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agentmouthwash
Mar 2, 2006, 11:04 AM
I've been in the market for a nikon DSLR for a while - I'm coming from a Nikon FM2 35mm camera - so I have the lenses already and I'm not going to switch brands. Here is my problem: I love buying things right when they are released. The D70s seems to be a little too much for me - both level wise and $$. I was thinking of buying a D50 (body only) since I have great lenses already, but I was wondering if anybody knew if Nikon was going to release an update soon? (aka D50s)

I'm in no real hurry to buy a new camera, but would like to buy one before my trip to Europe this summer. Any Nikon Rumor sites?



Clix Pix
Mar 2, 2006, 11:47 AM
Go to your local camera shop and you'll see the newest Nikon DSLRs: the D50 and the D200. The D200 was just announced back in November and finally began appearing in mid-December, but at the moment it is still in high demand and short supply. However, if you think that the D70s is "a bit too much" for you, then you probably would feel overwhelmed and challenged by the D200. I doubt that Nikon will be releasing anything else for a little while now, even a newer version of the D50. I'd check out the D50 and see if that will fit your needs.... I've heard a lot of favorable comments about this camera.

As for discussion forums about Nikon, go to http://www.nikoncafe.com or to http://www.dpreview.com.

ChrisA
Mar 2, 2006, 03:22 PM
I've been in the market for a nikon DSLR for a while - I'm coming from a Nikon FM2 35mm camera - so I have the lenses already and I'm not going to switch brands. Here is my problem: I love buying things right when they are released. The D70s seems to be a little too much for me - both level wise and $$. I was thinking of buying a D50 (body only) since I have great lenses already, but I was wondering if anybody knew if Nikon was going to release an update soon? (aka D50s)

I'm in no real hurry to buy a new camera, but would like to buy one before my trip to Europe this summer. Any Nikon Rumor sites?

I assume all your lenses are "AIS" and none are autofocus. If so then you REALLY want the D200.

The reason is that the light meters in the D70 and D50 are non-functional unless you have a AF lens (with the electronic contacts) The D50/D70 lacks the little AIS ring with the tab on it. When I say "non-funtional" I mean it. You will need to buy a hand held meter or remember the "sunny 16 rule" or keep the FM2 and us it as a light meter.

So you buy the D70 and the only functions that will work are manual exposure and manual focus. Yes, it is _very_ annoying. Nikon did this intentionally to promote sales of the more expensive camera.

You will likely want to buy some new AFD lenses or maybe even take the opertunity to go with Canon if you have been wanting to go that route. But I stil think Nikon is a better deal. I'd prefer the D200 over the new 30D

ChrisA
Mar 2, 2006, 03:28 PM
...you probably would feel overwhelmed and challenged by the D200.

Why? Is the D200 harder to use than a D50? I can't see why. Really what you get as a better build quality using metal and water resistent seals and faster autofocus and more AF sensors. None of thismakes it harder to use just 3X more expensive.

TD200 does allow him to re-use his investment in Nikon glass. re-using the lenses will more than pay for the higher price. One good lens like an 80-200 is $1700 which is more than the cost of a D200 body.

SpookTheHamster
Mar 2, 2006, 04:36 PM
So you buy the D70 and the only functions that will work are manual exposure and manual focus. Yes, it is _very_ annoying.

Am I the only person that doesn't care that I have to use my old lenses on full manual? My D70 never leaves manual mode, no matter what lens I use. It's not that much harder to take an extra picture before I start shooting or go out to get a baseline for exposures.

The D200 is not meant for people like him, it's like trying to sell him a PM G5 Quad when he wants an iMac.

ChrisA
Mar 2, 2006, 06:13 PM
Am I the only person that doesn't care that I have to use my old lenses on full manual? My D70 never leaves manual mode, no matter what lens I use. It's not that much harder to take an extra picture before I start shooting or go out to get a baseline for exposures..

You are one of the few. I would bet that _most_ (well over 51%) of the people buying a D50 do not understand the basic relationtship between ISO, Shutter Speed and Aperture. and even fewer could do the calculation in their head to get a manual flash set at one stop below ambient for shadow filing.

Nothing wrong with not knowing that stuff it's just that I'd bet most D50 buyers would want a functionin meter.

Clix Pix
Mar 2, 2006, 09:27 PM
Why? Is the D200 harder to use than a D50? I can't see why. Really what you get as a better build quality using metal and water resistent seals and faster autofocus and more AF sensors. None of thismakes it harder to use just 3X more expensive.

TD200 does allow him to re-use his investment in Nikon glass. re-using the lenses will more than pay for the higher price. One good lens like an 80-200 is $1700 which is more than the cost of a D200 body.

He's the one who commented that the D70s seemed "overwhelming," so I figured he might be daunted by the D200. The D50 has the "scene modes" things in it and it is designed to produce slightly oversaturated images right out of the camera in program mode, which is what many consumers who are coming from a P&S would want, at least as they begin to learn the camera and photography....

In actuality, no, the D200 isn't all that more difficult to use than any other DSLR for the person who knows F/stops and what "shutter priority" and "aperture priority" mean. Since the OP is coming from a camera where he presumably familiarized himself with SLR photographic techniques as opposed to using a P&S in the past, then I wouldn't be surprised if maybe he'd find that a DSLR isn't all that daunting after all. Yes, it's a little different with the menus and such, but once you start using a DSLR the basic principles remain the same.

You make a good point, Chris, one which I had totally overlooked, about the fact that, yes, his older lenses aren't going to work as well with the D50 or the D70, but that they will do just fine on the D200. This is an important consideration!

agentmouthwash
Mar 2, 2006, 09:30 PM
The D200 is not meant for people like him, it's like trying to sell him a PM G5 Quad when he wants an iMac.

Thanks for all the feedback guys, but just incase you forgot - I said I currently use the FM2. That is an all manual camera - which makes me a PM G5 user over an imac. I understand how to use a manual over an automatic. Some of my lens are AF and some aren't. I've just been putting off purchasing a DSLR and wanted some advice as to if and when Nikon was going to release new models soon.

Clix Pix
Mar 2, 2006, 09:39 PM
Thanks for all the feedback guys, but just incase you forgot - I said I currently use the FM2. That is an all manual camera - which makes me a PM G5 user over an imac. I understand how to use a manual over an automatic. Some of my lens are AF and some aren't. I've just been putting off purchasing a DSLR and wanted some advice as to if and when Nikon was going to release new models soon.

Then why did you say you felt the D70s was too much level-wise?

Moneywise, yes, I can understand why a D70s or definitely the D200 might be a little out of reach for the moment and why the D50 might appeal to you, but skill-wise, I really suspect that maybe you'd be able to do just fine with a D70s or a D200.

ChrisA
Mar 2, 2006, 10:19 PM
...wanted some advice as to if and when Nikon was going to release new models soon.

The rumors say "No." No new Nikon dSLR soon. The D200 is still the new one.

Chip NoVaMac
Mar 2, 2006, 11:38 PM
So you buy the D70 and the only functions that will work are manual exposure and manual focus. Yes, it is _very_ annoying. Nikon did this intentionally to promote sales of the more expensive camera.

Little cynical IMO. In some ways it is about making it easier for the consumer. Many are "entry level" buyers are not concerned about compatibility with "older tech". Those that are are willing to pay a higher price.

For many of us "in the know" welcomed the "low" price of the D200 for the compatibility of the legacy lenses.

This compatibility issue has been raised for many a year when Nikon dropped AI lens compatibility from from their 35mm SLR's. At least Nikon offers options for those that want to use "older" lenses.

Chip NoVaMac
Mar 2, 2006, 11:43 PM
You are one of the few. I would bet that _most_ (well over 51%) of the people buying a D50 do not understand the basic relationtship between ISO, Shutter Speed and Aperture. and even fewer could do the calculation in their head to get a manual flash set at one stop below ambient for shadow filing.

Nothing wrong with not knowing that stuff it's just that I'd bet most D50 buyers would want a functionin meter.

I think you missed the point of the post you responded to.

You seem to be supporting that post and opposing that post in the same breath.

Chip NoVaMac
Mar 2, 2006, 11:50 PM
The rumors say "No." No new Nikon dSLR soon. The D200 is still the new one.

ChrisA, as one that works in the photo resell industry; I will say there is a certain disappoint in the ranks that there was not a replacement to the D70. Like the D100 and the D70, they were too close in specs to sway the general buyer.

There needs to be more than grid lines, wireless iTTL flash, and "gee-wiz" features to compel the average consumer. IMO the D70/70s replacement needs to have core features like 8mp, 4fps, and an optional grip to make it worth to go from the D50 to the next gen.

revfife
Mar 3, 2006, 12:48 AM
The problem is that there really isn't a distinguishing feature that sets the d70s off sandwiched between the d50 and the d200. The d50 is a great camera, new design, nice lcd, does all you could ask for in a dslr and compares quite easily to the d70 for a steal of a price. If you are a pro-am then you wouldn't buy the d70s because it is all old tech when you could pay a little more and pick up the hot new d200 which is getting great reviews.

Nikon will replace the d70s, I just don't think its quite ready yet. I am assuming before december 2006 like the d200 release. Probably to be called the d80 or something.

Clix Pix
Mar 3, 2006, 01:31 AM
The problem is that there really isn't a distinguishing feature that sets the d70s off sandwiched between the d50 and the d200. The d50 is a great camera, new design, nice lcd, does all you could ask for in a dslr and compares quite easily to the d70 for a steal of a price. If you are a pro-am then you wouldn't buy the d70s because it is all old tech when you could pay a little more and pick up the hot new d200 which is getting great reviews.

Nikon will replace the d70s, I just don't think its quite ready yet. I am assuming before december 2006 like the d200 release. Probably to be called the d80 or something.

This makes perfect sense. A LOT of people who had the D70 or the D70s were lined up waiting for the D200 and were not disappointed, as it offers a lot of features that the D2x and other professional cameras do at significantly less cost.

When the D70 first came out, it was an instant winner and many people snapped it up as their first digital SLR. Nikon has seen that and has acted accordingly, providing something in addition for others moving from a P&S to a DSLR with the D50 and also nudging those with the D70/D70s into the next step up the ladder with the D200. Yes, probably at some point there will be a D80 or some such after the excitement over the D200 has calmed down a bit.....

Chip NoVaMac
Mar 3, 2006, 02:32 AM
This makes perfect sense. A LOT of people who had the D70 or the D70s were lined up waiting for the D200 and were not disappointed, as it offers a lot of features that the D2x and other professional cameras do at significantly less cost.

When the D70 first came out, it was an instant winner and many people snapped it up as their first digital SLR. Nikon has seen that and has acted accordingly, providing something in addition for others moving from a P&S to a DSLR with the D50 and also nudging those with the D70/D70s into the next step up the ladder with the D200. Yes, probably at some point there will be a D80 or some such after the excitement over the D200 has calmed down a bit.....

Sorry Clix (hesitant on using your real name here :) ), but the current closeness of the D50 and the D70s is much like Ikon introducing the the D70 verses the D100. They were too close, and the D100 suffered a long death and wait for the D200. The shop you know and love (:) ) was among the first shops to "discontinue" the D100 once the D70 came out. There were many shops that still had the D100's sitting on shelves.

At my shop I explain the differences between the D50 and D70s, and more times than not - the consumer votes for the D50. There needs to be a solid middle ground between the D50 and the D200, and IMHO there is not much that the average consumer can see.

Clix Pix
Mar 3, 2006, 12:54 PM
Sorry Clix (hesitant on using your real name here :) ), but the current closeness of the D50 and the D70s is much like Ikon introducing the the D70 verses the D100. They were too close, and the D100 suffered a long death and wait for the D200. The shop you know and love (:) ) was among the first shops to "discontinue" the D100 once the D70 came out. There were many shops that still had the D100's sitting on shelves.

At my shop I explain the differences between the D50 and D70s, and more times than not - the consumer votes for the D50. There needs to be a solid middle ground between the D50 and the D200, and IMHO there is not much that the average consumer can see.

That's OK, you can call me "Connie," I just am too lazy to bother signing off with it at the ends of posts. Yes, that is a problem now that there is such a closeness between the D70/D70s and the D50, and that camera dealers still have the D70s on the shelves along with the D50. You're right that most people coming to their first DSLR from a P&S aren't going to really understand the finer points of the differences and the similarities, and all too often they really won't until after they've had some experience using a DSLR. How are they supposed to know unless they've been an experienced shooter that they might prefer the D70s because it includes certain features that are missing on the D50, such as the grid, the DOF button, etc.? The D50 is definitely going to appeal to the person coming from a P&S who has never used a DSLR before, both in terms of its feature set (plenty of "scene modes") and its smaller size and lighter weight.

While I was aware of the D70 when it first came out, and the excitement surrounding it, I was still playing in Coolpix Land at that point and wasn't financially ready to go into a DSLR. Prior to the D70, of course, all the Nikon DSLRs were "pro" and pretty expensive for the average hobbyist. The D70 represented a great breakthrough in making a DSLR feasible for more than just the professional or the wealthy hobbyist. I came along much later in the game and it wasn't long after that when the D70s was released, followed in fairly quick time by the D50.

You're probably right that the D70/D70s will now suffer the same fate as the D100, but on the other hand, there are a lot more of them out there in the hands of happy photographers who either are still using that model as their only camera or who then went on to purchase the D200, keeping their D70/D70s as a backup camera body.

agentmouthwash
Mar 3, 2006, 02:29 PM
I think my original post was a little confusing.. but I think Connie (Clix Pics) hit the nail right on the head - the difference between the D50 & D70s seems too small to me.

Sure the D70s comes with a great lens when you buy the bundle, but I have great/fast AF Nikon lenses already. I was just wondering if the D50 was going to be upgraded soon - maybe acquire the "s" like the D70.

I am not a pro-photographer and don't intend to be one, but I do enjoy a good manual camera with good lenses. My FM2 with my F1.4 28mm lens was my favorite setup, but I am tired of 35mm film and want to go digital.

I have never used a DSLR before, but I've been using an SLR for years. Why the D70s over the D50? thanks.

Chip NoVaMac
Mar 3, 2006, 08:08 PM
I was just wondering if the D50 was going to be upgraded soon - maybe acquire the "s" like the D70.

Not likely till maybe next year, the D50 was introduced late last year.

Engineer
Mar 3, 2006, 10:38 PM
I think my original post was a little confusing.. but I think Connie (Clix Pics) hit the nail right on the head - the difference between the D50 & D70s seems too small to me.

Sure the D70s comes with a great lens when you buy the bundle, but I have great/fast AF Nikon lenses already. I was just wondering if the D50 was going to be upgraded soon - maybe acquire the "s" like the D70.

I am not a pro-photographer and don't intend to be one, but I do enjoy a good manual camera with good lenses. My FM2 with my F1.4 28mm lens was my favorite setup, but I am tired of 35mm film and want to go digital.

I have never used a DSLR before, but I've been using an SLR for years. Why the D70s over the D50? thanks.

I had a similar choice to make when I went DSLR a year ago. Lots of lenses and I wanted to use them with the DSLR.

In my case, the brand was Pentax, but the lesson isn't about the brand or the specific camera. Digital photography is very different than film. The contrast is different, the dynamic range is different, and the lens design is different.

What I found was that the camera was an important step, but that there was not a good way to make the perfect choice on the first try.

If you want to replicate your 28mm lens setup, you will have a hard time with digital. Your 28mm lens becomes a 42mm equivalent on the D70. That camera has a multiplier of 1.5 toward the telephoto. You need an 18mm lens to duplicate the width of angle that the 28mm gives on the FM2. The lens speed will have to be compensated using the ISO adjustment. Luckily, you can do that on a picture by picture basis on a DSLR.

My recommendation is to buy the D70 Kit including the wide angle lens, and plan on taking a lot of pictures to gain experience. In my case, I discovered that I have used my film lenses only a few times due to the telephoto effect.

So, dive in and enjoy.

agentmouthwash
Mar 4, 2006, 06:59 AM
If you want to replicate your 28mm lens setup, you will have a hard time with digital. Your 28mm lens becomes a 42mm equivalent on the D70. That camera has a multiplier of 1.5 toward the telephoto. You need an 18mm lens to duplicate the width of angle that the 28mm gives on the FM2. The lens speed will have to be compensated using the ISO adjustment. Luckily, you can do that on a picture by picture basis on a DSLR.


wow, I did not know that! That is something to consider. Thanks for your help! Maybe I'll just pick up the D70s body and play around with it. That camera seems to be getting rave reviews from everyone who owns it. Thanks everybody!

law guy
Mar 12, 2006, 10:25 AM
wow, I did not know that! That is something to consider. Thanks for your help! Maybe I'll just pick up the D70s body and play around with it. That camera seems to be getting rave reviews from everyone who owns it. Thanks everybody!


Let me know what you end up doing. I've had digital p&s for three years, but my SLR has been a Nikon film body (N80) for the last six years. I am struggling between the D50 and the D70s. The D70s would be physically closer to my N80 (front control wheel, bracketing button), but there is the price difference that is significant enough. I've spent quite some time reading all of the reviews (bythom.com, dpreview, dcresource, stevesdigicams, popular photog) and there's no clear better choice from what I can see. Pros and cons - D50 exposure a little "hot", but Fujifilm like saturation in color mode III, and great color at higher ISOs (says Thom) rather than the dulling that happens on other Nikon DSLRs, lower noise than D70s says dpreview, but it was pretty good on D70. On the other hand, SD, no DOF, no backlit LCD, can't finetune white balance -but Thom notes that defaults are such on the D50 that less fiddling is required in the first place for many situations. Argg.

I don't want to spend time on every frame altering the output with software (with film, I spent time finding films I liked and filters, but then I either composed good pictures with the subject, light and my parameters or didn't) - and so the question in my mind is the D50 going to be more efficient from that standpoint?

law guy
Mar 12, 2006, 05:59 PM
Well, here's an update from my last post of earlier today. After three months (which is much too long) of reading reviews / comparisons of the two (D70s or D50), I went with my N80 as a comparison to my local camera store and spent an hour with the two today and walked out with my NEW D50! I'm very excited. I've got my 28-105 on it at the moment.

In the end, for me the items lacking from the D50 weren't critical and I actually liked it size more (closer to my N80 but still a little bigger).

Clix Pix
Mar 12, 2006, 08:42 PM
Congratulations on your new D50! Enjoy it and we'll be looking for some great images from you...

joepunk
Mar 12, 2006, 10:08 PM
Congratulations on your new camera.

3 months is not that long as I will be going into 4-5 months deciding whether or not I should purchase a D-50 before my European trip after graduation.

SharksFan22
Mar 13, 2006, 12:31 AM
I too recently picked up a D50. I've had a number of P&S film and digital cameras and while I've been happy each subsequent P&S digital camera, I'm completely blown away by the D50. Of course, I have no idea what I'm doing yet :D but I am really thrilled by the picture quality. I had no idea that a DSLR would be so much better than a P&S.

I (like most poeple I think) looked at the Canon Rebel XT (?) but chose the D50 based on the way it felt in my hand and my understanding of Nikon's excellent lenses. Originally, I planned to buy the two lens kit, but after looking at it, the salesman persuaded me to buy the body only and then add a higher quality Nikon 18-70 AF-S DX lens. The lens just seemed so much better constructed than the ones included in the kits.

Anyway, I highly recommend the D70 -- now I just gotta go buy a book and learn how to use it!!!

agentmouthwash
Mar 13, 2006, 07:29 AM
Well, here's an update from my last post of earlier today. After three months (which is much too long) of reading reviews / comparisons of the two (D70s or D50), I went with my N80 as a comparison to my local camera store and spent an hour with the two today and walked out with my NEW D50! I'm very excited. I've got my 28-105 on it at the moment.

In the end, for me the items lacking from the D50 weren't critical and I actually liked it size more (closer to my N80 but still a little bigger).

Congrates on your purchase! I was leaning towards the D50 for the same reason. I haven't made a puchase yet though, but I did find this which compares the cameras: http://www.dpreview.com/news/0504/05042003nikond70s.asp#compared

MickG
Mar 14, 2006, 09:53 AM
The rumors say "No." No new Nikon dSLR soon. The D200 is still the new one.

The thing I'm curious about and looking forward to is when they actually upgrade the D70 to the 10 mega pixels that the D200 is sitting at. Are people expecting something like that in the Fall? Seems to me that the D200 is definitely a "lower" end Pro camera, while the D70 still appeals to amateur enthusiasts who just want to take great pics of their kids who never sit still long enough to catch with anything other than an SLR.

Similar to what we have to do through as we wait for the speed of DVD burners to increase to something reasonable (and now the dual layers have just knocked the clock back again...sigh...) I feel like we're stuck in a marketing game with the Mega Pixel issue as we approach the DTP requirements.

BTW, I'm new here on the forums, but I love MacRumors and have read it for years.

cheers,

Mick

agentmouthwash
Mar 14, 2006, 02:02 PM
The thing I'm curious about and looking forward to is when they actually upgrade the D70 to the 10 mega pixels that the D200 is sitting at. Are people expecting something like that in the Fall? Seems to me that the D200 is definitely a "lower" end Pro camera, while the D70 still appeals to amateur enthusiasts who just want to take great pics of their kids who never sit still long enough to catch with anything other than an SLR.

Similar to what we have to do through as we wait for the speed of DVD burners to increase to something reasonable (and now the dual layers have just knocked the clock back again...sigh...) I feel like we're stuck in a marketing game with the Mega Pixel issue as we approach the DTP requirements.

BTW, I'm new here on the forums, but I love MacRumors and have read it for years.

cheers,

Mick

Hi Mick, Welcome to the forums! I'm thinking the same as you are. I know the whole Mega Pixal issue is a marketing ploy, but their is something unsettling about spending a lot of $$ on a 6MP SLR when you can buy a consumer camera with up to 10.2MP. The Canon DSLRs all have at least 8MP. One would think that Nikon would at least try to match them - after all they are in the business to make money. How difficult would it be for them to just do a mega pixal upgrade? They would sell a lot more cameras.
PS. yes I know the Mega Pixal issue is a marketing ploy.

MickG
Mar 14, 2006, 03:05 PM
Hi Mick, Welcome to the forums! I'm thinking the same as you are. I know the whole Mega Pixal issue is a marketing ploy, but their is something unsettling about spending a lot of $$ on a 6MP SLR when you can buy a consumer camera with up to 10.2MP. The Canon DSLRs all have at least 8MP. One would think that Nikon would at least try to match them - after all they are in the business to make money. How difficult would it be for them to just do a mega pixal upgrade? They would sell a lot more cameras.
PS. yes I know the Mega Pixal issue is a marketing ploy.

As I understand it, Canon and Nikon have different ways of capturing images on the digital light sensor. Some have told me that Canon's algorithm needs more megapixels to get the same quality image as Nikon's. But their different approaches allow them to shoot the same exact shot differently. So there will be some situations where the Canon handles the shot better than the Nikon, and vice versa. Sorry to sound so vague, but this was passed along by another friend who was researching the D50 -vs- the Rebel and it's been a month or so since he and I talked about it.

I also believe (and I could be wrong) that Nikon's D200 has a different sensor that's much faster than the D70's. That doesn't water down the transparent game of megapixel chasing, but I don't believe that a D70 can simply be upgraded into a 10 mpxl camera. Instead, it seems that they worked with the D100 to make it happen.

I missed the more prefab shot settings on the D70 when I looked at the D200 briefly. It's not that I can't figure out how the more manual approach can work, but rather that I just don't have the time that a pro can to read all of the manuals, practice, and then shoot quickly without having to think about it. The preset modes are great in this regard. That's why I'd really like to see an upgraded D70 with a little more speed and at 4 more megapixels.

Although, I did just read at Dpreview.com that they really don't think we'll see much difference between 8 and 10, or 10 and 12 megapixels. I would sure hope to see something (at least with cropping) with a jump from 6-10!

cheers,

Mick

Clix Pix
Mar 14, 2006, 06:13 PM
I would be VERY surprised if Nikon upgrades the D70s....that camera is already awkwardly positioned, as has been mentioned on these forums before, between the D50 and the D200. Nikon is not going to up the amount of megapixels in it or do anything else; more than likely the D70s will soon experience an end-of-life rebate. It's a great camera, though, so snap one up if you find it at a good price and don't want either the D50 or D200 for whatever reason.

Many people who have been using the D70 and the D70s stampeded to pre-order the D200 the minute it was announced, and since that time it is still hard to find. Stores get them in and they're gone within a very short time. The D200 is, yes, more expensive than the D50 and the D70s because it offers some features available only on high-end professional cameras but not all of those features. It is the next logical step for many D70/D70s users, who have embraced it eagerly. I suspect that Nikon's thinking is that for those first moving up from a Coolpix or other brand of P&S that the D50 has what they'll need and want at a price point acceptable to that target audience. The D200 meets the needs of those who have already gone through the stages of learning their first DSLR and who are ready to move onward and upward. The D70s, fine camera that it is, unfortunately is now in the position of the awkward stepchild.

So don't get your hopes up that Nikon is going to announce a D70ss or a D80 with 10 MP; most likely not gonna happen!

Clix Pix
Mar 15, 2006, 10:40 AM
Here is a link to a recent interview of an unnamed Nikon representative:

http://www.dslrphoto.com/2006/03/02/interview-with-nikon-executives-about-dslr-future-plan/

Someone on the Nikon Cafe site provided this link and also a few excerpts from the interview:

Question: This time at PMA 2006, there was no announcement of new DSLR camera. For the next announcement, what’s Nikon plan for the future line-up and the in what class of camera?

Answer: “We tackled the entry level DSLR market starting from the D70, after that announced the D50. In order for us to extend our market position in the 4 million DSLR camera market, we think it is necessary for us to complete the entry level model.”

Question: It is the case that you included the technology which is obtained with the development of D2 in D200, but in the future, do you also plan to add “the essence” of such superior machine even in the entry machine?

Answer: “That depends on the situation. Do you think the general users will accept the functionality and efficiency of the D200? We do not believe so. Entry level camera requires ease of use, small size and light weight. These are quite different from the high level camera models. The development direction of the entry level camera should be different from that of the high end models.”

Question: There is a high number of users of the entry camera market. Will you consider giving them more than one cameras for selection?

Answer: “After analyzing the needs and diversity of the entry level market requirements, we think there is the needs to increase the cameras to provide a better fitted functionality to satify a wider customer base.”


This will provide some insights into what Nikon is planning/not planning....

agentmouthwash
Mar 15, 2006, 01:04 PM
Thanks for all that info. I'm really leaning towards the D50 based on price and photo quality seems good enough for me. Plus it's a little bit smaller then the D70s and fits in my hand better. Now do I buy the body only or a kit?
I have some older AF nikon lenses as well as some Manual Nikon lenses.

law guy
Mar 15, 2006, 01:34 PM
Congrates on your purchase! I was leaning towards the D50 for the same reason. I haven't made a puchase yet though, but I did find this which compares the cameras: http://www.dpreview.com/news/0504/05042003nikond70s.asp#compared

Thanks - It was an agonizing decision. (also in the mix at an earlier stage was whether to stick with Nikon since I needed to buy wider lenses anyway; so in the end, it was between the D70s and 20d at that point and then once I decided to stay Nikon - at this point, anyway - then it was between the D70s and the D50).

Take a look at the popular photography magazine website (www.popphoto.com). In their test, they found that the D50 met their "Excellent" resolution benchmark from ISO 200 to 1600. http://www.popphoto.com/article.asp?section_id=2&article_id=1505 At the time the D50 was reviewed the only other Nikon to show that performance had been the D2x. The D50 was reviewed prior to the 200, of course. I decided to get the D50 and a great lens - an 18 to 35 (non-DX, but that's just my own craziness because now I can use it with my film Nikon if I want to and if we see an affordable Nikon full sensor someday, I'm set). http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/1835.htm The lens cost almost as much as the camera because I bought it at my local non-chain camera store (as opposed to B&H) - in this case I could afford to support the local guy, which I like.

ChrisA
Mar 15, 2006, 02:00 PM
Thanks for all that info. I'm really leaning towards the D50 based on price and photo quality seems good enough for me. Plus it's a little bit smaller then the D70s and fits in my hand better. Now do I buy the body only or a kit?
I have some older AF nikon lenses as well as some Manual Nikon lenses.

I was in the exact same situation as you. Technically I had lenses that could work with the D50. But I decided I wanted a zoom that started at 18mm, May widest AF lens was a 24-50. I bought the body and the 18-70. I was a bit over budget s I compromised and got the "grey market" 18-70 from B&H for about $260. B&H warents the lens themselves andit trustworthy. So overall the D50 and 18-70 cost about $160 more than the D50 with ther 18-55 kit lens. the 18-70 is longe, faster, focuses faster (with "real AFS) and has better build quality then the 18-55

In my case only one of my AF lenes is an AFD. Most are just "AF, no "D" and I wanted my everyday, most used snapshot lens to be a "D" lens because it might help with getting better fill flash exposures.

I have found the old MF lenses work fine. You can't use the meter but take just one test shot and look at the histrogram display and adjust the exposure then you are set.

ChrisA
Mar 15, 2006, 02:16 PM
....One would think that Nikon would at least try to match them - after all they are in the business to make money.


That is the differance between Nikon and Canon. Nikon is a conservative company and will not offer some wiss-bang feature just for maketing purposes. Nikon moves slowly and make incremental changes. Canon on the other hand is always first to put the latest technology into thier cameras Which is best? Can't answer.

law guy
Mar 15, 2006, 08:11 PM
All right - a few early shots with the D50 18-35 combination. These are all in manual mode with the aperture at my lens' limit of 3.5, all were ambient light in the late afternoon today with ISO set to auto. I changed to the default color saturation to vivid. I used a combination of center weighted and matrix for various shots.

What I discovered in these early photographs - the manual mode is wonderful and easy to get around. I didn't really miss the second control wheel at all. I also loved color mode three PLUS the vivid setting - who likes the Fuji film feel, I do. The camera does amazingly well with limited existing light photography. My only downside issue is one that may drive me to the D70s yet - I spent a fair amount of time changing from center weighted to spot metering taking these. This was often a function of windows in a scene and the overall effect I was going for. To switch metering requires a trip to the menus. On the plus side, the menu always returns to where you left, so when I hit "menu" the next time, it was already on metering and I had only to go up or down with the selector and then to the right to lock in the new setting. It wasn't too bad, but the D70s has a direct access button right by the shutter button, so something for me to ponder as I continue to experiment.

As to why these are all of the inside of a house - shooting with the soft light to send my realtor some shots as we're selling the house (oh the upheaval!) and are going to list it soon.

LG

Clix Pix
Mar 15, 2006, 08:27 PM
Very attractive house! I'm sure you will have no problems in selling it!

Yeah, the D70/D70s and especially the D200 all have more functional buttons on the bodies, so no need to bumble around in the menu.... that is something which is important to me. Nonetheless the D50 is a very fine camera. I'm tickled that you mention upping the saturation even more, as one of the key things mentioned about the D50 is that it produces somwhat saturated images right out of the camera... so here you are, kicking that up even more! LOL!

Images look great, though....

law guy
Mar 15, 2006, 08:33 PM
Very attractive house! I'm sure you will have no problems in selling it!

Yeah, the D70/D70s and especially the D200 all have more functional buttons on the bodies, so no need to bumble around in the menu.... that is something which is important to me. Nonetheless the D50 is a very fine camera. I'm tickled that you mention upping the saturation even more, as one of the key things mentioned about the D50 is that it produces somwhat saturated images right out of the camera... so here you are, kicking that up even more! LOL!

Images look great, though....

Thanks CP. You have the D200 now, correct? Did you used to have the D70/70s? If so, how did you like it? Any gripes? What are the differences you see in the output between your D200 and 70/70s (assuming I've got your camera ownership history correct)? I think the direct function buttons may have me make a change while I'm still able to - although it's really only that one function that I've run up against the issue with so far. I am guilty of loving the saturated colors.

Clix Pix
Mar 15, 2006, 10:09 PM
Thanks CP. You have the D200 now, correct? Did you used to have the D70/70s? If so, how did you like it? Any gripes? What are the differences you see in the output between your D200 and 70/70s (assuming I've got your camera ownership history correct)? I think the direct function buttons may have me make a change while I'm still able to - although it's really only that one function that I've run up against the issue with so far. I am guilty of loving the saturated colors.

Yes, I've got the D200 and the D70 and D70s are sitting forlornly in the cabinet because I haven't picked either of them up since I got the D200.

I LOVE the D200. It is a fantastic camera and blows the D70 and D70s (which are also fine cameras) out of the water. Gripes with the D70 and D70s include the viewfinder. The D200 is much better in that regard, the viewfinder is really a useable tool. There are more functions readily available right on the camera body of the D200, which is really great; I haven't handled a D50 enough to know what is and what is not available on that camera body, but I do know that it has received excellent reviews, so Nikon has done something right. As far as the saturation issue: in most P&S cameras there is a specific level at which they present the images so that the consumer is immediately satisfied; same way with the D50. With the D70, D70s and D200, this is somewhat toned down and the camera user has the option to fiddle with settings in the camera itself or in post-processing in Photoshop or some other program.

I think the D50 does not have the depth-of-field preview button, but many photographers do not use that and so it may be an insignificant issue for you..... Some of the other buttons may be very handy and I know that I appreciate being able to quickly switch certain settings on the D200 without going into the menu.

Yeah, I do like having the two command wheels....

law guy
Mar 15, 2006, 10:40 PM
With the D70, D70s and D200, this is somewhat toned down and the camera user has the option to fiddle with settings in the camera itself or in post-processing in Photoshop or some other program.

I think the D50 does not have the depth-of-field preview button, but many photographers do not use that and so it may be an insignificant issue for you..... Some of the other buttons may be very handy and I know that I appreciate being able to quickly switch certain settings on the D200 without going into the menu.

Thanks CP. I recall noting that the D70 had a default of color mode I, but III was certainly there as an option, where as the D50 uses III as the default. Using the menu to change metering was not that difficult given how well the general input interface is set up. While I could opt for the D70s over the D50 price-wise, I can't justify the D200 at this point. I do love a lot of things about the D50, including it's size and low noise at high ISO settings. Despite missing a few direct access buttons, I am likely to hold onto it and perhaps move in a few years back to the world of DOF preview buttons and two command wheels - both items my old N80 have.... oh and an top display LCD light (Note to Nikon: taking away what has to be a few cent backlight was a lame move).

LG

agentmouthwash
Mar 16, 2006, 08:03 AM
hmm... the depth-of-field preview button on the D70s has me leaning towards getting the D70s over the D50. But it seems like the jump between the D70s and the D200 is much much larger then the D70s & D50.

law guy
Mar 16, 2006, 09:00 AM
The metering change down in the menus was one downside of having fewer direct access buttons on the D50. I've run into one more that only is an issue in full manual mode. Because there is only one command wheel, in manual mode the exposure compensation button acts as a "shift" button so that the command wheel adjusts aperture (without the button press, the wheel adjusts shutter speed). The downside of this may be obvious. If you want to adjust exposure compensation, you have to go back to A, P, or S mode for the exposure button to regain that function. This is of some significance on the D50 as thus far I find that it's a little hot - the highlight play back screen is really helpful in identifying all of the blown out areas. The good thing is that once you set the exposure compensation, it stays there. So this may only be a little extra work when taking a few test shots to get a sense of where the exposure comp should be set generally.

LG

agentmouthwash
Mar 16, 2006, 09:12 AM
The metering change down in the menus was one downside of having fewer direct access buttons on the D50. I've run into one more that only is an issue in full manual mode. Because there is only one command wheel, in manual mode the exposure compensation button acts as a "shift" button so that the command wheel adjusts aperture (without the button press, the wheel adjusts shutter speed). The downside of this may be obvious. If you want to adjust exposure compensation, you have to go back to A, P, or S mode for the exposure button to regain that function. This is of some significance on the D50 as thus far I find that it's a little hot - the highlight play back screen is really helpful in identifying all of the blown out areas. The good thing is that once you set the exposure compensation, it stays there. So this may only be a little extra work when taking a few test shots to get a sense of where the exposure comp should be set generally.

LG


Wow It's amazing how I am slowly convincing myself into getting a D70s. I have been using a Nikon FM2 manual camera for years. My main concern (besides price) was to get a DSLR that would be able to mimic the manual capabilities of the old SLRs. It seems like that extra dial on the D70s would do the trick.

law guy
Mar 16, 2006, 05:26 PM
Wow It's amazing how I am slowly convincing myself into getting a D70s. I have been using a Nikon FM2 manual camera for years. My main concern (besides price) was to get a DSLR that would be able to mimic the manual capabilities of the old SLRs. It seems like that extra dial on the D70s would do the trick.

Being in the D70s mindset - do you find yourself at all in a debate between the 20D and the D70s or is still Nikon only? That's probably throwing options gasoline on a burning fire of indecision ... bad law guy. Of course if you think 20D, then the 30D is just a little more, but then the D200 is just a little more still (the incremental ladder sets itself up nicely) - but at least at that point there is a price moat keeping us safe from the 5D, D2x, etc.

agentmouthwash
Mar 16, 2006, 09:40 PM
Being in the D70s mindset - do you find yourself at all in a debate between the 20D and the D70s or is still Nikon only? That's probably throwing options gasoline on a burning fire of indecision ... bad law guy. Of course if you think 20D, then the 30D is just a little more, but then the D200 is just a little more still (the incremental ladder sets itself up nicely) - but at least at that point there is a price moat keeping us safe from the 5D, D2x, etc.

I'm trying to keep it Nikon only - being that I already have several Nikon lenses. It's really between the D50 & D70s. The D200 would be most ideal, but a little too much money for me.

mcmadhatter
Mar 18, 2006, 04:52 AM
I know the whole Mega Pixal issue is a marketing ploy, but their is something unsettling about spending a lot of $$ on a 6MP SLR when you can buy a consumer camera with up to 10.2MP. The Canon DSLRs all have at least 8MP. One would think that Nikon would at least try to match them - after all they are in the business to make money. PS. yes I know the Mega Pixal issue is a marketing ploy.

It's true, you don't need to worry to much about megapixels, I have an old 3.2 Megapixel minolta point and shoot, it's built like a brick outhouse, still takes better pictures than my sisters tiny 5Mp thing, as it has better optics than her camera. So with a a 6MP nikon (or my nice EOS 350D) you should still be able to take better pictures, that will scale up to larger sizes than any 10MP consumer camera

I did some comparisons between my EOS 350D and a friends D70s, and to be honest there was very little in it (even though the canon had more MP) sometimes the Canon pictures were better, sometimes the Nikon ones were. Both are great cameras with a good lens behind them,so there is no need to just count the MP

jimN
Mar 26, 2006, 03:07 AM
Slightly off topic but I'd thought i'd pop this in here as there seem to be a lot of people familiar with these cameras posting in this thread. I'm getting ready to buy my first d-slr and was initially rather taken by the canon 350d but after handling it I've decided that the nikons are far nicer from a practical perspective. I'm largely sold on the d50 with the 18-70 lens but my partner currently uses a very old (1960s) canon and predominantly uses a 50mm prime with manual focus. I know that she's like to continue shooting in this way some of the time so i'm curious as to what it is like focusing manually with these two cameras and which lenses are best. From what I've read the ais lens has a nice feel to it and is well constructed but the lack of light metering makes setting exposure difficult (but not impossible), whilst the afd lens has a more plastic-y finish but offers the option of autofocus, has full metering and you can effectively check that the camera agrees with your focus.

Irrespective of the 1.5 multiplier that these cameras show i would probably go with a 1.8 50mm lens. I'd certainly value people's opinions on which lens system they feel to be more useful especially if you have experience of using either of these lenses on this camera.

Thanks

Clix Pix
Mar 26, 2006, 11:37 AM
I have the D200 and the D70/D70s, and have used a 50mm f/1.4 prime lens on them. I always have to remind myself that I need to focus manually -- one gets spoiled by autofocus! If you want to shoot in low light conditions, I'd spend the little extra money for the f/1.4 lens as opposed to the f/1.8.

jimN
Mar 26, 2006, 01:26 PM
Can you offer any advice re particular lens systems - ais vs afd?

Thanks

Clix Pix
Mar 26, 2006, 04:44 PM
Can you offer any advice re particular lens systems - ais vs afd?

Thanks

No, not really, but I'll send you to the place where there are lots of folks who can.... http://www.nikoncafe.com. There are some very knowledgeable people on those forums. Also, there are some on this very forum as well, and I'm sure that they'll respond sooner or later....

jimN
Mar 27, 2006, 04:48 AM
Thanks for that, i'll be sure to check them out