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bleimone
Mar 25, 2006, 03:18 PM
I have been reading these Windows on Mac forums ever since it was rumored that Apple was going to be switching to Intel and I simply cannot understand why people are so excited to be able to run Windows on Mac hardware. I understand that there are programs that are only for Windows that many people need to use, but the problems with Windows viruses, spamware, and crashing are still going to happen on Mac hardware. It is not the hardware that stops these from happening and I think if people begin switching hoping that Windows is going to work better on a Mac they are in for a rude awakening.

What makes Mac machines so amazing is the combination of both Mac hardware and Mac operating system. Apple creates the hardware to work with the software and vise verse. Some people hate the fact that Apple in there opinions are not willing to share, but personally I think this is what makes there products superior because they can focus on ensuring that their ONE operating system works amazingly on a wide (yet small) range of computer setups.

I think anyone would be stupid to install windows on their mac machine and risk it ruining/crashing their harddrive and loose everything that made that machine sweet - OS X. Unfortunately this could do a lot of harm to Apples image because the uneducated/ignorant person will blame Apple for this screw up and never go back to the Apple world. Yet the real problem is the fact that Microsoft still cannot put a qaulity product out. What is great about America - we don't put up with crap - we complain until something is quality - yet somehow computers do not fit into the category. Windows realizes they can spend less time on good development and still make a great profit.

Just read the news for Vista - every month there is a new delay and its been almost 6 years since there last major release. And it was only recently that XP actually became usable and "Secure" - although I am hesitant to even use those words in the same sentence when discussing windows.

When will people see that Apple is superior and the way to go. Yes you can buy a Dell for $299, but when you try to equip it with programs and security equalling a Mac you're well over $1200 and thats with out a warranty. I just don't get it why people are so hesitant to switch - is it because of the Mac's they experiences in the 90's - yes OS 9 stunk visually/usability but it was solid to the core. OS X sweeps Windows XP and Vista without even breaking a sweat. I think the world would be a much happier place if people opened their eyes and weren't so afraid of the learning curve that must take place once you switch and jumped into the Mac world.

Maybe if Apple spent some marketing time negating the Myth's people have about Mac's maybe that would help. Okay I am done my rant...

Thanks for reading..



Josh396
Mar 25, 2006, 03:23 PM
No one thinks that running it on Windows on Apple hardware is going to prevent virus, spyware, etc., people just want to be able to have one machine. For some people it would be a lot easier and cheaper to have one machine that could run both OS's.

grapes911
Mar 25, 2006, 03:31 PM
I understand that there are programs that are only for Windows that many people need to use, You just answered your entire rant right here. There are somethings that are windows only and dual booting makes it much easier than purchasing two computers.

but the problems with Windows viruses, spamware, and crashing are still going to happen on Mac hardware. And this would still happen if you had two computers, one Mac and one Windows.

I think if people begin switching hoping that Windows is going to work better on a Mac they are in for a rude awakening. No one is switching. For the most part, they are dual booting. Use OS X for everything except those 1 or 2 programs that are windows only.

I think anyone would be stupid to install windows on their mac machine and risk it ruining/crashing their harddrive and loose everything that made that machine sweet - OS X. This isn't how it works. OS X and Windows are are two separate partitions. You can get all the viruses, spyware, crashes, etc in Windows, and it will not effect OS X at all.


Your rant is very disturbing to me. I can't wait until I purchase an Intel Mac (I have 11 month old PB, so it's not happening anytime soon). I have a PC that dual boots Windows and Linux. The Linux is for fun, but Windows is for games, Minitab, and .NET -- three things that are better in the Windows world than the Mac world. Being able to dual boot on one computer and not having to purchase two, would save me a lot of money. If this isn't for you, I can understand. But to rant about something that helps many Mac users is ridiculous. If anything, dual booting will help more people switch to Macs because they won't be confined to OS X.

jkballer23
Mar 25, 2006, 03:37 PM
Mainly for my reason would be for gaming, once they get the video drivers to work correctly. As long as you protect your computer when running Windows, you can be better protected. If you know how to keep Windows protected, then you should have that much of a problem.

someguy
Mar 25, 2006, 03:52 PM
tis easy, windoze iz teh suxxor, but mac hardware iz teh s3x, and dual booting roxx0rs my soxx0rs, so windoze & osx on mac iz teh s3xx0r sox roxx0rs? im confuzed now...
Bear with me, I'm out of work in 10 minutes and have nothing better to do to pass the time.

Os Xp
Mar 25, 2006, 04:34 PM
One word - GAMES!

ChrisBrightwell
Mar 25, 2006, 05:15 PM
I have been reading these Windows on Mac forums ever since it was rumored that Apple was going to be switching to Intel and I simply cannot understand why people are so excited to be able to run Windows on Mac hardware.It's simple.

Some people *have* to use Windows for some tasks but *prefer* to use OS X for most other tasks.

Take me, for example. I'm stuck with Windows for some of my CS-related studies (although most can be handled with OS X) and I prefer the DVDDecrypter+DVDShrink combo to HandBrake or Mac The Ripper. I dabble in web design a bit, so I use Windows-based browsers to test my work.

I also do a little bit of gaming, although school has brought most of that to a halt. I play a lot of Guild Wars when I have the opportunity and most of my old installers are Windows-only. I have a few Mac installers (Q3, Diablo II, StarCraft, and WarCraft III), but I don't want to re-buy games like Neverwinter Nights just to play them natively in OS X.

Then there's an entire market of professionals who are stuck in Windows for some reason or another but prefer Apple's mobile offerings and use OS X for daily tasks (such as email, IM, web browsing, etc).

Machead III
Mar 25, 2006, 05:36 PM
Games games games games games games games games games... and more games! :)

Maxiseller
Mar 25, 2006, 05:44 PM
So, games then right?

DeathChill
Mar 25, 2006, 06:40 PM
Not everything is about games though.

I really don't get why it's so hard for people to see that running Windows on Apple hardware doesn't harm anything. If it screws up it's one command away from being back to the default factory state.

As well, almost everything works on the Mac's (except video for the iMac and Macbook Pro and internal speakers for all of them) in Windows, which I find pretty amazing. You talk about how amazingly well the hardware support is on Mac's, well, Windows covers an even BIGGER collection of hardware.

jalagl
Mar 25, 2006, 11:37 PM
The fun thing is that when the Intel Macs where announced, I thought everybody was going to run OSX on any PC hardware... but what has happened is that people are running Windows on the Intel Macs!!! :eek:

Weird world...

Kingsly
Mar 26, 2006, 01:19 AM
I hear Windows is all the rage in masochist circles. ;)

ghostee
Mar 26, 2006, 02:44 AM
I have been reading these.....blahblahblah

Please don't feed the trolls folks, they are on a strict diet of nonsense and inane rants. Thank you for your cooperation. :D

Machead III
Mar 26, 2006, 02:48 AM
Heh, I only read the topic title, but on hindsight it appears he is indeed a troll.

No wonder, the number of times we have gone over this everyone must have heard the typical arguments a hundred times already.

javierbds
Mar 26, 2006, 05:10 AM
This is my personal experience (no crying please).

My first (paid) working experience was with System7 and Filemaker (1993-1994):

I selected the platform and the sw from what was available at the job. More than 10 years later, I still think I got it right ...
The fact is I annoyed some Win zealot (with power to not renew my job) ...
So I went back to studing (Univ) very annoyed and depressed ... :(
...
Since Win98 there were no longer Apples in my Univ ... In the meantime Next, Newton and other stuff were demoed at my Univ ... When I did some term devs on Oberon (comming from Turbo Pascal/Modula 2/Ada) people looked as if I were a freak ...
...
I returned to the Market in late 2000 (crappy Uni, bad student, idiot study program, and other personal matters ...), bubble starting to burst, OS X starting ...

In 5 years I got only 1 interview to develop plug-ins for Acrobat-Macromedia for the Mac platform ...

So I redirected myself to Sun ... Hw is cool, Solaris as a CLI OS is great and Java has a big market share ...
I have got a little burnt with being a developer for big corps, so now I am teaching ... I have yet to find a Mac again in the places I have worked, there are some in Publishing and the like but not in Telcos or Banks (where I have done dev).
As an individual I use OS X, mass market pushes Wintel machines ...
I no longer really care ...

So OS X and Apple are strong on Publishing, will be again strong on individual users and small teams but, at least on countries where Apple is not highly focused you cannot eat with Apple. I have not the guts, nor the time, not the age anymore to push in this area ...

Apple has still some ground to recover before it is again a top contender. From where I live :
TV Series for iTunes/iPod are available in some countries only ...
Hell, there was even Spanish in Voice Synth-Recog in System8? But it is no longer available ...
Most professionals (not related to Macs) don't know even what Darwin is, they think Macs are for mom and pop.
There is no Apple Retail Store in Spain (where I live)... So I don't live in a "Grade 1" country/city ... ;)
If I want to go to some Cocoa camp (or some Mac related event) , I have to go to another country ...
In late years (since XP), MS has 'infected' Univs with books, courses, offers, sw ... Apple has a Education area but except for discounts, there is not much more (not online)...




OTOH, it is the ability of a platform (or a movement) to embrace and adopt best practices that secures it future.
Nobody this some sense (and I believe people have much common sense for things that matter to them ...) will blame Apple for Win not working specially well on the platform. Apple's take on the issue is very INTELLIGENT:
They will not purposely avoid Win running on their machines
But they will not link the evolution of their platforms to MS in any way (a mistake Intel made ...)
If win has 90% marketshare in its area if you NEED to live with win if you want to survive in that area ...

From the different types of computers users there are, the biggest area where Apple can easily grow are users that want:
-Good Hw
-A good client OS with good multimedia and easy dev support
-The ability to run games
-A sensible price

So what am I describing?
A not top Pro Apple machine with OS X capable of booting Win and some Linux ... :cool:


So why do I use Win/Perl/Java/CLI Unix/* ? Because I have to eat ...
In an ideal world, Kay and others would receive all the merit they deserve, Java would be closer to Smalltalk and sw would have evolved much more ... But sadly, ideal worlds are devoid of matter ... :o , and marketshare, and jobs ...

So now I can pay for a house, have a nice job etc ... Not of that could have been possible on Apple's platform for me. Last year I bought an iBook ... I'll probably buy an iMac when 10.5 is released (and say goodbye to my K7) and if Apple ever releases a PDA/iPod/Newton I'll buy it (?) ...

eXan
Mar 26, 2006, 05:22 AM
I personally dont want Windows, but I want to play some Windows-only games and to run some Windows-only software :) on a Mac, so I dont have to purchase 2 computers

Caezar
Mar 26, 2006, 05:39 AM
I sold my PC today, which leaves me with my Powerbook and Intel Mac. Even though I chose to leave Windows entirely, I do not understand the harsh criticism of Windows.

The last PC I bought was a Dell XPS Gen 2 (purchased in June 2004) and I do not remember it crashed even once. I wish I could say the same of my Macs. They freeze on me and I have to force-quit applications every now and then.

I prefer MacOS because of its looks, the ILife suite and the perfect integration of hardware and software. I did not switch because Windows XP was a bad product. And to say that MacOS is vastly more sstable than XP sounds like hype to me.

Caezar

Machead III
Mar 26, 2006, 05:51 AM
I don't want to sound like a fanboy, but seriously, in terms of UI science and general quality control, XP is pretty poor.

Eraserhead
Mar 26, 2006, 07:33 AM
I sold my PC today, which leaves me with my Powerbook and Intel Mac. Even though I chose to leave Windows entirely, I do not understand the harsh criticism of Windows.

The last PC I bought was a Dell XPS Gen 2 (purchased in June 2004) and I do not remember it crashed even once. I wish I could say the same of my Macs. They freeze on me and I have to force-quit applications every now and then.

I'd say stability was the same for both IMO, at least thats my experience.

technicolor
Mar 26, 2006, 08:01 AM
I swear anyone who asks this question should be damned to the confines of hell for all eternity.

RichP
Mar 26, 2006, 08:22 AM
For me, in industrial design, 2 of the big programs to use are Alias and Solidworks (there are several others too, including Rhino, which I need to get familiar with) Neither of these have Mac varieties, and they have no immediate, or even short/long term plans to offer OSX versions. With my dual boot MBP I use, I can pop into these programs on the road and have access to them. I am getting so much use out of the dual boot already, its a godsend.

And honestly, I love OSX, but a computer is a tool, not a toy. If the right tool is XP, its the tool you need to use, even if its ergonomics are crap, and you have a good chance of losing a finger with it.

That being said, I can now run windows when I need to, and only when I need to, and enjoy OSX for everything else.

emaja
Mar 26, 2006, 09:15 AM
I swear anyone who asks this question should be damned to the confines of hell for all eternity.

Agreed.

What the heck does it matter to you if someone wants to put Windows on their Mac? How on earth does it effect you? Does it diminish your Mac experience? Do you hear a million voices screaming and then stop when someone installs Windows on their Mac?

Really people, move on and get over the fact that someone else has computer needs that are different from your own. Get over the fact that Windows is the dominant OS and is better than the Mac OS for some tasks. Get over the fact that there are some professions that have Windows only software and that those users do no want to use VPC or get a cheap Windows box to run their stuff on.

someguy
Mar 26, 2006, 09:31 AM
Agreed.

What the heck does it matter to you if someone wants to put Windows on their Mac? How on earth does it effect you? Does it diminish your Mac experience? Do you hear a million voices screaming and then stop when someone installs Windows on their Mac?

Really people, move on and get over the fact that someone else has computer needs that are different from your own. Get over the fact that Windows is the dominant OS and is better than the Mac OS for some tasks. Get over the fact that there are some professions that have Windows only software and that those users do no want to use VPC or get a cheap Windows box to run their stuff on.
It doesn't matter to me that someone would want to run Windows on their Mac (although the thought of it does make me throw up in my mouth just a little). What bothers me is the fact that running Windows on a Mac puts Apple one step (albeit a rather small step) closer to becoming a typical PC box.

I know I'm not as up to speed as some of you on Apple's hardware, software, and direction as a company in general, but from what I hear around the forums, it sure does seem like more and more people are experiencing issues that used to take place with 1 in a million Macs. This to me says that the overall product quality from Apple is going down. How long before it reaches the level of the current typical PC?

And to top it off, with OS X running on x86 architecture now, it just feels like the only thing keeping preserving the beloved difference between PC's and Macs is the OS itself, so how long before that turns into just another OS? To me, the Intel switch was the first step in this direction. You may not see it that way, and I hope I am wrong. It's happened before... it'll happen again. :p

Like I said, I am not as up to speed as most of you on what Apple is doing, and what Steve has planned, this is just my opinion based on my perspective, which is basically the reason I cringe when someone mentions running Windows on their Mac.

grapes911
Mar 26, 2006, 12:08 PM
I don't want to sound like a fanboy, but seriously, in terms of UI science and general quality control, XP is pretty poor.
So what? That doesn't matter one bit. I want to play America's Army 2.6. I have two choices:

1. Play on XP which may be a crappy OS
2. Not play at all because it isn't out for OS X yet.

If you where an AA fan (which I'm have no idea if you are or not), which would you choose?

mlrproducts
Mar 26, 2006, 10:11 PM
I think if people begin switching hoping that Windows is going to work better on a Mac they are in for a rude awakening.

Seriously, where do you get this ****? What poll did you read this in? Do you have an insight to people's minds that don't exist? Go home troll.

MrJohnson
Mar 27, 2006, 03:15 AM
I have been reading these Windows on Mac forums ever since it was rumored that Apple was going to be switching to Intel and I simply cannot understand why people are so excited to be able to run Windows on Mac hardware. I understand that there are programs that are only for Windows that many people need to use, but the problems with Windows viruses, spamware, and crashing are still going to happen on Mac hardware. It is not the hardware that stops these from happening and I think if people begin switching hoping that Windows is going to work better on a Mac they are in for a rude awakening.

Remember what Ballmer said? Developers, Developers, Developers, Developers. The Windows Operating System has a HUGE advantage to OSX in terms of application diversity. There are many programs on the PC that just don't appear on the Mac platform.


What makes Mac machines so amazing is the combination of both Mac hardware and Mac operating system. Apple creates the hardware to work with the software and vise verse. Some people hate the fact that Apple in there opinions are not willing to share, but personally I think this is what makes there products superior because they can focus on ensuring that their ONE operating system works amazingly on a wide (yet small) range of computer setups.

No one is debating this fact.


I think anyone would be stupid to install windows on their mac machine and risk it ruining/crashing their harddrive and loose everything that made that machine sweet - OS X. Unfortunately this could do a lot of harm to Apples image because the uneducated/ignorant person will blame Apple for this screw up and never go back to the Apple world. Yet the real problem is the fact that Microsoft still cannot put a qaulity product out. What is great about America - we don't put up with crap - we complain until something is quality - yet somehow computers do not fit into the category. Windows realizes they can spend less time on good development and still make a great profit.

I think you are very wrong with this statement. This sounds like it's comming from someone who has never really used a windows PC as their main computer. For starters, running the Windows operating system will not-and can not destroy any hardware. Also, this notion that Microsoft can't put out a quality product is simply wrong. Windows XP is a wonderful Operating System. Sure it doesn't have a lot of the things included in OSX, and I will agree that OSX is much more user friendly and polished but that simply doesn't make Windows a bad platform. The reason OSX is great? It runs flawlessly on a small number of systems. The reason Windows is great? It runs pretty damn well on a vastly HUGE number of systems. Also, because Windows can't think for itself I don't think it has any say on what goes on during it's development. And I think it's plain ignorant to say that Microsoft doesn't put good development into their operating systems. This next version of Vista has had a very large portion of code rewritten to fix most security and stability concerns, it's going to be leaps and bounds better than Windows XP. Am I saying that Windows is better than OSX? No, I'm saying that Windows is good at doing what Windows does and OSX is wonderful at what OSX does.


Just read the news for Vista - every month there is a new delay and its been almost 6 years since there last major release. And it was only recently that XP actually became usable and "Secure" - although I am hesitant to even use those words in the same sentence when discussing windows.

Actually XP was usable and secure since the begining, if people would make sure to keep their computers up to date they wouldn't have problems. Also if they wouldn't open shady applications and click random pop-ups there wouldn't be such a fuss.


When will people see that Apple is superior and the way to go. Yes you can buy a Dell for $299, but when you try to equip it with programs and security equalling a Mac you're well over $1200 and thats with out a warranty. I just don't get it why people are so hesitant to switch - is it because of the Mac's they experiences in the 90's - yes OS 9 stunk visually/usability but it was solid to the core. OS X sweeps Windows XP and Vista without even breaking a sweat. I think the world would be a much happier place if people opened their eyes and weren't so afraid of the learning curve that must take place once you switch and jumped into the Mac world.

OSX is not always the best way to go. An Example would be the fact that there just arn't enough native apps for OSX. Also this notion that you somehow need to load a computer up with $500 worth of software is just wrong. There are Plenty of free apps that can replace this pay for software. For example, AVG Security is some of the best anti-virus you can get and it's free. Ad-aware, Spybot, and Windows Defender are all excelent, free applications to use to defend against spyware and malware. Open Office is a fabulous office application. Want photo editing, there is GIMP. Maybe there are better versions on OSX, but that doesn't matter, free is free. You should PM me and tell me why you think OSX is so much better than Vista since you seem to know so much about Vista.


Maybe if Apple spent some marketing time negating the Myth's people have about Mac's maybe that would help. Okay I am done my rant...

Thanks for reading..

Maybe you're right. Or maybe Apple has tried that.


Again, am I saying that OSX is a shoddy product and that's why people don't switch? No. Do I think it's a fabulous thing that people can dual-boot? Yes. Why you might ask? People who use OSX have problems just like people who are 'locked into' the windows platform. Each product has their own plusses and the ability to run both on one machine is good FOR EVERYONE.

I'm sorry for any spelling or grammar errors, it's too late at night.

[/rant]

jeffcrew
Mar 27, 2006, 06:30 AM
i spend days without ever having resorting to using a mouse on my windows box. i wish i could say the same for my mac. it seems my hand is permanently glued to that thing.... :-( to me, thats the single most important reason why i stick with windows. i dont play games so i cant use that excuse.

like, whats the equivalent of windows CTRL-ESC then 'R' to run up any app i want? and why cant i open menus with ALT-[menu letter]? maybe i just dont know these secret commands yet....

that said, i will still be putting in my order for a macbook in the very near future :-) although i suspect i wont ever try and get it dual booting - i'll just hold out for virtual pc.

DeeJay Dan
Mar 27, 2006, 07:09 AM
i spend days without ever having resorting to using a mouse on my windows box. i wish i could say the same for my mac. it seems my hand is permanently glued to that thing.... :-( to me, thats the single most important reason why i stick with windows. i dont play games so i cant use that excuse.

like, whats the equivalent of windows CTRL-ESC then 'R' to run up any app i want? and why cant i open menus with ALT-[menu letter]? maybe i just dont know these secret commands yet....

that said, i will still be putting in my order for a macbook in the very near future :-) although i suspect i wont ever try and get it dual booting - i'll just hold out for virtual pc.

You don't need the esc in there just WinKey + R is run, WinKey + D is show desktop (works great if something if forcing a screen lock) WinKey + L takes you back to the login screen (locks computer, if password enabled) Alt + tab cycles through open Windows.

Alt + F4 usually closes a program

and the most important key combo

Ctrl + Alt + Del brings up task manager to kill frozen programs [of course if the whole freaking computer didn't freeze :D]

I typed all this out and just realized you're looking for a mac alternative to window's command. If I remember correctly, haven't used OS X in a while the AppleKey + plus letter is for drop downs.

As for the open any app. Configure a keyboard shortcut for terminal, you can open any app from there although you may have to learn a few Unix commands like sudo. It's probably easier just to use the icons then type out a full path in terminal though.

Kernow
Mar 27, 2006, 07:15 AM
As for the open any app. Configure a keyboard shortcut for terminal, you can open any app from there although you may have to learn a few Unix commands like sudo. It's probably easier just to use the icons then type out a full path in terminal though.

Alternatively, download Quicksilver (http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/22549)- a very useful app which can be used as a launcher (amongst other things). You don't even need to type the full name of the app you want to run, just the first couple of letters and it's away. :)

supremedesigner
Mar 27, 2006, 08:41 AM
If I have intel mac...I personally would rather install PC games and some softwares RATHER than installing CRAPPY XPee OS! :p ;)

Seasought
Mar 27, 2006, 09:36 AM
Yes you can play games on a Mac. I'm referring to the majority of mainstream, current titles and the newest games that come out. This is probably the biggest argument against buying a Mac I've heard. If someone is a gamer why would they want to cripple themselves by adopting an OS that doesn't support "all the new games"?

blackstone
Mar 27, 2006, 10:03 AM
As for the open any app. Configure a keyboard shortcut for terminal, you can open any app from there although you may have to learn a few Unix commands like sudo. It's probably easier just to use the icons then type out a full path in terminal though.

It's not even as hard as that. Say that you're trying to open up iTunes...

From Terminal:
open -a itunes
Without using Terminal:
Hit Ctrl-Space to open up spotlight, type in "itunes" and then hit Cmd-Enter to select and run the first entry. iTunes will launch.

cgratti
Mar 28, 2006, 10:01 PM
Gaming only... at least for me...

LimeiBook86
Mar 28, 2006, 10:55 PM
I have to use Windows once and a while, especially since my 3D Studio Max started I have to use the program, which is Windows only. Of course if Windows ran flawlessly on my iMac I could also play games on my intel Mac thus eliminating the need for my PC tower. Of course that is if full accelerated graphics support eventually works in Windows XP on a Mac. It'll happen one day but, until then I'll have to use my Windows PC when I need to run something my Mac can't. :)

trogdor!
Mar 30, 2006, 03:39 PM
The fun thing is that when the Intel Macs where announced, I thought everybody was going to run OSX on any PC hardware... but what has happened is that people are running Windows on the Intel Macs!!! :eek:

Weird world...

The os x on pc topic is alive and well, on this forum however, windown on intel macs is more of the concern. But I have seen people with os x on their pc's already.

janey
Mar 30, 2006, 04:30 PM
I don't want to sound like a fanboy, but seriously, in terms of UI science and general quality control, XP is pretty poor.
That it is, but the same could be said towards Apple as well in terms of IxD and such.

jeffcrew - it's doable. navigating with the keyboard is an essential part of apple's accessibility features, especially voiceover. control+option+m goes to the menu bar..et cetera.

I'm gonna try to resist feeding the troll, but just as a comment, a lot of stuff I use for school is easier done (or, can only be done) on linux/windows. games are also part of it, but I can live without the games...however I can't live not doing homework assignments and failing classes just because I didn't wanna install XP on a computer to run visual studio or something inane like that.

That being said, I have a dedicated box I just VNC into for such purposes, and have another one running only gentoo, so I'm not much into installing windows on my mac (rebooting is a pain)