Jobs greedier than Gates?

[Lord Blackadder]

Hmmmm. (http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060126-6062.html)

But what's the point, anyway? Should I buy Windows because Bill Gates gives more money to charity?

[pknz]

Blasphemy.;)

[ejb190]

That article brought two thoughts to mind:

1) The article states that Jobs may be giving anonymously, but then goes on as if he is not giving at all.
"And Jobs has said nary a word on behalf of important social issues, reserving his talents of persuasion for selling Apple products."
But Gates uses his giving to keep himself and Microsoft in the spotlight. Is that really any better?

2) Rich people don't get rich by giving away the farm.

3) (Okay, this one is a bonus.) Most of these guys "wealth" is on paper in stocks and such. These are not things that can be cashed in easily. I would argue that, while they still have considerable wealth, they are not as rich as one might think.

[Thanatoast]

Just because Bill is the leader of the evil empire, it doesn't invalidate his giving. Dude just sank $600 million into eradicating TB from the face of the earth. Do I respect that decision? Absolutely. Am I going to buy windows. Absolutely not.

Since there is no data on Jobs' giving, it's just as invalid to assume he does give as to assume he doesn't. Gates gives tons, and I'll applaud him for it.

Besides, look at many of the other mega-CEO's. You didn't see Kenneth Lay dropping hundreds of millions on medical research. We could do worse than Gates when it comes to nemeses.

[pknz]

Hmmmmmv2 (http://theocacao.com/document.page/220)

[mikeyredk]

My theory is he is trying to buy his way out of hell

[LethalWolfe]

Just because Bill is the leader of the evil empire, it doesn't invalidate his giving. Dude just sank $600 million into eradicating TB from the face of the earth. Do I respect that decision? Absolutely. Am I going to buy windows. Absolutely not.

I agree. Many people have an irrational hatred of Gates as person and will call him a "greedy b#stard" no matter what he does.

And if Jobs doesn't give or doesn't give nearly as much I don't think less of him. I'm not of the mindset that people *must* be charitable.

Both people have done a whole lot to get where they are today and who am I to judge what they do, or don't do, in their personal lives?


Lethal

[Lord Blackadder]

Hmmmmmv2 (http://theocacao.com/document.page/220)

Nice article...I like the last line best as a sum up of the whole thing.

[Aaon]

I think it is admirable the amoutn of money and time Bill Gates invests in charitable causes. His foundation has given literally billions of dollars to programs to improve lives in Africa, eradicate debilitating diseases, and educate the youth of America and beyond. He does good work because he can. I think some people will suggest that he does these things out of personal greed, or to bolster the image of Microsoft, but I can't imagine selecting my software solutions based onthe philanthropic efforts of the software company's founder. I will buy Apple products because I want and need them, and I will applaud Bill Gates for his truly amazing work. I also hope that Steve Jobs is making the anonymous contributions suggested in the article. Giving back to the society that helped make you what you are should be our responsibility. Helping others is our duty as good human beings.

[dejo]

You're damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Donate to charity "nonymously" (people know it's you) and you're accused to doing it to bolster your own image. Donate to charity anonymously and you're accused of not donating to charity at all.

[MacFan782040]

You're damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Donate to charity "nonymously" (people know it's you) and you're accused to doing it to bolster your own image. Donate to charity anonymously and you're accused of not donating to charity at all.

Exactly. Good Point.

[Applespider]

3) (Okay, this one is a bonus.) Most of these guys "wealth" is on paper in stocks and such. These are not things that can be cashed in easily. I would argue that, while they still have considerable wealth, they are not as rich as one might think.

That's an excellent point. Most of Jobs' wealth is in Apple stock and Pixar stock; if he hasn't sold much of it, then it's not really available to give away. Remember, the value of your investment can go down as well as up.

Gates has more 'liquid' value...

[Lord Blackadder]

Charity is about helping people out - not enhancing your image.

Nobody is obligated to donate to charities, even if they have a heck of a lot more money than they need. Come to think of it, all of us here have more money than we need, so are we all bad people because we don't give 1/2 our net worth to charities?

[wordmunger]

Gates waited for Microsoft to be the undisputed dominator of the OS world before he began his charitable ways. He was worth MUCH MORE than Jobs is now before he started giving in any significant manner.

This is not to say that all the recent giving by Gates doesn't do a good bit to settle the score -- it's more to say that the jury's still out on Jobs, and he could redeem himself quite admirably at some point in the future.

[portent]

At the moment, the vast majority of Steve's wealth (~$3 billion plus) is tied up in Pixar. He could sell it, of course, but he would lose his majority holding (http://corporate.pixar.com/EdgarDetail.cfm?CIK=1002114&FID=1193125-05-54111&SID=05-00#D10K_HTM_TX86503_20) of the company. Which would make it impossible for him to, for example, complete the Disney sale as proposed.

[Abstract]

Gates is a good human being. It's his software and company that I have a problem with. But on a personal level, he probably does care a lot more about this sort of thing than other CEOs.

[AlBDamned]

Gates is a legend for giving away this sort of money - and regardless of how good the software is, it's the sales of the software that has allowed him to do it. Also, I don't care how rich you are, giving away that sort of money cannot be sniffed at. I think it's too much to be for his publicity and certainly, it doesn't make windows more appealing.

Who knows, maybe Gates has had an epiphany and intends to give away all the interest on his fortune.

In contrast, Warren Buffet is on the board at Coca-Cola...

[iGary]

Who. Gives. A. ****?

If I'm a bazillionaire and I keep all my money - so what?

I hate it when people say rich folks are obligated to give their money away. :rolleyes:

[solvs]

Gates is a good human being.
I wouldn't say that. Read about his history, he's not exactly a saint. Most of the horrible things Microsoft has done was because of him. Not to mention he doesn't tip. His wife is the one who's giving away the money. Melinda and her parents run the charity. Gates has been filthy rich for years, and used to be chided for not giving away a red cent. Not saying he's the devil, but he's not a nice guy either.

Jobs does give money to charity. Not to mention all the work he does through Apple, and the fact that he only collects a dollar a year in actual money. Not to say he's a saint either, but I wouldn't call him greedy.

[Lord Blackadder]

Who. Gives. A. ****?

If I'm a bazillionaire and I keep all my money - so what?

I hate it when people say rich folks are obligated to give their money away. :rolleyes:

That's what I've said - philanthropy is great, but it shouldn't be done to please journalists or make you appear warm and fuzzy in the media.

With people like Bill and Steve it's not so much about the money IMO - it's more about spearheading new tech trends and being a major player in the industry. Like a giant game of Risk. :)

[bbrosemer]

Gates may be charitable but lets not forget who stole the idea from whom... of a graphically oriented OS... I dont think jobs stole anything.

[Timepass]

umm yeah.... and apple came up with the GUI system... Umm no..... they took it from some else. Xrox or something like that (dont know how to spell it and dont give hoot about it)

But really I think it good for the really rich to donate money and doing it publicly I think it is a good thing because normally they are huge sums of money and they can get the ball roling for others to donate in smaller sums (10-20 dollars that adds up fast). Plus they can supply the capital to get a ogination up and running.

[solvs]

umm yeah.... and apple came up with the GUI system... Umm no..... they took it from some else. Xrox or something like that (dont know how to spell it and dont give hoot about it)
Ummm... they were already working on a GUI and licensed tech from Xerox. Legally. Bill stole it and got away with it because of a loophole and because Apple trusted him. Do a search, this has been discussed ad naseum.

[Timepass]

Ummm... they were already working on a GUI and licensed tech from Xerox. Legally. Bill stole it and got away with it because of a loophole and because Apple trusted him. Do a search, this has been discussed ad naseum.

Oh not going to argue on those points. It just bothers me that everyone seems to believe that apple came up with the GUI. The fact stands niether Jobs nor Apple came up with the GUI system (or mouse keyboard in puts) Just to many people act like they did and no one really give Xerox crieted for coming up with the idea and laying the foundation for it.

Sorry slight pet peive of mine. but lets keep this tread on topic.

[solvs]

The fact stands niether Jobs nor Apple came up with the GUI system (or mouse keyboard in puts)
Neither did Xerox. http://arstechnica.com/articles/paedia/gui.ars ;) But I don't think Apple ever said they did. Gates definitely ripped off the Apple GUI though. The PARC wasn't the same, and like I said, Apple payed for it and hired a lot of the people working on it because Xerox didn't know what to do with it anyway.

Not off topic much, just making a point.

[w_parietti22]

Have you ever heard the story in the bible of the guy who gave a bunch of money to the poor and braged about it and the guy who gave a bunch of money and kept it to himself and then Jesus asked whom was more Christ like??? (or something like that)

Im not saying that Steve is a saint... but he does donate to charity. He just already has such a good image that he doesnt need to brag on the street corner about it.

ok another bible reference (sorry). You know the story of all the rich people donating loads of money to the church and then a women (who was very poor) and gave 2 small coins and it was all that she had.

Well I know this isnt the same... but Bill is worth about 40 billion and Steve is worth about 3. Its a much bigger deal for steve to give a million dollars than it is for Bill. In fact, for bill thats only .0025% of his money. For steve, its .033%.

[solvs]

That, and it's not Bill, it's Melinda. And I don't have a problem at all with her spending her husbands money, especially considering how he got it. Much better than her going all Paris Hilton or Anna Nicole. :p

[Counterfit]

Have you ever heard the story in the bible of the guy who gave a bunch of money to the poor and braged about it and the guy who gave a bunch of money and kept it to himself and then Jesus asked whom was more Christ like??? (or something like that)

Im not saying that Steve is a saint... but he does donate to charity. He just already has such a good image that he doesnt need to brag on the street corner about it.

ok another bible reference (sorry). You know the story of all the rich people donating loads of money to the church and then a women (who was very poor) and gave 2 small coins and it was all that she had.

Well I know this isnt the same... but Bill is worth about 40 billion and Steve is worth about 3. Its a much bigger deal for steve to give a million dollars than it is for Bill. In fact, for bill thats only .0025% of his money. For steve, its .033%.
The old widow (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%2021:2-4), The Rich Young Man (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2019%20:16-30;&version=31;) (not what you referenced to though).
Giving to the needy (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%206:1-4;&version=31;).
That is an awesome site for searching through almost every version of the Bible.

[Toreador93]

Who. Gives. A. ****?

If I'm a bazillionaire and I keep all my money - so what?

I hate it when people say rich folks are obligated to give their money away. :rolleyes:

Maybe it's a "thank you" to the community for allowing you to become so hideously rich. Maybe it's to give a helping hand to those you ruthlessly crushed on your way to the top.

Personally, I don't think anyone is worth millions of dollars more a year than anyone else. Do you seriously think anyone at Enron earned their money? They didn't even own a product. They were just the middle man. What about Trump? Should we applaud everytime he builds a building with his name on it? All he did was buy and sell buildings for a profit. He didn't improve the quality of life one iota.

I also feel this way about music artists and professional athletes. Yes they are entertaining, but I don't feel these people (nor their greedy puppeteers) deserve the millions of dollars they receive each year while doctors and scientists have to FIGHT for grants to continue life-changing research.

As for these computer giants, I agree they both revolutionized computer technology. However, Bill Gates and Steve Jobs did not do it by themselves. Yes, their idea, their direction, but without their programmers, we would have nothing but a piece of note paper. I think they do deserve to be millionaires, but no one should be worth hundreds of mililions or billions of dollars ahead of everyone else. In Japan (not sure if it's still true), CEOs would set their salary at 7-times the lowest worker's pay. It won't make the CEOs filthy rich, but it certainly raises the standard of living for all.

Think about this: people make fun of those who work in fast food or as garbage men (excuse me, sanitation engineers). And I agree, doctors and police men should make more than these people. However, what if everyone went to college, got engineering degrees, and wanted to become engineers. Who would cook our burgers!? There is a need for these people too, and I don't think they should be stepped on and forgotton.

[skytown205]

I applaud Bill Gates in this, even as, as someone stated in this thread, I don't choose to purchase Windows. Philanthropy plays a part in mitigating the huge economic disparities we find in the US. It's how so many of our great public institutions are supported. It helps keep the arts alive.

Steve Jobs has done wonders for Apple, and there's no doubt he is a true visionary....But as for his private life, I just don't know enough to pass judgment one way or the other. He keeps it rather private, for one thing, and I have no idea what drives him as a person beyond coming up with great products. Perhaps that's enough.

But--possibly unethical (and, more to the point, unimaginative) business practices aside--Gates is definitely to be commended in this. Melinda Gates, too--maybe more. It's so easy to forget that most people in the world have things so much more difficult than we do. Bill Gates is not a saint, but in this area he's making an effort. And a lot of people are thankful to him for it.

[2nyRiggz]

I dont give a rats arse who gives or who dont...give me and i'll be happy.


Bless

[Counterfit]

I applaud Bill Gates in this, even as, as someone stated in this thread, I don't choose to purchase Windows. Philanthropy plays a part in mitigating the huge economic disparities we find in the US. It's how so many of our great public institutions are supported. It helps keep the arts alive.
How much money from the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation goes to supporting the arts at all or destitute in the U.S.?

[skytown205]

How much money from the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation goes to supporting the arts at all or destitute in the U.S.?

None of it, so far as I know....I was just trying to make a point about the role of philanthropy in the US in general....Sorry for the confusion!

as a sort of tangent, did anyone see the article in the NY Times about charitable contributions in the US? Seems that the rich give much less, relatively speaking, than the middle class.

[Play Ultimate]

Have you ever heard the story in the bible of the guy who gave a bunch of money to the poor and braged about it and the guy who gave a bunch of money and kept it to himself and then Jesus asked whom was more Christ like??? (or something like that)

Im not saying that Steve is a saint... but he does donate to charity. He just already has such a good image that he doesnt need to brag on the street corner about it.

ok another bible reference (sorry). You know the story of all the rich people donating loads of money to the church and then a women (who was very poor) and gave 2 small coins and it was all that she had.

Well I know this isnt the same... but Bill is worth about 40 billion and Steve is worth about 3. Its a much bigger deal for steve to give a million dollars than it is for Bill. In fact, for bill thats only .0025% of his money. For steve, its .033%.

I was discussing the other day of "giving 'til it hurts." I know I don't. And I suspect none of the rich and famous do. Whereas, there are many poeple who have pursued missions and given away everything. Let's not let the large $$$ signs make us believe that the Gates are "more charitable."