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MacBytes
Jan 23, 2006, 01:50 AM
http://www.macbytes.com/images/bytessig.gif (http://www.macbytes.com)

Category: Opinion/Interviews
Link: iWeb fails the test (http://www.macbytes.com/link.php?sid=20060123025006)
Description:: Dan Pourhadi takes a look at iWeb, and opines that its unbelievably simplicity will eventually put writers like him out of business.

Posted on MacBytes.com (http://www.macbytes.com)
Approved by Mudbug

solvs
Jan 23, 2006, 02:41 AM
Yes, he was being facetious.

Analog Kid
Jan 23, 2006, 03:18 AM
He put all this effort into making an article that was reasonably entertaining, and then you get down to the comment section and realize we really are living in a world of idiots...

Personally I found iWeb to be rather hard to use-- mainly because I kept trying to find a way out of the little box they put me in. That's probably why iWeb wasn't made for me-- or at least not yet. Maybe iWeb 2 will give me a little more flexibility and a chance to influence the design of my site.

It looks like a great tool for vanity websites though. It's 80% of the way to what I'd want to just maintain a site for friends and family, for example. The main problem is being forced to stay within the template.

Reading the comments this guy picked up though makes me realize how many people really want to have everything hand fed to them and how few people can really handle subtlety... Kinda makes it clear why templates are such a hit.

Mord
Jan 23, 2006, 03:28 AM
maybe, just maybe iweb is not aimed at him.

bousozoku
Jan 23, 2006, 03:31 AM
...
Personally I found iWeb to be rather hard to use-- mainly because I kept trying to find a way out of the little box they put me in. That's probably why iWeb wasn't made for me-- or at least not yet. Maybe iWeb 2 will give me a little more flexibility and a chance to influence the design of my site.
...

I was trying Sandvox from Karelia and felt the same way. It's too easy but much more powerful than going through the constrictive online builders that Yahoo! and MSN have.

SPUY767
Jan 23, 2006, 04:50 AM
I'd start a website with this and when I got something I liked the look of, I'd take it into Dreamweaver or GoLive to finish it off and customize it.

iJaz
Jan 23, 2006, 05:02 AM
Sounds like a great app, I know how to use Dreamweaver, but I think it takes too long time.

MarcelV
Jan 23, 2006, 05:29 AM
This was an hilarious article. Great write. iWork is a good 1.0 version. Some things may be added, like sub pages for photo's. That will make the loading experience at the browser much better, while the slide show will contain all photo's on the sub pages. And the photo's used by the pages should be a 'thumbnail' from the one used by the slideshow. This also will speed up the load of the pages. But it's a great and reasonable stable app. and a very good tool for anyone to make great looking web sites to show their work to friends and family. Kudo's to Apple on this one.

Now just waiting on third parties to create much more templates for iWeb!

C00rDiNaT0r
Jan 23, 2006, 07:50 AM
I just bought iLife '06 for $40 with student discount. :cool: Please let me know if you can find a better deal (genuine & unused) so I can buy it and give to my girl friend as a gift. :D

iWeb is a very nice program that is very easy to use. Even my mom who doesn't really know how to type could get a blog up and running in about 10 minutes. But, I was a bit disappointed when I looked at the source code of the pages... There are just too many div tags. They don't make that much sense to me and I don't like that. I know enough HTML and CSS to write the same pages (well, a page with pictures and texts put into table cells, not divs) with much shorter codes.

I just wish iWeb has a "backdoor" (like a pure text edit mode) for the people who know how to write websites by hand, so we can look at the code and take out the unnecessary stuffs, or correct things that we think does not look right. That way, the webpages can load a bit faster. But other than that, I like iWeb very much and would recommend it to everyone who are not using it at work. :)

Photorun
Jan 23, 2006, 08:02 AM
maybe, just maybe iweb is not aimed at him.

Ummm,

1. did you read the article?
2. did you get it was actually humor?

SiliconAddict
Jan 23, 2006, 08:17 AM
Please people. Read the article and "feel" the tone before making a comment. :o

Jay42
Jan 23, 2006, 08:20 AM
I just wish iWeb has a "backdoor" (like a pure text edit mode) for the people who know how to write websites by hand, so we can look at the code and take out the unnecessary stuffs, or correct things that we think does not look right. That way, the webpages can load a bit faster. But other than that, I like iWeb very much and would recommend it to everyone who are not using it at work. :)

I know what you're saying, but Apple doesn't even want the word "code" near the end user. This is not the app you pick to write the next Google killer, but its certainly convenient for family-type sites. Plus, more .Mac subscribers.

angelwatt
Jan 23, 2006, 08:22 AM
He put all this effort into making an article that was reasonably entertaining, and then you get down to the comment section and realize we really are living in a world of idiots...

Thank goodness someone else noticed, I just wanted to rip into the webpage and grab the people that wrote those comments and smack some sense into them.

otter-boy
Jan 23, 2006, 08:41 AM
But, I was a bit disappointed when I looked at the source code of the pages... There are just too many div tags. They don't make that much sense to me and I don't like that. I know enough HTML and CSS to write the same pages (well, a page with pictures and texts put into table cells, not divs) with much shorter codes.

Tables instead of divs for page layout? :eek:

Say it aint so.

I'm betting actually that there are a lot of divs to help compatibility with IE. Just to center a div in IE, you often have to enclose that div in another centered div.

Since these web page layout programs (iWeb, GoLive, Dreamweaver) cannot discern the meaning of a piece of content or its logical connections to other page content, they often enclose each piece (sections, paragraphs, pictures, etc.) in divs. The nice thing about divs though is that they make restyling pages with CSS very easy.

MacBandit
Jan 23, 2006, 08:44 AM
This was an hilarious article. Great write. iWork is a good 1.0 version. Some things may be added, like sub pages for photo's. That will make the loading experience at the browser much better, while the slide show will contain all photo's on the sub pages. And the photo's used by the pages should be a 'thumbnail' from the one used by the slideshow. This also will speed up the load of the pages. But it's a great and reasonable stable app. and a very good tool for anyone to make great looking web sites to show their work to friends and family. Kudo's to Apple on this one.

Now just waiting on third parties to create much more templates for iWeb!


You can do that with it right now. Also you can erase everything and a template and make up a page however you like with quite a bit of options. When I first dove into it it seemed very limited but then I learned that some of the options available aren't even presented to you until you are building a specific part of a page. Image options aren't available unless you are highlighting a image frame and text options aren't available unless you are highlighting a text box, etc.. This is very very Apple and was very much needed in the web development world. Finally a program for the rest of us that have a bit of web knowledge but neither the time nor the patience to build a truly great page from the ground up.

Savoy
Jan 23, 2006, 08:49 AM
....From what I'm hearing, no. It would be nice to have a small, cheap app that does ONLY the task of making Word's "HTML" export (I quote the menu action, only, because any idiot can see that HTML is NOT what gets exported). Dreamweaver has of course included this feature for years...but is it really worth $X00.00?? I would have hoped that iWeb might include this feature. Sigh, maybe some day.

MacBandit
Jan 23, 2006, 08:55 AM
....From what I'm hearing, no. It would be nice to have a small, cheap app that does ONLY the task of making Word's "HTML" export (I quote the menu action, only, because any idiot can see that HTML is NOT what gets exported). Dreamweaver has of course included this feature for years...but is it really worth $X00.00?? I would have hoped that iWeb might include this feature. Sigh, maybe some day.


What exactly are you wanting?

Savoy
Jan 23, 2006, 09:06 AM
What exactly are you wanting?

Sorry. I want iWeb to strip crap code from Word HTML exports.

(Quod erat scriptandum in Titulus)

Jodeo
Jan 23, 2006, 09:10 AM
Apple should link to this review from their News page...

iWeb Fails The Test
Why would a MacAddict like Dan Pourhadi call
iWeb a "piece of crap?" His shocking review
shows iWeb is indeed fertile ground for anyone
wanting to get a site on the web. [Jan. 23, 2006]

Axes and Macs
Run entirely with Macs, the New York Guitar
Festival brings together some of the world’s
finest guitarists for over three weeks of
performances all over Manhattan. [Jan 20, 2006]

Home Sweet Home
Dario Gildrie and his company, Leaping Waters, post-
produce DIY’s “Barkitecture” and Turner South’s
“Yokel” in the comfort of their own homes, using
Final Cut Pro on their Macs. [Jan 20, 2006]

Yvan256
Jan 23, 2006, 09:11 AM
I was a bit disappointed when I looked at the source code of the pages... There are just too many div tags. They don't make that much sense to me and I don't like that. I know enough HTML and CSS to write the same pages (well, a page with pictures and texts put into table cells, not divs) with much shorter codes.

Except that a mess of DIVs is better than TABLEs... Tables should only be used when you have data to display. Don't confuse structure with presentation.

XHTML+CSS is the right way to do it. Not HTML+Tables.

....From what I'm hearing, no. It would be nice to have a small, cheap app that does ONLY the task of making Word's "HTML" export (I quote the menu action, only, because any idiot can see that HTML is NOT what gets exported). Dreamweaver has of course included this feature for years...but is it really worth $X00.00?? I would have hoped that iWeb might include this feature. Sigh, maybe some day.

Sorry, but MS-Word isn't meant to be a web publishing tool. Why don't you work directly in iWeb instead? Or at the very least, try and copy/paste content between the two programs instead of exporting to "HTML" with Word.

24C
Jan 23, 2006, 09:26 AM
He put all this effort into making an article that was reasonably entertaining, and then you get down to the comment section and realize we really are living in a world of idiots...
Not everybody is, but Chuck Wonkers definitely is and his comments absolutely priceless...LOL

Savoy
Jan 23, 2006, 10:52 AM
Sorry, but MS-Word isn't meant to be a web publishing tool. Why don't you work directly in iWeb instead?

Oh. Thanks for the tip. :rolleyes:

See, in some fields, most work gets done in Word. Having a quick and easy way to web publish would be nice. Truth to tell, Word should output HTML better than it does. Barring that, though, it would be nice if someone would implement a code stripping feature (such as what Dreamweaver already has) in an inexpensive application.

macFanDave
Jan 23, 2006, 11:34 AM
but after I read it, it was a nice praise of iWeb. His problem was that his role of helping computer-illiterate use complex web building apps was in danger.

Sure, the money is nice, but having to hold the hands of "dummies" gets both boring and frustrating. Sometimes the "dummies" innocently point out serious shortcomings of the program. At that point, it's hard to convince yourself that you are helping the "dummies", but you are actually pimping the software written by the true dummies!

TomSmithMacEd
Jan 23, 2006, 12:15 PM
Does anyone know if you can host your iWeb pages on other services other than .mac???

Yvan256
Jan 23, 2006, 12:15 PM
Oh. Thanks for the tip. :rolleyes:

Anytime! ;)


See, in some fields, most work gets done in Word. Having a quick and easy way to web publish would be nice. Truth to tell, Word should output HTML better than it does. Barring that, though, it would be nice if someone would implement a code stripping feature (such as what Dreamweaver already has) in an inexpensive application.

Isn't there options when exporting to HTML? No "Basic HTML 3.2" export option? No "disable CSS" option? That would cut down on the amount of... erm... "HTML". :cool:

Yvan256
Jan 23, 2006, 12:18 PM
Does anyone know if you can host your iWeb pages on other services other than .mac???

From what I've read, you can "publish to your hard disk". You can then upload your files via FTP.

Of course, it makes keeping your on-line website up-to-date a bit more complicated...

Anyone knows if you can get a .Mac account but keep your domain name? (i.e. I'd switch to .Mac if I could continue to use yvan256.net for my website).

wordmunger
Jan 23, 2006, 12:24 PM
if you can get a .Mac account but keep your domain name? (i.e. I'd switch to .Mac if I could continue to use yvan256.net for my website).

Sure. You just need to have your domain registrar point the domain to your .mac account.

Now, does anyone know if .mac mail still requires that the reply-to address be your .mac address? If I could keep my old .com e-mail address, that might convince me to sign up again.

-- well, that and being able to host a wordpress blog on .mac.

Glenn Wolsey
Jan 23, 2006, 07:42 PM
Not many realise it, but it was an excellent article, by an amazing writer!

Savoy
Jan 23, 2006, 09:57 PM
Apparently, one can strip crap code from Word using http://mac.softpedia.com/get/HTML-Tools/HTML-Tidy.shtml.

OK, Back to iWeb. ;)

virus1
Jan 23, 2006, 10:06 PM
Not many realise it, but it was an excellent article, by an amazing writer!
uhh.. who didn't realize it?

everybody thinks they are so smart because they read between the lines and figured out he was being a little sarcastic.. jesus.

DrNeroCF
Jan 23, 2006, 10:41 PM
Ya know, it's funny... I really liked the Geocities editor back in the day... I shot up an image, then I dragged said image onto the page. None of that, add layer, drag stuff in it crap like FrontPage. I loooooath FrontPage. It took me forever to figure out how to make columns, and I couldn't do it again for someone else... Deamweaver was much easier, but that's probably because I know how to use Flash so well...

Did it really take them that long to make an easy-to-use web publishing program?

Oh, and .mac should come with iLife, but everyone's already said that...

nagromme
Jan 23, 2006, 11:04 PM
Sorry. I want iWeb to strip crap code from Word HTML exports.

(Quod erat scriptandum in Titulus)
TextEdit's ability to import Word documents has improved a lot (tables are now supported)--and it can export HTML. That's another option to try maybe. And free :)

sjk
Jan 24, 2006, 04:17 PM
TextEdit's ability to import Word documents has improved a lot (tables are now supported)--and it can export HTML.I think Savoy wants to import exported Word HTML and clean it up. Maybe a tool like HTML Optimizer (not free) would do that?