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View Full Version : Apple should have a Superdrive CRT iMac


lmalave
Jan 27, 2003, 11:52 PM
Well, Steve Jobs ate his words about the CRT being dead when he brought out the eMac, and now I think it's finally time to recant entirely and start pushing the humble little 15" CRT iMac again. Why? Because Apple can stand on the strength of OS X and iLife, and the classic iMacs still have tremendous recognition and consumer appeal, if it weren't for the feature/price mix currently offered (which almost seems halfhearted - as if to kill the CRT iMac just to prove the point that the CRT is dead). Here's what Apple REALLY needs to do:

For $599:
700 MHz G3
ATI Radeon 7500 16MB
CD-ROM
20 GB HD
128 MB RAM

For $799:
800 MHz G3
ATI Radeon 7500 32MB
Combo Drive
30 GB HD
256 MB RAM

For $999: (and here's the piece de resistance)
800 MHZ G3
ATI Radeon 7500 32 MB
SUPERDRIVE
30 GB HD
256 MB RAM

Can you imagine the ruckus the above product mix would cost? Of course, the Superdrive eMac would have to be lowered to $1299 and the superdrive FP iMac to $1499. The combination of Superdrive and iLife is just so appealing. I think a LOT of switchers would buy a $999 Superdrive CRT iMac - it would just prove Apple's point that it's not GHz that matter - it's what you can do with the computer. And I don't think cannibalization is so much of an issue since most CRT iMac buyers would be switchers that wouldn't have bought a Mac anyway because they didn't think they could afford it (or weren't willing to pay the price premium over a PC). And anyway, on the eMac you get a G4, 60GB HD, and a 17" CRT screen, and on the FP iMac you get a G4, 60GB HD, and of course an LCD screen and incomparable style, so I still think deeper- pocketed consumers would still go for those if they could afford them.

What do you all think?

mac15
Jan 28, 2003, 12:40 AM
you need a g4 to decode video for iDVD and general speed when doing DVD. So it would have to be a G4 :(

lmalave
Jan 28, 2003, 12:51 AM
Originally posted by mac15
you need a g4 to decode video for iDVD and general speed when doing DVD. So it would have to be a G4 :(

Is that a fact? Forgive my ignorance, but is it an absolute technical barrier that a G3 just is not capable of burning a DVD, or are you just saying it would be prohibitively slow? Keep in mind everything's relative. A lot of people would be willing to wait longer for their DVDs to burn if it'll save them significants amount of money.

strider42
Jan 28, 2003, 01:19 AM
Originally posted by lmalave


Is that a fact? Forgive my ignorance, but is it an absolute technical barrier that a G3 just is not capable of burning a DVD, or are you just saying it would be prohibitively slow? Keep in mind everything's relative. A lot of people would be willing to wait longer for their DVDs to burn if it'll save them significants amount of money.

when iDVD was first introduced, apple said it would take roughly 24 hours to encode a 1 hour video on a G3. A G4 could do it in two. G3's have gotten faster since then, but still, it would take the better part of a day to encode a simple video. Thats not very user friendly. People are willing to wait, but not all day.

Bear
Jan 28, 2003, 01:20 AM
Originally posted by lmalave

Is that a fact? Forgive my ignorance, but is it an absolute technical barrier that a G3 just is not capable of burning a DVD, or are you just saying it would be prohibitively slow? Keep in mind everything's relative. A lot of people would be willing to wait longer for their DVDs to burn if it'll save them significants amount of money.

It would be very slow. On an 800MHz G4, it took a half hour or so human time and about 4 hours for the Mac to prep the vdieo for burning to DVD. That is alrady a lot of time, I'd hate to think how much longer a G3 would take.

yamadataro
Jan 28, 2003, 07:05 AM
Yeah, I wouldn't recommned burning any video DVDs on G3. Even on the first generation iMac LCD, it took me a little less than an hour to burn one. Everytime I tried to burn a video DVD, I let it start burning and went out for a drink with my friend...

Now it's a little better with my G4 DP. But the DVD-R drive is still sooooo slooooow.

I can't imagine what happens when you try to burn one on G3. Maybe you should go for a vacation while your Mac works on a DVD? :D

As to the CRT Mac deal, all of my Macs has LCD screen (Cinemas and TiBooks). I haven't used any CRTs in a couple of years for my work. I mean, once you get used to LCD it's kinda difficult to go back to CRT. I hate that blurry image on CRT...

alex_ant
Jan 28, 2003, 07:30 AM
Superdrive or no superdrive, it would still be a good idea to upgrade the classic iMac and drop its price.

Gus
Jan 28, 2003, 12:30 PM
The eMac was meant to fill this void. A G4 All-in-one with a superdrive. Basically an iMac with a bigger screen, better processor and a Superdrive.

Regards,
Gus

lmalave
Jan 28, 2003, 02:10 PM
Originally posted by alex_ant
Superdrive or no superdrive, it would still be a good idea to upgrade the classic iMac and drop its price.

The stunning PowerMac and display announcements today give me hope!! Ok, so maybe we won't see a SuperDrive CRT iMac for the reasons cited above, but after today, does anyone doubt that the $599 and $799 CRT iMacs with the specs I suggested above are at least a possibility?

ChicagoMac
Jan 28, 2003, 02:55 PM
I would just like to simply add that Apple does have a superdrive crt. Call it the Imac if you want, the rest of us will refer to it as the emac. What sense does it make to have two models with two seperate names and the same specs? The emac is simply an upgraded form of the classic Imac. As somone else already said, the flat panel Imac takes long enough to burn a dvd. I can't imagine doing it on a G3. I can't wait to try out dvd burning on the new 4x burners on a new powermac!

jrv3034
Jan 28, 2003, 03:46 PM
Originally posted by lmalave
does anyone doubt that the $599 and $799 CRT iMacs with the specs I suggested above are at least a possibility?

I think you're right, and that would be absolutely awesome. What better way to increase market share than by introducing a Mac (albeit a pretty low-end iMac) at a price point that rivals Dell's entry level desktops! These are people who just want a machine to email and surf the web. Their next machine will probably be another Mac, once they discover OS X. Everybody wins.:D

lmalave
Jan 28, 2003, 04:06 PM
Originally posted by jrv3034


I think you're right, and that would be absolutely awesome. What better way to increase market share than by introducing a Mac (albeit a pretty low-end iMac) at a price point that rivals Dell's entry level desktops! These are people who just want a machine to email and surf the web. Their next machine will probably be another Mac, once they discover OS X. Everybody wins.:D

Yeah, man. And the thing is, these iMacs would be as fast as my iBook, which is PLENTY fast! Like I've said before on other threads, a 700 MHz or 800 MHz G3 (with ATI Radeon 7500 for Quartz Extreme acceleration) is all the computer the VAST majority of computer buyers would need. And I don't even consider the screen that small, considering I use a 15" all day at work (albeit an LCD which has larger display area), and then come home to my 12" laptop. I can think of a LOT of people that would buy this computer, like everyone in my extended family that is my parents' generation (and all their friends). I mean, c'mon, I know young whippersnappers can build their own machines for $400 bucks or less, but most folks don't ever, ever want to see the inside of a machine.

lmalave
Jan 28, 2003, 04:14 PM
Originally posted by ChicagoMac
I would just like to simply add that Apple does have a superdrive crt. Call it the Imac if you want, the rest of us will refer to it as the emac. What sense does it make to have two models with two seperate names and the same specs? The emac is simply an upgraded form of the classic Imac. As somone else already said, the flat panel Imac takes long enough to burn a dvd. I can't imagine doing it on a G3. I can't wait to try out dvd burning on the new 4x burners on a new powermac!

Right, but while the eMac is a great deal at $1500 (especially when bundled with iLife), it isn't a mind-blowing deal. I mean, DVD burners are starting to become a standard $200 upgrade option for PC makers like Dell now, so I'm just saying I would like to see Apple bring the price down even lower, because I think there's a hunger in the marketplace for a machine with DVD burner and easy to use apps like iLife. Hopefully they'll at least reduce the price on the SuperDrive eMac to $1399, although lowering to $1299 would be really sweet.

MacFan25
Jan 28, 2003, 05:55 PM
Upgrading the CRT iMac and lowering the price seems like a good idea, but the only thing is, is that maybe Apple is afraid that if they do that, they won't sell very many eMacs.

medea
Jan 28, 2003, 05:59 PM
why update the classic iMac when we have the eMac? doesnt make sense really all the eMac is is a g4 classic iMac anyways.

jrv3034
Jan 28, 2003, 06:34 PM
Originally posted by medea
why update the classic iMac when we have the eMac? doesnt make sense really all the eMac is is a g4 classic iMac anyways.

Because it would probably be cheaper. I mean, if Apple wants to lower the base price of an eMac to $699, by all means, go right ahead!;) But I seriously doubt they would ever do this.

The eMac has a place in between the classic iMac and the new iMac. It is overqualified as a low-end computer. The low-end should be a 700Mhz Classic iMac at $599, CD-Rom, 128MB RAM, 40GB HDD, Radeon 7500.

Do this, Apple, and watch your market share increase dramatically.

jefhatfield
Jan 28, 2003, 08:49 PM
just a few years ago the low end was a cd-rom and the high end was dvd

now it will be combo drive on low end of the consumer line and superdrive on high end of the consumer line...including ibook and crt imac

all pro macs will have superdrive as a standard piece of gear

i hope superdrive being on all lines of macs will happen this year sometime

Spock
Jan 28, 2003, 09:21 PM
The CRT iMac is dead, we have the eMac now. I think that Apple needs to give the iMac G4 more options like if I want a 17" without the Superdrive and a 20gb HardDisk instead of 60gb I should be able to choose.

lmalave
Jan 28, 2003, 09:29 PM
Originally posted by medea
why update the classic iMac when we have the eMac? doesnt make sense really all the eMac is is a g4 classic iMac anyways.

Keep in mind Apple's prices keep going to all-time lows. $999 iBook. $1499 PowerMac. $1800 PowerBook. I think it's time for an all-time low on the iMac. The eMac's $1099 is just way too high - that's a mid-range price, not a low-end price. A $599 iMac would really hit the sweet spot at the low end, though even a drop to $699 would be welcome.

What really convinced me that the G3 iMac is still viable is my own experience with my iBook. With the new G3 Sahara chips and an ATI Radeon 7500, these things are snappy! And if Apple can build a tiny $999 laptop, it can build a desktop for $699 or less, considering the much cheaper display, cheaper hard drive, cheaper RAM, and generally easier manufacturing process (which Apple has had 5 years to perfect with the same iMac design).

G3 Rules!!!

iJon
Jan 28, 2003, 10:25 PM
the imac crt is dead, lets face it. there is no point keeping it around, its too slow. i mean playing on os x on the emacs is still pretty slow in normal everyday things. now the imacs are great if you are running os 9, zippy as hell. but other than that it will suffer. i do believe if apple is gonna keep selling it they should drop the price some, they could easily drop the price and still make some money.

iJon

Mr. MacPhisto
Jan 28, 2003, 11:26 PM
Well, my 700 G3 iBook is pretty zippy in OS X 10.2.3 with only 256MB RAM. I see no reason why a CRT iMac with a 700 or 800 MHZ G3 could not be the same. If these things are priced at $499 or thereabouts, maybe $599 with a combodrive, then I see no reason why people who just want internet, light gaming, etc would want it. It's be an all-in-one, reliable machine. Your average Joe wouldn't have to figure out where to put cables - and they could still actually do basic film editing and such.

I'd probably then price the eMac at $999 with a G4, 17 inch, and combodrive, although it'd be great if it could get down to $899. You could get an 800MHZ G3 with 15 incher and cd-rom for $499 - suitable for most of your basic needs with 256MB and a 30GB HDD. $599 if you want it with a combodrive. For $899 you get an eMac 800MHZ G4 with combo, 256 MB, and 40 GB HDD. For $1099 you can get an 800 G4 eMac with Superdrive. $1399 for an eMac 1 GHZ with Superdrive. The iMac can start with a G4 800 for $999 with the 15 incher and combo, only $100 more than the eMac - 2 inches less screen though. $1499 for a 17 incher, 1 GHZ and Superdrive. And maybe, just maybe $1799 for a 1.25 GHZ G4 and Superdrive.

Probably a pipedream, but that pricing structure would be killer.

jefhatfield
Jan 29, 2003, 11:44 AM
Originally posted by Mr. MacPhisto
You could get an 800MHZ G3 with 15 incher and cd-rom for $499 - suitable for most of your basic needs with 256MB and a 30GB HDD. $599 if you want it with a combodrive

and get that out by the end of the year or sooner followed by an ugrade of the $499 model to combo drive and an upgrade of the $599 model to superdrive

the pc world is ahead of us, especially when it comes to inexpensive computers...at $799, it is such a shameful low end price when e-machines have an offering of $499 with monitor or you could get a better hp-compaq tower for $449 w/o monitor

Kid Red
Jan 29, 2003, 12:02 PM
A G3 does not run X very well, nor iMovie, nor buring a DVD, nor.....

All Apple needs to do is lower the price of an eMac with a superdrive. I wouldn't be surprised if Apple lowers the eMac price when the iMacs are updated with lower prices as well.

The iMac CRT is dead. The eMac is the only CRT option left so that's your only hope.

Megaquad
Jan 29, 2003, 01:21 PM
Apple needs to make eMac a little bit less ugly, fix screen issues, speed it up etc.
oh and.. discontinue g3 imac!

jefhatfield
Jan 29, 2003, 01:30 PM
Originally posted by Kid Red
A G3 does not run X very well, nor iMovie, nor buring a DVD, nor.....

All Apple needs to do is lower the price of an eMac with a superdrive. I wouldn't be surprised if Apple lowers the eMac price when the iMacs are updated with lower prices as well.

The iMac CRT is dead. The eMac is the only CRT option left so that's your only hope.

as time progresses, so does the technology and an 800 mhz g3 with 512k level 2 cache will do ok for low end uses on a crt imac, which would do well at under five hundred dollars

for my uses of office based stuff and light home user graphics and a little dabbling with photoshop and illustrator, the crt imac, if upped in stats will do just fine

i do realize the g3 in its current stage is only the equivalent of a mid range pentium 3, but many pc users are doing just fine with their sub 1 ghz pentium 3s and don't feel a great need to upgrade

emac will even be better running osx faster and adobe stuff way faster if optimized for altivec, of course and under nine hundred would be cool down the line

of course, most of us want something sleek like a laptop with a g4 or some desktop using an lcd display, but we all don't NEED that for our homes;)

lmalave
Jan 29, 2003, 08:31 PM
Originally posted by jefhatfield

i do realize the g3 in its current stage is only the equivalent of a mid range pentium 3, but many pc users are doing just fine with their sub 1 ghz pentium 3s and don't feel a great need to upgrade


Not only that, but PC makers still put plenty of PIIIs in new computers. Specifically, all the ultralight notebooks that I was looking at from Dell, Sony, and Fujitsu used PIIIs. And freakin' Dell SERVERS use PIIIs. That's right, Dell's 1U servers user PIIIs for lower heat dissipation in rack-dense situations. Look it up yourself, folks. There's nothing wrong with a G3. For most consumers and business users it's all they need.

G3 Rules!!!! :D

<edit>
whoa, dudes, I just became a 6502!! :D :D :D
</edit>

Mr. MacPhisto
Jan 29, 2003, 08:51 PM
And the G3's small pipeline does make it quite peppy for some things. I know my G3 with 256MB and 700 MHZ will outpace many of the PIIIs and Celerons that are still out there. There are some P4s that are cheaper, but the quality of those machines is questionable. If Apple could get the G4 up to at least 1.25 Gig in all it's higher end stuff, then I'd think they might put out the 1 GHZ + G3, which would give quite good performance for a lowend chip.

vniow
Jan 29, 2003, 08:58 PM
Originally posted by lmalave
<edit>
whoa, dudes, I just became a 6502!! :D :D :D
</edit>


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