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Backtothemac
Mar 17, 2006, 01:15 AM
Well, I installed it on my MacBook Pro. After the install, and getting the wireless working finally! I removed it from the iCurve and went to the sofa. It was so hot that it was pushing the heat through the piece of 1/4 inch plywood that my lap desk is made out of. I could see heat rising in front of the LCD.

Here is the thing. On some Intel boards, the drivers for the board themselves control the speed of the fans, and when they kick on. OR it will be in the bios. Well, there is no bios on these machines.

I STRONGLY encourage everyone to take a second and think about this. The X1600 will probably never work because it is flashed for a Mac Rom. Now, you could probably flash it, but then you would forever have a PC laptop. If you want to run OS X on this, DO NOT flash your rom on your X1600.

Now, XP is fast. Real fast, and that makes me think that the next revision of VPC will be EXTREMELY fast because it will not have to emulate the processors. In addition, it is going to unload the graphics on one of the procs in the core duo systems. No, it will not use the X1600, but hey, there are Mac versions of most of the games, and if not, we always have playstation and Xbox 360.

I just personally cannot risk XP not controling the processor temp, and letting my MacBook cook itself.

Good luck to everyone that does this, I hope it works out for you.

B2TM



freddiecable
Mar 17, 2006, 01:54 AM
after reading some posts about running XP on IntelMac - I think your notion is good - wait until VPC is optimized for IntelMac's - then you can run XP and OSX side by side...

Kingsly
Mar 17, 2006, 02:07 AM
I would have to agree there. I seriously pondered partitioning my HDD. Then I read this thread. Good thing, too! C'mon VPC!

Backtothemac
Mar 17, 2006, 02:16 AM
Well, I am not trying to deminish what has been accomplished. Amazing really. If Apple would create a solution that would allow for dual booting with an license from Microsoft and drive support for the hardware, I think they would sell twice as many Macs as they do now.

AND, I think this is going to force Apple to do just that. There is no reason from a marketing standpoint why they would fail to take advantage of the opportunity that is before them. I would be very disapointed if they do not. We will know what there plans are if Microsoft doesn't patch VPC for the Intel Macs. If they don't then they know Apple will do just what I have described.

whyrichard
Mar 17, 2006, 02:26 AM
so it is true that this method of xp on mac makes the macbook run especially hot? or not? anyone other macbook pro users experience similar things?

thanks,
r.

toneloco2881
Mar 17, 2006, 02:42 AM
AND, I think this is going to force Apple to do just that. There is no reason from a marketing standpoint why they would fail to take advantage of the opportunity that is before them. I would be very disapointed if they do not. We will know what there plans are if Microsoft doesn't patch VPC for the Intel Macs. If they don't then they know Apple will do just what I have described.
As a licensed vendor of Windows, Apple would be obligated to provide technical support, which would be a nightmare! Lest not forget Apple has their own operating system to worry about. Never gonna happen if you ask me.

Someone may come out with a more official solution endorsed by Microsoft, akin to flip4mac, but it won't be Apple.

iMeowbot
Mar 17, 2006, 02:55 AM
The dual-boot stuff really is for early adopters rght now, booting is only the first hurdle. Right now, with people flailing about loading up random drivers from other computers to make things sort of work, it's not going to be a satisfactory system for people who aren't interested in tinkering.

It's only been out for a day or so. Come back to it after the rough edges have been shaken out. It's probably not going to come from a magic set of other-vendor downloads, but from someone with a clue who writes or patches the missing drivers.

BlueRevolution
Mar 17, 2006, 03:24 AM
I fully expect we won't see VPC for Intel Macs for a year or so, but virtualization should be an easy thing when you're running on the processor you're emulating. if we can fake an x86 processor on a ppc faking an x86 on an x86 can't be too hard.

so I fully expect we'll see open source projects springing up for this, hopefully soon.

after that - graphics, then the world!

dual booting is for [insert insult]s.

Rocksaurus
Mar 17, 2006, 03:30 AM
One ray of hope in all of this is ATI's Radeon 9600 Mac and PC Edition. If they can put two BIOSes on one card, they may do it again, in which case we could see a system with video card support for BOTH OSes. How sweet would that be? I think if ATI can realize the potential for it they'll make it, too.

BlueRevolution
Mar 17, 2006, 03:37 AM
where's the potential for them? they're charging half again as much for Mac graphics cards, and designing cards that can work in either system doesn't change that you can only use the card in one system at a time. (hence, same value to users.)

I don't really understand why they even made it in the first place. I mean, it would be nice to have, especially now, but we're talking about capitalism here.

now that you mention it though, that could well be the problem... plugging a Mac graphics card into a PC won't do squat, and that's basically what's going on here.

I wonder what would happen if you pop in an x1600 PC edition card and boot to Windows...

MacRumorUser
Mar 17, 2006, 04:10 AM
I wonder what would happen if you pop in an x1600 PC edition card and boot to Windows...

arent the GPU soldered / integrated onto the motherboard so you couldn't simply pop it out...

kerbawya
Mar 17, 2006, 04:16 AM
Well, I installed it on my MacBook Pro. After the install, and getting the wireless working finally! I removed it from the iCurve and went to the sofa. It was so hot that it was pushing the heat through the piece of 1/4 inch plywood that my lap desk is made out of. I could see heat rising in front of the LCD.This is absolutely true.
My MacBook Pro 2.0Ghz seemed to be running in silent mode when I have XP booted up. Scary for a 2.0GHz dual core to be running quiet actually. DEFINITE increase in heat output... to a concerning extent. No doubt.

I'll be accepting of the accomplishments. And say oh well. A functional MacBook Pro beats an overheated non-functional windows laptop ANY DAY! I'll wait for my UB apps.

InTheBand
Mar 17, 2006, 04:35 AM
[B][SIZE="5"]A functional MacBook Pro beats an overheated non-functional windows laptop ANY DAY!

Is there such a thing as a "functional" miCrapsoft winBlows laptop?! :confused:

I just had to do it... :D

jono_3
Mar 17, 2006, 06:04 AM
after reading some posts about running XP on IntelMac - I think your notion is good - wait until VPC is optimized for IntelMac's - then you can run XP and OSX side by side...

haha lol 13 grand well spent

Tegosaurus
Mar 17, 2006, 06:15 AM
Just wondering: does the Ubuntu live CD have the same problems?
I am still waiting for my MacBook Pro to arrive; ordered it 18th of january, delivery now set for april 4th...

chabig
Mar 17, 2006, 06:21 AM
I fully expect we won't see VPC for Intel Macs for a year or so, but virtualization should be an easy thing when you're running on the processor you're emulating. if we can fake an x86 processor on a ppc faking an x86 on an x86 can't be too hard.
Normally, I'd agree with you. But we're talking about Microsoft, the company that publicly announced that they won't be able to get Vista booting from EFI hardware by the end of this year, yet 2 Californians can get XP (which was never written for EFI) booting in about 1 month. With a record like that, we may never see VPC again!

Chris

ManchesterTrix
Mar 17, 2006, 06:29 AM
I STRONGLY encourage everyone to take a second and think about this. The X1600 will probably never work because it is flashed for a Mac Rom. Now, you could probably flash it, but then you would forever have a PC laptop. If you want to run OS X on this, DO NOT flash your rom on your X1600.


I wouldn't be so sure about this. The different ROM was needed of the endian issues and the like stemming from the PPC, with an Intel setup, there'd be no need for a Mac Rom Video card

Hugh
Mar 17, 2006, 06:50 AM
Well, I installed it on my MacBook Pro. After the install, and getting the wireless working finally! I removed it from the iCurve and went to the sofa. It was so hot that it was pushing the heat through the piece of 1/4 inch plywood that my lap desk is made out of. I could see heat rising in front of the LCD.

Here is the thing. On some Intel boards, the drivers for the board themselves control the speed of the fans, and when they kick on. OR it will be in the bios. Well, there is no bios on these machines.

I STRONGLY encourage everyone to take a second and think about this. The X1600 will probably never work because it is flashed for a Mac Rom. Now, you could probably flash it, but then you would forever have a PC laptop. If you want to run OS X on this, DO NOT flash your rom on your X1600.

Now, XP is fast. Real fast, and that makes me think that the next revision of VPC will be EXTREMELY fast because it will not have to emulate the processors. In addition, it is going to unload the graphics on one of the procs in the core duo systems. No, it will not use the X1600, but hey, there are Mac versions of most of the games, and if not, we always have playstation and Xbox 360.

I just personally cannot risk XP not controling the processor temp, and letting my MacBook cook itself.

Good luck to everyone that does this, I hope it works out for you.

B2TM

I figured that this would happen. There's no drivers to control the fan/s in the iMac and MacBook Pro. Maybe down the road there might, but until then I wouldn't recomend any one actually use XP on their Macs until then.

Hate to see a melted Mac! :D


-Hugh

tdewey
Mar 17, 2006, 06:59 AM
I STRONGLY encourage everyone to take a second and think about this. The X1600 will probably never work because it is flashed for a Mac Rom. Now, you could probably flash it, but then you would forever have a PC laptop.

I think this is a little premature. I expect that within two weeks we'll have functional Mac drivers for the X1600 as well as everything else -- as to the fan issue - I'm sure that can be figured out as well.

VPC or other solutions are going to take months and months.

squirrel77
Mar 17, 2006, 07:09 AM
I think this is a little premature. I expect that within two weeks we'll have functional Mac drivers for the X1600 as well as everything else -- as to the fan issue - I'm sure that can be figured out as well.

VPC or other solutions are going to take months and months.

yeah someone from the open source community will write a driver where at the least you can have the fans on all the time which although might be a bit noisier means your mac doesnt melt. That'll do until some better solution comes along.

anthonymoody
Mar 17, 2006, 08:23 AM
That's what I was thinking - an open source solution that forces the fan to 'on' all the time. It's the quickest, dirtiest solution I can think of - no need for temperature/process monitoring. Just turn the fan on.

TM

ManchesterTrix
Mar 17, 2006, 08:33 AM
I wouldn't be so sure about this. The different ROM was needed of the endian issues and the like stemming from the PPC, with an Intel setup, there'd be no need for a Mac Rom Video card

I was just thinking about this part. If it really had a Mac ROM, we wouldn't even be able to get XP to work on it, no?

yankeefan24
Mar 17, 2006, 08:40 AM
Just a question about fans (as they are mentioned alot here), is there a way to force them to go on in Mac OS X. i can't hear them on my powerbook, and want the temp to go down. its probably on, and just really quiet. But if its not, i really want it on at an earlier temp (i never hear them).

now back to the xp topic

i don't think i will install it if i ever get a MBP or intel mac (hopefully soon). This is a problem that people MUST know about before installing. someone will be using it and not notice it get to 170/180 and then it will start to melt.

Let's hope someone gets the driver soon.

asencif
Mar 17, 2006, 10:12 AM
I think the temperature control is a major issue. Wouldn't want to see a MBP cook. The site would be horrible. :eek:

Anyway, the video card has to have some sort of Mac optimization since the regular ATI PC drivers don't work. While you can use it with generic drivers, there is no harware acceleration and 3D effects that can be used. Someone will get it up and running eventually, although I don't know how well. Maybe different drivers being updated to unlock a certain feature at a time.

I was thinking about the new Intel PM's and since they will have PCI-E, one can probably have two video cards in it and have one be used with one OS and one with the other.

Backtothemac
Mar 17, 2006, 10:46 AM
Well, keep this in mind. They are running this hot, and the graphics card isn't even working yet. Imagine the additional heat that this is going to generate.

RichP
Mar 17, 2006, 10:55 AM
Im working on getting a more definitive answer to the heat issue. My MBP wiht Xp is running hot; then again, in OSX now it is running hot. I am installing Pshop again, once I get that Ill have it run some idiotic resolutions and filters in an attempt to get it to fullspeed fan; my question is, does this XP patch we installed affect OSX in anyway, or its abiltiy to control the system? I would think that if the machine is overheating with XP, the second you boot into OSX the fans are going to come on to cool the thing down, but that doesnt seem the case.

EDIT: As I posted this, I realized that I could hear the MBP fans at full speed from the install.

So: the fans are still under OSX control.
They do run under XP, but not at the needed speed.

This machine already runs so damn hot, its hard to tell exactly what "too hot" is!

Backtothemac
Mar 17, 2006, 10:59 AM
Im working on getting a more definitive answer to the heat issue. My MBP wiht Xp is running hot; then again, in OSX now it is running hot. I am installing Pshop again, once I get that Ill have it run some idiotic resolutions and filters in an attempt to get it to fullspeed fan; my question is, does this XP patch we installed affect OSX in anyway, or its abiltiy to control the system? I would think that if the machine is overheating with XP, the second you boot into OSX the fans are going to come on to cool the thing down, but that doesnt seem the case.

EDIT: As I posted this, I realized that I could hear the MBP fans at full speed from the install.

So: the fans are still under OSX control.
They do run under XP, but not at the needed speed.

This machine already runs so damn hot, its hard to tell exactly what "too hot" is!

I went through that too. OS X was hotter than normal. Now. That I am back to normal, the machine is back to normal. Warm. Not OMG this this is burning me hot.

RichP
Mar 17, 2006, 11:01 AM
Even before this XP thing, there are areas on the strip of metal above the keyboard that ARE OMG this is f'n hot. I have a friend with a infared temp gauyge, I want to measure how hot that suface gets.

mrgreen4242
Mar 17, 2006, 11:03 AM
Well, keep this in mind. They are running this hot, and the graphics card isn't even working yet. Imagine the additional heat that this is going to generate.

The graphics card is WORKING just not well. Your point about the extra heat is well taken, of course.

However, I can't beleive that someone won't be able to hack up a way to AT LEAST kick the fans into full speed mode when Windows boots. Seems like that should be fairly trivial...

Anyways, neat to see all this coming together. I'll be suprised, though, if next year sometime MS doesn't just market Windows Vista:Mac and just bundle an official boot loader with a Vista disc. :P

RichP
Mar 17, 2006, 11:08 AM
Well, I got the machine pretty hot, and the fan speed is increasing, in XP.

Seems like we have control...going to run benchmarks now...

EDIT: Couldnt get SisSoft to run; BUT I am running a CPU burn-in prog right now...

WE HAVE FAN SPEED CONTROL! I run the thing, the fans speed up. Stop the process, they spin down.

I will specify this, however, I am assuming that all the fans are running. It sounds like they are, but there is no way to be certain.

PS: I cant get any temp sensors working with programs that do so.

squirrel77
Mar 17, 2006, 11:09 AM
That's what I was thinking - an open source solution that forces the fan to 'on' all the time. It's the quickest, dirtiest solution I can think of - no need for temperature/process monitoring. Just turn the fan on.

TM

a quick look through google reveals a few forum items with people wanting to overcool their macs.

Looks like the fans turning on and off is tied into processor usage and not set to hardware monitoring. Running temperature monitor on a new macbook pro (my colleagues) reveals only a hard drive temperature monitor (or im going mad) wheras my ibook has loads of sensors :)

Its controlled by darwin but Apple havent released the source code, its binary format only.

http://opendarwin.org/pipermail/discuss/2004-January/005241.html

guess someone would have to reverse engineer that and port it to windows or find some other low level XP utility for speaking to the fans :(

Wonder if this is being discussed on the driver wiki?

HyperX
Mar 17, 2006, 11:09 AM
Has Anyone Tried Notebook Hardware Contol (http://www.pbus-167.com/chc.htm)

I think this may resolve the issue with Fan Control / Heat issues.

squirrel77
Mar 17, 2006, 11:15 AM
Has Anyone Tried Notebook Hardware Contol (http://www.pbus-167.com/chc.htm)

I think this may resolve the issue with Fan Control / Heat issues.

that sounds promising but it might be ok depending on what RichP has said above, the fans ARE kicking in with him.

I guess we need to be careful when we're discussing here to say what kinda mac we have as heat and fan control might be handled differently between macbook pro, imac and mac mini.

RichP
Mar 17, 2006, 11:22 AM
Squirrel, I tried some OSX temp monitors on my MBP and I could grab any fanspeed or temp sensors.

Like I said before, the machine runs so damn hot, its almost hard to tell qualitatively if its running too hot, except when you hear the fans kick on.

It doesnt seem like XP is going to put the machine into meltdown mode, however.

ChrisA
Mar 17, 2006, 11:30 AM
Now, XP is fast. Real fast, and that makes me think that the next revision of VPC will be EXTREMELY fast because it will not have to emulate the processors.

You are exactly right. Win XP boots in _seconds_ when running under an emulator. Much faster then it does runing on the bare hardware. The reason I think is because the host OS caches the boot image and theboot process is not running any code out of ROM or having to wait while real hrdware responcs to "pokes". Win XP has been runing in Intel Macs on an emulator for weeks now. The recent news was the dual boot.

However emulators typically can't access the GPU directly sothey provide only a primitive graphic card for the virtual machine's use. Win XP "thinks" it is running with a plain VGA card. No quite what gammers want.

ChrisA
Mar 17, 2006, 11:51 AM
How many of you al are old enough to remember how they used to cool computers back in the "good old days".?

Basically you'd build a raised floor about a foot above the real floor and install A/C units so that the cold air was directed under the raised floor. So the crawspace was filled with super cold presurized air. Then if some machine needed cooling you'd cut a round hole in the floor under it and supper chiled air would blast up out of the hole
All of the equipment racks had open bottoms and vents on the top so they could be possitioned over tthese holes in the floor. The hole in the floor would be handy for cables too.

For today's MBP users this 1960's technology could be adapted.... Get a big old window mount A/C unit put it uder the desk, cut a hiole in the desktop so that the cold air blast upward...........

Spies
Mar 17, 2006, 05:04 PM
Is SpeedFan not able to adjust the fan speeds in Windows?

Backtothemac
Mar 20, 2006, 03:35 PM
I am back to a dual boot situation for the time being. I had to do it. I have an install that requires network configuration of hardwired access points, and I have to have XP to do it.

I have noticed that XP and OS X both run very hot on the MacBook Pro. Hotter than a PowerBook G4 for sure. However, I noticed that Apple removed the vents from the side of the MacBook Pro that were there for the PowerBook and iBooks.

I can hear what appears to be the fans kicking on in XP, however there is no way to know for sure as I cannot find any program that will allow for monitoring of the fans.

imacintel
Mar 20, 2006, 05:18 PM
Do you think anything would affect the actual imac?

Laslo Panaflex
Mar 20, 2006, 05:34 PM
According to the Wiki devoted to the XP on mac project, the fans are running normally:

http://wiki.onmac.net/index.php/FAQ#Will_my_hardware_overheat_if_I_use_this_patch_to_install_Windows_on_my_Mac.3F

Timepass
Mar 20, 2006, 07:28 PM
well I still trying to figure out from this tread is the fan speed controlled by the Mobo or the OS.

Personally I think it is poor design to allow the OS to have control over the fans. Normally it a mobo lv thing to handle with out input of the OS. The OS can just read the what the sensor are reporting but the OS does not control the fan speed.
Now there is some software for some otherboards that allow of it to take control over the fan speed but only when it is running. if the software part is closed down the mobo takes back over.
If it is the case that the OS is controling the fan speed it could be part of the reason that XP is not doing it. It never was designed for it to handle it. It considered way to critical of a taste to trust any complex OS (and yes OSX is a complex OS) Something could easily go wrong in the OS and fry the hardware.

The most stable operition system are the simple ones. The stuff running the mobo is a very simple OS and not much can go wrong with it so it is the best place to run the critical stuff for the hardware. (fans and what not)

It a huge part of the reason that the BIOS is still around and more than likely not going to die any time soon. It is very very old but it still does it job very well. That is get the hardware up and running, controling things like Fan speeds and basic comincations with the other hardware (and I mean the basics, like read and write to hard drives, Read opical and floppy drives, display basic stuff though the graphic card and other input devices) and the other critical job is get the OS up and running. All the higher leval stuff the OS covers. The BIOS is Basic input and output. EFI for the most case is just a Basic input Output (BIOS) with the ablilty to do a little more opitions. But it should still be a lot like the BIOS. It interface does not need to be look pretty at all just needs to be easy to move around and change settings. The OS is there for all the pretty stuff and advance stuff. EFI only real job is to run the hardware and boot the OS not any more

DeathChill
Mar 20, 2006, 09:03 PM
I believe this is how it works:
The hardware controls the fans (just like every other PC), as well as the fact that the CPU will speedstep down if it gets too hot, but I *BELIEVE* (not 100%) that OS X has built-in controls so that the OS can decide when to cool and when not to as well.

Backtothemac
Mar 20, 2006, 11:01 PM
Well, that was a long 7 hours. My MacBook died. I recieved a Kernal Panic. Upon reboot, I had a flashing question mark. Nothing would work. So, I setup the install disc, rebooted, and went into setup.

Went to disk utilities and partitioned the drive to one. (I decided to stay away from XP again, as this is the 10 or 15th Kernal Panic I have had since doing the dual boot).

Went back to the installer, and it says that I cannot install OS X on the drive. There is only one drive. Repeat the partioning, same thing. Again, same.

So, I returned the MacBook Pro, and *gasp* went back to a PC laptop. Ugly, but dear God is it fast.

Kingsly
Mar 20, 2006, 11:46 PM
Apple took it back? Are you going to get a new one? I shudder to think we lost a Mac User. Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

Backtothemac
Mar 21, 2006, 12:26 AM
Apple took it back? Are you going to get a new one? I shudder to think we lost a Mac User. Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

Oh, I will always be a Mac User. I took it back to Compusa. I have a mini at home, but for now, I am waiting for Rev B.

squirrel77
Mar 21, 2006, 04:24 AM
Oh, I will always be a Mac User. I took it back to Compusa. I have a mini at home, but for now, I am waiting for Rev B.

what was the spec of your macbook pro? The wiki states that a 1.83 version has been running within normal temperatures (admittedly using an infra red thermometer)

can anyone tell me of software that runs on a macbook pro under osX that can be used to monitor temperature and possibly fan activity please?

Kingsly
Mar 21, 2006, 12:05 PM
Oh, I will always be a Mac User. I took it back to Compusa. I have a mini at home, but for now, I am waiting for Rev B.
Whew, that was close. I was about to make an animal sacrifice to bring you back.
Note the the MBP was fine until it got Windows.

Backtothemac
Mar 21, 2006, 12:29 PM
Whew, that was close. I was about to make an animal sacrifice to bring you back.
Note the the MBP was fine until it got Windows.
No, I had issues with the first one. I was getting Kernal Panics. Figured out that it was bad ram, but they persisted after the removal of the ram, but not nearly as often. I exchanged it, and then the second one completely died. Went to sleep and would not startup. Tried to resinstall OS X, but it said that the drive could not be installed to. Tried to partition, and it went through, however, after that, boom. Same thing.

So, I found it to be a little slow, and somewhat buggy. I just personally am going to wait for Rev B, but no, believe me, I will never leave the mac. But my job requires me to work in a Windows world.

Shadow
Mar 21, 2006, 01:31 PM
What was the exact spec of your MacBook Pro? What temprature was it finally running at? LOL @ The MBP was fine until Windows came along. Installing Windows on a Mac defeates the point of having a Mac...

P.S. Thanks for sacrificing your MBP!!

Backtothemac
Mar 21, 2006, 04:17 PM
What was the exact spec of your MacBook Pro? What temprature was it finally running at? LOL @ The MBP was fine until Windows came along. Installing Windows on a Mac defeates the point of having a Mac...

P.S. Thanks for sacrificing your MBP!!
It was a 1.83 with 1GB of Ram. Standard config. I registered it at 106.5 degrees right below the LCD on the bottom.

yellow
Mar 21, 2006, 04:22 PM
For those still hoping for VPC on MacTels:

IMO, it's in doubt. I think Microsoft is waiting to see what happens with dual-boot and (dar)WINE. This would save them $$ on development. Their "official" stance is still:

Q. What does the announcement about Intel-based Macs mean for Virtual PC for Mac?

A. Virtual PC for Mac Version 7 is still the best emulation solution for users who have PowerPC-based Macs, but it does not run on Intel-based Macs. We are working with Apple to determine the feasibility of developing Virtual PC for Mac for Intel-based Macs. Virtual PC for Mac is highly dependent on the operating system and hardware and will require additional development to run on Intel-based Macs.

XIII
Mar 21, 2006, 04:25 PM
For those still hoping for VPC on MacTels:

IMO, it's in doubt. I think Microsoft is waiting to see what happens with dual-boot and (dar)WINE. This would save them $$ on development. Their "official" stance is still:

:(

I am really hoping for a simple Windows in OS X.. at nearly full speed.

wil.johnson
Apr 2, 2006, 02:20 PM
I am really hoping for a simple Windows in OS X.. at nearly full speed.

Same here. I'm a consultant and I have 3 primary contracts that I work. One of them is Windows stuff only, and it is approximately 16 hours a week. But those 16 hours can be ANY hours of the week. As such, I'm currently having to carry 2 notebooks around at all times. This is getting old. VPC on my 17" G4 Powerbook doesn't cut it when you're running M$ Visual Studio .Net. I had to buy a separate Intel/Windows notebook just for this contract.

Lots of people are arguing that you can play the high end games under a VMWare type configuration. Who cares?! I have a Windows box at home that I game on. I do all of my real work on my Mac though. (I primarily do *nix based development for a living, and OS X was the best thing that ever happened to me.)

In my opinion, dual-boot would be nice, but my 2 biggest priorities for Windows on a Mac are:

1) VPC/VMWare at a decent speed.

2) Wine type binary compatibility. I'd really like to be able to run TOAD on my my (near future) Macbook without firing up VMWare or VPC.