Iwata's GDC keynote concludes- Zelda DS, Revolution, wow!

[GFLPraxis]

http://www.nintendoplayers.com/article.php?articleID=164

Brief recap (quotes from IGN, Gamesarefun, and GameIndustry.biz's coverage):
- Zelda DS is cel-shaded, looks like Wind Waker, and titled The legend of Zelda: The Phantom Hourglass;
-One more adventure today: Zelda DS (woooo!) Has a cel-shaded style similar to Wind Waker. A map is displayed on the top screen, with the action on the bottom screen. Apparently you draw things on the bottom screen which affect the top screen. Officially called The Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass. Playable at E3 along with Twilight Princess; launches later this year.


11:29: Iwata takes the stage. There's one more new adventure for you today: Zelda DS. Short clip plays: cel-shaded-style graphics. Top screen: mostly maps. Action is on the lower screen. Use touch screen to draw things -- transitioning the bottom screen input to the top. Launches later this year -- from Aonuma and team (makers of Wind Waker).

11:29 AM PDT- Iwata explains how even grandmothers loves the DS, and talks about Tetris DS and New Super Mario Bros.. Audience claps upon seeing Mario. A new Zelda game is revealed for the DS, but uses an engine similar to Wind Waker. It has touch-screen gameplay, cel-shaded graphics, anthe game has a puzzle formula where what you draw on the bottom screen reflects to the top. The game is officially called The Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass.

- Revolution will have Sega and TurboGrafix titles downloadable!

-PR hot off the presses!: "Nintendo Also Announces Plans to Offer Classic Sega and TurboGrafx Games" (on Revolution). A selection of the best titles will be available on the Revolution.

11:35 AM PDT- Iwata talks about the new interface of the controller and how easy it is to use, and how expensive it was to get it developed. Iwata felt the money should be better spent in the game experience, and not high-tech screen performance. Begins talking about classic games that will serve a dual purpose, being retro for classic players and new experiences for young players. Sega Genesis games will be on Revolution, and so will several Hudson Soft games, like Adventure Island and Bomberman.


11:37: Games specifically developed for the SEGA Genesis and for the TurboGrafx console will also be playable on Nintendo Revolution. Not all of them -- but the best of them will be.


Nintendo's press release states:
Iwata also announced partnerships with Sega and Hudson to offer downloadable access to their classic games via Revolution's Virtual Console. Revolution owners will be able to relive their past gaming glories from the Sega Genesis console by playing a "best of" selection from more than 1,000 Genesis titles, as well as games sold for the TurboGrafx console (a system jointly developed by NEC and Hudson). These games join Revolution's access to 20 years of fan-favorite Nintendo games from the NES(R), Super NES(R) and Nintendo(R) 64 eras. Iwata also revealed for the first time that a new game called The Legend of Zelda(R): Phantom Hourglass would be released for Nintendo DS later this year.

- E3 will be the Revolution blowout, and it will be playable.




Awesome. I hope they release screenshots of Zelda.
EDIT: 640x480 version of the video here:
http://www.nintendoplayers.com/article.php?articleID=166

[srobert]

More than 1000 Sega Genesis titles :eek:

Shining force, here I come.

[2nyRiggz]

Thats great...i was waiting for Link to hit the DS. Sega/nintendo/TurboGraffix(box/bounce adventure?) games yes please!;)


Bless

[mrgreen4242]

Ooohhh... all awesome news. I am absolutely estatic that they are doing a 3D Wind Waker style Zelda on the DS... I was afraid we'd get a Four Swords type game. This one won't come fast enough for me. I am hoping that they announce some sort of WiFi play for it at E3 and pray they manage to keep on schedule and launch it for the holidays this year.

[rye9]

I hope all of this brings Nintendo back up there. I love their stuff and will buy the Revolution and Zelda: Twilight Princess for sure. Maybe even the one for DS. :)

[therevolution]

Thats great...i was waiting for Link to hit the DS. Sega/nintendo/TurboGraffix(box/bounce adventure?) games yes please!;)

You mean Bonk's Adventure (http://screenmania.retrogames.com/pce/01/pce_012.html)? That was a great TurboGrafx title... I wonder how well it plays today...

[takao]

DS zelda and genesis/turbografx were perhaps the biggest things of the keynote... together with nintendos own back catalog their virtual console catalog is going to get huge

wasn't the genesis compatible with their old master system as well ? so there are coming further games as well ... i wonder if they can bring the other sega consoles to the VC as well ... like the saturn

[GFLPraxis]

You know, the Turbografx was before my time. What were the games like?

I'm curious as to how far the backwards compatability goes. We know there are 1000 genesis titles. Will there be 32X titles? Sega Saturn and Sega CD titles? Dreamcast? Sega Master System?

Sega Saturn and Sega CD games would be too big to download to the flash drive I'd imagine, but it would be awesome if you could purchase an emulator and just pop the games in the CD drive. The Dreamcast could be possible as well, as I've heard that hacked drivers can let PC's read the disks, so I suppose an emulator could be made for that as well if the system has the power.

[2nyRiggz]

^It was just like the other wonderful machines that didn't make it....it was ahead of its time but just didn't catch on and the controllers was great along with great titles.

TB 16

I cant remember any Sega CD games except sonic and night trap(i think)

Bless

[takao]

Awesome. I hope they release screenshots (as no one was allowed cameras during the keynote IIRC) of Zelda.

photos _were_ allowed

go to gamefront.de and scroll down untill you see the news for zelda.. they have 4 pictures.. i think from wired.com

even better:
nintendo has a gameplay video up
http://www.nintendo.com/newsarticle?articleid=64wsG8LoGw3vuttzAr5zU-s70OLsg6Fm
direct link to the video
http://media.nintendo.com/mediaFiles/fDp6jkG4NYgUu74upE_kpwhmLp5Xq3-f.mov

edit: damn the video is sweet..
taking notes/marking stuff on dungeon maps .. check
painting the way the boomerang should fly .. check
painting course for ship... check

[GFLPraxis]

Really? Sweet- one site claimed no cameras were allowed after the first five minutes. Strange.

[0s and 1s]

I hope they release Sega CD games for the Revolution. I never finished Willy Beamish or Night Trap!!!!

Man....great news today! I can't wait for E3. I'll be sure to take lots of pictures!!

[raggedjimmi]

I've been out all day too! I knew I'd come back to something big. firstly had 4 hours sleep, into university for 4 hours. back home. go to Trafford Centre. fall in love with this Midi keyboard (£60 too!). spent 5 hours on busses today. got in. died.

Mega drive games AND Super Nintendo! bloody nora. Sorry, but forget the PS3 now. no amount of PS1 games come CLOSE to the legend that was the 16 bit. Sonic 2, Super Metroid, Legend of Zelda. They are combining the best systems of yesteryear onto one console. simply amazing. just utterly amazing.

If they got Amiga games on there. Then I literally would sell my body for a Rev.

[GFLPraxis]

We've got videos of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass over at NintendoPlayers.com!

http://www.nintendoplayers.com/article.php?articleID=166

I'd suggest downloading our 640x480 WMV version (sorry- I couldn't find the high res one in QuickTime) as IGN charges for that resolution.

[raggedjimmi]

We've got videos of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass over at NintendoPlayers.com!

http://www.nintendoplayers.com/article.php?articleID=166

I'd suggest downloading our 640x480 WMV version (sorry- I couldn't find the high res one in QuickTime) as IGN charges for that resolution.

I started downloading this a while back on some other site. So far it looks fantastic.

Are Capcom making this too? Just I liked the Capcom Zelda games, but they were not close to the Nintendo Zelda.

The way the Z appears, and turns into the hourglass. Oh Zelda. You have my heart.

[GFLPraxis]

I've just converted the trailer and I'm going to put it on my DS and show it to a lot of people :D

[mrgreen4242]

OMG. I just got done watching that Zelda video and I am seriously gonna cry. Because I can't have it RIGHT THIS SECOND. I hope the let you (and require you to) pan and tilt the camera angle to give it more depth than a straight 2D top down adventure... I am also still hoping for a multiplayer/WiFi feature. Maybe a more difficult co-op version of the single player game, with a special dungeon that you need 2+ players to access? Sadly doubtful thought, there's never been much in the way of multiplayer for Zelda games, except the Four Swords.

Ok, just watched it again. I love the boomerang! I haven't been this excited for a game since... uh... ever?

[raggedjimmi]

Notice they've only shown dungeons and the boat bit (OCEAN!!!). Probably either means it's very early on, or the overworld is going to be very beautiful. or something else I daren't think.

[mrgreen4242]

Notice they've only shown dungeons and the boat bit (OCEAN!!!). Probably either means it's very early on, or the overworld is going to be very beautiful. or something else I daren't think.

There's some overworld... right in the beginning Link is smashing up on some beasties in the forest. It does look good though!

[socamx]

Revolution just keeps sounding sweeter and sweeter. Nintendo might have a real winner on their hands here.

[nightdweller25]

Zelda...on...my...DS!:D
So...friggin...excited!

[ZildjianKX]

I hope they release Sega CD games for the Revolution. I never finished Willy Beamish or Night Trap!!!!

Man....great news today! I can't wait for E3. I'll be sure to take lots of pictures!!

Highly doubt they would release them as being downloadable, WAY too big. Would be interesting if you could pop the discs in though.

Sonic CD without the FMV or 32X games would be very plausible though.

If anyone wants the best Zelda DS video out there, direct link straight from the big N themselves.

http://media.nintendo.com/mediaFiles/fDp6jkG4NYgUu74upE_kpwhmLp5Xq3-f.mov

[Ja Di ksw]

This is one of the games I've been waiting for. The ability to draw boomerang shots, ship paths, ¡¡¡take notes on the map!!! This is just another thing that Nintendo will have me waiting for.

Current list:
Revolution (Please come out soon!)
DS Mario Bros (Been playing the SNES version out of excitement)
DS Metroid (online fps, stylus works great, I can't wait)
DS Zelda (the 1st Zelda was the first game I ever played on my NES, and still one of my favorites)

I haven't actually been anticipating anything game related for years and years, and now Nintendo has 4 things that I can't wait for. I tip my hat.

[jaywong87]

awesome..did anyone see the footage for the new Zelda on the DS? It's looks awesome. It's in the style of the LoZ: WW and in an isometric view (with occasional behind the back 3D camera)...

[plinkoman]

i absolutely love the perspective in this game. it's almost like a combination between 3d zelda and 2d top-down zelda :D

this is going to be a big year for nintendo for sure.

[GFLPraxis]

Some new info from IGN.
http://revolution.ign.com/articles/698/698059p1.html
IGN: Is Revolution the final name of your new system?

Beth: No, it's not.

IGN: So it's definitely a codename?

Beth: It's a codename.

IGN: And it's going to change?

Beth: It is going to change.

IGN: Great. When are you going to reveal the final name?

Beth: Well, you're going to have to wait and see.

IGN: E3?

Beth: Not quite sure yet.

IGN: Somehow we think that's a lie.

[Laughter]

Definitely is going to be another name.

IGN: What's the deal with Zelda: Twilight Princess and the Revolution controller?

Beth: We're going to obviously talk a lot more about Zelda when we get to E3. But Miyamoto did talk about the fact that you can use the Revolution controller with the GameCube Zelda. And that's about all we're talking about right now.

IGN: So that will be demoed at E3 then.

Beth: We'll certainly be talking about it at E3. And Mr. Iwata did reference that in his speech today - that we'd see Zelda on GameCube and DS at E3.

It's reconfirmed; after all the rumors and denial, Zelda: Twilight Princess can indeed use the Revolution controller.

IGN: The Virtual Console is going to be home to hundreds of classic games, from the sound of it. But can we expect original games for it, too?

Beth: Yeah, and actually Mr. Iwata touched upon that briefly today - the system being a platform for developers to try out new content. So, certainly. We've been focused pretty heavily on the classic content and now bringing SEGA Genesis and TurboGrafx games, but it certainly will be a forum for bringing some new content.

Apparently the Virtual Console will let developers develop new games too (like XBox Live Arcade, I imagine?). This could be a good way for small developers to start out- especially since IGN reports that a Revolution dev kit is only $2000 (much less than even a PSP dev kit).

IGN: There's still a Revolution secret, apparently. It gets mentioned every now and again.

[Beth laughs]

IGN: Is it a big secret?

Beth: It depends on which one it is, I don't know. Clearly there are things we haven't said yet about Revolution, mainly talking about the games and what you're going to be able to play and what the experience is really like. But yes, there are still some secrets out there about what the system can do.

IGN: Hardware related secrets?

Beth: You know, maybe. It's kind of hard to say. There are just a lot of things that we haven't talked about yet. There's a lot more to learn.

Confirmation that there are in fact more secrets.


http://revolution.ign.com/articles/698/698014p1.html - IGN claims Activision is developing a Revolution-exclusive version of Spider-Man 3.


We've also got a complete transcript of Iwata's keynote at NintendoPlayers.
http://www.nintendoplayers.com/article.php?articleID=169


Awesome stuff, and Nintendo's giving ANOTHER speech tomorrow (probably less eventful, it's the head of the WiFi division talking about DS and Revolution WiFi).

[GFLPraxis]

Highly doubt they would release them as being downloadable, WAY too big. Would be interesting if you could pop the discs in though.

Sonic CD without the FMV or 32X games would be very plausible though.

If anyone wants the best Zelda DS video out there, direct link straight from the big N themselves.

http://media.nintendo.com/mediaFiles/fDp6jkG4NYgUu74upE_kpwhmLp5Xq3-f.mov

I noticed that one and linked to it as a mirror in the NintendoPlayers article, but I also noted that it's only 320x240. We have a 640x480 one. We got it directly from Nintendo's Press Site (they gave us access) and IGN charges for it (jerks).

[Kernow]

i absolutely love the perspective in this game. it's almost like a combination between 3d zelda and 2d top-down zelda :D

Exactly what I thought. It looks intriguing - I can't wait to see how it plays.

[mrgreen4242]

Spidey with the Rev controller will be cool, flinging webs and whatnot. :) I'm still stoked about Zelda DS, though... I'm looking forward to that more than the Rev (mainly because we know so little about the games - just the potential of the machine).

This talk about using the virtual console to develop new games is interesting. I wonder if they mean "mini" Rev games that are distributed via the WiFi service or games that use the other consoles emulators?

With the announcement that MS would be selling a software only dev kit for the 360 for $100 (I'm not to clear on the details, but it must be lacking access to the high end features of the system - something aimed at smaller Live distribute games) and the fact the full Rev kit is $2000 maybe Nintendo is going to do what I invisioned last year when the Rev's virtual console was announced... Give a NES software dev kit away for free, sell a SNES software package for ~$50 and a couple N64 kits maybe - one software for $100 and a hardware package for, say, $250.

Let homebrew and VERY small dev teams make games on these older, well documented (except maybe the 64), not to mention much beloved, systems.

[mikeyPotg]

go go 3do & neo geo on revolution? I never woulde guessed Genesis & TGfx16 making that deal with Nintendo, so who knows?
one can hope.
c'mon Nintendo, make it happenn!

[raggedjimmi]

RE: the interview up in this thread.

That got me a little excited. I always knew there was one big secret they were keeping. I had no idea there were a few!

I like all this. I got a little excited about the DS. even jogging home from university when it arrived (rather than get a 1 hour bus). But the Rev is just in a totally different league. Nintendo are pushing all the right buttons here. God knows who they've hired. But Nintendo's marketing and advertising divisions are just pushing the boat out.

I think, going off Sony's announcement that the PSP will play PS1 games, that the Rev will be able to send retro games to the DS. That was probably the plan all along. Just this screen size issue... or is that what the next GB is for?

[mrgreen4242]

RE: the interview up in this thread.

That got me a little excited. I always knew there was one big secret they were keeping. I had no idea there were a few!

I like all this. I got a little excited about the DS. even jogging home from university when it arrived (rather than get a 1 hour bus). But the Rev is just in a totally different league. Nintendo are pushing all the right buttons here. God knows who they've hired. But Nintendo's marketing and advertising divisions are just pushing the boat out.

I think, going off Sony's announcement that the PSP will play PS1 games, that the Rev will be able to send retro games to the DS. That was probably the plan all along. Just this screen size issue... or is that what the next GB is for?

I have no doubts that Nintendo is headed to a handheld only market in the next 10 years. The Rev may be the last home console from Nintendo. They've made it clear they feel like graphics are unimportant, and that gameplay is king. I agree with them. By the time the next round of consoles is getting prepped, 5 years or so, I believe that technology in both CPU power and batteries will allow them to pull off a portable system with at least Revolution level graphics along with a gorgeous high-resolution touch screen.

They've been dominating the handheld market for almost 2 decades now, and I think the DS will ensure that continues for a few years. The recent surveys showing that adults game more than teens is, I think, going to continue to push towards handhelds. Adults have less large blobks of time to game, they travel more, and also are more likely to have to share the TV with spouses/families. Handhelds are perfect for that group. It's YOUR gaming device. Nothing about it need be shared, which makes it more accessable to YOUR schedule.

As an adult (I use that term loosely - I'm only 26!) I have played my GBA far more than my GameCube. I am looking forward to the same with my DS (hope it gets here today finally)! WiFi is becoming more and more ubiquitous, and multiplayer gaming is becoming even more important, especially to adults. The success of the DS with the NWF service I believe will push for and enable a more mobile gaming experience.

Ok long enough for now. :)

[takao]

They've been dominating the handheld market for almost 2 decades now, and I think the DS will ensure that continues for a few years. The recent surveys showing that adults game more than teens is, I think, going to continue to push towards handhelds. Adults have less large blobks of time to game, they travel more, and also are more likely to have to share the TV with spouses/families. Handhelds are perfect for that group. It's YOUR gaming device. Nothing about it need be shared, which makes it more accessable to YOUR schedule.

i don't know i feel more of the other side .. i have yet to see an adult playing with a handheld in public .. i'm 22-23 and i know 2 at my age with a DS, a few konsole gamers (perhaps 5) and then PC gamers around 3 times that combined

i don't see any chances soon.. most people older than 21 still look at computer/video games as a "waste of time" or more region specific: "making people dumb"

on the other side i would agree an gaming switching away from TVs ... the only reason i have a TV is because of video-games and dvds... and i'm not the only one at my age has no "need" for TV anymore Internet+PC+Screen with multiple fast switchable inputs will be my choice in the future 5-10 years (1 input for console and 1 for PC)

[Kernow]

i don't know i feel more of the other side .. i have yet to see an adult playing with a handheld in public .. i'm 22-23 and i know 2 at my age with a DS, a few konsole gamers (perhaps 5) and then PC gamers around 3 times that combined

I've seen plenty here in London, particularly on tubes and trains. The mix is probably half and half PSP and DS, with a far more varied demographic for the DS.

I've used my DS on the odd commute too.

[2nyRiggz]

Great news but i think they will keep the name(REV)....i'm tired of words from these systems..i want to see now.


Bless

[takao]

I've seen plenty here in London, particularly on tubes and trains. The mix is probably half and half PSP and DS, with a far more varied demographic for the DS.

I've used my DS on the odd commute too.


i'm sitting perhaps 45 - 60 in a bus from one side of town to the other side where the tech university is every day too but i perhaps have seen 2 psp in the hands of kids showing them off (shortly after launch) and perhaps 3 -4 DS and a few more GAb.. none was used by an adult

[mrgreen4242]

i don't see any chances soon.. most people older than 21 still look at computer/video games as a "waste of time" or more region specific: "making people dumb"

Here's some info on a recent study indicating that adults spend more time gaming than teens. http://gameshogun.info/index.php/Snow/2006/03/23/adults_spend_more_time_gaming_than_teens

don't know i feel more of the other side .. i have yet to see an adult playing with a handheld in public ..
I hardly played my GBA in public either, but I played it all the time. I took it with me on trips, played in hotel rooms, etc. I don't live in an area with public transportation, so I can't play it there. I did play it all the time at home. It was convenient. I'd suspect there are lots and lots of adults playing handheld games at home.

[raggedjimmi]

I've seen 1 PSP on the bus (I spend at least 2 hours on the bus every day, barring the weekend) being handled by scallies.

to non-brits; a scally is a usually a hoody and burberry-clad teenager. usually either drunk or on drugs. would likely kill you if you had £5 in your pocket, who would film it on their mobile phone. likely stolen to begin with.

I've seen 3 DS's thus far. One looked a couple of years older than me on the bus back from Huddersfield. had headphones in. was smiling a lot. probably was playing Nintendogs for the first time. 1 was a kid in the centre of Manchester and another was another scally on the bus. Also spotted a few around Manchester Met uni and Tameside College.
Only ever saw 1 GBA. day they were released. I was in London and some kid had one on the tube.

/observations

I play my DS more than anything right now. I played my GBA more than my cube. infact.
DS>GBA>>>GC>N64>Amiga>Dreamcast>>Xbox.
in recent years.

[takao]

the discussion is funny because just 2 days ago in the bus me and a friend talked to another guy from university about the topic (we discovered during the lecture that he was at the games convention leipzig as well) and he was literally talking like this: "i'm glad i met you guys i was starting to think that i'm the only gamer at university.." and we're studying computer science with a 90% male ratio ...

another quote "it's hard to find people who playing something besides flash games,WoW or games for mobile phones... even more so for console gamers"

we have typically 15 minute breaks between lectures on university and i have yet to see somebody taking out a handheld ...

that aside mark up another one for the "we are boycotting EA" list ... ;)

[Abulia]

Apparently the Virtual Console will let developers develop new games too (like XBox Live Arcade, I imagine?). This could be a good way for small developers to start out- especially since IGN reports that a Revolution dev kit is only $2000 (much less than even a PSP dev kit).I remember when the Xbox 360's software emulation was announced and everyone here pounced on it, saying that software emulation was crap, that there'd be overhead, games wouldn't work, etc.

Now Nintendo announces their "virtual console" (ie. software emulation) and the ability to play Sega Genesis games and they're flippin geniuses!

The double-standard held here is appalling.

[2nyRiggz]

I spend a lot of time on the subway trains(NYC) and i haven't seen one DS....all i see is PSPs(alot) and ipods but never DS. I played my GBA once on the train but this dude was looking me funny so i put it away and turned up my ipod.


Bless

[mrgreen4242]

the discussion is funny because just 2 days ago in the bus me and a friend talked to another guy from university about the topic (we discovered during the lecture that he was at the games convention leipzig as well) and he was literally talking like this: "i'm glad i met you guys i was starting to think that i'm the only gamer at university.." and we're studying computer science with a 90% male ratio ...

another quote "it's hard to find people who playing something besides flash games,WoW or games for mobile phones... even more so for console gamers"

we have typically 15 minute breaks between lectures on university and i have yet to see somebody taking out a handheld ...

that aside mark up another one for the "we are boycotting EA" list ... ;)

Maybe things are just different in Austria than the US/Canada/UK... I also wonder how many people play but just don't talk about it? I don't have a whole ton of gaming friends, mainly because I don't seek gamers out by talking about it with people. Dunno, except that the numbers don't lie: gaming is big business, and it looks like adults are buying a lot if not the majority of the games.

Something else to think on... what do you think Nintendo (who MAKES money every system sold) would rather hav eyou do: buy one $200 console, plus 2 extra controllers @ $20 (one controller for each kid and dad for example), or buy 3 $130 DS's?

[mrgreen4242]

I remember when the Xbox 360's software emulation was announced and everyone here pounced on it, saying that software emulation was crap, that there'd be overhead, games wouldn't work, etc.

Now Nintendo announces their "virtual console" (ie. software emulation) and the ability to play Sega Genesis games and they're flippin geniuses!

The double-standard held here is appalling.

Your comparing apple's and oranges here. Software emulation to emulate last generations 733mhz P3 AND custom, dedicated 3D graphics hardware is COMPLETELY different than software emulating a 15 year old 2D system.

However, it does look like MS pulled it off fairly well.

[Kernow]

Maybe things are just different in Austria than the US/Canada/UK... I also wonder how many people play but just don't talk about it? I don't have a whole ton of gaming friends, mainly because I don't seek gamers out by talking about it with people. Dunno, except that the numbers don't lie: gaming is big business, and it looks like adults are buying a lot if not the majority of the games.

I don't know many people (adults or children) who are gamers either. I'm just basing my comments on what I see on my way into work. Having said that, there are unlikely to be too many children doing the same commute - they are likely to be at school when I'm on the train, so I'd guess that I'm more likely to see adult gamers.

The cultural difference is a good point too

[Eidorian]

I remember when the Xbox 360's software emulation was announced and everyone here pounced on it, saying that software emulation was crap, that there'd be overhead, games wouldn't work, etc.

Now Nintendo announces their "virtual console" (ie. software emulation) and the ability to play Sega Genesis games and they're flippin geniuses!

The double-standard held here is appalling.I emulated SNES and Genesis using a Pentium 133. I can emulate PSX using K6-2 400. I've played SNES games on a Dreamcast too. A triple core PowerPC chip(s) trying to emulate a Pentium III 733 isn't THAT hard to do.

[mrgreen4242]

I emulated SNES and Genesis using a Pentium 133. I can emulate PSX using K6-2 400. I've played SNES games on a Dreamcast too. A triple core PowerPC chip(s) trying to emulate a Pentium III 733 isn't THAT hard to do.

I don't think the issue was with the PPC core(s) emulating the P3, but rather getting code written for a custom NVidia GPU to work on an ATI accelerator, without owning some of the underlying code in the NVidia product...

[Eidorian]

I don't think the issue was with the PPC core(s) emulating the P3, but rather getting code written for a custom NVidia GPU to work on an ATI accelerator, without owning some of the underlying code in the NVidia product...Microsoft got the code for those NVidia features to run on the ATI chip.

[Haoshiro]

And IIRC, Xbox had a Intel Celeron 733.

Back to Nintendo though, I really think Zelda DS and Nintendo's handhelds in general prove their point.

The DS is about equal to a Nintendo 64 and yet people are still all over the system. Granted the screen is smaller, but look at what they are able to get out of it!

Same with GBA, long after the SNES is dead new games are made for the GBA that are excellent AND sell extremely well... Perhaps Nintendo knows what people want better then we do. ;)

[takao]

I remember when the Xbox 360's software emulation was announced and everyone here pounced on it, saying that software emulation was crap, that there'd be overhead, games wouldn't work, etc.

Now Nintendo announces their "virtual console" (ie. software emulation) and the ability to play Sega Genesis games and they're flippin geniuses!

The double-standard held here is appalling.

off topic: on the other side i remember getting bad comments/flamed when i said that microsoft will very likely offer recompiled binaries/patches for selected games available through download... GFLpraxis and others said the same ...

it's one thing to offer old games through emulation (how many people complain about XBLA ? )
but offering "backwards compatibility" through emulation is something different... that's why the ps2 and now the on coming revolution are doing it through compatible hardware (i don't know if they will add a mips cpu into the ps3 )

that aside why are you bringing that up ? want to stir up a discussion .. heh ? ;)

back on discussion:i don't know if the 20-28 year old male computer/gadget geeks at university are for the most part no gamers then i'm not so sure where the huge amounts of adult gamers are ? do they count people playing solitaire/minesweeper as "gamers" ?

you know i'm 22 and i get looked at funny when i say i play on a console (less for the PC) .. by people at my age .. 5-10 years ago it was the most normal thing in the world


edit: afik the xbox cpu is a custom one.. i think it's a celeron with increased cache or some other slight modifications

[mrgreen4242]

Microsoft got the code for those NVidia features to run on the ATI chip.

Well, that explains how they pulled it off, then, doesn't it? ;)

And IIRC, Xbox had a Intel Celeron 733.

Back to Nintendo though, I really think Zelda DS and Nintendo's handhelds in general prove their point.

The DS is about equal to a Nintendo 64 and yet people are still all over the system. Granted the screen is smaller, but look at what they are able to get out of it!

Same with GBA, long after the SNES is dead new games are made for the GBA that are excellent AND sell extremely well... Perhaps Nintendo knows what people want better then we do.

Celeron 733 is still a P3 class CPU, just with less cache. Not really a big issue when it comes to emulating it, as long as you have enough cache (or fast enough memory bus) on the host CPU.

I agree wholeheartedly about the rest, though. The GBA reminded me how great the SNES was, and the DS is competing directly against a power powerful (more expensive) rival and, by most accounts, winning.

I think it boils down to their focus. It seems like everything they try to do, they first think: will this be fun? Not will this be better than the other guys? Or will this sell units? Or how many features can we fit into this? It always seems to come back to having fun, which is what gaming is about.

back on discussion:i don't know if the 20-28 year old male computer/gadget geeks at university are for the most part no gamers then i'm not so sure where the huge amounts of adult gamers are ? do they count people playing solitaire/minesweeper as "gamers" ?

Maybe it is a cultural thing, then. Here I don't ever seem to notice anyone being disparaging about adult gamers. It seems pretty normal for people in their mid to late 20's and beyond to play video games here. Especially men that age, who really grew up on a diet of Nintendo and Atari's. With some of the newer games really moving towards younger girls, women in the older age groups seem to be picking up video games more, too.

My wife (24) NEVER played a NES, SNES, Genesis, Playstation, etc. She does however play Mario Kart and Mario Party more than I do, and is almost always the one who initiates Mario Party games between us. She gets angry, btw, when the MP mini game is one that involves platform jumping type skills. Having never played Mario Bros she gets beat badly by those of us who grew on Super Mario Bros.

[GFLPraxis]

I remember when the Xbox 360's software emulation was announced and everyone here pounced on it, saying that software emulation was crap, that there'd be overhead, games wouldn't work, etc.

Now Nintendo announces their "virtual console" (ie. software emulation) and the ability to play Sega Genesis games and they're flippin geniuses!

The double-standard held here is appalling.

Ugh.

Okay I'll clarify this for you.

The XBox 360 can emulate an NES with no problem. The XBox 360 can emulate a SNES, Genesis, N64, and Playstation with no problem. It might be able to do PS2. But you've got to remember it can only use one of it's processors. You've got to have a system that's at least 10 times more powerful than what you're emulating and you can't use multiple processors to run games that were coded to only use one.

So is *one* of the 360's processors ten times faster than the XBox? Nope. Thus, direct emulation isn't possible. Additionally, the processor design would make x86 emulation very, very difficult as it lacked several processor functions (out of order execution anyone?) that the other one had.


In Nintendo's case, the Revolution uses the same hardware as GameCube so emulation isn't necessary. And it's easy to imagine that the Revolution is more than ten times more powerful than the Genesis, SNES, NES, or N64.

If the Revolution used an x86 processor and Nintendo was saying it wouldn't be that powerful I'd be doubting it's ability to emulate a GameCube. But they've already said it's the same hardware base.

It's no double standard.

You'll also remember that I stated that I thought Microsoft would offer recompiled binaries/patches for each individual game, and people flamed me. Guess what happened?

[GFLPraxis]

I emulated SNES and Genesis using a Pentium 133. I can emulate PSX using K6-2 400. I've played SNES games on a Dreamcast too. A triple core PowerPC chip(s) trying to emulate a Pentium III 733 isn't THAT hard to do.

The issue was that XBox games are single-threaded and can only use *one* processor. So it's a single core PowerPC chip. Next up, that PowerPC chip isn't very fast on it's own and has had a number of features stripped off (like out of order execution) that the XBox had. Plus it doesn't do much work per clock cycle. Arstechnica noted all of this. So that's 1/3rd of the XBox 360 trying to emulate a full XBox- and even ignoring the processor, you had the problem of incompatible graphics chipsets (as XBox games were written and optimized specificly for the NVidia card in the XBox, and the 360 used ATi cards). As you can imagine, this made a true software emulator that works with all games impossible and Microsoft had to write patches on a game-by-game basis.


Celeron 733 is still a P3 class CPU, just with less cache. Not really a big issue when it comes to emulating it, as long as you have enough cache (or fast enough memory bus) on the host CPU.

Actually, I remember reading a discussion about what to classify the XBox as on Tomshardware. They noted that there are some very slight differences between the Celeron and Pentium 3 core other than the cache that makes the Pentium 3 slightly faster- and that the XBox processor was actually the Pentium 3, with half the cache disabled, rather than a Celeron.



Anyway, we're getting WAAAAAAAAAAAY off topic.

Back on topic: anyone notice that Nintendo's giving ANOTHER speech today?
http://www.cmpevents.com/GD06/a.asp?option=G&V=3&id=444777

Touching on the Revolution's online play, at that...

[ChrisK018]

I play my DS at home. [Maybe I'd play my PSP more if there were good games for it besides Lumines-- though the new new Daxter games looks good.] I'm 33, so stigma or not, I feel a little silly playing in public.

The Zelda preview looks amazing. That was my favorite game for the GC, and it looks like that's going to carry over for the DS. Nintendo continues to make the best in-house games. Zelda on the DS... what could be better?

[takao]

Back on topic: anyone notice that Nintendo's giving ANOTHER speech today?
http://www.cmpevents.com/GD06/a.asp?option=G&V=3&id=444777

Touching on the Revolution's online play, at that...

yeah and the best thing is that his name is Takao ;)

i guess it would quite interesting to hear that presentation (since it will be a more technical i guess).. perhaps some small infos though