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View Full Version : Does dual booting void the warranty?




Kingsly
Mar 17, 2006, 12:27 AM
I know Apple said they wil do nothing to prevent us from dual booting, but what if I take my MBP to a genius and he boots is, sees the bootloader and says "you've modified you computer, I cant help you"???
Or can he do that?
Basically, how does this fit into AppleCare?
Thanks.



swingerofbirch
Mar 17, 2006, 12:38 AM
I know Apple said they wil do nothing to prevent us from dual booting, but what if I take my MBP to a genius and he boots is, sees the bootloader and says "you've modified you computer, I cant help you"???
Or can he do that?
Basically, how does this fit into AppleCare?
Thanks.
i don't know much about much, but if you're only modifying software, which can always be modified back, common sense would say you're not breaking any rules

then again, common sense doesn't always find it's way into warranties

Kingsly
Mar 17, 2006, 12:38 AM
then again, common sense doesn't always find it's way into warranties
You can say that again.

BlueRevolution
Mar 17, 2006, 12:39 AM
I know Apple said they wil do nothing to prevent us from dual booting, but what if I take my MBP to a genius and he boots is, sees the bootloader and says "you've modified you computer, I cant help you"???
Or can he do that?
Basically, how does this fit into AppleCare?
Thanks.

my guess would be you're treading on thin ice there, but I'm really not sure.

regardless, if you're going to try something drastic and low-level like hacking your Mac to run Windows you surely have a complete backup, right? right?

so you should be able to restore it before taking it in and then the genius won't have anything to quibble about. maybe. I guess.

Marlon_JBT
Mar 17, 2006, 12:45 AM
Not currently, but once Apple Legal gets their collective minds together...

I will NOT be surprised to hear an announcement about the installation of Windows / modifying the contents of the HD voiding your warranty.

BlueRevolution
Mar 17, 2006, 12:57 AM
Not currently, but once Apple Legal gets their collective minds together...

don't make me quote Schiller at you. cuz I will...

MoparShaha
Mar 17, 2006, 01:07 AM
I will NOT be surprised to hear an announcement about the installation of Windows / modifying the contents of the HD voiding your warranty.I'm sorry, but that's not going to happen. Formatting a Mac's hard drive doesn't void the warranty. Neither does installing Linux or any other OS or software. The firmware is not being touched here.

iMeowbot
Mar 17, 2006, 01:16 AM
Apple have been okay with people running alternative operating systems for a long time (Yellow Dog and other Lunices, even their own MkLinux). This really shoudn't be a problem.

If you need service, they may have to insist that the system be restored to the original software. That seems fair enough, most small-computer vendors go that way.

Kingsly
Mar 17, 2006, 01:22 AM
The firmware is not being touched here.
can this be confirmed? Sorry but I am really nervous about the whole thing.

CanadaRAM
Mar 17, 2006, 01:33 AM
As Chuck mentioned in another thread, booting an alternate OS may defeat the monitoring software that controls the CPU speed and fan speed.

If this results in runaway overheating that cooks the machine, I can't see Apple honouring warranty on that.

BlueRevolution
Mar 17, 2006, 01:41 AM
but haven't people been booting PPC builds of Linux on Macs for years without problems? or is my understanding of the situation there somewhat narrow?

Backtothemac
Mar 17, 2006, 01:42 AM
As Chuck mentioned in another thread, booting an alternate OS may defeat the monitoring software that controls the CPU speed and fan speed.

If this results in runaway overheating that cooks the machine, I can't see Apple honouring warranty on that.

Obviously I agree 100% with you on this. I don't know if anyone else has seen the heat difference, but it was massive on my system. To hot to even touch it. If the fans are regulated by the boot efi, and XP doesn't support them, and you fry your laptop or iMac, or Mini. Then I would imagine that Apple would say tough luck. We all know that the G5 iMac's and PowerMac's have fans that are controlled by the OS. Why are we to think that the Intel Macs are any different.

Personally, I can wait. I am amazed by this, however, I can wait.

BlueRevolution
Mar 17, 2006, 01:43 AM
does this mean we'll need to find fan drivers?

wow, welcome to the windows world...

EricNau
Mar 17, 2006, 01:56 AM
Obviously I agree 100% with you on this. I don't know if anyone else has seen the heat difference, but it was massive on my system. To hot to even touch it. If the fans are regulated by the boot efi, and XP doesn't support them, and you fry your laptop or iMac, or Mini. Then I would imagine that Apple would say tough luck. We all know that the G5 iMac's and PowerMac's have fans that are controlled by the OS. Why are we to think that the Intel Macs are any different. ...
But when OS X is incapable of controlling fan speed (e.g. if boot-up fails) the fans kick into their highest mode, so I suspect that if Windows was running the computer, your fans would just run like crazy.

... and even if they didn't, if the system got too hot, the computer automatically shuts itself off before any damage can be done.

Kingsly
Mar 17, 2006, 02:02 AM
Errrr... I think I'll just wait till virtualization!

Backtothemac
Mar 17, 2006, 02:23 AM
But when OS X is incapable of controlling fan speed (e.g. if boot-up fails) the fans kick into their highest mode, so I suspect that if Windows was running the computer, your fans would just run like crazy.

... and even if they didn't, if the system got too hot, the computer automatically shuts itself off before any damage can be done.

Well, this may be true. However, I was sitting on the sofa with a 1/4 in piece of plywood that I have cut into a lap desk. I was sitting there and went, man, I am hot honey, can you bump down the A/C, and then it hit me. I felt the bottom of the wood, and it was hot to the touch. It was then that I noticed that I could see the heat rising in front of the LCD :eek:

That was all it took. I can wait. I have an XP desktop and an XP laptop at my disposal so it isn't urgent for me. Plus, I hate to admit this, but dual booting sucks. VPC has so many advantages over a dual boot setup such as drag and drop etc. Everyone is talking about games. Well, if that is what they want, they are going to have to buy a XP box. Apple uses a UGA graphics solutions, and Windows a VGA. The boot efi that has been modified allows for VGA under Windows, however, the ROM on the X1600 will not support VGA, it is only UGA. So they are tricking the system into displaying 32 BIT high resolutions like 1440 x 900 on the MacBook Pro. However, there is no acceleration, and will not be any unless there is major hacking that will take place. Much more than has already occured. Not to mention, will the x1600 support Direct x? Or is it flashed to support OpenGL? There are so many questions, and frankly, now I know why Apple hasn't opened OS X to boot on any PC. The driver problems would be unreal.

The main reason that Apple is such an attractive platform is because it just works. Well, when you put OS X on any PC or Windows on a Mac, you get muck. It will work, but it is half ass, and half ass isn't good enough for my MacBook Pro :D

Kingsly
Mar 17, 2006, 02:26 AM
*waits patiently for VPC*
So I guess that means no Splinter Cell: Chaos theory, then. Darn.

Backtothemac
Mar 17, 2006, 03:09 AM
*waits patiently for VPC*
So I guess that means no Splinter Cell: Chaos theory, then. Darn.

On Xbox or a PC box. :)

It will happen eventually, but not right now.

balamw
Mar 17, 2006, 08:56 AM
If this results in runaway overheating that cooks the machine, I can't see Apple honouring warranty on that.
One thing that Intel chips have been pretty good at now for a long while is self-preservation. They will generally throttle back performance if the heat gets too much, unlike the old AMD processors seen in the old Tom's Hardware video http://www.metacafe.com/watch/26293/GMAME/.

I am a bit surprised that the fans aren't desigend to be on by default and just turned off by the software as Eric seems to imply was the case for the G5s.

B

MacTT
Mar 17, 2006, 09:02 AM
Is there a way you can delete windows from booting? Haven't read much, but if its possible, it will make it easiser for the warranty problem.

blackcrayon
Mar 17, 2006, 10:11 AM
Is there a way you can delete windows from booting? Haven't read much, but if its possible, it will make it easiser for the warranty problem.

If you have to send in the machine for warranty issues, your best bet is to clone your hard drive anyway, as they aren't responsible for your data (unless you pay an extra fee, etc for them to back it up for you). So once you backup your data, you can wipe the disk and install a plain OS X install, and even reset the firmware, etc with the standard measures (power off, hold power button in then plug in power adapter) etc...

After G
Mar 17, 2006, 11:13 AM
One thing that Intel chips have been pretty good at now for a long while is self-preservation. They will generally throttle back performance if the heat gets too much, unlike the old AMD processors seen in the old Tom's Hardware video http://www.metacafe.com/watch/26293/GMAME/.

I am a bit surprised that the fans aren't desigend to be on by default and just turned off by the software as Eric seems to imply was the case for the G5s.

BAnyone try this with new AMD stuff?

ethernet76
Mar 17, 2006, 12:39 PM
Well, this may be true. However, I was sitting on the sofa with a 1/4 in piece of plywood that I have cut into a lap desk. I was sitting there and went, man, I am hot honey, can you bump down the A/C, and then it hit me. I felt the bottom of the wood, and it was hot to the touch. It was then that I noticed that I could see the heat rising in front of the LCD :eek:

That was all it took. I can wait. I have an XP desktop and an XP laptop at my disposal so it isn't urgent for me. Plus, I hate to admit this, but dual booting sucks. VPC has so many advantages over a dual boot setup such as drag and drop etc. Everyone is talking about games. Well, if that is what they want, they are going to have to buy a XP box. Apple uses a UGA graphics solutions, and Windows a VGA. The boot efi that has been modified allows for VGA under Windows, however, the ROM on the X1600 will not support VGA, it is only UGA. So they are tricking the system into displaying 32 BIT high resolutions like 1440 x 900 on the MacBook Pro. However, there is no acceleration, and will not be any unless there is major hacking that will take place. Much more than has already occured. Not to mention, will the x1600 support Direct x? Or is it flashed to support OpenGL? There are so many questions, and frankly, now I know why Apple hasn't opened OS X to boot on any PC. The driver problems would be unreal.

The main reason that Apple is such an attractive platform is because it just works. Well, when you put OS X on any PC or Windows on a Mac, you get muck. It will work, but it is half ass, and half ass isn't good enough for my MacBook Pro :D

I imagine Direct X is not supported. OpenGL is supported on Windows cards.

Backtothemac
Mar 17, 2006, 12:42 PM
I imagine Direct X is not supported. OpenGL is supported on Windows cards.

It is, but directx prerforms all of the graphic accelerations for the OS and for 99% of the games.

Kingsly
Mar 17, 2006, 12:54 PM
So once you backup your data, you can wipe the disk and install a plain OS X install, and even reset the firmware, etc with the standard measures (power off, hold power button in then plug in power adapter) etc...
...At which point 80% of problems become fixed anyway!:)
Well... PC's are rapidly dropping in price... perhaps I'll just get one for games. :(