Apple, Gobe and Future Office Software?

[MacRumors]

In Liberation.fr (http://www.liberation.fr/page.php?Article=80718), Jean-Louis Gassee (founder of Be, Inc.) writes about the state of Apple.

One interesting unknown tidbit that Gassee offers is that Apple recruited the team from GoBe (http://www.gobe.com) back in 2001.

GoBe (http://www.gobe.com) produced an office suite entitled GoBe Productive for Windows, Linux and BeOS platforms and made it to version 3.0. This software met positive reviews (http://www.techtv.com/screensavers/showtell/story/0,24330,3378739,00.html) in the press.

The software featured various word processing, page design, layout, drawing, and photo components:

Use the components separately - or combine them to experience a whole new level of productivity and power. Draw a "live" spreadsheet into your word processing page. Add an illustration and edit it on the spot. Turn the whole thing into a slide show. All the tools are at your fingertips in every document you create.

The concept is similar to a the ill-fated OpenDoc technology (http://developer.apple.com/techpubs/macos8/Legacy/OpenDoc/opendoc.html) which Apple pushed a few years ago. With no doubt, this rumor will spawn further speculation on an significant Appleworks update, which has been rumored.

[rainman::|:|]

It's about time... Appleworks works pretty well, IMHO, and i use it a lot. But Apple is known for taking things to the next level, and this is something that could really be taken further...

People don't want to be held back by computer restrictions anymore, they're tired of that after 25 years. they want the computer to do exactly what they want, which is more flexibility. which is what this provides, it sounds like...

:)
pnw

[kcmac]

GoBe sounds similar to Rag Time. GoBe is to Office as Safari is to IE. Small. Fast. Clean.

Also sounds like it has some compatability to Office as well as some other common formats. This could be interesting.

[yosoyjay]

I'm always excited to see a challenger to Office. Unfortunately, all of Office's competition does not make the grade. I've tried Appleworks and Staroffice and both are just not up to the task.

I hope this pans out.

[NicoMan]

arn, I know I am a bit off topic here, but it is Liberation.fr, not liberaration.fr.
But the link works, so that's no big deal...
(sorry to be a pain)

NicoMan

[Sol]

Apple could take it to the next level and if they really did contract a new development team then I am sure that the results will be interesting to say the least. The last Appleworks featured compatibility with OS X but other than that nothing really new was brought to the table. As for Office, it is something of an industry standard in the business world but that does not mean there is no demand for something better. If Apple was to release a product that could run on x86 hardware then they would trully be competing with Microsoft. When Apple releases similar software to Microsoft's for the Mac OS then at best they may dominate within their own user-base and at worse, may convince MS to stop releasing their software for OS X.

In this game of strategy there must be a contingency plan and I believe that the fabled "Marklar" is it. Should Microsoft ever pull out of the Mac market Apple would retaliate with a release of an OS X for x86 hardware. I doubt PeeCee users would miss Classic compatibility since the OS X software catalogue has matured in recent months. There are rumours that Marklar is intended to be the alternative OS for people who do not like anti-piracy limitations in Microsoft's forthcoming OS. If all this turns out to be true then I look forward to the day when OS X users are seen as seedy types who get up to no good with their computers (unlike the perfectly law abiding Windows users of course).:cool:

[bryng]

I remember reading that the iPod was released without any expectation as to what its success might be - the idea, roughly speaking, was to put it out there and see of it worked.

I can't help but draw parallels with Keynote here - put a product out to test the market and see what happens. Maybe without a built-in expectation of success.

If Keynote is a success, then maybe something like the GoBe software is what Apple would need to follow Keynote up quickly...

[taweili]

Watching Steve Jobs demoing Keynote in the MacWorld keynote brought back a lot of memory of NeXT. Keynot is a subset clone of the excellent presentation software Concurrence from LightHouse. Along with Concurrence, LightHouse has produced a suite of productivities for NeXT. The following are the screenshots for them:

OpenWrite (http://www.levenez.com/NeXTSTEP/OpenWrite.gif) : Word Processor
Concurrence (http://www.levenez.com/NeXTSTEP/Concurrence.gif[): Presentation
Quantrix (http://www.levenez.com/NeXTSTEP/Quantrix.gif): Spreadsheet
TaskMaster (http://www.levenez.com/NeXTSTEP/TaskMaster.gif): Scheduling and Project management

These are excellent software. Lighthouse Design was bought by Sun in 1996 and these applications went away. Seeing Keynote remaining me a lot of Concurrence and got me to boot up my NeXT Cube for the first time in 5 years.

The best I could hope for is for someone in Sun to open up the source to these application in open source and this would be just a dream.

If Apple was to acquire productivities software, why acqure it from GoBe instead of Sun who owns LightHouse's source codes.

On the other note, if someone knows how I can get into contact with people in Sun who may know something about these treasures they have, please contact me at taweili@yahoo.com. I'd like to write them to see if we can get them to open up and codes. I'd really want to see these applications on OS X.

[NicoMan]

Originally posted by Sol
The last Appleworks featured compatibility with OS X but other than that nothing really new was brought to the table
As much as I hear people talking (you know the ones that are so rabid about Microsoft, etc...) about how great Appleworks is, etc, the only thing I know (I have never used it on my iBook) is that it feels like OS 9 or lower, not even that. It doesn't look like a serious proposition. I cannot see anyone honestly being impressed by AppleWorks after buying a few thousand dollars (pounds, euros ?) machine all nice and shiny with a beautiful OS, Aqua looks and all.

If it is an Appleworks upgrade we are talking about, well I think it is about time. If it is a new productline supposed to take on Office, well I'm all for it but that is a risky proposition...

NicoMan

[GeneR]

Originally posted by Sol
Apple could take it to the next level and if they really did contract a new development team then I am sure that the results will be interesting to say the least. The last Appleworks featured compatibility with OS X but other than that nothing really new was brought to the table. As for Office, it is something of an industry standard in the business world but that does not mean there is no demand for something better. If Apple was to release a product that could run on x86 hardware then they would trully be competing with Microsoft. When Apple releases similar software to Microsoft's for the Mac OS then at best they may dominate within their own user-base and at worse, may convince MS to stop releasing their software for OS X.

In this game of strategy there must be a contingency plan and I believe that the fabled "Marklar" is it. Should Microsoft ever pull out of the Mac market Apple would retaliate with a release of an OS X for x86 hardware. I doubt PeeCee users would miss Classic compatibility since the OS X software catalogue has matured in recent months. There are rumours that Marklar is intended to be the alternative OS for people who do not like anti-piracy limitations in Microsoft's forthcoming OS. If all this turns out to be true then I look forward to the day when OS X users are seen as seedy types who get up to no good with their computers (unlike the perfectly law abiding Windows users of course).:cool:

I like the Marklar idea. But If it is launched than perhaps it should be bundled with a very Office-esque Appleworks. In that way perhaps Apple can sell the OS with all the bells and whistles to consumers, businesses and to PC makers that would undercut Microsoft's sales. I know it may cut into Apple's hardware line, but there is such a strong consumer base for Apple (in terms of loyalty) I wonder if these numbers would really change. Apple makes the best hardware (despite the Mhz arguments) and perhaps that would protect its hardware sales if Marklar does become a reality. Who knows? It'd be nice to see Apple's OS spreading like a virus through the PC world changing PCs into Mac Converts. Until something like this (hopefully) happens, I'll just be happy to hear more Switcher stories.

[iJon]

Originally posted by Sol
Apple could take it to the next level and if they really did contract a new development team then I am sure that the results will be interesting to say the least. The last Appleworks featured compatibility with OS X but other than that nothing really new was brought to the table. As for Office, it is something of an industry standard in the business world but that does not mean there is no demand for something better. If Apple was to release a product that could run on x86 hardware then they would trully be competing with Microsoft. When Apple releases similar software to Microsoft's for the Mac OS then at best they may dominate within their own user-base and at worse, may convince MS to stop releasing their software for OS X.

In this game of strategy there must be a contingency plan and I believe that the fabled "Marklar" is it. Should Microsoft ever pull out of the Mac market Apple would retaliate with a release of an OS X for x86 hardware. I doubt PeeCee users would miss Classic compatibility since the OS X software catalogue has matured in recent months. There are rumours that Marklar is intended to be the alternative OS for people who do not like anti-piracy limitations in Microsoft's forthcoming OS. If all this turns out to be true then I look forward to the day when OS X users are seen as seedy types who get up to no good with their computers (unlike the perfectly law abiding Windows users of course).:cool:
well they are already half there. apple already has appleworks 6 foe windows. Now they just something that will compete.

iJon

[lolajl]

Originally posted by NicoMan

If it is an Appleworks upgrade we are talking about, well I think it is about time. If it is a new productline supposed to take on Office, well I'm all for it but that is a risky proposition...

NicoMan

I use Appleworks and I agree. I would buy MS Office, except that the price is a bit rich for my blood. I've got OpenOffice loaded on my PB but the GUI is still very kludgy and I'm waiting for the Aquafied version before I will really give it a workout.

It would be great if we could get a drastically enhanced Appleworks version later this year. Shame on Corel for pulling out of the word processing for Macs!

[Anecdoter]

Originally posted by lolajl

It would be great if we could get a drastically enhanced Appleworks version later this year. Shame on Corel for pulling out of the word processing for Macs!

I had contacted Corel about nine months ago and asked them if they were going to release WordPerfect for OS X. They responded by saying that it was already being considered. I took it as a polite way to blow me off, but perhaps if enough people wrote them they might look at the issue more seriously.

Speaking of NeXT apps, there is also two good programs from Anderson Financial Systems - WriteUp and PasteUp, a word processor and a page layout application. Both of these ran on Openstep and I know the company was considering porting these to OS X. However, according to their web page now says that there are no current plans to port them to OS X... oh well.

[taweili]

Originally posted by Anecdoter
Speaking of NeXT apps, there is also two good programs from Anderson Financial Systems - WriteUp and PasteUp, a word processor and a page layout application. Both of these ran on Openstep and I know the company was considering porting these to OS X. However, according to their web page now says that there are no current plans to port them to OS X... oh well.

WriteUp and PasteUp, I haven't heard of these two names for such long time. Could you give me their Web site? www.afs.com seems to linked to some telefloral shop now. I'd love to see those two on Mac OS X.

There are a lot of great apps produced for NeXTSTEP. It would be great if we could see some of them gets ported to OS X.

[Kid Red]

Originally posted by yosoyjay
I'm always excited to see a challenger to Office. Unfortunately, all of Office's competition does not make the grade. I've tried Appleworks and Staroffice and both are just not up to the task.

I hope this pans out.

Have you tried Hancom Office? If not, then you can't say all.

[wumpus]

Was decisive in ensuring that Apple did not licence MacOS when it mattered - so is no angel in the platform's history...Be's fate is more than a little tragic, though...

[msascha]

Take a look at:

http://www.gobe.com/company.html

The interesting part:

<cite>
Gobe Software, Inc. is a privately held company founded in 1997 by the team that created ClarisWorks (now AppleWorks).
</cite>

[arrakis]

From an article found at arstechnica:
(http://arstechnica.com/archive/news/1039309820.html)

Will there be a grassroots effort to raise the funds? Perhaps, but Lindsey himself notes one important thing to keep in mind: all of the original programmers have moved on to other projects (Lindsey is now at Apple). One might wonder why Gobe wouldn't just let the code go for free. Apparently the company has a line of creditors waiting to be paid; in that respect, the code is likely considered an asset, and as such is subject to bankruptcy laws and the like.

Maybe Apple is working on a complete Office suite based on Gobe office...

[thies]

"Maybe Apple is working on a complete Office suite based on Gobe office..."

HINT! Apple does not own the intellectual property of Gobe. They merely hired former Gobe employees. Thus, an office suite based on Gobe Productve ain't going to happen. :rolleyes:

[arrakis]

How do you know apple did not buy it, this may be a reason why Freeradical did not succed

[paulyester]

I worked with them at claris. They left after version 5.

Under the Claris contract, they got royalties and made tons of money (250K+ for the principals).

They also had a lot of autonomy, and lived in Vancouver WA, which created major managment headaches.

They're brilliant engineers, but PITA's to work with.

[Centris 650]

I agree Appleworks is a little too OS 8.5 or 9. When I upgraded to Jaguar I expected AW to be overhauled. I really think Steve-O has something planned. The next Appleworks should really be something to see.

If Apple does make an office suite then I hope it's as intergrated as the iLife software.

[arrakis]

And paulyester:

What do you think they are planing now with apple? Do you have any idea?


by the way, you have to know, Vancouver is not in the USA (WA), it's in Canada, B.C

[MOSiX Man]

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned this before... I wonder if some of the work the GoBe team did, made it's way into Keynote. If so, might they have also helped lay groundwork for other apps to compete against MS Office?

[MOSiX Man]

by the way, you have to know, Vancouver is not in the USA (WA), it's in Canada, B.C

Uh, yeah. But it's also in Washington state. Hoser. ;)

[whiskeybravo]

This could really get interesting. Lets see, Gobe was started by ex-clarisworks developers, some recruiting activity by Apple in 2001, Gobe folds in late 2002 and proposes open source release of code, code release doesn't happen, Apple snaps up some Gobe developers...

In pure connect the dots terms, this non-rumor has more basis in reality than most. Almost certainly Appleworks will be updated fairly soon. Will it be a full office productivity set of applications (available individually of course) or an integrated mini-suite? Will Apple dare have direct office compatibility or is it a safer bet that they will continue to let MacLinks carry that burden?

[backspinner]

Originally posted by msascha
The interesting part:

On their website: Currently we are unable to fulfill orders for our products. Sorry for the inconvenience.

Maybe they are busy with something else?

[FattyMembrane]

has anyone seen the latest screenshots for nisus writer X? apparently nisus aquired okito composer and has built a cocoa version of writer. it looks feature rich and rather inexpensive compared to word. i would not mind a keynote, nisus, mesa bundle.

[MOSiX Man]

What do you mean "Will Apple dare have direct office compatibility..."?!?! What do you call Keynote? I think Keynote was a warning shot across Microsoft's bow. I hope it was prelude to much, much more.

[GeneR]

Originally posted by MOSiX Man
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned this before... I wonder if some of the work the GoBe team did, made it's way into Keynote. If so, might they have also helped lay groundwork for other apps to compete against MS Office?

I sure hope you're right. That would be cool if you could have an Office-type app that outdid Office and allowed yout work with your iLife apps. I don't exactly know how that would really help the Office apps unless you wanted to simply drag and drop pictures, music, and movies into word processing docs, or spreadsheets. I know we have Filemaker Pro on OSX but what about OOP databases for OSX? Something like MySQL maybe? Who knows? Anyway, if you could drag and drop material from any app to another, I think that would be a major accomplishment. I just wonder how useful it would be. (Perhaps you could create webpage links in your docs that launched music files? I don't know.)

[Toe]

Apple Products which obviate the need for MS Office: Safari
Mail.app
Keynote
iCal
AddressBookAll that leaves to replace are Word and Excel. Here's hoping Apple is going to release a complete line of Office-killers soon.

And note that OS X Server is serious competition for the server market because it is robust, high-performance, scalable, open-source, and had UNLIMITED users compared to MS charging a ton for each seat. And it is FREE with purchase of Xserve.

How long till major Enterprises wake up one day and find that they can save millions every year by switching to Macs? Yes, that's single-source hardware, but from a company that makes really top-notch hardware. And right now they're using single-source software from a company that can't release a program without including "thousands of bugs" (their own words). With Macs, Enterprises' software would be mostly open-source, if they chose. Or they could use Apple's really solid, well-programed software.

And by the way, here are some more Office killers: http://www.openoffice.org/
http://www.thinkfree.com/
http://marinersoftware.com/siteproduct.php
http://www.besoftware.com/

[FlamDrag]

While Apple might make the worlds greatest office-ish suite of applications, it's not going to kill office. The zillions of MS folks out there will still be using MSOffice and anyone using Apple's office suite will have to convert docs back and forth. I already have enough formatting isses b/w office for mac and office for windows. The only way it would be any better is if Apple managed to have AppleOffice play better with Windows office than MSOffice for Mac plays with Windows office.

The file compatibility issue will still remain. My version of Keynote is on the way. If it doesn't play well with PowerPoint on the PC, I'll never be able to use it.

For switchers, the big problem is familiarity (from where I stand anyway). People ask me all the time "Does it run _____?" 50% the time that blank is filled with "Office". If I were to answer, "no, they have something better" the conversation would end. "No, Apple has something better" seems to be the mac enthusiast creed, but to Windows users it's just fluff.

Any MSOffice competition from apple will have to be substantually better AND substantually cheaper than office for many switchers to buy it otherwise they'll buy what they're used to buying. Common sense / logic / better application aside, people like what is familar.

The Apple enthusiast creed needs to change. "Everything your PC Does and More" instead of "Everything your PC Does...but different."

For those of you who can live in an Apple only world, groovy for you. You're few and far between.

[JW Pepper]

Access, Publisher and Front Page.

Don't laugh MS makes a lot of money selling these applications and people love them becuse they are familer with the interface.

[MOSiX Man]

Many in the server rooms are already getting sick of Microsoft. Not only do you have to pay for each OS license for servers and workstations, but there are seperate licenses for clients to connect to domain controllers, file servers, Exchange services, database services, etc...

What's worse is that now, with XP and .Net, licenses will require payment, for repeated reactivation, as MS sees fit. Not to mention the whole concept of apps being solely "pay for play" .Net services.

[Toe]

Originally posted by FlamDrag
While Apple might make the worlds greatest office-ish suite of applications, it's not going to kill office. The zillions of MS folks out there will still be using MSOffice and anyone using Apple's office suite will have to convert docs back and forth. I already have enough formatting isses b/w office for mac and office for windows.
I very much agree. BUT... that's exactly what people said about WordPerfect and Lotus 123. How many people use those programs now?

[GeneR]

Originally posted by FlamDrag
While Apple might make the worlds greatest office-ish suite of applications, it's not going to kill office. The zillions of MS folks out there will still be using MSOffice and anyone using Apple's office suite will have to convert docs back and forth. I already have enough formatting isses b/w office for mac and office for windows. The only way it would be any better is if Apple managed to have AppleOffice play better with Windows office than MSOffice for Mac plays with Windows office.

The file compatibility issue will still remain. My version of Keynote is on the way. If it doesn't play well with PowerPoint on the PC, I'll never be able to use it.

For switchers, the big problem is familiarity (from where I stand anyway). People ask me all the time "Does it run _____?" 50% the time that blank is filled with "Office". If I were to answer, "no, they have something better" the conversation would end. "No, Apple has something better" seems to be the mac enthusiast creed, but to Windows users it's just fluff.

Any MSOffice competition from apple will have to be substantually better AND substantually cheaper than office for many switchers to buy it otherwise they'll buy what they're used to buying. Common sense / logic / better application aside, people like what is familar.

The Apple enthusiast creed needs to change. "Everything your PC Does and More" instead of "Everything your PC Does...but different."

For those of you who can live in an Apple only world, groovy for you. You're few and far between.

I think you make some really good points. Familiarity is key here. Why would anyone want to relearn how to do something as simple as working with a word processing program? Or for that matter, a spreadsheet? Not me. And I'm a real Apple fanatic in many respects. I avoid my Appleworks 5 spreadsheet like the plague because I'm too comfortable with Excel.

Now, on the otherhand, to have the exact same functionality of Excel (details count here such as quick keys, interaction with the cells, etc.) but improved significantly and to have seamless integration with all Excel programs on PC, then I would consider the program no matter who the vendor is. How can that be done? I don't know.

Maybe OpenOffice will be the answer once they Aquafied their interface. Maybe not. The idea of a free Office program sounds about right: it would be worth my while to download the program for free knowing that the trade off was that I would be spending my time acquainting myself to the new program. That's what got me onto Appleworks 5 since it was on my Mac OS disk.

Perhaps open source will be the answer here? Isn't that how Linux became as popular and as well publicized as it did? How many companies across the country or even in the world, when faced with the option of upgrading to the next gen or Office wouldn't mind some of their company tinkering with a free open source office program?

Maybe Apple should consider this as an avenue to improving Appleworks: Make it open source and then see about making it work on PC's as well?

Afterwards, Apple could add bells and whistle to special Mac Only versions with later releases for PC's? Hmmm. I dunno. Just mumbling out loud.

[Rocketman]

Originally posted by GeneR


I think you make some really good points. Familiarity is key here. Why would anyone want to relearn how to do something as simple as working with a word processing program? Or for that matter, a spreadsheet? Not me. And I'm a real Apple fanatic in many respects. I avoid my Appleworks 5 spreadsheet like the plague because I'm too comfortable with Excel.

Now, on the otherhand, to have the exact same functionality of Excel (details count here such as quick keys, interaction with the cells, etc.) but improved significantly and to have seamless integration with all Excel programs on PC, then I would consider the program no matter who the vendor is. How can that be done? I don't know.


There was a word processor called Sprint (perhpas from Borland) that had featuritis. It could have a GUI similar in function and feel to several other word processors (wordstar, word perfect, word, some others). This made switching seamless and any feature not available in your native environment was available by accessing the native sprint form factor.

Something like that for the Mac would be PERFECT for the whole switcher target market. Excel users would not have to relearn methods to use the product or the platform.

Rocketman

[MOSiX Man]

Originally posted by FlamDrag
The Apple enthusiast creed needs to change. "Everything your PC Does and More" instead of "Everything your PC Does...but different."

I think you are on to something. But lets make it "Everything your PC does and much, much more!"

How about just "Work Different"

I agree that familiarity is a stong reason for people not to switch to a new app that basically does what they can already do. But Keynote looks like a good example of an app that can do much more than it's competitor, do it much more easily, and much more consistently.

As somebody else said, most people only use the basics of Office, because it's to much of a pain to learn the rest. That's where Apple's productivity software could shine -- offering a program that is easy and intuitive to use, along with being feature rich and compatible with MS Office.

[eric_n_dfw]

Maybe Apple will buy the Microsoft Mac Business Unit and the rights to Mac Office.


And maybe monkeys will fly out of my ars.

[MOSiX Man]

Originally posted by eric_n_dfw
Maybe Apple will buy the Microsoft Mac Business Unit and the rights to Mac Office.


And maybe monkeys will fly out of my ars.

Yeah, right! And maybe Apple will come out with a killer, new app that blows Powerpoint out of the water! Hah!

[Toe]

Originally posted by MOSiX Man
How about just "Work Different"
How about "Think Better"

Afterall, Mac users are smarter, eh?

Think that might enhance the myth that Mac users are somehow snobby?? :D

[iShater]

Originally posted by JW Pepper
Access, Publisher and Front Page.

Don't laugh MS makes a lot of money selling these applications and people love them becuse they are familer with the interface.

I agree, I will miss Access the most when I 'switch'. Also don't forget MS Project.

[paulyester]

Vancouver WA is across the river from Portland OR.

As far as the Appleworks code base becoming open source, you'd be better off starting from scratch. Between the attempt to OpenDocify it and the quest to make it cross platform, it has so many hacks and patches and wierdnesses in it that you'd go insane trying to figure out what the hell was going on.

[GeneR]

Originally posted by paulyester
Vancouver WA is across the river from Portland OR.

As far as the Appleworks code base becoming open source, you'd be better off starting from scratch. Between the attempt to OpenDocify it and the quest to make it cross platform, it has so many hacks and patches and wierdnesses in it that you'd go insane trying to figure out what the hell was going on.

Maybe the many talented programmers at SourceForge.net and elsewhere on the net who are real Mac fans will work in this direction: Creating a cross platform Office replacement that would be free. Maybe I'm just stating what is already happening with OpenOffice. I dunno. I don't have Jaguar at this moment and I don't have OpenOffice. And OpenOffice, from the sound of it, is still working on developing its Aqua interface.

Maybe change is in the air and we don't even know about it. It's kind of like those still days when there isn't a cloud in the sky and the air is very still. Isn't that earthquake weather? The prelude before the tremor? Does the seed of innovation via free software need to take root in the general business and private sector before concensus can be achieved?

Once again, I don't know. Wishful thinking, I suppose. I'd just like to see Apple utilizing the feedback of its customer base, and all the input and contributions of the Open Source Movement of programmers and al. to really live up to the potential of "thinking different".

If as a corporation, Apple is able to harness the tremendous number of people who are interested in seeing Apple pull ahead, or (at the very least) to see Microsoft lose its monopoly status, I would think that the expression of "thinking different" will mean thinking creatively, challenging traditional roles of corporation and public volunteers to really start some new trends. If this means starting a new AppleWorks from stratch by creating a volunteer network (maybe with an Apple.net type meeting place) of talented programmers then would the possibility of creating an Office-type app would be able to really take root? Instead of limiting the programming tasks to just the very talented people at Apple, maybe it would be better to harness the power of these programmers around the world whom want to say something with their skills: if anything that they are sick of MS monopoly and "don't want to take it anymore."

Once again, Apple's probably already doing this, I'm probably just unaware of it, I'm just babbling like and idiot, and stating what might already be happening. Maybe. But then again, I just don't know. Feedback on this topic would be very appreciated. Thanks. :)

[Toe]

This article says as soon as MW/January. Obviously that ain't happening, but it hopefully will be pretty soon...

http://www.thinksecret.com/news/appleworks.html

[MacKid]

Originally posted by Sol
Apple could take it to the next level and if they really did contract a new development team then I am sure that the results will be interesting to say the least. The last Appleworks featured compatibility with OS X but other than that nothing really new was brought to the table. As for Office, it is something of an industry standard in the business world but that does not mean there is no demand for something better. If Apple was to release a product that could run on x86 hardware then they would trully be competing with Microsoft. When Apple releases similar software to Microsoft's for the Mac OS then at best they may dominate within their own user-base and at worse, may convince MS to stop releasing their software for OS X.

In this game of strategy there must be a contingency plan and I believe that the fabled "Marklar" is it. Should Microsoft ever pull out of the Mac market Apple would retaliate with a release of an OS X for x86 hardware. I doubt PeeCee users would miss Classic compatibility since the OS X software catalogue has matured in recent months. There are rumours that Marklar is intended to be the alternative OS for people who do not like anti-piracy limitations in Microsoft's forthcoming OS. If all this turns out to be true then I look forward to the day when OS X users are seen as seedy types who get up to no good with their computers (unlike the perfectly law abiding Windows users of course).:cool:

I think Marklar will not come for a long, long time (if ever), because Apple's whole game is that they control everything; the hardware, the software, everything. If they allowed Mac OS X to be put on PCs, they'd have the same problems that Windows has: hardware driver incompatibilities, possible crashing because of x86 architecture, and they would lose a huge chunk of their hardware sales.:(

[MacKid]

Originally posted by FlamDrag
The file compatibility issue will still remain. My version of Keynote is on the way. If it doesn't play well with PowerPoint on the PC, I'll never be able to use it.


I have good news and bad news. . .

The good news:

Keynote saves to the same .ppt file format, so PCs will be able to watch the presentation with no conversion required.:D

The bad news:

From my experience with PCs, the PowerPoint for Windows has no transitions that even come close to the QuickTime-based transitions built into Keynote, therefore, some of the transitions will not be viewable on PCs, and you might have to change them to the ones that the PC has.:(

[cryptochrome]

Originally posted by Toe
[B]Apple Products which obviate the need for MS Office: Safari
Mail.app
Keynote
iCal
AddressBookAll that leaves to replace are Word and Excel. Here's hoping Apple is going to release a complete line of Office-killers soon.


You forgot Access.

Actually, I'm not really happy with ANY database I've worked with. All of them have fixed fields, none of them incorporate the record structure flexibility of XML. I suppose you could just pop XML in a database but searching it would be a PITA.

The only exception? Apple's very own Address Book, although it's special purpose software and format. The "edit" window interface is just brilliant - flexible and wastes no space at all. Unfortunately apple won't release the source code, which is regular cocoa but somewhat non-trivial to implement apparently.

[mk_in_mke]

I am a die-hard mac user (mostly pro app such as FCP and AE)... I do use the MS office... Guys be honest: this is a good suite of app for everyday business as well as more complicated Stuff. Excel is a good program , Powerpoint sucks...

Apple is now at a point where they have nothing to prove in terms of hardware (they are simply the best). In terms of software, I do have a lot of trouble seeing Apple's strategy when it comes to productivity suites. And from what I am reading here and there in the forum, everyone has.

Apple is inserting slowly but surely one application at a time (Iapps,Keynote, Browser...) is it a good strategy? We want to kick Bill's butt: is it a good way to handle the issue?

All of us want everything right here right now but I have the strong feeling that applications such as Word processing and Spreadsheet are not going to be seen pretty soon as separate apps (appleworks does not appear as a serious contender to Word/Excel). Unless Apple sells more units and get a better market share...

[Toe]

Originally posted by cryptochrome
You forgot Access.And you forgot to mention what a piece of crap Access is. :p

I believe I've read that FileMaker is the most popular, non-bundled database software on Windows. Sure, many more use Access, but 99.999987% of them hate every minute of it.

In even better news, FileMaker is completely re-writing FMP for version 7. I'm guessing that compatibility will be a major target here, just like with all other current Apple initiatives. And I would also guess that it's going to be SQL-based.

I wouldn't be surprised if FMP7 had some utility for converting Access databases directly.

[cubist]

Originally posted by MOSiX Man

How about just "Work Different"


Please, no.

Think Different was bad enough. It made people think Apple was run by uneducated people. In a sense it can be considered grammatical ("Think... New! Think... Blue! Think... Different!"), but most people regarded it as merely incorrect ("it should be Think Differently"). There is no stretch of grammar that can make "Work Different" grammatically correct.

If we're going to sloganize, how about: "Not just different... Better."

[Sol]

Think different may be bad grammar but in the world of marketing slogans it is not that bad and at least Apple targets adults who would know better. The stuff that irritates me is products aimed at kids with horrible spelling done on purpose but this is a topic for another forum.

As for an Office-like bundle, Appleworks is not it. Frankly I do not like bundles and would rather buy a word processor on its own (yes, I know Word is available on its own).

I would rather Apple focus on innovative hardware and their Digital Lifestyle software than trying to be the "I can't believe its not Microsoft" of the computer industry. Apple has better software when it comes to multi-media and operating systems. Let Microsoft worry about paragraph formatting & spelling mistakes (which they would find plenty of in this post alone).

[Toe]

Originally posted by Sol
I would rather Apple focus on innovative hardware and their Digital Lifestyle software than trying to be the "I can't believe its not Microsoft" of the computer industry. Apple has better software when it comes to multi-media and operating systems. Let Microsoft worry about paragraph formatting & spelling mistakes (which they would find plenty of in this post alone). The only problem is that Microsoft makes such lousy software.

The majority of my company's support tickets can be directly attributed to Microsoft's shoddy programming.

Look at their version upgrades, where they invariably say that this release fixes "thousands of bugs." What they're actually saying is that the software they sold you two years ago has countless known bugs in it, and they want to charge you to fix those (and give you a few thousand new ones).

If Apple doesn't take up the torch, then someone better. Mebby we all need to join the OpenOffice project and contribute what we can, though it seems to need more programmers more than anything.

[iJon]

Originally posted by Toe
The only problem is that Microsoft makes such lousy software.

The majority of my company's support tickets can be directly attributed to Microsoft's shoddy programming.

Look at their version upgrades, where they invariably say that this release fixes "thousands of bugs." What they're actually saying is that the software they sold you two years ago has countless known bugs in it, and they want to charge you to fix those (and give you a few thousand new ones).

If Apple doesn't take up the torch, then someone better. Mebby we all need to join the OpenOffice project and contribute what we can, though it seems to need more programmers more than anything.
Now i get to see how their latest and greatest is. I am installing Windows 2003 .Net Server. If it is any better than xp(which will be hard to top) i will changing os's on my pc.

iJon

[GeneR]

Originally posted by Sol

I would rather Apple focus on innovative hardware and their Digital Lifestyle software than trying to be the "I can't believe its not Microsoft" of the computer industry. Apple has better software when it comes to multi-media and operating systems. Let Microsoft worry about paragraph formatting & spelling mistakes (which they would find plenty of in this post alone).

I liked the "I can't believe it's not Microsoft", mind if I use it? Pretty funny.

[Centris 650]

Originally posted by Sol

I would rather Apple focus on innovative hardware and their Digital Lifestyle software than trying to be the "I can't believe its not Microsoft" of the computer industry. Apple has better software when it comes to multi-media and operating systems. Let Microsoft worry about paragraph formatting & spelling mistakes (which they would find plenty of in this post alone).

That would be putting all their proverbial eggs in one proverbial basket. In this market a company can't afford to "specialize" anymore. That's why you have companies expanding and entering markets that they've never been in before.

[Toe]

Originally posted by Centris 650
That would be putting all their proverbial eggs in one proverbial basket. In this market a company can't afford to "specialize" anymore. That's why you have companies expanding and entering markets that they've never been in before. Indeed, the Xserve isn't exactly a digital lifestyle device.

Can you see someone hauling a computer cart behind them with a big, screamingly-loud Xserve on it, and some earphones plugged in?

"WHAT?!? I can't hear you!!! I'm trying to listen to Pearl Jam but it sounds like a really loud fan!!! What?!?"

[Sol]

Indeed big companies like Apple must try to enter new markets but not without carefully selecting them. The iPod was a brilliant product because of its tight integration with the iTunes software and the innovative use of various technologies - I do not think a hard-drive based MP3 player that synchronised and got recharged through a FireWire connection existed prior to its release. After the Windows version got out there a whole new market opened up for Apple.

What worries me is that as Apple's software catalogue grows bigger and more diverse some of the focus will be lost. While the Keynote software seems more advanced than the competition, I do not believe there was a hole that needed filling. I am taking a guess here but i think Keynote's release was motivated by corporate politics aimed at Microsoft's domination within the Mac market.

While many Mac users will applaud anything that might hurt Microsoft I do not wish to see Apple resort to Microsoft's methods. By releasing their own browser, productivity suite, instant chat client, eMail client, multimedia player, MP3 browser, DVD authoring, video editor, image editor/organiser and a whole other catalogue of applications Apple is becoming a monopoly within their own market, which is exactly what inspired so much resistance towards Microsoft's products in the first place.

I can't believe it's not Microsoft indeed!

In my opinion what Apple should do is focus on making OS X an even more attractive proposition for the software industry - give developers better incentives to port software to the Mac, and when they do resist from competing with them head-on (like the latest Sherlock application did to Watson). Should Apple ever release the fabled Marklar (OS X for x86 hardware) all the incentive in the world would be there for developers to support our platform, and best of all, Apple can keep releasing its own PPC based hardware (there will always be people who prefer Apple's sleek designs over Dell's rubbish).

[GeneR]

Originally posted by Sol
What worries me is that as Apple's software catalogue grows bigger and more diverse some of the focus will be lost. While the Keynote software seems more advanced than the competition, I do not believe there was a hole that needed filling. I am taking a guess here but i think Keynote's release was motivated by corporate politics aimed at Microsoft's domination within the Mac market.

While many Mac users will applaud anything that might hurt Microsoft I do not wish to see Apple resort to Microsoft's methods. By releasing their own browser, productivity suite, instant chat client, eMail client, multimedia player, MP3 browser, DVD authoring, video editor, image editor/organiser and a whole other catalogue of applications Apple is becoming a monopoly within their own market, which is exactly what inspired so much resistance towards Microsoft's products in the first place.

I can't believe it's not Microsoft indeed!

In my opinion what Apple should do is focus on making OS X an even more attractive proposition for the software industry - give developers better incentives to port software to the Mac, and when they do resist from competing with them head-on (like the latest Sherlock application did to Watson). Should Apple ever release the fabled Marklar (OS X for x86 hardware) all the incentive in the world would be there for developers to support our platform, and best of all, Apple can keep releasing its own PPC based hardware (there will always be people who prefer Apple's sleek designs over Dell's rubbish).

I agree with you, Sol, about the fact that there will always be people who prefer Mac's design over Dells. That's why I believe that tha Marklar idea would not hurt Apple's hardware line, but may give people options.

SCENARIO: A PC junkie is working awayat his or her computer and finds that they have faced just about the last straw with Windows glitches, etc. Rather than lament their decision to go PC, they also have OSX on their computers and choose to reboot into it. Immediately, (since they have both in a side-by-side taste comparison) the PC guy/gal gets to see what they could REALLY be doing with their PCs. Because they may not have any significant financial bar to entry and trying OSX they make the switch. And that leads to finally considering simply switching into the Hardware (once people are hooked, why wouldn't they want both the software and the hardware?)

I agree that Apple should not try to become another Microsoft in terms of monopolizing the software market. But then again, I see most of their work at this point as self-defense against the fact that they have had to rely on others over the years to come up with competitive software to rival that on the PC platform. And in order to control the time line of such releases, they may have had to resort to taking a more hands on role. Maybe? I dunno. Just my point of view.

But I guess the real question I have is: If we all want Apple to succeed, how can it penetrate the PC markets in an attractive manner without Marklar? Is there another enticement like the iPod? Another digital lifestyle gadget that's going to make people want to reconsider the Apple logo? I dunno. Seems that most PC people may be living in a real sense of ignorance of the changes that have been going on at Apple with OSX. To brainstorm that point: What will make PC people reconsider?

:confused: