PS3 Queries & Concerns - (Xbox or Rev NOT Welcome!!!)

[MacRumorUser]

Getting tired of threads being stolen / taken over with petty squabbles that divert from some sensible thought. So I'm starting a new thread. Please show some maturity (even if your not) and keep the thread on topic...



--- PS3 WILL SELL ----

Sony have sold 100 million ps2's If only a third of users go out and upgrade then thats still 33 million sales. Sony are going to do well regardless.

IF (yes big IF) Ps3 turn's out to be a bit of a turkey, it wont be the Ps3 that will suffer, it will be the ps4. People will be jaded and not bother buying the follow up. That was Segas downfall. After all the DC was a good system, it's a shame it followed a turd...

From game-spot article. The only thing that worries me is that Sony claim they will produce 1 million units a month and will have shipped 6 million units by March 2007.

This makes it sound like there's going to be plenty, but it isn't. Look at it from the reverse side. Working backwards then 6 million from march 2007 @ 1 million per month means that they will only have just over 1 million by November. (remember production ramps up so there will be less yield at the start of production. And remember IBM's track record alone)

Spread over three territories ?? Now way. I feel America & Japan may indeed see the release this year, but still would be surprised if they released in in Europe.

Also just because they say it will be NOW does not mean it is. After all they did say IT WOULD be released in spring..

----- MY CONCERN ------

Also I'm concerned if the HD isn't supplied. Gamespot were vague and if all games require HD to play are they going to market the machine as a DVD/CD/BluRay DVD player with the option of buying an HD to use it as games?

Seems strange, but I guess it's possible.

Sony's marketing can be a little fecked up at times. After all they have been focusing so far (last E3) on how much more power & graphical prowess it would have compared to 360 (yes those fake Killzone vids that they were soon to disclaim as an example of game-play we might see! mmm) , BUT we all know from interviews with developers that give or take the 360 & Ps3 are about the same in power..


--- CHANGE THE MARKETING ----


So does this mean a dead end to marketing down that line, and maybe they are going to concentrate on the main difference between it and competitors which is it's Blu Ray player.... If they do decided to market it on that differential, then I can see the HD been released separately OR as an alternative GAMERS bundle.

So two bundles. A movie Home Entertainment bundle with the ps3 on its own and a GAMERS bundle with the HD included.. This is a very FEASIBLE SNEAKY way of making more money and offsetting some of the guaranteed losses per hardware. It also makes you take the decision and Sony can if criticised come out with some hyperbole about giving it's customers a choice....


--- Any thought's guy's??

[Onizuka]

Personally, I'm thrilled at the prospect of owning this machine. If not alone for some of myu favorite game titles alone.

I'm wondering what version of Linux will be put on the system. Given that there will be Linux, I can't imagine there NOT being a harddrive installed on the machine (detachable or internal) because Linux is quite larger than the average console interface of a couple of screens with options and what not. I wonder if it's an update to the Linux kit that was sold on a limited basis for the PS 2, or if it will be of another "flavor" entirely?

I'm not too concerned about the Linux thing, as I'm not a huge Linux fan to begin with and I'm mainly looking for a console where I can play new versions of the MGS, Ace Combat, and Armored Core games (along with all of the other great titles they have).

My biggest concern is the online abilities. Sure, they say it will have ALL THAT and more of the XBL service, and it will be free, but will it really work? HAve they ironed out the kinks enough from the PS 2 version (AKA, DENY ACCESS TO DIAL UP USERS for games) or will it be filled with lagfests?

As for Blu-ray I can't wait. The technology by itself is more than impressive. I can fit the space of both of my internal Powermac HD's onto 14 bluray discs, which is essentially 74 DVD's, and 592 CD's... If I did the math right... :confused:

[GFLPraxis]

Getting tired of threads being stolen / taken over with petty squables that divert from some sensible thought. So I'm starting a new thread. Please show some maturity (even if your not) and keep the thread on topic...



--- PS3 WILL SELL ----

Sony have sold 100 million ps2's If only a third of users go out and upgrade then thats still 33million sales. Sony are going to do well regardless.

IF (yes big IF) Ps3 turn's out to be a bit of a turkey, it wont be the Ps3 that will suffer, it will be the ps4. People will be jaded and not bother buying the follow up. That was Sega's downfall. Afterall the DC was a good system, it's a shame it followed a turd...

From gamespot article. The only thing that worries me is that Sony claim they will produce 1 million units a month and will have shipped 6 million units by March 2007.

This makes it sound like there's going to be plenty, but it isnt. Look at it from the reverse side. Working backways then 6 million from march 2007 @ 1 miilion per month means that they will only have just over 1 million by November. (remember production ramps up so there will be less yield at the start of production. And remember IBM's track record alone)

Spread over three teritory's ?? Now way. I feel America & Japan may indeed see the release this year, but still would be surprised if they released in in Europe.

Also just because they say it will be NOW does not mean it is. After all they did say IT WOULD be released in spring..


I agree. If we ignore the Revolution (simply because there are too many blank spots and its almost impossible to predict how consumers will view it), the PS3 is guaranteed to dominate Japan and guaranteed to have a good fight in the United States.

I don't believe a simultaneous launch with Europe has been attempted; even the Nintendo DS launched in only North America and Japan at the same time (IIRC!).

----- MY CONCERN ------

Also I'm concerned if the HD isn't supplied. Gamespot were vague and if all games require HD to play are they going to market the machine as a DVD/CD/BluRay DVD player with the option of buying an HD to use it as games?

Seem's strange, but I guess it's possible.

Sony's marketing can be a little fecked up at times. After all they have been focusing so far (last E3) on how much more power & graphical prowess it would have compared to 360 (yes those fake Killzone vids that they were soon to disclaim as an example of gameplay we might see! mmm) , BUT we all know from interviews with developers that give or take the 360 & Ps3 are about the same in power..

That's a confusing point. I've seen several articles that stated that a 60 GB HD was included. GameSpot's says they're not sure if its included or not. However, if you look at Sony's slides, their presentation specificly says,
"60 GB hard drive - upgradeable". That strongly implies that an upgradeable 60 GB hard drive is included, otherwise it'd just say upgradeable hard drive.



--- CHANGE THE MARKETING ----


So does this mean a dead end to marketing down that line, and mybe they are going to concentrate on the main difference between it and competitors which is it's Blu Ray player.... If they do decided to market it on that differential, then I can see the HD been released seperatly OR as an alternative GAMERS bundle.

So two bundles. A movie Home Entertainment bundle with the ps3 on its own and a GAMERS bundle with the HD included.. This is a very FEASABLE SNEAKY way of making more money and offsetting some of the guaranteed losses per hardware. It also makes you take the decision and Sony can if criticised come out with some hyperbole about giving it's customers a choice....


--- Any thought's guy's??

If I were Sony I'd include a Blu-ray disk with every PS3 containing either a ton of HD movie trailers (to whet people's appetites), or one of Sony's pictures (Spider-Man perhaps?) free, or both- AND like twenty game demos (they'll fit on a Blu-ray disk).

I think the HD should be included in every one because it adds so much functionality. Without the hard drive it's a Blu-ray player with a graphics card that sits around idling. The hard drive is required for all games. It's required to use any of the online functions like demo downloads and movie trailer downloads. It's required for media streaming and Linux.


Personally, I can't afford to spend $500+ on a games setup. That's not a PS3 slight. I am appalled by the 360's price as well for a working setup ($400 for the system with actual functionality, $40 for a controller, $60 for a game, $99 for wireless, $50 a year online) and the PS3 looks to be about the same, maybe a tad more for the system but I don't have to pay extra for the wireless so it all events out, and the online is free. (note: please, nobody make this a 360 vs PS3 war)

I will probably get a PS3, but a year or two down the road. I am simply not spending $500-$600 to play a two-player game, no matter what system. However, I am excited by the prospect of the PS3 just for all the functionality that'll actually work with my setup.

People are saying who cares about Linux, but these people are massive ignoramuses. Do you have any idea the amount of software available for Linux? ANYTHING that Sony doesn't put in the PS3, will be enabled by programmers later. Even if Sony only supports network storage and not video streaming, guess what, I have VLC on all my computers (Mac, Windows, Linux) and can put that on the PS3 and stream video. I can put VNC on the PS3 and control my PC. I can access all my other computers over the network through the PS3, with a bluetooth mouse and keyboard in my room, over the network. I can store videos from my overcrowded PC to the PS3. I'm not a big media-obsessed person and wouldn't buy a system just for that (or I would have bought a media streamer already), but since I'm already a big fan of the Kingdom Hearts and Burnout series (not available on Nintendo's platform) I would love to get a PS3, and all those bonuses are very nice advantage.

Linux is *definitely* the most exciting prospect. Media streaming is fine, the 360 has that too (with Windows Media Center which I don't have). Media storage is fine, 360 has that too. But Linux will be awesome.

However, like I said, a year or two down the road. Maybe more. In addition to being too expensive, I have no HDTV.

[Abulia]

The triple release and multiple SKUs (if true) strike me as mistakes. Even the figures that Sony have released on anticipated production point to danger signs of widespread shortage.

We can have a discussion on the 360 "hype" and if the shortage/multiple SKUs were a good thing or bad thing, but in the end I think it hurt more than it helped. It really seems like Sony -- after only last week stating that the PS3 would be in the "spring" -- is tripping over themselves to state a date for no other purpose than to hold themselves accountable.

In short, the 360 launch was something of a debacle and it strikes me as strange that a savvy company like Sony would choose to follow the same path.

[Motley]

I don't care until they show off an actual box (not a concept design) running games realtime (not renders) with nailed down specs. There's too much hype and not enough concrete info for me, which is curious at this point in the game. Sony has always been full of it when it comes to hyping thier consoles.

I also don't think most people will be able to get one until many months after the release. It'll make the XBox360 s launch availability look downright generous.

Currently when it comes to Blu-Ray I think of laserdisks. DVDs had a lot over VHS, I don't see Blu-Ray having the same impact, for most DVDs are good enough.

People who come here should have a good grasp of expectations versus reality (though you wouldn't know it from the posts immediately after "fun" announcements)

Then again I tend to error on the side of cynicism. Get let down a lot less.

I also seem to be in a minority in thinking the Revolution won't be the end all saviour of the video game industry, and I like Nintendo.

[GFLPraxis]

I'm wonder if Sony will show anything at GDC?

[Onizuka]

I don't care until they show off an actual box (not a concept design) running games realtime (not renders) with nailed down specs. There's too much hype and not enough concrete info for me, which is curious at this point in the game. Sony has always been full of it when it comes to hyping thier consoles.


Actually, they HAVE shown real-time demos of various games. MGS 4 was rendered completely in real time when they showed it live, and it was very impressive (better than anything we've seen on the 360 so far.)

As for a release catastrophy, I think you're wrong. Looking at it this way: The main boards will be Manufactured in June, which gives them almsot 6 months to build completed units and ship them. That's not a bad time line at all, considering they could MFG each board and assemble them inside the cases and test each one... It gives them a LONG time to get these units pumped out.

Considering MS was still putting units together for the Initial launch, during the initial launch, Sony has more than enough time, I wouldn't worry.

The official specs have been released, but no info on included software and such...

[Haoshiro]

I agree with some of the other posters on waiting to see what the system really is. I've been witness to too many Sony marketing hyperbole to believe anything for certain until it's officially shown as Final Hardware. PS2 was supposed to be much more powerful and have many more features then the final product ended up having.

As for the "real time" demos they showed (such as MGS4) it's important to realize that since final hardware doesn't exist, and Sony has stated final dev kits won't be out until June, that any "real time" footage is theoretical. It's not running on actual PS3 hardware but rather what the developers expect the hardware to be capable of.

Also, the creator of MGS, Hideo Kojima has stated that the real-time MGS4 demo could have run on the Xbox 360 (http://www.joystiq.com/2005/11/16/kojima-mgs4-demo-could-run-on-the-xbox-360/) which I find interesting.

I look forward to seeing it and I look forward to one day being able to play a game that looks as good as the Killzone video they showed at the PS3 press conference. I don't personally care what system that happens on because it will eventually be capable on all systems either this current next-gen (360/PS3/Rev) or the next...

PS2 tempted me with being able to play PS1 games but did not succeed to sway into a purchase; PS3 tempts me even more because I missed out on almost every PS2 game, PLUS it can do PS1 as well... but I'm still not sold and probably won't get one. If I do, not for several years.

[MacRumorUser]

Actually, they HAVE shown real-time demos of various games. MGS 4 was rendered completely in real time when they showed it live, and it was very impressive (better than anything we've seen on the 360 so far.)

As for a release catastrophy, I think you're wrong. Looking at it this way: The main boards will be Manufactured in June, which gives them almsot 6 months to build completed units and ship them. That's not a bad time line at all, considering they could MFG each board and assemble them inside the cases and test each one... It gives them a LONG time to get these units pumped out.

Considering MS was still putting units together for the Initial launch, during the initial launch, Sony has more than enough time, I wouldn't worry.

The official specs have been released, but no info on included software and such...

But MGS4 wasn't a gameplay demo, it was a realitme engine demo more or less what they suspect ps3 to be, and therefore not the perfect example of realtime gameplay (as yet...) We'll have to wait till E3 in May..

But as I say in my first post, doing the math that they will have 6 million units shipped by March 2007. and will be producing 1 million per month. Subtract 6 months from March 2007 and your left with october/november. That would mean only around 1 million (2 million very tops).....

There's nothing wrong with over ambition, but I just think come october, were going to have another backtrack statement. At least as far as Europe is concerned...


I've been witness to too many Sony marketing hyperbole to believe anything for certain..

PS2 tempted me with being able to play PS1 games but did not succeed to sway into a purchase; PS3 tempts me even more because I missed out on almost every PS2 game, PLUS it can do PS1 as well... but I'm still not sold and probably won't get one. If I do, not for several years.

Yep that's why I'm wondering if their Marketing dept are going to come out with somthing different, after all Game wise it's not much different to the competition in prowess..

But can you still get ps1 games??? Really not that bothered in backwards compatability. €500 to play a game that I can play on a system for €30-40 second had... Not worth it..

[Abulia]

Actually, they HAVE shown real-time demos of various games. MGS 4 was rendered completely in real time when they showed it live, and it was very impressive (better than anything we've seen on the 360 so far.)Hey MacRumorUser, does your cease fire apply to over-zealous PS3 backers, 'cause I feel the need to counter this comment.As for a release catastrophy, I think you're wrong.No one said "catastrophy" so ease up and take off the rose-colored goggles. We're trying to have a civil discussion here and your hyperbole isn't helping.

[Haoshiro]

I just don't like to have a ton of systems hooked up. I prefer to replace rather then cumulate so BC works for me.

I was never a fan of Sony systems and honestly didn't consider most of the games very good (even many of the very popular ones). That said, there are a handful of PS1 I love and several PS2 games I almost bought the system for. Xenogears for PS1, and the Xenosaga series on PS2 are some of these.

I'm also intrigued by the co-op/lan possibilities of the PS3. I mostly by multiplayer games and love to invite a bunch of people to game on the couch and TV. The possibility that I may be able to hook the system up and play multiplayer games on two TVs, possibly even with 8 players would definitely be awesome. That may not end up possible and even if it is it may never happen...

[MacRumorUser]

Hey MacRumorUser, does your cease fire apply to over-zealous PS3 backers, 'cause I feel the need to counter this comment.No one said "catastrophy" so ease up and take off the rose-colored goggles. We're trying to have a civil discussion here and your hyperbole isn't helping.

Not worth going there mate! Just post your reasons / thoughts as best you can to counter claim :)

I just don't like to have a ton of systems hooked up. I prefer to replace rather then cumulate so BC works for me.

Fair enough :)

[GFLPraxis]

Onizuka, FYI, while MGS4 was rendered in real time, you must also remember that it was entirely scripted. When it's scripted, the path of objects and all movement has already been determined, and thus it takes FAR less calculations to do things, which is why scripted scenes aren't a good measurement of performance.

However, the MGS4 demo is not unreasonable. It's basicly the same stuff we've seen on 360 demos with maybe a slightly higher polygon count. Look at some of the bad textures on the wall. Hideo said it could run on the 360.

In fact, from the reading I've done, the PS3 and 360's GPU's are capable of the exact same hardware functions and effects and rendering techniques, and the only difference is the PS3 has a bit more power (aka, higher polygon count). When the games come out, it's very possible that you won't be able to see a visible difference between the PS3 and 360 (unless you learn to count polygons by hand) graphics.

Sony wants us to think that the Cell is so powerful that it can do physics calculations far beyond the 360 and thus even though the visuals will only be slightly better it will still be able to do so much more (every leaf in a tornado having its own sound channel, for example). I'm curious to see how much it can do. But don't expect a massive, visible difference between screenshots of 360 and PS3 games.

[Abulia]

Not worth going their mate! Just post your reasons / thoughts as best you can to counter claim :)Roger that. :) How about the ignore button? ;)

[DrNeroCF]

Don't tell me that the ps2 and ps3 will sell for the same reasons. The only thing they share is the name. Other than that they are complete opposites. ps3's coming out last, supposed to be the most powerful, has a controller that looks like stupid, and will be really, really expensive.

Add to that the fact that being the most powerful doesn't really do it much good (all those videos of MGS could have been done on the 360 at a slightly lower resolution), and I don't see this thing getting any mainstream success.

Oh, and lets not forget that half the people bought the ps2 for dvd playback, which is useful, unlike blu-ray (seriously, explain to the average consumer what the difference is, chances are, they own a vcr/dvd combo machine that's not even hooked up through component video cables.

Fine, I won't jack your thread and go into detail why the other two systems will be better off, but they're doing everything that the ps1 and ps2 did to succeed save for dvd, and the ps3's doing everything that got Nintendo and M$ fighting for second.

[Abulia]

Here's an interesting article on CNNMoney (http://money.cnn.com/2006/03/17/technology/ballmer_fortune/index.htm?cnn=yes) on the PS3 delay and the potential for Microsoft.
"In every other generation, the first guy to 10 million consoles was the number one seller in the generation," Ballmer told FORTUNE in an interview on Thursday afternoon. "Did we just get an even better opportunity to be the first guy to 10 million? Yeah, of course we did."
There is still a production bottleneck because of problems with a component vendor, whom Ballmer declined to name, but he expects Microsoft to sell 5 million systems by June. "We're sort-of on track," he says, "though it would've been nice at Christmas to have one for everyone who wanted one."

[MacRumorUser]

Oh, and lets not forget that half the people bought the ps2 for dvd playback, which is useful, unlike blu-ray (seriously, explain to the average consumer what the difference is, chances are, they own a vcr/dvd combo machine that's not even hooked up through component video cables.


This is very true. This persuades me more than anything that they will release a Gamerpack which includes the 60gb HD (required for gaming) and a seperate movie pack without the HD. Giving away a 60gb HD to people who may never ever use it is cutting their own nose off to spite their face....

As for format wars.. Agree with you about average joe blog.

The FORMAT (HDDVD & BluRay) battle hasn't even begun and what is surprising is that were assuming that one of them will be triumphant. Having seen a fairamount of movie trailers in HD 720p & 1080p surprisingly to me it wasnt such a huge leap as Video to DVD was, and persuading the general public to part with $500-800 upwards for a slightly better version might not persuade the majority of buyers. Most homes still dont have a TV set to view HD in yet (excluding us gadget geeks) and persuading average joe that he's going to part with a lot of money on what may seem as unecessary pricey hardware might be a harder task.

Neither May Win - an example of this recently happening?

Look at MiniDisc & Philips DCC - both brought out to replace cassette, even though minidisc won the battle, Cassette tape still won that war - Hey overall in fact MP3 won the bigger war - a format no one knew of and one that reduces quality not improves it - the opposite of HD-DVD & BLU-RAY. With more portable video devices coming out, it's decent reduction in quality that's probably going to be the future - not either of the HD DVD formats?

Added to the fact that China has been given the go ahead to develop a Third HD DVD format, from the DVD Forum, so its even more a shade of grey :confused: :confused:

Here's an interesting article on CNNMoney on the PS3 delay and the potential for Microsoft.

Intersting Article Don. Very true at the end about the fact that the first year regardless of the HD format will be rather unimpressive content wise.

[Abulia]

Intersting Article Don. Very true at the end about the fact that the first year regardless of the HD format will be rather unimpressive content wise.Yea, I remember being an early adopter of the music CD and later the DVD. I had like two DVDs, one of them "Tomorrow Never Dies." Hey, I love the movie, but having a DVD player and little to play on it gets old real quick. ;)

Interestingly Sony did it again later with the rival format to DVD-Audio (DVD-A), the Super Audio CD (SACD). While dual players from Pioneer are now available, neither format has really caught on. Both formats have superior music quality but an extremely limited selection.

Curse you Sony and your competing formats, curse you! ;)

[GFLPraxis]

I don't know why, but that picture of Ballmer in Don M.'s CNN money link just cracks me up.

I think I've watched the Monkey Boy video too many times :D

[MacRumorUser]

I don't know why, but that picture of Ballmer in Don M.'s CNN money link just cracks me up.

I think I've watched the Monkey Boy video too many times :D

LOL! We should all get out more ;)

[Onizuka]

Onizuka, FYI, while MGS4 was rendered in real time, you must also remember that it was entirely scripted. When it's scripted, the path of objects and all movement has already been determined, and thus it takes FAR less calculations to do things, which is why scripted scenes aren't a good measurement of performance.

However, the MGS4 demo is not unreasonable. It's basicly the same stuff we've seen on 360 demos with maybe a slightly higher polygon count. Look at some of the bad textures on the wall. Hideo said it could run on the 360.

In fact, from the reading I've done, the PS3 and 360's GPU's are capable of the exact same hardware functions and effects and rendering techniques, and the only difference is the PS3 has a bit more power (aka, higher polygon count). When the games come out, it's very possible that you won't be able to see a visible difference between the PS3 and 360 (unless you learn to count polygons by hand) graphics.

Sony wants us to think that the Cell is so powerful that it can do physics calculations far beyond the 360 and thus even though the visuals will only be slightly better it will still be able to do so much more (every leaf in a tornado having its own sound channel, for example). I'm curious to see how much it can do. But don't expect a massive, visible difference between screenshots of 360 and PS3 games.

Interesting post. No, really, I'm not being sarcastic, that is interesting.

I think the Cell is awesome simply because of the Possibilities in its use of every day life (if they haven't changed since 5 years ago, which is to integrate all entertainment componants together for a harmony within the home).

I don't believe that the PS3 will be better as far as graphics, what i'm truly concerned about are my favorite titles and NOT having to play them on another system. MGS and the Armored Core series is the main title for the conosle (like Halo and DOA was for Xbox).

As far as I know, the PS 3 and 360 both run on PowerPC Architectures. I could be wrong, but I thought I had read that.

I think the prospects of the user-interface, and possibly the usefulness of Linux being a media streamer (more so than what the 360 can do with Macs) more than make up for the negative possibilites.

As you said though, we'll have to see.

[raggedjimmi]

PS3 Queries & Concerns - (Xbox or Rev NOT Welcome!!!)

way to keep the 360 out folks! :)

[GFLPraxis]

Interesting post. No, really, I'm not being sarcastic, that is interesting.

I think the Cell is awesome simply because of the Possibilities in its use of every day life (if they haven't changed since 5 years ago, which is to integrate all entertainment componants together for a harmony within the home).

I don't believe that the PS3 will be better as far as graphics, what i'm truly concerned about are my favorite titles and NOT having to play them on another system. MGS and the Armored Core series is the main title for the conosle (like Halo and DOA was for Xbox).

As far as I know, the PS 3 and 360 both run on PowerPC Architectures. I could be wrong, but I thought I had read that.

I think the prospects of the user-interface, and possibly the usefulness of Linux being a media streamer (more so than what the 360 can do with Macs) more than make up for the negative possibilites.

As you said though, we'll have to see.


The Cell is one PowerPC processor with eight sub-processors optimized for certain types of work attached- the XBox 360 is three of the same PowerPC processors found in the cell with none of the sub-processors.

I fully agree, I feel that Linux is one of the strongest points on the system as it means third parties and individuals can GREATLY expand on the system's capabilities.

I'm not really sure what you mean at all about the Cell integrating entertainment components together. When I think about Cell, I think about a processor that is extremely good at non-branch-intensive floating point calculations and thus extremely good with rendering video and graphics, and may be very good for physics once developers get the hang of it, but not good for regular usage. It's just a very well optimized processor that does certain things very well and other things (not necessary to the PS3) very badly.

Oh yes, I'm sure you want a source for what I said about the graphics.

http://games.kikizo.com/news/200602/065_p1.asp


And this is a key point; while it's clearly struggling to achieve Full HD without heavy compromises, something that PS3 does better than Xbox 360, most straightforwardly, is 'more stuff simultaneously'. An impressive list of simultaneous, wonderfully shaded, dynamic visual effects was evident, but PS3 was also able to throw around tonnes of geometry in terms of realtime 'explosion' calculation - and convincingly affect dozens of objects all at the same time.

The development source concurs: "Unlike Xbox and PS2, where Xbox had a host of built-in effects that were a generation ahead of PS2, the Xbox 360 and PS3 are same-generation machines. One doesn't have additional effects over the other - 360 can do the same effects, just not as many of them simultaneously and with less geometry [because of the speed difference], but memory bottlenecks can kill part of the PS3 speed advantage anyway... the overall visual difference it makes will depend a lot on the developer's skill, and how much time and money the publisher spends on a game."

The hands-on evidence is beginning to mount up. We're talking about a machine barely superior to Xbox 360 - not by any significant margin. It's certainly obvious this machine is not "twice" as powerful as 360, let alone a generational leap ahead. But the gap could become bigger: "Realistically, as libraries and experience with both machines grow, I think the PS3 will start showing things the 360 will choke at," offers the source. "But Sony will have to make available to us libraries and new routines for that to happen - something they've been severely lacking at so far."
....

Everyone knows that the Killzone trailer was rendered to reflect what the developer thought they might be able to achieve on PS3 architecture, but some of Sony's most talented studios will be questioning the ambition they showed nine months ago. In hindsight, there was some stuff that looked decidedly more like what we've been playing now - UbiSoft's Killing Day seeming like it was a good, honest estimate. Rewatch that below, and consider this is comparable to the technical visual quality of what we've played, and you'll likely conclude that this is, for now at least, really same-generation stuff next to Xbox 360.


We'd previously seen PlayStation 3 in "realtime" action in three demonstrations - the stunning Metal Gear Solid 4 trailer taken into a simulation to show off game engine and graphics, Sonic the Hedgehog's realtime demo at TGS, and also a realtime demo of Sega's Fifth Phantom Saga, also at TGS (all available to watch below). Based on what we've now played for ourselves, we can answer a question we all asked back at E3 2005. Does PS3 really look like the Killzone trailer? No way. Does it look like Metal Gear Solid 4? Sure, near enough, although now that it's on near-final hardware, things just need a little polishing to look as complete as what was shown by Kojima-san in September.

What we played was still extremely early, but we've been able to build a healthier picture of things. Another point of reference is the aforementioned Fifth Phantom Saga realtime demo from TGS, which we daresay is a slightly more honest representation of today's exact PS3 graphics status, and closer to current playable content than anything fuelling PS3's notoriety since E3 last year.

The difference in physics, detail and scene complexity between the Killzone or MotorStorm trailers and MGS4's realtime demo is quite severely obvious, and it's now abundantly clear to us that everyone's early PS3 gaming experiences will be a whole lot more like the latter, but that's not exactly a bad thing. We'll have dynamic range and depth of field optics, maybe even a 'solid' sixty frames. But MGS4 stands on its own as the single most impressive thing anyone has seen on a sufficiently convincingly box to date. Based on what we've seen and played, launch software will look like nice Xbox 360 material - Dead or Alive 4, Gears of War. The main issue now is when is this "launch" actually going to happen?




They also note that 1080p support is not mandatory and in all likelyhood most games won't be running at it.

[MacRumorUser]

They also note that 1080p support is not mandatory and in all likelyhood most games won't be running at it.

Let alone the dual display idea... I bet that get's dropped. How many people have two HDTV's next to each other?

[GFLPraxis]

Well, there are still uses. I imagine perhaps multiplayer games could run in dual 720i (720p at most, 480p at minimum) on only one system- Linux could use both at 1080p, nice for slideshows or, I dunno, playing a movie while surfing the web.

And 1080p could run on both screens perhaps if the second screen simply gave stats on an online game, but that would be quite a waste of a second screen.

I can see dual output uses, but yeah, dual 1080p is rarely going to be used if ever by developers.

[MacRumorUser]

Well, there are still uses. I imagine perhaps multiplayer games could run in dual 720i (720p at most, 480p at minimum) on only one system- Linux could use both at 1080p, nice for slideshows or, I dunno, playing a movie while surfing the web.

And 1080p could run on both screens perhaps if the second screen simply gave stats on an online game, but that would be quite a waste of a second screen.

I can see dual output uses, but yeah, dual 1080p is rarely going to be used if ever by developers.

Linux could be interesting, but i'n not convinced that anyone other than techies like ourselves would be that interested in experimenting..

I'm wondering how having Linux installed effects the VAT rate in Europe when it comes to retail. It could add an hidden cost as I belive the VAT rate would be more as it changes the use / classification of the machine .....

[GFLPraxis]

Linux could be interesting, but i'n not convinced that anyone other than techies like ourselves would be that interested in experimenting..

I'm wondering how having Linux installed effects the VAT rate in Europe when it comes to retail. It could add an hidden cost as I belive the VAT rate would be more as it changes the use / classification of the machine .....

Actually, since they sell it as a computer and not a game machine, Sony gets a discount on tax for it. I think that's why Sony keeps calling it a computer.

[MacRumorUser]

Actually, since they sell it as a computer and not a game machine, Sony gets a discount on tax for it. I think that's why Sony keeps calling it a computer.

I knew it was one way or the other ;) just got it backway's :)

[Onizuka]

Well, we're not sure yet, but Linux COULD possibly be the main OS of the system itself, that is, what boots initially. So the GUI ontop could be a guideline for future development from third parties (think a nice Blue/black interface on VLC).

GFL: Years ago, right when the PS 2 was released there was talk in magazines of how the PS 2 could not be sold in certain countries because the chips could be used for missile guidance, and then the topic came up that the CELL processor that Sony/IBM were working on could be put in anything, from TV's to consoles to DVD players, and if Sony made them, appliances. This would give the user ultimate control of their entertainment rigs should they have an ALL Sony entertainment system (which, I don't think anyone does). I suppose at that stage it may have all been hypothetical thinking, a developmental part of the drawing board...

When I say Linux isn't a big deal for me, it's because it isn't. It's a nice feature, and I'm sure I will use it for SOME things, but it's not a primary focus as to my desire to own one. I'm sure more people could put it to REAL use and make something incredible out of it...

[Uma888]

Im on the fence with the PS3.

Ill wait until the Blue Ray/HD-DVD war is over.

Just say HD-DVD wins? what happens to sony? (and apple)

I like the design, and core configuration of the PS3.

Linux would be awesome, this means a Keyboard + Moruse will soon be available, or people can just use normal USB ones. with the addition of a mediacentre/mediaserver, this will replace many media streamers on the market.


I hope all the hardware has been finalised.

I hope we see some PLAYABLE CODE at this years E3.

I hope sony redesign the pads, those boomarang pads are awefull.

I will not NOT be buying one until i see the reason to. e.g i bought the xbox cause i had been following the developement of Halo on the PC.

At the moment i have NO reason to purchase the PS3. Devil May Cry seems like a re-run with slick graphics, the FF series dont appeal to me. MGS might be a multiplatform game.

[GFLPraxis]

GFL: Years ago, right when the PS 2 was released there was talk in magazines of how the PS 2 could not be sold in certain countries because the chips could be used for missile guidance, and then the topic came up that the CELL processor that Sony/IBM were working on could be put in anything, from TV's to consoles to DVD players, and if Sony made them, appliances. This would give the user ultimate control of their entertainment rigs should they have an ALL Sony entertainment system (which, I don't think anyone does). I suppose at that stage it may have all been hypothetical thinking, a developmental part of the drawing board...


See, that right there is what doesn't make much sense to me.

Like you said about that magazine talk- Sony spread all kinds of rumors about how the PS2 was so powerful it could be used for missle guidance and could outperform supercomputers and even that one science institution was buying hundreds of PS2's to make an Emotion Engine supercomputer cluster. This was all to gain hype.

I suspect the same of the Cell...

I still don't get it. If everything in your entertainment center has a Cell, what difference would it make? It's just a processor. Interaction is dependent on SOFTWARE.

[GFLPraxis]

Ill wait until the Blue Ray/HD-DVD war is over.

Just say HD-DVD wins? what happens to sony? (and apple)

I like the design, and core configuration of the PS3.



If HD-DVD wins, Sony will have a huge problem on their hand- they will be unable to lower the production costs of Blu-ray significantly and the PS3 will remain much more expensive than the 360 through it's life span.

Apple won't have a problem at all. They're not devoted to Blu-ray or anything. They've announced that they'll SUPPORT it (meaning Macs can use Blu-ray drives) but they're also part of the DVD Forum which supports HD-DVD (so Macs will support HD-DVD drives too).


I hope we see some PLAYABLE CODE at this years E3.

Me too. I'm trying to get in to E3.

[MacRumorUser]

Me too. I'm trying to get in to E3.

Can you get me in? Pay for my flight and accommodation? If not! I'm gonna sulk :( :D ... seriously would love to go though... Will do it one of these years..


Your right about apple, all they have said is they'll support it. They haven't said they will be 100% shipping all machines with blu ray at all. They're too clever to pledge to somthing like that.

[GFLPraxis]

Can you get me in? Pay for my flight and accommodation? If not! I'm gonna sulk :( :D ... seriously would love to go though... Will do it one of these years..


Heh, well, as we're running NintendoPlayers, we're trying to get in as Media (you don't get in to the conferences without paying extra for some or being invited for others, but you get in to the actual Expo for free and six hours before everyone else). :D Plus discounts on accomodation and flight...

[MacRumorUser]

Heh, well, as we're running NintendoPlayers, we're trying to get in as Media (you don't get in to the conferences without paying extra for some or being invited for others, but you get in to the actual Expo for free and six hours before everyone else). :D Plus discounts on accomodation and flight...

Damn! :) Bloody media ;) Any vacancies going? I got a Q does that automatically get me in? :D

Should be a good one this year. Second wave of 360 titles, PS3 footage & hopefuly actual on floor gameplay and Revolution all at one event....

[GFLPraxis]

Damn! :) Bloody media ;) Any vacancies going? I got a Q does that automatically get me in? :D

Should be a good one this year. Second wave of 360 titles, PS3 footage & hopefuly actual on floor gameplay and Revolution all at one event....


Requirements:

Freelance Journalists:
Please note: Freelance writers from unqualified media outlets will not be admitted. Qualification of all media outlets will be determined by the E3 2006 Media Registration staff.

To qualify as online media, provide:

* A copy of your driver’s license or government issued photo identification clearly showing your name and date of birth (no one under 18 will be admitted), AND
* A copy of your business card with name, editorial title and media outlet's logo, AND
* A PRINTED copy of your online publication with your name and title appearing in an editorial capacity, including a bylined interactive entertainment industry-related article from your publication written by you and published within the last six months (the copy must clearly show the name of the publication and your byline), AND
* A copy of the Web site's business license or government issued documentation showing the business's federal tax identification number.
* Please note: The name on your business card and your photo identification must match to be accepted.


We have an Employer Identification Number from the IRS...that should qualify us if we provide the driver's license, article written, and business card.

The editor-in-chief already applied the other day I think so we'll see what they say (1-4 business days for a response).

If we get to go in early I'm not sure what I'll do first...probably Revolution, but then again PS3 might have the longest line. Zelda had the six hour line last year, and I want to go to whatever will have the longest line first...

Also, I actually think it might be three hours ahead, not six, but whatever. :)

I wonder what games Sony will h ave up?

[MacRumorUser]

I wonder what games Sony will h ave up?

Who knows ? :) Your gonna have a blast though. You'll have to let us know if you get in and if you do - take a laptop, we need to be kept informed from the inside :D

[GFLPraxis]

But of course :D I really hope I do. If I don't I shall be most depressed. Also- they apparently have media rooms full of PC's and Macs IIRC for webmasters to give updates from.
The E3 2006 Media Center offers convenient support for journalists covering the show free of charge. It features a large working newsroom equipped with:

* Mac and PC computers
* High-speed Internet access
* Wi-Fi network access
* Standard office equipment
* Telephones
* Fax machines
* Photocopy machines
* Exhibitors’ media kits

[2nyRiggz]

Started a PS3 thread without me huh.....oh well. All i can say is i can't wait for the powerhouse to come through.

My Top Games: Silent Hill5, MGS4, KillZone2, Alan Wake, War Hawk, Devil May Cry4

Bless

[raggedjimmi]

Well, we're not sure yet, but Linux COULD possibly be the main OS of the system itself, that is, what boots initially. So the GUI ontop could be a guideline for future development from third parties (think a nice Blue/black interface on VLC).

I dunno. I can't see Linux as the main OS. The main entrance GUI will be something very simple. Like what the DS has. Play a game, connect to network game etc. Linux will probably be an option on the entrance GUI that will probably have a "go to linux automatically" option too.

... Is linux big in Japan? It just seems such a western thing.

[Haoshiro]

I think you might be a bit confused as to what Linux is...

There is no reason they wouldn't use Linux as the primary OS; it'd be better then building their own. The GUI would run on top of Linux. Nobody really even needs to know that Linux is there. Could you tell some Dreamcast games were running on Windows CE?

In the end the fact that it runs Linux means nothing except to make the techies impressed and give the overall impression that it will be "stable" and "secure"

Again, it won't make a difference to the end user, they won't see it unless Sony wants them to... and that is unlikely. Everything could look like the Xbox 360 Guide and you would have no idea Linux was powering it underneath. ;)

[Onizuka]

I think you might be a bit confused as to what Linux is...

There is no reason they wouldn't use Linux as the primary OS; it'd be better then building their own. The GUI would run on top of Linux. Nobody really even needs to know that Linux is there. Could you tell some Dreamcast games were running on Windows CE?

In the end the fact that it runs Linux means nothing except to make the techies impressed and give the overall impression that it will be "stable" and "secure"

Again, it won't make a difference to the end user, they won't see it unless Sony wants them to... and that is unlikely. Everything could look like the Xbox 360 Guide and you would have no idea Linux was powering it underneath. ;)

That is a possibility, but given Sony's history with the Linux kits, this is doubtful. They probably will make it an extensible interface for the sake of making applications and what not available to the end user.

But you may be right. Linux could give a "cluttered" look to it if they actually get to browse the system files. We'll just have to see.

I do know, by handling the PSP, that I would like that kind of interface. It's so simple and clean and just what a gaming console could use.

[GFLPraxis]

I think you might be a bit confused as to what Linux is...

There is no reason they wouldn't use Linux as the primary OS; it'd be better then building their own. The GUI would run on top of Linux. Nobody really even needs to know that Linux is there. Could you tell some Dreamcast games were running on Windows CE?

In the end the fact that it runs Linux means nothing except to make the techies impressed and give the overall impression that it will be "stable" and "secure"

Again, it won't make a difference to the end user, they won't see it unless Sony wants them to... and that is unlikely. Everything could look like the Xbox 360 Guide and you would have no idea Linux was powering it underneath. ;)

Well, Sony has said it can BOOT Linux.

It may *also* run Linux underneath. I imagine it will work like a regular game console, plus give you the option to start Linux up as a full OS.

One of Sony's PS3 trailers even showed a split second screenshot of a Linux desktop.

However, from what Sony's said I'm pretty sure the Linux desktop is an option, not the first thing it boots.

[DrNeroCF]

Started a PS3 thread without me huh.....oh well. All i can say is i can't wait for the powerhouse to come through.

My Top Games: Silent Hill5, MGS4, KillZone2, Alan Wake, War Hawk, Devil May Cry4

Bless

See, the problem with starting a ps3 only thread is that we know even less about this thing than we do about the Revolution. Everything that we do know, we've already talked about during the snes, n64, Dreamcast, ps2, xbox... etc launches about how they will have end-all graphics.

I was more impressed with my Dreamcast, because for the first time, good graphics actually helped gameplay, because I could see everything in more detail, speed through Crazy Taxi at 60 fps (which was just gorgeous back then), and experience the completely different looking Jet Grind Radio, which infused graphic style into a video game.

THAT'S the last time that better graphics mattered, and anything past Resident Evil 4 (gamecube version) with twice the enemies, high res textures, and full on per pixel lighting and normal mapping, just doesn't matter.

So there's my concerns about the ps3. That it will not have better graphics than the 360, and the controls will be absolutely archaic and just not fun compared to the Revolution.

[2nyRiggz]

^That is where i disagree. I see the PS3 bringing very good games/gamplay with excellent visuals. The controls will be the same just as the 360 only Nintendo did the job with reinventing the control(love them for it). Sony and 360....same as this Gen consoles except sony and the 360 will be on par(well until we see what sony have to offer).

I don't think anything will change but i hope they change that ugly control of the PS3:mad: ....please please sony give us something else.


Bless

[flyfish29]

Currently when it comes to Blu-Ray I think of laserdisks. DVDs had a lot over VHS, I don't see Blu-Ray having the same impact, for most DVDs are good enough.


I agree- Blu-Ray will maybe be a big deal in four or five years when more get HDTV's etc. I also think I will wait until Holiday 07 to get one- too much money- but I said that about the PS2 so who knows.

[Uma888]

Well, Sony has said it can BOOT Linux.

It may *also* run Linux underneath. I imagine it will work like a regular game console, plus give you the option to start Linux up as a full OS.

One of Sony's PS3 trailers even showed a split second screenshot of a Linux desktop.

However, from what Sony's said I'm pretty sure the Linux desktop is an option, not the first thing it boots.

If it can boot linux, it will be a matter of time before the copy protection is cracked.......bring it sony!!!!

[GFLPraxis]

If it can boot linux, it will be a matter of time before the copy protection is cracked.......bring it sony!!!!

Not really. Blu-ray disks have heavy copy protection and encryption, and the PS3 running Linux would be no different than a PC. However, Linux WOULD mean that you can do everything you can do on a hacked XBox or PS2 *except* run copied commercial games (homebrew, custom made games, etc would all run fine), so the only people who would want to crack the copy protection would be doing it for illegal purposes and Sony would be justified in a crackdown.

[illegalprelude]

I am one who uses the most out of my units. my PSP for example, I have tons of MP3's, Trailers, Pictures, I own about 15 games, 35 UMD Movies.

Im looking forward to all new features to intergrade it into my home network because I have my Vaio laptop on the network with my wireless printer and PC and PMG5.

My 360 offers me limited compatibility but ill soon be looking to network that in too but now that the PS3, i can either buy or it comes with a HDD with Linux, this is superb. Im all about networking and sharing my data and sending files back and forth and the PS3 is offering me all of that. I just need to start learning about Linux

[raggedjimmi]

I didn't know which bit to quote. But a bunch of folks from my university have got passes for E3. I applied, but my course wasn't relevant enough- New Media Design people! oh well. next year I'm transferring to Design and Art Direction with a bit of a focus on digital interactivity. I'd easily get in with that. Just next year...

Suppose that would be pointless though. THIS E3 will be the biggest in coming years, the biggest until the next next gen. The Revolution there, its inner most darkest secrets revealed, something more amazing than 3D space sensing controllers will be announced (so Nintendo say). The PS3 will be there. The most powerful games console yet, possibly announcing a new console design (I thought I heard the model we've all seen is a prototype).

[Haoshiro]

Heh, a new design!

Obelisk 2 PS3 Concept (http://www.techeblog.com/index.php/tech-gadget/obelisk-2-ps3-concept)

I think its better... but still "meh"

[Uma888]

Not really. Blu-ray disks have heavy copy protection and encryption, and the PS3 running Linux would be no different than a PC. However, Linux WOULD mean that you can do everything you can do on a hacked XBox or PS2 *except* run copied commercial games (homebrew, custom made games, etc would all run fine), so the only people who would want to crack the copy protection would be doing it for illegal purposes and Sony would be justified in a crackdown.

They said that about DVDs, as i mentioned its only a matter of time.

Hopefully they wont make the same mistake as microsoft, i.e not making the firmware of thier DVD drive sercure (its just been haxxed), i hope sony learn from this and make a custom firmware for thier bluray drives. Either way, a door way will open, eventually, an SDK kit will leak :p

[Onizuka]

They said that about DVDs, as i mentioned its only a matter of time.

Hopefully they wont make the same mistake as microsoft, i.e not making the firmware of thier DVD drive sercure (its just been haxxed), i hope sony learn from this and make a custom firmware for thier bluray drives. Either way, a door way will open, eventually, an SDK kit will leak :p

Well, you know what they say: IF it can be programmed, it can be re-programmed.

I had a modded Xbox, and it was pretty nifty. I don't think I'll end up doing anything with the PS 3, especially since it won't limit me to having to have an Windows Media Center PC to stream video and the like.

The PS 3 is shaping up to be a great thing. Can't wait.

[raggedjimmi]

Heh, a new design!

Obelisk 2 PS3 Concept (http://www.techeblog.com/index.php/tech-gadget/obelisk-2-ps3-concept)

I think its better... but still "meh"

I think it's alright that, just severely hindered by that 'foot'. I suppose without it the world would be in uproar for copying the Rev design.

Incidentally. Is the 360 the only next (or current, with its early release date) gen console to feature a tray loading drive?

[Haoshiro]

Now that you mention it, yes I think so. :)

I love slot-loading drives... was very pleased to see the Rev use one.

One question though, don't bd discs use a permenent plastic encasing? If so... how will that work for PS1/PS2 games you think?

Look at the Sony BDP-S1... (http://www.techeblog.com/index.php/tech-gadget/best-buy-taking-blu-ray-preorders)

[raggedjimmi]

The casing was an old design. They don't need them anymore.

Which means 2 things. Either they've got them very tough, or you're going to have to be very careful. I'd feel safer with the caddy to be honest. Especially since BluRay discs are going to be uber-expensive.

[Uma888]

Well, you know what they say: IF it can be programmed, it can be re-programmed.

I had a modded Xbox, and it was pretty nifty. I don't think I'll end up doing anything with the PS 3, especially since it won't limit me to having to have an Windows Media Center PC to stream video and the like.

The PS 3 is shaping up to be a great thing. Can't wait.

I forgot to mention that point, it seems to me the ps3 will provide me with my entertainment needs.

PS3 = Modded xbox (XBMC + 60gb + Homebrew)

[Haoshiro]

The casing was an old design. They don't need them anymore.

Which means 2 things. Either they've got them very tough, or you're going to have to be very careful. I'd feel safer with the caddy to be honest. Especially since BluRay discs are going to be uber-expensive.

Yes, honestly I've always felt like it would have been better to keep encasings on CDs and DVDs as well... it would just make me feel better! :D As it stands, I try to burn copies of most of my stuff and only use them to be sure I (or someone else) don't ruin the original.

Still, if they no longer use the casing and I buy a game that gets rendered useless with a few scuffs I'll be pretty peeved!

Also, 60GB is definitely a good size hdd for a console; but does anyone haev some opinions on that when considering the size of a BD? 30GB+....

Has anyone heard of BD is required? I'm sure their are plenty of games that won't need that much space and if the PS3 can read CD/DVD, could those be used for games?

[GFLPraxis]

Yes, honestly I've always felt like it would have been better to keep encasings on CDs and DVDs as well... it would just make me feel better! :D As it stands, I try to burn copies of most of my stuff and only use them to be sure I (or someone else) don't ruin the original.

Still, if they no longer use the casing and I buy a game that gets rendered useless with a few scuffs I'll be pretty peeved!

Also, 60GB is definitely a good size hdd for a console; but does anyone haev some opinions on that when considering the size of a BD? 30GB+....

Has anyone heard of BD is required? I'm sure their are plenty of games that won't need that much space and if the PS3 can read CD/DVD, could those be used for games?

Yeah, DVD's could be used for games, but since they won't have Blu-ray's copy protection Sony is going to require PS3 games be on Blu-ray disks.

[2nyRiggz]

Sony is giving the game developers plenty of room(with BluRay) to create and plus put additional material on these disk which is excellent for the end user. Its up to the software companies to either do something with it or just stay within the norm.

60gig is great...we know people will use it to store everything including game saves..more room to work with.

I still have major concerns with the controller shape..they don't seem comfortable.


Bless

[raggedjimmi]

Yes, honestly I've always felt like it would have been better to keep encasings on CDs and DVDs as well... it would just make me feel better! :D As it stands, I try to burn copies of most of my stuff and only use them to be sure I (or someone else) don't ruin the original.

Still, if they no longer use the casing and I buy a game that gets rendered useless with a few scuffs I'll be pretty peeved!

Also, 60GB is definitely a good size hdd for a console; but does anyone haev some opinions on that when considering the size of a BD? 30GB+....

Has anyone heard of BD is required? I'm sure their are plenty of games that won't need that much space and if the PS3 can read CD/DVD, could those be used for games?

60gb is MORE than enough. I've played on a lot of Xbox games, my mate owns hundreds and I used to borrow them all the time. Even with a HDD with a number of ripped ISOs (for uber-loading purposes. no. really), soundtracks and XMBC applications the 20gb drive just refuses to get full.
Though film and game downloads are the next big thing so you can't really compare.

This is a situation. Would Sony get every single game out on BluRay only? Pumping up production costs on little 100mb or 1gb games on a disc that can hold 30 times more? BluRay will be very effective against piracy in its infancy. suppose there is a trade off. Piracy was always a huge issue with the PS1, and was also (though seemingly not as much) an issue with the PS2.

I have a concern. BluRay loading times. How fast is BluRay? Will we be seeing longer load times than the PS2? I just can't stand extended load times :o and it would seem a little ironic. This uber machine held back by its weakest link. I fear the same for the Rev. full sized DVD's and that.

[illegalprelude]

I think the 60GB is superbly nice but we will see what kind of things we can soon cook up with the PS3. If the networking capabilities will be as I imagine, imagine being able to download HD Content and storing and then streaming it off and so forth. it will be superb!

As far as the controller goes, I cannot give correct judgment but IMHO, I think it looks actually comfortible, reason being. Normally, other controls are in your hand and thats it but with this, the controller is longer on the handles and comes to the inside of your hand, thus giving your hand a little room to actually rest if you ask me and lean into it.

[GFLPraxis]

60gb is MORE than enough. I've played on a lot of Xbox games, my mate owns hundreds and I used to borrow them all the time. Even with a HDD with a number of ripped ISOs (for uber-loading purposes. no. really), soundtracks and XMBC applications the 20gb drive just refuses to get full.
Though film and game downloads are the next big thing so you can't really compare.

This is a situation. Would Sony get every single game out on BluRay only? Pumping up production costs on little 100mb or 1gb games on a disc that can hold 30 times more? BluRay will be very effective against piracy in its infancy. suppose there is a trade off. Piracy was always a huge issue with the PS1, and was also (though seemingly not as much) an issue with the PS2.

I have a concern. BluRay loading times. How fast is BluRay? Will we be seeing longer load times than the PS2? I just can't stand extended load times :o and it would seem a little ironic. This uber machine held back by its weakest link. I fear the same for the Rev. full sized DVD's and that.

1x Blu-ray is slower than modern DVD drives, 2x is pretty close, 4x is faster. That's all IIRC. Nobody knows how fast Blu-ray is in the PS3 (1x, 2x, or 4x).

However, the PS2's DVD drive is not a 'modern' DVD drive and is much slower than, say, the one in the XBox 360. I imagine PS2 games may load much faster on the PS3.

One use I've imagined for the 60 GB hard drive; if you used a USB 2.0 TV capture device + Linux PVR software to make the PS3 a PVR, then streamed it over the network to any PC or Mac in the house...and network transfer all the videos from your PC that you want to the PS3...that would be incredible :)

[2nyRiggz]

From the pictures(which we don't know anything yet) the surface looks smooth and that might be a problem for people with moist hands(eww) but i do hope they put more shape to it....the rounded boomerang shape seems just a little like the xbox 1st controller but the PS3 controller looks a little smaller.


Bless

[Abulia]

A plus on the Blu-Ray/PS3 front is that Sony announced (http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060314-6377.html) they will not not enforce the Image Restraint Token on their movies. The first part of this article makes it sound like Sony hardware won't enforce IRT, but later it's Sony Pictures making this statement. So the enforcement of the IRT is apparently a flag on the Blu-Ray disc.

Anyhow, if you don't have a set with an HDMI interface, you'd be able to watch Sony movies without the mandatory image downgrade that the AACS mandates.

HD-DVD will enforce AACS as well. :mad:

[illegalprelude]

I dunno, the way I look at it and imagine, I think it will actually feel very comfortible in the hands. here are some different pics

[raggedjimmi]

I can imagine it being very comfy. But at the same time it still looks a little off. Somewhere around the dual analogue nubs (they seem to be nubs now?)

One thing that gets me, and I hope to god theres a 3rd party producer out there willing. I'd love analogue triggers and to swop an analogue nub with a D-pad. Maybe I've been spoilt by other controllers. But I had a baz on GT4 the other day and acceleration on analogue buttons pales to triggers. could a 3rd party developer fix that?

[GFLPraxis]

A plus on the Blu-Ray/PS3 front is that Sony announced (http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060314-6377.html) they will not not enforce the Image Restraint Token on their movies. The first part of this article makes it sound like Sony hardware won't enforce IRT, but later it's Sony Pictures making this statement. So the enforcement of the IRT is apparently a flag on the Blu-Ray disc.

Anyhow, if you don't have a set with an HDMI interface, you'd be able to watch Sony movies without the mandatory image downgrade that the AACS mandates.

HD-DVD will enforce AACS as well. :mad:

Yeah, on HD-DVD and Blu-ray I believe publishers can choose whether to protect the movies by downgrading on analog or not. Sony isn't going to.

They may at a later date though...:(

[2nyRiggz]

I dunno, the way I look at it and imagine, I think it will actually feel very comfortible in the hands. here are some different pics

Yea it looks nice but the button look so close together now which isn't bad for small handed people but seems so.... i would love to see sony make one of those shoulder buttons into a trigger. I always liked how they put those symbols on the button...gives it personality.

I gotta get my hands on it to judge.

Bless

[illegalprelude]

ahhh new pic I found of the controller that I had never seen. It does also have the nubs, the way we had always imagined.

[raggedjimmi]

Personally I'd like those face buttons a little thicker, especially if you need analogue features on them.
Meh. I would probably never use a 1st party Sony controller. The best PS2 controller I've used was this mini Wireless one. I never used the original PS1. So yea. 3rd party for me, for the button thickness and the reasons I listed some posts above.

[Abulia]

I don't mean to be negative, but that PS3 controller looks horribly uncomfortable. It'd be nice to see it in a pair of hands. Visually, just imagining where the buttons are, the extra "curve" of the body seems just too big. I suppose we'll find out eventually -- or worse case, there will be a huge PS3 controller aftermarket much like the Xbox "Duke" controller. :)

[mandoman]

I had the official linux distro on the ps2 and it was nothing special.
A very dated 2.2 kernal on a 200mhz mips processor with only 32meg's ram
didn't go very far. Was able to play mp3's with xmms over a samba share
though, kinda cool. Video, forget it. Linux on the xbox proved to be much more capable.

If Sony has Linux on the ps3, I hope they use a newer kernal, at least 2.4,
and preferrably 2.6. I also hope you can access the linux os directly
instead of having to use a boot disc like on the ps2.

If Sony allows linux access out of the box, uses a decent kernal, and the hardware is capable (decent processor, ram, hdd), that would be a really cool thing. Otherwise, meh.

Anyhow, I'm in no hurry to buy a next gen console. Give it 2 years or so to mature and a decent selection of games. Or at least until the next revolutionary gotta' buy it game title comes out, not a retread of the same stuff already available with just prettier graphics. In the meantime, I'm thinking intel mac mini running MAME and a mythtv frontend will suit me much better...

[mandoman]

One of the reasons I originally bought a ps2 because it could serve as a DVD player.
I'm not so sure the same will be true for the ps3 - we've got a format war on our hands this time around...

I for one am not looking forward to the next generation dvd format. I mean, it feels like I just upgraded my titles to DVD. Last thing I want to do is buy the same movies yet AGAIN on another format. Of course that's what hollywood hopes you will do. DVD is good enough for now.

I am more excited about the next generation optical media more for computer storage backup - how sweet will it be to backup an entire system os to a single optical disc. But for movies, until HDTV is in every home in America AND there is a clear format winner, forget it.

[raggedjimmi]

Anyhow, I'm in no hurry to buy a next gen console. Give it 2 years or so to mature and a decent selection of games. Or at least until the next revolutionary gotta' buy it game title comes out, not a retread of the same stuff already available with just prettier graphics. In the meantime, I'm thinking intel mac mini running MAME and a mythtv frontend will suit me much better...

hear hear! This is why I'm waiting before making a choice on either a PS3 or Xbox 360. chances are it will be a PS3. But just as you said. I don't want a retread myself. The only game in that category I'm looking forward too is Halo 3 just to find out this damn story :D (so long as they go more along the Halo 1- single player focused game instead).

Xbox Live sorta tempts me. I've been reading my brothers 360 mags and some of the Live Arcade games look to be very original. This really pushes me to a 360. But I still can't help feel it isn't that great just yet.

[2nyRiggz]

I will be getting the PS3 when it comes( i always get em all) the controller is not horrible but i think its still something extra. That concept PS3 model is ugly i rather like the design they came with...looks very "living room ready"...


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[illegalprelude]

you wont have to upgrade ur old movies. if u get movies on Blue-Ray great, if not, then no biggie because it has a built in DVD Player so no need but if you want to, you can. unlike with VCR to DVD where only in the last 2 years we have units that have a combo player

[illegalprelude]

hahahaha PS3 will come with the Hard Drive. 60GB and Linux. its official :D :cool: :eek: :)


http://www.gamespot.com/news/6146269.html

European Sony rep reportedly confirms that the next-gen console will come with 60GB hard drive, dispelling dual-SKU fears.

[Abulia]

you wont have to upgrade ur old movies. if u get movies on Blue-Ray great, if not, then no biggie because it has a built in DVD Player so no need but if you want to, you can. unlike with VCR to DVD where only in the last 2 years we have units that have a combo playerProvided you have an HDMI-compliant set and connection, otherwise your Blu-Ray movie will look no better than a standard DVD. Lots of people glossing over this little fact...

[GFLPraxis]

Provided you have an HDMI-compliant set and connection, otherwise your Blu-Ray movie will look no better than a standard DVD. Lots of people glossing over this little fact...

Only on movies where the publisher put the copy protection flag. Which will admittedly be most of them. Sony did announce that for now all their titles will output analog HDTV too. How long that will last, I don't know.

[Abulia]

Only on movies where the publisher put the copy protection flag. Which will admittedly be most of them. Sony did announce that for now all their titles will output analog HDTV too. How long that will last, I don't know.Yea, I know; I linked the story, remember. :)

Bottom line: Count on HDCP.

[raggedjimmi]

hehe. Count me alongside the millions who have been stung by HDTV already! The BBC ran an article or questionnaire or something, turns out that with all this HDTV-ready malarky thats been on in Britain, how we aren't told the details about HDTV and its requirements - That a lot of people are going to have to rebuy another set.

I bought my 2005FPW on the grounds that I could plug any future console or any future disc player into it and be happy. The Xbox 360 has VGA out after all.
I love this. I didn't do all my research so now I'm being stung. like 70% of consumers tricked into buying 720p screens without the proper connections billed as "Fully HDTV compatible!"

Suppose I'll wait for Apple to join the next gen disc crowd. I can still watch via DVI to my monitor... right?

[mandoman]

hehe. Count me alongside the millions who have been stung by HDTV already! The BBC ran an article or questionnaire or something, turns out that with all this HDTV-ready malarky thats been on in Britain, how we aren't told the details about HDTV and its requirements - That a lot of people are going to have to rebuy another set.

I bought my 2005FPW on the grounds that I could plug any future console or any future disc player into it and be happy. The Xbox 360 has VGA out after all.
I love this. I didn't do all my research so now I'm being stung. like 70% of consumers tricked into buying 720p screens without the proper connections billed as "Fully HDTV compatible!"

Suppose I'll wait for Apple to join the next gen disc crowd. I can still watch via DVI to my monitor... right?

Makes you wonder if there is a class action legal case to not require HDCP?

[Abulia]

I bought my 2005FPW on the grounds that I could plug any future console or any future disc player into it and be happy. The Xbox 360 has VGA out after all.
I love this. I didn't do all my research so now I'm being stung.Whoa. This is your fault and no one elses.

I also own a 2005FPW and it's a fantastic monitor. No where on it, or on the Dell website, is the 2005FPW advertised as a "HDTV" or "EDTV" monitor. By your own admission you didn't do your research and you're complaining about having to buy "another" set? You haven't bought a HDTV set yet! :D

You haven't been "stung" by HDTV; you stung yourself by not performing the bare minimum of research.

[Onizuka]

Whoa. This is your fault and no one elses.

I also own a 2005FPW and it's a fantastic monitor. No where on it, or on the Dell website, is the 2005FPW advertised as a "HDTV" or "EDTV" monitor. By your own admission you didn't do your research and you're complaining about having to buy "another" set? You haven't bought a HDTV set yet! :D

You haven't been "stung" by HDTV; you stung yourself by not performing the bare minimum of research.

And not only that, there's more to HD than Britain. America will soon no longer have off-air antenna. The FCC want to reserve that forms of comminucation for other things. Soon everyone wilkl have to have HDTV, or a converter from their cable company.

The 2005FPW isn't high def, I don't know a screen smaller than 23" that is. Plus, if you want a real good screen, you're going to get something bigger than 36" for high def.

[raggedjimmi]

Whoa. This is your fault and no one elses.

I also own a 2005FPW and it's a fantastic monitor. No where on it, or on the Dell website, is the 2005FPW advertised as a "HDTV" or "EDTV" monitor. By your own admission you didn't do your research and you're complaining about having to buy "another" set? You haven't bought a HDTV set yet! :D

You haven't been "stung" by HDTV; you stung yourself by not performing the bare minimum of research.

Actually I did ask around and people said "it can display HDTV" :o

But this DOES happen. My cousin bought 2 50" Phillips TV's a while ago. Advertised as HDTV compatible. Turns out there's no HDMI port on them.
I predict a load of angry users taking some kind of action against shops who falsely advertised.

EDIT: My 360 owning mate bought a 20" HDTV (or so it said), may be Panasonic. It runs the 360 in HD through VGA, though it has no HDMI port either. And this is only 6 months old.

EDIT2: Britain will be far behind all this. The BBC are slowly switching off analogue TV, forcing viewers to switch to digital (Freeview, Sky etc). There are plans for a HDTV BBC and Sky service later this year. But if there is any subscription (especially since we pay for the BBC through the Licence Fee) then there will be minimal impact among the masses.

[takao]

And not only that, there's more to HD than Britain. America will soon no longer have off-air antenna. The FCC want to reserve that forms of comminucation for other things. Soon everyone wilkl have to have HDTV, or a converter from their cable company.

The 2005FPW isn't high def, I don't know a screen smaller than 23" that is. Plus, if you want a real good screen, you're going to get something bigger than 36" for high def.

off topic:
well there are 22 inch PC screens with WQUXGA (Wide Quad Ultra Extended Graphics Array 3840x2400 (!)) but i guess nobody in here can afford such a beast
they are talking about HDTV since decades after all.. so it's no surprise that on the PC side they can fit higher resolutions in smaller panels

is there a (cheap) full HDTV with hdmi with a _good_ PAL scaling unit available ? preferable below 30" and 1000 bucks ? (i don't care if crt or lcd.. as long it isn't a plasma)

[Abulia]

EDIT: My 360 owning mate bought a 20" HDTV (or so it said), may be Panasonic. It runs the 360 in HD through VGA, though it has no HDMI port either. And this is only 6 months old.VGA or DVI-D? Because DVI-D is compatable with HDMI and HDCP; it just doesn't transmit sound. So your friend could be okay.
is there a (cheap) full HDTV with hdmi with a _good_ PAL scaling unit available ? preferable below 30" and 1000 bucks ? (i don't care if crt or lcd.. as long it isn't a plasma)I don't know diddly about PAL sets, but if there was such a set it'd be CRT. That's about the only way to drive the price to the point that you're asking about. Not that's a bad thing; there's lot of people who prefer HD CRTs over any other technology.

[MacRumorUser]

VGA or DVI-D? Because DVI-D is compatable with HDMI and HDCP; it just doesn't transmit sound. So your friend could be okay.
I don't know diddly about PAL sets......

Pal Wise :-

Most HDTV set's have DVI-D and input for left & right audio so for the most part people will be grand, it's only the cheap ass really budget ones that only support vga ;)

Seriously even SKY when broadcasting HDTV will support HDMI, DVI, & Analogue Component so people are panicking about nothing at the moment..

I'm sure the Ps3 will support analogue HDTV with an optional cable (probably overpriced) - Sony aren't going to force people to use stupid proprietary formats.. Oh wait.. ;) :rolleyes: :)

There is always problems being the first run of a hardware type, so it's no surprise that some set's wont be suitable (those without component, dvi or hdmi - just VGA) but there will be workarounds..

Both my HDTV set's don't have HDMI (my DLP projector does 'so 8-feet x 4-feet' PS3 screen for me), but do have DVI, VGA & Component.. I'm confident 1 way or another that the hardware coming out will work with them... Relax and let's see before we :( :( :( cry...

---------

Whilst I will adopt as I'm a techno freak (I did buy a laserdisc player in the UK back in 1996)

I honestly think HDTV is the future, but like Laserdisc..... Blu-Ray & HDDVD & HDTV (in general) has come too soon for the masses to make any real impact... I seriously suspect Blu-Ray & HDDVD to fail in general and it will be a format (maybe solida state or a hybrid) that will take over in 3-5 years time.....

Like MiniDisc, LaserDisc & Philips DCC & CDi (and even now with Super Audio CD) All ahead of the time/game/competition and offering an advanced alternative, but did/have negligable difference to the market.

Put Blu-Ray & HDDVD in this category I reckon... 3-5 years when there's a much cheaper recordable hybrid solution - that is what will take the market. By that time most analogue TV statiobn will have switched off...

[GFLPraxis]

It's just been confirmed from GDC:
http://ps3.ign.com/articles/697/697656p1.html
PS3 games are region-free.

This lays to rest the arguement that people will still mod the PS3 for imports.

So imports play fine, and homebrew is completely supported. Sony knows what they're doing this time- by supporting every possible legal use out of the box, anyone who modchips their PS2 will only be doing it to play copied games, so I'm sure they'll use that to crack down.

[illegalprelude]

yea, that is a very interesting stratigy and it goes along the path of
1st. region free and then 2nd. to global e-distribution. Were not there yet but step 2 might be seen with the PS4. We already know the PSP will be getting PSOne games via e-distribution

[raggedjimmi]

Anyone seen the new controller design? Though it might just be a mock up. It's like an orb thing. Which I think is bleedin excellent. I'm always up for new controllers/non predicted updates like this. Congrats Sony :)

Yea. I think the PS3 will be on my to get list at some point. good step in the right direction chucking that boomerang controller. lets just hope it doesn't come back


sorry!

[2nyRiggz]

Warhammer, ratchet and clank! sony is bringing it right....excellent...downloadable content yes please!


Bless

[illegalprelude]

Anyone seen the new controller design? Though it might just be a mock up. It's like an orb thing. Which I think is bleedin excellent. I'm always up for new controllers/non predicted updates like this. Congrats Sony :)

Yea. I think the PS3 will be on my to get list at some point. good step in the right direction chucking that boomerang controller. lets just hope it doesn't come back


sorry!

ive heard about this new controller, is there pictures of it?

[coffey7]

I really hate how the ps2 GAMES came out in japan a year(sometimes) before a U.S. launch.
North America killed japan in over all sales. I guess I will get over that(japans #1 to sony) someday and buy a ps3. I have a xbox, ps2, and gamecube. This time around I'm only going to buy 360, ps3. The only thing, is that the ps3 better come with a harddrive.I hate memory cards. The price is also a big factor for some people. If its over $600 sony will have some problems.

[illegalprelude]

im 100% sure it wont be like that. Im guessing its going to be $399, like the top 360 that had the Hard Drive.

Games have always came out in Japan first from the dawn of time. Most publishers are there.

Sport games come here 1st. Action/RPG/Racing usually there

FPS/GTA type games come here first. Just depends on the market but compared to Japan, they have much higher user rate of games and systems then we do if you compare percentages. makes sense too. plus, a country like Japan is alot more adapting to technology then we are. US is soooo far behind in technology, its not even funny

[GFLPraxis]

I think that the region they come out in depends on the company.

Sony and Nintendo are Japanese companies (however it is interesting to note that Nintendo has actually been launching certain products, such as the DS and New Super Mario Bros and all Metroid games, in the U.S. first) and thus release most of their products in Japan first.

Same goes for Square Enix, Konami, Capcom, etc.

EA (maker of most sports games) and Microsoft release in the U.S. first.

I'm curious- anyone know where Ubisoft (the only major French games developer) sells their products first? Is it Europe?


Also; if I had to guess a price range, I'd say the PS3 will cost between $399 and $449.

[illegalprelude]

I could see a $449. The interesting thing to note is, many people see $399 as a fair price but $449 suddenly seems so much higher when in all reality, its not that big of a deal.

[GFLPraxis]

Slightly OT:
http://www.ubisoftgroup.com/Jobs/Info.aspx?country=US&jId=31

Anyone know why Ubisoft is looking to hire people experienced with Windows 95?

[raggedjimmi]

I think that the region they come out in depends on the company.

Sony and Nintendo are Japanese companies (however it is interesting to note that Nintendo has actually been launching certain products, such as the DS and New Super Mario Bros and all Metroid games, in the U.S. first) and thus release most of their products in Japan first.

Same goes for Square Enix, Konami, Capcom, etc.

EA (maker of most sports games) and Microsoft release in the U.S. first.

I'm curious- anyone know where Ubisoft (the only major French games developer) sells their products first? Is it Europe?


Also; if I had to guess a price range, I'd say the PS3 will cost between $399 and $449.

The only game I've bought that came out in Europe first was The Minish Cap. I've no idea about Ubisoft games, never bought one :)

[Haoshiro]

ive heard about this new controller, is there pictures of it?

The "new" control was just a fan drawn contest entry:
http://www.joystiq.com/2006/01/25/joystiq-readers-redesign-the-ps3-controller/

[2nyRiggz]

^That controller is ugly!:eek: i rather the boomerang.


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[Abulia]

While the PS3 will play games region-free, it's worth noting that the developers still have to support multiple regions.

Yes, you can play that crazy anime RPG from Japan, but unless you can read/speak Japanese you're gonna be outta luck. :)

[raggedjimmi]

While the PS3 will play games region-free, it's worth noting that the developers still have to support multiple regions.

Yes, you can play that crazy anime RPG from Japan, but unless you can read/speak Japanese you're gonna be outta luck. :)

And German speakers will have a bit of a problem. they'd need to wait for the Europe release!

I say Germany because folk speak Spanish and French over the pond. Oh add Italy and those thousands of other languages over here.

[2nyRiggz]

While the PS3 will play games region-free, it's worth noting that the developers still have to support multiple regions.

Yes, you can play that crazy anime RPG from Japan, but unless you can read/speak Japanese you're gonna be outta luck. :)

Well once it is still subtitled it should b alright.


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[GFLPraxis]

While the PS3 will play games region-free, it's worth noting that the developers still have to support multiple regions.

Yes, you can play that crazy anime RPG from Japan, but unless you can read/speak Japanese you're gonna be outta luck. :)

Yeah but it does mean the import fiends aren't going to need to modchip to play.

[Abulia]

Well once it is still subtitled it should b alright.This is what I mean when I say that the developers must support it. The games don't magically ship with subtitles in your language; the developers have to add that.

I'm not saying it can't be done, I'm just saying that "region free" doesn't mean worldwide gaming nirvana without additional work.

[2nyRiggz]

^Just knowing that these games they make(developers) will reach a wider set of people i think they will make that effort to include whatever is needed but thats just me thinking from a marketing point.

If you want your game to be better known then why not include whatever.


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[illegalprelude]

Yeah but it does mean the import fiends aren't going to need to modchip to play.

uumm...their really not gonna need a mod chip, hence region free?

[GFLPraxis]

uumm...their really not gonna need a mod chip, hence region free?

Ummm...that's what I just said?

I think the point is to legalize every other use for modchips (homebrew, imports) so that they can be declared illegal as the only other use would be for piracy or cheating.

[Onizuka]

^That controller is ugly!:eek: i rather the boomerang.


Bless

Word on that...

Though I like the other one they included where the d-pad and analog stick were switcharooed. That was a nice little design.

[2nyRiggz]

Sony looks like they will focus hard on the online network they got and i really hope they include the PSP with that...that would be great...keep it free.

I hope they continue that trend of good games sony makes: ICO, Primal, Shadow of the.., God of War etc..


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