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View Full Version : Bush contradicts his own excuse for circumventing FISA




Thomas Veil
Jan 27, 2006, 12:35 AM
Glenn Greenwald broke the story two days ago, and now Knight-Ridder and the Washington Post have piled on. First, WaPo:

The Bush administration rejected a 2002 Senate proposal that would have made it easier for FBI agents to obtain surveillance warrants in terrorism cases, concluding that the system was working well and that it would likely be unconstitutional to lower the legal standard.

The proposed legislation by Sen. Mike DeWine (R-Ohio) would have allowed the FBI to obtain surveillance warrants for non-U.S. citizens if they had a "reasonable suspicion" they were connected to terrorism -- a lower standard than the "probable cause" requirement in the statute that governs the warrants.

Knight Ridder piles on:

A July 2002 Justice Department statement to a Senate committee appears to contradict several key arguments that the Bush administration is making to defend its eavesdropping on U.S. citizens without court warrants.

The Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, the law governing such operations, was working well, the department said in 2002. A "significant review" would be needed to determine whether FISA's legal requirements for obtaining warrants should be loosened because they hampered counterterrorism efforts, the department said then.

President Bush, Attorney General Alberto Gonzales and other top officials now argue that warrantless eavesdropping is necessary in part because complying with the FISA law is too burdensome and impedes the government's ability to rapidly track communications between suspected terrorists.

In its 2002 statement, the Justice Department said it opposed a legislative proposal to change FISA to make it easier to obtain warrants that would allow the super-secret National Security Agency to listen in on communications involving non-U.S. citizens inside the United States.

Today, senior U.S. officials complain that FISA prevents them from doing that. ****ing slimeball.... :mad:

Link (http://www.democrats.org/a/2006/01/developing_all.php)



solvs
Jan 27, 2006, 02:02 AM
So... wait. Did they purposely let the warrants remain more "difficult" to get so they could use that as an excuse? And I use the term "difficult" loosely since they are pretty much as easy to get as just having a reason, and we all know you can even get them after you do the spying. This is like a bad conspiracy movie. I mean, I knew they were bad, but I figured it was more incompetance than evil. Guess I was wrong. Evil. I'm amazed that people still defend them.

The only other reason I could think of is that they wanted to give the appearance that they valued privacy, even while they pissed all over the Constitution and Bill Of Rights. Also Evil. And stupid.

freeny
Jan 27, 2006, 09:56 AM
Here we go agian. And of course, it will never stick:confused:

Absolutely baffles me as to what the other 47% of Americans are smokin'?

Thomas Veil
Jan 27, 2006, 10:04 AM
<snip>Unfortunately, the article is just ambiguous enough to leave Bush's motivation unclear.

Either way, though, it's just one more slimy example of Bush's lying, manipulative governance.

solvs
Jan 27, 2006, 11:20 PM
Unfortunately, the article is just ambiguous enough to leave Bush's motivation unclear.
Don't need the article to point out the obvious. There are only 2 ways it makes sense, and neither of them are good for Bush. Scary part is, over half the country seems to be ok with it or doesn't care.

Chundles
Jan 28, 2006, 12:06 AM
Knight Rider???

Thomas Veil
Jan 28, 2006, 06:45 AM
Knight-Ridder is a newspaper chain in the United States. They own, among others, the Philadelphia Inquirer and the Akron Beacon-Journal.

mactastic
Jan 28, 2006, 11:01 AM
San Jose Mercury and the San Luis Obispo Tribune as well.

Sedulous
Jan 28, 2006, 06:15 PM
I just don't understand the Bush admin. They just seem to nolonger care. Perhaps because Americans seem willing to excuse anything, so long as Bush is a good christian.

Thomas Veil
Jan 28, 2006, 07:50 PM
Who said it in "Fahrenheit 9/11"? "You can make people do anything if they're afraid." So they keep playing the fear card.

You know, kinda like the terrorists. ;)

solvs
Jan 28, 2006, 09:24 PM
You know, kinda like the terrorists. ;)
Which is why I keep saying the terrorists really have won. Sad isn't it.

Thomas Veil
Jan 28, 2006, 10:04 PM
Which is why I keep saying the terrorists really have won. Sad isn't it.Yeah, in the sense that they've instilled such a sense of terror that stupid people will act self-destructively and vote for the neocons, yes, they've won. But it goes beyond even that.

Remember, Osama hoped to weaken our government by sending us off on all kinds of wild goose chases and by bankrupting us. Bush's war is fulfilling those goals beyond Osama's wildest dreams.

And if Osama had hoped to weaken our system of government, well, he's succeeding at that too. Right now Bush is treating the Constitution as if it were a bunch of suggestions that he's free to accept or reject.

solvs
Jan 29, 2006, 01:21 AM
Not to mention that the country is split right down the middle. We're all at each others throats. Bush lovers calling everyone else unAmerican terrorist lovers, and Bush haters calling everyone who likes him stupid. As well as how the other countries in the world view us.

Sad.

mactastic
Feb 3, 2006, 11:43 PM
In one pointed exchange, Senator Russell D. Feingold of Wisconsin, a Democrat, asked Mr. Negroponte whether there were any other intelligence programs that had not been revealed to the full intelligence committees.

The intelligence chief hesitated, then replied, "Senator, I don't know if I can answer that in open session."

A similarly revealing sparring session came when Senator Ron Wyden, Democrat of Oregon, pressed the intelligence officials about whether a controversial Pentagon data-mining program called Total Information Awareness had been effectively transferred to the intelligence agencies after being shut down by Congress.

Mr. Negroponte and the F.B.I. director, Robert S. Mueller III, both said they did not know. Then came the turn of Gen. Michael V. Hayden, who headed N.S.A. for six years before becoming the principal deputy director of national intelligence last spring.

"Senator," General Hayden said, "I'd like to answer in closed session."Does anyone doubt that when we get to the bottom of this eavesdropping thing we're going to find that the TIA and Poindexter were involved in listening in on millions of Americans?
Link'd (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/02/international/02cnd-threat.html?_r=1&hp&ex=1138942800&en=822c59d9e39b3243&ei=5094&partner=homepage&oref=slogin)

zimv20
Feb 4, 2006, 02:55 AM
Does anyone doubt that when we get to the bottom of this eavesdropping thing we're going to find that the TIA and Poindexter were involved in listening in on millions of Americans?
i do not doubt it. c.f. ECHELON (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON).