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buffalo
Jan 29, 2006, 06:07 PM
Hello all,

Right now I have a Kodak EasyShare DX7630 (6.1MP). I'm thinking about upgrading to a SLR (looking at the Nikon D50 right now). I'm an amateur photo taker and really only use the Kodak for family events (sports (running), skiing (in the terrain park) and family photos with the occasional vacation). So,

What advantages would a SLR have over my current Kodak?

I could maybe see myself doing more photo projects with a nicer camera, but other than that the above uses would probably be about all I use it for.

Would there be any resale value with the Kodak, or is there not much market for used cameras?

If I upgraded, it would be nice to get something for the Kodak since I wouldn't need it anymore.

Are there any other SLR's you would recommend which are in the same price range as the D50?

I'm looking to spend ~$600.



Do you think it would be worth the investment to upgrade? My Kodak is only a little over a year old, so should I keep it a while longer before making a new purchase?

Your advice please.



homerjward
Jan 29, 2006, 06:17 PM
i have a d50 and i'm very happy with it, upgrading from a point-and-shoot hp with no controls or anything. i'd say if you find yourself unhappy with the image quality and performance of your kodak you should upgrade. however, if you're fine with your kodak right now and want to upgrade just because you think you should, i'd recommend waiting. obviously some of the advantages you'd see are more and easier manual controls (dials and buttons as opposed to menus), higher framerate, faster operation, a real optical viewfinder, better focusing, better low-light performance, better dynamic range, interchangeable lenses, etc.
i think you'd definitely see a lot of improvement with the d50 but whether that improvement is worth $650 (price of body and kit lens at buydig.com where i got mine) to you, i can't say.
if you get it, i'd advise you to get a large, fast sd card (corsair makes a nice 133x card, and i use sandisk's ultra II which is not quite as fast as the corsair but i'm very happy with it) and the 50mm f/1.8 lens for indoors, low-light, etc. i'm getting a telephoto zoom sometime soon and that's something you might consider if you're shooting sports.

JeffTL
Jan 29, 2006, 06:17 PM
The biggest advantage to an SLR is the absence of parallax due to the through-the-lens viewfinder; through a mirror and prism, your eye receives the same light the lens would were you to open the shutter. In addition, an SLR (as opposed to a fixed-lens camera such as a ZLR) has lens interchangeability, so you can (if you choose) invest in additional lenses, expanding your versatility.

I still use film when I want to shoot SLR; therefore, my Kodak DX3600 is often supplanted by an old Canon AE-1.

buffalo
Jan 29, 2006, 06:45 PM
It looks like I could get the D50 with a lens for $600 off of Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0009GZANC/ref=ord_cart_shr/002-8260150-2944832?%5Fencoding=UTF8&m=A17MC6HOH9AVE6&v=glance&n=502394). Is the included lens any good?

Would I be able to get anything if I sold my Kodak EasyShare? Is there a market for used digitals?

homerjward
Jan 29, 2006, 06:46 PM
It looks like I could get the D50 with a lens for $600 off of Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0009GZANC/ref=ord_cart_shr/002-8260150-2944832?%5Fencoding=UTF8&m=A17MC6HOH9AVE6&v=glance&n=502394). Is the included lens any good?

Would I be able to get anything if I sold my Kodak EasyShare? Is there a market for used digitals?
i have that lens. it's a bit slow to focus (but quiet while doing so) and i wish it had a little more on the long end, but it's great.
if you're getting a very good price on it, make sure it's from a reputable retailer with good feedback, etc.

sorry, can't help you with the bit about selling your old camera.

Chip NoVaMac
Jan 29, 2006, 07:15 PM
The biggest advantage to an SLR is the absence of parallax due to the through-the-lens viewfinder; through a mirror and prism, your eye receives the same light the lens would were you to open the shutter. In addition, an SLR (as opposed to a fixed-lens camera such as a ZLR) has lens interchangeability, so you can (if you choose) invest in additional lenses, expanding your versatility.

Not to forget that the DSLR will also have greater responsiveness over most P&S cameras.

Chip NoVaMac
Jan 29, 2006, 07:44 PM
It looks like I could get the D50 with a lens for $600 off of Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0009GZANC/ref=ord_cart_shr/002-8260150-2944832?%5Fencoding=UTF8&m=A17MC6HOH9AVE6&v=glance&n=502394). Is the included lens any good?

It is a good starter lens, don't worry.

The price I got was $615. While I can understand the desire to save money; but it may be more helpful to deal with a local dealer. Most are a great source to be able to get the most out of your new camera.

The going rate for this camera at most shops is $699.

buffalo
Jan 29, 2006, 08:55 PM
It is a good starter lens, don't worry.

The price I got was $615. While I can understand the desire to save money; but it may be more helpful to deal with a local dealer. Most are a great source to be able to get the most out of your new camera.

The going rate for this camera at most shops is $699.


Just looked at the feedback for the amazon seller and it's all good. I would need to call our local camera store but Best Buy has it for about $675. Would it really be worth it to spend the extra $75-100 + tax just to buy locally?


Also note that this is just the thought/research stage. I'd want to sell the old camera plus I'd have to have the support of my parents (maybe try to get them to chip some money in too) Being a teenager, $600 would blow most of the money I have saved up.

Abstract
Jan 30, 2006, 06:52 AM
I say don't get it unless you have $800 in the bank and feel comfortable blowing $650-700 of it on a camera. And even if you do end up buying it, get the twin lense kit that includes the 18-55 mm lense and the 55-200 mm telephoto lense. They're not great lenses, but for starters, they're not bad. This will cost you more than $650-700, but not by much. Maybe an extra $100 or something (not sure about American prices.....sorry).

Chip NoVaMac
Jan 30, 2006, 07:04 AM
Just looked at the feedback for the amazon seller and it's all good. I would need to call our local camera store but Best Buy has it for about $675. Would it really be worth it to spend the extra $75-100 + tax just to buy locally?

A specialty dealer is a better choice generally. A camera shop is there to support you AFTER the sale. Along with helping you get the most from your camera (look at it as mini lessons), they are generally most interested when there are (heaven forbid) problems.

Chip NoVaMac
Jan 30, 2006, 07:17 AM
I say don't get it unless you have $800 in the bank and feel comfortable blowing $650-700 of it on a camera. And even if you do end up buying it, get the twin lense kit that includes the 18-55 mm lense and the 55-200 mm telephoto lense. They're not great lenses, but for starters, they're not bad. This will cost you more than $650-700, but not by much. Maybe an extra $100 or something (not sure about American prices.....sorry).

The two lens kit sells for $899US.

Waiting a few weeks may pay off. With the Nikon price drop, there may be more lower cost offerings at the PMA show next month.

There have been some strong rumors of a Canon 3000D on some boards.

Clix Pix
Jan 30, 2006, 12:11 PM
A specialty dealer is a better choice generally. A camera shop is there to support you AFTER the sale. Along with helping you get the most from your camera (look at it as mini lessons), they are generally most interested when there are (heaven forbid) problems.


I agree with Chip -- these digital cameras are delicate electronic instruments and also are much more complex to use than the old SLRs of yore, and if you DO run into problems with your new camera you wouldn't get much help from Amazon or some other online dealer -- more than likely all they'd do is suggest a return (and some wouldn't even do that). Ditto for a local "big box" store like Best Buy. They aren't camera specialists, they just sell product. Taking the camera and the problem to the local camera shop from which you bought it can ensure that you'll get some hands-on help with it. Sometimes it's a simple situation that they can resolve right there for you, other times, if it seems to be necessary, they can arrange to send the camera in for repairs. Also, the local camera shop folks can instruct you in the fine art of cleaning the sensor when it comes time to do that.

Go to a local store in your area which specializes in photographic equipment. Even if it seems to cost a little more than ordering online or going to Best Buy, in the end it will pay off in many ways.

ChrisA
Jan 30, 2006, 12:12 PM
It looks like I could get the D50 with a lens for $600 off of Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0009GZANC/ref=ord_cart_shr/002-8260150-2944832?%5Fencoding=UTF8&m=A17MC6HOH9AVE6&v=glance&n=502394). Is the included lens any good?

Would I be able to get anything if I sold my Kodak EasyShare? Is there a market for used digitals?

The included lens with the D50 is the lowest priced lens Nikon makes. Just about every other lens they offer is is some way better. That said, the lens is MUCH beter then any lens on a little point and shoot camera and would be a huge upgrade. The next step up would be the kit lens that they include with the D70. This focuses faster, has the manual focus overide ring, faster f-stop and longer zoom range andm my favorite: A NON-rotating filter ring and much more robust construction.

There are three reasons why you might want to go with a DSRL

(1) improved image quality due to the larger CCD sensor (not more pixels but _bigger_ pixels.

(2) No shutter lag. The DSRL handles much faster

(3) The ability to add another lens or two to yourkit.. A lens like the f/2.8 80-200 is only availabler to SLR users. and then there are the great Nikon strobes -- remeber it's the light and the lens tha takes the shot. the camera body simply captures the image formed by the light and lens.

Chip NoVaMac
Jan 30, 2006, 07:45 PM
The included lens with the D50 is the lowest priced lens Nikon makes. Just about every other lens they offer is is some way better. That said, the lens is MUCH beter then any lens on a little point and shoot camera and would be a huge upgrade. The next step up would be the kit lens that they include with the D70. This focuses faster, has the manual focus overide ring, faster f-stop and longer zoom range andm my favorite: A NON-rotating filter ring and much more robust construction.

You are right that as you move up in the Nikkor range you gain capabilities, such as "focuses faster, has the manual focus overide ring, faster f-stop and longer zoom range". But don't sell short the 18-55 and 55-200 Nikkors.

I had the pleasure of seeing 24x36 inch prints taken with both of these lenses. They are part of the POP displays at many "camera" stores. One is of a "Chevey" from Cuba it appears, and the other is of a swimmer in the water.

At the store I work at Nikon sent us a 24x36 of the boy's face; taken with a Nikkor 85mm f/1.4. It is stunning, but so were the other two images.

There are three reasons why you might want to go with a DSRL

(1) improved image quality due to the larger CCD sensor (not more pixels but _bigger_ pixels.

Biggest reason to move to a DSLR or the Sony R1(?). Digital sensors are like film, the bigger the area, the more information that can be gotten from it.

(2) No shutter lag. The DSRL handles much faster

Think I mentioned it before, but bears repeating.

(3) The ability to add another lens or two to yourkit.. A lens like the f/2.8 80-200 is only availabler to SLR users. and then there are the great Nikon strobes -- remeber it's the light and the lens tha takes the shot. the camera body simply captures the image formed by the light and lens.

If your #1 is not a factor, there has been a few cameras that came close, maybe a half stop slower at the extreme telephoto end.

Until recently P&S's did not reach over ISO 400 or 800. While most DSLR's did 1600 or even 3200. A boon for low light photographers that demand "quality".

A DSLR user has available to them for under $1KUS, something like a 200-500mm zoom lens. That is about 300 to 750mm in 35mm speak. I have sold a number of these lenses for those going on an African Holiday, and so far - no complaints.

ChrisA
Jan 30, 2006, 09:14 PM
You are right that as you move up in the Nikkor range you gain capabilities, such as "focuses faster, has the manual focus overide ring, faster f-stop and longer zoom range". But don't sell short the 18-55 and 55-200 Nikkors.

I had the pleasure of seeing 24x36 inch prints taken with both of these lenses. They are part of the POP displays at many "camera" stores. One is of a "Chevey" from Cuba it appears, and the other is of a swimmer in the water.
.

I think "handeling" is as important as image quality. As you say, even the cheapest lens in the Nikon lineup can make very good 24x36 prints if the photographer uses care (and maybe a tripod) So things like the non-rotating filter ring and the speed of the internal focus motor matter a lot

I bring this up because I think people who buy on-line may get to caught up in specs and forget that how it feels in the hands matters perhaps more. For example, is the focus ring solid, wide and rubber coated or is it an un-usable 1/4 inch plastic ring on the end of the lens?

kwajo.com
Jan 30, 2006, 09:34 PM
Here is my usual plug to not limit yourself to considering Nikon or Canon models. Pentax & Olympus (and Konica-Minolta, though who knows what will happen to them) make excellent SLR camera bodies and lenses. I recommend you go to a photo shop and try handling and using a few before you are sold on one or another. Don't get too caught up by specs and see which one is right for you. For 90% of people any of these brands will do more than their experience in photography allows, so if you don't have a previous investment in lenses, why not get the camera system that is right for you. :)

buffalo
Jan 31, 2006, 03:37 PM
Thanks for all the replies. I'm going to continue with my research, but I don't think I'll be making any purchase anytime soon.


For 90% of people any of these brands will do more than their experience in photography allows, so if you don't have a previous investment in lenses, why not get the camera system that is right for you. :)

That's true! Any SLR will probably be more than I can handle. The only thing that would be holding me back from the camera system that is right for me is money. Money doesn't come quickly for me and I don't know if I'd get any financial support from my parents.

kwajo.com
Jan 31, 2006, 04:20 PM
I know what you mean, I'm still student and money is always at a premium, but I've been doing photography as a serious hobby since I was 5, and I've owned everything from 3 35mm SLRs to 2 digicams and everything in between. Last year I saved and saved to finally get a dSLR and though my photography skills probably demand a semi-pro camera body, I just can't afford that right now, so I went with the best Pentax I could afford (since I already had a number of lenses from my old film SLRs that are compatible). Sometimes people brag about their fancy equipment, but you really can do a lot with even the low end SLR cameras these days, even many point & shoots do a good job now. So I day do what I did, keep practicing with what you have, you can learn a lot about light and photograph with any camera, you don't need to spend thousands on a top-of-the-line camera system to be a good photographer. Really the whole thing just furthers the notion that it is the photographer, not the camera, because even with a $3000 Nikon, some photos just turn out badly lol

buffalo
Feb 1, 2006, 03:42 PM
New to the camera news world so is there anything comming up where new technology or price drops could be expected?


I'm 15 1/2, so I could get a job bussing tables or something, which I might do later in the future, but right now school's keeping me busy. If I did get a job though that would give me more room to buy a camera, but I also need to start saving for a car so I don't get stuck with our Toyota Echo.

Chip NoVaMac
Feb 1, 2006, 06:39 PM
New to the camera news world so is there anything comming up where new technology or price drops could be expected?


I'm 15 1/2, so I could get a job bussing tables or something, which I might do later in the future, but right now school's keeping me busy. If I did get a job though that would give me more room to buy a camera, but I also need to start saving for a car so I don't get stuck with our Toyota Echo.

New cameras and technology are always being announced. February is a month to wait, if you can. There is a big PMA show at the end of the month.

And case in point Nikon dropped the price on the D50 by $100 last week, and Pentax dropped the DL price $100 (to $599 for the kit) today.

buffalo
Feb 2, 2006, 02:32 PM
When is the show and what could be announced at this show? More lower cost SLR's or SLR's with more MP's (d50 with 7 or 8)?

If I were to get a D50, would you recommend that I get the body only (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0009GZAGO/sr=1-2/qid=1138911900/ref=pd_bbs_2/002-8260150-2944832?%5Fencoding=UTF8) for $550, or a D50 with a lense (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0009GZANC/sr=1-1/qid=1138911900/ref=pd_bbs_1/002-8260150-2944832?%5Fencoding=UTF8) for ~$650?


If I were to get the body only, what would you reccomend for me? Keeping price in mind, I think I would be using the camera most outside.

I'm thinking that I might go ahead and apply to buss tables a couple nights a week, so that might open some more $ to me, but I don't want to spend too much money since I'm new to digital photography.

Chip NoVaMac
Feb 2, 2006, 09:05 PM
When is the show and what could be announced at this show? More lower cost SLR's or SLR's with more MP's (d50 with 7 or 8)?

If I knew that, I might be earning a bit more than I am now! :D

The show is Feb 26 thru Mar 1 in Orlando. A quick Google of "PMA 2006" would give you the link to the PMA site - with news releases as they happen. Also other links to DPR and others that will address more directly the digital end.

If I were to get a D50, would you recommend that I get the body only (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0009GZAGO/sr=1-2/qid=1138911900/ref=pd_bbs_2/002-8260150-2944832?%5Fencoding=UTF8) for $550, or a D50 with a lense (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0009GZANC/sr=1-1/qid=1138911900/ref=pd_bbs_1/002-8260150-2944832?%5Fencoding=UTF8) for ~$650?

I work for a dealer, and the Amazon prices are nice, but may not be worth the savings of $29 on the body, or the $50 on the kit (based on our prices, which are about the same for most any other dealer or big box store).

On Amazon, what is their return privilege? For the shop I work at it is 14 days with no restocking fee if in "new" condition. What about any price protections? Again ours is 14 days. If the camera needs warranty repairs, who pays the shipping charges to Nikon? In our store we pick up that tab for our customers. If you need warranty repairs, and can not find your receipt (most if not all camera manufactures require the receipt -EVEN IF YOU SEND THE WARRANTY CARD!), will Amazon reseller be able to assist you? Heaven forbid should the camera need to go back in for lets say a third warranty repair (not likely but has happened)? Will Amazon work with you on getting a proper resolution? Same goes if there are rebates at the time you buy.

If I were to get the body only, what would you reccomend for me? Keeping price in mind, I think I would be using the camera most outside.

I'm thinking that I might go ahead and apply to buss tables a couple nights a week, so that might open some more $ to me, but I don't want to spend too much money since I'm new to digital photography.

Budgets are important. I have seen 24x36 inch prints from both the 18-55 and the 55-200 shot on the D50. Most anyone would be happy to have these on their walls.

If you want a good prime zoom lens, better than the 18-55, the 18-70 is a good choice. And with many D200 buyers wanting their bodies early, there are a number of "new" used 18-70's selling for $250-275 in camera shops.

For a student on a budget, I don't think that you will go wrong with the 18-55 to start. When you save up enough money you can buy a better lens. Whether that be the wonderful 18-200VR from Nikon, or the growing number of digital specific lenses from Tamron, Tokina, and Sigma.

buffalo
Feb 2, 2006, 09:51 PM
Thanks Chip NoVaMac,

I was just going with Amazon on the price, definatly wasn't sold on buying from them. I guess I'll just plan to save and wait for the time being. I'll see if the show brings anything new. I'm going to try to get a job, but I won't want to work much because of school (taking honors courses), and because track will be starting next month (5X a week untill 5ish). Right now I'll plan on getting the kit with the 18-55mm lens.