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Glenn Wolsey
Feb 3, 2006, 10:58 PM
I really want too get into the photography business anyway I can, and I also want too collect some money towards a Nikon D70 and my photography Mac setup.

Photography is a huge hobby of mine and in later life I hope too turn it into something more, possible a career. You have too start somewhere, right?

I am wanting to start selling my photographs and making some money from them. But I have no idea where, or how to do it, and what the rights are that you send with the image. (reproducing, re-sale, etc.

Can anyone help me?



Abstract
Feb 4, 2006, 01:16 AM
So you went from having a small budget of several hundred dollars towards a camera only a month ago, to wanting a Nikon D200 and spending close to $2000 USD last week, and now you're looking into selling photos because your isht is that good? :confused: That's a quick swing, no?

I'm reading and listening to more knowledgeable photographers, but am I not "spongy" enough?

Glenn Wolsey
Feb 4, 2006, 01:26 AM
So you went from having a small budget of several hundred dollars towards a camera only a month ago, to wanting a Nikon D200 and spending close to $2000 USD last week, and now you're looking into selling photos because your isht is that good? :confused: That's a quick swing, no?

I'm reading and listening to more knowledgeable photographers, but am I not "spongy" enough?

I wanted something cheap early on as I didn't want to do sports photography, now i do. So I thought too myself, why buy a camera that won't last too long and won't do everything i want too in the next year or two, I will get something good that will last.

I dont have the cash for it at the moment, so I want to sell some current images to afford a better camera, hence allowing me too take better shots of a wider variety of genres, earning more money and enjoying photography in itself.

I currently have a point and shoot Canon PowerShot, so I need something better down the road before I can even look into sports. I also didn't know the camera market very well when I wanted something under $500, now I am much more aware of specs and pricing.

Did that answer your question? :)

ChrisA
Feb 4, 2006, 11:36 AM
I really want too get into the photography business anyway I can, and I also want too collect some money towards a Nikon D70 and my photography Mac setup.

This is a bussiens question is much as a fotography question. What you need to do is make a "bussines plan". That's a one to three year time line that shows expenses and costs and cash on hand shows what you will do each month. Hopfuly the plan will show a profet at some point. Don't forget the cost of marketing your work, taxes, bussesnes licenses, insurace and the like.

Then you review the plan for any parts where it says "magic happens here" like for example if it syas that "tenr potential customers will call you per month and you expect to get bussines from half of them" That's "magic" unless you can explain how those ten peole got your phone number and how you got the 50% conversion ratio.

To make the plan you'll need to know the market, who buys images and what they pay and about the competition and how you can be better than them in a competitive market. So far this applies if you want to sell photos or sell shoes. It is absolutly certain that without a plan the bussies will fail

The best ways to learn is to work for someoe else or go to school

Of course you could simply put screen resolutions of you best work on the web and offer to except paypal payments for quality prints and hope to make money. Actually a web galery of your best work is kind of a requirememnt. Do you have oone?

Applespider
Feb 4, 2006, 11:45 AM
I dont have the cash for it at the moment, so I want to sell some current images to afford a better camera

Perhaps buying the photographic gear before Aperture next time would have resulted in higher quality pictures which you'll need if you're going to sell them. That would have been a big chunk towards that D70 :rolleyes:

Seriously, if you live in a scenic/tourist area, try taking interesting shots of things in the area, invest in getting some printed and framed and see if any local cafe/bistro owners will let you sell them in their premises for a percentage.

icloud
Feb 4, 2006, 11:53 AM
I personally wouldnt say that photography is something that one should "look to make a career out of" i mean sure i wouldnt mind getting 150k from national geographic and a ****load of equipment, but ill say this from the get go...if you want a career first youll be dissapointed.

You will lose the passion for it simply as having it as a "career" in mind

Thomas S
Feb 4, 2006, 01:16 PM
I personally wouldnt say that photography is something that one should "look to make a career out of" i mean sure i wouldnt mind getting 150k from national geographic and a ****load of equipment, but ill say this from the get go...if you want a career first youll be dissapointed.

You will lose the passion for it simply as having it as a "career" in mind

Agreed. I'm 16, and while I certainly make a decent amount of money off of my photography, it is fun first, a job last.

A photographer never has world-class images if he loses the passion for photogrpahy, which almost all do when they jump into it for the money, and not the passion they have.

Shots like these showcase the atmosphere of the place. This was taken at Cedar Point during the next to the last weekend of HalloWeekends in 2005. It showcases the "impending doom" feeling they try to get you, to scare you. All too often people become corrupted by the almighty dollar :(.

http://img366.imageshack.us/img366/5381/dscf19962005edit8iy.jpg

I know that my commercial images, while also excellent, pale in comparison to many of my landscape and wildlife images. While still technically excellent, they lack the flair.

PS - You use Aperture, a pro application, with a Canon P&S? :confused: Why - talk about mixed up priorities!

Glenn Wolsey
Feb 4, 2006, 01:21 PM
I am a Macintosh writer, and work for some large publications so I got a nice deal on Aperture. A very good deal.

Glenn Wolsey
Feb 4, 2006, 01:23 PM
Agreed. I'm 16, and while I certainly make a decent amount of money off of my photography, it is fun first, a job last.

A photographer never has world-class images if he loses the passion for photogrpahy, which almost all do when they jump into it for the money, and not the passion they have.

I haven't and don't plan too lose my passion in the hobby, its for fun, thats why I do it, because I enjoy it.

I just thought if I could sell a few images it would help me pursue the hobby further with better gear.

XIII
Feb 4, 2006, 01:25 PM
I am a Macintosh writer, and work for some large publications so I got a nice deal on Aperture. A very good deal.

Why was it necessary at all? Unless they were giving it to me for free, I wouldn't bother.. no point unless you will use it for what it was designed for.

Glenn Wolsey
Feb 4, 2006, 01:36 PM
Why was it necessary at all? Unless they were giving it to me for free, I wouldn't bother.. no point unless you will use it for what it was designed for.

What is was designed for? Its designed to store, edit, and catalog your images, cutting down time in post production. No matter what kind of camera you have Aperture will help with that.

Mechcozmo
Feb 4, 2006, 02:52 PM
1. Talk to a lawyer. MacRumors is in no way a legal-advice dispenser. We can't tell you about selling your pictures, etc. mostly because we are just random people on the internet. Whatever you hear from us may be wrong. So talk to a lawyer and get cold facts.

2. If you are going to be doing this professionally, start learning the rules of spelling and grammar. (to, too, two). Nothing is worse than a 'pro' talkln like day now everry thaing. ;)

3. Are you actually good at taking pictures? When people look at your pictures do they say, "Wow." or "That's neat." or "Nice picture!" or "<insert positive remark here>" Frankly, there are a lot of people I know who are 'decent' photographers for their home albums but wouldn't make it up the next few levels to 'pro'-- but they don't take bad pictures.

Glenn Wolsey
Feb 4, 2006, 03:13 PM
1. Talk to a lawyer. MacRumors is in no way a legal-advice dispenser. We can't tell you about selling your pictures, etc. mostly because we are just random people on the internet. Whatever you hear from us may be wrong. So talk to a lawyer and get cold facts.

2. If you are going to be doing this professionally, start learning the rules of spelling and grammar. (to, too, two). Nothing is worse than a 'pro' talkln like day now everry thaing. ;)

3. Are you actually good at taking pictures? When people look at your pictures do they say, "Wow." or "That's neat." or "Nice picture!" or "<insert positive remark here>" Frankly, there are a lot of people I know who are 'decent' photographers for their home albums but wouldn't make it up the next few levels to 'pro'-- but they don't take bad pictures.

1. I wanted tips on where to sell my photos, no Lawyer needed.

2. I think my spelling and grammar is fine, as would many others. Want to link me to one of my posts where I use "MSN" talk?

3. I understand.

Thomas S
Feb 4, 2006, 03:23 PM
I haven't and don't plan too lose my passion in the hobby, its for fun, thats why I do it, because I enjoy it.

I just thought if I could sell a few images it would help me pursue the hobby further with better gear.

That is very, very good. All too often people lose sight of what got them into photography in the first place :(.

Mechcozmo
Feb 4, 2006, 03:24 PM
1. I wanted tips on where to sell my photos, no Lawyer needed.

2. I think my spelling and grammar is fine, as would many others. Want to link me to one of my posts where I use "MSN" talk?

3. I understand.


I really want too get into the photography business anyway I can, and I also want too collect some money towards a Nikon D70 and my photography Mac setup.

Photography is a huge hobby of mine and in later life I hope too turn it into something more, possible a career. You have too start somewhere, right?

I am wanting to start selling my photographs and making some money from them. But I have no idea where, or how to do it, and what the rights are that you send with the image. (reproducing, re-sale, etc.

Can anyone help me?

You asked for help on what the rights were that you 'send with the image'. You did not just ask for 'where' you could sell the pictures.

Your grammar was worse than your spelling, true. I was just telling you that if you did this in the future, more professionally, as you want to do, that you can't mix up to/too along with the other bolded mistakes above. (I just did a fast edit; I've been doing proofs a lot recently)

What is your skill level in photography?

Applespider
Feb 4, 2006, 03:24 PM
2. I think my spelling and grammar is fine, as would many others. Want to link me to one of my posts where I use "MSN" talk?


I don't think anyone was accusing you of MSN talk; more of an informality which, although appropriate on these forums, won't be in the real world.

Just looking at your post immediately above that of Mechozmo, there's a lack of apostrophes and bizarre usage of commas. Nothing so dreadful as txtspk but not perfect either. I wouldn't usually point it out since I'm not a big fan of grammar Nazis but you asked. ;)

Clix Pix
Feb 4, 2006, 06:00 PM
First of all, do you understand exactly what "stock photography" is all about? Not to burst your bubble, but most stock photography agencies have specific requirements, including the equipment used. Let's just say that you're not going to be selling anything to stock agencies when you're using a P&S camera.

Are the images you are currently getting out of your present camera of sufficiently good resolution that they'd look fine when blown up to sizes beyond 8 x 10? Someone making a purchase to put on his or her wall expects a high-quality image with high resolution and usually decent presentation (ie, matting/framing). Are you familiar with the printing process and matting/framing processes required to sell prints? Most photographers who sell prints of their work do NOT print them out on their own printer at home.

Are the images you are currently getting out of your present camera well composed, intriguing, with a certain "something" that catches the viewer's attention and definitely has a "wow!" factor?

The photography business is a highly competitive one and very difficult in which to get a foothold. Starting out by taking courses and by assisting a professional photographer out in the field or in the studio can be one way to learn more about the art and the business of photography. Many photographers start out as apprentices to others long before they finally are ready to take the plunge and establish their own business.

Go to the library and/or bookstore and grab some books on photography -- not just the "how-to" techniques books, but those which include many photos by famous photographers. Look at those photos, study those photos...appreciate them for the art that they demonstrate. For example, right now I've just brought home a new book from the library, HARRY BENSON'S AMERICA. When I look through the images there, I won't just be looking at the famous people present in many of his photos, but will be studying the lighting, the angles of the lighting, the way in which he composed the picture....and I'll try to guess at how he interacted with his subjects during those portrait sessions in order to get the results displayed on the pages in front of me. You can learn a lot from studying the work of others before you ever pick up a camera.

After spending some time in really looking at photographs, THEN go out with your own camera and play around with some of the concepts and ideas you've just seen, work with your camera to see what kinds of images you can produce. Shoot in black-and-white, see how there is a different thinking process there than when shooting in color. Try and figure out why one photo excites you while another leaves you thinking, "ahhhh...."

Again, while at the bookstore or library, be sure to pick up some books which give clear descriptions of the business of photography. As has already been mentioned, it IS a business, and like any other, requires legal advice and support (tax laws, y'know), a good business plan, and an investment of money. For most people, yes, the investment is going to be in the equipment, but also in the time one puts into this. Many photographers continue to hold a day job while doing their photography "on the side" at weekends and such until they reach the point where they can afford to be a professional photographer full-time. And by the way, the definition of "professional" photographer is that one earns income from his or her work. It has nothing to do with the quality of said work. I've seen work from professionals and from so-called amateurs which is equally outstanding.

Since you're still in school, if there's a photography club, you'd probably get a lot out of joining that, or if there is a local community photography club, go to some of their meetings and chat with people who are approaching photography from various levels of expertise.

Most importantly: get out there with the camera you have and use it. Learn from it....

Mechcozmo
Feb 4, 2006, 07:40 PM
http://img366.imageshack.us/img366/5381/dscf19962005edit8iy.jpg

I know that my commercial images, while also excellent, pale in comparison to many of my landscape and wildlife images. While still technically excellent, they lack the flair.

I like it quite a bit. I've played with long-exposure work (Canon PowerShot S2 IS) and I like the neat effects but it doesn't always work as well as I want it to... I just need to play with it more, I think.

Coolnat2004
Feb 4, 2006, 08:39 PM
Glenn, you're 13. I don't think you should be worrying about getting into ..much of anything at this point. If I were you, I would use the equipment I have (Powershot) and try to learn all about photography with that. True, you won't get pro-looking photographs, but you won't go broke either (You're a millionaire though, aren't you?). Learn about exposure, lighting, positioning, etc. If you find that you really enjoy photography and you want to be more professional at it, then go from there.

Just my two cents..

G4scott
Feb 5, 2006, 01:46 AM
I was gonna say, you don't need an expensive setup to start getting good pictures. I have a Canon PowerShot S50, with a dent on the back, and a battery door that's kinda awkward after being dropped. I use a tripod that's probably older than I am. I am a student first, and I have another job that requires my time, but when I can, I like to go and be creative with my camera. I've taken quite a few nice photos here and there, but most importantly, I'm "practicing".

I'd love to have a Canon EOS-1Ds Mark II and all the lenses in the world to go with it, but I don't have the means, and I know that better equipment won't necessarily make me a better photographer.

Start out with the camera you already have, or upgrade to something better with good photographic controls (Canon PowerShot S70 comes to mind for a small, somewhat decently priced camera with aperture and shutter priority modes that shoots RAW) and get out more with it, and take all the pictures you can. You want to make sure it's something you really want to do before putting lots of money into it. I don't want to sound harsh, but you also want to make sure that your photography is something people would want to buy. I hate to see people spend tons of money, only to find their photos are still what they'd get with their point and shoot, just with 3 times as many pixels.

Hopefully the advice on these boards can help you make a sound decision.

Mechcozmo
Feb 5, 2006, 02:07 AM
I am a Macintosh writer, and work for some large publications so I got a nice deal on Aperture. A very good deal.

Glenn, you're 13.

Glenn, some nice credentials you've got yourself there. Linkety (http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=Glenn+Wolsey&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8) Although your "About" page needs another run-through (just an FYI). Impressive, nonetheless.

I'd like to point out a few things though: G4Scott is right, you should play with your camera more and think less about what equipment you have. Aperture is nice software but you don't NEED it. You don't NEED an SLR to take amazing pictures. You DO need a good eye and a fast finger.

You've gotten some good advice here. Personally, if you are just starting (as it sounds) with photography, an SLR would make your pictures worse with all the confusing settings. Take classes, join clubs, read books. Get good at it before you take the jump.

Glenn Wolsey
Feb 5, 2006, 02:19 AM
Okay guys, here is my plan:

- Learn how to use all the features on my current point and shoot, and learn what kind of settings I need for different image types and shots.

- Practice, Practice, Practice

- Learn all the photography terminology.

- Research SLR cameras and make the best choice for ME, not based on features, but based on what camera suits me best.

- Purchase new camera

- Shoot, Shoot, Shoot

Mechcozmo
Feb 5, 2006, 02:31 AM
Okay guys, here is my plan:

- Learn how to use all the features on my current point and shoot, and learn what kind of settings I need for different image types and shots.

- Practice, Practice, Practice

- Learn all the photography terminology.

- Research SLR cameras and make the best choice for ME, not based on features, but based on what camera suits me best.

- Purchase new camera

- Shoot, Shoot, Shoot

Let's re-arrange this list a tad...

- Practice, Practice, Practice

- Learn all the photography terminology.

- Learn how to use all the features on my current point and shoot, and learn what kind of settings I need for different image types and shots.

- Learn how to use all the features well.

- Practice, Practice, Practice

(In a few months... maybe even a few years)

- Research SLR cameras and make the best choice for ME, not based on features, but based on what camera suits me best.

- Purchase new camera

- Learn how to use all the features well.

- Practice, Practice, Practice

- Shoot, Shoot, Shoot

There's my suggestion, with just a hint of sarcasm and 31 minutes past midnight wackiness. But I'm feeling pretty sane so that should be a nice timeline.

Abstract
Feb 5, 2006, 07:40 AM
I highly highly suggest that you learn about photography first before pursuing a career in it. I mean, I like a lot of things, photography included, but I know where I stand, and I'm not a professional photographer. Far from it. :p

I actually think you should get an SLR. The faster you get it, the earlier you can start practicing with it. I just got a D50 3 weeks ago and after shooting what I think are some nice shots, even I can now point out some major flaws, an out-of-focus subject being one of them. ****, that always happens (see EXAMPLE 1 (http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/6707/example19aq.jpg)). :( I'm probably around the same level as you, but you know what? I'll probably progress faster because I have something to play with that is CAPABLE of taking the photographs that I want. Now, even when I have complete control over the camera, I still don't always take the photo that I want, and I can work on "Why not?"

Some photos I'm happy with right now, but i still want to find a flaw anyway, because I'm sure I made one somewhere, even if I don't know what it is yet (see EXAMPLE 2 (http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/7792/example28lk.jpg)). :rolleyes: A DSLR allows me to make minor adjustments that I can't make otherwise.

However, selling your photos? Nobody is going to buy the photos you're taking right now. You just need to work on it, THEN re-examine your skills and make a decision regarding a possible "career" in photography. Or just be a hobbiest. Just know your current limitations, that's all. ;) Re-examine later, but for now, just take some photos, save some cash for a DSLR, and then go from there. You still have lots of time.

revfife
Feb 5, 2006, 04:01 PM
I would also recommend attending all the seminars/school/classes you can. Check into Nikon School for one (an excellent place to learn basics and more). You can never learn too much. I would say even pro level photogs still are learning new angles/techniques.

Also knowing your strengths and weaknesses helps a lot. Know where you are good and play to your strengths. Not all people are cut out for wedding photography yet they might be great at still life. Find your niche!

Finally know your market. Photos are a dime a dozen. I see average/subpar photos at every arts&crafts show, flea market, expo, etc... Chances are if you see a photo and think you could do that you and 500 other people probably could. This leads me into the most important quality...EYES!
Imagination and sight make up 110% of photos that I like.

Hope some of this helps

ejb190
Feb 6, 2006, 01:01 PM
I started doing newspaper photography with a little weekly, small town paper at the age of 14 with a Kodak VR35 K10 and a few rolls of B&W film. Got some of my work published and got an offer to apprentice with a photographer from a larger, daily paper (and a renowned photographer in his own right). I had to turn him down at that time and he died a couple of years later. Would have been an awesome "in" into the newspaper photography business.

Mechcozmo
Feb 6, 2006, 10:43 PM
I actually think you should get an SLR. The faster you get it, the earlier you can start practicing with it. I just got a D50 3 weeks ago and after shooting what I think are some nice shots, even I can now point out some major flaws, an out-of-focus subject being one of them. ****, that always happens (see EXAMPLE 1 (http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/6707/example19aq.jpg)). :( I'm probably around the same level as you, but you know what? I'll probably progress faster because I have something to play with that is CAPABLE of taking the photographs that I want. Now, even when I have complete control over the camera, I still don't always take the photo that I want, and I can work on "Why not?"

Some photos I'm happy with right now, but i still want to find a flaw anyway, because I'm sure I made one somewhere, even if I don't know what it is yet (see EXAMPLE 2 (http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/7792/example28lk.jpg)). :rolleyes: A DSLR allows me to make minor adjustments that I can't make otherwise.

I disagree with you. Picture 1 is interesting at least. It may require some work, but it isn't ugly. Kinda cool actually, the different focus field. (did you focus manually?) Picture 2 is boring, uninteresting, and 'flat'. There is no foreground. Just subject and a kinda lousy background. Is it in focus? Yes. Is the lighting right? Yes. Does it hold my attention? Not really.

Photography is more about what you can capture, not how you capture it. I've seen picture taken on cell-phone cameras (~1 megapixel) that look better than morons with $2000 DSLRs take. If you don't have the skill, you can't get a decent picture. The skill can be improved upon, but usually if you start out simple (KISS method) you are able to expand easier. Just my take on it.

Abstract
Feb 7, 2006, 07:10 AM
I think my first photo would have been a LOT nicer if the flower was sharp throughout. However, I'm learning. I didn't even think this was a bad thing until I stared at it and thought about it for awhile. I also have trouble getting nice sharp photos. At last my subject should be sharp, IMO.

And the "portrait" was cool for me because I didn't realize that she was well lit until AFTER I saw the photo on my computer screen. I didn't even realize that lighting like in my 2nd photo would make such a big difference. I thought it was all about narrowing the focal range and softening everything in the background when that's clearly not the case (IMO). I think I learned something from my OWN photo that I'll take with me for awhile (I don't know anything about lighting, otherwise), which is why I like this one so much. The background is lousy though.

Nutter
Feb 7, 2006, 07:49 AM
My opinion:

You should get an SLR. There are so many things about photography you just can't learn on a P&S.

BUT, don't buy an expensive camera! There's no point, because the quality you can get from the cheapest digital SLRs from Canon and Nikon is already excellent, and they're improving at such a rate that it's better to upgrade in a few years than to spend a fortune on the best camera money can buy today.

Your money is much better spent on good glass, which will last you many many more years than the camera.

Even so, I would recommend you start with prime lens (not a zoom), as these force you to develop good technique. Incidentally, they're very cheap and optically superior to all but the most expensive zoom lenses. Don't bother with the D50's kit lens, you won't learn as much from it and it won't take pictures as good as a prime lens.

The Nikon D50 (http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikond50/) and a Nikkor 50mm AF f1.8D (http://www.fredmiranda.com/reviews/showproduct.php?product=62&sort=7&cat=12&page=1) lens would be an excellent start. This is the kit I'm considering as my first digital SLR, and I've been taking photographs with a 35mm SLR for quite a few years now.

Spending more money WON'T get you better pictures when you're starting out, I can guarantee it.

kiwi-in-uk
Feb 7, 2006, 08:35 AM
I agree with Mechosmo.
Learn as much as you can using your point & shoot. Practise, practise, practise, learn, learn, learn. Until you KNOW why the camera is holding you back (focus & lighting are not good reasons - all point & shoot cameras can focus, and you can control the lighting).
Learn what makes a good shot (the equipment simply captures the situation you have seen, foreseen, or created). Read the books. Talk to people who pay their mortgages & feed their kids by taking photos. Listen and learn.
Good luck.

GoCubsGo
Feb 7, 2006, 07:59 PM
Glenn,
All I keep seeing is how you should learn your point and shoot. If you were at all serious then you would replace the words "point and shoot" with the words SLR. I am a purist, I do things in a darkroom that you'll never be able to do. Mostly because life is all digital these days. However, you need to learn how to work with an SLR. Put that stupid P&S down. You don't need a super fancy SLR, but you need one. You need to understand things such as focal length and proper exposure. You don't need to learn the zone system, but you need to understand the reasons why it is there.

I noticed that you also said you were a writer. I hope you have an editor because your spelled and grammar sucks. Then again, I think you're more self-proclaimed...we're all famous in our bedrooms behind our computers!

I think you're totally looking in the wrong direction. I think you see photography as an easy thing to get into, when in fact it is not. I know because I've been there. I swore I'd never do a wedding, but when I wasn't able to get any commercial gigs, I had to do weddings. Lucky for me I was always provided top rate equipment at no cost to me. However, sometimes I did have to do what I didn't love so much in order to keep doing what I did love.

I just think you're in way over your head and that your ego is getting in the way of what is really possible. I think you can do this, but you won't know for another 5-10 years. For now, spend the next year learning on an SLR and see what happens. You may end up with 1000 awesome photos and you may sell 900 of them. But you will still find yourself learning, even after that year. Listen to some of the people here kiddo.

Mechcozmo
Feb 7, 2006, 08:02 PM
And the "portrait" was cool for me because I didn't realize that she was well lit until AFTER I saw the photo on my computer screen. I didn't even realize that lighting like in my 2nd photo would make such a big difference.

And this is where my point comes into "focus". By coming through the ranks slowly you learn what the picture will look like before you take it, not after. I can take pictures and know they will look fine without needing to review them just based on the shutter speed and f-stop that the camera chooses and the lighting outside. If need be, I also know what shutter speed to lock down at, and then I'll shoot and adjust. It is alright to have to play with the settings a bit, because eventually you learn what settings to learn at what times based on your prior usage. A point and shoot will let you do that. An SLR means you start to blame the camera, the lens, the fact you didn't know about an obscure option... the P&S means you have to learn and adapt.

I started my journey with a 35mm camera that had a 3x zoom and a flash. I started also with "If you're shooing from the light into shadow, use the flash." I've learned quite a bit since then, but the few times I forgot I was presented with a bad picture. :rolleyes: You learn slowly and move up.

Oh, and sorry about the pun. It just flashed into my head as I was writing this post and I couldn't not put it in.:)

Clix Pix
Feb 7, 2006, 09:33 PM
Jessica's post reminded me of something. Anyone here remember the classic "student camera," the Pentax K1000? Totally manual, reasonably-priced, the camera that many PHT 101 students brought to class and learned on through the semester and beyond. That's the kind of camera Glenn should get for his first SLR, and he should take a class or two, learn darkroom techniques and all of that, work with developing his own film, developing and printing his own images....and only after that move on to a digital SLR.

I don't imagine that the K1000 is available these days except on eBay, and there really isn't a digital SLR that is quite its equivalent as far as I can see. However, there's always the option of buying an inexpensive DSLR and then using it in strictly all manual mode so that it truly serves as a learning tool.

Working in the darkroom has a magic and a mystique that working in Photoshop just can't match...

Kilchzimmer
Feb 8, 2006, 04:55 AM
why buy a camera that won't last too long and won't do everything i want too in the next year or two, I will get something good that will last.

When buying a DSLR you need to remind yourself that you are not buying a camera as much as investing in a "system" (lenses, flash system, etc.). Meaning.... No matter which digital camera you get, it (the camera body) will become outdated. Being Nikon, though, you can use any Nikon lens on the latest camera body. With an older lens, you may sacrifice (with work around solutions) a few minor features where the camera communicates with the lens.

I am using a Nikon D70s and it works great for my work as a photograper. True, the D200 feels much more solid but is heavier and much pricier. I wouldn't mind having it for my rugged photo projects to 3rd world countries! The D70 with a Nikon lens will give you the sharpness and quality needed. I suggest to go with the D70(s) and spend the money saved, on simple studio lighting or a good external flash (Nikon SB800). Lighting is VERY important!
In this business, aesthetics, composition, subject matter, etc. are of no value without a technically well executed photo (and vise versa).
Don't fall into the "megapixel myth" marketing hype! That 6mp camera (D70s) is far superior to many 8+megapixel cameras (especially those high-end P&S - waste of money...having owned one).

One place to "break into" selling your photos is iStock photo (http://www.istockphoto.com). BEFORE you submit photos to them for acceptance, look how the photos are taken on the site. For stock photos, you need to know how the photos will be used by designers (room for text, etc.), which is different than a photo hanging on a wall.

"Many of the photographers labled as talented by the world are those who survived the period in their life where they were untalented". If you have the talent, get the training to bring it out. There are no short cuts.
When it comes to practice, I still have to remind myself that it doesn't cost me a cent to click away (coming from the period where I had to cut out meals in college to buy film for my photo courses).

I could go on, but will stop there... :)

Lau
Feb 8, 2006, 05:19 AM
Jessica's post reminded me of something. Anyone here remember the classic "student camera," the Pentax K1000? Totally manual, reasonably-priced, the camera that many PHT 101 students brought to class and learned on through the semester and beyond. That's the kind of camera Glenn should get for his first SLR, and he should take a class or two, learn darkroom techniques and all of that, work with developing his own film, developing and printing his own images....and only after that move on to a digital SLR.

I don't imagine that the K1000 is available these days except on eBay, and there really isn't a digital SLR that is quite its equivalent as far as I can see. However, there's always the option of buying an inexpensive DSLR and then using it in strictly all manual mode so that it truly serves as a learning tool.

Working in the darkroom has a magic and a mystique that working in Photoshop just can't match...

Heh - that's my camera! I love it to bits. I learnt on a Praktica SLR made in 1971 (lasted me from when I was 14 till when I was 22 or so), and when it died I upgraded to the Pentax. 50 from eBay, and the best learning experience ever.

If you really want to be a good photographer, this is the way to start. I believe I may have said something similar in another thread of yours (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=2078024&postcount=20).

Tel
Feb 8, 2006, 06:49 AM
I hope you have an editor because your spelled and grammar sucks.

Ironic really. :rolleyes:

Sdashiki
Feb 8, 2006, 09:51 AM
Jessica's post reminded me of something. Anyone here remember the classic "student camera," the Pentax K1000? Totally manual, reasonably-priced, the camera that many PHT 101 students brought to class and learned on through the semester and beyond. That's the kind of camera Glenn should get for his first SLR, and he should take a class or two, learn darkroom techniques and all of that, work with developing his own film, developing and printing his own images....and only after that move on to a digital SLR.

Working in the darkroom has a magic and a mystique that working in Photoshop just can't match...

and the ability to get into a darkroom is very hard unless you are in college or at a good high school.

in any case, it is a damn good assumption to understand the analog aspects of photography.

digital is all well and good, but if you are willing to become a "professional" a 35mm SLR is a better buy than any fancy camera.

Learning how light makes an image through different f-stops and shutter speeds with a dial and not a button and LCD menu, is so much a better teacher than point click "do I like?" "no" erase.

With 35mm you get 24-36 shots and at least 1hr to see what you did.

"Professionals" go through HUNDREDS of rolls to get even ONE decent marketable shot. Photoshop brought this number down some, and digital photography dropped the costs again without the need to develop all those rolls.

But in the end, i wont flame you for being in way over your head.

I will say that you MUST get a 35mm, a decent wide angle lens, a zoom lens, flash and a tripod. When you switch to digital later, if you buy a major brand (Nikon, Canon etc) the lenses will be most likely useable on your new equipment.

pick up a Canon AE-1 (http://www.canon.com/camera-museum/camera/f_camera.html)those are THE SHIZZLE MY NIZZLE, ask any photographer. if you can, pick up one with the Auto (AE-1 Program) feature. But I can say this about them, mine is about 30 yrs old I believe and still runs great, just eats about a battery a year.

Photography is in of itself an analog venture. The capturing of photons in one state forever. You can digitize light all you want, but if you dont know HOW it does it, how can you say you know what you are doing?

Glenn Wolsey
Feb 8, 2006, 10:05 AM
Ironic really. :rolleyes:

Because my spelled sucks? I think you need the editor.

ChrisA
Feb 8, 2006, 11:14 AM
I would also recommend attending all the seminars/school/classes you can.

And NOT just photo classes. The (yes "THE") number one reason for bussinesses not working is not that the owner doesn't know the technical end of it. For example resterants don't go broke because the chef can't cook they go broke because the owner has spent years learning to cook but zero time learning how to run a bussines. The second reason they fail is under capitalization - they run out of money before they can build a customer base. Every bussines plan involves loosing money at the beginning

Anyone can start a photography bussines and lose money but to make money requires "people skills", sales skills and managment skils

I would think that a good market might be to sell to web designers. They always need images and many use stock images because they are cheap and available. If you could combine photography with a graphic arts and web design service and keep the costs down you might do well. Your potflio would be on-line. Fresh, custom photography can make a web site stand out You will have to develope a style that peole want to buy