PDA

View Full Version : Bluetooth


FlamDrag
Jan 16, 2003, 09:15 AM
What in the world am I going to use Bluetooth to do? Someone please explain the benefits of this technology to me.

Do you already have it? What do YOU do with it?

If you don't have it, do you care if you get it?

I was hoping that bluetooth.com would have some bt enabled products for me to browse and learn about, but I didn't find any before I was annoyed by the web site.

robbieduncan
Jan 16, 2003, 09:23 AM
At the moment the best use (on a Mac) is to synchronise your contacts (from Address Book) and Calendars (from iCal) with your mobile devices. I use it to keep my Mac and my mobile phone (SE T68i) synchronised. You can also use the T68i as a modem through Bluetooth, send and receive SMS messages on your Mac through the phone (really cool). If you are on a call on your mobile whilst it is paired and someone else calls you a little window pops up on your Mac telling you this and offers you the choice of switching calls or rejecting their call (service provider dependant). You can also transfer pictures, ringtones and text notes to and from the phone using Bluetooth File Exchange.

Enough?

Einherjar
Jan 17, 2003, 12:35 AM
You forgot bluetooth mice and keyboards..I sure hope Apple is able to get MS's Wireless Bluetooth Explorer to work soon...I bought one, the Mac saw it, but MS had a hardware lock on it so that only those with Windows XP SP1 and MS's own adapter would work with it.

Like me, many people returned it because they wanted to use their internal bluetooth, but MS wouldn't let them. Others returned it because MS's adapter didn't support serial syncing, which is required for syncing with most Cell phones.

Was a damned fine mouse, though...had a nice weight and AWESOME grip...

MacBandit
Jan 17, 2003, 01:38 AM
Originally posted by Einherjar
You forgot bluetooth mice and keyboards..I sure hope Apple is able to get MS's Wireless Bluetooth Explorer to work soon...I bought one, the Mac saw it, but MS had a hardware lock on it so that only those with Windows XP SP1 and MS's own adapter would work with it.

Like me, many people returned it because they wanted to use their internal bluetooth, but MS wouldn't let them. Others returned it because MS's adapter didn't support serial syncing, which is required for syncing with most Cell phones.

Was a damned fine mouse, though...had a nice weight and AWESOME grip...

ACK!!!!! you have tarnished the thread with a product of the enemy. You must be punished.

ELYXR
Jan 17, 2003, 02:34 AM
Originally posted by Einherjar
You forgot bluetooth mice and keyboards..I sure hope Apple is able to get MS's Wireless Bluetooth Explorer to work soon...I bought one, the Mac saw it, but MS had a hardware lock on it so that only those with Windows XP SP1 and MS's own adapter would work with it.

Like me, many people returned it because they wanted to use their internal bluetooth, but MS wouldn't let them. Others returned it because MS's adapter didn't support serial syncing, which is required for syncing with most Cell phones.

Was a damned fine mouse, though...had a nice weight and AWESOME grip...

Others (like me) returned it because the mouse tracking was a joke... I payed almost $200 for the keyboard/Mouse/Bluetooth Adapter... installation was fine. But the mouse tracking sucked, BIG TIME! I even had my intellimouse optical plugged in and took turns A/Bing the mouse cursor... the intellimouse rocked.

Sorry M$. Another ******* product. :mad:

robbieduncan
Jan 17, 2003, 02:55 AM
Originally posted by Einherjar
You forgot bluetooth mice and keyboards..I sure hope Apple is able to get MS's Wireless Bluetooth Explorer to work soon...I bought one, the Mac saw it, but MS had a hardware lock on it so that only those with Windows XP SP1 and MS's own adapter would work with it.

Like me, many people returned it because they wanted to use their internal bluetooth, but MS wouldn't let them. Others returned it because MS's adapter didn't support serial syncing, which is required for syncing with most Cell phones.

Was a damned fine mouse, though...had a nice weight and AWESOME grip...

I didn't forget it - I just don't have one. I was looking for a BT mouse to use with my iBook, but could not find one :( Hopefully Apple will release a new mouse soon.

Mal
Jan 17, 2003, 06:57 AM
Nobody's mentioned the greatest thing about BlueTooth:

Truly wireless internet, anywhere, from your cell phone. That's right, if you have a Bluetooth cell phone, and it has a signal, you can dial up to the internet via your phone, without digging it out of your backpack or pocket. Check email, send faxes, browse the internet from anywhere!

(My Dad's getting that set up, and I'm really jealous, so that's why I'm even posting this.)

JW

robbieduncan
Jan 17, 2003, 07:34 AM
I though I said I could use it as a Modem? It is a really cool feature. Especially if you are somewhere that makes keeping IR contact a bit difficult (like on a BR train. Does Brittain have the bumpiest tracks in the world or what). Anyway Bluetooth is the best thing since sliced bread.

Over Achiever
Jan 17, 2003, 07:54 AM
Don't forget bluetooth speakers and headphones.

FlamDrag
Jan 17, 2003, 08:20 AM
Those are all nice features.

Let me ask this though. Imagine a lab setting where several macs have bluetooth.

I walk in with my bluetooth enabled cell phone. How many folks are going to be able to sync with it?

How many BT mice are going to controll the wrong computer?

Genuine, honest questions.

I saw a Sony Video Camera with bluetooth. How fast is digital video going to be sent to FCP or iMovie with it?

I'm disappointed with the lack of decent information available. You guys are helping.

robbieduncan
Jan 17, 2003, 08:42 AM
None. The first time you attempt to connect your mac to your cell phone a little message pops up on your cell phone asking you if you want to pair with the laptop. If you say yes you type a 4 digit code into the phone and the same 4 digit phone on the mac. Now until you tell either device otherwise they can pair without you needing to do anything. In addition you can always stop your phone from being discoverable. If you use a different mac each day you simply need to remove the cell phone from the list of paired devices when you are finished. Devices do not automatically attempt to pair. You need to tell them to look for devices to pair with.

In the case of mice each mouse will only allow intself to pair with one machine at a time (as each machine has a name), so there is no problem there either.

Chimaera
Jan 17, 2003, 08:46 AM
Personally I don't need it, as i currently own no other bluetooth kit, however I fully expect it to come in handy in the long run - in a number of ways its a lot like a wireless USB connection. I'm thinking about buying one of the new Palms, for example, and being able to sync over bluetooth is far better than by cable or IR :)

As for people connecting to your BT kit without your permission i believe you can set an access password to the kit and so on.

zarathustra
Jan 17, 2003, 08:56 AM
I also have a T68i with BT and it's awesome.

All in all, think USB sans wires. I think it will catch on once all Apple products use it, and more peripherals come with it (I hear smarteleks saying "no *****, Sherlock"). but it's the simple truth.

When the USB only iMac came out, people screamed bloody murder. "But I have an ADB mouse and a serial tablet. This USB will not catch on!" Once you upgrade your machine and it has BT, you will buy BT, and it will become useful.

Jaykay
Jan 17, 2003, 10:25 AM
I saw a Sony Video Camera with bluetooth. How fast is digital video going to be sent to FCP or iMovie with it?


yeah, bluetooth sucks for transferring large amounts of data its speed is somewhere around 700 - 800 KBps so compared to firewire its no good for transferring video. Maybe it could be pretty good for transferring still images from the camera.

MacBandit
Jan 17, 2003, 10:42 AM
Originally posted by robbieduncan
Especially if you are somewhere that makes keeping IR contact a bit difficult (like on a BR train. Does Brittain have the bumpiest tracks in the world or what).

I highly doubt that. The tracks here in the NW are so bad that they can not exceed 65MPH and in vast section can't exceed 55MPH for feer the tracks will break up.

FlamDrag
Jan 17, 2003, 10:43 AM
"Wireless USB" - that sounds pretty good. I didn't realize that it was even that fast of a connection.

Thanks for all of the info.

strider42
Jan 17, 2003, 11:14 AM
Originally posted by FlamDrag
"Wireless USB" - that sounds pretty good. I didn't realize that it was even that fast of a connection.

Thanks for all of the info.

its no where near as fast as USB. USb maxes out at 11 mbps. bluetooth is less than 1 mbps. its 11 times slower.

the closest to wireless USB would be 802.11b (original airport), whcih also has a 11 mbps throughput. bluetooth is utterly useless for file transfer or anything like that. Its only real use will be with peripheral connections that use very slow speed (USb peripherals use 1.5 mbps throughput max usually, so thats feasible) and synching with mobile devices since that data is not very large. bluetooth just isn't really that cool in my opinion people make up uses for it, but I don't see how its better than what is already there in many cases.

Maclicious
Jan 17, 2003, 11:32 AM
Originally posted by Einherjar
... many people returned MS's Wireless Bluetooth Explorer because they wanted to use their internal bluetooth, but MS wouldn't let them. Others returned it because MS's adapter didn't support serial syncing, which is required for syncing with most Cell phones.

But isn't bluetooth's great appeal that it is a cross-platform open standard? How can MS make a bluetooth device with a propriatary hardware lock (other than illegally?). I smell shades of MS's tinkering with Java... and look where that got them. Arg!

will
Jan 17, 2003, 12:30 PM
Originally posted by Maclicious

But isn't bluetooth's great appeal that it is a cross-platform open standard? How can MS make a bluetooth device with a propriatary hardware lock (other than illegally?). I smell shades of MS's tinkering with Java... and look where that got them. Arg!

Hmmmm, while Bluetooth is an open standard it says nothing about what's being sent over it.

Just because I can use a phone and a Japanese speaker can use the phone it doesn't mean I will be able to understand Japanese or he will be able to understand English.

I don't know the details of the MS mouse but I'd guess it uses BT properly but what it sends needs to be interpreted/decoded by a driver which isn't available for the Mac. If someone else knows better I'd be interested to know.

I'm the last person to say good things about MS, but I don't think everything they do is an evil plot to sabatage Apple, and they do make nice mice!

oscarp
Jan 17, 2003, 01:19 PM
Hi robbieduncan

What type of speeds are you getting using mobile as modem?


:)

Einherjar
Jan 17, 2003, 01:45 PM
Originally posted by ELYXR


Others (like me) returned it because the mouse tracking was a joke... I payed almost $200 for the keyboard/Mouse/Bluetooth Adapter... installation was fine. But the mouse tracking sucked, BIG TIME! I even had my intellimouse optical plugged in and took turns A/Bing the mouse cursor... the intellimouse rocked.

Sorry M$. Another ******* product. :mad:

I tried it on my sister's Vaio--tracking was perfect in Q3. The thing has an improved tracking system, however, there have been mixed reviews on the tracking, but honestly I don't see it any worse than an Intellimouse 3.0...

Einherjar
Jan 17, 2003, 01:51 PM
Originally posted by will


Hmmmm, while Bluetooth is an open standard it says nothing about what's being sent over it.

I don't know the details of the MS mouse but I'd guess it uses BT properly but what it sends needs to be interpreted/decoded by a driver which isn't available for the Mac. If someone else knows better I'd be interested to know.



No, from what I know, the Mac is capable of using Bluetooth HIDs. MS stuck a bluetooth security password on it, instead of letting you set it yourself, as in other bluetooth devices. Configuration is done via the included adapter and the software provided with Windows XP SP1--but all of that is transparent to the user. It's not just a Mac problem, people on Win2k and 98SE with Built-In adapters on machines such as the IBM Thinkpad SHOULD be capable of using the mouse, but such recent moves in hardware requirements by MS are attempting to force people to move to XP--which makes no sense because if I were happy with 2k, there'd be no way I'd update to XP just to use a mouse..

bertagert
Jan 17, 2003, 03:59 PM
FlamDrag,

I don't know if you use a laptop or not, but think about this:

You bring your laptop home or to work. Currently you need to dock your system or at least hook up your printer/scanner/speakers/mouse.

Bluetooth eliminates all those wires and connections. Come home, sit on the couch, hit print and your paper is over in the other room in the printer. Sweet huh!

Maybe you have a desktoop. Imagine not having all those cables behind your desk. Maybe you want your scanner or printer on the other side of the room. Bluetooth fixes these problems.

In the near future you will see other devices (maybe even a refrig) that you will control from one place in the home. Same goes for business. Probably something in your car. Bluetooth is a very awesome technology that has great potential.

The ideas above can be compared to dial-up verses broadband. Once you've got it you'll never go back to the old ways. :D

FlamDrag
Jan 17, 2003, 04:57 PM
I'm not protesting adapting a new technology, but if it's not good for transferring large amounts of data (due to slow transfer rates) then I'd rather send my prints and scans via USB if it's 11x faster. Those files can be quite large ya know?

I'd LOVE to have the option of an all wireless system, but it doesn't really sound like bluetooth is going to cut the mustard for anything more than just light-duty use.

Mouse / Keyboard sure.

Photo Printer / Scanner / Video - doesn't sound like it.

Speakers / Headphones? Good question. Is it going to be a radio quality broadcast? If so, then why in the world would I do that? I want my listening experience to be nice and clean.

It's all very attractive sounding, but speed seems to be the limitation.

medea
Jan 17, 2003, 05:39 PM
I think what is great about Bluetooth is the future possibilites, right now it is pretty slow but like anything else (wi-fi,usb,firewire) it will evolve and get faster and that is when it will become really important, there will be no need for wires then.

frozenstar
Jan 17, 2003, 06:24 PM
Everyone seems to be missing the point. Bluetooth wasn't designed for high data rates and long distances. There is no need for it to evolve to support services like real-time video and such. 802.11g already does that much better than Bluetooth ever will. But 802.11g consumes a lot of power, generates a lot of heat, and requires more physical space. Can you imagine building that into a mouse or a headset? Obviously not. THAT is where Bluetooth comes in.

yosoyjay
Jan 17, 2003, 08:41 PM
Originally posted by Jaykay



yeah, bluetooth sucks for transferring large amounts of data its speed is somewhere around 700 - 800 KBps so compared to firewire its no good for transferring video. Maybe it could be pretty good for transferring still images from the camera.

If it was 700-800 KBps it would be faster than Firewire2. The spec for Bluetooth indicates it tops off at 1.0 Mbps hence the name 802.15.1. Much slower than even USB but it is wireless which makes an order of magnitude cooler.

edit: Sorry for being redundant. I didn't read all the other posts before I opened my fat mouth.'

alset
Jan 17, 2003, 08:52 PM
Originally posted by oscarp
Hi robbieduncan

What type of speeds are you getting using mobile as modem?


I was told that in Japan they have wireless speeds up to 700kbps over cell connections. Not that we'll see anything like that in the US for a long time.

Dan

frozenstar
Jan 17, 2003, 08:54 PM
Originally posted by yosoyjay


If it was 700-800 KBps it would be faster than Firewire2.

Actually, 700-800 Kbps is 1000 times slower than Firewire 800, but nice try.

Sorry for the sarcasm, couldn't help it.

frozenstar
Jan 17, 2003, 09:03 PM
Originally posted by alset

I was told that in Japan they have wireless speeds up to 700kbps over cell connections. Not that we'll see anything like that in the US for a long time.

Not true. The current implementation of W-CDMA in Japan tops out at 384kbps. There is nothing faster. However, KDDI should be deploying CDMA2000 1xEV-DO soon which will allow for data rates as high as 2.4mbps.

In North America, we can expect to see speeds that high by the end of 2004.

pmh
Jan 19, 2003, 07:11 AM
I know BT is not terribly fast yet, but wouldn't it be cool to auto-discover other BT devices that are rendezvous smart?

You could probably meet people and chat with them without any wires - or share music with someone with a BT enabled iPOD

You could connect to a fax or printer, you could connect to an smtp server to get your mail in/out.

When ithe BT bandwidth improves, then video
goes too...

Just the whole combo of BT + RV enables this realtime discovery and conspiry with people, devices and services. I'm up for that!!

law guy
Jan 19, 2003, 09:11 AM
There are some non-desktop/notebook computer items also taking advantage of bluetooth. Saab had a product video on their web site not too long ago for either the 9-3 or 9-5 demonstrating how it had integrated voice recognition (for the climate control, stereo, navigation system, etc.) with mobile communications - including bluetooth. The implications for this sort of car with a notebook may just be to use it as a large cell-phone, but there may be some nifty possibilities that don't spring to mind...

While I can no longer find the product film - here is a link to a story on the car:

http://www.itsa.org/ITSNEWS.NSF/4e0650bef6193b3e852562350056a3a7/c22539d01157b2ba85256c4000437e67?OpenDocument

Then again, maybe its just another device giving off a signal that can be used to track you as you pass by checkpoints - making your car into one big cookie, like a smart tag or EZ Pass. I mention this latter point as I was thinking that while the Wi-Fi 802 wireless networking standard is convenient - I'm sure Starbucks, and every marketing research firm out there, are excited to have an avenue to acquire more information on who uses their stores, when and for how long. Well - if it wasn't one of the wireless standards, I'm sure it would only have been a matter of time before Starbucks created scannable "bonus cards" like the supermarkets and bookstores to induce folks to let them record who bought how much and when by offering a small discount (although a discount is better than having to pay T-Mobile the fee to use the hot spot). I digress.

FlamDrag
Jan 19, 2003, 11:10 AM
I guess the point that I was missing is that my Mac really isn't a huge component of Bluetooth. It's a convienence issue. It sounds like it's more of a AirPort-ish solution for everything that doesn't have major processing power (cell phones, etc). So in that respect it makes a little more sense to me to have it on a computer.

Regarding "high=speed bluetooth" it seems like a much more worthwhile endeavor to adapt AirPort Extreme into smaller packages / componenets for use to transmit lots of data rather than sit around and wait for BT to get faster.

redAPPLE
May 23, 2003, 01:50 PM
Originally posted by robbieduncan
At the moment the best use (on a Mac) is to synchronise your contacts (from Address Book) and Calendars (from iCal) with your mobile devices. I use it to keep my Mac and my mobile phone (SE T68i) synchronised. You can also use the T68i as a modem through Bluetooth, send and receive SMS messages on your Mac through the phone (really cool). If you are on a call on your mobile whilst it is paired and someone else calls you a little window pops up on your Mac telling you this and offers you the choice of switching calls or rejecting their call (service provider dependant). You can also transfer pictures, ringtones and text notes to and from the phone using Bluetooth File Exchange.

Enough?

hi. can u pls. tell me how to transfer pictures?

bellis1
May 23, 2003, 03:31 PM
I use a t68i and my laptop. It is great to use the phone for presentations or a remote for iTunes. But it sucks as a modem. 9600 is just too slow even for email when I get a ton of SPAM. You can get it higher if you use a GPRS connection but then the mobile company charges you per mb tranfered. Does anyone make a phone with a faster modem than 9600?

Freg3000
May 23, 2003, 04:09 PM
I love BlueTooth. I use it with my t68i to sync contacts, and use it between Macs for small files. I am really excited about the future of BT though, as I am aure that there are a lot of possibilities that have yet to be unlocked.