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Chimaera
Jan 15, 2003, 03:17 AM
Hi there - I've pretty much decided on the 12" powerbook for myself (I was plannig on buying the 12"iBook before, but this is a far better option for me) and I have a single question, more from idle curiosity than anything else - the previous powerbooks all incorperated a smll internal battery, enough to enable the hot-swapping of a battery while the PB was in sleep mode - is this feature still on the 12"?

It doesn't especially matter, but it will come in handy if it does (the PB will be doing a lot of travelling with me)

hs-l
Jan 15, 2003, 05:07 AM
no, this one doesn't have this option,
and as far is i know none of the powerbooks (at least G4 powerbooks) had this option!...
but 10.2 starts up really fast so, i suggest shut down in time, won't be a big problem would it..?

Chimaera
Jan 15, 2003, 05:51 AM
Depends on your definition of really fast - personally I find OSX to be very slow at booting next to my WinXP box. And the early TiBooks at least had this feature :)

pgulliver
Jan 15, 2003, 12:26 PM
Hey--

I'm about to switch. My only question is buy the new 12" now or wait until an updated Al15" appears. Tough call. I'm planning on having this system for about four years as I go through Grad School, starting next fall. It will be my primary system. I'm looking for something I can easily bring to classes, library, etc, as well as work from home doing research and writing.

My main concern is screen size and portability. Does anyone have experience with the 12" iBook? What did you all think of that screen size? Is it large enought to be useful, or wil the eye strain kill someone? What about portability? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Peter

SPG
Jan 15, 2003, 12:59 PM
I've used the 12" ibook for a while for business and meetings on the road and I thought it was great. The screen is big enough for that sort of thing and the portability is great, really nice to be able to carry it around all day, but it ain't no desktop. If you like having things all over the place and lots of windows open, you might prefer the regular tibook.
I'm going to pick up the 12" AI in a couple months.

Glossybear
Jan 15, 2003, 01:02 PM
I've been using a 12" Dual USB ibook from work for a couple of months now. And I LOVE it. The size is great for portability and the screen is plenty big for what I do with it: Surfing/FMP/Office.

Though lately I've been doing some webdesign with Dreamweaver and stuff, and I find the screen a little cramped for this. with DW, an FTP Client, and a few browser windows open things are VERY cluttered and layered...

FCP is also a little cramped on the 12" screen.

You might want to wait for the Al15.... it is still very portable, but the extra screen space is VERY nice.

SPG
Jan 15, 2003, 01:05 PM
You can still plug another monitor in at home for screen spanning on the Ai wehre the ibook only supports screen mirroring if I'm not mistaken.

pgulliver
Jan 15, 2003, 01:08 PM
Hmmm.

What is the difference between screen spanning and mirroring?

robbieduncan
Jan 15, 2003, 01:15 PM
Spanning allows you to extend your desktop across the 2 displays (i.e. you can have different things on each display). Mirroring does exactly that - the external display show exactly what is on the internal display. Not that the current iBooks can have spanning enabled though an Open Firmware hack (which I have enabled on my iBook). If spanning is enabled you can CHOOSE to use mirroring, but if you are stuck on mirroring only (iBooks without the hack) you cannot choose to switch to spanning mode.

pgulliver
Jan 15, 2003, 01:18 PM
Wow. I didn't even know you could do that. So is there a separate desktop displayed on each monitor, is it one large desktop broken into two chunks? How do you control which display the mouse/pointer/cursor is currently on? How do you select which display different programs will open in?

Tommy!
Jan 15, 2003, 01:45 PM
Although screen real estate on the 12" powerbook is skimpy, it is a good trade off for the portability. It may only have video mirroring, but it can support an external monitor with resolutions up to 1600*1200, which is pretty nice... ;)

robbieduncan
Jan 15, 2003, 02:41 PM
Originally posted by pgulliver
Wow. I didn't even know you could do that. So is there a separate desktop displayed on each monitor, is it one large desktop broken into two chunks? How do you control which display the mouse/pointer/cursor is currently on? How do you select which display different programs will open in?

One display (defaults to the internal one) is set as the primary display. The Menu Bar, Dock and any newly opened apps appear on this screen. The other screen (or screen on PowerMac) are positioned (in the displays control panel) so as they are touching the primary display. You can simply drag windows off one screen onto the other (and obviously the pointer goes with it).

robbieduncan
Jan 15, 2003, 02:56 PM
Here is a picture of the arrangement controls (on my iBook) and the display menu. Sorry, but Grab.app mangled it slightly!

pgulliver
Jan 15, 2003, 02:58 PM
Robbie--thanks for the help. That's pretty cool how the spanning works. So if you attach a second monitor you actually double your space, amazing.

BTW-Was that screen capture from a 12" Screen?

robbieduncan
Jan 15, 2003, 03:02 PM
The screen capture is from the external monitor I connected (19" CTX CRT). Unfortunatly Grab.app only grabs the primary screen (which I switched to the CRT) and not any of the other screens. It is very easy to switch the primary screen - just drag the little menu bar on the arrangement contol to the monitor you want to be the primary. Note that doing this on an iBook requires a non-supported hack that can seriously mess up your iBook!

Edit: forgot to say, you do not have to run the external display at the same resolution as the internal. The screen capture above is running at higher resolution that the internal iBook screen can run at. So you can more than double your work space by connecting to an external display :D

Chimaera
Jan 16, 2003, 02:50 AM
which is basically what I'll be doin with the thing at home - my 19" monitor on my main system accepts dual inputs so can swap between them :)

My reason for buying this thing is simple - I want a laptop, and my work is almost exclusively mac-based, while I am at home exclusively PC-based, so would like to get a mac at home, and all the things I want to do with the thing are things Macs happen to be good at, so a small portable looks ideal - was originally going for the 12" iBook, but I can afford the bit extra the PB costs. Any idea what the screen is like on them? One thing its likely to get used a lot for is watching movies and stuff when I'm travelling.

Noone at all got a clue about the internal battery? shame :(

Chimaera
Jan 16, 2003, 02:57 AM
Incidentally for those of you thinking about spanning I have to warn you - once your used to using it you will HATE going back to a single display - I had that problem when my no.2 monitor died on my XP box - drove me *nuts* for weeks til I got used to running a single monitor again - dualhead is absolutely ace for all sorts of stuff, especially things like coding or webdesign and so on, or anything that has palettes for tat matter - for exampl in photoshop you could have the canvas on one screen and all the toolbars on the other.

robbieduncan
Jan 16, 2003, 04:40 AM
Originally posted by Chimaera
which is basically what I'll be doin with the thing at home - my 19" monitor on my main system accepts dual inputs so can swap between them :)

My reason for buying this thing is simple - I want a laptop, and my work is almost exclusively mac-based, while I am at home exclusively PC-based, so would like to get a mac at home, and all the things I want to do with the thing are things Macs happen to be good at, so a small portable looks ideal - was originally going for the 12" iBook, but I can afford the bit extra the PB costs. Any idea what the screen is like on them? One thing its likely to get used a lot for is watching movies and stuff when I'm travelling.

Noone at all got a clue about the internal battery? shame :(

I imagine the screen is the same one as in the recent 12" iBooks. Mine is fantastic. More than bright enough, crisp and beautiful. You won't be disappointed!

Chimaera
Jan 16, 2003, 04:47 AM
It certainly is very bright and crisp, however I found its reresh rate to be relatively slow even by LCD standards - mind you I've not tried watching a movie on one, so it might be OK :)

iJon
Jan 16, 2003, 07:55 AM
Originally posted by Chimaera
Hi there - I've pretty much decided on the 12" powerbook for myself (I was plannig on buying the 12"iBook before, but this is a far better option for me) and I have a single question, more from idle curiosity than anything else - the previous powerbooks all incorperated a smll internal battery, enough to enable the hot-swapping of a battery while the PB was in sleep mode - is this feature still on the 12"?

It doesn't especially matter, but it will come in handy if it does (the PB will be doing a lot of travelling with me)
yes you can do that. that has always been a feature even back in the black powerbook days, apple doesnt advertise it because its not that big of a feature. i use this feature a ton. i use it most when i am on a plane watching a movie and my battery goes dead and need to pop in a new one to finish my movie. you put the computer to sleep, and then pop out the battery. i wanna think you have 1-3 minutes to get a new battery in there. but this is a feature. now i havent tried it yet. i will have my powerbook 12 inch next week. ill bet anything that you can do this because it has been on all the previous powerbooks to my knowledge.

iJon

hs-l
Jan 16, 2003, 08:21 AM
Originally posted by iJon

yes you can do that. that has always been a feature even back in the black powerbook days, apple doesnt advertise it because its not that big of a feature. i use this feature a ton. i use it most when i am on a plane watching a movie and my battery goes dead and need to pop in a new one to finish my movie. you put the computer to sleep, and then pop out the battery. i wanna think you have 1-3 minutes to get a new battery in there. but this is a feature. now i havent tried it yet. i will have my powerbook 12 inch next week. ill bet anything that you can do this because it has been on all the previous powerbooks to my knowledge.

iJon

nope a guy at the apple store asid it can't do that, and that's why they made the battery the same as in the iBook (harder to get it out)!!

nicmac
Jan 16, 2003, 08:22 AM
It appears that the new 12" PB has a VGA port.
I do not understand why Apple would do this. You can't connect to Apples own LCD displays directly.
The only way i can see doing it would be with Griffen Techs $399 adapter. The Ti Book and the New 17" have DVI out which can be connected to Apples screens with a DVI to ADC adapter.
I would like to see the 12" with DVI out as well.

iJon
Jan 16, 2003, 08:31 AM
Originally posted by hs-l


nope a guy at the apple store asid it can't do that, and that's why they made the battery the same as in the iBook (harder to get it out)!!
interesting, like i said earlier, i was just asumming that they would. ill still try it out next week when i get mine, just to make sure. thanks for clearing that up for i know.

iJon

Chimaera
Jan 16, 2003, 08:32 AM
Not knowing where you are I can't say, but in the UK the employees of more or less any computer store - be it PC World, or Time or whatever are famously known for not having the slightest hint of a clue about their products - so I'll take the Apple Store's opinion with a pinch of salt :)

iJon: If you could post the info (and your thoughts in general on the 12") ASAP I would be very interested about your opinion of the Pbook in general and that feature in specific :)

iJon
Jan 16, 2003, 01:06 PM
Originally posted by Chimaera
Not knowing where you are I can't say, but in the UK the employees of more or less any computer store - be it PC World, or Time or whatever are famously known for not having the slightest hint of a clue about their products - so I'll take the Apple Store's opinion with a pinch of salt :)

iJon: If you could post the info (and your thoughts in general on the 12") ASAP I would be very interested about your opinion of the Pbook in general and that feature in specific :)
i sure will, we are getting our diplay model in next week. I am also getting a 12 inch powerbook for my own use as soon as i sell my firewire powerbook g3. if any of you are interested in my powerbook g3 with firewire let me know, i cant get a 12 inch until i get that sold. lots of stuff im giving away as well. please check it out.

iJon