Will the next update to the 12" iBook kill the 12" PowerBook?

Abstract · Feb 4, 2003

Will an upgrade to the 12" iBook kill the 12" Powerbook? The iBooks are "due" for an update in approximately 2-3 months, but they're already at 800 Mhz, whereas the 12" Powerbooks are only at 867Mhz. Do you think Apple would dare update the iBook to a cpu speed above and beyond that of their Powerbook? Would it not cannibalize the sales of the Powerbook if the ibook was bumped to 900Mhz? At an $800 difference between them at the low end models, it sure looks as though an iBook update of any sort will either NOT include the 12", or not happen to the line as "scheduled".

cb911 · Feb 4, 2003

an interesting thought, but i would have to say that there is no way that Apple would put the iBooks speed above that of the 12" PB.

i don't have a clue what Apple will do with the 12" iBook, anyone with ideas, please post them. it will be interesting to see what Apple do.

CrackedButter · Feb 4, 2003

They might lower the prices of the iBooks and when the 12" gets updated with a 1ghz processor they then upgrade the iBooks but at a lower speed to the 12".

GrizzlyHippo · Feb 4, 2003

My iBook theory...

My theory, for what it's worth, is that we will see the iBook range significantly re-designed. Reasons:

1 - They have to differentiate it from the 12" PB, and at the moment they are VERY similar to Joe Consumer. G3 vs G4 means nothing, but Joe looks at 800Mhz vs 867Mhz and doesn't understand the price difference.

2 - Ink HWR. Surely Apple dropped this into OSX for more than just awkward hand writing through your Wacom? If not a total tablet iBook, I can see them making it possible for kids (and grown up kids) to write and draw on the screen ala eMate.

However, I can see them still offering a traditional iBook laptop alongside any re-design so as to hedge their bets about the whole potential of the tablet market.

Anyway, those are my thoughts, and I'll take 2 of the tablet iBooks (hint hint Apple)...

Grizzly

jefhatfield · Feb 4, 2003

my guess...along with an 800 mhz ibook and a faster 900 mhz ibook, apple will most likely make a speed bump to the 12" inch G4 powerbook to 1 ghz and the 15" and 17" to 1.25 ghz

but i am hoping for a 1 ghz ibook before the year is up

medea · Feb 4, 2003

I'd have to say no, because Jobs and Apple co are not stupid enough to let that happen, I don't know what changes will be made but I'm sure it will siginificant enough.

Abstract · Feb 4, 2003

GrizzlyHippo:

My theory, for what it's worth, is that we will see the iBook range significantly re-designed.

I agree. Can they continue selling the 12" Powerbook and 12" iBook with similar specs and an $800 price difference? And of course, the Applecare costs much more for a 12" PB, as does Ram, and so the difference between them is more like $1000 or $1100 rather than $800. That's enough money to buy another Apple product (almost

).
Again, I agree with GrizzlyHippo, but I don't think they're going to turn the iBook into a tablet. It would be too costly as an "i" machine, and this would make the 12" PB, at a base price of $1800, the low-end laptop in the Apple line-up. That would be upsetting to most people, since the iBook is one of their highest-selling products.

And I agree with JeffHatfield. Although, this means that the iBook will be updated in...... another 6 months? That just seems too long from now. Their 700 Mhz low-end iBook is already looking rather .....silly in the line-up, isn't it?

macphoria · Feb 4, 2003

iBook will not surpass PB in Mhz speed

Because of common consumers' obsession with Mhz speed, Apple will not release consumer laptop that is faster than professional laptop. It is simply not logical. Apple as a manufacturer wants people to pay more money for faster machine.

That means iBook's speed upgrade won't happen until PB line gets speed upgrade as well. And I think jefhatfield's previous comment is pretty much on the money. Slowest of the PB line will have to hit at least 1.0 Ghz before iBook speed is updated. And for iBook's G3 speed to hit 1Ghz, slowest PB model has to be 1Ghz+. Also, iBook's G3 speed has been increasing at 100mhz increments for a long time. It is unlikely that next iBook upgrade will be 1Ghz (200Mhz jump). In most likely case it will be 900Mhz, while slowest PB hits 1Ghz.

But then, with possibility of IBM's 970 around the corner, it will be interesting to see how G5 will play into the whole equation.

jefhatfield · Feb 5, 2003

Originally posted by medea
I'd have to say no, because Jobs and Apple co are not stupid enough to let that happen, I don't know what changes will be made but I'm sure it will siginificant enough.

one title...chapter five...Macintosh - The Naked Truth by Scott Kelby (isbn 0-7357-1284-0)

"Now, I have to warn you, watching Apple management make decisions can be a lot like watching your favorite football team when they're behind by 17 points late in the fourth quarter, and they're running tight ends up the middle when they're on their own 20."

first, from your statement, i have to assume

1) you live nowhere near silicon valley or any center of high tech

3) you avoided all business related classes in high school and/or college

3) you must have started watching apple's business moves yesterday and have not seen their track record

4) or you love apple and steve jobs so much, that you praise his accomplishments and turn a blind eye towards stupid things they have done in the past

Moxiemike · Feb 5, 2003

How about this?

In March, 6mos away from the release of the iBooks (11.02) apple releases price bumped down iBooks:

799 for a 800mhz CD-RW, 128mb ram, 16mb vram, 20gb hd, 12.1

999 for the 800mhz combo, 128mb ram, 32mb vram, 30gb hd. 12.1 screen

1299 for a 900mhz combo, 256mb ram, 32mb vram, 40gb HD. 12.1

1499 for a 900mhz combo, 256mb ram, 32mb vram, 40gbhd. 14.1 screen

Then, they release new Aluminum 15 inchers and an update to the ol' 12 incher.

say, 1799 for a 933mhz combo, 256mb ram, 32mb vram, 40gb hd 12.1 inch g4

2299 1.0ghz combo, 256 mb ram, 64 mb vram, 40gb hd 15.2 inch g4

2799 1.25 ghz combo, 256 mb ram, 64mb vram, 60gb hd 15.2 inch g4.

price drop on 17" down to 2999? 3099? And by June get that one up to 1.25 ghz.

i dunno. just a shot in the dark

MacCoaster · Feb 5, 2003

Re: iBook will not surpass PB in Mhz speed

Originally posted by macphoria
Because of common consumers' obsession with Mhz speed, Apple will not release consumer laptop that is faster than professional laptop. It is simply not logical. Apple as a manufacturer wants people to pay more money for faster machine.

They have done that with the 700 MHz iBook and 667 MHz PowerBook some time last year or something like that.

macphoria · Feb 5, 2003

--They have done that with the 700 MHz iBook and 667 MHz PowerBook some time last year or something like that.

You are probably right about this. I think PowerBook line had 800 Mhz and 667 Mhz version when 700 Mhz iBook came out (correct me if I am mistaken).

Still, I'll stick to my previous argument and say 1 Ghz G3 iBook is not likely scenario because
1) Apple has been holding back 1 Ghz G3, even though it has been available for a while,
2) they have been holding back most likely due to slow G4 upgrade
3) with exception of what you pointed out (which was only 33 Mhz difference between G4 667 and G3 700) iBook's clockspeed did not exceed PowerBook's in other releases.
4) and as I've mentioned earlier, iBook line has been updating by 100 Mhz increments which is, again, probably to delay tactic to allow G4 to move up its clockspeed.

But that is not to say I don't want to see iBook with 1 Ghz G3. I'm all for surprises.

shadowfax · Feb 5, 2003

i don't see an issue with the iBook having more MHz than the little powerbook. it's important to note that the G4, even at lower clock speeds, yields a lot of performance increases, especially in an environment like OS X. as long as the 12 inch albook has a better Bus, L3 Cache, a better vid card, and so on, i don't see a big issue with having smaller MHz on the Albook, as long as it was only about 100 MHz difference.

that said, i don't know if apple would do it. i am going on the logic, "would i prefer a 667 MHz powerbook with 256 or an iBook 800?" i would definitely take the powerbook, even if just on the processor.

Abstract · Feb 6, 2003

But the 12" PB doesn't have the Cache that the other PB's have, and is also $800 more. That's a lot of extra money to spend. You're basically saying that you would rather own an $1800 machine than a very comparable $1000 machine and $800 in your pocket. The performance boost you would see doesn't warrant an additional $800+ for the machine. And this performance edge of the 12" PB over the 12" iBook is questionable on some levels, because from what I understand, the iBook actually beats it on some levels, while is weaker at others. It is in a very recent thread somewhere.

Why would it be a big deal to have an iBook faster than a Powerbook? Because of the price difference. As I've already stated, I don't think the 12" PB is worth the money when you compare it to the iBook, and by increasing the MHz in the iBook, you're making the argument to get a 12"PB even tougher and harder to justify.

Apple screwed up badly when they made the 12" PB. Less cache than the other PB's? Why? Why did they need to make the 12" PB worse than the others? Basically, you're just paying for the size of the screen anyway. The 17" costs more than the 15" because of the increased screen size. The 17 and 15" should cost more than the 12" because of their larger screen sizes, not because of performance!! Its a hurtin' laptop, when it should be a high-end laptop. The iBook is supposed to be the weaker line, and this should be clear to everybody. It isn't.

I don't think they'll update the iBook and not the 12" PB. They'll just have to break their 6 month cycle and surprise us all with their MPC 7457.

shadowfax · Feb 6, 2003

Originally posted by Abstract
But the 12" PB doesn't have the Cache that the other PB's have, and is also $800 more. That's a lot of extra money to spend. You're basically saying that you would rather own an $1800 machine than a very comparable $1000 machine and $800 in your pocket. The performance boost you would see doesn't warrant an additional $800+ for the machine. And this performance edge of the 12" PB over the 12" iBook is questionable on some levels, because from what I understand, the iBook actually beats it on some levels, while is weaker at others. It is in a very recent thread somewhere.

Why would it be a big deal to have an iBook faster than a Powerbook? Because of the price difference. As I've already stated, I don't think the 12" PB is worth the money when you compare it to the iBook, and by increasing the MHz in the iBook, you're making the argument to get a 12"PB even tougher and harder to justify.

Apple screwed up badly when they made the 12" PB. Less cache than the other PB's? Why? Why did they need to make the 12" PB worse than the others? Basically, you're just paying for the size of the screen anyway. The 17" costs more than the 15" because of the increased screen size. The 17 and 15" should cost more than the 12" because of their larger screen sizes, not because of performance!! Its a hurtin' laptop, when it should be a high-end laptop. The iBook is supposed to be the weaker line, and this should be clear to everybody. It isn't.

I don't think they'll update the iBook and not the 12" PB. They'll just have to break their 6 month cycle and surprise us all with their MPC 7457.

I had no idea it had less (or no?) L3 cache. that sucks.

reflex · Feb 6, 2003

Originally posted by Moxiemike
How about this?

In March, 6mos away from the release of the iBooks (11.02) apple releases price bumped down iBooks:

6 months away from the previous update would in fact be May and not March.

LethalWolfe · Feb 6, 2003

Originally posted by reflex

6 months away from the previous update would in fact be May and not March.

That depends if you count the month of Nov or not. If you do count Nov as the 1st month then the 6mo will be April.

Lethal

jefhatfield · Feb 6, 2003

this debate is great...but i wonder how it would turn out if each and every one here has tried the ibook (which i hope all did by now) and compared and contrasted it to the new, not in many stores yet, 12" inch g4 powerbook

...the latter takes my breath away and leaves the three hundred dollar cheaper top of the line 14" inch ibook in the dust

though the 14" inch ibook does have the bigger screen, which i do admit, is easier on the eyes

sometimes i have a hard time seeing the print on my 12" inch clamshell ibook screen when i cruise the internet on some sites and they say i have 20/20 vision but i know i can't see things the way i did two decades ago in my teens

i like the bigger screen and if money were no object, the perfect laptop, both in screen size and portable weight, would be the 15" inch tibook

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Will the next update to the 12" iBook kill the 12" PowerBook?

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