if so could someone explain why? thank you for reading.

Asthma

majorp
Jan 31, 2006, 05:43 PM
If this somehow gets to $10,000 (Doubt it.) I think there are going to be people out there who will take this very seriously. Hell a couple of Windows programmers could get into the act.

Current Total: $9569
http://windowsxp.onmac.net/The%20Contest.html

:eek: not too long now!

iJon
Feb 2, 2006, 07:22 PM
Has anyone seen this floating around. I found this on a torrent site and decided to give it a read. I actually have every component you need to try it, but an iMac instead of the MacBook (wouldn't think it would matter).

On the other hand I have a feeling if this worked it would have already been posted somewhere on some web page out there.

Dual-Booting Windows XP on a MacBook

The Problems

* Macintosh uses a different MBR
* MacBooks use EFI, XP x86 uses BIOS
* The modified Darwin Bootloader is made for EFI w/ EFI supporting operating systems

OK… So step by step.

Where is the BIOS used? For what? How?

The OS sends low-level calls to the BIOS that tell it exactly how to deal with the hardware. Now I don’t have the Windows XP source code at hand.. so all I can tell you for a fact is that NTLDR uses it to access the drive at first to boot Windows, and Windows uses it at *least* once more when it is mounting the drives.

The Required Programs and Stuff

* Acronis Disk Director Bootable CD
* Acronis True Image
* Another computer with a clean install of XP. No programs installed at all.
* A MacBook obviously!
* A Windows Vista DVD (not for installation purposes!)
* Vista boot files
* bcdedit.exe
* BCDedit restore file

Most of the problems can be theoretically quickly dealt with.

1. Using the Bootable Acronis Disk Director CD on the MacBook, shrink the Mac partition. Create a new partition of type NTFS/HPFS in the remaining space.
2. Setup a clean version of XP on a PC.
3. Extract Boot.7z to the root drive of your XP installation.. So you have C:\Boot\
4. Copy bcdedit.exe to the root drive of your XP installation. C:\BCDedit.exe
5. Copy MacBook.bcd to the root drive of your XP installation
6. Use sysprep to “reseal” your XP install and remove all hardware info from the setup (thanks Kristan for pointing that out!).
7. Use Acronis TrueImage CD to make an image of your XP install.
8. Use the bootable Acronis True Image CD to recreate the image on the partition you just made on your MacBook.
9. Use the Bootable Vista DVD to boot on the MacBook.
10. Select “Repair Startup” -> Next -> CMD -> Run too.
11. Browse to drive C:\Boot (which is the partition you created on the MacBook and then extracted the Acronis TrueImage file to). (cd C:\boot)
12. Run “fixntfs.exe -lh” without the quotes
13. Browse back to drive C:\ (cd \)
14. Run “bcdedit.exe /import MacBook.bcd” without the quotes
15. Eject the CD and restart.
16. In Mac now, hack the Darwin Bootloader to add another entry that chainloads Drive(0) Partition(2). With GRUB it would look something like this… I’m not sure if Darwin is the same, but this step is very simple, and has nothing to do with EFI.
title Windows XP
rootnoverify (hd0,1)
chainloader +1

17. Restart
18. By selecting “Windows XP” on the Darwin Bootloader you should be chainloaded to the Vista bootloader, which should in turn boot the entry “NeoSmart Windows XP”
19. If everything has gone well, XP will boot!!

jon

jhu
Feb 2, 2006, 07:27 PM
this is probably a stupid question but is it possible to use xp64-bit and somehow dumb down the bit-rate of the os to 32-bit and the outcome would be a 32-bit os with EFI? the answer is probably no you cant slow down the bit-rate, if so could someone explain why? thank you for reading.

Asthma

no. the question doesn't make much sense.

Fiveos22
Feb 8, 2006, 11:57 AM
Update: Over $10k.

And a quick question: does the WINE announcement today count towards this contest? I don't think it does, but then again WINE is not exactly emulation software.