Selling Macintosh Accessory Business!

[MacEffects]

Hello Everyone... I am selling my MacEffects business as I am a single parent, and due to some recent financial misfortune, I have to sell off my Macintosh business venture, to pay off the loan I took out to begin the project. Now, I have about an $9,200 loan (excluding personal money about $3,500 prior to the load and time/effort put in) into this, but I am willing to take a big loss on this in order to pay a great deal of my loan. But so far there is more then $12,700 into this venture.

I have sold almost 50 of the 500 DashMini's Manufactured (Many at the $32.99 per)

450+ DashMini Mac Mini Mounts
Serial Numbers Stickers (0-600)
DashMini Accessory Packages
Retail Boxes
Shipping Cartons
Heavy Duty Industrial Shipping/Packaging Supplies
Mac Inventory Software, POS System, Barcoders, and such
Full Featured high traffic Domain Name and Dynamic Website
Over 10 Website Styles (Used and Unused) to always give the site a nice appearance
Plenty of Amazing Products to sell (New and Used Macintosh Items)
Fully intergrated e-mail system, inventory, website, etc...
Rights to all Materials Business Names, Advertisements, images, Etc
Some other websites setup to support MacEffects like MacDeals.org (Google AdSense and AD Money Maker)
Retail Supplies
Buy it and its your, but I will help with anything and everything where possible.

You will get all of the products too such as:

DashMini Under-Desk Mount for Mac Mini
AirKey Macintosh Wireless Keyboards / Mice for USB
WaveLAN WiFi PCMICA Newton/PowerBook/PC Card
And TONS MORE Mac Items most were only available though me giving you that monopoly you always wanted ;)

Mathematics behind it:
450 @ $32.99 = $14,845 + Over $8,900 in other products | Total $23,745
Profit from the (minus the $5,800 - O.B.O.) $17,945+

450 @ $30 = $13,500 + Over $8,900 in other products | Total $22,400
Profit from the (minus the $5,800 - O.B.O.) $16,600+

450 @ $25 = $11,250 + Over $8,900 in other products | Total $21,500
Profit from the (minus the $5,800 - O.B.O.) $15,700+

Now, only thing required from you (buyer) is Time (Which I no longer have), Patience, and a Mac/Businness Brain... Yep, thats all and then you could see all of that profit.

With this all of the work is done, all of the equipment is there, and all of the money will be pure profit for you.

As, I am sure you know there is a great deal of market for something like the DashMini, and other new/used Macintosh Accessories.

The DashMini, as you can read from my site (MacEffects.net) is an amazing and one of a kind Macintosh Accessory. This has been successfully ran over with a Buick Le Saber Custom 1994 Full sized Sedan and popped right back to shape. There is only one product like it on the market that as you may also have read it is made poorly and far more costly, and not economical.

This is THE Idea opportunity for an investor with a bit of free time, or anyone who wants to make some money on the side... And of course people who want to be able to say they own their own 3rd Party Macintosh Company, just like Belkin, NewerTech, Etc...


MacEffects and DashMini are both names that were well thought out, and unique not trademark issues, while remaining totally cool and meaningful. And the DashMini must be the best Mac Mini item available on the market it has unlimited uses and applications.

I am asking only $5,800 (OBO) since I know it must be the best of deals in order to sell, and I must sell it all within a few months to pay off my mortgage. And I do realize you have to be a certain type of person to do this, an Investor, Mac User, Someone who knows how good this really is... I will cover all of the shipping costs of the heavy items. As far as payment, what every you'd prefer Western Union, PayPal, Money Order, Cashiers Checks, Business Checks, Personal Checks (Must Clear), C.O.D. Type Service, etc... I will not take cash as it is not safe for me or the buyer. I will do anything possible to help and get everything up and running for you. Please let me know if you have any questions, concerns, and comments. Ah yes also I feel the need to mention this is NOT some kind of scam!

My Home Phone Number is: 219-325-3893 (Please call if really interested, don't spam, don't wake me up, etc...)

My e-mail is Sales@maceffects.net

Also, this is very important things that are not included: Me, My identity, My Credit Cards, My Bank Accounts, my eBay Accounts, MR account, Etc... I know it may seem dumb and sort of comical having to say this but you get some crazy people that don't understand this.

Like I said, I need to get the money back before a get myself into some troubles, so if you are serious please let me know.

Also, I'll be adding more info ASAP!

http://maceffects.net/possibilities.jpg

NOTE ----> Moderators: This is NOT some BS/Newbie post, and is not a comerical post... and I recently paid you guys 20 buck :p . But really I just wanted to make sure you knew.

[MacEffects]

http://maceffects.net/site.jpg

[skoker]

Just stating some un-biased facts:

a) We have a Marketplace on MR for, um, marketing items. Not Community discussion.

b) You aren't allowed to list things of this nature.

c) Just because you paid doesn't mean you get to bend the rules.

[WinterMute]

Whilst the Marketplace rules specifically prohibit commercial sales, this actually isn't a commercial sale, i.e. he's not simply trying to punt product at the MacRumors faithful.

I'm inclined to let this run until someone with a better grasp calls time or we get more reports.

[ITASOR]

Not that I'm in the position to really comment, but look at the OP, they've been a great poster, helped many people, never spammed or posted anything dumb. They're selling something...let them try and sell it...it's not hurting anyone.

[skoker]

Just to clarify: I didn't report this thread.

[WinterMute]

To further clarify the report was about the post being in the wrong forum, with a secondary comment questioning whether this was appropriate at all.

As I said, I see no reason to close this thread as yet.

[skoker]

I wish I had 5,800 bucks :(

[Stampyhead]

Sorry to hear about your financial troubles. Unfortunately I can't afford to buy a business right now, but I'll certainly tell people about your products. Those little shelves for the Mini's look pretty cool. I know a few people that may be interested in them.
Good luck!

[0s and 1s]

Let's all pitch in. I'd put in $500.

[skoker]

Let's all pitch in. I'd put in $500.

I could do that.

Better yet, why don't we sell 'stock' in the company for like $10 a share? Then the 'stockholders' vote on people to run the company, and then every 4 months we give a % of the profit to the shareholders depending on how much stock they own?

I could head this one up.

[Doctor Q]

As I said, I see no reason to close this thread as yet.Just to second the motion, this thread meets the Marketplace rules. An offer for a private sale of something (a business) between MacRumors members.

It's too bad you have to sell the business, MacEffects. I'm sure you have pride of ownership and want it to go to a good home.

[jtalerico]

I could do that.

Better yet, why don't we sell 'stock' in the company for like $10 a share? Then the 'stockholders' vote on people to run the company, and then every 4 months we give a % of the profit to the shareholders depending on how much stock they own?

I could head this one up.

I would be in.

[skoker]

I would be in.

If anybody else is interested, send me a PM with how many shares you'd be interested in and I'll get in touch with MacEffects.

[MacEffects]

Thanks for the support... I really appreciate it! While I believe you are not serious about the stock think, well... I have over 1,000 Shares (You will also get for $5,800 including Corporate Seal, Corporate Records) from CPC for MacEffects (formerly Macs R Us Computers), and while it is doable, I think it is a bit to much time consuming, and would require loads of work, but if anyone here is skill in that PM me :D But on a serious note, I am sorry for posting this in the wrong category, I was not sure if it would classify as a Marketplace listing. Also, I somehow knew this would be on some kind of debate for being on MR... But I'd much rather see it go to someone on here, or as a last resort, I'll sell it on eBay. I am sure if some of you are really truly interested, I am sure there is something I can work out, maybe a monthly payment (Large enough to cover my payment :rolleyes: ) and I send items as I get money, or something like that... I am flexibly desperate :D

$500 will get you 86 Shares of 1000 (I have Class A, Class B, Preferred, and Common Stock) - I think it would be really to hard to organize shares to people like that, but if someone wants to help, I'm willing to do it.

I am really open to ANYTHING

[jtalerico]

skoker round up as many people you can and let me know what is going on.

joe.talerico@gmail.com

[MacEffects]

skoker round up as many people you can and let me know what is going on.

joe.talerico@gmail.com

Wow, you guys are serious! Okay, well I am by no means an attorney or anything so what will have to be done, is someone maybe skoker can gather up people and give out rights of owners ship and such... And after we get 11-12 people then I give it all to the main person (IE Skoker or whoever). This way I don't have to deal directly with the long legal, and informational time consuming things, while I still would get about $5,800 to pay off the loan... But, please keep in mine you need a business brain to be part of this;)

Also, I am located in LaPorte Indiana (46350) near Chicago, so if anyone is interested in checking everything out, and stuff give me a call, and we can set up a date and time.

[jeremy.king]

I could head this one up.

No offense, do you have any idea on what you are doing - ie are you a corporate lawyer? There is a lot of legal crap/compliance that governs this type of thing...See ME's post above, for example.

[robo74]

I am really open to ANYTHING


I have contacted someone who I feel might be interested.
I gave them all your info including a copy of your original post.

Good luck man!

Rob

[skoker]

Here's how I would run it: I would get the products from MacEffects, store them, sell them, fulfill orders, ship, bill, yada-yada, and sell 'shares' in the 'business' to finance the purchase. I would sell 580 shares at $10 a piece so that I could meet the $5,800 that MacEffects is asking. Then, I would sell the products for like $25 or something, and then every quarter or so distribute the 'profits' to the 'shareholders'. It would be a private venture, so laws would not be a problem (I actually called a local Small Business lawyer to verify).

Anyways, profits would be determined like this:

Net sales minus administrative fees (like advertising, shouldn't be too much) divided by 580, which is the number of shares.

So lets say in a given quarter, I sell 100 products for $25 a piece. That's $2500 in profit. Now subtract an admin fee of say $100, which leaves you with $2400 in the 'pool'. Now divide by 580 and that leaves you with a quarterly profit of $4.31 per share. So theoretically every share would make a tad over $10 in return after all of the products have sold.

I've got a few people interested, let's get some more so I can get this ball rolling!

MacEffects, if you could PM me with your thoughts, I'd appreciate it.

[reberto]

I don't want to sound like I am thred crapping but what if some MR members buy the company and it becomes an MR business? Could we do that?

[Atlasland]

Mathematics behind it:
450 @ $32.99 = $14,845 + Over $8,900 in other products | Total $23,745
Profit from the (minus the $5,800 - O.B.O.) $17,945+

450 @ $30 = $13,500 + Over $8,900 in other products | Total $22,400
Profit from the (minus the $5,800 - O.B.O.) $16,600+

450 @ $25 = $11,250 + Over $8,900 in other products | Total $21,500
Profit from the (minus the $5,800 - O.B.O.) $15,700+

Don't mean to threadcrap, but if you're selling these for $19.99, then a minimum valuation of $25 doesn't make much sense.

Also, maybe I missed it, but do you have a breakdown of the $8,900 figure?

[MacEffects]

Don't mean to threadcrap, but if you're selling these for $19.99, then a minimum valuation of $25 doesn't make much sense.


Thanks for bringing that to my attention, that $19.99 was for the New Years and x-mas sale, and its over... The PayPal button and shop prices where right, I just missed it... Sorry about that.


Also, maybe I missed it, but do you have a breakdown of the $8,900 figure?

Okay, well I have hundreds of New & Used Macintosh/Newton Accessories that the retail price would be about $8,900 these are left over from Macs R Us Computers. Also, keep in mind I have been doing Mac sales stuff since 1999, and in late 2004 I decided to risk it and do the DashMini idea, it would be great if I did not have any financial troubles, and had free time.

But, please PM if you like to know more about the others products that I have.



Aw, yes! Thanks everyone for all of the good ideas... Keep them coming... Also don't worry I don't mind constructive criticism, it is actually helpful for everyone... Just keep the posts coming!

[Doctor Q]

I don't want to sound like I am thred crapping but what if some MR members buy the company and it becomes an MR business? Could we do that?It won't be an MR business unless arn buys it. We're all his guests here and can't use the site name for our own purposes.

[MacEffects]

It won't be an MR business unless arn buys it. We're all his guests here and can't use the site name for our own purposes.

Maybe Arn wants to buy it :p

[skoker]

It won't be an MR business unless arn buys it. We're all his guests here and can't use the site name for our own purposes.

Looks like the Dr. beat me to it. Anyhoo, so far it's looking like I have 53 shares accounted for. I'm working on putting up a site with all of the details and a way to pay for the shares, and such.




~*~

Before I get asked, what I'm going to do is see how many shares I can sell within a week's or so time, and if not then I may decide to lock up shop on the whole project, but none of us want this to happen so BUY SOME SHARES! PM me with how many shares you would like, they are only $10 each! Buy several! Use them as gifts!

[MacEffects]

BUY SOME SHARES! PM me with how many shares you would like, they are only $10 each! Buy several! Use them as gifts!

Yes, please BUY MANY SHARES and to sweeten the deal I will offer to give each shareholder a $19.95 free gift (Wireless Device Extender)

[Kwyjibo]

Yes, please BUY MANY SHARES and to sweeten the deal I will offer to give each shareholder a $19.95 free gift (Wireless Device Extender)

so according to your offer, you could buy one share at $10 and get a $20 device ... doesn't sound like a good business plan to me.

[jtalerico]

so according to your offer, you could buy one share at $10 and get a $20 device ... doesn't sound like a good business plan to me.
hmmm Maybe since he bought the item in bulk ( i would assume ) he got them at a rate. They might retail for 19.95 but to him they might of cost 10$ or even less.... No idea.

[litosclone]

I'm in for some shares, PM sent

[MacEffects]

hmmm Maybe since he bought the item in bulk ( i would assume ) he got them at a rate. They might retail for 19.95 but to him they might of cost 10$ or even less.... No idea.

Yes, I did get those for far less then $10, and I was actually hoping having that would have people get more then just one share, more incentive. And everyone thanks for the support! And keep it coming ;)

[williamw]

Do you guys really think its worth it to buy a site that basically only sells mac mini holders?

[mbl42]

You could expand the business.

[MacEffects]

Do you guys really think its worth it to buy a site that basically only sells mac mini holders?

Well, I know I DO but thats because I have so much invested. You must realize that most plastic manufactures have a minimum of about 5,000 units in order for them to work with you... And at say only $7 per unit thats $35,000 to start a business, plus what ever else you'll need to get the business started. At that rate you'd be looking at least over $45,000, plus your time... And this (While there is far less units) is the perfect investor opportunity, and if I did not have finacal problems, I would keep this for my self :D I think people would feel more comfortable taking a chance to make money by investing only $5,800 over $45,000 - I could be wrong. Plus I did all of the busy work, like description, pictures, marketing, etc...

[dylangurl21]

well, mac mini holders that seem pretty adaptable... i'd never seen them before tonight but im thinking about buying a few shares and buying one of the "mac mini holders" even though I dont have a mini.

[MacEffects]

well, mac mini holders that seem pretty adaptable... i'd never seen them before tonight but im thinking about buying a few shares and buying one of the "mac mini holders" even though I dont have a mini.

Thanks dylangurl21! I am glad that you can truly understand how great the DashMini really is. Also click HERE (http://www.maceffects.net/movie.html) for the Movie of this getting stepped on and see how durable it is

Also, I have had a few questions that I feel I should share with everyone, I will change my eBay Name, MR name, and any others, this will allow you to have those for MacEffects.

[jtalerico]

skoker lets get a update...

[skoker]

skoker lets get a update...

People do need sleep, plus this is Regents week.
:mad:

[ITASOR]

I will offer to give each shareholder a $19.95 free gift (Wireless Device Extender)

Which one...I need one of those. :p

[mlrproducts]

I want to cry that I still have an AMEX to pay off, otherwise I could have loaded it back up with a business. This would have been the perfect oppurtunity!

[MacEffects]

Also, there has been people that have been interested in calling me to talk about it, and I am not always home, so you are more then welcome to call my cell: 219-575-3893 (Jim). Also, again I would very much like to thank you all for your support in this!!!

[MacEffects]

People do need sleep, plus this is Regents week.
:mad:
Don't upset potental shareholders :D :rolleyes: but yes we all must sleep :p ... Okay, I'll be posting some pictures here within a day or so of some of the items that come with the deal... Also, just as an FYI I have until the 15th for the payment, and 30th for the eBay fees (Yeah that rip you off :eek: ). Also, Skoker whats the word on how many shares you have accounted for?

Please let me know.

[skoker]

Don't upset potental shareholders :D :rolleyes: but yes we all must sleep :p ... Okay, I'll be posting some pictures here within a day or so of some of the items that come with the deal... Also, just as an FYI I have until the 15th for the payment, and 30th for the eBay fees (Yeah that rip you off :eek: ). Also, Skoker whats the word on how many shares you have accounted for?

Please let me know.

I'm working on a site where you can go to purchase shares and get more info. It should be up within the next day or so.

[amacgenius]

Not to rip on skoker because I feel what he's doing is kinda cool - but shouldn't he have an adult doing this with him, I wouldn't even want to manage a business and I'm a year old than him (16).

[MacEffects]

Not to rip on skoker because I feel what he's doing is kinda cool - but shouldn't he have an adult doing this with him, I wouldn't even want to manage a business and I'm a year old than him (16).

Well, I feel that to me it doesn't matter your age, so long as you have the knowledge, and drive to do so... And, I am more then happy to work with Skoker. Age means little in this venture (I believe)... Others don't seem to mind either.

[skoker]

Not to rip on skoker because I feel what he's doing is kinda cool - but shouldn't he have an adult doing this with him, I wouldn't even want to manage a business and I'm a year old than him (16).

Less than two months older than me... anyways making progress on the site and hope to have it up tonite.

[LimeiBook86]

MacEffects is a great guy, and the web site is pretty cool...plus I designed the red apple loader and header at the top hehe.

Good luck!! :D

[skoker]

SHARES ARE NOW READY TO PURCHASE!

Go to http://osxempire.com/meshares to purchase your shares of MacEffect today!


(I whipped up that site pretty fast, if you find anything wrong with it please PM me immediately! Thank you!)

[rdowns]

Hell, for 10 bucks a share I'll buy a bunch. My only question, what if Apple changes the form factor of the mini when it goes Intel?

[skoker]

Hell, for 10 bucks a share I'll buy a bunch. My only question, what if Apple changes the form factor of the mini when it goes Intel?

They are expendable enough. I was playing around a bit in Keynote last night and came up with a couple of cool uses for them. Most of the people I'll be marketing to don't even know what a Mac is. I personally don't care it they use it for their rubbish, as long as it gets sold I'm happy, you dig?

[Kwyjibo]

you need a target market ... that should be mac mini owners ... don't start too big ... a market of anyone who wants it won't be effective ...



so question, lets say that you make $5,800 next year ... you send all your share holders a check for $580 ... but I mean how much are you making? If you sell $5,800 in mac mini holders, I would think you'd be doing a considerable amount of work and want a little piece ... just something to think about.

[Rowen]

I am going to give you a call in the morning and discuss with you my knowledge of online business, advertising, and such. Hell, after the talk, maybe you'll have someone buy some shares of your company.

Look forward to talking with you.
- Andrew

[DaveP]

Is there any way it could added to the website how many shares have been puchased thus far?

[jessica.]

OK,
I think this is going quite well (I've lurked since the post went up) but here are the issues.
#1. Even if you invest only $10, where exactly is your money going? I know, it's going to the current owner of MacEffects, but who is MacEffects? Monday morning if I go into the office and research your corporation filings will I find one? Will your address be that of a post office box? Maybe you're out of the equation, so that leaves us with a minor named skoker. Can he run a business? I'm sure he could, I did at 16 and did quite well. Although my lawyer never told me that since I was a private venture I didn't need to worry about laws, but then again I paid him a retainer so he was quite willing to be upfront with me.

#2. I'd like to drop some cash on this, but I'd also like to see this in writing, signed and notarized. In all truthfulness, $10 from me is nothing. $5800 from a group of people is something. How come no one has asked about a written affidavit that was notarized with a witness that outlined exactly what skoker says he will do? No offense man, but just because you're a good guy doesn't make me feel any more warm and fuzzy like.

#3. skoker, what is your real name and location? If the business will be ran from your house then we'd need to know this information in the event something goes wrong.

#4. As shareholders, you want to vote for who runs the "company". While that's understandable, wouldn't there be some sort of guidelines as to who would be in the running? Or say, there is some hierarchy of ownership. If I buy $1000 worth of shares right now and that happens to be the most anyone buys then wouldn't it be fair to say I "own" more than others? Would my voice be heard? (btw I have no intention of dropping a grand on this venture, $500...maybe).

Pardon my overall suspicion, but I do not hand over money for a paper copy of a share that I own to just anyone. And while MacEffects claims that age isn't an issue, in the U.S. it is. Meaning if you take off with our cash tomorrow skoker, you'd be charged for theft and wire fraud, but other than that, you'd probably end up with a slap on the wrist and no restitution would have to be paid to the shareholders.

Let me know. And if you'd rather PM that info I asked for that's cool, but it will eventually be public record if you intend to file the correct paperwork through your state.

[skoker]

OK,
I think this is going quite well (I've lurked since the post went up) but here are the issues.
#1. Even if you invest only $10, where exactly is your money going? I know, it's going to the current owner of MacEffects, but who is MacEffects? Monday morning if I go into the office and research your corporation filings will I find one? Will your address be that of a post office box? Maybe you're out of the equation, so that leaves us with a minor named skoker. Can he run a business? I'm sure he could, I did at 16 and did quite well. Although my lawyer never told me that since I was a private venture I didn't need to worry about laws, but then again I paid him a retainer so he was quite willing to be upfront with me.

First of all, the owner is not collecting this money, I am. The money will then be forwarded to the owner when I have the amount he needs. I don't own MacEffects at the moment, I'm selling shares separate from the company so that I can buy the company, MacEffects as a company has nothing to do with the details of the sale. There will be no corporate fillings from me because I consulted our family's councilor (legal-eagle speak for lawyer for those of you not enlightened by Law and Order) and they agreed that legally this is almost a garage-sale sort of matter. If anybody would like to get ahold of me, I'd be willing to provide my contact's given that you send me a PM or email asking for it.


#2. I'd like to drop some cash on this, but I'd also like to see this in writing, signed and notarized. In all truthfulness, $10 from me is nothing. $5800 from a group of people is something. How come no one has asked about a written affidavit that was notarized with a witness that outlined exactly what skoker says he will do? No offense man, but just because you're a good guy doesn't make me feel any more warm and fuzzy like.

Like I said, this is strictly a private venture. There has to be an element of trust, and so far it seems like everybody here and those who have bought shares have trusted me with this. If you will lose sleep at night over buying a share, then don't, plain and simple. Nobody is going to shoot you down if you don't.


#3. skoker, what is your real name and location? If the business will be ran from your house then we'd need to know this information in the event something goes wrong.


If you had/have gone to the share purchase website, my real name is clearly displayed on the site. Again, I will furnish contact info to those who PM or email me and ask for it.


#4. As shareholders, you want to vote for who runs the "company". While that's understandable, wouldn't there be some sort of guidelines as to who would be in the running? Or say, there is some hierarchy of ownership. If I buy $1000 worth of shares right now and that happens to be the most anyone buys then wouldn't it be fair to say I "own" more than others? Would my voice be heard? (btw I have no intention of dropping a grand on this venture, $500...maybe).

Every share has one vote. If I ask for the shareholders opinion on a matter and there is a vote, I am obligated to follow the rule of the majority, even if I disagree with it. That's called honor and respecting your clients, and these are two values that are very high on my list.


Pardon my overall suspicion, but I do not hand over money for a paper copy of a share that I own to just anyone. And while MacEffects claims that age isn't an issue, in the U.S. it is. Meaning if you take off with our cash tomorrow skoker, you'd be charged for theft and wire fraud, but other than that, you'd probably end up with a slap on the wrist and no restitution would have to be paid to the shareholders.

It's not going to happen. Do a search, I have never and will never 'take off' with somebody's money. People here trust me and I respect that greatly.[/quote]


Let me know. And if you'd rather PM that info I asked for that's cool, but it will eventually be public record if you intend to file the correct paperwork through your state.

Again, no paperwork is needed or will be filed.


Any more questions, please keep in touch.
-skoker

[jeremy.king]

Again, no paperwork is needed or will be filed.


Jessica has very valid points.

This idea is very very troubling. Everyone is supposed to take your "word" for it. Also, the fact that people are sending you money for a company you don't even own yet is even more disturbing.

With no business plan in place, financial records/history of the companies performance, and a no-documentation share program being handled by high school student who will assume sole ownership of the company involved is enough reason to take this thread out of the marketplace and into the Community Discussion category.

If you are going to do it...do it right. Incorporate and issue REAL stock and just keep 51% of it...

[skoker]

Jessica has very valid points.

This idea is very very troubling. Everyone is supposed to take your "word" for it. Also, the fact that people are sending you money for a company you don't even own yet is even more disturbing.

With no business plan in place, financial records/history of the companies performance, and a no-documentation share program being handled by high school student who will assume sole ownership of the company involved is enough reason to take this thread out of the marketplace and into the Community Discussion category.

If you are going to do it...do it right. Incorporate and issue REAL stock and just keep 51% of it...

For such a small scale, selling real stock market stock would be pointless. I'll probably not even wind up making money on this, I'm just trying to do MacEffects (the macrumors member) a favor. I wish you guys would stop being so accusatory and just ask constructive questions if you have them. I do have a business plan, and there is a documentation share program in place. I'm not getting sole ownership.

Do some research BEFORE you post, please.

[kingcrowing]

yeah, I agree, this is very legit, he has stated that your money will be refunded if need be, and if you arent in a position to lose $10, then as he said, don't buy stock.

~how many shares have you sold so far?

[jeremy.king]

For such a small scale, selling real stock market stock would be pointless. I'll probably not even wind up making money on this, I'm just trying to do MacEffects (the macrumors member) a favor. I wish you guys would stop being so accusatory and just ask constructive questions if you have them. I do have a business plan, and there is a documentation share program in place. I'm not getting sole ownership.

Do some research BEFORE you post, please.

I can definitely post the same things in the form of a question...

skoker, you must do your research.

FYI - You don't have to issue stock that is publicly traded (such as on the NYSE or NASDAQ) - there exists such a thing known as privately issued stock.

I understand your intententions and its admirable - but use your energy to research how to acquire and operate a business properly. Its an undaunting task that will consume all of your time and energy.

Basically - since you are trying to become a co-op...So I would suggest you start here.

http://www.ncba.coop/
http://www.sba.gov/ - or more importantly - http://www.sba.gov/starting_business/startup/guide.html

I'll leave you alone, but I still don't think this thread belongs in the Marketplace.

[jessica.]

To skoker:
Semantics really. Whether the owner of the company (as it stands today) is taking the cash or you are collecting it on his behalf, he is getting the money. That's all I meant.

Paperwork and your family's "counsellor": If this guy really is telling you it's ok to skate by without paperwork because this is more like a garage sale, then it is a matter of a personal opinion that I believe he is off his rocker. It is a "garage" sale when it was between you and the current owner of the company. It became something much more when you invited people to participate in the sale of shares in the company. When said shares give said participants power of a vote (which is actually quite a bit of power), then it becomes much more than a garage sale or a garage company. Do you get my drift? Nonetheless, you are under no legal obligation to file any paperwork except for the proper licenses that allow you to sell goods out of your home (or anywhere for that matter). And yes, I understand that your counsellor said no...but first let's be real. He's a lawyer, we'll call him that. Counsellor is usually reserved for trail lawyers and you need a lawyer who deals in corporations and small businesses. Would you hire a real estate attorney to defend you for a felony crime?

Anyway, to your next point...you're right I don't have to buy into this. However, if you have that much of an issue with questions such as these and your defense continues to be my family's "counsellor" said so...then you're right, I probably don't want in on this and I'd venture to guess others would start to wonder as well. Perhaps not nearly as verbally as I do! But you are right, if $10 is going to cause a sleepless night for me then I probably don't want to do this. I mean heck, $10 down the crapper would certainly put a dent in my month. However, say that $10 turns into $1000, then $10,000...then what? Hey who knows, three years from now I have sunk into the garage sale, I mean company thousands of dollars to keep it alive, create more product, etc. I noticed that in your little plan you didn't say what happens when the supply runs out and the demand is still there. What next? Our shares were only good for current stock so anything produced and sold over that we're not entitled to?

Is anyone else wondering about these things or am I just on crack? It's possible...I could be nuts!

Your personal information:
I went to the site, I didn't see it, but I did use the drop down box on the left and when I switched it from the default to MacEffects I got an sql or php error. It was late so I don't recall.

Your next post where you get very defensive and beg for constructive questions to be asked...that gets me good. I'd like you to step back and rethink what constructive questions look like. My questions are not only constructive but they are very valid.

I'm not so much into whether or not you're going to take off with the money. But using prior sales of items in your bedroom hardly means you'll stay on the up and up. I said it, I meant to say it, but it's not a super huge concern. I cough out the words Enron, WorldComm, and Tyco. All great men, all got a bit well...lost along the way. I know you're like not even a spec in the universe of their worlds in terms of scale...but still. The questions I ask are questions that any investor should ask. Especially an investor who wants to put money into a company that doesn't even have a financial statement. Where is MacEffects in all of this? Where's your 2005 FS? Do you have a forecasted statement for 2006? I may not (well I do now) but 2 days ago I didn't know how to create them, but I sure the hell know how to read them and I also know about the importance of them...do you?

It all comes down to this. Skoker, you're doing a great thing for this fellow member. I can see that you are ambitious and quite savvy on the surface. YOu have a ton to learn and you will only learn by 1)education 2)life experience. Right now you're too young for the education part (I was thinking college) but you're try to get life experience. That is admirable. But don't cross your potential investors when they ask you very valid questions about your plans. It's bad business my friend.

I wish you all the very best of luck. I think that you'll skate by and this will go well for you. You'll probably even make some cash on it which will be great. I also think that even buying $500 in shares would be safe and could provide a great rate of return. However, there is still some confusion about the life expectancy of the business.

That's all I'm saying. No need to be on the defense, I am 100% harmless.

[skoker]

yeah, I agree, this is very legit, he has stated that your money will be refunded if need be, and if you arent in a position to lose $10, then as he said, don't buy stock.

~how many shares have you sold so far?

7 so far (in just a few hours) and I have about 50 more reserved.

[amacgenius]

To skoker:
Semantics really. Whether the owner of the company (as it stands today) is taking the cash or you are collecting it on his behalf, he is getting the money. That's all I meant.

*very long speech*

Bravo jessica. bravo, very valid statements.

But seeing as I know skoker personally I bought a share just so I can monitor how things go, so we'll see.

[skoker]

The 'valid questions' was in no means directed at you (or anyone in particular) and I do apologize if that's how it was received.

I guess to make this easier I'll voice my stances on a point-by-point basis.

Age: I don't see why age is a big deal in this. Many online businesses are ran successfully and become profitable by people even younger than I am, and I think that many of these concerns are caused by unneeded questioning of my age and experience.

Life Expectancy: Well, I've been itching to say this, so I'll just put the answers to mainly all the questions into one reply.

Maybe I was mis-spoken when I referred to the sale as 'shares'. Let's just consider it a loan that you are giving me, rather than me asking for donations, and when the products get sold, you get some of the profits. It's interest, rather than share-payouts. I'm just adding the added layer of protection that you will get a return. It concerns me that people are feeling the need to tell me that I'm going 'against the law' or whatever, because that is not the case. I DO, however, happen to hold a business license for those concerned (for Enquata Networks, it was recommended to me that I get one and I did some time ago)(I also submit yearly taxes for that).

I hope these clear up a lot of your concerns and if you do have any more questions/concerns, by all means get in touch with me and I'll clear them up.

-skoker

EDIT: (also, the site I was referring to was http://osxempire.com/meshares, not http://maceffects.net)

[amacgenius]

I DO, however, happen to hold a business license for those concerned (for Enquata Networks, it was recommended to me that I get one and I did some time ago)(I also submit yearly taxes for that).

Can we see proof of that, because not too long ago you wanted to sell me Enquata and you mentioned nothing about a license or taxes ;).

[skoker]

Can we see proof of that, because not too long ago you wanted to sell me Enquata and you mentioned nothing about a license or taxes ;).

It's voluntary for that (business license), but I had other expansion plans that I would have needed them for. I still pay taxes on all sales (currently a total of 28%, which sucks grande buttoxen).

I would provide proof, but it's essntially my social security number. I'll do a bit of digging though and see if WildWest can cough up some records.

[MacEffects]

FYI - You don't have to issue stock that is publicly traded (such as on the NYSE or NASDAQ) - there exists such a thing known as privately issued stock.

I understand your intententions and its admirable - but use your energy to research how to acquire and operate a business properly. Its an undaunting task that will consume all of your time and energy.

I'll leave you alone, but I still don't think this thread belongs in the Marketplace.

As for where this belongs I too was wondering this when I posted this thread, thats why I put it in the Community Discussion it was however moved, and I'd say I am satisfied it being here.

Okay, well I must say here to clear this up, I believe that Skoker should deal this as a business and take all actions following that. I was not ever intending anything else. What I'd like to do, since I can not afford any kind of potential legal problems, and such... Is simply this: Who ever (Skoker or a person with the cash) does this deal is paying solely for the products as listed above, and all of there content, and the like. And, I would have no further involvement in that. And, yes I do recommend you seek legal advice from an Attorney before we make a final decisions, and I think the other members concerns are simply that your a minor and while you will I'm sure be trustable, its the way you are going about it, like I said I have no information about that. I had a small local store (where I did this all from, and due to lack of funds I need to move out there too:( ) his also making it worse since I don't have room in my home for all of these items. Also, being that Macs R Us Computers was actually going to become incorporated and never did, and because of this risk involved in such a thing, however these are 100% ligament stock certificates with full corporate seal, and watermarks, so that was not some kind of fake or knock off... I just want you all to know I have the best of intentions for everyone, and my only goal is to get money for my loan to be paid off, or bank people might begin to take an interest in my house :( :rolleyes: I am too also no longer registered as a sole-proprietorship as I did not have the money currently to renew the registration, and its simple my a lone person doing this (Just an FYI for you lawyer people out there)

My
Business Address is:

N.I.C.P.
Suite 3
302 Licolnway
LaPorte IN 46350
(800) 365-6754 | Other numbers as indicated above


I will gladly provide my home address and any other information if requested in a PM.

[MacEffects]

I am also willing to sell a box of fifty to any interested parties, and I suppose that would make you a distributor of sorts. And, with that you get all of the rights to images, content, info, and all of the good stuff, but you just have to sell, ship, and earn money. I am open to offers for the box of 50 Units ;)

[MacEffects]

Also, I have over $1,200 of new sealed Apple Ink too, and I would add that to the $5,800 to make it an even $6,000 for anyone interested (Thats $200 if your maths not so good)... Also, I will take $250 (OBO) for these by themselves.

[NWAMacTech]

First of all, the owner is not collecting this money, I am. The money will then be forwarded to the owner when I have the amount he needs. I don't own MacEffects at the moment, I'm selling shares separate from the company so that I can buy the company, MacEffects as a company has nothing to do with the details of the sale. There will be no corporate fillings from me because I consulted our family's councilor (legal-eagle speak for lawyer for those of you not enlightened by Law and Order) and they agreed that legally this is almost a garage-sale sort of matter. If anybody would like to get ahold of me, I'd be willing to provide my contact's given that you send me a PM or email asking for it.



Like I said, this is strictly a private venture. There has to be an element of trust, and so far it seems like everybody here and those who have bought shares have trusted me with this. If you will lose sleep at night over buying a share, then don't, plain and simple. Nobody is going to shoot you down if you don't.



If you had/have gone to the share purchase website, my real name is clearly displayed on the site. Again, I will furnish contact info to those who PM or email me and ask for it.



Every share has one vote. If I ask for the shareholders opinion on a matter and there is a vote, I am obligated to follow the rule of the majority, even if I disagree with it. That's called honor and respecting your clients, and these are two values that are very high on my list.



It's not going to happen. Do a search, I have never and will never 'take off' with somebody's money. People here trust me and I respect that greatly.



Again, no paperwork is needed or will be filed.


Any more questions, please keep in touch.
-skoker[/QUOTE]





Based on the above, this is not a legitament venture, anyone who invests may or may not recive any money in return, basically you will be paying for skoker to buy this business. I think skoker is "banking" on most of you buying only a few shares because then its no big deal when he doesnt pay you any profit shares, which probably wont come about anyway. Its not that I dont belive someone under 16 can run a business, quite the contrary but I dont belive from reading this threak skoker will be able to.

[NWAMacTech]

stock market stock
Do some research BEFORE you post, please.

Stock market stock - LOL

I think you should do a little research and try again.

For the record I think MacEffects has a good business but this whole share thing isnt going to work this way. Why doesnt MacEffects sell shares to raise some capital? Hes incorporated right?

[MacEffects]

. Why doesnt MacEffects sell shares to raise some capital? Hes incorporated right?

Was going to be incorporated, and just did not renew business license due to lack of funds, and not being able to pay for store front rent, and getting the boot from everywhere, so I am sure you can see the dilemma. I don't know any kind of laws behind any of this I am a Mac geek not a lawyer. So, I leave all off that up to the other members and any other interested parties.

[MacEffects]

Ah, yes also... STOP THE SPAM PLEASE!!! I have got over 20 tele-marketers calling my home in one day, were I would only get one or two before... And e-mails, countless new Spam.

If you can't help me please don't Spam Me :mad:

[MacEffects]

Okay, heres the deal: Unless I get some serious offers, or most of the $5,800 or buyers for some of those items... I will be forced to sell this on eBay or something of that sort, I hate to have be be so blunt, but well. Its getting close to the deadline, and I am getting anxiously worried that I will not be able to put this off... So please if we can get something going, please let me know ASAP!

Again, sorry for sounding so harsh, I really do appreciate the help, I am just running very low on time :(

[skoker]

Based on the above, this is not a legitament venture, anyone who invests may or may not recive any money in return, basically you will be paying for skoker to buy this business. I think skoker is "banking" on most of you buying only a few shares because then its no big deal when he doesnt pay you any profit shares, which probably wont come about anyway. Its not that I dont belive someone under 16 can run a business, quite the contrary but I dont belive from reading this threak skoker will be able to.


Do you have any proof to support this claim? You only have 16 posts, and most of them have been harassing other members. I think you need to take the time and read before you make claims like this. I already have a business that successfully run and manage.

[Atlasland]

With all due respect skoker, I don't think you've thought this through.

I don't believe you're being dishonest - it's just that doing what you're trying to do in a fair and open way, and in a short spce of time, is virtually impossible.

It's admirable that you want to help a fellow user out, and the initiative you've shown in taking the idea this far is impressive. But I think there are too many question marks to make this a viable proposition.

And judging by the relatively low number of shares sold (I'm doubting you're anywhere near the $5800 mark), maybe it would be best if the user MacEffects took this to eBay. There you're likely to get fair valuation of your business with relatively fast and definite payment. Good Luck!

[skoker]

With all due respect skoker, I don't think you've thought this through.

I don't believe you're being dishonest - it's just that doing what you're trying to do in a fair and open way, and in a short spce of time, is virtually impossible.

It's admirable that you want to help a fellow user out, and the initiative you've shown in taking the idea this far is impressive. But I think there are too many question marks to make this a viable proposition.

And judging by the relatively low number of shares sold (I'm doubting you're anywhere near the $5800 mark), maybe it would be best if the user MacEffects took this to eBay. There you're likely to get fair valuation of your business with relatively fast and definite payment. Good Luck!

I've thought it through, trust me, it just that there are some people (this is not directed at you) who like to cause trouble and ruin things form everyone else.

[liquidh2o]

some things to consider...

1.) Do you have a business TAX ID (company specific, not for previous businesses) and who'll be filing on behalf of the company?

2.) How do you plan to put forth money to pay for advertising fees and any overhead costs associated with selling?

3.) You stated that people will vote on suggestions you make... does this mean others aren't allowed to make suggestions? Does everyone involved get a say in who will be the head of this company?

4.) What is the arrangement for obtaining the physical items included in this sale? Who will be inventorying/manage/distibuting these items? How will these people(s) be compensated?

5.) do you have any legally binding documentation to provide that assure us we all own a stake in this company? Is it notarized? Who is keeping this documentation?

I can't see myself investing anything if these questions aren't already answered. Jessica is spot on on everything she's said. I just don't think you really understand what you're getting yourself into, regardless of your past business ventures. I'm also leary that at some point your parents will be involved as they are your legal guardians.

[NWAMacTech]

Do you have any proof to support this claim? You only have 16 posts, and most of them have been harassing other members. I think you need to take the time and read before you make claims like this. I already have a business that successfully run and manage.

Here's all the proof I need:
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=175811

Also, what does my post count have to do with the legitamacy of this matter?

[NWAMacTech]

I think that Jessica and liquidh20 have been making the best arguments. Skoker, my comments I still feel are dead on but had I more time I probably would have wrote them in a little nicer way to try to spare (atleast some) of your feelings. Im just curioius what does your other business do? I went the the website or shall I say lack thereof and it was just a domain park page.

MacEffects: Good luck, will you post the ebay auciton here? Id be interested in seeing how much it goes for. Also, i'm sorry to hear about your financial trouble.

[zimv20]

skoker, i suggest you rethink the way you're presenting the proposal. what troubles me in particular is the phrasing used to make the venture seem like a corporation ("shares", "voting"). i was advised by an attorney years ago when i was using similar language while designing a profit sharing scheme for a company i partly owned.

he told me that use of such terminology clouds the legal matter and i could be getting myself into trouble. instead, we used the term profit sharing and went from there.

what you're proposing sounds, to me, like profit sharing. the best route for you, imo, would be to set this up as a sole proprietorship and treat the investors as investors, not shareholders. that means that you would control the company, which in and of itself is a big win because you don't have to worry about balance of power and fights over it.

i'd also suggest you start thinking now about 1) valuation and 2) out strategies. at some point, someone's going to want out and want their "fair share". what's fair? you can only determine that from a valuation of the company, and that procedure needs to be in place before the first request. you could also use the valuation model to determine the value of the company at purchase time.

good luck.

[sigamy]

I am also willing to sell a box of fifty to any interested parties, and I suppose that would make you a distributor of sorts. And, with that you get all of the rights to images, content, info, and all of the good stuff, but you just have to sell, ship, and earn money. I am open to offers for the box of 50 Units ;)

MacEffects,

I wish you luck here. I'm not sure if you have tried this but you may want to contact some of the other small Mac/iPod accessory companies out there to see if they want to buy you out or buy your inventory. I purchased an iPod holder a few years back, before iPods had docks. It is a nice clear plastic unit and the guy had a nice little web site. Can't remember the site though.

Anyway...I'm sure you've tried this but if not it's an idea.

[ITASOR]

MacEffects,

I wish you luck here. I'm not sure if you have tried this but you may want to contact some of the other small Mac/iPod accessory companies out there to see if they want to buy you out or buy your inventory. I purchased an iPod holder a few years back, before iPods had docks. It is a nice clear plastic unit and the guy had a nice little web site. Can't remember the site though.

Anyway...I'm sure you've tried this but if not it's an idea.

That's actually a really great idea. MacEffects, you should gather a list of all smaller Mac dealers and give them all a call. Even larger ones like PowerMax...just act professional and I'm sure they'll allow you to speak to someone higher up! Good luck with the sale!

[MacEffects]

That's actually a really great idea. MacEffects, you should gather a list of all smaller Mac dealers and give them all a call. Even larger ones like PowerMax...just act professional and I'm sure they'll allow you to speak to someone higher up! Good luck with the sale!

I did, and so far the only place I got so far is www.Mac-Pro.com and well its a start, I send him 3 units he will be posting on the site, and well, that to would go to the new owner.

[Kwyjibo]

skoker, how are stock sales going? its been about one week in your two week period

[skoker]

skoker, how are stock sales going? its been about one week in your two week period

I ended the sale. I had three irresponsible and immature MacRumors try and hack into my database, as well as two 'lawyers' email me threatening to sue me or call the police. Guess I'm guilty of being nice :(

[Kwyjibo]

I ended the sale. I had three irresponsible and immature MacRumors try and hack into my database, as well as two 'lawyers' email me threatening to sue me or call the police. Guess I'm guilty of being nice :(


Sorry to hear that, I didn't necessarily think you were ready for what you were doing, but I would never stop you from trying. we learn from our mistakes. well best of luck on the rest of your ventures

[robo74]

I ended the sale. I had three irresponsible and immature MacRumors try and hack into my database,


I assume you mean rumors members...
How did you know it was someone from here...
Just out of curiousity... Would like to know who these kids are.

[skoker]

I assume you mean rumors members...
How did you know it was someone from here...
Just out of curiousity... Would like to know who these kids are.

I know who it was because they left a pretty solid data trail, obviously got nerveous or something.

I'm not going to say who they are, but I am in touch with their ISPs and the appropiate other people who need to be informed of this. I will, however say that one person was already banned for a seperate reason.

MacEffects, what is your status with this?

-skoker

[NWAMacTech]

I can assure you all there was no "hacking" from me. skoker emailed me accusing me of hacking but anyone on here who has use oscommerce knows that if you put/admin after the url you get the admin site. i always try this so i can warn the person if they have not taken the proper safeguards. after i found this out i posted the link(bad idea) and then got a cease and desist pm from skoker threatining to contact my ISP, well go ahead there was no hacking needed: www.osxempire.com/meshares/admin, no password after he discovered this he them put up some password protection and all is well, unitl i geot a PM accusing me of "brute force" hacking into his site. Enough of this the only reason I post this story is to further my point about skoker beign a bit to immature to take on this venture.

[skoker]

I can assure you all there was no "hacking" from me. skoker emailed me accusing me of hacking but anyone on here who has use oscommerce knows that if you put/admin after the url you get the admin site. i always try this so i can warn the person if they have not taken the proper safeguards. after i found this out i posted the link(bad idea) and then got a cease and desist pm from skoker threatining to contact my ISP, well go ahead there was no hacking needed: www.osxempire.com/meshares/admin, no password after he discovered this he them put up some password protection and all is well, unitl i geot a PM accusing me of "brute force" hacking into his site. Enough of this the only reason I post this story is to further my point about skoker beign a bit to immature to take on this venture.


There was indeed a password on that directory, I don't know what you (or somebody else) did but Dreamhost tells me (this is coming right from the tech support there) that somebody made repeated tried at finding an admin folder (using guesses such as cpanel and cp that showed up in the logs) before finding the /admin directory. It was at this time that somebody got into SSH, which is not even enabled on my DH account :confused: and modified my .htaccess files.

I'm not saying anybody did anything, but IP address proof is hard to ignore, secure logs even harder.

[Kwyjibo]

got a cease and desist pm from skoker threatining to contact my ISP

I don't know what anybody did but I have to chuckle at a cease and desist PM especially if this was the language ... your honor I sent him an official private message on macrumors ... you can see the transcript here (print out of the PM). Whats a macrumors? whats a private message?

[NWAMacTech]

There was indeed a password on that directory, I don't know what you (or somebody else) did but Dreamhost tells me (this is coming right from the tech support there) that somebody made repeated tried at finding an admin folder (using guesses such as cpanel and cp that showed up in the logs) before finding the /admin directory. It was at this time that somebody got into SSH, which is not even enabled on my DH account :confused: and modified my .htaccess files.

I'm not saying anybody did anything, but IP address proof is hard to ignore, secure logs even harder.

Well that somebody wasnt me, and thats what upset me, is I didnt do it and if you had proper logging setup you would know that

[MacEffects]

Hello Again,
I just wanted to update this... I have still have it all available. And I took a second job to pay for the bills... I am willing to go less, and/or just selling the DashMinis alone (Wholesale) and giving you the site and content, and anything else I have for them and such... This would be way less... PM or Post if interest or have comments. I am open to anything.