Apple SW Update for 3rd Parties? [Archive]

MacRumors

Jan 19, 2003, 08:37 PM

One source claims that Apple may open up Mac OS X's Software Update to 3rd party developers.

Such a move would allow non-Apple applications to be automatically downloaded/updated with the same painless method as current Mac OS X updates.

Such a feature would be released as a SDK interface for developers and may find its way into OS X as early as 10.3.

Tue12

Jan 19, 2003, 08:41 PM

It's a "no brainer" really. It's a concept that's well overdue for implementation.

MrMacMan

Jan 19, 2003, 08:46 PM

Wow this migh be quite Intresting, if true.

This might lead to some very new paths.

medea

Jan 19, 2003, 08:51 PM

this is a damn fine idea, lets hope it becomes a reality.

dricci

Jan 19, 2003, 08:56 PM

Finally! No more hunting around Version Tracker or MacUpdate to see if I'm running the latest build of things. This is a very good idea, and would be the ultimate addition to Apple's "ease of use."

I'm just wondering how this would work, would it have to check in with Apple's servers, or would the developers be able to specify their own update URL?

dwishbone

Jan 19, 2003, 09:04 PM

well, in apple's attempt to compete against microsoft sometimes i think they forget about the other main player...Linux.
There are several versions of Linux that offer integrated updaters like this. They let you know of new versions of programs and libraries that have installed in your distribution. It is usually pretty painless. I have no doubt if Apple does this it will be one of the best (and a great selling point I might add) features to MacOS X. As long as they can do this without getting any personal information (aka. Palladium) I'm all for it.
Viva La Apple!!!!

NoWonder

Jan 19, 2003, 09:11 PM

Great idea IF and ONLY IF apple puts some real security around it. This would be a very tempting way to roll out a virus.

--nw

RBMaraman

Jan 19, 2003, 09:19 PM

Is Apple already partenered with Aladdin Systems to do this? Here's the reason I think they are.

For Christmas, my parents got my brother a 17" iMac. After we got it hooked up, I ran software update. One of the updates I had to download was an update for Aladdin Systems Stuffit Expander. This was the first non-Apple update I had ever seen. Is anyone had this happen?

Hemingray

Jan 19, 2003, 09:26 PM

Originally posted by RBMaraman
Is Apple already partenered with Aladdin Systems to do this? Here's the reason I think they are.

For Christmas, my parents got my brother a 17" iMac. After we got it hooked up, I ran software update. One of the updates I had to download was an update for Aladdin Systems Stuffit Expander. This was the first non-Apple update I had ever seen. Is anyone had this happen?

Apple did this because it was a "security update" and as far as I know all Macs are bundled with StuffIt Expander, so it's their responsibility to notify us of the update. Just like Internet Explorer updates show up, even though it's made by M$.

atodd

Jan 19, 2003, 09:29 PM

Yeah.

They need to separate the 3rd-party updates from the Apple ones though. Make them in a separate tab. This is so you can, say, only download system updates if you want to. Plus there would be a LOT of stuff to pick through. A preference pane to customise which apps you want in the SWupdate?

Freg3000

Jan 19, 2003, 09:31 PM

Sounds like something to be bundled in with Mac OS 10.3 :)

Catfish_Man

Jan 19, 2003, 09:36 PM

On a semi related note (services for 3rd party apps), it seems to me that the crash log service could VERY easily be modified to provide something like Mozilla/Chimera/Omniweb's talkback to any program that wanted it. That would be spiffy.

BigJayhawk

Jan 19, 2003, 09:45 PM

Very WELCOME Idea.

guifa

Jan 19, 2003, 10:04 PM

I have a feeling that Apple won't actually host the updates/update information on their services (at least without a fee), but in the Info.plist or elsewhere in the the application bundle there will be a place to insert a URL to point Software Update in the right direction.

It sounds like a very good idea, hopefully it won't require a really big fancy server with CGI and such. Perhaps .mac support for developers?

ibjoshua

Jan 19, 2003, 10:16 PM

I imagine if they wanted they could make it like Sherlock using some sort of web service (SOAP maybe). Then anyone who wanted to could build a module.

It'd be nice if they could get it to work with Fink too.

i_b_joshua

rainman::|:|

Jan 19, 2003, 10:22 PM

i've been waiting for this since software update became stable. It only makes sense. Even the apps that automatically check for updates don't do a good job, you're never sure if they'll open a browser window, use the one you're surfing in, automatically download, use browser download, automatically install, overwrite data, need restarting or not. hell, sometimes they don't work at all. Mozilla's update function never worked properly on my system; Norton's leaves the LiveUpdate app running once it's done (and there's no updates to be found).

This would dramatically add to ease-of-use for the semi-computer literate... one of the things i found most as a computer consultant is people who were running software that was years old, dealing with bugs on a daily basis that had long ago been fixed. There are whole new sets of bugs out there to be had ;)

pnw

Buggy

Jan 19, 2003, 10:35 PM

They will probably only make it available to .MAC users. :D

IndyGopher

Jan 19, 2003, 10:59 PM

Originally posted by Buggy
They will probably only make it available to .MAC users. :D
I hope so. Get more people to shell out for .Mac, and make it a better deal for those of us who do.

Duff-Man

Jan 19, 2003, 11:35 PM

Duff-man says: good idea, as long as they keep an eye on it and don't just anyone drop stuff in for auto update...wouldn't be too long before someone with a twisted "sense of humour" put their new destructive mac os x virus in software update. oh yeah!

ennerseed

Jan 19, 2003, 11:44 PM

Originally posted by Duff-Man
Duff-man says: good idea, as long as they keep an eye on it and don't just anyone drop stuff in for auto update...wouldn't be too long before someone with a twisted "sense of humour" put their new destructive mac os x virus in software update. oh yeah!

my thought excatly

arn

Jan 19, 2003, 11:53 PM

if this does happen... the other question is how to deal with paid upgrades...

Let's say a major revision of an application comes out... and costs $99. Will SoftwareUpdate handle it? Or will it only do free-upgades?

arn

Hemingray

Jan 20, 2003, 12:13 AM

Originally posted by arn
if this does happen... the other question is how to deal with paid upgrades...

Let's say a major revision of an application comes out... and costs $99. Will SoftwareUpdate handle it? Or will it only do free-upgades?

arn

Hm, now there's an interesting thought! I suppose they could treat it almost like iPhoto when you order prints, have the 1-click system implemented into Software Update or something. I don't really see Apple allowing for 3rd-party apps to do that, only the Apple brand products. But that's a pretty cool idea.

Choppaface

Jan 20, 2003, 12:25 AM

many apps already have update checking features

shadowfax

Jan 20, 2003, 12:35 AM

i think this would be a nice feature for just free updates, which most tend to be. then they could just inform you about non-free updates.

speechgod

Jan 20, 2003, 12:45 AM

I personally know the developer of UpdateRadar, Ricci Adams. Update Radar already does most of this.

Seems Update Radar is going to become the next Watson.

His site: ricciadams.com (http://www.ricciadams.com)

shadowfax

Jan 20, 2003, 01:19 AM

rainman::|:|

Jan 20, 2003, 01:57 AM

Originally posted by speechgod
I personally know the developer of UpdateRadar, Ricci Adams. Update Radar already does most of this.

Seems Update Radar is going to become the next Watson.

His site: ricciadams.com (http://www.ricciadams.com)

Watson had a number of specific features that Sherlock then incorporated. Update Radar has one feature that's based loosely on Apple's software update to begin with, and he takes the next step. Not a terribly original idea, just a larger implimentation. So i wouldn't complain too loudly, i doubt they did any personal programming plagerism. He had something before Apple did, and he has something nice to put on his resume.

:)
pnw

Ricci Adams

Jan 20, 2003, 03:06 AM

Since this topic seems to have shifted to me, I suppose that I should make my grand first post here on Macrumors.com :)

First off, Apple incorporating 3rd party software into Software Update is truly awesome and it will definitely help both the developer and end-user community.

Even though many of my friends have been informing me that I have been "Watsoned", I honestly do not feel that this is the case. Yes, UpdateRadar tells you when your applications need updating; however, it also helps you find new programs to try out via integrated "Search", "Latest Software", and "Top Software" panels ("Top Software" panel available in UpdateRadar 4.0, which should be released very soon).

Rest assured that UpdateRadar support will continue even if Apple adds 3rd party options to Software Update. Adding these features to Software Update is a very logical step for them to take and will definitely benefit a lot of people out there :) I wish Apple the best for all their new features in 10.3!

rainman::|:|

Jan 20, 2003, 03:53 AM

Ricci,

First, let me welcome you to MR. Hope to see you stay a while :)

I've not yet used UpdateRadar, tho i plan to after seeing that it can track software that's not installed. I usually spend a few minutes a day at VT or download.com looking for/at the latest software releases and updates, so this will greatly simplify the process. I'm glad you're not upset by rumors of Apple implimenting the feature, as you can see by my prior post I agree with you. A feature implimentation is much different than a complete overhaul of a program to look and function almost exactly like another...

I'm also tempted to try out Checklist-- you have some very good ideas that seem to be well implimented...

Keep up the good work!
pnw

Sol

Jan 20, 2003, 04:08 AM

Call me old-fashioned but I prefer to download updates manually. The reason is that with Software Update I cannot keep the big file I just downloaded into my hard drive for backup purposes. In Australia we have download limits for broadband connections so re-downloading a file is a waste. If third party developers start using Software Update I would like to see an option to save their files in a user-selected location.

joed

Jan 20, 2003, 05:06 AM

I would think it would an extension of OSX Downloads (http://www.apple.com/downloads/macosx/), where items can be searched (freeware, demo, shareware etc). Or it would check your system profile for applications and then compare that with Apples database therefore giving a list of updates that can be installed.

James.

praetorian_x

Jan 20, 2003, 08:49 AM

Funny, "apt-get update" has always worked for me. God bless you Fink...

Cheers,
prat

Sol

Jan 20, 2003, 08:53 AM

I just thought that there may be some privacy issues with this function of OS X. Would Apple have the right to police for infringements to its licences on user's computers once it has a record on its servers?

Wyvernspirit

Jan 20, 2003, 10:42 AM

Originally posted by Sol
Call me old-fashioned but I prefer to download updates manually. The reason is that with Software Update I cannot keep the big file I just downloaded into my hard drive for backup purposes. In Australia we have download limits for broadband connections so re-downloading a file is a waste. If third party developers start using Software Update I would like to see an option to save their files in a user-selected location.

Actually Software Update has this feature. I'm not at my mac, so I can't tell you how (its not intuitive). I remember someone on the apple discussion boards commenting on it. It is good to have in case the download gets interrupted.

I'll post later, when I'm at my mac, if no one else does in regards to this.

Wyvernspirit

Jan 20, 2003, 10:47 AM

Actually, I found a reference to it early, so here you go:

In the Software Update application goto: Menu Bar->Update->Download Checked Items to Desktop. This will allow you to download the full packages to you desktop for archiving.

MasterX (OSiX)

Jan 20, 2003, 12:03 PM

Actually I remember reading a long time ago (pre 10.1, before most of your OSX newbs got into the OS ;-) ) that Apple was planning on opening SWUD to 3rd parties. i think it worked like this: you have an update, you pass on the info to apple, and they update the master SWUD server. The client side SWUD detects if you are using this software or not, then informs you of an update. Apple doesn't seem to have any plans for forcing you to install new (err, well new 3rd party) SW.

not that i don't like SWUD reminding me on my 2nd computer than i didn't install iSync, saves me hassle. I agree with an earlier post, it's sad to see people running old software with bugs they fight with which have since been fixed. As for individual updaters i'm starting to hate them. Quicktime seems weird, SWUD will tell you of a QT patch, but doesn't handle it (i think??). Also something like PhotoShop which goes online EVERY TIME I OPEN IT didn't even tell me about 7.0.1. Talk about crazy coding.

pgwalsh

Jan 20, 2003, 12:19 PM

Originally posted by arn
if this does happen... the other question is how to deal with paid upgrades...

Let's say a major revision of an application comes out... and costs $99. Will SoftwareUpdate handle it? Or will it only do free-upgades?

arn I think there should be a window that shows all the paid updates. It should have tabs with a window that allows you to ignore that update and to pay for it. Ignored updates will not show up once it's put in the ignored window. A fourth tab should show all the updates you've downloaded and all the up dates you've paid for. You shold also be allowed to search for freeware in a fifth program. This window should show what that application does etc.

Hes Nikke

Jan 20, 2003, 01:09 PM

Originally posted by paulwhannel
i've been waiting for this since software update became stable. It only makes sense. Even the apps that automatically check for updates don't do a good job, you're never sure if they'll open a browser window, use the one you're surfing in, automatically download, use browser download, automatically install, overwrite data, need restarting or not. hell, sometimes they don't work at all. Mozilla's update function never worked properly on my system; Norton's leaves the LiveUpdate app running once it's done (and there's no updates to be found).

This would dramatically add to ease-of-use for the semi-computer literate... one of the things i found most as a computer consultant is people who were running software that was years old, dealing with bugs on a daily basis that had long ago been fixed. There are whole new sets of bugs out there to be had ;)

pnw

i have made it easy for cocoa developers to implement there own version checking through NFVersionChecker (http://www.versiontracker.com/moreinfo.fcgi?id=17021&db=mac), it always opens the user spesified web brower to the URL that the devloper provides, wether that is directly to the file or to a web page, that is up to the developer, and it does not self install - unless the developer uses the new wiz-bang self install disk images ;)

Grizelmac

Jan 20, 2003, 01:46 PM

This is a good idea. Developers could also use www.powerupdate.com to do the same sort of thing.

It does cost money, but seems similar.

ars

gopher

Jan 20, 2003, 06:17 PM

Might have already been mentioned, the software update should support resumable downloads for the people who still have 56k. It is one of the worst offenders of the program that this feature is missing, and puts people wanting to update their system either waiting for a CD to purchase, or trying to download software at work and transfering it home, or waiting for the update to become available in the knowledgebase. Even better would be if Apple started getting power companies to agree to start power line based broadband in every country. With no infrustructure to build, Apple could become its own big broadband service provider should it so choose, and make Software Updates via the web a viable option for the 85% of the public that doesn't have broadband now.

deejemon

Jan 21, 2003, 02:41 AM

matt_mlsw

Jan 21, 2003, 04:31 AM

wareWolf works with VT, MacUpdate and MacOSXApps. And its free. :cool:

www.myndlinksw.com

backdraft

Jan 21, 2003, 05:10 PM

Originally posted by Sol
Call me old-fashioned but I prefer to download updates manually. The reason is that with Software Update I cannot keep the big file I just downloaded into my hard drive for backup purposes. In Australia we have download limits for broadband connections so re-downloading a file is a waste. If third party developers start using Software Update I would like to see an option to save their files in a user-selected location.

Actually you can, just look under the update menu. Next you download an update go to update > save as before installing.:D

MacKid

Jan 21, 2003, 08:37 PM

Originally posted by gopher
Might have already been mentioned, the software update should support resumable downloads for the people who still have 56k. It is one of the worst offenders of the program that this feature is missing, and puts people wanting to update their system either waiting for a CD to purchase, or trying to download software at work and transfering it home, or waiting for the update to become available in the knowledgebase. Even better would be if Apple started getting power companies to agree to start power line based broadband in every country. With no infrustructure to build, Apple could become its own big broadband service provider should it so choose, and make Software Updates via the web a viable option for the 85% of the public that doesn't have broadband now.

Software Update uses a cache function which allows it to keep it and install it all in the same program session, and it's in some CoreServices folder.