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View Full Version : New Pentax Bodies: Am I the Only Excited One?




kwajo.com
Feb 26, 2006, 10:13 PM
I know no one else around here will care because the world is obsessed with Canon and Nikon, but I'm a Pentax man and I'm pumped about the announcements recently about new higher-end bodies. I am mainly excited about these announcements because it is good news for the future of Pentax (and my years of lens investments). They look like they are going to be great models. more fuel to the fire of me convincing people that Pentax hasn't disappeared and that no, I am not living in the 60s or 70s lol :cool:
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0602/06022307pentaxnews.asp



bousozoku
Feb 26, 2006, 10:16 PM
I'm glad to see more from Pentax but there is more to the story: Samsung.

It's scary but Samsung is working with Pentax to create their own digital SLRs. It's not much different than Panasonic and Olympus working together.

I hope that Pentax makes some mindshare out of this. They were always good as a solid brand X.

Chaszmyr
Feb 26, 2006, 10:17 PM
I've never even heard of Pentax before. The camera looks very cool, but I think the bottom line for most people is that a nice digital camera is a significant investment, and people trust Canon and Nikon. (And moreover, many of us are stuck with a specific brand for lens reasons, as I am sure you know)

kwajo.com
Feb 26, 2006, 10:17 PM
oh yeah I should post the AMAZING new medium-format 645:

this thing is going to be fantastic, I can taste it

I'm glad to see more from Pentax but there is more to the story: Samsung.

It's scary but Samsung is working with Pentax to create their own digital SLRs. It's not much different than Panasonic and Olympus working together.

I hope that Pentax makes some mindshare out of this. They were always good as a solid brand X.

while I'm not trilled about the Samsung partnership from a 'selling out' rationale, I am glad it happened because it ensures growth of the k-mount lens market

bousozoku
Feb 26, 2006, 10:33 PM
I've never even heard of Pentax before. The camera looks very cool, but I think the bottom line for most people is that a nice digital camera is a significant investment, and people trust Canon and Nikon. (And moreover, many of us are stuck with a specific brand for lens reasons, as I am sure you know)

There was a time when people had never heard of Canon, and Pentax was important. How many cameras used Pentax-mount lenses? :D
oh yeah I should post the AMAZING new medium-format 645:

this thing is going to be fantastic, I can taste it

The 645 was always an amazing camera that, like other Pentax cameras (110 film SLR!), didn't fit the norm. It's odd to see the 645 with an SLR form instead of the upside down viewfinder where it started.

Chaszmyr
Feb 26, 2006, 10:36 PM
oh yeah I should post the AMAZING new medium-format 645:

this thing is going to be fantastic, I can taste it

"Medium-format" usually refers to the negative size, yes? What would the advantage of a medium-format digital camera be? larger image sensor? Do they even make large, high-quality digital image sensors?

EDIT: I think I'm right about the image sensor being larger, since it says it's a large kodak 18.6mpx sensor. Please confirm, though

kwajo.com
Feb 26, 2006, 10:52 PM
the medium format sensors are the size of medium format film, kind of like how most dSLRs have sensors that are sized like 35mm or APS film.

the advantages are numerous, most significant to me is very low noise and the ability to make very large prints (posters, billboards, etc.)

Mike Teezie
Feb 26, 2006, 11:34 PM
That medium format dSLR looks awesome!

The 10mp dSLR looks mighty comfortable to hold. Any idea on the price, kwajo?

Counterfit
Feb 26, 2006, 11:47 PM
Do they even make large, high-quality digital image sensors?
Absolutely. There are digital backs for medium and large format cameras that exceed 100MP. Granted, they cost well over $100k and require to be hooked directly to a computer, but they exist. :)

kwajo.com
Feb 27, 2006, 12:29 AM
That medium format dSLR looks awesome!

The 10mp dSLR looks mighty comfortable to hold. Any idea on the price, kwajo?

it does look comfy, I have the current Pentax offerings and they have a great feel, I can only imagine that this is the same, maybe even better since it is slightly larger.

as for price my guess would be somewhere in the D200's range, though possible undercutting it. the reason I reference the D200 is that the rumors are that it might have the same sensor (kind of like how the D70(s) and the *ist DS share the same Sony sensor), but it may also be using a unique new Samsung (or Kodak) sensor.
Either way I want one NOW! ;)

Abstract
Feb 27, 2006, 06:05 AM
the medium format sensors are the size of medium format film, kind of like how most dSLRs have sensors that are sized like 35mm or APS film.

Most dSLRs aren't sized like 35mm, although I know what you mean. It's weird to see a medium format digital camera. Probably will cost a fortune, since one of those Hasselblads that are like 40 MP cost around $35k or so.

kwajo.com
Feb 27, 2006, 08:37 AM
yeah I know I shouldn't have worded it that way, but at least my point got across. I kind of wish there were more 35mm sized sensor cameras, I do mainly landscape work so it's hard to get very wide-angles with that 1.5x crop factor. On the other hand it's great for telephoto work. my old 135mm becomes a 200mm :cool:

I hope the 645 digital doesn't cost $35 grand, it'll put it way, way out of my reach. I'll secretly wishing for $10-15k but I might be living in a dream world

kwajo.com
Feb 27, 2006, 08:45 AM
I'm glad to see more from Pentax but there is more to the story: Samsung.

It's scary but Samsung is working with Pentax to create their own digital SLRs. It's not much different than Panasonic and Olympus working together.

Well, an interesting bit of news I've just read - On an interview at PMA with a Japanese press, Pentax claim the new 10MP body is NOT the co-developed DSLR body that's been publicized, and its purely another program altogether.

Now that leads to the conclusion that there will be yet another DSLR body ( the one that's suppose to be co-developed with Samsung ) to come this year, probaly this will be the one replacing all the DS/DS2/DL/DL2

I consider this great news. I purely Pentax developed model, maybe the last for a while, who knows!

gauchogolfer
Feb 27, 2006, 10:08 AM
Absolutely. There are digital backs for medium and large format cameras that exceed 100MP. Granted, they cost well over $100k and require to be hooked directly to a computer, but they exist. :)

Just to be picky, I think that these large format digital camera sensors are essentially scanners that move down the focal plane. Thus, they are good for still lifes or landscapes that don't change. I don't think there are any monolithic sensors yet at this size, unless someone has glued together 8 Canon CMOS 16mpixel sensors to make one huge one. Maybe this has changed recently, but that was the last I heard.

jared_kipe
Feb 27, 2006, 11:13 AM
Just to be picky, I think that these large format digital camera sensors are essentially scanners that move down the focal plane. Thus, they are good for still lifes or landscapes that don't change. I don't think there are any monolithic sensors yet at this size, unless someone has glued together 8 Canon CMOS 16mpixel sensors to make one huge one. Maybe this has changed recently, but that was the last I heard.
Too picky, cause you're wrong. There are several "monolithic" sensors out, and all the digital medium formats use them... for instance ... this http://www.mamiya.com/cameras.asp?id=1&id2=2107

ChrisA
Feb 27, 2006, 01:10 PM
"Medium-format" usually refers to the negative size, yes? What would the advantage of a medium-format digital camera be? larger image sensor? Do they even make large, high-quality digital image sensors?


Ho yes, they make them quite large. How much money do you have?
The 48mm x 36mm seems to be a "standard" size. They are about 22 to 30 megapixels
Several companies sell them it in both medium format and view camera backs. Some self contained and some that need to be tetherd to a computer.. Cost seems to be "a few tens of tousands to amount ten grand. There are some nice DSLRs that have this format chip in them. Lok at the new "ZD" by mamiya at www.mamiya.com

(Yes there ARE camera companies other than Nikon can Canon. It's just that these other companies sell to profesionals so you don't see there stuff at Best Buy. Mamiya, Hasselblad, Pentax, Sinar.. All offer high-end digital equipment)

bousozoku
Feb 27, 2006, 01:33 PM
Well, an interesting bit of news I've just read - On an interview at PMA with a Japanese press, Pentax claim the new 10MP body is NOT the co-developed DSLR body that's been publicized, and its purely another program altogether.

Now that leads to the conclusion that there will be yet another DSLR body ( the one that's suppose to be co-developed with Samsung ) to come this year, probaly this will be the one replacing all the DS/DS2/DL/DL2

I consider this great news. I purely Pentax developed model, maybe the last for a while, who knows!

I'm a bit saddened with this talk of electronics companies working on cameras. I'm not sure how this will turn out but I trust that Panasonic knows a lot more about camera processes than Samsung does since they've been working with Leica for a while.

I hope that Pentax and Olympus make the best of their deals with the devils.

gauchogolfer
Feb 27, 2006, 02:17 PM
Too picky, cause you're wrong. There are several "monolithic" sensors out, and all the digital medium formats use them... for instance ... this http://www.mamiya.com/cameras.asp?id=1&id2=2107

Thanks for the link, that's the first I've seen of them. I'm not exactly in the market for a camera like that, a bit out of my range. I stand corrected :D

Abstract
Feb 27, 2006, 05:29 PM
I kind of wish there were more 35mm sized sensor cameras, I do mainly landscape work so it's hard to get very wide-angles with that 1.5x crop factor. On the other hand it's great for telephoto work. my old 135mm becomes a 200mm :cool:


It's hard to get wide angles with a dSLR? I think it would be pretty much as easy even with the 1.5 "crop factor." Same goes for telephoto lenses, although theey're so much smaller. I think that's why companies like Nikon aren't making the plunge into 35mm equivalents quickly.

@gauchogolfer: Kodak makes a 39 MP sensor, or it's somewhere around 40MP. I forget. It's used in the Hasselblad I mentioned before. Mamiya is another popular one. And even if they glued a bunch of those Canon 16 MP sensors together, the pixel sizes would be too small for people to get what they want, I think. Not sure about that one, but less noise is one of the reasons to go medium format, so I'd assume that the pixels are larger in order to lower the noise. Nothing like 25 to 40 MP jammed into a small area to create lots of noise.

kwajo.com
Feb 27, 2006, 06:02 PM
It's hard to get wide angles with a dSLR? I think it would be pretty much as easy even with the 1.5 "crop factor."

I just meant that my old lenses don't quite have the same wide angles as they used to. Like if I have a 20mm it's now equivalent to a 30mm, still wide, but not as big a field of view

jared_kipe
Feb 28, 2006, 12:19 AM
It's hard to get wide angles with a dSLR? I think it would be pretty much as easy even with the 1.5 "crop factor." Same goes for telephoto lenses, although theey're so much smaller. I think that's why companies like Nikon aren't making the plunge into 35mm equivalents quickly.

@gauchogolfer: Kodak makes a 39 MP sensor, or it's somewhere around 40MP. I forget. It's used in the Hasselblad I mentioned before. Mamiya is another popular one. And even if they glued a bunch of those Canon 16 MP sensors together, the pixel sizes would be too small for people to get what they want, I think. Not sure about that one, but less noise is one of the reasons to go medium format, so I'd assume that the pixels are larger in order to lower the noise. Nothing like 25 to 40 MP jammed into a small area to create lots of noise.

I don't think anyone really wants (or is going to buy) a digital medium format camera that is on here. Medium and Large format cameras are mainly for studios to own for modeling and the like. Medium format technology isn't up to snuff in important things like metering and focus acuracy/speed to be useful for photojournalistic photographers. AKA everyone on this board. Plus if nothing else, 1.6x sensors have proven the center portions of lenses are REALLY good. This is even more important when you go to large format lenses, where you use even more of the lens for the image circle, and are generally not the up to the quality of good 35mm format lenses.

There have been some breakthroughs in CMOS and CCD technology recently that when worked through to the consumer hands will make the noise on cameras like the 20D look like the noise from iso 800 film.
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0512/05121201new_chips.asp
100 times the dynamic range
50 times less power drawn

EDIT: Reading the part about the "irregular" array so each peak is at a cosine peak.... WTF how are cosine peaks not regular. sines and cosines and what not are the very definition of periodic or regular.

bousozoku
Feb 28, 2006, 03:06 AM
I just meant that my old lenses don't quite have the same wide angles as they used to. Like if I have a 20mm it's now equivalent to a 30mm, still wide, but not as big a field of view

I know what you mean. I don't use old lenses since all of mine are made-for-digital lenses. Olympus only recently introduced an adapter for OM-series lenses.

Olympus makes a 7mm (14mm effective) fisheye and it's not bad but of course, it's expensive. My "normal" lens is 14-54mm and in the old days, I would have died for such a lens. It's usually wide enough.

Chip NoVaMac
May 1, 2006, 01:31 PM
Sorry for resurrecting an old thread, but this came up in a search on the Pentax/Tokina 10-17 lens. I was on travel at the time.

"Medium-format" usually refers to the negative size, yes? What would the advantage of a medium-format digital camera be? larger image sensor? Do they even make large, high-quality digital image sensors?

EDIT: I think I'm right about the image sensor being larger, since it says it's a large kodak 18.6mpx sensor. Please confirm, though

There was a test in American Photo IIRC that pitted a FF Canon against a larger sized MF sensor. There were differences in particular with shadow detail.

I don't think anyone really wants (or is going to buy) a digital medium format camera that is on here. Medium and Large format cameras are mainly for studios to own for modeling and the like. Medium format technology isn't up to snuff in important things like metering and focus acuracy/speed to be useful for photojournalistic photographers. AKA everyone on this board. Plus if nothing else, 1.6x sensors have proven the center portions of lenses are REALLY good. This is even more important when you go to large format lenses, where you use even more of the lens for the image circle, and are generally not the up to the quality of good 35mm format lenses.


True, but the larger the pixel count, the lower the magnification needed for a given print size. As sharp as some MF lenses are, they do not measure up to some of the better 35mm lenses in pure resolution tests. But then they don't need as much magnification either.

Olympus only recently introduced an adapter for OM-series lenses.

Just a note of clarification; Olympus has had that part available for some time. It was free to registered users for awhile. The change is that it is no longer free, and a part to be bought.

njmac
May 1, 2006, 02:57 PM
I have never heard of Pentax either. Looks like a camera worth checking out. Thanks for the info.

bousozoku
May 1, 2006, 03:06 PM
...
Just a note of clarification; Olympus has had that part available for some time. It was free to registered users for awhile. The change is that it is no longer free, and a part to be bought.

Not that it matters, I suppose, but they didn't even bother putting it on the U.S. website until a few months ago. It was on the Japanese and UK websites over a year ago. I guess I should just be thankful that the website works with something other than Internet Exploder now. :rolleyes: :p