PDA

View Full Version : BootCamp + External Drive




derajfast
Apr 5, 2006, 03:26 PM
Can I put the bootcamp xp pro partition on an external drive? i only have 8 or so gb left on my internal, but have about 80gb on my external

would that work? or do they have to be on the same drive



Saladin
Apr 5, 2006, 03:28 PM
Good question, this needs to be answered. I have heard people say 'no', but they did not cite a source for their claim. I too want to boot on an external hard drive with my Macbook Pro.

derajfast
Apr 5, 2006, 03:30 PM
Good question, this needs to be answered. I have heard people say 'no', but they did not cite a source for their claim. I too want to boot on an external hard drive with my Macbook Pro.

yeah me too

if i can put it on my external, i will do it....if not, ill figure it out later rather then sooner

but id really like this to be answered

plinden
Apr 5, 2006, 03:38 PM
Page 7 of the instructions (http://images.apple.com/macosx/bootcamp/pdf/Boot_Camp_Beta_Setup_Guide.pdf) (my emphasis below):

Windows XP requires its own partition on your computer's internal startup disk. Boot Camp Assistant creates a second partition on your startup disk ...

derajfast
Apr 5, 2006, 03:41 PM
oh man thats annoying

CanadaRAM
Apr 5, 2006, 03:45 PM
Thanks Plinden, beat me to it ;)

For this and all the other threads saying "can you..." "will it... "

Read The Docs First!

FAQs
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=303572

Installation Guide
http://images.apple.com/macosx/bootcamp/pdf/Boot_Camp_Beta_Setup_Guide.pdf

crazycat
Apr 5, 2006, 03:46 PM
I am planing on giving my Mac OS X 70GM and Bootcamp windows 30GB, that will give me enough space for everything i need plus i have a 80GB external HD for storing movies.

Phil A.
Apr 5, 2006, 05:11 PM
When I installed on my mini, the XP Installer recognised the USB drive I had plugged in, so it may be possible to actually do the install onto an external drive, but you will still need to allocate the partition in Bootcamp with a minimum of 5GB. I must emphasise that I haven't tried to install to an external drive, so I don't know if it works or not

Kreger
Apr 5, 2006, 05:24 PM
I plan on installing xp with my macbook, for valves steam games. But i wonder if you can install it on your primary drive then use carbon copy clone or superduper! it to an external firewire. FUD aside I'd like to have Windows 'over there'

well find out soon, I still need to pick up windows, the local computer shop (infotechnow) has it for 86 (86 bucks for a 5 year old os?) but it says I need to make an internal hardware purchase, humm, I hope a case fan counts.

derajfast
Apr 5, 2006, 07:37 PM
well if anyone hears anything or figures out a workaround, please let me know

i wont put windows on this hard drive....only the external....i hate windows hierarchal scheming

will spotlight pick up windows files too?

ipedro
Apr 6, 2006, 12:37 AM
The FIRMWARE upgrade is what allows Windows to run the Mac, not Boot Camp. Bootcamp is just a simple interface that guides you.

Once you install the firmware upgrade which allows for BIOS, then boot from the Windows CD (hold C during startup) and follow the regular Windows setup procedure while selecting your external drive partition to install Windows on to.

After installation, according to http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=75459 "Press Option-Command-Shift-Delete during startup to Bypass primary startup volume and seek a different startup volume (such as a CD or external disk)". At this point, you'll be able to select your external drive to boot from. Since Windows will be installed there, you'll boot Windows.

Note: I would use Boot Camp to create the driver CD which will allow Windows to support your Mac's hardware properly.

esaleris
Apr 6, 2006, 01:28 AM
The FIRMWARE upgrade is what allows Windows to run the Mac, not Boot Camp. Bootcamp is just a simple interface that guides you.

Once you install the firmware upgrade which allows for BIOS, then boot from the Windows CD (hold C during startup) and follow the regular Windows setup procedure while selecting your external drive partition to install Windows on to.

After installation, according to http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=75459 "Press Option-Command-Shift-Delete during startup to Bypass primary startup volume and seek a different startup volume (such as a CD or external disk)". At this point, you'll be able to select your external drive to boot from. Since Windows will be installed there, you'll boot Windows.

Note: I would use Boot Camp to create the driver CD which will allow Windows to support your Mac's hardware properly.

So you're saying that if I get the firmware installed, I could wipe one of my three current partitions, hold down "C" on startup, and just directly install to the wiped drive? No need to have Boot Camp do setup or anything (besides creating a drivers disc)?

balamw
Apr 6, 2006, 01:41 AM
The fact remains that Windows XP itself is not designed to boot from an external USB or FireWire drive, it has the bad habit of stopping and restarting the USB/FW drivers during the boot process. So in order to boot Windows from a removable device you either have to:


hack it (http://www.ngine.de/index.jsp?pageid=4176) so it won't stop the drivers on boot
have the BIOS make the drive look like an internal drive to Windows
run Windows PE (http://www.nu2.nu/pebuilder/) or XP Embedded from the device instead
Wait for third party (http://www.sureboot.com) custom solutions.


Unless the firmware update is up to fooling XP that it's running on a internal drive, I doubt it'll work strictly on an external drive.

B

ipedro
Apr 6, 2006, 02:02 AM
So you're saying that if I get the firmware installed, I could wipe one of my three current partitions, hold down "C" on startup, and just directly install to the wiped drive? No need to have Boot Camp do setup or anything (besides creating a drivers disc)?

Exactly my friend. I can confirm that this works. I ran into a minor issue when I tried to install Windows using my above described method, none of the partitions were recognized properly (including size) so I couldn't distinguish which one was my internal drive and which ones were my external partitions.

So I simply went into the Terminal under OSX and formatted my external drive as FAT32

newfs_msdos -F32 /dev/rdisk#s1

(rdisk#s1 being my partition's ID ... you need to check that before you run this command)

I then went booted my MacBook Pro from the Windows CD by holding C on startup, installed WindowsXP flawlessly (mind you, I could have installed VISTA, WinME, Linux, whatever) and then booted into Windows after installation by holding CMD+OPTION+SHIFT+DEL at startup.

The final step was to install the drivers that Boot Camp created previously.

Voilá. You read it here first! (Do I get $13,000? ;) )

This is the perfect solution for me. I don't put crappy old windows living with OSX on the same drive but I get to keep an external drive on my desk at work. When I arrive at work I simply plug in the external drive, boot into Windows and work on that all day. When I get home, I run OSX.

Lovin' It.

lhawkins
Apr 6, 2006, 02:09 AM
I'm posting from my Mini in XP right now. I couldn't run apple's utility because I don't have OS X installed on the internal drive. (Its on a 500GB drive in a MiniStack) The internal drive was blank. It was still very easy to get XP installed to the internal drive.

1. Flash the firmware with the new update.
2. Burn a XP install CD.
3. View package contents on the bootcamp thing in /Applications/Utilities
4. inside the Contents/Resources folder you will find a disk image.
5. Burn this image (this is the drivers and apps necessary once Windows is installed)
6. For safety's sake, I then shut down the Mini and disconnected the external Firewire drive with the Mac OS on it. I then put in the XP CD and installed XP normally, it was exactly as it would be installing on a "real" PC. After installation some drivers were missing. I then used the other CD to run the Apple installer under Windows and everything is working properly.

There are two devices listed as "Unknown" or "Unknown PCI" in the Device Manager, however both Airport and Bluetooth work so I don't really know what those devices are. Another strange thing is that after reconnecting the the firewire drive with OS X on it it shows up in Disk Management under Windows as a Healthy GPT Protecitve Partition. I can now dual boot using the option key on startup perfectly. I believe that If I had more firewire drives I could boot more OS's in the same way. The firmware is the ONLY thing that makes this work. The drivers are a nice extra, but they are not even really necessary to get Windows up and running.

thefunkymunky
Apr 6, 2006, 02:46 AM
Does this work with external FW disks or is it only USB2?

ipedro
Apr 6, 2006, 03:04 AM
^Mine was using a Firewire drive with a single partition.

ipedro
Apr 6, 2006, 03:04 AM
... Next challenge. To run Windows from my old 4G iPod!

erkanasu
Apr 6, 2006, 03:01 PM
... Next challenge. To run Windows from my old 4G iPod!


hahaa thats a awesome idea

glorfindeal
Apr 6, 2006, 03:45 PM
Exactly my friend. I can confirm that this works. I ran into a minor issue when I tried to install Windows using my above described method, none of the partitions were recognized properly (including size) so I couldn't distinguish which one was my internal drive and which ones were my external partitions.

So I simply went into the Terminal under OSX and formatted my external drive as FAT32

newfs_msdos -F32 /dev/rdisk#s1

(rdisk#s1 being my partition's ID ... you need to check that before you run this command)

I then went booted my MacBook Pro from the Windows CD by holding C on startup, installed WindowsXP flawlessly (mind you, I could have installed VISTA, WinME, Linux, whatever) and then booted into Windows after installation by holding CMD+OPTION+SHIFT+DEL at startup.

The final step was to install the drivers that Boot Camp created previously.

Voilá. You read it here first! (Do I get $13,000? ;) )

This is the perfect solution for me. I don't put crappy old windows living with OSX on the same drive but I get to keep an external drive on my desk at work. When I arrive at work I simply plug in the external drive, boot into Windows and work on that all day. When I get home, I run OSX.

Lovin' It.

How did you get XP to boot off a firewire drive. It is not supposed to support firewire booting.

Glor

MacRumorsReader
Apr 6, 2006, 05:24 PM
... Next challenge. To run Windows from my old 4G iPod!
I actually have a boot-able version of OS X on my 1G 20g iPod!

(Careful, it gets really hot in that little drive!)

balamw
Apr 7, 2006, 12:36 AM
How did you get XP to boot off a firewire drive. It is not supposed to support firewire booting.
Assuming this actually does work, the only explanation is that the firmware provides its own firewire drivers so that (as far as the boot process is concerned at least) the drive can be accessed through standard BIOS calls, as if it was an internal drive. This is essentially what most modern PC BIOSes do to provide support for USB keyboards and mice and USB devices during boot.

B

bugfaceuk
Apr 7, 2006, 08:56 AM
Has anyone managed the "install on external" with a USB 2.0 drive?

JayMak
Apr 7, 2006, 03:23 PM
I can report that I can see my external USB drive in the Mac Startup menu and it was visible to XP when installing, so I could have selected it to install to. Just don't have a external drive ready to test just yet.

I'd like to have just OS X on the Mac internal drive and XP external or maybe even the other way around.

So once the firmware is installed can you use the option key (or alt) to select a boot drive, like when you use BootCamp to partition.

Is BootCamp Assistant installing a partition manager or is the firmware?

Can OS X or XP then be installed to either drive?

bugfaceuk
Apr 7, 2006, 03:31 PM
I can report that I can see my external USB drive in the Mac Startup menu and it was visible to XP when installing, so I could have selected it to install to. Just don't have a external drive ready to test just yet.

I'd like to have just OS X on the Mac internal drive and XP external or maybe even the other way around.

So once the firmware is installed can you use the option key (or alt) to select a boot drive, like when you use BootCamp to partition.

Is BootCamp Assistant installing a partition manager or is the firmware?

Can OS X or XP then be installed to either drive?

I'm going to be giving this a go with a firewire drive first, then with a usb 2.0 drive... I can barely wait! Creating slip-stream now, firmware upgrade in a second.....

JayMak
Apr 7, 2006, 03:48 PM
Great look forward to hear your results, too bad XP takes so darn long to install I'd like to test some things as well...

Just had a big success here, I managed to get MCE 2005 to install!
Had to copy disc 2 of the install to a USB drive, then point to it when needed during the install as drive D:.

Drivers installed without issue too.

diablakis
Apr 7, 2006, 04:01 PM
Tried to install XP on my external drive following the instructions from ipedro but no success story here. :mad: :( :( :( :(
When I connect my external drive with firewire, the windows installer sees the drive but if I select it I receive a message saying that windows cannot communicate with this drive. When I connect my external with usb, once again the windows installer sees the drive but if I select it I receive a message that windows can be installed in this drive only if the installer writes some files to the internal drive. But since the internal drive is formatted with OSX, the installer cannot write anything to it. And it suggests to delete the unknown (macos) partition and create a new one.

20 inch iMac, USB2/Firewire ICYBOX (Prolific PL3507 combo device)

Electro Funk
Apr 7, 2006, 04:08 PM
well if anyone hears anything or figures out a workaround, please let me know

i wont put windows on this hard drive....only the external....i hate windows hierarchal scheming

will spotlight pick up windows files too?

no

Electro Funk
Apr 7, 2006, 04:17 PM
Tried to install XP on my external drive following the instructions from ipedro but no success story here. :mad: :( :( :( :(
When I connect my external drive with firewire, the windows installer sees the drive but if I select it I receive a message saying that windows cannot communicate with this drive. When I connect my external with usb, once again the windows installer sees the drive but if I select it I receive a message that windows can be installed in this drive only if the installer writes some files to the internal drive. But since the internal drive is formatted with OSX, the installer cannot write anything to it. And it suggests to delete the unknown (macos) partition and create a new one.

20 inch iMac, USB2/Firewire ICYBOX (Prolific PL3507 combo device)

why not let boot camp make a small partition (say 5 gigs) for xp and let it install those few files? Then it might let you proceed with install on external drive...

bugfaceuk
Apr 7, 2006, 05:03 PM
why not let boot camp make a small partition (say 5 gigs) for xp and let it install those few files? Then it might let you proceed with install on external drive...

That's what I'm doing now, I think either this chap had a better firewire drive that could do more... or the MacBook Pro has a better firewire controller....

Hey ho! Isn't he a lucky chap!

diablakis
Apr 7, 2006, 05:11 PM
why not let boot camp make a small partition (say 5 gigs) for xp and let it install those few files? Then it might let you proceed with install on external drive...

Interesting idea...I'll try it soon. I just finished the installation of XP on the internal HD. It works fine and I can say that I am impressed with the speed (compared to my athlon XP 2100+).

balamw
Apr 8, 2006, 11:45 AM
I was also not able to install to an external 20 GB drive in a cheap USB/FW enclosure. I was trying two things at once to see if I could use the external drive or a USB flash drive to provide the upgrade qualification files from Windows ME install disc, but with either external drives connected during the install, the boot from CD would hang indefinitely at the "Starting Windows" phase after all the drivers are loaded.

Finally got it installed to a 10 GB internal partition, and I may try running the installer from within Windows to get it on the external and see if I can boot from the external only.

B

MacRumorUser
Apr 9, 2006, 05:57 AM
I was trying last night to get it booting from an external drive but no luck.

Frist I cloned the working windows HD to my external drive

Then rebooted an tried the command, option, shift + delete starup command but it wouldnt show up? :confused:

MovieCutter
Apr 12, 2006, 10:52 AM
Any one else having any luck?

JayMak
Apr 15, 2006, 08:23 PM
External XP boot Success reported here, somewhat complex to mod the install disc...

http://forum.onmac.net/showthread.php?t=1015

MacRumorUser
Apr 15, 2006, 08:29 PM
:( :( That doesnt work. I've already tried.

And if you have to keep your 5gb partition then you may aswell just keep you windows xp on it and then use an external for programs full stop...

It will take Apple to introduce an update to bootcamp to allow external hd installation and booting.

Nar1117
Apr 15, 2006, 09:41 PM
Exactly my friend. I can confirm that this works. I ran into a minor issue when I tried to install Windows using my above described method, none of the partitions were recognized properly (including size) so I couldn't distinguish which one was my internal drive and which ones were my external partitions.

So I simply went into the Terminal under OSX and formatted my external drive as FAT32

newfs_msdos -F32 /dev/rdisk#s1

(rdisk#s1 being my partition's ID ... you need to check that before you run this command)

I then went booted my MacBook Pro from the Windows CD by holding C on startup, installed WindowsXP flawlessly (mind you, I could have installed VISTA, WinME, Linux, whatever) and then booted into Windows after installation by holding CMD+OPTION+SHIFT+DEL at startup.

The final step was to install the drivers that Boot Camp created previously.

Voilá. You read it here first! (Do I get $13,000? ;) )

This is the perfect solution for me. I don't put crappy old windows living with OSX on the same drive but I get to keep an external drive on my desk at work. When I arrive at work I simply plug in the external drive, boot into Windows and work on that all day. When I get home, I run OSX.

Lovin' It.

Is the problem you described above only due to the fact that you had multiple partitions on your internal? From your first post, it sounded very simple, and i hope that it is.

Also, just to clarify:

1. Install firmware into OS X.
2. Restart.
3. Boot from XP CD using 'C' Key.
4. Select external Hdd.
5. Install XP
6. restart, and use option+command+shift+delete to select boot drive.
7. install drivers created using boot camp.

I have a few questions regarding the above method. Am i right in thinking that the firmware update allows for step #3 to work? I think you mentioned that the firmware update is for running BIOS. What will the external hdd show up as, when you are given a choice on which hdd you want to install to? How will you know it is the right one? Lastly... Is the option+command+shift+delete key-combo essentially performing the same operation as holding down the option key when booting from one disk?

I hope i make sense... and thanks in advance if you can answer my questions.

Nar

MacRumorUser
Apr 16, 2006, 08:48 AM
Is the problem you described above only due to the fact that you had multiple partitions on your internal? From your first post, it sounded very simple, and i hope that it is.

Also, just to clarify:

1. Install firmware into OS X.
2. Restart.
3. Boot from XP CD using 'C' Key.
4. Select external Hdd.
5. Install XP
6. restart, and use option+command+shift+delete to select boot drive.
7. install drivers created using boot camp.

I have a few questions regarding the above method. Am i right in thinking that the firmware update allows for step #3 to work? I think you mentioned that the firmware update is for running BIOS. What will the external hdd show up as, when you are given a choice on which hdd you want to install to? How will you know it is the right one? Lastly... Is the option+command+shift+delete key-combo essentially performing the same operation as holding down the option key when booting from one disk?

I hope i make sense... and thanks in advance if you can answer my questions.

Nar

I tried that already, but when you go to choose the external HD, windows tells you it cant be installed on that drive? I formatted it in both NTFS & Fat32 but no luck....

Nar1117
Apr 16, 2006, 12:10 PM
huh... Well it seems like it should work... I wonder how ipedro got it to work...

Probably has to do with the type or brand of hard drive.

derajfast
Apr 18, 2006, 09:08 PM
i dont understand why this wouldnt work.....

i just instaleld OS X on my external drive, and downloaded boot camp on it. but it wont even let me put the windows partition on it, even though im booting off it, saying i need to have the partition on the internal

Harryc
May 27, 2006, 08:47 AM
Exactly my friend. I can confirm that this works. I ran into a minor issue when I tried to install Windows using my above described method, none of the partitions were recognized properly (including size) so I couldn't distinguish which one was my internal drive and which ones were my external partitions.

So I simply went into the Terminal under OSX and formatted my external drive as FAT32

newfs_msdos -F32 /dev/rdisk#s1

(rdisk#s1 being my partition's ID ... you need to check that before you run this command)

I then went booted my MacBook Pro from the Windows CD by holding C on startup, installed WindowsXP flawlessly (mind you, I could have installed VISTA, WinME, Linux, whatever) and then booted into Windows after installation by holding CMD+OPTION+SHIFT+DEL at startup.

The final step was to install the drivers that Boot Camp created previously.

Voilá. You read it here first! (Do I get $13,000? ;) )

This is the perfect solution for me. I don't put crappy old windows living with OSX on the same drive but I get to keep an external drive on my desk at work. When I arrive at work I simply plug in the external drive, boot into Windows and work on that all day. When I get home, I run OSX.

Lovin' It.
Ipedro, I have a couple of questions for you. First, did you use a MBR or a GUID partition table option when you set up the partition in disk utility? Can you check it please? Also, what is the manufacturer and model of your external firewire drive? Capacity? I am unable to get this to work on my 160GB WD external firewire drive. XP sees the FAT32 partition, but when I try to install XP on it it says "Your computers startup program cannot gain access to the disk ....may indicate a CMOS drive type setting issue." I did try the format command you indicated, and I also tried every format and partition option in disk utility that I could think of. At the present time I am leaning towards a Firewire Drive firmware issue. Any thoughts?

ljump12
Jul 6, 2006, 04:26 PM
Ipedro, I have a couple of questions for you. First, did you use a MBR or a GUID partition table option when you set up the partition in disk utility? Can you check it please? Also, what is the manufacturer and model of your external firewire drive? Capacity? I am unable to get this to work on my 160GB WD external firewire drive. XP sees the FAT32 partition, but when I try to install XP on it it says "Your computers startup program cannot gain access to the disk ....may indicate a CMOS drive type setting issue." I did try the format command you indicated, and I also tried every format and partition option in disk utility that I could think of. At the present time I am leaning towards a Firewire Drive firmware issue. Any thoughts?

BUMP; same problems; any ideas?

Harryc
Jul 6, 2006, 04:54 PM
No ideas on firewire, but I was going to try USB2 when I get a chance. If anyone tries this please post results.

http://www.ngine.de/index.jsp?pageid=4176

mklos
Jul 12, 2006, 08:38 PM
Maybe this only works with certain FireWire/USB 2 chipsets?

mrichmon
Jul 13, 2006, 02:45 AM
No ideas on firewire, but I was going to try USB2 when I get a chance. If anyone tries this please post results.

http://www.ngine.de/index.jsp?pageid=4176

I completed an install of Windows XP onto an external USB/Firewire drive (using USB) with my MacBook last weekend. Apart from the pagefile problem noted on that site it works fine. Not having a pagefile for Windows is not a big deal for me since I have 2GB of RAM installed.

There is a small problem in that holding down command-option-shift when booting to select an external drive will not boot Windows off my USB drive for some reason. Instead, I have to go to the Startup Disk preference pane/control panel each time I want to switch which OS I boot into.

I have also found a way to prevent Spotlight from indexing the NTFS partition when I connect the external drive to OS X. Details posted in another thread: http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=216245

mrichmon
Jul 13, 2006, 03:12 AM
I'm going to be giving this a go with a firewire drive first, then with a usb 2.0 drive... I can barely wait! Creating slip-stream now, firmware upgrade in a second.....

Firewire will not work. The Windows XP installer refuses to install onto a Firewire disk even though the disk is visible at the Windows partitioning stage.

With a USB drive, you will be able to partition and format the drive but later in the installation you will get errors that cause the installation to abort. Even if you could complete the installtion Windows will blue screen during the boot process because Windows unloads and reloads the USB drivers part-way through the boot process.

However all is not lost. By following the instructions linked to earlier in this thread you can create a modified Windows install CD that will install Windows onto a USB drive and have it result in a working Windows installation. I performed the installation of Windows onto an external USB drive last weekend and can verify that a "normal" Windows XP install CD will not work.

mrichmon
Jul 13, 2006, 03:25 AM
After installation, according to http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=75459 "Press Option-Command-Shift-Delete during startup to Bypass primary startup volume and seek a different startup volume (such as a CD or external disk)". At this point, you'll be able to select your external drive to boot from. Since Windows will be installed there, you'll boot Windows.

If you install Windows on an external USB drive then the Option-Command-Shift-Delete key combination will not boot your external drive. The only way I have found to boot Windows from an external drive is to select the Windows installation in the Startup Disk preference panel.

I suspect that the Apple firmware is looking for a GPT partition table when selecting bootable drives. If you install Windows directly without using BootCamp then the Windows drive will end up with only a MBR partition table.

7on
Jul 13, 2006, 08:44 AM
If you install Windows on an external USB drive then the Option-Command-Shift-Delete key combination will not boot your external drive. The only way I have found to boot Windows from an external drive is to select the Windows installation in the Startup Disk preference panel.

I suspect that the Apple firmware is looking for a GPT partition table when selecting bootable drives. If you install Windows directly without using BootCamp then the Windows drive will end up with only a MBR partition table.

Though holding down option will show PC bootable HDD disks. Those aren't GPT partitions.

MacRumorUser
Jul 13, 2006, 09:06 AM
There's still no way of avoiding having to create a 5gb partition on your boot drive is there?

mrichmon
Jul 13, 2006, 12:12 PM
Though holding down option will show PC bootable HDD disks. Those aren't GPT partitions.

Only PC bootable partitions on the internal drive. If the internal drive has OS X installed then it has a GPT partition table.

Any disk that boots OS X on an intel Mac has to be a GPT table. If you install Windows using BootCamp you end up with 3 partitions on your internal drive an OS X boot partition, an OS X partition and a Windows partition. All three partitions are defined in a GPT partition table.

In addition to the GPT partition table the disk will also have a MBR partition table. A significant part of the pre-BootCamp install process for Windows involved hacking around to create the correct pair of partitions on the drive.

Donz0r
Jul 13, 2006, 02:26 PM
Can you Make two partitions on an External HDD with DIFFERENT FORMATS?

Can I format 40 gigs with NTFS and 40 gigs with something that works with OS X and can transfer Large Files?

Or is there a universal formatting that can transfer large files?

balamw
Jul 13, 2006, 02:32 PM
Or is there a universal formatting that can transfer large files?
How large is large. FAT32 would work, but has a 4GB limit on file size...

B

Donz0r
Jul 13, 2006, 02:40 PM
Larger than 4GB is what i was going for.

Can i make 2 partitions on an external drive with 2 different formats?

balamw
Jul 13, 2006, 02:54 PM
Can i make 2 partitions on an external drive with 2 different formats?
Sure. http://www.macosxhints.com/article.php?story=20030613121738812 (Substitute NTFS for FAT32 if you so desire.)

[Or get MacDrive and format the whole thing HFS+]

B

Donz0r
Jul 13, 2006, 03:02 PM
thanks

Lessthntim
Aug 9, 2006, 09:58 AM
Exactly my friend. I can confirm that this works. I ran into a minor issue when I tried to install Windows using my above described method, none of the partitions were recognized properly (including size) so I couldn't distinguish which one was my internal drive and which ones were my external partitions.

So I simply went into the Terminal under OSX and formatted my external drive as FAT32

newfs_msdos -F32 /dev/rdisk#s1

(rdisk#s1 being my partition's ID ... you need to check that before you run this command)

I then went booted my MacBook Pro from the Windows CD by holding C on startup, installed WindowsXP flawlessly (mind you, I could have installed VISTA, WinME, Linux, whatever) and then booted into Windows after installation by holding CMD+OPTION+SHIFT+DEL at startup.

The final step was to install the drivers that Boot Camp created previously.

Voilá. You read it here first! (Do I get $13,000? ;) )

This is the perfect solution for me. I don't put crappy old windows living with OSX on the same drive but I get to keep an external drive on my desk at work. When I arrive at work I simply plug in the external drive, boot into Windows and work on that all day. When I get home, I run OSX.

Lovin' It.


I just got the macbook pro 17" and so far i'm cool with it, but i'm having problems with the whole windows deal. I partitioned the internal HD as soon as i got it for media and for hopefully windows. It is not letting me format my partition to FAT32 nor does it recognize the windows XP cd i have when i start up. I have tried to download all of the FIRMWARE updates, but they won't install because it says my computer is up to date! Any ideas of what i'm doing wrong??

Thanks!:D

rjr8222
Aug 9, 2006, 03:13 PM
[QUOTE=ipedro]Exactly my friend. I can confirm that this works. I then went booted my MacBook Pro from the Windows CD by holding C on startup, installed WindowsXP flawlessly (mind you, I could have installed VISTA, WinME, Linux, whatever) and then booted into Windows after installation by holding CMD+OPTION+SHIFT+DEL at startup. The final step was to install the drivers that Boot Camp created previously.

I got everything to work as you suggested, but when it was time to actually install winXP, I get a failure message indicating that Windows cannot install on the selected disk with the suggestion that perhaps some drivers are missing.

Hmmm.

Ideas?

BTW, I'm working on a new MacBook that has already successfully installed Boot Camp on the internal disk and has already successfully run WinXP from that BootCamp partitition. Therefore, I assume that I already have all of the appropriate firmware updates in place.

balamw
Aug 9, 2006, 03:33 PM
I just got the macbook pro 17" and so far i'm cool with it, but i'm having problems with the whole windows deal. I partitioned the internal HD as soon as i got it for media and for hopefully windows. It is not letting me format my partition to FAT32 nor does it recognize the windows XP cd i have when i start up. I have tried to download all of the FIRMWARE updates, but they won't install because it says my computer is up to date! Any ideas of what i'm doing wrong??

Thanks!:D
1) Are you using the Terminal commands newfs_msdos -F32 as above or just trying to use Boot Camp.

2) Just leave the CD in the drive and reboot your Mac. Hold down Option and it should offer you the chance to boot from the CD-ROM and install... Without trying to check your media. (Aside: It would help to tell us what is the origin/version of the XP SP2 CD-ROM you are using?)

B

Lessthntim
Aug 9, 2006, 04:31 PM
I used the terminal commands to format the hard drive but it's not fooling the windows XP installer. I managed to get the mac to recognize m XP cd, but now it realizes the drive is not internal. Any other ideas to fool the xp installer so it thinks its a regular hard drive?

mrichmon
Aug 9, 2006, 04:42 PM
I used the terminal commands to format the hard drive but it's not fooling the windows XP installer. I managed to get the mac to recognize m XP cd, but now it realizes the drive is not internal. Any other ideas to fool the xp installer so it thinks its a regular hard drive?

Remove the internal drive before you start the XP install and you will not have this problem. Although, if you are trying this on a MacBook Pro you are out of luck.

JurgenWigg
Aug 9, 2006, 05:41 PM
what if you install windows on an internal drive (fully replacing OS X) and then swap it into an enclosure?

rjr8222
Aug 9, 2006, 07:15 PM
what if you install windows on an internal drive (fully replacing OS X) and then swap it into an enclosure?

I just tried this and have succeeded in getting Windows installed on an internal disk with no Mac OS (and no BootCamp) installed anywhere on the system. My MacBook is now fully a WinTel machine.

I have also attached an OsX external disk via FireWire and have verified that I can boot to either the external Firewire Mac OsX or to the internal WinXP disk.

At the moment, I do not have an external enclosure that can hold a SATA 2.5" disk and provide a Firewire interface, so I cannot check the reverse. However, I have ordered such an enclosure and will report back when I can test the booting of an external WinXP disk via Firewire.

mrichmon
Aug 9, 2006, 07:38 PM
At the moment, I do not have an external enclosure that can hold a SATA 2.5" disk and provide a Firewire interface, so I cannot check the reverse. However, I have ordered such an enclosure and will report back when I can test the booting of an external WinXP disk via Firewire.

Windows XP will not boot off an external Firewire disk. I have Windows XP installed on an external drive that has both USB and Firewire ports. I boot using the USB port regularly. I have attempted to boot using a firewire connection and it is not possible. Windows does not load the firewire drivers early enough in the boot process. By default Windows does not load the USB drivers early enough in the boot process either but I used a modified Windows install CD that results in a Windows install that does load the USB drivers early enough.

rjr8222
Aug 9, 2006, 07:58 PM
Windows XP will not boot off an external Firewire disk. I have Windows XP installed on an external drive that has both USB and Firewire ports. I boot using the USB port regularly. I have attempted to boot using a firewire connection and it is not possible. Windows does not load the firewire drivers early enough in the boot process. By default Windows does not load the USB drivers early enough in the boot process either but I used a modified Windows install CD that results in a Windows install that does load the USB drivers early enough.

Do you know how to alter the loading of USB drivers AFTER a WinXP install,or must this modification be done to the WinXP install disk before installing the OS?

And, if you can twink WinXP to alter the timing of the loading of the USB drivers, why not do the same thing to firewire drivers?

mrichmon
Aug 9, 2006, 08:06 PM
Do you know how to alter the loading of USB drivers AFTER a WinXP install,or must this modification be done to the WinXP install disk before installing the OS?


No, I do not have that information.

The difficulty with this is that it requires many changes to the windows registry. Modifying the install CD means that you can make small changes to a couple of config files. The contents of the config files are used to caluculate a much larger number of windows registry entries in the installed system.

And, if you can twink WinXP to alter the timing of the loading of the USB drivers, why not do the same thing to firewire drivers?

The short answer is that USB and firewire drivers at this level in the Windows registry are not equivalent enough to simply swap them. USB drivers are written to be able to be loaded early in the boot process so that usb keyboard support is available immediately after the disk drive drivers are loaded. The change in my system was to get the USB drivers loaded and characterized as a boot disk drive device.

Firewire drivers on the otherhand are not written to be able to be loaded anywhere near this early in the boot process.

I am making broad generalizations in this post in order to avoid having to explain the technical details and differences.

balamw
Aug 9, 2006, 08:10 PM
FWIW. The link to the modifications required to keep the USB drivers loaded is in post 43 (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=2590854&postcount=43) of this thread.

http://www.ngine.de/index.jsp?pageid=4176

Also, note that many PC BIOSes give some rudimentary ATAPI and PS/2 backwards compatibility to USB devices that allows them to be booted from, until the OS being booted discovers that they are really USB and the proper drivers are loaded.

B

mrichmon
Aug 9, 2006, 11:40 PM
Also, note that many PC BIOSes give some rudimentary ATAPI and PS/2 backwards compatibility to USB devices that allows them to be booted from, until the OS being booted discovers that they are really USB and the proper drivers are loaded.


This is precisely the problem with booting unmodified Windows from a usb drive. The BIOS gives rudimentary support so Windows starts booting. Before loading the USB drivers windows unloads all usb drivers including rudimentary support from the BIOS. At that point Windows cannot read anything from the USB drive, but the USB drive is where the drivers are located, but Windows cannot read anything from the USB drive..... At this point Windows is confused and bluescreens.

Lessthntim
Aug 10, 2006, 02:58 PM
So where's ipedro been throughout all of this discussion?? If it was as easy as posted why are there all these problems??

I can't seem to get past the deal where windows tells me, (after selecting the EXTERNAL usb drive) that it is unable to install windows to this disk because,

(quoting windows error)

"Your computers startup program cannot gain access to the disk that contains the partition of free space you chose. Setup cannot install windows on this HD." Then it goes on to say, "This lack of access does not necessarily indicate an error condition. For example disks attached to a SCSI adapter that weren't installed by your cpu's manufacturer or to a secondary HD controller are typically not visible to the startup program unless special software is used...."

I've tried formatting the external in many different formats but it doesn't seem enough to get the drive recognized. I'm curious to know what this "special software" is, if anyone has any clues, i'd appreciate it. Thanks!

mrichmon
Aug 10, 2006, 04:49 PM
So where's ipedro been throughout all of this discussion?? If it was as easy as posted why are there all these problems??


It is easy, remove the internal drive and Windows will be happy using the first external drive. For MacBook Pro users this is not easy.

I've tried formatting the external in many different formats but it doesn't seem enough to get the drive recognized. I'm curious to know what this "special software" is, if anyone has any clues, i'd appreciate it. Thanks!

The "special software" refered to is either firmware embedded in SCSI and RAID controller cards, or alternatively device drivers that are written to run on the bare metal. With early SCSI controllers, hooks to extend the BIOS with the firmware of the card were not well developed. So instead of hooking into the BIOS you booted using a floppy disk which installed a driver into memory. This driver remained below the OS in the same way that controller firmware remains below the OS, but it wasn't firmware since it was delivered on floppy.

Lessthntim
Aug 10, 2006, 06:55 PM
[QUOTE=mrichmon]It is easy, remove the internal drive and Windows will be happy using the first external drive. For MacBook Pro users this is not easy.

So if i disconnect my internal HD in my mac.... Windows will install to my external, understood. Is this characteristic only applicable to Macs with the intel chip?? Because i took out my HD in my pc and tried to do the same routine, (just to get XP on the External), and i got the same error message :( If this will DEFINATELY happen on the macbook, i'll have no problem detaching the internal. Let me know what you think, Thanks.:D

balamw
Aug 10, 2006, 07:11 PM
This driver remained below the OS in the same way that controller firmware remains below the OS, but it wasn't firmware since it was delivered on floppy.
I thought it was referring to the kind of special storage divers that you can select using F6 during the install. (Typically reserved for RAID/SCSI drivers).

Which I guess raises a point I hadn't considered before. I wonder why some enterprising soul hasn't developed a semi-generic FireWire or USB driver that could be installed after pressing F6 that would allow Windows to boot from external...

B

mrichmon
Aug 10, 2006, 07:35 PM
I thought it was referring to the kind of special storage divers that you can select using F6 during the install. (Typically reserved for RAID/SCSI drivers).


It is also referring to those special storage drivers. I was giving the historical explaination since I didn't want to explain the different between a "special storage driver" and a device driver.

However, this difference is the difference between using the USB drivers as a storage driver, and using firewire drivers as the storage driver.

mrichmon
Aug 10, 2006, 07:45 PM
It is easy, remove the internal drive and Windows will be happy using the first external drive. For MacBook Pro users this is not easy.

So if i disconnect my internal HD in my mac.... Windows will install to my external, understood. Is this characteristic only applicable to Macs with the intel chip??

It might only be characteristic of the intel macs.

I have personally gotten past that message and installed Windows on an external USB drive using my MacBook to perform the install. I have completed this install 4 different times.

Steps:

Modify Windows install CD to support booting off a USB drive. (Instructions are on the web and have been posted to these forums several times.)
Remove internal hard drive from MacBook.
Connect external USB drive to MacBook.
Boot from modified Windows install CD.
Progress through Windows install, creating partitions and formating the partitions as you see fit. In most of my installed I partitioned the drive under OS X using a firewire connection to the drive since Disk Tool isn't always happy partitioning USB drives. I have also successfully used a GParted boot disk to partition an external USB drive and then running the Windows installer without modifying the partition table on the external drive.
Wait for about 34 minutes for the Windows install to finish.
Reboot into Windows on the external drive.
Install the Apple device drivers for windows.
Replace internal drive.


After all of this you will be able to boot into OS X. You will not be able to boot into Windows by holding down the option key when booting. Instead you will need to connect the USB drive to a running OS X system, open the Startup Disk Preference Pane and select the windows partition. Then when you reboot you will boot into Windows. To return to OS X you need to use the Windows Startup Disk control panel to select OS X.

(OS X will also boot if the USB drive is not connected.)

This fiddling with the Startup Disk Preference Pane is a limitation that I haven't found a way to work around. For me, I can live with this since I only boot to Windows occasionally.

spriter
Aug 11, 2006, 06:40 PM
It might only be characteristic of the intel macs.

I have personally gotten past that message and installed Windows on an external USB drive using my MacBook to perform the install. I have completed this install 4 different times.

Steps:

Modify Windows install CD to support booting off a USB drive. (Instructions are on the web and have been posted to these forums several times.)
Remove internal hard drive from MacBook.
Connect external USB drive to MacBook.
Boot from modified Windows install CD.
Progress through Windows install, creating partitions and formating the partitions as you see fit. In most of my installed I partitioned the drive under OS X using a firewire connection to the drive since Disk Tool isn't always happy partitioning USB drives. I have also successfully used a GParted boot disk to partition an external USB drive and then running the Windows installer without modifying the partition table on the external drive.
Wait for about 34 minutes for the Windows install to finish.
Reboot into Windows on the external drive.
Install the Apple device drivers for windows.
Replace internal drive.


After all of this you will be able to boot into OS X. You will not be able to boot into Windows by holding down the option key when booting. Instead you will need to connect the USB drive to a running OS X system, open the Startup Disk Preference Pane and select the windows partition. Then when you reboot you will boot into Windows. To return to OS X you need to use the Windows Startup Disk control panel to select OS X.

(OS X will also boot if the USB drive is not connected.)

This fiddling with the Startup Disk Preference Pane is a limitation that I haven't found a way to work around. For me, I can live with this since I only boot to Windows occasionally.

Thanks for this, it worked great for me. Saves having Windows on the same drive which is always good.

One thing I did notice which might be the same for other MacBookers (and other Mactel owners) who try this: I originally had the USB drive plugged into the port towards the front of the MacBook. Windows gave the error about not having control of the device so wouldn't install. Before giving up I tried the USB drive in the other port (nearest to the MagSafe connector) and it worked fine. Something to bear in mind perhaps - try all your USB ports if not successful on one/some.

Runs fine, even with the page file limitation (2GB RAM helps) and the drive being an old 4,200rpm Seagate from an iBook in a 2.5" enclosure. Still, better than nothing and better than having Windows on the same drive as OSX :)

EDIT: To format the USB drive, I did it first in OSX via Disc Utility as FAT32, then reformatted to NTFS via the Windows installer. Probably doesn't make a difference but it can't harm mentioning it.

balamw
Aug 11, 2006, 06:50 PM
Now where did they put the Convert Post to Guide button!

These last two posts finally give me confidence that it can be done if you put all the pieces together. They should definitely become a Guide and/or a sticky!

B

spriter
Aug 12, 2006, 02:30 AM
Now where did they put the Convert Post to Guide button!

These last two posts finally give me confidence that it can be done if you put all the pieces together. They should definitely become a Guide and/or a sticky!

B

It took me around 90 minutes and I was taking my time, double-checking I'd done everything correctly. The guide at http://www.ngine.de/index.jsp?pageid=4176 looks daunting but is less work than it looks. You only need to modify the disc once and then you're done for good if you need to reinstall or want to put it on a different USB drive.

I use Parallels but it's well worth doing this if you want to dive in and out of Windows natively without sacrificing internal HD space and the chance of BootCamp or the Windows partition messing up your OSX install.

Lessthntim
Aug 12, 2006, 02:49 AM
Now where did they put the Convert Post to Guide button!

These last two posts finally give me confidence that it can be done if you put all the pieces together. They should definitely become a Guide and/or a sticky!

B

I hear that, finally got windows on my external running like a charm, (although it DID take a lot of work). Thanks mrichmon and balamw for your helpful posts. There IS that pesky paging file issue going on in windows, but oh well, maybe there'll be some sore of firmware adjustment for that too in the future. Thanks again!:D

Timah
Aug 13, 2006, 03:13 PM
Does anyone know if its possible to put Xp on a second internal hard drive? Im buying a Mac pro and have an extra 160gb hard drive im going to install. So Im hoping to have the original 250gb hard drive for Mac and the 160 hard drive for windows. Does anyone know if thats doable?

balamw
Aug 13, 2006, 03:17 PM
Does anyone know if its possible to put Xp on a second internal hard drive? Im buying a Mac pro and have an extra 160gb hard drive im going to install. So Im hoping to have the original 250gb hard drive for Mac and the 160 hard drive for windows. Does anyone know if thats doable?
People have been reporting issues with Boot Camp on the Mac Pro, and I don't know if they've been resolved yet...

Windows itself doesn't generally have issues with booting off of secondary internal drives, only with removable ones, so once Boot Camp (particularly the drivers) is updated for the Mac Pro it should work.

B

bearbo
Aug 14, 2006, 02:34 PM
anybody successfully installed xp on external drive, how's the speed compare to xp on internal, esp on cpu intensive applications, e.g. adobe suite, games, etc?

and btw, so the consensus is that firewire would not be able to boot windows xp from external, but usb 2.0 could, right?

Lessthntim
Aug 14, 2006, 03:52 PM
Ok, so windows runs great from the external, but i am unable to get through loading some games because windows keeps telling me i have NO virtual memory. I've tried to change the settings in the system advanced tab, and still no results, and no paging file. Is there any known way to resolve this issue? and is the reason i'm getting this message because i am running windows off an external hard drive? I love having windows separate from OSX and didn't want to install windows internally. Hopefully it's something dumb i overlooked, but if anyone has any answers i'd appreciate it. Thanks!

bearbo
Aug 14, 2006, 03:53 PM
Is there anyway that I can install two copies for windows xp via bootcamp (or other hacks), so one runs from internal, one runs from external?

shadowmoses
Aug 14, 2006, 04:04 PM
Does anyone know if its possible to put Xp on a second internal hard drive? Im buying a Mac pro and have an extra 160gb hard drive im going to install. So Im hoping to have the original 250gb hard drive for Mac and the 160 hard drive for windows. Does anyone know if thats doable?

I'm pretty sure it is possible, without any hacking or anything simply choose that disk as the one you wan't to install to in XP installer and after the install choose the correct startup disk.....

Have fun with the Mac Pro!!

SHadoW

mrichmon
Aug 14, 2006, 05:45 PM
Ok, so windows runs great from the external, but i am unable to get through loading some games because windows keeps telling me i have NO virtual memory. I've tried to change the settings in the system advanced tab, and still no results, and no paging file. Is there any known way to resolve this issue? and is the reason i'm getting this message because i am running windows off an external hard drive? I love having windows separate from OSX and didn't want to install windows internally. Hopefully it's something dumb i overlooked, but if anyone has any answers i'd appreciate it. Thanks!

Windows will not allow you to create a paging file on an external drive. If you have sufficient RAM installed then this is not a problem since Windows only uses the page file if it runs out of physical RAM. If you have less than 1GB (more realistically 2GB) of RAM then you will always have this problem if you run Windows from an external drive.

mrichmon
Aug 14, 2006, 05:47 PM
Is there anyway that I can install two copies for windows xp via bootcamp (or other hacks), so one runs from internal, one runs from external?

Yes. Install Windows using BootCamp onto the internal drive. Follow the instructions posted earlier in this thread to install onto an external USB drive.

L int.
Aug 19, 2006, 03:24 PM
I got two questions I'd like to be answered:

- if one day i could manage to boot XP or vista from an external HDD - would the speed be significantly lower compared to the internal HDD (Imac just supports USB 2.0 and firewire 400 respectively)?

- does anyone know if it is possible to use an external graphic card in case the original one wouldn't fit my needs?

Thank you,

Joey

mrichmon
Aug 19, 2006, 04:27 PM
I got two questions I'd like to be answered:

- if one day i could manage to boot XP or vista from an external HDD - would the speed be significantly lower compared to the internal HDD (Imac just supports USB 2.0 and firewire 400 respectively)?


If this is a PPC iMac then you will never be able to install Windows XP -- not on an internal drive nor on an external drive.

If this is an Intel iMac then you can install Windows XP on an external drive and for the most part it would only be slower to boot off the external drive but shoudl not have a noticable slowdown after it has booted. (This is assuming you have enough memory installed -- at least 1GB, preferably 2GB.)

The main difficulty with an iMac is that you need to remove the internal drive to install Windows it is not easy to remove the iMac drive. As an alternative you might be able to get away with using a MacBook to install Windows onto an external drive then move the external drive over to the iMac.

- does anyone know if it is possible to use an external graphic card in case the original one wouldn't fit my needs?


I'm not sure what you mean by an external graphic card. In general graphics cards do not come as external devices because the ports available on a computer do not pass data in and out of the computer at a fast enough rate. Graphics cards need very, very, high data transfer rates between the graphics card, main memory and the CPU.

Can you post a link to what you mean by an "external graphics card"?

L int.
Aug 19, 2006, 05:19 PM
If this is a PPC iMac then you will never be able to install Windows XP -- not on an internal drive nor on an external drive.

If this is an Intel iMac then you can install Windows XP on an external drive and for the most part it would only be slower to boot off the external drive but shoudl not have a noticable slowdown after it has booted. (This is assuming you have enough memory installed -- at least 1GB, preferably 2GB.)

The main difficulty with an iMac is that you need to remove the internal drive to install Windows it is not easy to remove the iMac drive. As an alternative you might be able to get away with using a MacBook to install Windows onto an external drive then move the external drive over to the iMac.



I'm not sure what you mean by an external graphic card. In general graphics cards do not come as external devices because the ports available on a computer do not pass data in and out of the computer at a fast enough rate. Graphics cards need very, very, high data transfer rates between the graphics card, main memory and the CPU.

Can you post a link to what you mean by an "external graphics card"?

I'm considering an imac (fully upgraded RAM), once the updated versions are available - you are talking about removing the HDD for installing purpose - wouldn't that void my warranty? If yes, I was wondering if I could do the trick you were suggesting also with my current PC instead of a macbook...

By external graphics memory(since it can't be changed to another one) i meant a more capable one than the one that comes included (ATI Radeon1600, 256). If I would like to do solidworks for instants.
I know that the MacPro would be the better solution for such things, but wanted to check the possibilities first.

appreciater your help...

mrichmon
Aug 19, 2006, 06:49 PM
I'm considering an imac (fully upgraded RAM), once the updated versions are available - you are talking about removing the HDD for installing purpose - wouldn't that void my warranty? If yes, I was wondering if I could do the trick you were suggesting also with my current PC instead of a macbook...


Removing the hard drive will not void the waranty of your iMac so long as you do not damage anything in the process. However, with the iMac it is difficult to remove the hard drive so it is not a recommended operation unless you really know what you are doing.

You might be able to install Windows onto an external drive and then switch the drive over to your iMac. If you try this approach you should not perform the Windows activation until you are booting off the iMac. Also, you should not install additional device drivers when you are still booting from the PC.

By external graphics memory(since it can't be changed to another one) i meant a more capable one than the one that comes included (ATI Radeon1600, 256). If I would like to do solidworks for instants.
I know that the MacPro would be the better solution for such things, but wanted to check the possibilities first.


The graphics card in the iMac is embedded as part of the main logic board. There are no options for exchanging the graphics card or using an alternative card.

L int.
Aug 20, 2006, 02:54 AM
ok - i will wait what apple comes up with in the next weeks, and then decide - thank you...

aggo
Aug 21, 2006, 04:29 PM
Steps:

Modify Windows install CD to support booting off a USB drive. (Instructions are on the web and have been posted to these forums several times.)
Remove internal hard drive from MacBook.
Connect external USB drive to MacBook.
Boot from modified Windows install CD.
Progress through Windows install, creating partitions and formating the partitions as you see fit. In most of my installed I partitioned the drive under OS X using a firewire connection to the drive since Disk Tool isn't always happy partitioning USB drives. I have also successfully used a GParted boot disk to partition an external USB drive and then running the Windows installer without modifying the partition table on the external drive.
Wait for about 34 minutes for the Windows install to finish.
Reboot into Windows on the external drive.
Install the Apple device drivers for windows.
Replace internal drive.



Would it be possible to install XP onto a USB drive through a separate Windows computer, disconnecting the internal drive and then use this on my Mac Mini? I'd be very nervous about trying to take the Mini apart. :eek: However, it's an OEM install disc so maybe I'd have to at least keep the 5GB partition on my internal drive.

mrichmon
Aug 21, 2006, 05:01 PM
Would it be possible to install XP onto a USB drive through a separate Windows computer, disconnecting the internal drive and then use this on my Mac Mini? I'd be very nervous about trying to take the Mini apart. :eek: However, it's an OEM install disc so maybe I'd have to at least keep the 5GB partition on my internal drive.

An OEM install disk will not work. You might be able to get something installed on an external drive using an OEM disk, but you would be inviolation of the OEM license for Windows. In addition, it is likely that Windows authentication would complain and/or you would have additional device drivers installed that may conflict with the MacMini hardware.

For what it's worth: I have not heard of anyone being able to install Windows onto a Mac using anything other than a Full Retail version of Windows XP SP2.

balamw
Aug 21, 2006, 05:17 PM
For what it's worth: I have not heard of anyone being able to install Windows onto a Mac using anything other than a Full Retail version of Windows XP SP2.
You haven't been looking too hard then. ;)

I've reported on my success in using an upgrade CD (retail), while others have installed XP from OEM media, XP MCE, and of course Vista.

Furthermore, it is not a violation of the OEM/System Builder's license to install a copy of XP OEM that was purchased explicitly for your Mac.

B

mrichmon
Aug 21, 2006, 05:21 PM
You haven't been looking too hard then. ;)


Yeah, I knew as I was typing the quoted text that someone would instantly prove me wrong. :)

mac ified
Aug 29, 2006, 11:22 AM
does this FIRMWARE windows thing work?

mac ified
Aug 29, 2006, 06:13 PM
The FIRMWARE upgrade is what allows Windows to run the Mac, not Boot Camp. Bootcamp is just a simple interface that guides you.

Once you install the firmware upgrade which allows for BIOS, then boot from the Windows CD (hold C during startup) and follow the regular Windows setup procedure while selecting your external drive partition to install Windows on to.

After installation, according to http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=75459 "Press Option-Command-Shift-Delete during startup to Bypass primary startup volume and seek a different startup volume (such as a CD or external disk)". At this point, you'll be able to select your external drive to boot from. Since Windows will be installed there, you'll boot Windows.

Note: I would use Boot Camp to create the driver CD which will allow Windows to support your Mac's hardware properly.

i have a few qustions about this:

1) i have a maxtor 300GB external HD in a NFST format. will this work to install windows on?
2) is there anything i have to do so windows will reconize the drive during the set up?
3) am i able to get, say, Half Life 2 and some other apps to work if this process actually works?

i need this to be answered quickly, before the end of this week :eek: :confused:

MacRumorUser
Aug 29, 2006, 06:33 PM
i have a few qustions about this:

1) i have a maxtor 300GB external HD in a NFST format. will this work to install windows on?
2) is there anything i have to do so windows will reconize the drive during the set up?
3) am i able to get, say, Half Life 2 and some other apps to work if this process actually works?

i need this to be answered quickly, before the end of this week :eek: :confused:

1) NTFS ;) will have no problems with windoes but getting it to boot from it is still tiresome / and a royal pain in the rectum. When you finally get it working you may end up with virtual memory errors regardless.

Best bet, allocate 5gb of space on your macintosh hd, and only install bare windows xp system on it. All your other programmes and stuff install them on your external drive. You will have no troubles that way and you wont end up with virtual memory errors and such.

2) Yes a lot of complicated stuff - read through some of the other posts. Cant make sense of it? That's because getting it to work it too much work..

3) All aplications will work from the external HD if you just dedicate a tiny partition to windows as outlined in 1.. It's the easiset, fastest and least hassle worth way of doing it....

mac ified
Aug 30, 2006, 10:52 AM
thx for the info, but i still have a question

i have a HP that is running windows Xp. i downloaded this thing that allows you to copy your HD and put the copy on an external HD. this in turn, allows you to have a bootable copy of your HD. i cleaned up my HP hard drive to get it to the lowest anount of GB i could get it without losing important stuff. would this bootable version of the HD work?

oh yah, one more question:
is it possable to copy windows off of the HD and place it on the extrnal HD? i heard it was possable but how?:D

MacRumorUser
Aug 30, 2006, 11:38 AM
Probably not. Windows XP when it sees a huge hardware change - in this case - everything - refuses to boot in most circumstances.

Besides it takes 30 minutes to install, and you would guarantee yourself a working fast copy with no registry problems. It's worth the 30 minutes here, than a couple of hours trying to get the other to work.

balamw
Sep 14, 2006, 02:52 PM
I just created an MR guide based on information in this thread to stop folks from asking the same question over and over. Please help me edit and complete it.

http://guides.macrumors.com/Boot_Camp_Windows_XP_On_External_Drive

Thanks!

Balam

panzer06
Sep 23, 2006, 08:33 PM
>>It took me around 90 minutes and I was taking my time, double-checking I'd done everything correctly. The guide at http://www.ngine.de/index.jsp?pageid=4176 looks daunting but is less work than it looks. You only need to modify the disc once and then you're done for good if you need to reinstall or want to put it on a different USB drive.<<

After reading through the instructions contained in the above link, I wonder does anyone think it would be possible to take an existing working internal Windows XP config and ghost it to the external device and then make the adjustments to the boot file and registry without re-installing?

mrichmon
Sep 23, 2006, 08:59 PM
After reading through the instructions contained in the above link, I wonder does anyone think it would be possible to take an existing working internal Windows XP config and ghost it to the external device and then make the adjustments to the boot file and registry without re-installing?

The hardware fingerprinting system in Windows XP will probably complain about the significant hardware changes. In addition, the changes needed in the registry and boot file are significant. In theory with complete knowledge of Windows what you are suggesting should be possible but in my opinion it is not worth the effort. In addition, I expect that Windows will require you to re-activate Windows due to the massive hardware changes.

thechris69
Sep 23, 2006, 09:27 PM
sorry to be a uber noober... but can someone please clarify what a "partition" is please... srry for the dumb question:confused:

balamw
Sep 23, 2006, 10:24 PM
sorry to be a uber noober... but can someone please clarify what a "partition" is please... srry for the dumb question:confused:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partition_(computing)

Basically a section of the hard drive set aside to collect data on the disc. Such as XP vs OS X or for example you could put your documents on a separate partition from your OS and apps so you can back the up individuall more easily. In many OSes these show up as "virtual" drives. In XP by default they get their own drive letter, but they can also have a more unixy behavior.

B

demenas
Sep 24, 2006, 04:19 AM
An OEM install disk will not work. You might be able to get something installed on an external drive using an OEM disk, but you would be inviolation of the OEM license for Windows. In addition, it is likely that Windows authentication would complain and/or you would have additional device drivers installed that may conflict with the MacMini hardware.

For what it's worth: I have not heard of anyone being able to install Windows onto a Mac using anything other than a Full Retail version of Windows XP SP2.

I installed Windows Server 2003 SP 1 with no problem.

Also Windows XP SP2 VLK version.

Steve

demenas
Sep 24, 2006, 04:21 AM
Probably not. Windows XP when it sees a huge hardware change - in this case - everything - refuses to boot in most circumstances.

Besides it takes 30 minutes to install, and you would guarantee yourself a working fast copy with no registry problems. It's worth the 30 minutes here, than a couple of hours trying to get the other to work.

If you want to move an XP installation, read up on the "Sysprep" utility and run that on the old system. XP will then bootup on the new system and run a mini setup and detect new devices.

Steve

panzer06
Sep 24, 2006, 08:10 PM
>>It took me around 90 minutes and I was taking my time, double-checking I'd done everything correctly. The guide at http://www.ngine.de/index.jsp?pageid=4176 looks daunting but is less work than it looks. You only need to modify the disc once and then you're done for good if you need to reinstall or want to put it on a different USB drive.<<

After reading through the instructions contained in the above link, I wonder does anyone think it would be possible to take an existing working internal Windows XP config and ghost it to the external device and then make the adjustments to the boot file and registry without re-installing?

The hardware fingerprinting system in Windows XP will probably complain about the significant hardware changes. In addition, the changes needed in the registry and boot file are significant. In theory with complete knowledge of Windows what you are suggesting should be possible but in my opinion it is not worth the effort. In addition, I expect that Windows will require you to re-activate Windows due to the massive hardware changes.

If it is a working internal drive on an Intel mac that gets moved to external would it work? Our client had the corporate licensing version of XP Pro that does not require activation but since it is coming out of a Mac and into an external housing do you beleive it could work? (just adding whatever entires that would allow a USB boot) Also, does anyone know if eSata is supported on any of the Intel Macs? I assume the Mac Pro could add support via an add-on card.

Thanks for your help.
Cheers

balamw
Sep 24, 2006, 08:34 PM
If it is a working internal drive on an Intel mac that gets moved to external would it work? Our client had the corporate licensing version of XP Pro that does not require activation but since it is coming out of a Mac and into an external housing do you beleive it could work?
I was wondering about that one myself. Even for the retail edition it would be able to tell that it was running on the same configuration hardware and not complain about the change too much. Shouldn't be too hard to try on a MacBook.

eSATA is one of the features lacking in the current MacBooks and minis that would make them really useful. Here's hoping that it'll show up soon... (Will an eSATA drive be seen as internal or external for the purposes of this thread?)

B

mrichmon
Sep 24, 2006, 08:37 PM
If it is a working internal drive on an Intel mac that gets moved to external would it work? Our client had the corporate licensing version of XP Pro that does not require activation but since it is coming out of a Mac and into an external housing do you beleive it could work? (just adding whatever entires that would allow a USB boot)

You probably have a good chance of that working. Although if you read through the details and side comments on the page describing the modifications to the Windows install CD to enable booting off an external USB drive you will notice that the author of those instruction clearly states that it is far easier to modify the installer rather than modify an existing Windows installation.

You might want to consider moving the existing installation to an external drive then using a modified Windows install CD to "upgrade" or "repair" the installation.

But realistically, you are talking about an unsupported installation of Windows. There are enough hairy things to be done to get a clean install of Windows working off an external drive. I think you are asking for problems by trying to go with moving an existing installation to an external drive.

demenas
Sep 24, 2006, 09:46 PM
I was wondering about that one myself. Even for the retail edition it would be able to tell that it was running on the same configuration hardware and not complain about the change too much. Shouldn't be too hard to try on a MacBook.

eSATA is one of the features lacking in the current MacBooks and minis that would make them really useful. Here's hoping that it'll show up soon... (Will an eSATA drive be seen as internal or external for the purposes of this thread?)

B

I believe an eSATA would be seen as "Internal". With External the issue is generally that USB or Firewire needs to be 100% working during the boot process.

Someone asked about eSATA and the Mac Pros. The Mac Pros actually have 6 SATA connectors on the motherboard so 2 are unused. You can buy PCI brackets that have provisions to run traditional SATA cables internally to the bracket, and have two eSATA connectors are on the outside of the card.

Steve

pandaman
Oct 7, 2006, 04:08 PM
Hi
Firstly if an install was made using the above method and a macbook, would that copy of windows then boot from a mbPro or any other intel mac ?
Would this machine need to have any windows drivers etc installed on the internal drive ? I assume it would have to have bootcamp installed.

2ndly I have read gradenko's guide on http://forum.onmac.net/showthread.php?t=1015
which details installing on a mbPro without having to remove the hard drive - is this recognised as a working method ?

Many thanks for your advice.

mrichmon
Oct 7, 2006, 08:24 PM
Hi
Firstly if an install was made using the above method and a macbook, would that copy of windows then boot from a mbPro or any other intel mac ?
Would this machine need to have any windows drivers etc installed on the internal drive ? I assume it would have to have bootcamp installed.


The installation of Windows might boot a MBPro or other intel Mac. You would probably run into some driver issues but presumably not too many. However Windows does fingerprinting of the hardware and will complain if Windows detects that the hardware has changed drastically.

There is no need to have bootcamp installed and there is nothing Windows related installed on the internal drive. The process I explained above (and was later converted into a how to guide) requires you to physically remove the internal drive during the Windows installation. I have and you can boot Windows from the external drive without having an internal drive so there is absolutely nothing Windows related stored on the internal drive.


which details installing on a mbPro without having to remove the hard drive - is this recognised as a working method ?

Many thanks for your advice.

A recognized working method for installing Windows on an external USB drive was posted my me earlier in this thread and converted to the guide: http://guides.macrumors.com/Boot_Camp_Windows_XP_On_External_Drive

This method has no impact on your internal drive (though you do need to remove the drive during the install). You must ensure that you have at least 1GB of RAM installed since Windows refuses to create a paging file on an external boot drive. Some people have decided to create a partition on their internal drive to hold the Windows page file. My MacBook has 2GB of RAM installed and I have never had any problems with running Windows without a pagefile.

ulyssesric
Oct 7, 2006, 08:43 PM
A recognized working method for installing Windows on an external USB drive was posted my me earlier in this thread and converted to the guide: http://guides.macrumors.com/Boot_Camp_Windows_XP_On_External_Drive

So there is still no way to install Windows on an external firewire drive, right ?

mrichmon
Oct 7, 2006, 09:44 PM
So there is still no way to install Windows on an external firewire drive, right ?

No way that will result in a Windows installation that will boot from a firewire drive.

pandaman
Oct 8, 2006, 01:56 AM
Thank you
So it appears your method, while the most convenient, is only open to macbook users as macbookpro and intel imacs are notoriously difficult (though not impossible) to get to the hdd on. I havent seen a MacPro.
In his article gradenko does go on to say that he repeated his experiment, making only a 6mb partition on his drive.
I was wondering if anyone alse had tried this, and with what results ?

mrichmon
Oct 8, 2006, 12:33 PM
Firstly if an install was made using the above method and a macbook, would that copy of windows then boot from a mbPro or any other intel mac ?

If you have temporary access to a MB or Mac Pro then you could do the install process to the point where the Windows installer has copied files across to the external drive and the Windows installer reboots the machine. If at this point you move the external drive to the machine that you intend to use Windows on and boot the Windows drive to allow the Windows install to continue you should end up with a Windows install that will work. (To boot the external drive you will need to use the OS X Startup Disk preference pane.)

bigmikeyp
Oct 9, 2006, 08:50 AM
I have tried clicking on the NGINE link (for instructions to build new Win XP USB Booting CD) and the page is down. Hopefully it will come on later on, but does anybody know of a page that has the same instructions or if somebody saved them for the personal use?

I have looked all over for these instructions but to no avail!

Thanks all

iKwick7
Oct 9, 2006, 02:56 PM
Successfully have parallels and xp on an external drive. :)

Off topic question though, I didn't want to make a new thread-

How do you change the windows partition's icon? For example- on my desktop, the only icons that are there are my osx computers icon and the windows partition drive. I want to make them both an iMac icon, one with osx on the screen and one w/ windows on the screen. The windows partition is read only and I cannot edit the icon.

Any suggestions??

balamw
Oct 9, 2006, 04:26 PM
The windows partition is read only and I cannot edit the icon.

Any suggestions??
You'll need to make the appropriate changes from within XP search for .VolumeIcon.icns.

B

bigmikeyp
Oct 10, 2006, 07:04 AM
I have tried clicking on the NGINE link (for instructions to build new Win XP USB Booting CD) and the page is down. Hopefully it will come on later on, but does anybody know of a page that has the same instructions or if somebody saved them for the personal use?

I have looked all over for these instructions but to no avail!

Thanks all

Anybody..?

The link seems to be totally dead now :(

balamw
Oct 10, 2006, 11:43 AM
Anybody..?

The link seems to be totally dead now :(
Google cache: http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:www.ngine.de/index.jsp%3Fpageid%3D4176

bigmikeyp
Oct 11, 2006, 07:36 AM
Thanks for that!

I didnt know about google cache... :confused: :confused: :(

mrichmon
Oct 15, 2006, 01:10 AM
Anybody..?

The link seems to be totally dead now :(

The link is alive again: http://www.ngine.de/index.jsp?pageid=4176

whoooaaahhhh
Oct 18, 2006, 09:40 PM
Does anyone know where I could download a preformatted XP CD? I just don't have the patience or time necessary to figure this whole process out. I mean I aleady own XP, I just don't want to have to fiddle with it.

thebeephaha
Oct 20, 2006, 03:25 PM
Does anyone know where I could download a preformatted XP CD? I just don't have the patience or time necessary to figure this whole process out. I mean I aleady own XP, I just don't want to have to fiddle with it.

Yea.. thatd be nice.

scottsil
Nov 18, 2006, 10:46 PM
I have been following this discussion thoroughly and have read every post here (plus many others). I'm having some issues getting XP to install. Here's what I've done successfully so far:

1. Modified the XP installation CD to support booting from a USB drive, as detailed here (http://www.ngine.de/index.jsp?pageid=4176).
2. Formatted a partition on my external USB drive to be MS-DOS FAT32.
3. Removed the internal hard drive from my MacBook.
4. Loaded basic Windows files onto the USB drive (ie: very first part of XP installation).

Now enter the problems. After XP does its initial setup run it asks you for a partition to install to. I choose the FAT32 partition on the external USB drive (the C drive), and it gives me no problems. XP proceeds to load the files onto the USB drive, and upon reaching 100% it restarts the computer.

Once the computer is restarted XP should begin the actual installation process (with the Windows logo, light blue screen, and graphics). However it instead proceeds to boot from the install CD again and starts all over with installation.

What am I doing wrong? How can I get XP to install correctly and completely?

I should mention that as a work around I have tried booting into OS X and choosing the Windows installation that was created on my external USB as my startup disk. However when the computer restarts it just gives me a black screen with a blinking white cursor.

Please help! I've come too far, too close, and put way too many hours into this for it not to work now! :confused: Thanks so much!

balamw
Nov 18, 2006, 11:26 PM
Probably just that the partition you made is not a primary, active and thus bootable partition. (Windows is somewhat picky about where it'll boot from).

Try it with an external drive that just has a single partition and see if you can get it to work.

B

mrichmon
Nov 18, 2006, 11:35 PM
Probably just that the partition you made is not a primary, active and thus bootable partition. (Windows is somewhat picky about where it'll boot from).

Try it with an external drive that just has a single partition and see if you can get it to work.

B

I agree that it sounds like the partition you installed on was not made active for some reason. You could try ejecting the disk by holding down the mouse button during the reboot halfway through the install. This might force the boot off of the external drive.

Make sure that you have plugged the external drive into the usb port closest to the power socket on the macbook. That is the port I always use when booting from the external drive. After I posted the original instructions someone mentioned that they had problems using the front usb port.

For what it is worth, when I have successfully performed this install I have always made an NTFS partition onto which I install windows and a second FAT partition on the external drive.

balamw
Nov 19, 2006, 12:47 AM
For what it is worth, when I have successfully performed this install I have always made an NTFS partition onto which I install windows and a second FAT partition on the external drive.
And if you can, let Windows do the partitioning and formatting, at least for the bootable partition. At least then it'll be done the way Windows wants.

B

jonah002
Nov 28, 2006, 05:42 PM
I have tried both USB 2.0 and Firewire and no luck. When I go to select the partition (the external drive) I get the following message from the installer (windows XP).

Your computer's startup program can not gain access to the disk containing the partition or free space you choose. Set up can not install Windows XP on thi hard disk.

This lack of access does not necessarily indicate an error condition. For example, disks attached to a SCSI adapter that wasn't installed by your computer manufacturer or to a secondary hard disk controller, are typically not visible to the startup program unless special software is used. Contact your computer or hard disk controller manufacturer for more info.

on x86-based computers, this message may indicate a problem with the CMOS drive type settings. See your disk controller docs for more information.

I've tried on a generic USB 2.0 case with a WD HD and A Samsung HD and the firewire is a brand new SmartDisk Firelite that I bought today because I saw the guy (iPEDRO) that says this works did it with a FWDH.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

JC

mrichmon
Nov 28, 2006, 05:47 PM
I've tried on a generic USB 2.0 case with a WD HD and A Samsung HD and the firewire is a brand new SmartDisk Firelite that I bought today because I saw the guy (iPEDRO) that says this works did it with a FWDH.

Any help is greatly appreciated.


What model Mac are you trying this on? Are you sure that you have removed the internal drive?

This error when trying to install Windows on a USB drive typically indicates that the internal drive is still connected.

Pierrot
Jun 26, 2007, 03:03 AM
Please, don't blame me because I trust those guys :D .
I've got a MacIntel Pro (not book):apple:
Firmware is up to date Windows XP installation work on internal drive using BootCamp or not.
I try to do what IPedro said...
I tried to connect using FireWire, USB2 ...
I made the WinXP installer CD modified for USB
When I start install from CD, I can see the USB connected drive, but the installer fail to start installing on this partition.
I tryed with or without internal drive connected.

One more hint to share: according to Microsoft specification, windows need to set MBR on the first internal drive partition accessible.
So I bootcamp-splitted my internal OSX drive to get a 5Go Windows format partition.
then i plugged the external drive.
I install Windows on the external drive (successfully)
Then on reboot, Windows explain me with its blue screen display, that I got an error on boot drive.

I feel like I'm stuck.

I would be interrested to know what system you have. (I talking to every one who tried, successing or failing to install windows on an external drive)
I think this could give more taste to this thread.

Thank you to all for your experience and discussion.;)

mrichmon
Jun 26, 2007, 09:27 AM
One more hint to share: according to Microsoft specification, windows need to set MBR on the first internal drive partition accessible.
So I bootcamp-splitted my internal OSX drive to get a 5Go Windows format partition.

The process I posted earlier has worked for me on both a MacBook and a MacBook Pro. First disconnect the internal drive. You don't want Windows to be able to do anything to your internal drive at all.... disconnecting it is the best way to ensure that.

If you are still having problems then you may have made an error while modifying the install CD to support USB drives.

WirelessInn
Jun 26, 2007, 11:16 AM
Greetings!
I am new to the Mac world. I come from and STILL with (no one is going to just "drop" if they are as I am, involved in business operations involving Point of Sale equipment, databases, etc...!!) a heavy, long time Windows (and MS DOS before that!) environment. I just stepped into the Mac world on account of the vaunted capabilities of the mac re: graphics, video, music. BUT, I also made that sideways step because of the new capability to install Win into Inte/macs. In fact, I suspect that many NEW Apple customers come from where I come from! I have NOT installed BootCamp/Win yet: I might wait until Leopard to do such install, since BootCamp under Leopard might offer even more advanced features than the current BootCamp Beta 1.3!

And I am pleased so far with my new MacBookPro: the Mac and its OS are indeed well integrated and smooth and elegant. I LOVE the Widgets!! Networking with Win equipment and devices has been as predicted fairly smooth. The issue of being able to read/write to a FAT or NTFS external drive is clear enough, especially if such a drive is connected to Win machine on the network shared by the Mac. No access problem at all in this case (regardless of whether such a drive is FAT or NTFS formatted).

A big issue seems to remain, concerning HOW to format and use an (USB or FWire) external drive connected to a Mac and to be used primarily by the Mac, and especially if BootCamp (BC)+Win are installed.
I see different scenarios outlined on this forum:
1. Mac with BC/Win installed on the mac internal drive >> external drive formatted either as FAT or NTFS with corresponding limitations as to read/Write capabilities. That drive would be for data only.
2. Same configuration, with the external Drive configured EITHER as FAT OR NTFS - or in Mac's own proprietary format (is there such a thing? i am not clear -- would such a format be better than FAT or NTFS for read/write speed?)
3. Same configuration with external drive configured as two partitions: one NTFS (for >32 gig size), and one EITHER FAT (for read/write compatibility between the Mac and Win sides( OR Mac's proprietary file structure system.
4. Mac with attempted install of Win on the external drive to save on space of the mac internal drive. There seems to be considerable debate on this one!
5. External drive used in conjunction with the elsewhere here mentioned MacDrive, MacFuse, NTFS3g, etc..

My primary concern overall: I want both the Mac and the Win side of the MBP to access the external drive as efficiently and speedily (preferably to speed penalty!) as possible!

I have an external USB Maxtor drive ready to be connected to the Mac: I want to use it for backup purpose for the Mac, for saving movies and slideshows (usually large files!), to store my pictures and videos (I have over 300 gigs of such material - NTFS is a must then!), AND, most importantly, I want the drive to be accessible to both the Mac and Win sides of my MBP (in either or both Read or write).

Wew.. I got that one out: I hope it is not too cryptic. It is just that I am gathering all possible info before undertaking installing Win on my Mac. I do not think I'll use the Parallels solution, since I plan to attempt also to play Flight Simulator X (my only favored game) on the Mac. Parallels evidently still does not handle complex Win graphics well enough.

- Roger T

beatledud
Oct 15, 2007, 07:28 PM
Ok, so I've tried for the past 3 days, with no success. Here is what I've got so far:

I have a 2.33 Macbook Pro, with OSX 10.4.10 and the most recent firmware update. I'm trying to do this on a WD 120GB Passport drive. I've followed the Ngine.de guide to alter two Windows. One is a normal Windows XP Pro SP2 and another is the Windows Pro SP2 Black Edition that doesn't require a serial or activation.

I pre-formated the external to FAT32 in OSX. I removed the internal from my MacBook Pro (wasn't too terribly difficult with the Pro, just intimidating). I then booted from the Windows CD. I kept getting the standard error: "Your Computer's startup program cannot gain access to the disk containing the partition or free space you chose. Setup cannot install Windows Xp on this hard disk." when I tried to install on that partition. This was with both of the altered Install CDs.

I then followed this suggestion: http://forums.ngine.de/viewtopic.php?t=2007 where I copy ntldr, ntdetect.com and boot.ini files onto the external. I took the files from a friend's PC. Didn't work. I then used boot camp to make a windows on the internal. I took the three files from that Windows and copied them to my external...again, same error when trying to install, with both CDs.

Next step is this option: http://forums.ngine.de/viewtopic.php?t=1764&highlight=sp2. I used the Windows XP that i had installed with boot camp. I checked all the .in files that he tells you to change in your folder. They are all fine, as well as the registry (this is because I started with an altered CD). I then turned off pagefiling, and changed the registry so the external would be the c: and the internal would be the d:. I then used Norton Ghost to copy the internal to the external. I tried booting with out the internal, but it would just have the blue screen then an icon with a folder and a question mark that flashed. I tried booting with the internal and going into the startup drive selection in OSX and selecting Windows on my external to boot on, it would just eventually boot up again into OSX. I then altered the boot.ini file since it said partition(3) and the bootcamp internal Windows was on the third partition. Since the external had one partition, i changed it to partition(1). No luck. I even tried reinstalling Windows over the the external, thinking that the files on it might give me access to install, same error.

Oh, when I copied with Norton Ghost, I selected it to make the copy drive a bootable, active partition, and to copy the MBR over to is also.

Any Suggestions?

beatledud
Oct 22, 2007, 03:38 PM
bump

cbrain
Oct 26, 2007, 03:20 AM
Can I put the bootcamp xp pro partition on an external drive? i only have 8 or so gb left on my internal, but have about 80gb on my external

would that work? or do they have to be on the same drive

Windows can not be put on an external, whatever the platform.

beatledud
Oct 26, 2007, 10:59 AM
Windows can not be put on an external, whatever the platform.

Are you serious? Have you not read this thread?

FreddyV
Oct 30, 2007, 12:46 AM
Hi

I'm having trouble booting from USB-drive on my new (mid 2007) iMac. Is that a known issue??

I know that my modified install-CD as well as the USB-drive install works since I did try it in my PC.

I did try to install rEFIt but that does not help me either.

Any input??

Cheers

Zathu
Nov 8, 2007, 06:05 PM
I have tried both USB 2.0 and Firewire and no luck. When I go to select the partition (the external drive) I get the following message from the installer (windows XP).

Your computer's startup program can not gain access to the disk containing the partition or free space you choose. Set up can not install Windows XP on thi hard disk.

This lack of access does not necessarily indicate an error condition. For example, disks attached to a SCSI adapter that wasn't installed by your computer manufacturer or to a secondary hard disk controller, are typically not visible to the startup program unless special software is used. Contact your computer or hard disk controller manufacturer for more info.

on x86-based computers, this message may indicate a problem with the CMOS drive type settings. See your disk controller docs for more information.

I've tried on a generic USB 2.0 case with a WD HD and A Samsung HD and the firewire is a brand new SmartDisk Firelite that I bought today because I saw the guy (iPEDRO) that says this works did it with a FWDH.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

JC

I'm having the same problem, I've tried preformatting as both FAT32 and NTFS. Running 10.5.

Hogster86
Dec 8, 2007, 07:58 AM
Hi all :)

Very interesting thread here. I just bought an external Firewire Drive to Bootcamp XP onto ... but failed to check on the web first to find whether this is possible or not :rolleyes: Having failed to install XP on the drive I then found threads like this on web ... doh :o

I will probably put a small partition onto my main drive and use the FW drive to put all the main XP files on. Bit of a bummer really ....

I have a quick question - what's the smallest partition I can make that will allow me to achieve this? I keep hearing 5GB mentioned here, is that the smallest I can make it?

Many thanks,


David

PS. I wish ipedro would chime in and tell us how he got his to work :rolleyes: ... if he even did!

bjlawrence11
Dec 12, 2007, 07:58 AM
Exactly my friend. I can confirm that this works. I ran into a minor issue when I tried to install Windows using my above described method, none of the partitions were recognized properly (including size) so I couldn't distinguish which one was my internal drive and which ones were my external partitions.

So I simply went into the Terminal under OSX and formatted my external drive as FAT32

newfs_msdos -F32 /dev/rdisk#s1

(rdisk#s1 being my partition's ID ... you need to check that before you run this command)

I then went booted my MacBook Pro from the Windows CD by holding C on startup, installed WindowsXP flawlessly (mind you, I could have installed VISTA, WinME, Linux, whatever) and then booted into Windows after installation by holding CMD+OPTION+SHIFT+DEL at startup.

The final step was to install the drivers that Boot Camp created previously.

Voilá. You read it here first! (Do I get $13,000? ;) )

This is the perfect solution for me. I don't put crappy old windows living with OSX on the same drive but I get to keep an external drive on my desk at work. When I arrive at work I simply plug in the external drive, boot into Windows and work on that all day. When I get home, I run OSX.

Lovin' It.


Amazing! There is hope for me with only 5 free gigs on my Macbook Pro~ not quite enough for WindowsXP and Call of Duty 4!

peanutismint
Jan 28, 2008, 11:14 PM
I've performed all the steps the online tutorials have proposed to the letter, I still can't seem to get past this your computer's startup program cannot gain access to the disk... screen. I suppose it could just be the hard disk enclosure.... but why would my enclosure be any different from any of the others? They're all USB, surely they're all exactly the same inside?

mrichmon
Jan 31, 2008, 09:52 AM
I suppose it could just be the hard disk enclosure.... but why would my enclosure be any different from any of the others? They're all USB, surely they're all exactly the same inside?

Different USB enclosures use different chipsets so they are very much not all the same inside. But it is more likely that you have the drive plugged in to the wrong USB port.

Someone reported earlier in the thread that they had problems following the instructions when the drive was plugged into the front usb port on a MacBook, but that it all worked when plugged into the rear usb port. (See post #74 in this thread.) I've always connected the drive to the rear port and had no problems.

peanutismint
Jan 31, 2008, 10:05 AM
If by rear you mean the port closest to the power port, then that's the one I've been using all along... should I try the front one instead?

mrichmon
Jan 31, 2008, 10:17 AM
If by rear you mean the port closest to the power port, then that's the one I've been using all along... should I try the front one instead?

Yes, the one closest to the power port. If that hasn't worked, then you could try the front one.

jasarien
Feb 2, 2008, 11:04 PM
I've followed the guides to the letter, created the modified install CD and installed to the USB drive.

The problem I'm having happens when the installation wants to reboot. With the Macbook Pro's default EFI firmware, the usb drive is ignored and OS X boots as normal. If I hold the alt key, the drive doesn't appear, only the Macintosh HD appears.

I have tried with Refit, and the USB drive appears, but when I choose to boot from it refit gives me a lot of error messages stating that the location couldn't be found, and that there was an error when "trying to (re)open our installation media" and then displays the message "The firmware refused to boot from USB. Apple firmware doesn't have good support for booting legacy operating systems from USB".

I was able to use an HP laptop to perform the installation of Windows onto the usb drive, successfully (it'll boot from the usb drive, although page file doesn't seem to work). But I still get the same errors from Refit when trying to boot on the Macbook Pro.

Any suggestions?

mrichmon
Feb 3, 2008, 09:53 AM
I've followed the guides to the letter, created the modified install CD and installed to the USB drive.

The problem I'm having happens when the installation wants to reboot. With the Macbook Pro's default EFI firmware, the usb drive is ignored and OS X boots as normal.

Any suggestions?

If you read the instructions you will see that you need to remove the internal drive to get the Mac to boot from the external drive during the install. There is no way around this requirement. Because of this, this install is most easily done on a MacBook and not a MacBook Pro.

Read through this thread more carefully and you will see the detailed instructions in post #73 that clearly state "Remove internal hard drive from MacBook.".

peanutismint
Feb 3, 2008, 01:59 PM
Read through this thread more carefully and you will see the detailed instructions in post #73 that clearly state "Remove internal hard drive from MacBook.".


In his defense, I've done the tutorial with the hard drive removed and it fails at the Windows Install screen for me....

fastlane1588
Feb 9, 2008, 04:17 PM
so has anyone figured out how to do this on a macbook pro with out opening up the computer and taking out the hard drive?

peanutismint
Feb 9, 2008, 04:22 PM
I hate to be a pessimist, but even if you could take your hard drive out, it still might not work (speaking from experience! :) And also a little frustration...)

Perhaps Apple will offer support for this method in later releases? A boy can dream?!!!

mac2maverick
Feb 9, 2008, 05:17 PM
I would like to run windows on an external or separate drive so that if or when it gets corrupted with viruses and the like it won't mess up my primary drive. Hmmm, I'll have to search to see if there's a more up to date solution for this query. Can anyone help me??

peanutismint
Feb 9, 2008, 05:25 PM
I think it's something that could do with being looked at very seriously by coders and programmers and people 'in the know' about this sort of thing, not only because it's a really cool way to use BootCamp, but also as there's loads of tutorials on how to achieve an external Windows drive with BootCamp but not many suggestions about what to do when it doesn't all go as the tutorial said it should have.... Possibly a Wiki could help?

Neil321
Feb 9, 2008, 06:05 PM
I would like to run windows on an external or separate drive so that if or when it gets corrupted with viruses and the like it won't mess up my primary drive. Hmmm, I'll have to search to see if there's a more up to date solution for this query. Can anyone help me??

How will it mess up your drive??,if a windows virus did get in os x it wouldnt
harm it.Maybe you should try looking that up also

beatledud
Feb 9, 2008, 06:24 PM
The issue comes to the fact that windows is not meant to be installed on an external drive. There is a hacked version tutorial out there that lets you install windows on an external drive, however there are obvious complications with boot camp. Some people experience success, some people find that they still can't select the external drive during installation. That's what happens to me.

As for removing the internal drive on a MBP, yes, u have to do it. It's not terribly complicated, but its required so that the master boot record doesn't get recorded on the wrong drive.

What I have done is installed bootcamp on a 5 gig partition. Then installed windows, then migrated nearly everything over to an external drive. Go into the registry and change your drive letters so the external is drive c and the internal boot camp is drive d. There are several programs that will let you change all you settings and preferences and document locations. Now for the most part, all settings will be directed to the external c drive, all programs will be installed there, windows files will be saved there, etc. You can go back and forth carefully removing stuff from the boot camp, but caution, u can't remove everything, otherwise you might not be able to restore it exactly and be forced to reinstall windows.

Keep your document and settings folder, keep your windows folder, as well as the misc files that are on c:\, outside of any folder structures; all on bootcamp that is. Pagefile.sys and another file (can't remember the name) both the size of your total system ram will have to be kept on the bootcamp. The other file is the temp file saved incase you hibernate while in windows. The pagefile is your standard system memory backup. You can deactivate both these things and not use them, but if you are going to use them, they have to be on the local drive, can't be on the external.

If for some reason you need to make a partition larger than 5gigs to install, you can make a 10 or 15 gig partition, then use rsync in OSX to make an exact replica of bootcamp after you've thinned it out to under 5 gig. Erase the bootcamp partition, redo it, and then use rsync to restore your copied bootcamp.

Neil321
Feb 9, 2008, 06:35 PM
The issue comes to the fact that windows is not meant to be installed on an external drive. There is a hacked version tutorial out there that lets you install windows on an external drive, however there are obvious complications with boot camp. Some people experience success, some people find that they still can't select the external drive during installation. That's what happens to me.

As for removing the internal drive on a MBP, yes, u have to do it. It's not terribly complicated, but its required so that the master boot record doesn't get recorded on the wrong drive.

What I have done is installed bootcamp on a 5 gig partition. Then installed windows, then migrated nearly everything over to an external drive. Go into the registry and change your drive letters so the external is drive c and the internal boot camp is drive d. There are several programs that will let you change all you settings and preferences and document locations. Now for the most part, all settings will be directed to the external c drive, all programs will be installed there, windows files will be saved there, etc. You can go back and forth carefully removing stuff from the boot camp, but caution, u can't remove everything, otherwise you might not be able to restore it exactly and be forced to reinstall windows.

Keep your document and settings folder, keep your windows folder, as well as the misc files that are on c:\, outside of any folder structures; all on bootcamp that is. Pagefile.sys and another file (can't remember the name) both the size of your total system ram will have to be kept on the bootcamp. The other file is the temp file saved incase you hibernate while in windows. The pagefile is your standard system memory backup. You can deactivate both these things and not use them, but if you are going to use them, they have to be on the local drive, can't be on the external.

If for some reason you need to make a partition larger than 5gigs to install, you can make a 10 or 15 gig partition, then use rsync in OSX to make an exact replica of bootcamp after you've thinned it out to under 5 gig. Erase the bootcamp partition, redo it, and then use rsync to restore your copied bootcamp.

Sorry forgive me if im wrong but is'nt that just a long winded way of saying
just keep what windows need to run on a 5GB partition and download programs
etc to a external or did i miss something?

Also dont most programs you download give you the option were you want to install
them anyway

beatledud
Feb 9, 2008, 06:43 PM
You can't just say have programs install on the D drive. Settings, misc stuff, systems files, registry, etc, will slowly build up on the C drive and soon take over your partition. This is an option to get essentially everything running off the external, but yeah, u still need the 5 gig partition, but its a sufficient compromise when you spend 5 days straight trying the external only option with out any success.

mac2maverick
Feb 9, 2008, 06:58 PM
You can't just say have programs install on the D drive. Settings, misc stuff, systems files, registry, etc, will slowly build up on the C drive and soon take over your partition. This is an option to get essentially everything running off the external, but yeah, u still need the 5 gig partition, but its a sufficient compromise when you spend 5 days straight trying the external only option with out any success.

What's your reason for wanting it all on an external?

Siberhusky
Feb 10, 2008, 01:21 AM
In his defense, I've done the tutorial with the hard drive removed and it fails at the Windows Install screen for me....

Unless someone comes up with some robust guidance, I recommend not wasting time with this... and just sharing Windows on the internal drive. With all due respect to the considerable expertise of those posting, I think people are missing something. (Not that I pretend to know what it is.) I read the posts going back a couple of years... and there appears to be some misinformation... or there are at least some subtle hardware differences that account for the problems. (I have a MacBook purchased July 2007, running Tiger with all the updates.) Some of the people that claimed this works simply disappeared. This stuff should be reproducible, and from the number of postings of people having problems, it's clearly not. One shouldn't have to hop on one foot, switch ports if it's Tuesday and raining, then cross your fingers to see if it works.

There have been a few posts on how to make this work, but none of them worked for me. I tried several permutations, I tried several different USB drives, I tried FAT vs. NTFS, I tried changing the number of partitions, I tried the post with the hard drive in, I tried the post with the hard drive out; I even proofread the edited Windows CD several times and went back and created a second one just in case... nothing worked. I could never get it to work. Finally, I figured I was doing more damage to my system by opening things up and repeatedly messing with the hard drive and/or rebooting, that I simply installed Windows internally. It's not as aesthetically pleasing, but I have had no problems.

beatledud
Feb 10, 2008, 01:41 AM
Siberhusky has it mostly right. You can try it once, but if it doesn't work, don't obsess over it like I did. Ultimately, if you are half-way informed with the inner-workings of Windows, try the suggestion I had about migrating as much as you can from bootcamp to your external. It may not be perfect, but 5 gigs off of your 120gig drive isn't the end of the world.

bond304
May 6, 2008, 09:30 PM
lots of reading. I skipped some, hope that won't be a problem. I get the permissions error. How do i partition my external HD so i can install windows, also, can someone post the link or something to instructions on how to modify windows so it doesn't unload and reload windows usb and firewire drivers? Efforts much appreciated.
Edit : i tried newfs_msdos -F32 /dev/rdisk#s1
it just told me drive info.

Dan Harkless
May 14, 2008, 08:25 PM
If you read the instructions you will see that you need to remove the internal drive to get the Mac to boot from the external drive during the install. There is no way around this requirement.
That's not true. The alternate install method devised by user gradenko on forum.onmac.net reportedly allows you to get around the requirement of removing your internal HD, and requires at most a 6 MB (not 6 GB) Windows partition on your internal drive in return. Currently (and perhaps permanently), that site is down due to database errors, but here's an archive.org copy of the first page of the thread:

http://web.archive.org/web/20070403132849/http://forum.onmac.net/showthread.php?t=1015

The second page is not present on archive.org -- I tried clicking over from all of their historical copies of page 1 (that were new enough to have a page 2), as well as checking whether they had a copy of the URL minus the stupid embedded session ID (http://forum.onmac.net/showthread.php?t=1015&page=2), and same thing for the "Show Printable Version" link, but no luck. Nothing remaining in Google cache either. Anyone know if there was any useful additional info on page 2?

balamw
May 15, 2008, 08:04 AM
requires at most a 6 MB (not 6 GB) Windows partition on your internal drive in return.
Then, by definition, Windows is not just on the external drive and this method does not satisfy the needs and desires of many folks to have Windows just on the external which you CAN do with mrichmon's method.

Nice to have an in-between alternative that may work for the machines where the HDD is hard to access though...

B

Dan Harkless
May 15, 2008, 04:23 PM
Then, by definition, Windows is not just on the external drive and this method does not satisfy the needs and desires of many folks to have Windows just on the external which you CAN do with mrichmon's method.
True, but I thought most people's concern was saving space on their internal HD. In that case, 6 megs is nothing.

I realize some people are also expecting that having Windows entirely on its own drive will be safer, but I think that benefit is minimal. If you're concerned about Windows or some program on it hosing stuff outside of its partition, then it can just as easily hose your (OS-X-only) internal drive. I suppose Mac Pro and MacBook owners who wanted to be extra-paranoid could remove / disconnect their OS X drive every time they booted Windows to negate that possibility, though.

Dan Harkless
May 15, 2008, 04:42 PM
BTW, I updated http://guides.macrumors.com/Booting_Windows_XP_From_An_External_Drive to include a link to the alternate method (in the part where it's saying that the process described is best suited to MacBooks due to the HD removal requirement). Also updated the guide to mention the USB port issue.

bond304
May 15, 2008, 06:02 PM
cant you just hold down the alt button during bootup to select the windows install on the external?

chilipeppersfan
May 16, 2008, 06:02 AM
Hey, i have just discovered this little gem of a thread, and am interested in installing windows onto my western digital 500GB external hard-drive (USB 2.0), which is currently being used as my time machine drive.
Could someone please walk me through the steps of partitioning this drive so i have both windows and time machine available, if this is at all possible :confused:
I would prefer to not lose the backups from time machine though

Thanks in advance!

PcBgone
May 17, 2008, 10:52 PM
I have a pc that had a motherboard die...Im planning on getting the hard drive out, and putting it into an external case. Will I be able to boot off of this since I already have windows installed on this drive and is the master drive on the old pc?

bond304
May 18, 2008, 01:44 AM
Try it, see what happens. Thats the way to find out.

user1121
Jun 26, 2008, 11:12 AM
Macbook C2D, Leopard. icydock external enclosure, seagate drive from old pc.

Okay, so I know my problem is at the formatting stage. I get the "Your computer's startup program can not gain access to the disk containing..." message no matter what usb port I'm using, and I'm certain my internal drive is sitting on a counter, not in my macbook.

I'm looking for someone who does have this working, (mrichmon?) to tell me just how they formatted/partitioned their drive AND what their drive was doing prior to this. I'm thinking that since I used a drive that was just storage in another PC that it still has some trace of the old partitioning on it, even after having disk utility make the whole thing Fat32.

So, are we formatting the drive in windows or os x?
If os x, GUID table, or MBR?
One partition for the whole drive? Fat? two partitions to mimic the real bootcamp layout?

If in windows, one partition, Ntfs, then marked as active?

I've even tried copying the boot.ini,ntldr,ntdetect.com and can always see and even delete/create partitions in the windows installer, but it never actually accepts the chosen partition and lets me install.

Is there some 3rd party tool or Terminal command I should use to wipe the boot sector of this drive or wipe the whole thing clean and then try to format it again in os x?

Really, any advice would be great. If I was having windows freak out about hardware or something driver related post-install, I'd just forget it, but the fact that it's some silly formatting issue makes it worth the effort.

mrichmon
Jun 26, 2008, 09:43 PM
Let me preface this post with the disclaimer that it has been a couple of years since I last performed this install. But I can (mostly) recall the formating details that you ask about.

Macbook C2D, Leopard. icydock external enclosure, seagate drive from old pc.

I used an Other World Computing Mercury Elite enclosure. I do not recall if this has an IDE or SATA drive inside.

Okay, so I know my problem is at the formatting stage. I get the "Your computer's startup program can not gain access to the disk containing..." message no matter what usb port I'm using, and I'm certain my internal drive is sitting on a counter, not in my macbook.

I'm looking for someone who does have this working, (mrichmon?) to tell me just how they formatted/partitioned their drive AND what their drive was doing prior to this. I'm thinking that since I used a drive that was just storage in another PC that it still has some trace of the old partitioning on it, even after having disk utility make the whole thing Fat32.

So, are we formatting the drive in windows or os x?
If os x, GUID table, or MBR?
One partition for the whole drive? Fat? two partitions to mimic the real bootcamp layout?

If in windows, one partition, Ntfs, then marked as active?


I messed around with many different ways to format the drive because I was trying to get the OS X firmware to recognize the drive on boot so that I could avoid using the startup preference pane to boot into Windows. The first time I performed this install I used the Windows installer to partition the drive into an NTFS partition and a larger FAT32 partition. (Both would have been primary partitions.) NTFS was about 20-40GB and this is where I installed Windows. The FAT32 partition was to allow data sharing with OS X.

I messed around with using OS X to partition the drive using an MBR and using a GUID. None of the OS X partitioned drives ended up being happy during the install.

I also used a Linux partition tool from a Linux rescue disk to partition the drive and this resulted in a successful install. With Linux, fdisk worked to partition with MBR and then install Windows. On Linux I also used a visual (text based GUI-like) tool which allowed me to create both an MBR and GUID partition table on the disk Windows installed onto this partition setup but since the GUID table did not help with getting the Mac firmware to boot the drive consistently I switched back to using Windows to partition the drive for the last couple of times I performed this install.

I have always (including for this type of install) had success with using dd to wipe the partition table. Such as:
dd bs=1k if=/dev/zero of=</dev/disk_device> count=3

Strictly you should only need to overwrite the first 512 bytes of the drive (the above command writes "0" to the first 3Kb but that is just to "be sure").


Really, any advice would be great.

Hopefully these pointers help. If not, post again and I will dig out the drive and post the actual partition table information.

user1121
Jul 1, 2008, 12:27 AM
Well, still no luck. used dd to wipe the partition table, formatted with windows, same problem. Can't use the installer to format as it whines when choose the drive to install to. Tested my install cd's mod by doing this with my pc, installed just fine, so it's something with getting the drive to work on the macbook. Pretty much out of ideas. If copying your working partition table doesn't do it I'll have to settle with something about my enclosure just not cutting it. Oh well.

mrichmon
Jul 12, 2008, 03:26 PM
If copying your working partition table doesn't do it I'll have to settle with something about my enclosure just not cutting it. Oh well.

Output of OS X command "fdisk -d /dev/disk1" where "/dev/disk1" is my external usb drive with windows installed:

14,153600090,0x07,*,0,1,1,1023,13,14
153600104,237121780,0x0B,-,1023,13,14,1023,13,14
0,0,0x00,-,0,0,0,0,0,0
0,0,0x00,-,0,0,0,0,0,0


The OS X fdisk command can use these strings to replicate a partition table on another drive.

According to the Windows XP Disk Management tool the partitions are:
primary partition 1 - NTFS (active) - 73.24GB
primary partition 2 - FAT32 - 113.04GB

Another thing that may work is to use a PC to start the Windows install on the external drive. Then when the Windows installed reboots switch the external drive and the Windows CD over to the MacBook. This may avoid the problem with the Windows installed not recognizing the external drive at the beginning of the install.

macman3
Sep 2, 2008, 12:26 AM
What firmware upgrades are you talking about and where do I get them?

fenderbenderr45
Sep 19, 2008, 07:08 PM
hey if you got a big enough Extrenal HDD you can reinstall Mac OS X Leopard on that disk and just run boot camp from there. get my drift.

ayeying
Sep 19, 2008, 07:10 PM
hey if you got a big enough Extrenal HDD you can reinstall Mac OS X Leopard on that disk and just run boot camp from there. get my drift.

Doesn't work. Windows resets the USB drivers during boot so it doesn't matter if you have OSX installed with it or not. It will NOT boot off the external drive without some modding.

mattluc
Oct 28, 2008, 08:46 PM
I've been trying to do this and this many-year-long-thread seems to include everything i've ever come across in my research and experimentation. I couldn't read all of it.

I've been experimenting and currently i've installed Leopard on my external and am going to boot from that with the internal drive of a macbook i'm using taken out (when i tried this with it in, Bootcamp wouldn't let me do anything) and see if i can convince bootcamp to aid an install to the external.

*sigh*, but it won't boot to my MBP properly because of the port issues...will it?

Ideally i would like to use FW800, but my external is triple-interface, so USB will work if FW can't.

I'm sure someone has asked before, but if anyone has succeeded, could they please post the exact steps they took? Thanks!

mrichmon
Oct 28, 2008, 11:17 PM
I couldn't read all of it.

Read the thread. There are many issues covered that touch on your questions.

I've been experimenting and currently i've installed Leopard on my external and am going to boot from that with the internal drive of a macbook i'm using taken out (when i tried this with it in, Bootcamp wouldn't let me do anything) and see if i can convince bootcamp to aid an install to the external.

Bootcamp will not touch an external drive because Windows will not boot off an external drive successfully without significant modifications to Windows. Windows will not install on an external drive without modifications to the Windows install CD.

*sigh*, but it won't boot to my MBP properly because of the port issues...will it?

An external drive with Windows installed will boot on a MBP. However getting Windows installed on the external drive using your MBP (assuming this is a MBP from before the recent update to the current models) will be very difficult since you must remove the internal hard drive for Windows to install on the external drive.

Ideally i would like to use FW800, but my external is triple-interface, so USB will work if FW can't.

Firewire will not work because Windows will not boot off a firewire drive. It is possible to modify the Windows installer to load the USB drivers earlier in the boot process and thereby end up with a Windows installation that will boot off a USB drive. The firewire drivers for Windows cannot be successfully loaded early enough on the Windows boot process for a similar change to work for firewire drives.

... but if anyone has succeeded, could they please post the exact steps they took?

Succeeded with what?

If you mean succeeded with installing Windows on an external drive and booting from that drive, then multiple people have succeeded by following the instructions I posted earlier in the thread.

bmb012
Oct 28, 2008, 11:59 PM
Hm, I have Windows installed a partition on an extra drive in my Mac Pro, yeah, not an external or anything, but if definitely doesn't have to be your boot drive.

mattluc
Oct 29, 2008, 07:34 AM
Thank you, mrichmon. I will find your previous post, and i apologize for my impatient reading.

mattluc
Oct 30, 2008, 08:16 AM
The website that everything points to for instructions to modify the XP installation, http://www.ngine.de/index.jsp?pageid=4176 , has been down for a couple of days now (i know it was up about a week ago). Does anyone have those instructions or know of another place they've been posted? I'm running out of time to do this installation (long story).

mrichmon
Oct 30, 2008, 12:22 PM
Does anyone have those instructions or know of another place they've been posted?

I have the instructions as a saved html file. Send me a private message with your email address and I'll send the instructions to you.

bond304
Nov 13, 2008, 07:55 PM
Wow this thread just keeps going.

Anyway, to the point, i get the cannot access, insufficient privileges error.
How do i fix this?
I can never get past the install.
Why do i not have insufficient privileges?

Leechtime
Dec 5, 2008, 01:54 AM
I've been reading through this over the course of a few weeks. I am on a MacBook 10.5.5 and so far I've only succeeded in partitioning my internal hard-drive and installing windows on it and being able to boot it by holding the left option key on boot-up. I have all my PC stuff needed on an external harddrive which both platforms pick up.
My only trouble is that Windows doesn't pick up my mac's hardware, and I also can't seem to get a connection going. I don't know what people mean when they refer to using Boot Camp to make that possible. Any help would be great.

richard.mac
Dec 5, 2008, 02:03 AM
^ this has nothing to do with this thread (but i can understand why you think it does).

all you have to do is insert your first install disc while in Windows and the Boot Camp drivers installer will pop up.

Leechtime
Dec 5, 2008, 06:32 AM
No such luck, I get a blue screen of death when I try that. I have SP2, at least I thought I did, but uh, one thing is that the windows OS within the mac doesn't have the ability to restart, making installing SP2 kind of impossible... for me at least.

mrichmon
Dec 5, 2008, 10:44 AM
I've been reading through this over the course of a few weeks. I am on a MacBook 10.5.5 and so far I've only succeeded in partitioning my internal hard-drive and installing windows on it and being able to boot it by holding the left option key on boot-up. I have all my PC stuff needed on an external harddrive which both platforms pick up.
My only trouble is that Windows doesn't pick up my mac's hardware, and I also can't seem to get a connection going. I don't know what people mean when they refer to using Boot Camp to make that possible. Any help would be great.

This thread has nothing to do with getting Windows installed on your internal drive.

It sounds like you have manually partitioned your internal drive and installed Windows beside OS X. If so, then unfortunately you've gone about installing Windows the hard way.

"Boot Camp Assistant" is a piece of software written by Apple that is installed as part of OS X 10.5.5. The progam is installed in /Applications/Utilities. Boot Camp automates the process of installing and uninstalling Windows from an internal drive on Intel Macs.

Boot Camp walks the user through:

writing a bunch of Windows drivers for the Mac hardware to a blank CD,
resizing the OS X partition to create a partition for Windows (without loosing the data on the OS X partition,
creating a Windows compatible (MBR) boot block that mirrors the GUID partition scheme used by OS X on intel,
storing some preferences settings to support automatic removal of the Windows partition and expansion of the OS X partition back to the full disk if the user decides to uninstall Windows.


From where it sounds like you are on the install you probably have two options:

run Boot Camp and see if you can generate the drivers CD. (Or extract the driver CD image from the Boot Camp binary.) Then get the drivers installed in Windows. If Windows will not boot for you (even in safe mode) then this may not be an option.
Remove your Windows partition and use Boot Camp to install. Either you can run Boot Camp and it might detect your Windows partition and allow you to uninstall. (This may not work or may leave the GUID/MBR partition tables in an odd state.) Or, wipe your hard drive install OS X on the drive then use Boot Camp to install Windows.


Take a look at the Apple support pages for Boot Camp. Apple provides comprehensive information on the Boot Camp install process.

Spinnetti
Dec 24, 2008, 08:23 PM
Ok, so I tried this.
- I deleted my boot camp partition (which I've been using for several years)
- I restarted and ran the windows installer
- It could see my external drive (firewire), but said it couldn't install there
- I went "back to the mac", ran disk utility and formatted the external drive in NTFS
- Rinse, repeat, only I tried the USB connection. This time it said I had to have a windows partition on the main mac drive before it could install. This contradicts what was posted here. Do I have to do a 5g partition, and then I can remove it once installed, or will I always have to have a PC partition on my main mac drive? (undesirable).

What am I missing here?

Ok, I tried it with the 5g partition, and it installs, but on the reboot it goes into an endless loop of reinstalling.

Looks like its a bust on 10.5.6 at least on my Core Duo iMac :(

marchseventh
Dec 29, 2008, 08:54 PM
I can report that I can see my external USB drive in the Mac Startup menu and it was visible to XP when installing, so I could have selected it to install to. Just don't have a external drive ready to test just yet.

I'd like to have just OS X on the Mac internal drive and XP external or maybe even the other way around.

So once the firmware is installed can you use the option key (or alt) to select a boot drive, like when you use BootCamp to partition.

Is BootCamp Assistant installing a partition manager or is the firmware?

Can OS X or XP then be installed to either drive?

I tried. Can't!

Guys!
I'm wondering what happens when you select the external disk to install XP in the devise selection screen while XP installation? When I select my USB or F/W disk, the XP installer shows can't be installed on a external devices. And installation won't go next.

I think that's not about the firmware because the installer has identified the external disk. But XP don't allow us to install it on external drive.

My firmware is upgraded as the newest yesterday. Dec. 29 2008

How did you guys above get it work???

balamw
Dec 29, 2008, 09:44 PM
But XP don't allow us to install it on external drive.

Did you follow the instructions to the letter and modify your XP install disc according to the instructions at http://www.ngine.de/article/id/8 ?

B

Cloudane
Mar 5, 2009, 02:01 PM
Given that the "alternative method" for those who don't want to tear their Macs apart to disconnect the drive is consigned to archive.org I'll post my response here...

Decided to give it a go since I got the 120GB Mac Mini (wouldn't pay an extra £150 for components I can get for £65, on the principle of it) and haven't really got room to waste on Windows internally. Nor do I fancy the putty knife lark just yet.

The exact method outlined in the original tutorial didn't work for me, but for those who may be interested these were the steps I took to have Windows installed to a USB drive and just a 1GB internal partition for boot and swapfile are as follows. Bit of a faff, but worked in the end. (You can probably get away with a smaller internal partition but with only 1GB of RAM I decided to have the extra for swap).

BE WARNED, these are very rough steps that I have outlined for people who REALLY KNOW what they're doing. If you don't know what all this stuff means, don't try to follow it as I've made a lot of assumptions about your level of knowledge and it's easy to screw up, and I can't guarantee that I've detailed every step perfectly. I take no responsibility if you hose your OSX installation or lose your data, etc etc :)


Use bootcamp to create a 5GB partition, the minimum it will go to.
Format the external HDD on Windows, using the HP USB format tool (very easy to find on Google). Might not be necessary but I usually see this step listed for USB-Windows boots.
Modify your XP to install to USB, as per the original tutorials. You usually need to extract some files using Winimage and hack them then re-inject the files and burn.
Boot from the newly USB-enabled XP installation CD, which should be the SP2 version by the way.
Hopefully setup will see the USB drive - format it as NTFS (quick is fine), and ignore the Boot Camp partition. If you can get the Boot Camp partition to format you might save some hassle later on, I'm not sure, but didn't manage it myself.
Now XP will install to the external drive, and then reboot. At this point, when you try to resume it will fail with a Boot Error. If you'd managed to format the Boot Camp drive in the previous step (I remember this being a necessity in a normal install) it might work and save you some hassle here, but for me it failed.
Boot into OS X, run the Boot Camp utility, and restore the drive (i.e. delete the Boot Camp partition).
Open Disk Utility, and shrink OS X by 1GB (use the text box rather than the slider, it's easier). Apply the changes.
Use the "+" to create a new partition, should be 1GB to match the free space you just made. In my case, Disk Utility sat there partitioning forever, so I abandoned it and restarted the process and it worked instantly the second time.
Format the newly created partition as FAT.
Boot off the XP CD again, and this time go to the Recovery Console. The Windows installation should be on D:
Issue the command 'format c: /fs:ntfs /q' to reformat the newly created partition as NTFS. If in doubt, do a 'DIR C:\' to make sure you're formatting the right one!
Issue the 'fixboot' command, which should restore the NT boot sector to the C: drive (1GB partition).
Issue the command 'bootcfg /rebuild' and add the XP installation it detects.
Exit to reboot. Oh noes, now NTLDR is missing! Time to boot into OS X again.
Download MacFUSE and NTFS-3G, both very easy to Google. This enables NTFS write support. Reboot when it asks.
Download the CD-R ISO image from www.tinyempire.com/notes/ntldrismissing.htm and mount it.
Copy the various files to the 1GB boot drive (which should only contain boot.ini at this point), excluding boot.ini as you don't want to overwrite that. The main point is to get NTLDR and a couple of other files across.
Reboot with option held down again, with the XP CD inserted, and boot from the Windows partition. Setup should hopefully resume!
Now it works. There might be a few choices in the boot menu, so if you know what you're doing (not wise to follow these steps otherwise) then tidy up the boot.ini. The system will be drive D: and the boot partition drive C:, you can't win them all. Just ignore the whinging about drive C: being low on disk space - there's probably some way to disable it.

grooveb
Mar 15, 2009, 10:06 AM
I'm using a intel core 2 duo macbook pro and i has just bought a esata external hard drive( Fantom $119) and an express card-esata adapter from iogear.

My plan was to divide this new HD into 2 partitions, and select one to use as windows. I partitioned ,and then I made the computer boot trough cd in order to reach the winXP instalation cd.

The problem is, when i have to decide which partition to use the guide shows me 2 totally different partions that i don't have . I'm worried that this adaptor from silicon image (http://www.siliconimage.com/products/product.aspx?pid=32) has no driver to boot. I'm now stucked , thinking about what to do.

Any help?

thx a lot
B

areusche
Mar 15, 2009, 10:23 AM
I had XP running from my 500gb USB enclosure for a couple of months. I then migrated everything over to my internal drive since I like being able to play games on my laptop on the go.

The instructions I used are on this page. Just skim over the types of flash drives until you get to the parts about extracting the CD.

http://www.ngine.de/article/id/8

Good luck! It was definitely a fun afternoon project.

MagicWok
Mar 25, 2009, 11:52 AM
Has anyone else tried running bootcamp over eSata through the express-card slot?

Just a though...

azza1310
Aug 11, 2009, 06:20 AM
Has anyone else tried running bootcamp over eSata through the express-card slot?

Just a though...

How about express-card solid state drives or express-card with SD/SDHC card slots?

what is the performance like? is it slow could you play games off the external drive?

balamw
Aug 21, 2009, 10:43 PM
How about express-card solid state drives or express-card with SD/SDHC card slots?

what is the performance like? is it slow could you play games off the external drive?

Well apparently the new SD equipped Macs will actually boot off of SD http://gizmodo.com/5285969/new-macbook-pros-can-boot-from-their-internal-sd-slot So now I just have to get a big enough card and try it! XP probably won't be able to boot off of it without removing the internal HDD.

B

eaw589
Oct 26, 2009, 02:07 PM
The FIRMWARE upgrade is what allows Windows to run the Mac, not Boot Camp. Bootcamp is just a simple interface that guides you.

Once you install the firmware upgrade which allows for BIOS, then boot from the Windows CD (hold C during startup) and follow the regular Windows setup procedure while selecting your external drive partition to install Windows on to.

After installation, according to http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=75459 "Press Option-Command-Shift-Delete during startup to Bypass primary startup volume and seek a different startup volume (such as a CD or external disk)". At this point, you'll be able to select your external drive to boot from. Since Windows will be installed there, you'll boot Windows.

Note: I would use Boot Camp to create the driver CD which will allow Windows to support your Mac's hardware properly.

okay so i have all up to date firmware but i may doing something wrong, if you could give me step by step to get the firmware with BIOS that would be awesome! also i would prefer to run a version of Vista NOT a version of XP, do you know if this will work fine??
also this driver CD that is created through bootcamp, i started the program and nothing cam up tp creatte this disk so is it after you install windows that you do this? sorry for all the possibly easy questions

iomatic
Feb 2, 2010, 10:04 PM
So has anyone gotten Windows 7 easily installed on an external drive?

Thanks.

DonCarlos
Feb 3, 2010, 02:02 AM
....gotten Windows 7 easily installed.....

I think that is the key phrase.

Aside from that manipulation of an install disc that is mentioned so often, I have yet to read a way to do this.

You would think that some smart computer whiz would have come up with an easier method or at least a program to assist you with creating the needed install disc. Most of us own a legitimate XP disc but are not comfortable or computer savvy, with doing the German method http://www.ngine.de/article/id/8

Seeing this 4 year old thread resurface is very nostalgic.

There must be another solution for putting a USB or FW bootable XP on an external hard drive .

iomatic
Feb 23, 2010, 03:22 PM
I have all the pieces of the puzzle; I'm just hoping someone can chime in on the smoothest route. Doesn't have to be one-click easy, but easiest thus far?

-MBP 13 (including the SD slot -- too slow?)
-external drives USB and FireWire 800
-Windows Ultimate retail box
-any number of 2-4GB SD cards, thumbdrives, etc. (can purchase new ones: speeds?)

Please. Anyone. This? (http://blogs.technet.com/aviraj/archive/2009/02/01/installing-windows-7-using-usb-thumb-drive.aspx) or maybe This? (http://www.intowindows.com/how-to-install-windows-7vista-from-usb-drive-detailed-100-working-guide/) Will you still need to boot with reFit?

What's the workflow look like? plug in external drive, hold down [what keys]? To reboot into the Mac, same process?

Which way is the 'right' (or at least, smoothest) way?

Thanks!



I think that is the key phrase.

Aside from that manipulation of an install disc that is mentioned so often, I have yet to read a way to do this.

You would think that some smart computer whiz would have come up with an easier method or at least a program to assist you with creating the needed install disc. Most of us own a legitimate XP disc but are not comfortable or computer savvy, with doing the German method http://www.ngine.de/article/id/8

Seeing this 4 year old thread resurface is very nostalgic.

There must be another solution for putting a USB or FW bootable XP on an external hard drive .

balamw
Feb 23, 2010, 04:44 PM
Please. Anyone. This? (http://blogs.technet.com/aviraj/archive/2009/02/01/installing-windows-7-using-usb-thumb-drive.aspx) or maybe This? (http://www.intowindows.com/how-to-install-windows-7vista-from-usb-drive-detailed-100-working-guide/) Will you still need to boot with reFit?

Those links are for the reverse than what is meant in this thread. Installing Windows on a fixed hard drive from a removable USB disk.

What exactly are you trying to do?

B

iomatic
Feb 25, 2010, 11:34 AM
1) simply install Win 7 on an external drive
2) simply boot off of said external drive, or OS X internally, by choice.

Thanks!

I know step 1 requires a few steps; I'd like to avoid unplugging my internal drive or partitioning it for Windows. Simplest route, please, both to create an external bootable, and to use it.


Thanks, thanks, thanks.

balamw
Feb 25, 2010, 11:59 AM
1) simply install Win 7 on an external drive
2) simply boot off of said external drive, or OS X internally, by choice.

Thanks!

I know step 1 requires a few steps; I'd like to avoid unplugging my internal drive or partitioning it for Windows. Simplest route, please, both to create an external bootable, and to use it.


Thanks, thanks, thanks.

Unfortunately, there is no simple way. You either need to live with a 20 GB minimum internal partition (simplest) or end up unplugging the internal drive to install a modified version of Windows (harder).

B

panzer06
Feb 25, 2010, 05:00 PM
Unfortunately, there is no simple way. You either need to live with a 20 GB minimum internal partition (simplest) or end up unplugging the internal drive to install a modified version of Windows (harder).

B

What do you mean? I currently use my entire internal 500GB drive for Windows 7. OS X 10.6 is installed on the 1.5TB external. I'd like to swap that. Will the Win7 partition boot from my FW800 or USB enclosure?

I thought that was a MS impossibility.

Cheers,

balamw
Feb 25, 2010, 05:12 PM
I thought that was a MS impossibility.


Nothing is impossible, it's just a matter of how much work you want to do...

You still need to make modifications to Windows to have it not unload the USB stack during boot and you also may still need to remove the internal drive during setup.

Also, since it's an unsupported install, you run the risk that any Windows update can break it.

B

panzer06
Feb 25, 2010, 08:20 PM
Nothing is impossible, it's just a matter of how much work you want to do...

You still need to make modifications to Windows to have it not unload the USB stack during boot and you also may still need to remove the internal drive during setup.

Also, since it's an unsupported install, you run the risk that any Windows update can break it.

B

I see. Probably easier to replace the optical with some sort of internal bay connected to a sata port and run a laptop HD for Windows. I'll have to see if someone has already done that.

Thanks for the info.

Cheers,

balamw
Feb 25, 2010, 10:05 PM
I see. Probably easier to replace the optical with some sort of internal bay connected to a sata port and run a laptop HD for Windows. I'll have to see if someone has already done that.

Thanks for the info.

Cheers,

That definitely works. Search for optibay (This is why http://www.mcetech.com/optibay/ )

B

iomatic
Mar 7, 2010, 02:26 PM
So the good news is my wife's Mac Pro has a free bay (I guess it's good news?) I have Win 7, retail. I have numerous external drives. I have a bit of time. I think I have to go buy USB sticks; not a problem.

What would you all recommend; of course I'd prefer to have a nice 2.5" external drive that's USB-powered, so it's more easily transportable (since I can't see my wife stops working, and letting me use her computer for gaming :eek:). Is it even possible to use one of the Mac Pro bays to format/partition/install Win 7 into a smaller drive?

Thanks.

panzer06
Mar 8, 2010, 09:13 PM
So the good news is my wife's Mac Pro has a free bay (I guess it's good news?) I have Win 7, retail. I have numerous external drives. I have a bit of time. I think I have to go buy USB sticks; not a problem.

What would you all recommend; of course I'd prefer to have a nice 2.5" external drive that's USB-powered, so it's more easily transportable (since I can't see my wife stops working, and letting me use her computer for gaming :eek:). Is it even possible to use one of the Mac Pro bays to format/partition/install Win 7 into a smaller drive?

Thanks.

Even if it worked you Probably couldn't boot from it over USB.

Cheers,

iomatic
Mar 10, 2010, 01:00 PM
Even if it worked you Probably couldn't boot from it over USB.

Cheers,

Sorry, I'm a bit confused. Given my equipment list, should I a) try to create an external drive (by using it as an internal first, then putting it in a case) b) then somehow make it bootable? So if it was bootable via SATA, it won't be bootable via USB because of Windows?

All this might be scrapped, since Steam is coming out on the Mac anyway…

:D

balamw
Mar 10, 2010, 02:54 PM
So if it was bootable via SATA, it won't be bootable via USB because of Windows?
Correct. Windows is not designed to boot from USB. Or perhaps Windows is designed not to boot from USB...

B

Recluded
Apr 25, 2010, 12:32 AM
Hi all , installed windows xp pro 32 bit sp3 black edition on my external drive with no problem with this steps .


1)Modify your Windows install CD to support booting from a USB drive.

2)Remove the internal hard drive from the MacBook.

3)Connect the external USB drive. Note that some users report that the Windows installation will abort with an error unless the USB port nearest to the power connector is used.

4)Boot from the modified Windows install CD.
Progress through the Windows install, creating partitions and formatting the partitions as you see fit. You may want to partition the drive under Mac OS X using a FireWire connection, since Disk Utility cannot always partition USB drives.

5)Finish partitioning and copying of the files .

6)Replace internal hard drive .

7)Reboot into Windows on the external drive and wait for the Windows installation to finish.(reFIt was used to boot windows for me )

8)Finish installation and boot into windows successfully .(reFit was used again )

The last step is to install the drivers which is in the apple install dvd in my box set , but there was some problem , it was only for boot camp . i did not use boot camp to create any 5 gb partition . Now what do i do ??? Someone help me please !

balamw
Apr 25, 2010, 08:14 AM
The last step is to install the drivers which is in the apple install dvd in my box set , but there was some problem , it was only for boot camp . i did not use boot camp to create any 5 gb partition . Now what do i do ??? Someone help me please !

Boot Camp consists of three components.


Boot Camp Assistant (the part you did not use)
The firmware extensions required to boot "legacy" MBR OSes (which you are using)
The drivers which you should install for maximum compatibility


Just because you skip BCA doesn't mean you are not using Boot Camp, go ahead and install the drivers.

B

Recluded
Apr 27, 2010, 01:15 AM
Boot Camp consists of three components.


Boot Camp Assistant (the part you did not use)
The firmware extensions required to boot "legacy" MBR OSes (which you are using)
The drivers which you should install for maximum compatibility


Just because you skip BCA doesn't mean you are not using Boot Camp, go ahead and install the drivers.

B

Thanks , i tried to install the drivers , when i insert the install dvd , nothing happen , is anyone kind enough to send me the all the drivers required so that i can burn it onto a disk and install the drivers ??? I tried to extract them from my disk by converting the disk into a dmg and then using terminal but it doesn't work .

balamw
Apr 27, 2010, 06:27 AM
Thanks , i tried to install the drivers , when i insert the install dvd , nothing happen

So just use the original disk and install manually from the appropriate MSI. Step 3 from this howto: http://yougottabekiddingyou.blogspot.com/2009/03/tutorial-apple-boot-camp-for-64-bit.html

B

Recluded
May 2, 2010, 03:25 AM
Hi Balamw indeed , i can install my drivers , thanks for your help , but i got another problem . one day , when i was using my windows on it , my brother knocked my files down which my external hard drive was on , the external hard disk was disconnected with my usb cable and everything inside had to be erased but it was okay . what was not okay was this
http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/2104/picture1at.png
http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/8213/picture6eb.png
when i tried to copy my files out from my hdd .

the copying was extremely slow too , so what is the problem with my external hard drive ? Could anyone help me ? Is my external hard drive doomed ?

balamw
May 2, 2010, 10:15 AM
This has noting to do with the original thread topic and it seems like you're trying to read a torrented version of OS X 10.6, so my assistance stops here.

Sorry!

B

Aeoz
May 5, 2010, 10:29 PM
I'm wondering if I should partition 5GB from my 120GB Internal HDD and install Windows XP, but install the programs/games on the external HDD? How would that effect any performance? Since I only have 1 External, I use it for backups, but since it's 750GB, I wouldn't want to waste the extras.

Any recommendations/suggestions?

balamw
May 6, 2010, 09:45 AM
I'm wondering if I should partition 5GB from my 120GB Internal HDD and install Windows XP, but install the programs/games on the external HDD?

You can certainly try that, however I always find that some things either just won't keep everything on the external and will force some installs on C: so 5 GB may be too little.

Which Mac do you have? It might just be a whole lot easier to stick in a $60 320 GB HDD from NewEgg and not deal with it. It's super easy on MacBook/MBPs that have/had a battery compartment. A bit less so on the newer ones and quite a bit less so on a mini.

B

bond304
May 6, 2010, 02:38 PM
I'm wondering if I should partition 5GB from my 120GB Internal HDD and install Windows XP, but install the programs/games on the external HDD? How would that effect any performance? Since I only have 1 External, I use it for backups, but since it's 750GB, I wouldn't want to waste the extras.

Any recommendations/suggestions?

I run a 40 gig internal partition because my sisters itunes is 25 gigs and lots of trash on main mac os. I also have a 1tb external drive but im too lazy to move my sisters itunes and repartition so I install nearly all stuff to external program files folder. If you really need to install something to external but it forces internal you can use folder junctions, however i usually only put large installs on external, small installs like browsers and small free image editing apps are kept on internal. Works pretty well, 10 gb to spare on internal.

^^ I do speak english and im from us, its just that my grammar died :O

balamw
May 6, 2010, 05:22 PM
^^ I do speak english and im from us, its just that my grammar died :O
Condolences. :p

Yeah the problem with junctions is knowing up front that something wants to go somewhere on C:\ Sometimes you don't know until it's too late.

B

Aeoz
May 6, 2010, 10:23 PM
Thanks for the reply balamw and bond304

@balamw
I guess 5GB also won't accommodate some programs—medium to high-end games for instance—which might need memory from the HDD (please confirm this.)

I'm using a Macbook from early 2009 and I've been considering getting a new internal so I get rid of the hassle, but I'm also tempted to get a new MBP, lol. I probably won't though.

What type of Internal would you recommend? I've been recommended Seagate, but I'm still not sure. (I'm in Australia, btw.)

@bond304
Lol, your english is OK, just a bit messy.

How large is a "large install"? I'm gonna be using Bootcamp for games only, and I might go a bit hardcore.

If I settle with 32GB for internal (in case some programs can only be installed on C:,) and install everything on the external, would any gaming performances be reduced? Low settings for graphics are fine by me, but I wouldn't want to be lagging.

bond304
May 7, 2010, 06:05 AM
Thanks for the reply balamw and bond304
@bond304
Lol, your english is OK, just a bit messy.

How large is a "large install"? I'm gonna be using Bootcamp for games only, and I might go a bit hardcore.

If I settle with 32GB for internal (in case some programs can only be installed on C:,) and install everything on the external, would any gaming performances be reduced? Low settings for graphics are fine by me, but I wouldn't want to be lagging.

I use steam, which keeps all games in the same folder, currently my steam folder is above 40 gigs, which would fill my hd by itself. I also have an install of x-plane with part of the 60 gigs of scenery installed. Also adobe photoshop, which is a couple gigs.
These are on external.
I usually try to install anything over a couple gigs on external.

Having a game on external will only affect certain types of performance. It should only affect read from file/disk times, which is equivalent to when the game is at a loading screen, because it is loading files from the game files to ram, but once it's finished, most of it is in ram, so the game performance should be fine, and also, you shouldn't have to turn the quality settings down any. Game devs already accounted for slow hd's, so it should be acceptable on an external hd.

balamw
May 7, 2010, 06:23 AM
I guess 5GB also won't accommodate some programs—medium to high-end games for instance—which might need memory from the HDD (please confirm this.)

What type of Internal would you recommend? I've been recommended Seagate, but I'm still not sure. (I'm in Australia, btw.)


I think it really all depends on specifically which games you are playing. As bond304 says, steam is pretty well behaved. Other games may not be so well behaved. One MMO I have been beta testing downloads 7 GB of stuff, and does not give you a choice of where to put it.

Usually what I have done when I have upgraded any of my Mac's HDDs is to buy from the same brand and product line as the drive Apple originally supplied. I think they have been Seagate and Hitachi drives mostly.

B

Aeoz
May 7, 2010, 06:27 AM
I use steam, which keeps all games in the same folder, currently my steam folder is above 40 gigs, which would fill my hd by itself. I also have an install of x-plane with part of the 60 gigs of scenery installed. Also adobe photoshop, which is a couple gigs.
These are on external.
I usually try to install anything over a couple gigs on external.

Having a game on external will only affect certain types of performance. It should only affect read from file/disk times, which is equivalent to when the game is at a loading screen, because it is loading files from the game files to ram, but once it's finished, most of it is in ram, so the game performance should be fine, and also, you shouldn't have to turn the quality settings down any. Game devs already accounted for slow hd's, so it should be acceptable on an external hd.

So most of your games are on the external? And the gaming performance is optimal? So I can go ahead and partition 32 gigs on my internal, and install the games on external? Cheers. Steam is coming to the Mac too.

Thanks for the answer sire.

Stucky
May 11, 2010, 06:11 PM
Hi everyone. So I did the changes to the windows XP installation in order for it to be able to install in a external USB disk. Then I tried installing it on one of mine USB external HDDs and it said that it can't install on that drive because it doesn't have access to it, blah blah blah, but I can see the partitions and even modify them. Then I read in here that you need to take your internal drive out. So I removed it. Still didn't work. Even tried it with another USB HDD and it still doesn't work.

I am using a windows CD with SP3 already inside and modified using the guide on the website that is on this thread. Does it need to be SP2? What am I doing wrong here?

I have a MacBook Pro 17" early 2007 with 10.6.3 in it.

Thanks everyone,
Stucky

evanlakes
Jun 18, 2010, 03:33 PM
Hey guys,

I'm new to this forum, but have been lurking for a while now. As a first post, I figured I'd let you all know that I think I just found a really simple way to either install Windows onto an external drive OR move an EXISTING partition (made with Boot Camp on the original Mac HD) onto an external drive. I haven't read through this whole thread though, so someone let me know if it has been mentioned. I will finish doing the process now, make sure everything runs fine, and after I do so, I'll post a guide here.

balamw
Jun 18, 2010, 05:24 PM
Hey guys,

I'm new to this forum, but have been lurking for a while now. As a first post, I figured I'd let you all know that I think I just found a really simple way to either install Windows onto an external drive OR move an EXISTING partition (made with Boot Camp on the original Mac HD) onto an external drive. I haven't read through this whole thread though, so someone let me know if it has been mentioned. I will finish doing the process now, make sure everything runs fine, and after I do so, I'll post a guide here.

Looking forward to it! Would be nice to have a working process that works for something other than XP and/or requires removing the HDD.

B

robocat
Feb 5, 2011, 09:04 AM
Guys i recenty lost my Mac Hd so had to get it all re Installed,
when trying to start bootcamp up im Getting this message
"Back up the disk and use Disk Utility to format it as a single Mac OS Extended (Journaled) volume. Restore your information to the disk and try using Boot Camp Assistant again".

any ideas ?

balamw
Feb 5, 2011, 09:12 AM
"Back up the disk and use Disk Utility to format it as a single Mac OS Extended (Journaled) volume. Restore your information to the disk and try using Boot Camp Assistant again".
Do you have more than one partition? Does your OS X partition not have journaling turned on currently? Did you partition the drive using APM instead of GPT? (Post a screenshot of the Partition tab from Disk Utility if you can).

B

robocat
Feb 5, 2011, 09:22 AM
Do you have more than one partition? Does your OS X partition not have journaling turned on currently? Did you partition the drive using APM instead of GPT? (Post a screenshot of the Partition tab from Disk Utility if you can).

B\
Name : Hitachi HTS545025B9SA02 Media
Type : Disk

Partition Map Scheme : Master Boot Record
Disk Identifier : disk0
Media Name : Hitachi HTS545025B9SA02 Media
Media Type : Generic
Connection Bus : SATA
Device Tree : IODeviceTree:/PCI0@0/SATA@B/PRT0@0/PMP@0
Writable : Yes
Ejectable : No
Location : Internal
Total Capacity : 250.06 GB (250,059,350,016 Bytes)
S.M.A.R.T. Status : Verified
Disk Number : 0
Partition Number : 0

\This what u looking for ?

balamw
Feb 5, 2011, 02:20 PM
Partition Map Scheme : Master Boot Record

This doesn't look right. You need GPT and this may be why it isn't working.

I was looking for something more like this:
http://liveinformant.com/wp-includes/images/articles/027-mac-os-disk-utility.jpg

B

robocat
Feb 6, 2011, 12:58 PM
sorted the drive , took it to Apple store,
now when i start boot camp. i d/l the windows for Mac drivers but it will mac will not burn to disk or transphere it to ex flash drive . :(

balamw
Feb 6, 2011, 02:40 PM
Use the drivers on your grey os x intall disc. Tell it you already have it.

Download the Bluetooth and graphics drivers separately.

B

theaero
Feb 19, 2011, 10:51 PM
Thanks for this, it worked great for me. Saves having Windows on the same drive which is always good.

One thing I did notice which might be the same for other MacBookers (and other Mactel owners) who try this: I originally had the USB drive plugged into the port towards the front of the MacBook. Windows gave the error about not having control of the device so wouldn't install. Before giving up I tried the USB drive in the other port (nearest to the MagSafe connector) and it worked fine. Something to bear in mind perhaps - try all your USB ports if not successful on one/some.

Runs fine, even with the page file limitation (2GB RAM helps) and the drive being an old 4,200rpm Seagate from an iBook in a 2.5" enclosure. Still, better than nothing and better than having Windows on the same drive as OSX :)

EDIT: To format the USB drive, I did it first in OSX via Disc Utility as FAT32, then reformatted to NTFS via the Windows installer. Probably doesn't make a difference but it can't harm mentioning it.


Rather than removing your Internal Drive, couldn't you just complete the installation on another computer (Windows machine), isntall there, and then when the installation is complete, plug the drive into your Mac Comp?

balamw
Feb 20, 2011, 05:27 PM
Rather than removing your Internal Drive, couldn't you just complete the installation on another computer (Windows machine), isntall there, and then when the installation is complete, plug the drive into your Mac Comp?

The problem is twofold.

1) Windows will customize itself to the hardware you install on so the hardware won't be "right" for your Mac

2) Windows always prefers to write some stuff to the first HDD in the system to facilitate its boot process. This is (partially) why the instructions ask you to remove the internal so it has no choice but to make the external fully capable of booting.

B

Jvvv
Apr 17, 2011, 12:56 PM
:( :( That doesnt work. I've already tried.

And if you have to keep your 5gb partition then you may aswell just keep you windows xp on it and then use an external for programs full stop...

It will take Apple to introduce an update to bootcamp to allow external hd installation and booting.

I'm new to MacRumors and I probably know less of what I'm doing than anyone else on this thread, so bear with me.

I'm attracted to an easy solution with a low probability of making a critical mistake, so the idea of starting with the minimal 5GB XP partition and then storing all files and programs on an external drive doesn't seem so bad. Am I right that this would bypass all the issues mentioned here regarding booting XP from an external drive?
What's the downside of storing everything on an external drive in this way? Am I missing something?

All I want to do with XP is play Steam games but I just need more space.

My specs:
OS 10.6.7, MacBook Pro 2.2GHz Intel Core 2 Duo, 3GB 667MHz DDR2 SDRAM

basketkase045
Sep 8, 2011, 12:19 AM
For what it is worth, when I have successfully performed this install I have always made an NTFS partition onto which I install windows and a second FAT partition on the external drive.

So does that mean i can partition my 750 gb external and have windows on just part of it?

Also has anyone tried with windows 7?

Thank you,

Kris

Edit: if i missed something ... sorry i have read about 7 out of the 10 pages so far.