Windows XP Booting on Mac Contest Over

[demallien]

It does make you wonder if it took this amount of time for somebody to do this, why the heck is it taking MS so long to come up with VPC? I mean, does anybody see the irony in this? A company that spends literally $B is being usurped by a few people competing in a contest. Not taking anything away from MS, I'm just amazed at the work that has gone into this and the solution that is provided.


Oufff, in all fairness to Microsoft, a virtual machine like VPC is orders of magnitude more difficult to implement, than an extension to EFI that effectively implements CSM...

Actually, speaking about virtualisation, I noticed that Q is now available as a universal binary, and apparently works fine for Win2000. Still not stable for XP, but that should be coming along shortly.

I haven't been able to discover if they've implemented the acceleration option available for QEMU when it's an Intel processor emulating an Intel processor. Anyone know if this has been done?

[godrifle]

Dual boot instructions are up: http://www.onmac.net/

[danny_w]

Also, while we're de-bunking myths---the Windows BSOD was a Win98 thing. Under XP, it's more like OSX--individual program crashes/freezes are isolated to the program, which can be stopped separately using the task manager. I don't recall ever seeing a BSOD in the several years I had an XP computer.
Yes, indeed, Win2k and WinXP do still have the BSOD, but most people don't ever see it because the default setting in both 2k and XP is to automatically reboot, so the BSOD just flashes by and most people don't see it. This behavior can be changed (I don't remember how right now), and if you do it will freeze at the BSOD just like Win98 did. My laptop at work has developed a bad hdd and has been rebooting (and blue screening) fairly frequently the past few days (they have a new one on order).

[Steve1496]

Dual boot instructions are up: http://www.onmac.net/



Great news! Hopefully Blanka and myself can get the iMac 20 going today so more people can enjoy this.

[IJ Reilly]

Didnt you swear this was a fake a thread or two ago?:rolleyes:

Yes, I thought the pictures looked faked, but I also said I'd freely admit I was wrong if it turned out to be real. Which I have. What else do you want?

BTW, nobody has disagreed with me on the drivers issue.

[Macnoviz]

I remember somewhere in the XP manuals it says you MUST put the XP sticker (the one with all the license information) somewhere on the computer that you are installing XP to. Now seriously, who would do this? :D

Can you put it on the bottom?
Or inside?

[jabooth]

Wowsa! Just checked the instructions and it seems quite easy!

Just involves changing the XP CD by adding a few files, formatting your iMac and installing as normal! They managed to do the install by simply changing the XP CD - what a simple, beautiful, solution.

I was expecting lots of dodgy manual EFI hacking! :D

Well done boys.

[admanimal]

They will be supporting it because they support machines that run Windows XP. Programs base their support around an operating system.

They support machines that -officially- run Windows XP. But I have a feeling that if you were to mention that you are running it on an Apple machine, they would cut you off. I'm certain this would be the case if you tried to get support from Microsoft.

[Lord Blackadder]

Well, all I can say is that I'm glad I was wrong when I called this out. This will actually be good for Apple IMHO.

[plokoonpma]

Thats good news for all but I still have some doubts about it, mainly cause its not clear if all hardware works natively.

Its bad news for Apple ?
I think its not. "IF" it doesnt break or corrupt any security or operational behavior of OS X. That could give switchers the final stab to jump on Apple hardware.
The guy who made this job could have a big oportunity here:
He could contact Apple and share with them his work to check if it doesnt affect the OS and work a way to deliver it as an OS X product, no matter its free or not. That way we will have a certified OS X product.
With Apple support I'm sure he can earn good money or lunch its own product now he have some money to start it up.

Either way kudos to him and I hope he dont waste his hardworked money.

Buy Apple stocks at least !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:D

[IJ Reilly]

Wowsa! Just checked the instructions and it seems quite easy!

Just involves changing the XP CD by adding a few files, formatting your iMac and installing as normal! They managed to do the install by simply changing the XP CD - what a simple, beautiful, solution.

I was expecting lots of dodgy manual EFI hacking! :D

Well done boys.

Problem is, the procedure might well be a violation of the Windows EULA, so Microsoft might have the last word on the legality of this method. Not that it matters -- I think better methods are coming along, including the BAMBIOS project, which would add complete BIOS support to an EFI system. Then, all you'd need is a standard XP install disk.

[nylon]

Here is a mirror link since those sights are getting hammered due to Digg effect etc. Please do not repost this link on any other sights.

XP on Mac Solution Download (http://individual.utoronto.ca/kkapoor/winxponmac_0.1.zip)

Also those people who get it to work. Please post your experiences and screenshots if possible.

[Max on Macs]

Just to clarify - Windows XP does indeed still have a BSOD. It may have had a facelift since the one in 98, and it may not occur as often, AND it may reboot your computer immediately when it shows up, but that doesn't mean it's gone.

Also someone said that Windows XP doesn't crash but that software problems are isolated completely. This isn't strictly true. While it's a big leap forward from Windows 98, the system still does freeze up at times.

Furthermore, if an application freezes, I think we all love the fact that we can do Command + Alt + Esc, select the program and close it instantly. That in theory should work in Windows XP with Control + Alt + Delete but if you do this under Windows XP you will often have an issue where it won't exit the application for some time, by which time you've repeatedly tried again and the whole system has frozen and gone mad.

So yeah, for those of you who haven't used windows since the days of 98, don't expect it to be anything like as stable as MacOS. One of the things that has amazd me since I switched is the stability of this thing!

[Max on Macs]

Problem is, the procedure might well be a violation of the Windows EULA, so Microsoft might have the last word on the legality of this method. Not that it matters -- I think better methods are coming along, including the BAMBIOS project, which would add complete BIOS support to an EFI system. Then, all you'd need is a standard XP install disk.
I don't think this does breach the EULA. So long as there are no altered files - only new ones - then it should be fine.

[Todd H]

Can't wait until they come up with the 20" iMac solution. Then I can finally get rid of my PC (which I only use for gaming). :)

[zwilliams07]

Uploaded it to RapidShare which has a nice fat 45Gb pipe for downloading purposes. Enjoy. (>800KB)

http://rapidshare.de/files/15656629/Winxponmac_0.1.zip.html

[skeep5]

I'm actually looking forward to this. As a web designer i have to check designs on the PC browsers as well, and i'd rather just have it all in one package, without using Virtual PC (sucks). Cool.

[Gordy]

Problem is, the procedure might well be a violation of the Windows EULA, so Microsoft might have the last word on the legality of this method. Not that it matters -- I think better methods are coming along, including the BAMBIOS project, which would add complete BIOS support to an EFI system. Then, all you'd need is a standard XP install disk.

Microsofts EULA is unenforceable so as longs as you have a valid license this shouldn't be illegal :)

[steelfist]

it actually is making microsoft and apple more powerful at the same time, but i think it will benefit apple even more. there might be a 50% increase in mac sales, and even when microsoft benefits, it's increase is miniscule, not to mention all the hacks, cracks, and p2p of windows xp going around. :rolleyes:

the thing i worry most is the strength of Mac OSX development because of this news. hope it's developed even stronger than before! :)

[admanimal]

it actually is making microsoft and apple more powerful at the same time, but i think it will benefit apple even more. there might be a 50% increase in mac sales, and even when microsoft benefits, it's increase is miniscule, not to mention all the hacks, cracks, and p2p of windows xp going around. :rolleyes:

the thing i worry most is the strength of Mac OSX development because of this news. hope it's developed even stronger than before! :)

This hack is going to have a negligible effect on Mac sales and software development. The majority of users are not going to be able/willing to install some unsupported hack they download off the internet, regardless of how easy it is. Maybe when Microsoft or someone releases an officially supported solution, things will change.

[clykins90]

I don't have an SP2 cd, i only have the SP1. Can i slipstream an SP2 CD then use the new Slipstreamed cd to do the installation?

[ImAlex]

Hello! This is great. But won't you be able to run XP Home Edition aswell?
When I read what the requirements are there was PC, they mean your Mac right? :)

This is exciting, might try it later. But I don't got XP Pro.

Nice :cool:

[iSee]

Yes, I thought the pictures looked faked, but I also said I'd freely admit I was wrong if it turned out to be real. Which I have. What else do you want?

BTW, nobody has disagreed with me on the drivers issue.

Well, at least you showed up :D
A few other doubters aren't here to eat their crowburgers. :rolleyes:

[~Shard~]

I downloaded it for fun, but would never use it (not that I have an Intel iMac to try it on in the first place! :)). Until it is supported and "safe", i.e. not a "rough hack" as it is IMO, it would be going nowhere near my precious iMac (again, if I had one!) ;) :cool:

[Sky Blue]

When I read what the requirements are there was PC, they mean your Mac right? :)


Nice :cool:


nope, running Windows

[DTphonehome]

I would LOVE to see some real-world performance tests. Photoshop, games, etc. Would be nice to directly compare OS X performance to WinXP on identical hardware.

[bigandy]

i need an intel mac to try this on. it would be mightily useful.

anyone wanna give me one? :rolleyes:

[IJ Reilly]

I don't think this does breach the EULA. So long as there are no altered files - only new ones - then it should be fine.

The install disk has to be copied and altered. Does Microsoft allow Windows install disks to be duplicated?

[unigolyn]

When I read what the requirements are there was PC, they mean your Mac right? :)

No, they mean a Windows PC with Nero Burning ROM installed.

This is exciting, might try it later. But I don't got XP Pro.

Won't probably work with Home. They specifically say you need an XP Pro SP2 disc, so my XP Pro SP1 disc won't work either.

[IJ Reilly]

Well, at least you showed up :D
A few other doubters aren't here to eat their crowburgers. :rolleyes:

I did more than just show up. ;)

[skagen5555]

i havent read through the entire thread, but for people who are worried that developers will not make any more os x programs... i propose 2 things:

1. Installing windows on a mac is unsupported by apple, and therefore, developers probably will not say "boot up windows" because it's still underground and all. Companies don't ever say "if you dont have this software... download this crack to make it work."

2. When OS X came out, developers didnt fail to port stuff to OS X instead of just saying "oh boot up os 9 and run it there.

Don't worry, developers will still port stuff to OS X.

[unigolyn]

Hey, who else thinks Dvorak's next column will be a gloatfest about how his 'Apple switching to Windows' theory is "proved true" by this development?

[IJ Reilly]

Microsofts EULA is unenforceable so as longs as you have a valid license this shouldn't be illegal :)

If Microsoft decides to pay attention to this technique, and determines that it violates the EULA, then I think it won't become a common method of installing Windows on Mac hardware because most people won't want to risk tangling with Microsoft. They can be very aggressive when it comes to enforcing their intellectual property rights.

I think better, cleaner methods of installing Windows on Mac hardware are coming along that won't require messing with the install disk, so the point might be moot in the long run.

[iGuy]

Just to clarify - Windows XP does indeed still have a BSOD.

One of the things that has amazd me since I switched is the stability of this thing!

It should be noted, that while OS X is both far more stable and user friendly than Windows XP, OS X can also crash on occasion.

After updating to 10.4.5, running MS VPC 7.02 with Virtual Switch Networking, my G5 (Quad 2.5 with 8GB of RAM connected to a 30 inch Apple Cinema Dispaly through an nVidia FX4500) continually locked up.

If you've never seen it the screen whites over one line at a time starting at the top and displays a messages stating that you have to reboot using the power button.

Certainly much more aesthetically pleasing than MS's BSOD but equally as damaging.

The only solution was to change to Shared Networking in VPC. I'm hoping MS will issue a fix but I'm not holding my breath.

~iGuy

[nylon]

This hack is going to have a negligible effect on Mac sales and software development. The majority of users are not going to be able/willing to install some unsupported hack they download off the internet, regardless of how easy it is. Maybe when Microsoft or someone releases an officially supported solution, things will change.

When this gains critical mass, Apple will provide their own simple solution. I can guarantee that. Apple will simply state that they do not support Windows.

Their could also be a marketing angle to this. Picture add "Why buy a PC when you can run OSX/Windows on a Mac". Cha-Ching!!!

[johnadurcan]

Someone needs to create an installer. I propose an app that runs within Mac OS X that does the following:

Prompts to insert WinXP SP2 Pro CD
when inserted, copies disc to temp local folder
Makes the necessary additions to that folder (OEM files and modified NTDetect.exe etc...)
Prompts user to insert blank CD & burns bootable slipstream Win XP CD
leaves CD in the tray
Runs a partition manager program that splits the HDD partition to your requirements
installs the EFI file and blesses it
reboots the machine - Hay presto! Automatic installer for Boot Loader - no nero, windows or degree required.

[Twenty1]

Am I the only one thinking that the MacBU at Microsoft should be paying a lot of attention to this? If I'm working on the Intel Virtual PC development team, I've just learned of a great way to install MS Windows on a Mac. I now just need to develop some sort of user friendly installation and I'm almost done.

(Yeah, I know Virtual PC and this dual boot system are different, but they still accomplish the same basic thing - running Windows on a Mac.)

[flir67]

welp I know what I'm doing after work. got the sp2 disc also

sweet.... those are some of simpliest instructions yet. those slipstreamed cd's are so easy to make.

now everyone will be scouring the net for the best sp2 old school slipstream program.LOL...

wonder what will happen to apples market share
someone creates the program to let xp boot on mac
wonder if everyone will order a mac now and say screw the pc.

13,000.00 and change to the winner but a 10% or more market gaiin for apple??? instantly what a deal...


what do you think

[Chupa Chupa]

Hey, who else thinks Dvorak's next column will be a gloatfest about how his 'Apple switching to Windows' theory is "proved true" by this development?

How would this prove that Apple's true intention is to dump the Mac OS and become a PC hardware maker? Apple has said from the begining that it might be possible to boot Windows on a Mac and that they wouldn't do anything to prevent it.

But this experiment was not funding or aided by Apple. Dvorak's theory is that Apple wants to go Windows, not that users want dual boot. This only maintains the status quo as far as Apple's position on Windows goes.

[admanimal]

When this gains critical mass, Apple will provide their own simple solution. I can guarantee that. Apple will simply state that they do not support Windows.

Their could also be a marketing angle to this. Picture add "Why buy a PC when you can run OSX/Windows on a Mac". Cha-Ching!!!

I agree that it could be a selling point when there is an officially supported method of installing Windows on the Mac. But Apple is definitely not going to support or endorse an internet hack.

Personally I am looking forward to having a VirtualPC-like solution where i can just start up Windows when I need it and not have to deal with dual-booting, which gets annoying after a while.

[flir67]

How would this prove that Apple's true intention is to dump the Mac OS and become a PC hardware maker? Apple has said from the begining that it might be possible to boot Windows on a Mac and that they wouldn't do anything to prevent it.

But this experiment was not funding or aided by Apple. Dvorak's theory is that Apple wants to go Windows, not that users want dual boot. This only maintains the status quo as far as Apple's position on Windows goes.


osx is 100 times better, no way no how.. os x is king , ms is on the way out if they don't get vista out fast enough.

[Frobozz]

This is an important first step in the process. I think the end-game is the ability to not have to dual boot. I want to just double-click and run Windows apps at native or nearly native speeds with full hardware and graphics support.

[unigolyn]

How would this prove that Apple's true intention is to dump the Mac OS and become a PC hardware maker? Apple has said from the begining that it might be possible to boot Windows on a Mac and that they wouldn't do anything to prevent it.

But this experiment was not funding or aided by Apple. Dvorak's theory is that Apple wants to go Windows, not that users want dual boot. This only maintains the status quo as far as Apple's position on Windows goes.

Should've included sarcasm tags. Calling Dvoraks fevered ravings a 'theory' is giving them astronomically excessive credit. I mean, if you look at the "evidence" that he based his column on, he could easily extrapolate that blanka and narf were simply the victims of Apple's ingenious plan to cut development costs by outsourcing it to Mac geeks and hackers, full-blown Windows adoption being 'just around the corner now'.

[DTphonehome]

This is an important first step in the process. I think the end-game is the ability to not have to dual boot. I want to just double-click and run Windows apps at native or nearly native speeds with full hardware and graphics support.

I want a pony.

[varmatheone]

Its not that everyone with an Intel Mac is going to dump OSX and use windows.

It would be one less excuse not to buy a Mac (a big one though ).
- not being able to run Games/ other software not available on Mac.

More ppl will be exposed to OSX, who otherwise may not want to buy a Mac since it wont run Windows.

Its a win-win situation for Apple in any angle.

[unigolyn]

I want a pony.

Put up a PayPal donation box - seemed to work for dual booting, selling pixels, and getting fake boobs.

Edit:Seriously, register www.iwantapony.com, put up a 72p text stating that you want a pony, and include a tip jar. I'll take 10% of what you make for the idea.

Edit 2: Damn, someone already thought of it. No tip jar though.

[Abulia]

Oooh, the Intel PMs can't come out fast enough! :D

[exodar]

My question is has anyone REVERSED the process? Meaning removing this dual boot setup and installing just Mac OS X back on again.

Also...is there ANYTHING going on here that if done improperly could render your mac unuseable? This whole taking over of the boot process kind of worries me a little. My first impression is that if you did do anything wrong you could just pop your Mac OS X install disc and start over again. However, with this being experimental I worry about "bricking" my mac.

exodar

[jdechko]

It's pretty cool that someone finally got it to work. And I'm really glad that the bootloader works as it does (ie: behind the scenes and it looks nice). Hopefully, though, there's a timeout option that if the user doesn't select Xp within 5-10 seconds it automatically boots OS X.

This kinda makes me wonder whether or not MS will release a "Mac" version of windows with the slipstreaming already completed for the windows part. If they could re-sell a couple of thousand copies of XP do you think they would, or do you think they'll incorporate this into Vista.

[ImAlex]

No, they mean a Windows PC with Nero Burning ROM installed.



Won't probably work with Home. They specifically say you need an XP Pro SP2 disc, so my XP Pro SP1 disc won't work either.

Okey thanks. And thx Sky Blue for your answer.

So any PC with Nero Burning ROM (which is free)?

Will there be an easy installer? So you just put ur CD into the drive and install it? I didn't thought you needed a PC for this. Sounds good anyway. Anyone tried this yet?

[Peace]

My question is has anyone REVERSED the process? Meaning removing this dual boot setup and installing just Mac OS X back on again.

Also...is there ANYTHING going on here that if done improperly could render your mac unuseable? This whole taking over of the boot process kind of worries me a little. My first impression is that if you did do anything wrong you could just pop your Mac OS X install disc and start over again. However, with this being experimental I worry about "bricking" my mac.

exodar

This is exactly why people wanting to do this should wait for the brave of heart to confirm it doesn't harm the EFI when trying to reinstall OS X..

[DTphonehome]

Put up a PayPal donation box - seemed to work for dual booting, selling pixels, and getting fake boobs.

Edit:Seriously, register www.iwantapony.com, put up a 72p text stating that you want a pony, and include a tip jar. I'll take 10% of what you make for the idea.

Edit 2: Damn, someone already thought of it. No tip jar though.

LOL....anything that can be thought of already has been. On the internet, anyway :)
Besides, a pony would probably be more trouble than it's worth in a Manhattan apartment. Although it would be the coolest transportation method in town!

[unigolyn]

My question is has anyone REVERSED the process? Meaning removing this dual boot setup and installing just Mac OS X back on again.

Also...is there ANYTHING going on here that if done improperly could render your mac unuseable? This whole taking over of the boot process kind of worries me a little. My first impression is that if you did do anything wrong you could just pop your Mac OS X install disc and start over again. However, with this being experimental I worry about "bricking" my mac.

I don't see why you just couldn't boot off the OS X disc again and reformat. It's still just a hard drive.

[thechris69]

so if u have a intel mac with windows xp on it, can you run pc games on it smoothly?

[ImAlex]

so if u have a intel mac with windows xp on it, can you run pc games on it smoothly?

Probably. It is meant to work as a PC with Windows.

[FoxyKaye]

It's gonna need some video drivers to make it perform.
Without reading the entire 11 previous pages, I agree with this. And, the entire installation is essentially an unsupported hack, so I'm not sure of the implications for OS stability with either OS X or WinXP.

Is this also going to be something the everyday consumer will benefit from? Installing open source code and finessing an Intel iMac into a dual-boot configuration doesn't exactly strike me as something the everyday user can do. I'm certain this will come natural to geeks and gamers, but given the types of questions I witnessed from folks at the local "Genius Bar" the other day, it still seems leagues above the everyday user's knowledge, comfort and experience.

I suppose it's a Good Thing, though... I know a few years down the line when I buy an Intel Mac, it something I'll do - though mostly for the fun of it.

I wonder if this could eventually lead to some sort of "fast OS switching" - that would be pretty keen.

[balamw]

The install disk has to be copied and altered. Does Microsoft allow Windows install disks to be duplicated?
They designed the 2K and XP install disks with the ability to slipstream service packs and patches and OEM drivers. They only way to implement this in practice is to copy the disk. Definitely OEMs have this right, and need. Since many windows users build their own machines and are in effect their own OEMs (system integrators), they should also have this capability.

IMHO (although IANAL) this falls into the same general category as BartPE (http://www.nu2.nu/pebuilder/), a wonderful Windows live CD creation tool. It modifies an XP install disk to create a live CD. ASs I recall they use mkisofs instead of Nero to build that, which might help free this of the requirement for a machine already running XP.

So any PC with Nero Burning ROM (which is free)?

Will there be an easy installer? So you just put ur CD into the drive and install it? I didn't thought you needed a PC for this. Sounds good anyway. Anyone tried this yet?
Nit pick. Nero's not free, though there is a free trial which can be used for this purpose.

Check out BartPE (linked above), for something similar that has been packaged quite well.

B

[varmatheone]

so if u have a intel mac with windows xp on it, can you run pc games on it smoothly?

Not yet. They have not yet gotten graphics drivers to work.

[Abulia]

My question is has anyone REVERSED the process? Meaning removing this dual boot setup and installing just Mac OS X back on again.

Also...is there ANYTHING going on here that if done improperly could render your mac unuseable? This whole taking over of the boot process kind of worries me a little. My first impression is that if you did do anything wrong you could just pop your Mac OS X install disc and start over again. However, with this being experimental I worry about "bricking" my mac.The install requires you to load into the OS X disk utility and create two partitions, formatting your drive. Thus, to reverse the process, one would assume you could do the reverse. This is becuase once you install OS X, you replace the EFI bootloader (xom.efi) with their own and "bless" it. This is the magic of the dual boot, apparently.

So, based on reading the instructions, reversing wouldn't be a big deal. (Unless you consider reinstalling OS X a big deal.)

[balamw]

Not yet. They have not yet gotten graphics drivers to work.
Surely this wouldn't affect games like Minesweeper and FreeCell. ;)

OK these probably already work on Darwine, but for lots of Windows users these are games they miss on a Mac.

B

[macrants]

I just don't have time to format my HD to make room for it. How do I back up my data to make sure that it's safe before formatting? Does Carbon Copy Cloner work under Rosetta?

[exodar]

The install requires you to load into the OS X disk utility and create two partitions, formatting your drive. Thus, to reverse the process, one would assume you could do the reverse. This is becuase once you install OS X, you replace the EFI bootloader (xom.efi) with their own and "bless" it. This is the magic of the dual boot, apparently.

So, based on reading the instructions, reversing wouldn't be a big deal. (Unless you consider reinstalling OS X a big deal.)

This is my thought too, but I will wait and see if someone can prove that it is indeed this simple. Plus I can't find a reason to run a crappy OS on my Mac other than to possibly play Battlefield 2 :)

There is a good question...has anyone tried a PC game like Battlefield 2 to see what happens? Lots of PC games (Mac games included) do some funky direct-hardware calls to video cards and such for performance reasons. Be interesting to see how well something like that runs.

And I am scared to ask if World of Warcraft runs better on XP on a Mac than on Mac OS X on a Mac...

[DTphonehome]

Surely this wouldn't affect games like Minesweeper and FreeCell. ;)

B

I would like to see framerates on Minesweeper and Freecell before I attempt this.

[SPUY767]

could be a problem for the Mac OS. Who would develop for OSX if users can just use Windows on the same machine?


I understand that only a small minority of computer users will actually do this but it's still a concern for Apple.

No it's not. People will still demand software for the mac because the mac is a more secure running environment. The reason OS/2 failed, is because it would run windows software natively. That being said, an awesome piece of virtualization software would be more of a threat to the macintosh than a dual booting system.

[Abulia]

There is a good question...has anyone tried a PC game like Battlefield 2 to see what happens? Lots of PC games (Mac games included) do some funky direct-hardware calls to video cards and such for performance reasons. Be interesting to see how well something like that runs.This won't work because, to my knowledge, only VGA mode is supported; they're still trying to work out the video driver problem.

I was able to briefly get onto osx86project forums this morning and it looks like nearly all the driver issues have been worked out except video. It'll just be a matter of time, I suspect.

Until video drivers are running, no DirectX. (Compared to dual booting, hacking a video driver ought to be considerably easier to do.)

[Meemoo]

Not yet. They have not yet gotten graphics drivers to work.
Have they tried ATI.com and tried downloading the X1600 drivers? :rolleyes:

[ImAlex]

They designed the 2K and XP install disks with the ability to slipstream service packs and patches and OEM drivers. They only way to implement this in practice is to copy the disk. Definitely OEMs have this right, and need. Since many windows users build their own machines and are in effect their own OEMs (system integrators), they should also have this capability.

IMHO (although IANAL) this falls into the same general category as BartPE (http://www.nu2.nu/pebuilder/), a wonderful Windows live CD creation tool. It modifies an XP install disk to create a live CD. ASs I recall they use mkisofs instead of Nero to build that, which might help free this of the requirement for a machine already running XP.


Nit pick. Nero's not free, though there is a free trial which can be used for this purpose.

Check out BartPE (linked above), for something similar that has been packaged quite well.

B

Ok.

Please people if you have installed XP Pro on your computer please show us! And please tell us how you did. :)

[Abulia]

Have they tried ATI.com and tried downloading the X1600 drivers? :rolleyes:Yup, no joy.

I suspect it'll be a good starting point, though.

[FoxyKaye]

Have they tried ATI.com and tried downloading the X1600 drivers? :rolleyes:
As far as I know, the GFX cards included with the Intel Macs are "Mac Edition." Meaning that the standard Windows drivers won't work even in a Windows environment without flashing the GFX card's ROM.

[five04]

This is great. I've been a long time mac user, but miss the gaming available to the windows world; now I can have both. Instead of partitioning, I wonder if you could format an external hard drive and install only windows on it then boot via firewire. Does anyone know?

[exodar]

Have they tried ATI.com and tried downloading the X1600 drivers? :rolleyes:

EXACTLY!! I mean the ATI X1600 is used in PC Laptops by various manufacturers and there ARE Windows XP Drivers for it. How is it any different at this point? Plus...looking at videos of this XP Installation, it appears to be running at full resolution and even taking advantage of the widescreen display on the iMac. Seems to me Windows XP is handling the video card just fine.

What am I missing here?

[AlbinoPigeon]

I just hope this is not officially supported by Apple...otherwise, NO developer will care about porting anything to OS X...and why? Because you WILL have the choice of buying a crappy copy of XP for 100 bucks and running everything PC-friendly on it...

I don't see any reason for celebration, apart from gamers that feel like playing the latest Star Wars blablabla on their white Macs...

A sad day for the Mac community indeed.


Personally I don't understand this kind of logic. So let's suppose then that companies like Adobe, Quark, EA, Intuit, Corel...etc all decide that because of some sort of hack (even one that may be easily implemented) they will cease development because Mac users will still be able to run the Windows versions. Do you really think that Mac owners that have gone through the trouble of installing a hacked bootloader will then go out and PURCHACE these windows-only software titles? Do you even think they'll purchace a legit copy of Windows in the first place?!

I can only speak for myself...but I suspect that I represent a whole wack of people...but I wouldn't pay for software that doesn't run native on my machine. I bought Office V.x, I bought the newest iLife, I bought Creative Suite, i'm not some sort of rampaging pirate.

But if I cannot obtain a piece of software written for the mac, why would I purchace a windows version and run it on a hacked set-up? I'm sorry, but if you choose to stop developing for OSX, well I choose to stop buying your software.

What this hack is going to do is simple: allow individuals who need to run a piece of software not available for OSX to do so. This includes the few specialized apps that haven't made their way to OSX (decent GPS Street Mapping software, i'm talking to you!) and games.

This isn't going to kill OSX development. It IS going to increase piracy. And maybe all that extra piracy will finally convince these few companies to develop for Mac. 'Cuz if they dont, me and people like me, are going to keep running copies of their software on hacked setups until we can find native solutions.

[berkleeboy210]

Can someone copy & paste the instructions or is that illegal? doesn't look like I'll be able to get to the site for while

[MacPPC]

The solution available for download right now talks about iMacs, normally I would asume that the same steps apply to any intel Apple hardware, but are these the same steps for a MacBook Pro?

[Shaddow825]

Can someone copy & paste the instructions or is that illegal? doesn't look like I'll be able to get to the site for while

It is not just instructions, there are files in a zip you need.

[exodar]

As far as I know, the GFX cards included with the Intel Macs are "Mac Edition." Meaning that the standard Windows drivers won't work even in a Windows environment without flashing the GFX card's ROM.

Ahhh....if that is indeed the case then that makes sense. However, as stated in my previous post, it appears that Windows on these Macs IS running at full resolution and that the video card was detected.

[Abulia]

This is great. I've been a long time mac user, but miss the gaming available to the windows world; now I can have both. Instead of partitioning, I wonder if you could format an external hard drive and install only windows on it then boot via firewire. Does anyone know?Not sure, but this would be the logical next step for those that don't want to risk multiple partitions.

[Peace]

As far as I know, the GFX cards included with the Intel Macs are "Mac Edition." Meaning that the standard Windows drivers won't work even in a Windows environment without flashing the GFX card's ROM.


BINGO!

[ChrisA]

Who here has actually owned and used a dual boot machine? Raise your hands please.

Hand up: I have. Here is my summary of it: "What a pain in the ass!"

Yes really. You'd think it would be great at first because you can run programs that require either OS but now instead of simply clicking on an icon or task bar to launch a program you need to do a full re-boot, do whatever you need to do and then do another full -reboot to get back. Your email or browser bookmarks will "always" be on the non-active OS After 20 or 30 re-boots you are realy, really sick of rebotting and you will be very motivated to do one of these things:

1) thrash one of the OSes
2) Find a way to run one OS inside a virual machine inside the other OS
3) Buy a second computer.

Does anyone remember running Window 3.0? You need to hit the re-set button everyhour or so all day long and wait while it re-booted. Dual boot is kind of like running Windows 3.0 You will get to know the boot screen very well.

[milo]

Totally agree.. I can imagine that there are even people who'd say to themselves "Ok, I'll run a pirated copy of Software X for Windows until they release the Mac version.. no way I'm going to pay twice".

That makes total sense. I wouldn't be surprised if there ends up being an attitude in the mac community of buy the mac version, pirate the windows version.

Can't say I'd feel that bad about that.

Still not legal, though.

You might also find that Activation will help keep you honest - the copy of Windows will ask to be activated, and Microsoft will know that you're stealing from them.

Assuming you buy a new copy of XP to install on your mac, what's not legal? Activation should work just fine, just use the number that came with the new copy on the mac.

Will this know open up our macs to the windows world of viruses?? Why is nobody scared of this.

Because worst case it opens up your windows boot to the potential of viruses. If your XP gets infected, it still won't infect OSX. And XP is on a separate partition, it can't even see files on your OSX partition, can it?


However, Apple comes today and tells us all: "We love Windows, officially support it and assert that you can install it on Macs without any hurdles".

Now think for a moment: Why on Earth would Autodesk, with such news in hands, even BOTHER about porting an extensive piece of code to XCode/Mac-specific requirements, if all you happy PC-loving campers can buy its Winblows version for the same price and run it natively on a white Mac?

First off, Apple has never said the above statement. They likely never will, and will probably just make vague statements about it not being recommended. Second, wanting to run XP doesn't make someone a "happy PC-loving camper", don't go off on a straw man argument.

To answer your second question, they would do it because it would result in sales of the OSX version. If they ship an OSX version, anyone running a mac with an XP boot partition would buy the OSX version instead of the PC version (unless they screw over mac users with price, features, release dates etc). Why wouldn't someone in that situation do exactly that?

Also, if another company creates a viable OSX competitor while autodesk tells customers to create an XP partition, autodesk will lose sales to that competitor. Mac users want this option, but it's only a last resort, a necessary evil.

I would LOVE to see some real-world performance tests. Photoshop, games, etc. Would be nice to directly compare OS X performance to WinXP on identical hardware.

You don't need benchmarks for those. Photoshop will get its butt kicked in OSX since it's not universal. Games will get their butt kicked in XP since there are no video drivers yet. Benchmarks already exist for most apps under XP since there are plenty of shipping PC's with the same chipset as the intel macs.

so if u have a intel mac with windows xp on it, can you run pc games on it smoothly?

Read the thread. NO. No video drivers yet.


Anyone (Steve?) know if XP can be installed on a USB or FW disk? Or so far is it only on the internal hard drive? Is that something that may happen in the near future?

[YoNeX]

The reason why you don't see the BSOD in XP as much or at all is because Microsoft by DEFAULT turned it off. Instead, all it does is just restart your computer instead. If you want to see if you ever get a BSOD (for whatever reason :p )

My Computer > Properties > Advanced > Startup Recovery > Settings > System Failure. Now just uncheck Automatically Restart. Now you might see the BSOD. There is a trick if you do some registry editing and press a bunch of keys, you can BSOD on command :D. Google for that if your interested.

Also, yes Mac OS X does get kernal panics too. It does come out of no where sometimes on me too, but when comparing between the frequency of XP's BSOD vs OS X's Kernel Panic, I say their about equal. Rarely do i get a BSOD or kernel panic, unless I'm really tweeking around with the system.

[FoxyKaye]

Ahhh....if that is indeed the case then that makes sense. However, as stated in my previous post, it appears that Windows on these Macs IS running at full resolution and that the video card was detected.
Windows carries some limited support for standard display types - otherwise, if you were to install it on a system with a fancy GFX card, you'd never get a picture to work with while you're installing. My guess is that it has some native support for a generic widescreen LCD display - however, the features and ability for the GFX card to function properly are most likely still disabled. What this means is that you *could* install a graphics-heavy game, but the card in the Mac may not properly handle DirectX calls, rendering and other card-specific functions.

[Arcus]

Dual boot? Meh...

I want to be able to run it within OS X. With the new Intel Macs I'm assuming the next version of Virtual PC will run at native speeds.

That's what I want. :)

But regardless, kudos to these folks. :)

Im in the same boat. Im anxiously awaiting this as well.

[exodar]

Windows carries some limited support for standard display types - otherwise, if you were to install it on a system with a fancy GFX card, you'd never get a picture to work with while you're installing. My guess is that it has some native support for a generic widescreen LCD display - however, the features and ability for the GFX card to function properly are most likely still disabled. What this means is that you *could* install a graphics-heavy game, but the card in the Mac may not properly handle DirectX calls, rendering and other card-specific functions.

Okay...I think we are getting to the CRUX of the problem as to why I left Windows in the first damn place. All of these drivers and different hardware....god....it makes my butt hurt! I think I will just stick to Mac OS X on my hardware that I KNOW it works with. Good luck to everyone else :)

[FoxyKaye]

Okay...I think we are getting to the CRUX of the problem as to why I left Windows in the first damn place. All of these drivers and different hardware....god....it makes my butt hurt! I think I will just stick to Mac OS X on my hardware that I KNOW it works with. Good luck to everyone else :)
Hee hee - that and the not so infrequent complete system crashes because what M$ claims is "protected" memory really isn't.:p

I'm with you - if I run Windows on any future Intel iMac I'm using, it will only be to see how it's done and to have a little fun with it. Thereafter, it's a complete HDD re-partition, erase and re-install of trusty OS X.

However, as a supported option, I hope the next version of Virtual PC can take full advantage of the Intel chipset and mobo. It would be nice to have VPC become more of a background process like Rosetta, but not have OS X run Windows apps completely native (as we all learned with OS/2 was a bad, bad, idea).

[nostaws]

files are also included in the download. You have to make your own "custom" Windows install CD using 99% of the normal windows CD and then add the downloadable files to your custom CD.

From the site:
Servers are getting hit with too much traffic - please go to irc.freenode.net - channel #winxponmac

[fixyourthinking]

Funny, it took almost as long to get OS X on beige boxen as it did to get Windows on Apple boxen.



Uhh, if the end user is savvy enough to know what 'dual boot' means I think they could handle it.

We've been doing for some time with dual booting 9.2.2 and OS X on older G3's and G4's

[ethernet76]

Who here has actually owned and used a dual boot machine? Raise your hands please.

Hand up: I have. Here is my summary of it: "What a pain in the ass!"

Yes really. You'd think it would be great at first because you can run programs that require either OS but now instead of simply clicking on an icon or task bar to launch a program you need to do a full re-boot, do whatever you need to do and then do another full -reboot to get back. Your email or browser bookmarks will "always" be on the non-active OS After 20 or 30 re-boots you are realy, really sick of rebotting and you will be very motivated to do one of these things:

1) thrash one of the OSes
2) Find a way to run one OS inside a virual machine inside the other OS
3) Buy a second computer.

Does anyone remember running Window 3.0? You need to hit the re-set button everyhour or so all day long and wait while it re-booted. Dual boot is kind of like running Windows 3.0 You will get to know the boot screen very well.

I have. Dual-boot OS 9 and OS 10.2. Quark Xpress 4 required a dongle that wasn't recognized in OS 9 in Classic mode.

Also Redhat/XP. Neither was a problem. This just seems like a more elegant solution than the XP boot loader.

My only remaining question is whether you would still be able to enter into safe mode for windows. Also, DirectX support might be an issue.

[xStep]

Because worst case it opens up your windows boot to the potential of viruses. If your XP gets infected, it still won't infect OSX. And XP is on a separate partition, it can't even see files on your OSX partition, can it?

That simply isn't the case. I can think of two scenarios.

1.) The Wintel malware decides to be super aggresive and reformats your partitions. Just for kicks. Good bye OS X!

2.) You have the drivers installed on the XP partition to read the OS X partition. In that case the OS X partition looks like any other Windows partition and your files get currupted, deleted or information stolen, etc.

A product such as Virtual PC might be better because you can have it only see the file that represents the disc drive. It would NOT have access to the low level disc partitions.

[atari1356]

That makes total sense. I wouldn't be surprised if there ends up being an attitude in the mac community of buy the mac version, pirate the windows version.

Can't say I'd feel that bad about that.

Except in some cases with games... if Unreal Tournament 2006 (or whatever) is available for either PC or Mac, but runs faster on Intel Macs running Windows than it does running under OS X, then some people will choose to buy the PC version instead of the Mac version.

That's bad for Mac game developers.

[codepoet80]

Actually, it's not possible for Intel Macs to be running "Mac Edition" video cards. The "Mac Edition" referred to a change in Endianess, due to differences between x86 and PowerPC. Since Intel Macs use Intel chips, and therefore Intel's take on Endianess, a Mac Edition video card would not work.
It should be possible to just write or reverse-engineer and re-implement an existing Windows driver for a similar video chipset.

This definately is not a major hurdle -- at least not compared to the incredible work narf has already accomplished.

[slffl]

So is this going to be like installing OSX on PCs? As in, everythings going to run like crap because there's no drivers? Or are the drivers there and we can now play games at full speed?

[milo]

That simply isn't the case. I can think of two scenarios.

1.) The Wintel malware decides to be super aggresive and reformats your partitions. Just for kicks. Good bye OS X!

2.) You have the drivers installed on the XP partition to read the OS X partition. In that case the OS X partition looks like any other Windows partition and your files get currupted, deleted or information stolen, etc.


Do we know that you can reformat the whole drive (including partitions XP can't see) with this particular install?

The second one is an option, you don't have to if you don't want to. It's the equivalent of making more or fewer external folders visible to VPC.


if Unreal Tournament 2006 (or whatever) is available for either PC or Mac, but runs faster on Intel Macs running Windows than it does running under OS X, then some people will choose to buy the PC version instead of the Mac version.

Then I guess the mac game developers better get off their ass and start optimizing code. If they're shipping inferior product, shouldn't that hurt their sales?

So is this going to be like installing OSX on PCs? As in, everythings going to run like crap because there's no drivers? Or are the drivers there and we can now play games at full speed?

Easy there, cowboy. This has only been working for ONE DAY. It's a bit early to give up on drivers already.

[Steve1496]

My question is has anyone REVERSED the process? Meaning removing this dual boot setup and installing just Mac OS X back on again.

Also...is there ANYTHING going on here that if done improperly could render your mac unuseable? This whole taking over of the boot process kind of worries me a little. My first impression is that if you did do anything wrong you could just pop your Mac OS X install disc and start over again. However, with this being experimental I worry about "bricking" my mac.

exodar

sudo bless --folder /System/Library/CoreServices --file boot.efi --setBoot

[atari1356]

Actually, it's not possible for Intel Macs to be running "Mac Edition" video cards. The "Mac Edition" referred to a change in Endianess, due to differences between x86 and PowerPC. Since Intel Macs use Intel chips, and therefore Intel's take on Endianess, a Mac Edition video card would not work.
It should be possible to just write or reverse-engineer and re-implement an existing Windows driver for a similar video chipset.

This definately is not a major hurdle -- at least not compared to the incredible work narf has already accomplished.

Score:5, Insightful :D

[Steve1496]

The solution available for download right now talks about iMacs, normally I would asume that the same steps apply to any intel Apple hardware, but are these the same steps for a MacBook Pro?


Yes.

[calculus]

I predict a lot of knackered macs!

[balamw]

Windows carries some limited support for standard display types.
...
What this means is that you *could* install a graphics-heavy game, but the card in the Mac may not properly handle DirectX calls, rendering and other card-specific functions.
You're right about this, and that the mac video cards use different firmware (I think it's optimized for OpenGL calls instead of DirectX).

Basically though, the system as it stands right now shouldn't perform any worse than a PC with old style integrated graphics.

Which brings me to a strange though. We know from various comments that the ATI cards in the MBP and the iMac are not (yet) supported by ATI's drivers, but what about the Mini's 940MP? Is its acceleration supported? Would be kinda funny if (under Windows) the Mini's would outperform the iMac and MBP.

B

[Kingsly]

Any word on virtualization? I really want PC games but I would rather not wipe my HDD the day after I migrated everything over/be stuck in windows until reboot.

[DTphonehome]

Couldn't this work on a Mac Mini to install Win XP Media Center edition? It's certainly a better DVR solution!

[atari1356]

Then I guess the mac game developers better get off their ass and start optimizing code. If they're shipping inferior product, shouldn't that hurt their sales?

Well, it's also dependent on the speed of Open GL drivers... which, from what I understand are still generally slower than Microsoft's DirectX drivers. The game developers don't really have control over that.

[Sharkus]

Ok,
I've downloaded the files and read the instructions. Seems pretty straighforward.

I'm not going to install just yet, as I have a few questions, which no doubt others will have, and will be answered in all due course, once the forums are back up and running.

For anyone interested, my questions are:

1) You need to use Nero to burn a CD. At present I don't have a CD burner on my PC (it's an old server, so never needed one). What I'm curious about is whether getting Nero to create an ISO image, and then burning that image on a Mac (the Intel iMac that I'd be dual booting) would work.

2) When you're partitioning the mac, are you limited to having just two partitions (I know they probably have to be named xp and osx). My reasoning, well, at the moment I have three partitions. two are 10.4.5, one other is blank (that can be reformatted to MS-DOS). I'd like to keep the two OS X partitions. One is my live setup, the other a development setup.

[zwilliams07]

In the broad sense, no it won't put a squeeze on Mac porters for games.

1. This current situation with XP on iiMac is not an ideal situation for MOST mac users.
2. This current situation with XP on iiMac will probably for a while remain only in the more advanced Mac Users group.
3. Mac porter's target audience is not those that will be likely to install XP on their machines.

Right now as it stands there is practically no difference in hardware to PCs. We have practically identical hardware outside of the custom logicboards.

The biggest hurdle of porting any game to OS X is the DirectX API. A lot of developers tend to use it for their games regardless of the fact that it is horribly bloated, slow, proprietary, and complete lock-in.

The biggest advance of Intel Macs is the fact that we can now theoretically match the raw MHz that was sucha common issue with porting. As Tim C (id) said when it comes down to it, its almost always the raw MHz that separates performance. I'm sure if it comes down to assembly coding for gaming we will be up there with the big guys in speed.

What needs to be done is the gap needs to be closed between OpenGL and DirectX. Apple is well on its way to closing the gaps between ATI and nVidia with OS X. They've been working together to bring Macs better performance.

When more developers start adopting OpenGL things should become a lot easier.

But in the end those of the upper elite Mac Users who will use XP on their machines will put very little pressure on Mac Porters unless the ports are outright pathetic.

[Steve1496]

1) You need to use Nero to burn a CD. At present I don't have a CD burner on my PC (it's an old server, so never needed one). What I'm curious about is whether getting Nero to create an ISO image, and then burning that image on a Mac (the Intel iMac that I'd be dual booting) would work.

2) When you're partitioning the mac, are you limited to having just two partitions (I know they probably have to be named xp and osx). My reasoning, well, at the moment I have three partitions. two are 10.4.5, one other is blank (that can be reformatted to MS-DOS). I'd like to keep the two OS X partitions. One is my live setup, the other a development setup.

1)If I understand correctly there is a way that Nero burns the CD which is essential. So this may or may not work--but you can try it.

2)xom.efi should recoginize which partition is MS-DOS and it will erase it then install. If you have more than one MS-DOS partition, I believe it chooses the first one. Also the names of your partitions do not matter--I had the same question and blanka said it wouldn't matter.

[balamw]

1)If I understand correctly there is a way that Nero burns the CD which is essential. So this may or may not work--but you can try it.

I'm pretty sure that you can get away with mkisofs as Bart does here to create a bootable XP slipstreamed disc http://www.nu2.nu/bootcd/wxp/. The steps are very similar. However, Nero is certainly far more friendly about it until you've got it working.

Once you have the iso from mkisofs, you should be able to just burn it on the Mac. But I could be wrong...

B

[ozone]

This is great because now I can purchase a Mac and not worry about losing the "ability" to run the few WinXP programs I really need access to.

But I don't really care about dual booting. All I really want is the ability to run WinXP programs fast WITHIN Mac OSX for the few times I would need access to a Windows specific program. All I'm looking for is a good VPC type program that can run at acceptable speeds. (I think they already exist? :confused: )

[cr2sh]

This whole thing feels sooooo goddamn Willy Wonka-ish to me.

Anyone else get that?

[Steve1496]

This is great because now I can purchase a Mac and not worry about losing the "ability" to run the few WinXP programs I really need access to.

But I don't really care about dual booting. All I really want is the ability to run WinXP programs fast WITHIN Mac OSX for the few times I would need access to a Windows specific program. All I'm looking for is a good VPC type program that can run at acceptable speeds. (I think they already exist? :confused: )

Kext is being developed for Q (only UB of course). That'll make it a virtualizer so it runs at near native speeds inside OS X. It of course, will be free with Q.
http://qemu.dad-answers.com/viewtopic.php?t=930&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

They're not done yet but he says only a few days.

[Aztechian]

Funny how to make the CD for installing XP on a mac, you have to have a PC...

If there's a way to do it in OS X, then we've got something. Would toast do it?

[nylon]

This whole thing feels sooooo goddamn Willy Wonka-ish to me.

Anyone else get that?

If by that you mean being a 10 year old in giant candy factory with unlimited potential, then yeah!!!

[flir67]

why doesn't anybody just create the iso on the pc and stream it to their mac. then burn the cd and install it that way. the hardest part is making sure the boot image is correctly loaded before buring the iso... thats why its so easy with nero, they add a choice for boot image selection. alot of others don't.

[DTphonehome]

Stop feeling so self important. Not everything is about the holocaust.

Dude, yeah, I know that, but just like people won't use the term "niggardly" anymore (go look it up, it has nothing to do with race) for fear of being misunderstood, so too the term "final solution" has come to be associated with Naziism. Try using the term "white power" to describe the brilliance of the color white. Let me know what people think of that.

[jblodgett]

So has anybody else actually gotten this to work?

[calculus]

So has anybody else actually gotten this to work?
Best post so far. I would love this whole thing to be a hoax including the 'prize money'

[Steve1496]

So has anybody else actually gotten this to work?


Now if the testers didn't have it working (all but 20" iMac), would they release it? ;)

[DTphonehome]

Now if the testers didn't have it working (all but 20" iMac), would they release it? ;)

I wonder what it is about the 20 incher specifically that makes this not work?

[phd]

So... will the Viruses migrate over from the dark side to the mac side when first booted up?:confused:
I mean really, this could be opening a big can of worms... the first OS X virus may have already happend:eek:

[dejo]

Funny how to make the CD for installing XP on a mac, you have to have a PC...

You need a PC? That's highlarious! Well, that stops quite a number of people who were going to try this from being able to.

[zwilliams07]

Funny how to make the CD for installing XP on a mac, you have to have a PC...

If there's a way to do it in OS X, then we've got something. Would toast do it?

I'm sure within a day or two, if not a few hours modified iiMac XP install .ISOs will be all over the torrent sites.

[Steve1496]

I wonder what it is about the 20 incher specifically that makes this not work?


The scanline size and framebuffer are different. I've been working in the console trying to adjust things but no luck so far.

[jblodgett]

Now if the testers didn't have it working (all but 20" iMac), would they release it? ;)


Well-- I'm waiting to see somebody actually give me some REAL data on this thing.

What's the speed like?
What's the driver situation?
Graphics?
Sound?
Games?????????

[Anonymous Freak]

So has anybody else actually gotten this to work?

Already backed up my MacBook Pro, downloading the software now. I'll let you know in a couple hours.

(But that is one Mac-like bootloader... WAAAY better than LILO, and even better than GRUB.)

[DTphonehome]

The scanline size and framebuffer are different. I've been working in the console trying to adjust things but no luck so far.

Good luck! It's guys like you who make the hacker community great! All these great minds working together to crack this nut. The power of the Internet!

[calculus]

Good luck! It's guys like you who make the hacker community great! All these great minds working together to crack this nut. The power of the Internet!
If only we could harness it to do something useful...

[varmatheone]

So... will the Viruses migrate over from the dark side to the mac side when first booted up?:confused:
I mean really, this could be opening a big can of worms... the first OS X virus may have already happend:eek:

OMG. Putting OSX and windows on the same disk would breed new viruses, with abnormal DNA that will destroy the whole world:eek: . Narf should'nt hav done it.:D

[milo]

Funny how to make the CD for installing XP on a mac, you have to have a PC...

If there's a way to do it in OS X, then we've got something. Would toast do it?

I would bet it would. I have yet to see a disk image that couldn't be burned on the mac.

Well-- I'm waiting to see somebody actually give me some REAL data on this thing.

What's the speed like?
What's the driver situation?
Graphics?
Sound?
Games?????????

Waiting? The real data is out. You just need to quit being lazy and read the damn thread.

[calculus]

OMG. Putting OSX and windows on the same disk would breed new viruses, with abnormal DNA that will destroy the whole world:eek: . Narf should'nt hav done it.:D
Natural selection is a wonderful thing

[Steve1496]

Well-- I'm waiting to see somebody actually give me some REAL data on this thing.

What's the speed like?
What's the driver situation?
Graphics?
Sound?
Games?????????

Reportedly,
Speed is overall very good.
Drivers are being discovered. We've got all networking working, and I believe chipset too.
Graphics is a problem. There aren't any good x1600M drivers for Windows, at least nobody has found any.
No sound yet through iMac speakers, but headphones work through optical out
Games, well read the graphics problem. Right now graphics are poor until we get good drivers.

[mjstew33]

Reportedly,
Speed is overall very good.
Drivers are being discovered. We've got all networking working, and I believe chipset too.
Graphics is a problem. There aren't any good x1600M drivers for Windows, at least nobody has found any.
No sound yet through iMac speakers, but headphones work through optical out
Games, well read the graphics problem. Right now graphics are poor until we get good drivers.
Wow! Very interesting! Graphic drivers will be out soon, isn't this a brand new graphics chip? I don't know much about graphics cards, just a little bit, I'm not a gamer.

::EDIT:: ---2,000th POST! w00t :D

[calculus]

Reportedly,
Speed is overall very good.
Drivers are being discovered. We've got all networking working, and I believe chipset too.
Graphics is a problem. There aren't any good x1600M drivers for Windows, at least nobody has found any.
No sound yet through iMac speakers, but headphones work through optical out
Games, well read the graphics problem. Right now graphics are poor until we get good drivers.
Fantastic achievement!

[next]

http://skuareisnext.free.fr/easy-reset-griffin.jpg


griffin should start doing this stuff to fix apple's design error... ¡no reset button! :D

[whooleytoo]

Dude, yeah, I know that, but just like people won't use the term "niggardly" anymore (go look it up, it has nothing to do with race) for fear of being misunderstood, so too the term "final solution" has come to be associated with Naziism. Try using the term "white power" to describe the brilliance of the color white. Let me know what people think of that.

Funny that this argument popped up on a thread about 'how to make your Mac more PC!" :p

[DTphonehome]

griffin should start doing this stuff to fix apple's design error... ¡no reset button! :D

The PowerMatePower!

[DTphonehome]

Funny that this argument popped up on a thread about 'how to make your Mac more PC!" :p

I haven't read it, purely coincidental :)

[MacsRgr8]

You need a PC? That's highlarious! Well, that stops quite a number of people who were going to try this from being able to.

Knowing the way the Maxxuss-patched 10.4.x for Generic Intel DVD's were shared, I'm pretty sure the pre-patched XP SP2 for Mac Intel CD will be available very, very shortly online somewhere.....

This IS ofcourse illegal.

[Chupa Chupa]

Should've included sarcasm tags. Calling Dvoraks fevered ravings a 'theory' is giving them astronomically excessive credit. I mean, if you look at the "evidence" that he based his column on, he could easily extrapolate that blanka and narf were simply the victims of Apple's ingenious plan to cut development costs by outsourcing it to Mac geeks and hackers, full-blown Windows adoption being 'just around the corner now'.


Yeah, your comment with the sarcasm tag has a whole different context. :D I just read it like you were being straight. You are right though...Dvorak will probably feel empowered to write a column on how this means Apple is dooooomed. Actually, he could just dust off an old column and update it.

[suntzu]

Reportedly,
Speed is overall very good.
Drivers are being discovered. We've got all networking working, and I believe chipset too.
Graphics is a problem. There aren't any good x1600M drivers for Windows, at least nobody has found any.
No sound yet through iMac speakers, but headphones work through optical out
Games, well read the graphics problem. Right now graphics are poor until we get good drivers.

I thought the graphics did work just not on the Mac mini (because it's using Intel's graphics accelerator).

ATI has a unified driver like nVidia's. So it's not a matter of finding good drivers, it's a matter of find those beta drivers that are so abundant on the nVidia side.

[phil989]

Pretty kol..
but what about if a user is working on Mac Only based programs and want to tranfer stuff from Windows only files or something? Will people have the availability to run both OS' at the same time.. like have one account under windows and another under OSX ?
Maybe that could be taken into consideration?

whoa slow down guys! sure this is a neat idea, but so are flying cars. i think its pretty amazing that this has been achieved in such a small timeframe. i know little about this, but running windows WITHIN mac os x, or visa verse, sounds a whole lot more difficult.

Phil

[whooleytoo]

I haven't read it, purely coincidental :)

(Just to clarify - I was paraphrasing the title of this thread! ;) )

[balamw]

Drivers are being discovered. We've got all networking working, and I believe chipset too.
Does that include wireless (AirPort) networking? If so, any reports if it is suffering the same fate as under OS X where it doesn't seem particularly robust?

B

[Steve1496]

I thought the graphics did work just not on the Mac mini (because it's using Intel's graphics accelerator).

ATI has a unified driver like nVidia's. So it's not a matter of finding good drivers, it's a matter of find those beta drivers that are so abundant on the nVidia side.


What do you mean? Blanka worked with a Mac Mini tester and fixed the Mac Mini, so mini works now. As for drivers for the Intel graphics, I don't think that'd be hard to find.

ATI Catlyst drivers do not work for the iMacs, and MBP.

[nylon]

Here's a Flickr set of XP up and running on a Macbook Pro. The pics show the bootloader as well as the components in Device manager that need drivers. I believe all the driver issues have been sorted out except the Video Card (X1600) and the Built in Camera. Enjoy!!

XP on a Macbook Pro (http://www.flickr.com/photos/86824404@N00/113400989/in/photostream/)

I'm so close to buying an intel Mac I can taste it. Must resist....for now.

[ThomasM]

i guess this will work using an eh "copied" version of windows xp sp2 ?

[Steve1496]

Does that include wireless (AirPort) networking? If so, any reports if it is suffering the same fate as under OS X where it doesn't seem particularly robust?

B


Yeah, someone found a Dell that had the same specs and tried that driver, and it works for wireless. The Marvell Yukon driver works for Ethernet too.

I'm not sure if there's stability issues (I never had this problem with my iMac), because all the sites with those reports/info are down due to overloads.

[dejo]

...I'm pretty sure the pre-patched XP SP2 for Mac Intel CD will be available very, very shortly online somewhere.....

This IS of course illegal.

Hmm. Since I think there were a number of forum members here who were hoping to be able to legally run Windows and Mac OS X side-by-side on their new Mac.

[simie]

Anyone read this
http://nak.journalspace.com/

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=30353

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060316-6393.html

[MacsRgr8]

Hmm. Since I think there were a number of forum members here who were hoping to be able to legally run Windows and Mac OS X side-by-side on their new Mac.

Oh.. they still can ;)

But this wil help you out if you haven't got a "real" PC... but do own a legal copy of XP SP2 :p

[john7jr]

In case anyone wanted to see the Dual-boot process...

My pics via Flickr
http://www.flickr.com/photos/86824404@N00/

Same pics via PhotoBucket:
http://photobucket.com/albums/j60/macbookboot/

-John

[dejo]

You probably have already heard, but the contest is over...

Yeah, um, that's the title of this thread.

The few short-comings their solution has will quickly be fixed by the large open source community!

I'm hoping that includes fixing the short-coming of requiring a PC to create the install CD. I'd like to see a way of getting that done via Mac, without breaking any laws.

[MacsRgr8]

Anyone read this
http://nak.journalspace.com/
... snip ...


Eh.. just woke up?
:D

[AidenShaw]

Graphics is a problem. There aren't any good x1600M drivers for Windows, at least nobody has found any.

Games, well read the graphics problem. Right now graphics are poor until we get good drivers.
Microsoft has a large selection of graphics drivers on its XP CD, but there are two issues that come up:

Graphics chips that came out after the XP CD was manufactured might not be supported at all, or may work with an older version of the driver that doesn't support all capabilities
3D (DirectX/OpenG) is not supported at all - it's always been the responsibility of the graphics card companies to provide drivers that support hardware accelerated 3D
Software emulated 3D is supported.

That's probably why the full resolution/color depth of the monitor works, but games are a problem.

[suntzu]

What do you mean? Blanka worked with a Mac Mini tester and fixed the Mac Mini, so mini works now. As for drivers for the Intel graphics, I don't think that'd be hard to find.

I know it runs on the Mac mini. I said that the video component is probably using the generic video drivers included with XP and that the Intel graphics drivers need to be found.

ATI Catlyst drivers do not work for the iMacs, and MBP.

Do you mean they DO work for PC systems that have the X1600 Mobility and that the drivers just don't have any support just for macs?

[g.x]

Okay, maybe I'm the only one that hasn't figured this out...

How do you insert/eject an optical disc?

[DTphonehome]

Microsoft has a large selection of graphics drivers on its XP CD, but there are two issues that come up:

Graphics chips that came out after the XP CD was manufactured might not be supported at all, or may work with an older version of the driver that doesn't support all capabilities
3D (DirectX/OpenG) is not supported at all - it's always been the responsibility of the graphics card companies to provide drivers that support hardware accelerated 3D
Software emulated 3D is supported.

That's probably why the full resolution/color depth of the monitor works, but games are a problem.

Is writing a custom video driver a realistic possibility? Or modifying the closest thing to the x1600 and releasing that?

[Maaij]

Hi

Is it possible the install it on a extern HD?

Am I able to play avi files or are the video drivers not ready for this yet?

[milo]

Okay, maybe I'm the only one that hasn't figured this out...

How do you insert/eject an optical disc?

Insert is just like mac, the intel macs are all slot loading. In windows, there are a couple ways to eject CD's, the simplest is just to right click it in the finder and pick Eject from the menu.

[nagromme]

This is all GOOD for Apple and for Mac users, and thus indirectly bad (in the long term) for Microsoft. I'm kind of surprised it took this long :)

As for Mac-native software: whether companies keep developing for Mac depends on only one thing--demand/sales.

Demand and sales of Mac apps will INCREASE, not decrease, so there's no fear of a reduction in Mac apps. They will grow more than ever.

The factors:

* Demand will fall a TINY amount from people who are willing to settle for Windows apps--apps with their own awkward UI different from the Mac UI, and apps that you can't (if you dual boot) use at the same TIME as your Mac apps. This is not good usability, but does the job and some people will settle for it--some will have to.

* At the same time, demand will grow a HUGE amount as the overall Mac market grows. And ability to run Windows apps will in fact help that to happen (it's a great comfort zone for people afraid to leave the herd).

If you think demand for Mac apps will shrink, then you must think people's willingness to run Windows apps on Mac will grow faster than the overall growth of the Mac market. You must think Mac users will be willing to "settle" for Windows apps on a large scale. I think the reverse will be true, in a big way.

Some Mac owners ALREADY use Windows apps if they have to. They run VPC or keep an old PC around. It's not like living dual-platform is some new option. It's simply faster now. But the point is that it's something Mac users do if they HAVE to--but they'd RATHER have the Mac version. That preference isn't changing.

Most people may not need Windows apps on Mac, but some do (including me, for occasional Windows testing at least), and having the option is a good thing for the Mac platform, not a bad one.

[HyperX]

Insert is just like mac, the intel macs are all slot loading. In windows, there are a couple ways to eject CD's, the simplest is just to right click it in the finder and pick Eject from the menu.

TSK TSK

Explorer. Get use to it. It's going to be ok (gives you a shoulder)

[Steve1496]

I know it runs on the Mac mini. I said that the video component is probably using the generic video drivers included with XP and that the Intel graphics drivers need to be found.


http://www.intel.com/support/chipsets/sb/CS-020683.htm
This should cover graphics, no?


Do you mean they DO work for PC systems that have the X1600 Mobility and that the drivers just don't have any support just for macs?

The ATI drivers don't support x1600 yet. There was a driver that was a beta for users who didn't want to wait for it for Windows, but I can't find that as the forums at OnMac and OSX86Project are down. I'm unsure if these are tested yet.

[john7jr]

Okay, maybe I'm the only one that hasn't figured this out...

How do you insert/eject an optical disc?

:confused:

You place the circular discy thingie (CD) in the slot on the front of the MacBook.

It spins...

You press the "eject key" to the right of the f12 key, and it comes back out that same slot.

=)

[ThomasM]

i guess this will work using an eh "copied" version of windows xp sp2 ?

yes ? no ?

[HyperX]

Okay, maybe I'm the only one that hasn't figured this out...

How do you insert/eject an optical disc?

Insert the disc you simply push it against the slot till it gets sucked in.

Eject you simply stick a flathead screw driver in and pry it loose. Failing this a Hammer will surfice ;P

[nickweston]

Now that someone else figured out how I can boot Windows on my G5, I can focus all my attention on getting that Buick engine to fit in my Ferrari.

NW

[MacsRgr8]

yes ? no ?

let's put it this way: why not?

[Aztechian]

Now that someone else figured out how I can boot Windows on my G5, I can focus all my attention on getting that Buick engine to fit in my Ferrari.

NW

I hope this was part of the joke...

[peharri]

Actually, it's not possible for Intel Macs to be running "Mac Edition" video cards. The "Mac Edition" referred to a change in Endianess, due to differences between x86 and PowerPC. Since Intel Macs use Intel chips, and therefore Intel's take on Endianess, a Mac Edition video card would not work.
It should be possible to just write or reverse-engineer and re-implement an existing Windows driver for a similar video chipset.

FWIW, it doesn't have anything to do with endianess. There are PC Radeon cards out there that have been successfully reflashed as Mac Edition cards.

The issue is actually just a firmware one. Mac Edition cards generally have OpenFirmware compatable ROMs (or, these days, ROM images in flash), PCs have VESA BIOSes.

There are occasionally minor changes above and beyond that, but that's generally the difference. To make things a little more complicated, the PCI IDs usually differ between PC and Mac Edition versions, which means code that doesn't use the firmware (such as X.org/XFree86) still will not work without being told, specifically, that despite what the PCI ID says, it really is such-and-such a card.

[harveypooka]

This is great news - I just got my PPC iMac replaced with an Intel one it was delivered today! I will go out and buy Half Life 2 tomorrow and load up XP if I know that there are drivers for the X1600. Is it as simple as just loading the Windows drivers or does the BIOS have to be programmed to accept/recognise the card? If I can load Windows drivers, I'm playing Half Life 2 all weekend....lovely. Half Life 2 on an iMac...that sounds so nice. Would be nicer if it were OSX though....

[javiercr]

the onmac.net site is overloaded but you can download from mirrors, i.e mine:

http://www.devishlyslinky.com/winxponmac0.1.zip

moderator: if you don't like to have a link to this here please remove post.

[suntzu]

Microsoft has a large selection of graphics drivers on its XP CD, but there are two issues that come up:

Graphics chips that came out after the XP CD was manufactured might not be supported at all, or may work with an older version of the driver that doesn't support all capabilities
3D (DirectX/OpenG) is not supported at all - it's always been the responsibility of the graphics card companies to provide drivers that support hardware accelerated 3D
Software emulated 3D is supported.

That's probably why the full resolution/color depth of the monitor works, but games are a problem.

The first point: Actually they are "supported" but you need to download the drivers for them. These WHQL Certified drivers are supported.

The second point: I think there might be some confusion. DirectX support IS in Windows. It's the responsibility of the card makers to make sure their cards support 3D DirectX "calls".

[RichP]

Has anyone tried the catalyst for XP media center? it says to include x1K family drivers, may work for the 1600...

[g.x]

I've always wanted to title a post with that.

Okay, okay, so I AM a bone-head...didn't know you can right-click and eject a disc from Windows.

And as far as putting it in, I never knew that it worked like a car stereo tray...you just push it in? I (poor me) have a lowly g3 ibook...I have to "eject" to open the tray before I can load a disc.

[calculus]

Now that someone else figured out how I can boot Windows on my G5, I can focus all my attention on getting that Buick engine to fit in my Ferrari.

NW
Yes!

[john7jr]

yes ? no ?

You have to create a custom CD from an existing REAL XP SP2 disc. It does not matter if the CD is copied or not, as long as it's functional.

=)

[DTphonehome]

I refuse to believe this is true! How can you run windows on a mac when everyone knows macs EXPLODE when you plug in a two-button mouse?! Answer THAT, Mr. Smartypants!

[wasd]

who can voice chat and follow the instruction with me. I following the instructions but just not sure. Just want to double check with someone by voice chat. Anyone willing to help.

Thanks

[calculus]

Anyone know how I can get a VHS tape to work in my betamax machine?

[suntzu]

http://www.intel.com/support/chipsets/sb/CS-020683.htm
This should cover graphics, no?

Link (http://forum.osx86project.org/index.php?showtopic=12185)

I was looking at this thread for the information and it stated the problem with the driver for the Mac mini. Guess you and others have found it.

[Aztechian]

who can voice chat and follow the instruction with me. I following the instructions but just not sure. Just want to double check with someone by voice chat. Anyone willing to help.

Thanks

Just give me your mac...I'll set it up for you...
:D

Really, though, If you are that unsure maybe this isn't for you just yet?

[prostuff1]

I was just dreaming about that as well! :eek:

You know you have problems when you start dreaming about booting windows on a mac and fast user-ish switching between the OS's. :p :D

On a side note i had a very simlar dream to that last night :o. Whether that is a good thing or not i am not sure yet.

[wasd]

yea, its true. But i will want to install windows on my macbook pro. Where are you maybe we can meet up.

[Steve1496]

Link (http://forum.osx86project.org/index.php?showtopic=12185)

I was looking at this thread for the information and it stated the problem with the driver for the Mac mini. Guess you and others have found it.


Site has been down much of today. Are you able to get on now--I can't?

[suntzu]

Site has been down much of today. Are you able to get on now--I can't?

No. Haven't been able to connect recently.

I found the link through one of the comments on engadget. Seems it's getting pounded now. That could be a good or bad thing! :D

[milo]

You press the "eject key" to the right of the f12 key, and it comes back out that same slot.

The eject key works in XP? :confused: :confused: :confused:

yes ? no ?
Sure. You can bet it will be on a torrent site by end of day.

Has anyone tried the catalyst for XP media center? it says to include x1K family drivers, may work for the 1600...

Considering there have already been about ten posts saying catalyst doesn't work...it's likely someone tried them.

[Aztechian]

These were the mirrors listed on the download page from onmac.net

http://harrisonjordan.com/Winxponmac_0.1.zip
http://leewilkins.com/share/winxponmac0.1.zip
http://www.jerrybrace.com/Winxponmac%200.1.zip
http://www.geekdinner.co.uk/winxponmac0.1.zip
http://www.apple.tempex.sk/wordpress/Winxponmac%200.1.zip

[suntzu]

To those wondering how to eject on Windows XP without using the keyboard (and since there's no eject button on the unit), right-click on the drive and select 'Eject'. :)

[Detlev]

I can't get it to work on my G5. I think I killed it. Someone help... I wanna say I use a PC. :D


Just kidding.

[liketom]

help me someone !!

not a terminal minded person but how do i get this to work proper?

i have put the XOM.EFI file in Macintosh HDD so what would i type here ?

cd to the directory where you put xom.efi and type
sudo bless --folder . --file xom.efi --setBoot

:o

EDIT : got it my self ...what a wally

[harveypooka]

The first point: Actually they are "supported" but you need to download the drivers for them. These WHQL Certified drivers are supported.

The second point: I think there might be some confusion. DirectX support IS in Windows. It's the responsibility of the card makers to make sure their cards support 3D DirectX "calls".

OK - so I install the the WHQL certified drivers...they are recognised. Will the X1600 make calls to DirectX? In short, can we run games on our Mac's with Windows XP? If not, I don't want XP on my Mac. I only want it for Elder Scrolls, Eve Online and Half Life 2!

[flir67]

I refuse to believe this is true! How can you run windows on a mac when everyone knows macs EXPLODE when you plug in a two-button mouse?! Answer THAT, Mr. Smartypants!

NOW thats funny....

roflol.......

[Steve1496]

help me someone !!

not a terminal minded person but how do i get this to work proper?

i have put the XOM.EFI file in Macintosh HDD so what would i type here ?

cd to the directory where you put xom.efi and type
sudo bless --folder . --file xom.efi --setBoot

:o


Put it in your HOME folder then do
sudo cp xom.efi /System/Library/CoreServices
then do:
cd /System/Library/CoreServices
finally,
sudo bless --folder . --file xom.efi --setBoot

[RichP]

Considering there have already been about ten posts saying catalyst doesn't work...it's likely someone tried them.

There are a variety of different types of catalyst drivers on the site, although it is likely that someone has tried all of them, even those not for XP...

[flir67]

To those wondering how to eject on Windows XP without using the keyboard (and since there's no eject button on the unit), right-click on the drive and select 'Eject'. :)

oh geezz... the good days return ... just push that eject button on the front of your mac.. don't see it... hum.. thats strange I though all had those button thingies..

LOL....

[DougTheImpaler]

maybe he'll be able to afford a damn tripod so he doesn't give us all epileptic siezures next time he makes a video. :eek:

[milo]

maybe he'll be able to afford a damn tripod so he doesn't give us all epileptic siezures next time he makes a video. :eek:

Or maybe he'll just not bother making a video since all the ungrateful ***holes just whined about it anyway.

[suntzu]

OK - so I install the the WHQL certified drivers...they are recognised. Will the X1600 make calls to DirectX? In short, can we run games on our Mac's with Windows XP? If not, I don't want XP on my Mac. I only want it for Elder Scrolls, Eve Online and Half Life 2!

I think I should clarify a little bit. WHQL certified drivers means that Microsoft vouches for the drivers. That doesn't mean non-WHQL certified drivers don't work. It means that you get no official support (and a warning box when you try to install them).

So to answer your quesion. Yes, you can run your games if the system uses the drivers for the X1600 and says so in the device manager.

[flir67]

has anybody thought to back up their efi.. once you set the new efi ,it over writes the old one ?yes... is this correctr

so what happens if you want to restore it. are we screwed?? or does restoring osx restore it.?????????

all apple would have to do is create a update to check the efi upon booting and lock the machine for those with xp installed on the new efi.

thats what I'm worried about the most. some update from apple causing our machines to be useless.

[Steve1496]

has anybody thought to back up their efi.. once you set the new efi ,it over writes the old one ?yes... is this correctr

so what happens if you want to restore it. are we screwed?? or does restoring osx restore it.?????????

all apple would have to do is create a update to check the efi upon booting and lock the machine for those with xp installed on the new efi.

thats what I'm worried about the most. some update from apple causing our machines to be useless.


It only copies xom.efi to CoreServices. It doesn't replace boot.efi, which is OS X's bootloader.

[suntzu]

It only copies xom.efi to CoreServices. It doesn't replace boot.efi, which is OS X's bootloader.

Besides, didn't Apple say they weren't going to actively stop people from doing it? And didn't they say how some people are forced to use Windows?

[Tupring]

Wow, that was fast. I hope the end of software being written for Power PC Mac's doesn't happen at a similar pace now.
:(
Yeah, it would really suck to not have a useable computer anymore. Maybe I could see the sunlight? :p But it really would be bad...

[jrk07]

I can't wait for this to be through a few versions and the new PowerMacs (MacPros or whatever) come out and have some sweet gaming. I have my doubts of gaming on a iMac with its X1600 graphics or especially the mac mini with integrated, but a nice powermac with a sweet graphics card, I can't wait!

[Kobushi]

ewwwww.... it's like a rotten Apple.

I may have some sort of use for it..... no. wait. I don't.

[Maaij]

It only copies xom.efi to CoreServices. It doesn't replace boot.efi, which is OS X's bootloader.
So if I format my HD I can go back to stock?

[Steve1496]

So if I format my HD I can go back to stock?


Correct.

[Aztechian]

I was perusing the instructions, and in the bless command it has:

sudo bless --folder . --file xom.efi --setBoot

I haven't found a man page yet that documents the --file option. (on 10.4.5 anyhow) Anyone know what thats about?

Edit: Maybe an intel only option? I only have a PPC...

[rog]

Hoax.

[tknelson]

I don't think many of you understand. This doesn't hurt development for the Mac overnight, it is a slow erosion that takes time. For example, read all the posts saying "I would only use it to run the occasional piece of software that is Windows only". Yes... and once you can do that easily and with native performance, there is *ZERO* pressure on the developer of that software to create an OSX version... he gets your money either way.

Case in point, Garmin announced at MWSF that they will make Mac-native versions of their GPS software... something that many people have been requesting for quite some time. If their software worked great under OSX through VPC or some fast switching solution, how motivated would they be to do that? Google Earth? Games? I doubt we'll ever see Autocad for the Mac again now. Then look at companies that may be on the edge of dropping Mac development for one reason or another. No MS Office for the Mac, anyone? Again, that won't happen overnight, but it could happen.

It takes time, but if Wintel software works as well and transparently on a Mac as it does on a PC, then you will see cases of this, guaranteed. It took years, but this was a huge factor in the slow and painful death of OS/2.

[Hodapp]

Hoax.
Idiot.

[robertmorris2]

For goodness sakes !! Why all the bother ? The windows boxes are cheap enough to buy one.....don't mess up a great product ( Mac ) with the crap from microsoft....

[usarioclave]

Hah! There you go! All those people that doubed that narf got it, well, he got it.

It just goes to show that opinions of people online are almost as useless as the people in real life. What matters is what people do, not what people say. And the people that say are almost always wrong.

[mark88]

I don't think many of you understand. This doesn't hurt development for the Mac overnight, it is a slow erosion that takes time. For example, read all the posts saying "I would only use it to run the occasional piece of software that is Windows only". Yes... and once you can do that easily and with native performance, there is *ZERO* pressure on the developer of that software to create an OSX version... he gets your money either way.

Have you read all the answers to this in this post? Anyone who thinks like you will be proven very very wrong IMO.

I'm not holding my breath for the first software company to say "we can't be arsed making a mac version anymore, just run it with your hacked copy of windows instead".....seriously, this ain't gonna happen.

It's like saying Windows and OS X are equals and that people are equally happy whichever OS they use to run their apps. This is simply not true. I believe people who buys macs will always want MOST, if not ALL of their software for OS X. Not Windows. Booting up Windows is something to be done only when there's no other option.

[MacsomJRR]

Idiot.

Ditto.

[prostuff1]

I know NO one will do this, but I remember somewhere in the XP manuals it says you MUST put the XP sticker (the one with all the license information) somewhere on the computer that you are installing XP to. Now seriously, who would do this? :D

Here is my opinion (whether legit or not) on the images of XP (.iso). Microsoft could care less if you make copies of the XP. But, as long as you buy a license for it, it should be perfectly acceptable. That is why the XP cd says "Do not make illegal duplicates." So its ok to make copies, as long as you do it legally.

Also, for those students out there, http://www.msdnaa.net/search/SchoolSearch.aspx?/ Search for your schools, and email the admin to get your login. This should give you EXCELLENT discount off of XP. If you are lucky, even free XP license!

That is freaking SWEET!!! According to what i have found my school (OSU) and my major (computer science and engineering) is eligable for FREE XP SP2 discs. Hell i dont even have a Windows machine but if they arfe going to give me free software then i might just have to build one (have been wanting to anyway)

Thats really cool, thanks for pointing that out!!

[mark88]

For goodness sakes !! Why all the bother ? The windows boxes are cheap enough to buy one.....don't mess up a great product ( Mac ) with the crap from microsoft....

This post needs framing or something, to show it off as a prime example of just how ignorant certain peoples opinions on this subject can be.

Honestly, after all the threads on this issue. Still people don't have a clue..

[milo]

... and once you can do that easily and with native performance, there is *ZERO* pressure on the developer of that software to create an OSX version... he gets your money either way.

Case in point, Garmin announced at MWSF that they will make Mac-native versions of their GPS software... something that many people have been requesting for quite some time. If their software worked great under OSX through VPC or some fast switching solution, how motivated would they be to do that? Google Earth? Games? I doubt we'll ever see Autocad for the Mac again now. Then look at companies that may be on the edge of dropping Mac development for one reason or another. No MS Office for the Mac, anyone? Again, that won't happen overnight, but it could happen.

Dual boot doesn't run windows apps "easily". It runs them, but it's a pain since you have to reboot the machine. And the motivation for writing OSX versions is that they will sell. They'll be bought by the 90% of mac users who won't do this AND the 10% who do.

No MS office? Doubtful since for every 1 mac user who switched to the XP version you'd have 10 who would stick with the last released version or find other office apps.

Mac market share is on the rise, and this may boost it even more. Go look at the news reports of this on PC sites and read all the comments from PC users saying that now they're finally willing to buy a mac. If you make a mac version, mac users will buy it. Period. And if you don't make a mac version, customers will be more likely to buy a competing product that does have a mac version than a PC version that requires a reboot.

OS2 isn't much of a comparison since it never had much of a user base to start with.

For goodness sakes !! Why all the bother ? The windows boxes are cheap enough to buy one.....don't mess up a great product ( Mac ) with the crap from microsoft....

So Rob, does that mean you're willing to spring for one? Sounds like you can afford to if you think a few hundred bucks can be tossed away that easily.

[081440]

I think this is a great developement for Apple as a hardware producer. As was said before Apple now has a product that can run three OS's. Does that mean the downfall of OS X? I don't think so, infact I hope more people will buy macs now and take advantage of OS X. My father has had to own Windows boxes for years becuase the software he needed for work was only written for the PC, He can now run the software on the mac and at the end of the day switch to using OS X for the ease of use and fun it provides.:)

I also remember a pole somewhere (on this site?) that showed that many colledge students would consider switching to macs if they also ran windows for use with games. What better way to reach a larger market than to bring the iPod generations up on Macs!:D

Of course this is looking on he bright side of things, and things may go the opposite way with the eventual erosion of OS X, but it is a risk that I believe stands to help Apple, at least in the short term.

[XNine]

So... This means I can finally play all of those pirated Hentai games, eh?

[rabatjoie]

I refuse to believe this is true! How can you run windows on a mac when everyone knows macs EXPLODE when you plug in a two-button mouse?! Answer THAT, Mr. Smartypants!


LOL

[mrplow]

so before repartitioning my hard drive i went ahead and made the disk and applied the EFI file etc and tested it- and of course it booted XP install and began, but sicne i didnt have anywhere ready to install yet I canceled... now I've gone ahead and booted from the OSX cd and created my partitions....... and now it wont let me install OSX, ive tried going back to one partition full size et.c.. wont let me select it.. no matter hwhat im getting a red exclamation point over my hard drive!!!! anyone know naything about this? I remember reading workarounds to problems like this inorder to install OSX on an external drive...

please oh please someone =\ this is extrememly lame... and possibly a coincidence..

[whooleytoo]

Dual boot doesn't run windows apps "easily". It runs them, but it's a pain since you have to reboot the machine.

Just on this point, this isn't always an inconvenience. For someone like myself, who might need a PC at work and a Mac at home (and shuts the MacBook down for the trip), it's no problem.

[Steve1496]

so before repartitioning my hard drive i went ahead and made the disk and applied the EFI file etc and tested it- and of course it booted XP install and began, but sicne i didnt have anywhere ready to install yet I canceled... now I've gone ahead and booted from the OSX cd and created my partitions....... and now it wont let me install OSX, ive tried going back to one partition full size et.c.. wont let me select it.. no matter hwhat im getting a red exclamation point over my hard drive!!!! anyone know naything about this? I remember reading workarounds to problems like this inorder to install OSX on an external drive...

please oh please someone =\ this is extrememly lame... and possibly a coincidence..


Erase the whole drive (selected your hard drive NOT a partition), then recreate the partitions. It worked for me.

[mrplow]

I've done that before and it's worked but right now it's not.... im zeroing the drive now in hopes...


and now i just canceled zeroing it nad now its working... thanks so much for.. uhm.. eh you helped :) thanks.

[kirk26]

ewwwww.... it's like a rotten Apple.

I may have some sort of use for it..... no. wait. I don't.


Or a golden apple.

[Steve1496]

Dual boot doesn't run windows apps "easily". It runs them, but it's a pain since you have to reboot the machine.


Then wait for XenSource to finish their Xen for Mac OS X. It'll be able to run Windows XP side by side with Mac OS X.

Expect it summer/Q3 2006.

[calculus]

so before repartitioning my hard drive i went ahead and made the disk and applied the EFI file etc and tested it- and of course it booted XP install and began, but sicne i didnt have anywhere ready to install yet I canceled... now I've gone ahead and booted from the OSX cd and created my partitions....... and now it wont let me install OSX, ive tried going back to one partition full size et.c.. wont let me select it.. no matter hwhat im getting a red exclamation point over my hard drive!!!! anyone know naything about this? I remember reading workarounds to problems like this inorder to install OSX on an external drive...

please oh please someone =\ this is extrememly lame... and possibly a coincidence..
...and so it begins. Listen to the sound of support groups being formed. Hope you fix it tho.

[mrplow]

...and so it begins. Listen to the sound of support groups being formed. Hope you fix it tho.


fixed, fixed... trying to create msdos partition again now.. (am i crazy?)

[iMeowbot]

Also, while we're de-bunking myths---the Windows BSOD was a Win98 thing. Under XP, it's more like OSX--individual program crashes/freezes are isolated to the program, which can be stopped separately using the task manager. I don't recall ever seeing a BSOD in the several years I had an XP computer.
The BSOD under XP is about as common as a Mac kernel panic. Some people never run into them or see them only rarely, others see them daily. It often comes down to misbehaving hardware, sometimes a corrupt file or setting is at fault.
The install requires a Windows XP PC, with which Windows is already installed. From here you use Nero Burning ROM to mix files from your XP SP2 CD, copy them to a new project, and add in some $OEM$ files and folders, and fix some of the files in i386.
Since software already exists to work with the compressed Windows files and .cabs on the Mac, it may then not be out of the question to build a patched CD under OS X and do away with the iffy legalities. That would be nice if it can happen.

[calculus]

fixed, fixed... trying to create msdos partition again now.. (am i crazy?)
Yes!

[mrplow]

The BSOD under XP is about as common as a Mac kernel panic. Some people never run into them or see them only rarely, others see them daily. It often comes down to misbehaving hardware, sometimes a corrupt file or setting is at fault.

Since software already exists to work with the compressed Windows files and .cabs on the Mac, it may then not be out of the question to build a patched CD under OS X and do away with the iffy legalities. That would be nice if it can happen.


It requires Nero-- nero has a 'bootable cd' option and it is imperative to making these instructions work. (if someone put it all together and made an image, im sure that could be distributed and burned on a mac)

[081440]

How hard is it to get on the site to dowload this? Been trying for quite some time, but Safari says the server is no longer responding.:(

I there any chance this would be taken down soon?:eek:

Just want to get a copy before Uncle Sam, Microsoft, or Apple get involved. (Hope they don't, but you never know!)

[SiliconAddict]

Knowing the way the Maxxuss-patched 10.4.x for Generic Intel DVD's were shared, I'm pretty sure the pre-patched XP SP2 for Mac Intel CD will be available very, very shortly online somewhere.....

This IS ofcourse illegal.

Gah. I promised myself I wouldn't be back here for a while and here I am. Site is like crack hopped up on caffeine, with a hit of sugar.


Anyways the reason I need to post was simple. Windows XP the CD itself isn't illegal to download off the net. Microsoft's licensing is pretty straight forward. Take a look at the back of any Windows laptop and you will see a sticker that has your activation code and the pretty hologram that use to be on sheets of paper. At this point in time THAT sticker is your license. AS long as you have A license you can download the media til your heart’s content. The issue though is two fold. First most Mac users aren’t going to buy a license. (A Mac user purchasing Windows? NEVER!)
Secondly that license entitles you to a SINGLE install. Microsoft has played fast and loose with this for some time but they are starting to enforce it. If you take XP off your beige box and drop it onto a Mac via a hacked CD you downloaded Microsoft doesn’t care as long as there is ONE and only one install of Windows. The thing is you need to keep that license sticker or you loose your license for Windows. (Unless you purchased a retail copy.)

I personally plan on running Windows on my MacBook Pro. The only problem is that it won’t happen until I upgrade my hard drive. I’m down to 8GB of free space and any install of Windows I’m going to want about 10-15GB. Seagate can’t come out with their 2.5” SATA 260GB hard drive soon enough.

OK I’m gone again. I think. Stupid moderator.

[mrplow]

Yes!
now have a dos and hfs partition.. and its installing OSX :) yay yay

[harveypooka]

I can't wait for this to be through a few versions and the new PowerMacs (MacPros or whatever) come out and have some sweet gaming. I have my doubts of gaming on a iMac with its X1600 graphics or especially the mac mini with integrated, but a nice powermac with a sweet graphics card, I can't wait!
Why do you doubt gaming on the X1600? It's a decent card. Have you seen the crap Half Life 2 will run on! It's a wonderful bit of software...
Oh..check this out...hehe...

http://www.junktown.co.uk/macs.JPG

The one on the left is the Intel Mac...one on the right...the PPC.

[Tupring]

Besides, didn't Apple say they weren't going to actively stop people from doing it? And didn't they say how some people are forced to use Windows?Yeah, Apple has never said one thing, and done another :D And no one, and I mean NO ONE is FORCED to use Windows. "Just say no!"

[AEMV]

SOLUTION DOWNLOAD MIRRORS

Mirror 1:
http://harrisonjordan.com/Winxponmac_0.1.zip

Mirror 2:
http://leewilkins.com/share/winxponmac0.1.zip

Mirror 3:
http://www.jerrybrace.com/Winxponmac%200.1.zip

Mirror 4:
http://www.geekdinner.co.uk/winxponmac0.1.zip

Mirror 5:
http://www.apple.tempex.sk/wordpress/Winxponmac%200.1.zip

[mrplow]

I'd be willing to distribute the patch XP cd... but I won't provide a CDKEY for it.
Note to college students- ALOT of schools give XP for free (you pay a fee in tuition for software licenses).. so, you might want to check into that.

[AEMV]

Drivers Hunt Forum Thread.

Currently unavailable due to excess traffic.

http://forum.osx86project.org/index.php?showtopic=12185

[harveypooka]

You can add me to the list:

http://www.junktown.co.uk/random/intelmac/xp.zip

It's also there in an unzipped format, just remove the xp.zip bit.

[Maaij]

I'd be willing to distribute the patch XP cd... but I won't provide a CDKEY for it.
Note to college students- ALOT of schools give XP for free (you pay a fee in tuition for software licenses).. so, you might want to check into that.

Distribute on the net? Would be cool :)

[adam1185]

So what happens if you try and install this on a 20" iMac. Will it boot into windows at all?

What about external USB hard drives? Any word on whether or not you can load windows onto them?

[Steve1496]

So what happens if you try and install this on a 20" iMac. Will it boot into windows at all?

What about external USB hard drives? Any word on whether or not you can load windows onto them?


You'll get to the part where you're supposed to wait two and a half minutes. From here it'll hang and not do anything. The problem is with the video drivers in xom.efi

[AidenShaw]

That is freaking SWEET!!! According to what i have found my school (OSU) and my major (computer science and engineering) is eligable for FREE XP SP2 discs!!
More likely that some small portion of your tuition has already been sent to Microsoft to cover the campus-wide licensing agreement.

[mrplow]

More likely that some small portion of your tuition has already been sent to Microsoft to cover the campus-wide licensing agreement.


exactly right... but it's fun to think it's free


back to drivers- i downlaoded the wifi/ethernet/chipset drivers yesterday, though most of the sites are flooded and down... does anyone know if ati drivers or anything else were discovered yet?

also on the note of school software.. has anyone gotten OS X from their college? at Univ of Pitt they give all the microsoft stuff on official MS cds.. but OS X is on a burned CD they labeled themselves-- kinda lame

[AEMV]

I will wait until around April 1st to get my MacBook or whatever it is apple announces that day...CANT FREAKIN WAIT!!!

[iSee]

I've always wanted to title a post with that.

Okay, okay, so I AM a bone-head...didn't know you can right-click and eject a disc from Windows.

And as far as putting it in, I never knew that it worked like a car stereo tray...you just push it in? I (poor me) have a lowly g3 ibook...I have to "eject" to open the tray before I can load a disc.

Now you've got the mad hak0r skillzzz to run XPonMac like the big boys ;) :rolleyes: :D

[Maaij]

exactly right... but it's fun to think it's free


back to drivers- i downlaoded the wifi/ethernet/chipset drivers yesterday, though most of the sites are flooded and down... does anyone know if ati drivers or anything else were discovered yet?

Do you have a link for the wifi, ethernet and chipset drivers?

[iMeowbot]

It requires Nero-- nero has a 'bootable cd' option and it is imperative to making these instructions work. (if someone put it all together and made an image, im sure that could be distributed and burned on a mac)
The current instructions use Nero, but that's not going to be a hard and fast requirement. El Torito discs can be created from a Mac too.

[mrplow]

The current instructions use Nero, but that's not going to be a hard and fast requirement. El Torito discs can be created from a Mac too.

true, but the procedure calls for a boot.img file that nero utilizes when creating it- i don't know of any mac software which does this.. especially since its speifically creating a generic pc bootable disk, something a mac certainly is not


i do agree though, im sure a work around will spring up in the next couple days for people without a PC

[mrplow]

Do you have a link for the wifi, ethernet and chipset drivers?

i did, but seeing as i just formatted my imac to do all this...... i think they were on an osx86 forum so look there if it ever comes back.. or msg me later and i can just send them on aim or something

[AEMV]

Here are the links to a lot of drivers, but the forum is flooded

http://forum.osx86project.org/index.php?showtopic=12185

[ScubaDuc]

its only bad for the user.

ie. viruses, slowness, stupidity, popups..

the casual microsoft windows.


Mmm, if I use window XP without surfing, will I still get viruses and spyware? :confused: I doubt it

If I run Office on or Photoshop on XP, will they be as "slow" as with rosetta since those apps are not UB yet? :confused: I doubt this also

I think having a choice is always good for users and most on this forum are experienced enough to know when and for what to boot into XP