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MacBytes
Jan 23, 2006, 05:07 PM
http://www.macbytes.com/images/bytessig.gif (http://www.macbytes.com)

Category: Apple Software
Link: Apple's iWork emerges as rival to Microsoft Office (http://www.macbytes.com/link.php?sid=20060123180753)
Description:: Corel bills its WordPerfect Office software as "the world's leading alternative to Microsoft Office." But when it comes to U.S. retail sales, Corel lost the No. 2 spot in 2005 to a somewhat unlikely competitor: Apple Computer's iWork.

Posted on MacBytes.com (http://www.macbytes.com)
Approved by Mudbug

PlaceofDis
Jan 23, 2006, 05:11 PM
somewhat surprising to say the least, given the limited functionality of Pages. i still use Office for the Mac and i don't mind it one bit. i don't know if i could switch over to pages permanently. Keynote though is vastly better than Powerpoint in my opinion.

maya
Jan 23, 2006, 05:15 PM
somewhat surprising to say the least, given the limited functionality of Pages. i still use Office for the Mac and i don't mind it one bit. i don't know if i could switch over to pages permanently. Keynote though is vastly better than Powerpoint in my opinion.

Give it some time, MS Office has been in development for how many years? Right that being said, iWork will catch up soon enough. ;) :)

Keynote overtakes PowerPoint

Pages 3.0 will over take Word by about 50%.....here is hoping. :)

PlaceofDis
Jan 23, 2006, 05:17 PM
Give it some time, MS Office has been in development for how many years? Right that being said, iWork will catch up soon enough. ;) :)

Keynote overtakes PowerPoint

Pages 3.0 will over take Word by about 50%.....here is hoping. :)

oh i don't doubt that it has potential. Pages will grow on me i'm sure. but not as of yet. i have to throughly go through the 2.0 release of it still and i might come around to it. but perhaps a few more years in development will see it as a great alternative. but just not yet i don't think.

i am glad that iWork is doing as well as it is. and i hope by this time next year improvements have been made as well as another app added in. if not more. ;)

Mord
Jan 23, 2006, 05:20 PM
my love of pages and keynote it beyond words, no pun intended, seriously, word is cluttered and slow, whereas pages lets me do what i want how i want it easily.

Peace
Jan 23, 2006, 05:25 PM
All they need is a good spreadsheet and database..

superleccy
Jan 23, 2006, 05:35 PM
All they need is a good spreadsheet and database..

Just a spreadsheet would be nice, I can live without a Database.

However, although it's uneasy for me to say this, Apple will have a tough job beating Excel.

Regards
Superleccy

plastique45
Jan 23, 2006, 05:35 PM
I agree that keynote is better than Powerpoint, but I don't think that page can rival word at all. Pages is more an indesign type of application. Also, they have no accounting/Excel killer-app.

iWork is really geared towards presentations of every kind and in that respect it's great.

EGT
Jan 23, 2006, 05:36 PM
my love of pages and keynote it beyond words, no pun intended, seriously, word is cluttered and slow, whereas pages lets me do what i want how i want it easily.

Pages and Keynote are both perfect for my needs. I'm still getting use to them because I only recently bought iWork with iLife '06 just to see what they're like in comparison to Office for Mac. Verdict so far; iWork is great!

Word is cluttered and slow compared to Pages but it has a lot of good features that Pages doesn't.

I'm definitely sticking with iWork for a while though. It's just nice to use. :)

stoid
Jan 23, 2006, 05:39 PM
Well, I guess that just shows how pathetically other products are selling if iWork is number 2. :p

Still good news though!

balamw
Jan 23, 2006, 05:39 PM
All they need is a good spreadsheet and database..
Database: Here's what I would think would be a good Access killer for most users. Make a nice web front end to a SQL server on .Mac with local caching of tables. That way you could access your databases from anywhere, including your iWeb sites...

Spreadsheets: It is kinda funny that Excel started its life as a Mac only app. I don't think anyone will be knocking it off its pedestal any time soon. Spreadsheets are weird though. Many people use Excel for tasks that would be better suited for a database, other kinds of analysis programs, or can easily be handled with a tables plugin as exists in iWork '06. Is it really a good idea to encourage people to do everything with a spreadsheet? ;)

B

Fiveos22
Jan 23, 2006, 05:40 PM
"When you add all of them up we stand strong to our claim of being the leading alternative," said Richard Carriere, general manager of Corel's Office Productivity unit. That said, having a major presence at retailers is important, he added.

"It's a small fraction of the market, Carriere said, adding: "It's very important for showcasing our product and we are present in all the major outlets."

Stammer, stammer, backtrack, stammer. Retail is a small fraction of the market, eh? Its a shame to lose a competitor to MS, but if you aren't providing a product that people want...then what are you doing?

redAPPLE
Jan 23, 2006, 06:15 PM
isn't filemaker a distant cousin of Apple? or an estranged sister?

i think excel is bloated. i think word is bloated. the only reason i use word when i open a word document. come to think of it, i don't even write .doc files.

nagromme
Jan 23, 2006, 06:16 PM
Pages can never be a "rival" of Word in a sense: it's not the same KIND of program, nor does it try to be.

If what you need is Word, it's the better program. For others' Pages is the better choice.

But iWork can take sales away from Office as people realize there's a better choice for them. I suspect there are a LOT of people who value style and ease over the massive list of options found in Word.

bousozoku
Jan 23, 2006, 06:21 PM
All they need is a good spreadsheet and database..

They might as well buy Quattro Pro from Corel, who bought it from Borland, and give it a face lift, since Corel isn't doing much with it. :D

They should also be providing a light version of FileMaker to complete the suite.

AvSRoCkCO1067
Jan 23, 2006, 06:33 PM
And here I am, thinking that iWork sold nothing over the past year...

a 2.7% market gain in a year. 0-2.7%. Wow.

Especially considering iWork is only sold for Apple Computers. There are a few reasons for this, however. For one, iWork is undoubtedly worth 79 bucks - iLife is even more of a steal at 79 bucks (iPhoto alone could be sold for 79 dollars and sell decently!)

Additionally, Keynote is far superior to PowerPoint, especially in terms of animations. Pages, however, is more of a replacement of Publisher, not Word - it needs to incorporate a grammar check, auto save, and...as much as I hate to say this...toolbars. Toolbars are what make Word so efficient; the 'Inspector' is nice for a publisher/iWeb type of application...not an office one.

Stella
Jan 23, 2006, 06:34 PM
Apple should have integrated Core Data with iWork - that is perfectly good for basic database requirements.

iMeowbot
Jan 23, 2006, 06:49 PM
isn't filemaker a distant cousin of Apple? or an estranged sister?
Wholly owned subsidiary. Apple talked years and years ago about taking Claris public, but it never happened. Sales are small enough that they don't even get their own line item in Apple financial reports, instead they're lumped in with "other". The other long term embarrassment is that FileMaker is still offered on Windows.

jholzner
Jan 23, 2006, 06:53 PM
Well, I guess that just shows how pathetically other products are selling if iWork is number 2. :p

Still good news though!

Especially considering it is only avaialbe on Macs running Mac OS X. iWork will never overtake Office or even come close as long as it is Mac only. I don't mean to say they should release it for Windows but it is only availbe on a platform with a tiny marketshare. If it does overtake Office on the Mac MS will just can Office for Mac and they everyone will complain.

macidiot
Jan 23, 2006, 06:53 PM
All they need is a good spreadsheet and database..


Well the database part is available. Its called Filemaker.

jholzner
Jan 23, 2006, 06:54 PM
Wholly owned subsidiary. Apple talked years and years ago about taking Claris public, but it never happened. Sales are small enough that they don't even get their own line item in Apple financial reports, instead they're lumped in with "other". The other long term embarrassment is that FileMaker is still offered on Windows.

My guess is that Apple will eventually just absorbe FileMaker Inc.

looklost
Jan 23, 2006, 06:58 PM
I know the article is about sales but the numbers my be misleading. No mention of OpenOffice (http://www.openoffice.org/), don't forget about the people who didn't buy either product but downloaded the FREE OpenOffice (http://www.openoffice.org/) suite for their needs.

Superdrive
Jan 23, 2006, 06:59 PM
But....
Pages is far from a word processor. The day they can beat out Word, or at least come close, will be the next time I buy iWork. The upgrades in Keynote alone are not enough to get me to upgrade.

I sincerely hope that iWork does not rival Office in the near future. All we need is another app by MS killed.

macidiot
Jan 23, 2006, 06:59 PM
Wholly owned subsidiary. Apple talked years and years ago about taking Claris public, but it never happened. Sales are small enough that they don't even get their own line item in Apple financial reports, instead they're lumped in with "other". The other long term embarrassment is that FileMaker is still offered on Windows.


Filemaker is very popular in corporate environments. It competes head to head with Access. And often wins.

As for being offered on windows being embarassing, I'd hardly call it that. It would be useless to business without cross platform availability. In fact a windows version is critical. And has always been.

Besides, is the fact that there are versions of Quicktime and iTunes for windows a "long term embarassment?"

sigamy
Jan 23, 2006, 07:58 PM
I really think Apple's aggressive pricing on iWork is a big reason for the #2 position. Wasn't Keynote at least $99 when it was released a few years back?

Say what you will about Pages--some love it, some hate it--and it is not a direct competitor to MS Word but to get both Pages and Keynote for $79 is a pretty good deal compared to MS Office.

Apple really should add a simple spreadsheet app, a scaled down version of FileMaker and a drawing app. They can then do an iWork Pro bundle for $149 or $199.

bousozoku
Jan 23, 2006, 08:13 PM
Even Apple haven't claimed that since the 1990s. Quite telling is that even then, they were comparing themselves against a SOHO product when the product family's capabilities are much higher end than that.
...

About FileMaker, Inc.
FileMaker Pro is used by millions of small businesses worldwide to manage people, projects, images, assets and other information. In addition to being the number one-selling easy-to-use database software, the award-winning FileMaker product line also includes low-cost Applications that automate basic business tasks, ready-to-use Starter Solutions for businesses, and tools to create and share solutions from the desktop to the web. FileMaker, Inc. is a subsidiary of Apple Computer, Inc.


This quote was pulled from a random press release. It's part of every press release.

macidiot
Jan 23, 2006, 08:32 PM
Even Apple haven't claimed that since the 1990s. Quite telling is that even then, they were comparing themselves against a SOHO product when the product family's capabilities are much higher end than that.


Perhaps, but I know plenty of corporations that use Filemaker. Its usually departmental, but then a lot of Access is too. And having dealt with many Apple rep's in a corporate environment in the past, I can assure you that filemaker was not positioned or sold as a "soho" product, at least to me. Maybe when it first came out, but once it went fully relational and added server capabilities, it was positioned against Access. Then again, I have no "soho" experience with filemaker, only having dealt with it in a corporate situation.


A Windows client is fine, but he development and server products are failing to pull their weight as hardware sales drivers like other Apple high end software. This is nothing more than legacy Claris baggage.

Yes, but then again, small corporate databases could be considered legacy baggage. Its not like that market is growing much.


The Apple strategy for high end software has long been to acquire and make it run only on their hardware (see Final Cut, Logic. etc.) iTunes is a freebie squarely aimed at promoting Apple hardware (iPod) sales, and QuickTime is low end shareware. They aren't even in the same league.

I'm not sure I would consider Filemaker high end, but again, filemaker would have been dead a long time ago if it wasn't crossplatform. The strategy of mac-only simply would not work in this case. And Apple's strategy has not been exemplified by fcp. That was a surprise when it happened. It may be Apple's strategy now (which I don't think is the case at all), but it was not when Filemaker was created.

Either way, it explains why Filemaker is a separate company, called Filemaker, Inc. It is wholly owned by Apple, but is somewhat independant. And frankly, needs to be, since most corporations don't want to have anything to do with Apple. And considering the database market is largely stagnant, and has been for years, I would think that is the main reason Apple doesn't expend very much in the way of resources. Besides, Apple has largely abandoned the corporate market. The only somewhat successful product was Filemaker. Which is why its still around. I guess that makes it legacy, but I don't think its as negative as you think.

I'm guessing that you think they should just kill Filemaker? If so, what would be the point of that? Apple spends very little on it, and it makes money. So what's the problem. Other than filemaker not being "sexy" and for "creative professionals." I guess that's the embarassing part?

And I'd hardly call quicktime low end shareware. Maybe low level. Its a core technology for Apple. And without quicktime, iPods, itunes and the itms would be crippled. Quicktime is a critical technology for Apple. And critical part of making quicktime successful is having a windows version. Honestly, given the choice between killing quicktime or fcp or logic, Apple would keep quicktime and kill the others. And they wouldn't think twice about it.

Fiveos22
Jan 23, 2006, 08:39 PM
Apple should have integrated Core Data with iWork - that is perfectly good for basic database requirements.

I know about Core Image, Core Audio, Core Midi, what is this core data? Or are you referring to the fact that addressbook can be accessed from all over the place?

Filemaker is very popular in corporate environments. It competes head to head with Access. And often wins.

I don't know how true that statement is, but I am a fan of it. We use it for keeping track of solutions that we've made or cataloged in our lab over the last 30 years. It is fast, handy, and tidy. I've not taken the time to explore Filemaker's other features (we have v. 6 or 7 right now) but I'm sure they're worthwhile.

Today I actually started thinking about creating a second Filemaker database to keep track of our chemical inventory (which is currently an uncataloged collection of possibly hazardous materials).

To make a long story short, if Apple owns Filemaker, then they are already in control of a very strong database software. A little rebranding and integration with iWork apps and then Apple may be able to strike a blow at MS.

macidiot
Jan 23, 2006, 08:39 PM
Even Apple haven't claimed that since the 1990s. Quite telling is that even then, they were comparing themselves against a SOHO product when the product family's capabilities are much higher end than that.


From Filemaker's website:

Customers: More than 10 million units of FileMaker software have been sold to customers around the world. Customers include individuals and small businesses everywhere, 49 of the top 50 universities in the U.S., the top 250 U.S. school districts, and 70 of the Fortune 100 companies.

Please note "70 of the Fortune 100 companies."

Fiveos22
Jan 23, 2006, 08:46 PM
From Filemaker's website:

Customers: More than 10 million units of FileMaker software have been sold to customers around the world. Customers include individuals and small businesses everywhere, 49 of the top 50 universities in the U.S., the top 250 U.S. school districts, and 70 of the Fortune 100 companies.

Please note "70 of the Fortune 100 companies."

True,

BUT, I'm at one of those "49 of the top 50 universities" and even use Filemaker at my university job, but that does not mean it is ubiquitous at those institutions...nor does it mean that its even common at those places. It is simply "used there"...nothing more.

simX
Jan 23, 2006, 09:00 PM
I know about Core Image, Core Audio, Core Midi, what is this core data? Or are you referring to the fact that addressbook can be accessed from all over the place?

It's new in Tiger. It's basically Apple's object that allows easy and fast access to an SQL backend, which is also included with Mac OS X. It's similar to all the other Core technologies, only it speeds up and provides a standard object for accessing a database.

Of course, this doesn't mean it has any interface -- that needs to be created. But it is a promising back-end to future apps that would benefit from the use of an internal database.

macidiot
Jan 23, 2006, 09:08 PM
True,

BUT, I'm at one of those "49 of the top 50 universities" and even use Filemaker at my university job, but that does not mean it is ubiquitous at those institutions...nor does it mean that its even common at those places. It is simply "used there"...nothing more.


Yes, its hard to say what the use is. And for that matter, what criteria they used to decide what the top 50 universities are. But like I said, its a lot of departmental use. Which is basically what Access is for.

Where I've seen it used, its often used for a specific database solution. And Access is often used by the same client. Along with oracle, sap, or whatever they are using for high end databases.

In the cases I've seen, small departments will use filemaker, with little interdepartmental interaction. However, overall usage is pretty high, at least for an Apple product. At least in my case, I've seen 500+ licenses of Filemaker at a company. Does that compare to Access overall? No. But that wasn't my point. The point was that Filemaker competes directly with Access in the corporate space. And it does fairly well, considering Access is bundled with Office. The fact that it sells at all means that it was considered a compelling choice over a free Access. Which sounds like a win to me.

But the point was that Filemaker is a fine database product. Actually much more complete and far better than either pages or keynote.

DrNeroCF
Jan 23, 2006, 10:25 PM
Word is version, what now? 11... 12? Pages is 2? I personally prefer pages, but I only use it for simple things like taking notes and writing papers (and I assume that 99% of Word users do the same.

I sure hope that M$ isn't counting all those copies on school and work computers that are getting shoved down the users' throats.

What's that? TextEdit can open doc files? :cool:

solvs
Jan 23, 2006, 10:50 PM
Am I the only one who uses TextEdit? I guess I don't need Word. Pages is great for simple page layout stuff, and now that it can do speadsheets and charts, albeit not that great from what I've seen, I don't need Office at all. Works ok for me. But that's just me.

alamar
Jan 24, 2006, 01:32 AM
Give it some time, MS Office has been in development for how many years? Right that being said, iWork will catch up soon enough. ;) :)

Keynote overtakes PowerPoint

Pages 3.0 will over take Word by about 50%.....here is hoping. :)

Office has been in development so long that it has about 1000 features turned on by default that nobody wants turned on, yet people still need it so badly that they buy it.

Honestly, I can not see buying iWork instead of Office. Keynotes is nice...i admit...but office is a nessisity. Not that i'd buy office if I needed to, but I'd get my hands on it somehow. :)

24C
Jan 24, 2006, 04:09 AM
isn't filemaker a distant cousin of Apple? or an estranged sister?...snip...
Definitely part of the family then :)
I'd like an update to the ClarisWorks database, I know folks that have been using the same database since it came on floppy discs for a LCII. It's had fields updated, new mail merges created and now they're running AppleWorks 6.2.x, yet it's pretty clunky on OSX.

BenRoethig
Jan 24, 2006, 06:50 AM
If iWork was just marketed as a light creative suite, it'd be fine. However, it's be touted by Apple as the Appleworks replacement and by the Anti-Microsoft crowd as the MS office slayer. Neither of which it does very well. Apple should have kept Appleworks, but it just wasn't cool enough for them to update.

wrldwzrd89
Jan 24, 2006, 08:34 AM
Am I the only one who uses TextEdit? I guess I don't need Word. Pages is great for simple page layout stuff, and now that it can do speadsheets and charts, albeit not that great from what I've seen, I don't need Office at all. Works ok for me. But that's just me.
I'm a heavy TextEdit user myself. I've hardly ever had to open Pages, and haven't really used it or Keynote much. I like Keynote, though, and find the interface far better than PowerPoint.