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View Full Version : Razer mouse is cutting edge for certain pro users


MacBytes
Feb 6, 2006, 08:34 AM
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Category: Reviews
Link: Razer mouse is cutting edge for certain pro users (http://www.macbytes.com/link.php?sid=20060206093415)
Description:: "Macsimum News" reviews the Pro Solutions v1.6 mouse and the ProPad.

Posted on MacBytes.com (http://www.macbytes.com)
Approved by Mudbug

mkrishnan
Feb 6, 2006, 08:39 AM
It's certainly pretty! :) I don't really do cables, though. ;)

SiliconAddict
Feb 6, 2006, 10:24 AM
Gah. Can we please stop with the need for hyper intensive blue?

nagromme
Feb 6, 2006, 12:15 PM
Fingertip control: GOOD. That's what I've always liked about Apple's mice, compared to these giant liver-shaped sofa-mice that are so popular these days. Moving my fingertips is easier and more precise than swinging my whole arm from the shoulder, with my arm's weight bearing down on the mouse to add friction.

Twice the speed: THAT does not sound good for precision clicking! well, I can always turn that down. No harm done.

mkrishnan
Feb 6, 2006, 12:22 PM
Twice the speed: THAT does not sound good for precision clicking! well, I can always turn that down. No harm done.

So, I think the idea is that it's very high resolution, but you can set the speed to whatever you want. But whatever movement you make should be more faithfully transcribed. That makes me wonder. For some people, almost the opposite would be better. That is, to apply a smoothing algorithm to mouse motions so that your jerking is taken out. Although that might be trippy, just a little bit of it might be good. I know some OSes have snap-to-button type mouse features, but I wonder if anyone has ever tried this?

shadowfax
Feb 6, 2006, 12:25 PM
Twice the speed: THAT does not sound good for precision clicking! well, I can always turn that down. No harm done.
I thought they meant that it registered motion twice as frequently, meaning it was more accurate and sensitive. I don't think that has anything to do with cursor movement speed.

greatdevourer
Feb 6, 2006, 01:01 PM
Meh. I'd still take my MX1000 over that anyday :D

nagromme
Feb 6, 2006, 01:42 PM
It's both: double the "frames per second" and double the dots per inch compared to typical mice.

Double the dots per inch makes the cursor go twice as fast--but you can back the speed off in Preferences.

As for frames per second (precision), that raises a good question: I always assumed that OS is only registering mouse positions as fast as it can... and that the bottleneck is not the rate of the mouse sending coordinates to the OS. Is that the case? Or is the OS normally waiting on the mouse, and could actually draw more frames per second of mouse movement?

I'm inclined to think my assumption is correct: this mouse can detect 6400 frames per second, compared to 3200 from a "normal" mouse. But I don't think the computer ever comes CLOSE to drawing (or detecting clicks for) that many frames per second. So I think they may be touting some theoretical capability in some chip the mouse uses, even knowing that this capability can never be used.

Any thoughts on how 6400 frames per second of mouse coordinates could be used by the computer? The review says that "may not mean much to some users" so I wonder who the other users are :p

shadowfax
Feb 6, 2006, 02:05 PM
Double the dots per inch makes the cursor go twice as fast--but you can back the speed off in Preferences.
I still question that. I don't know that there is a direct correspondence of "dots per inch" on the mouse's plain of motion and "dots per inch" on the screen. That is, I don't think that speed is regulated by the resolution of the mouse. the resolution of the mouse is a measure of how accurately it can register motion. how that resolution is mapped to the screen is completely arbitrary, because it's determined by algorithms that account for speed and acceleration rather than just a motion from this spot to that spot that correspond to this pixel and that pixel on the screen. again, changing the resolution of either thing doesn't have to change the dynamics of the mouse motion.

this mouse may, though, move way too fast for mac users by default with their preferences. I would imagine this is more related to the fact that they think apple makes their mice move too slow. It's a very common thing for people who switch from Windows, and, I would imagine, gamers... In any case, it's not so much due to the resolution as how they map the resolution to the screen (and to the slider).

greatdevourer
Feb 6, 2006, 02:10 PM
[QUOTE=nagrommeI wonder who the other users are :p[/QUOTE] Gamers. Almost all laser mice currently are marketed as "gaming mice". Increased speed, double the DPI, double the fps, smaller response time... perfect :D

nagromme
Feb 6, 2006, 04:01 PM
So there are games that can run over 3200 fps?

A faster mouse is good for (some) gamers, but that particular spec of this mouse doesn't seem to be relevant.


the resolution of the mouse is a measure of how accurately it can register motion.
Agreed. Higher DPI per se could mean nothing more than the ability to track accurately on a texture too fine for another mouse to "see."

But I'm led to believe (corrections welcomed) that in practice, this does mean double the mouse cursor speed. Because now the mouse only has to move half as far before the sensor detects "one dot" of motion. So when a lower DPI mouse sees only "one dot's worth" of motion (or, say, 100 if you're moving faster), this mouse sees two (or 200). And it sends that extra distance to the computer, moving the cursor twice as far.

So one dot in the mouse does NOT equal one dot on the screen (the OS and acceleration algorithms determine that). But twice as many dots traveled DO mean twice the speed on-screen.

Now, circuitry in the mouse could compensate for that, using the extra DPI for accuracy but not for speed. I'd like that, in fact. But this mouse (and others I've read about) don't seem to work that way. They DO deliver extra speed.

XNine
Feb 6, 2006, 04:14 PM
FUD. I own this mouse, and it is godlike. It owns every other mouse out there, and coupled with the Pro Pad, the ability to do anything in Photoshop/illustrator is about 98% of the way to using a Wacom tab. The control is amazing and intuitive, and the mouse is ultimately comfortable.

This is the best money I've ever spent on ANY periphreal.

nagromme
Feb 6, 2006, 04:28 PM
I never said anything against the mouse--I like small mice--just that doubling the speed of the on-screen cursor (which is optional anyway) doesn't sound good for precise clicking.

mkrishnan
Feb 6, 2006, 07:52 PM
Yeah, sorry, I don't mean to FUD either. I think the mouse sounds wonderful. I just don't do wires. ;)

shadowfax
Feb 6, 2006, 08:32 PM
So there are games that can run over 3200 fps?
Tic-Tac-Toe and Chess in monochrome. Duh! ;)

nagromme
Feb 6, 2006, 09:24 PM
Chess IS fun that way! Thanks! :)

Daveway
Feb 6, 2006, 09:47 PM
Ouch! Its a 404.:(

svenr
Feb 7, 2006, 05:24 AM
this mouse can detect 6400 frames per second, compared to 3200 from a "normal" mouse. But I don't think the computer ever comes CLOSE to drawing (or detecting clicks for) that many frames per second. So I think they may be touting some theoretical capability in some chip the mouse uses, even knowing that this capability can never be used.

The fps don't refer to the rate at which the mouse transmits data to the computer but to the rate at which the optical sensor takes "pictures". Those are two different things. Think about it, it takes AT LEAST two pics to generate one motion vector (= one data set to send).

The processor on board of the mouse compares several of those sensor images. In order to determine motion reliably, it needs to figure out how one image relates to the prior image, i.e. it needs to find an overlapping area in subsequent pics for orientation. The faster the sensor takes pictures, the higher the chance that sufficient overlap is detected even when you move the mouse very fast.

From that image data, the mouse calculates motion vectors to send to the computer - over regular USB at 125 times per sec, although many mice now offer "full-speed USB" with higher polling rates. How much sense that makes is anyone's guess given that a typical screen does not refresh more than 100 times per sec.

And yes, there are plenty of games that need very fast moves and can easily use that capability, just ask any serious Counter Striker or Unreal Tournament player.