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MacRumors
Feb 4, 2003, 05:32 AM
Kodawarisan (http://www.kodawarisan.com/ug/) claims that iBooks may be updated next week. No other word of this has been heard, and seems unlikely.



xj9000
Feb 4, 2003, 05:57 AM
It certainly seems unlikely to release an iBook so soon, but the way things seem to be trending it would be nice if ever 2-3 weeks apple released a new/updated product. i could see the new powerbooks followed by the powermacs, followed by new iMac, then in a few weeks new iBook, a few weeks after that new iPods, then maybe 10.2.4, then maybe xRAID.

If apple does release something new every month they could keep attention on themselves more than just the two macworlds which they are trying to de-emphasize.

They have enought products in hardware and software to keep up a monthly release schedule, so maybe the iBook rumor is not too far fetched - although the timing might be.

cionheart
Feb 4, 2003, 08:24 AM
Normaly I wouldn't expect any updates until May. But the releases of the 12" and 17" Powerbooks mixed things up a little bit. Apple has to update the TiBooks soon - don't you think? So as the last TiBooks were introduced the same day as the iBooks last November I think there's a small chance to see some minor updates to the iBook rather sooner than later.

As I'm waiting to buy one I would love that :-)

There are also rumors of a G4 iBook (LoopRumors) in May. Looprumors did a good job for MacWorld so maybe they are right...?

CrackedButter
Feb 4, 2003, 09:18 AM
Woot woot!

I just got off the phone with a guy from Apple (he rang me because i enquired about switching) he asked me what machines i was interested in when considering my switch.

I said it was either the 12" iBook or the 12"PBook, but i was waiting for the possible updates since i found the 12"Pbook a bit limiting.

He said exactly this "Don't hold your breath, but it could be next week". But to further give some spine to this rumour, he was also going to ring me back in a week to talk over the options.

Yay!

Could this hold true, Apple just touching the whole product line including ibooks until the 970?

One can only hope if for thesake of the Apple employee who rang me.

reflex
Feb 4, 2003, 09:34 AM
Originally posted by CrackedButter
Woot woot!

He said exactly this "Don't hold your breath, but it could be next week". But to further give some spine to this rumour, he was also going to ring me back in a week to talk over the options.

I doubt that the iBooks will be updated soon (although that could just be wishful thinking since I just ordered one). They were just recently updated (but of course, so were the Powerbooks).

It might be that Apple is just moving its entire product line to "OSX only" as quickly as possible. That would partly explain the lacklustre updates to the iMac line and the mere price drop in the eMac line.

If Apple does update the iBooks next week, then I hope my order won't be delivered this week :)

cionheart
Feb 4, 2003, 10:13 AM
Originally posted by CrackedButter
He said exactly this "Don't hold your breath, but it could be next week". But to further give some spine to this rumour, he was also going to ring me back in a week to talk over the options.


Boy, if that is true :D :D :D

This isn't a joke, is it?

yzedf
Feb 4, 2003, 10:14 AM
eMac price drop is all that is needed for that machine. It does not need to be a scorcher, speedwise. I wonder if the CRT problems have been fixed...?

<dream>

iBook - think they will add the DVD burner? It is an option on everything else now (including the eMac)... Slot load DVD burner, with a 900MHz G3 and BT and AE in the $1799 range would be nice. That and the ability to get 1GB of RAM :D

</dream>

CrackedButter
Feb 4, 2003, 10:35 AM
Originally posted by cionheart


Boy, if that is true :D :D :D

This isn't a joke, is it?

This is no joke, i asked Apple about 3 weeks ago to phone me so i could talk about switching, even though i said phone me on wednesdays!!!

Anyway i explained that i was waiting for an update and i was waiting for VPC to be sold through the apple store since i cannot afford to repurchase another MS office.

So now he is ringing me back next week.

I hate people who start false rumours but i can assure you i am not doing this, he did ring me and he told me not to hold my breath (good advice i think).

Anyway i am as eager as the rest of you guys so we will just have to wait.

TheMightyG
Feb 4, 2003, 10:53 AM
Originally posted by yzedf
eMac price drop is all that is needed for that machine. It does not need to be a scorcher, speedwise. I wonder if the CRT problems have been fixed...?

<dream>

iBook - think they will add the DVD burner? It is an option on everything else now (including the eMac)... Slot load DVD burner, with a 900MHz G3 and BT and AE in the $1799 range would be nice. That and the ability to get 1GB of RAM :D

</dream>

I was under the impresion that one needed a G4 to get DVD burning....

MacBandit
Feb 4, 2003, 11:00 AM
Originally posted by TheMightyG


I was under the impresion that one needed a G4 to get DVD burning....

That truly is an Apple imposed rule. Though because of it I highly doubt there will be a iBook with DVD-R. This would cut into the PowerBook line and would also make the iBook more expensive. I think everyone should be thinking to themselves how can Apple cut the price on the iBook because that is exactly what they are going to do. Just look at the iMacs and PowerMacs and consider that there is 12" PowerBook. Apple will want to differentiate the iBook further by cutting the price this would also keep them in line with the other recent price cuts.

yzedf
Feb 4, 2003, 12:52 PM
Originally posted by MacBandit


That truly is an Apple imposed rule. Though because of it I highly doubt there will be a iBook with DVD-R. This would cut into the PowerBook line and would also make the iBook more expensive. I think everyone should be thinking to themselves how can Apple cut the price on the iBook because that is exactly what they are going to do. Just look at the iMacs and PowerMacs and consider that there is 12" PowerBook. Apple will want to differentiate the iBook further by cutting the price this would also keep them in line with the other recent price cuts.

One way to cut prices has been done, hence the $999 cd-rom only version. It has a different case from the rest. It is a solid white plastic instead of the normal clear plastic with white paint on the under side.

My DVD burner comment was just a remark about the iBook being the only model range left (emac/imac/PB/PM/iB) that does not offer one. A $100 price cut is in order... at a minimum.

IMHO of course ;)

sethwerkheiser
Feb 4, 2003, 12:56 PM
I'm planning on buying an iBook soon, but I don't want to buy one then like a week later they come out with a better and/or cheaper one. Hmmm...

yzedf
Feb 4, 2003, 01:02 PM
Originally posted by sethwerkheiser
I'm planning on buying an iBook soon, but I don't want to buy one then like a week later they come out with a better and/or cheaper one. Hmmm...

Me too. :(

My girlfriend just got a ibook G3 800 combo drive with everything maxed out... and i was not real impressed.

it is nice, but sluggish feeling.

her old imac G4 700 did not feel that way...

Bunzi2k4
Feb 4, 2003, 03:06 PM
I think they should get to g4's... I like the look and the feel of them... but I want something g4 like...

MOM
Feb 4, 2003, 03:38 PM
I beleive Think Secret mentioned a little while ago that Apple got a big batch of G3 chips in. My guess is they are for the iBook. I can't see G4 iBooks, then they would be PowerBooks. Cheap G3 iBooks would be better in this market.

cionheart
Feb 4, 2003, 03:56 PM
Yes, a while ago there were some news about Apple receiving 900 Mhz G3s. Would make sense for me but wouldn't this cut into 12" Powerbook sales?

Anyway, f they release a 900 Mhz iBook next week I'm gonna buy it in a second. *....PLEASE.....* :)

TheMightyG
Feb 4, 2003, 04:03 PM
You know...the whole G4 speed lag from our good friends at Motorola is sure messing up that nice 2x2 pro/consumer grid that Steve Jobs was touting when he came back to Apple.

Apple will have to think very hard about how it can rev up the iBook without making it look like a mini Al-book. I think the iBook will remain with a G3 until faster G4s/970s become available or else it'll cannabalize sales of the 12" PB.

When the top speed of the portable pro line is 1Ghz and the slowest consumer portable is 700Mhz, there's not much that Apple can do to differentiate products other than choose between G3 vs G4.

Damn Motorola!!!!

MOM
Feb 4, 2003, 04:13 PM
Perhaps one way out for Apple regarding the problems with the G4 vs G3 speeds is for the whole portable line to go Al and G4. In other words add a slower G4 chipt to the current 12"PB and call it the low end. Maybe they could keep some G3 around for a real cheap eBook. It would make for a simpler product grid instead of all the changes in chip and screen size. Crazy, I know.

LSP
Feb 4, 2003, 04:21 PM
Went to local Apple dealer today to buy an iMac and the cheapest iBook. The salesman persuaded (no promises) me to wait a week or two for new iBooks and told me he thinks 12" screens are being phased out for 14" screens.

moosecat
Feb 4, 2003, 04:26 PM
Argh! For the love of God, I hope they're not phasing out the 12" screen in favor of the 14". I've got a 12" iBook (or an equivalent replacement if one becomes available) on my short list of future purchases. The 14" is not attractive to me.

As an aside, isn't it quite possible that these Apple folks who keep giving hints but "no promises" are simply getting their information from the same websites we are? It's a vicious circle -- sites like Macrumors post rumors, the Apple salespersons read them and feed them back to us, we post about our conversations with those Apple folks, the Apple folks read the new posts, and so on...

TheMightyG
Feb 4, 2003, 04:26 PM
Originally posted by LSP
Went to local Apple dealer today to buy an iMac and the cheapest iBook. The salesman persuaded (no promises) me to wait a week or two for new iBooks and told me he thinks 12" screens are being phased out for 14" screens.

I don't buy it.

Most salespeople will not pass up the opportunity to make a commission by recommending that a customer wait for vaporware.

Either that or he/she has a bone to pick with the store's owner...

Plus...don't think the 12" will go away.

CrackedButter
Feb 4, 2003, 04:59 PM
I hope they don't phase out the 12", thats the one i want.

FlamDrag
Feb 4, 2003, 05:36 PM
whenever the updates happen, I wouldn't expect more than...

Bluetooth Optional (yes I know that this really means zilch since they already are)

AirPort Extreme Ready (top of the line built in)

slightly larger HD's as an option.

Price drops on base configurations.

In other words - nothing but price drops. IMHO that's all they need to since they have the Al12.

LSP
Feb 4, 2003, 07:47 PM
iBook prices in UK, France, Italy etc... have been lowered.

yzedf
Feb 4, 2003, 09:10 PM
Originally posted by TheMightyG


I don't buy it.

Most salespeople will not pass up the opportunity to make a commission by recommending that a customer wait for vaporware.

Either that or he/she has a bone to pick with the store's owner...

Plus...don't think the 12" will go away.

Apple does not pay their salespeople commission. They are hourly. To avoid bias.

bryng
Feb 4, 2003, 09:35 PM
Well, the iBooks were refreshed at the same time as the 15" TiBook, which is also on the way out as soon as stocks run low.

The iBook refresh was all pretty simple - nothing that required any great change. Even the ATI 7500 was readily compatible with the existing hardware design.

If Apple wasn't rolling out new product till early this year, that's just the kind of refresh you might expect they would do to keep sales going over the crucial Xmas season.

It was certainly less of a refresh, ignoring the new case on the lower-end machine, than was done to the newly superdrived TiBook.

That said, I bought a new iBook 800 and I think it is a real sweet machine. Curious to see how Apple's gonna top it....

Bateman
Feb 4, 2003, 09:43 PM
Do you think that a major update for the iBooks will occur in the next few months (not excluding an intermediary update with price drops in the next few weeks) targeting the college student community so that all the happy schoolers can take cool new toys to college?? Maybe in June, or (gasp) July???

just a thought since the iBook seems to target student demographic???

macr1jxb
Feb 4, 2003, 11:54 PM
Ok,

I don't know anything so this is my take based on what we know or can make educated guesses at.

There was that rumor a few weeks back about Apple teking delivery those "gobi" G3 processors, which if I remember correctly were even lower power processors running at 1Ghz.

Apple will want to get out new revs of all systems to boot X only, this will is very important to cut support costs and free up resources to focus on Mac OS X. Apple will also want to get AirPort Extreme out there as well. And, as someone else pointed out, Apple wouldn't want the iBook to cut into PowerBook sales.

So here's what I could see them doing, this is pure speculation:

They keep the current array of three basic models, 12 CD-ROM, 12 Combo, 14 Combo.

-accross the board there'd be a speed bump in line the Gobi processors.
-no hard drive size increase, since the 12" PowerBook is still 40GB.
-no superdrive, since this 1) would hurt sales of 12" PowerBook, 2) possible hurt sales of SuperDrive desktop models, 3) significantly increase the price of the "consumer" laptop, 4) complicate a line of 3 models, to 4-5 models (12 cd-rom, 12 combo, 12 superdrive, 14 combo, 14 inch superdrive)

12.1" CD-ROM
-speed bump
-AirPort ready, but no AirPort Extreme support
-CD-ROM only
-20GB HD
-bluetooth, but only through external module
-no FireWire 800

12.1" Combo
-speed bump
-AirPort Extreme ready
-Combo drive
-30GB HD (40GB custom)
-no FireWire 800
-possibly internal BlueTooth module, more likely external module

14.1" Combo
-speed bump
-AirPort Extreme ready
-Combo drive
-30GB HD (40GB custom)
-no FireWire 800
-possibly internal BlueTooth module, more likely external module

assuming they don't change the pricing, this would make a pretty smooth path of choices from a 12" CD-ROM iBook all the way through a 17" PowerBook equipped with everything but the kitchen sink.

On the other hand, if Apple is able to drop prices far enough, maybe they would try and simply the line, much like the iMac, and cut out the CD-ROM model altogether. but it is unlikely they could shave $300 off the 12" combo system to have it start at $999, nor is it likely they would raise the price of the entry level machine, and $999 is a pretty significant price point for getting customers in the door. (Apple didn't need to worry about raising the entry level price of the iMac by $100, since they didn't have a $999 iMac to begin with, and the eMac fills that sport pretty nicely)

Dave Marsh
Feb 5, 2003, 02:20 AM
If you look at today's iMac updates, it appears they're continuing to use the old motherboard with AirPort/FW 400/100MHz bus in the low end, and a new motherboard with AirPort Extreme/BT/FW 400/133MHz bus for the high end. I'd guess that any iBook updates would follow the same approach, although I'd doubt any DDR memory. If AirPort Extreme is an option, so will the internal Bluetooth module. If it's not, neither will internal BT. And, no FW 800 for consumer iBooks. That said, it would be nice to see a 1GHz G3 in an iBook. I love my 600MHz iBook, but a faster CPU and video card would be sweet.:D

GrizzlyHippo
Feb 5, 2003, 02:29 AM
I first posted this on another thread : "Will the next update to the 12" iBook kill the 12" PowerBook?" but here it is again as I think it's relevant...

My theory, for what it's worth, is that we will see the iBook range significantly re-designed. Reasons:

1 - They have to differentiate it from the 12" PB, and at the moment they are VERY similar to Joe Consumer. G3 vs G4 means nothing, but Joe looks at 800Mhz vs 867Mhz and doesn't understand the price difference.

2 - Ink HWR. Surely Apple dropped this into OSX for more than just awkward hand writing through your Wacom? If not a total tablet iBook, I can see them making it possible for kids (and grown up kids) to write and draw on the screen ala eMate.

However, I can see them still offering a traditional iBook laptop alongside any re-design so as to hedge their bets about the whole potential of the tablet market.

Anyway, those are my thoughts, and I'll take 2 of the tablet iBooks (hint hint Apple)...

Grizzly:)

Nermal
Feb 5, 2003, 02:32 AM
I hope they don't come out with a new one in the near future, cause then the one I just bought won't be top of the line anymore! :(

reflex
Feb 5, 2003, 05:29 AM
Originally posted by Nermal
I hope they don't come out with a new one in the near future, cause then the one I just bought won't be top of the line anymore! :(

Heh, I won't have that problem. I didn't buy the top of the line anyway.

Yesterday I was hoping they wouldn't bring out new iBooks next week, but now that mine has arrived, I've changed my mind. This thing is beautiful and I don't care what they come out with next. Although I'll still want that as well :)

Hmm
Feb 5, 2003, 11:03 AM
Originally posted by yzedf

A $100 price cut is in order... at a minimum.


Actually, they did cut the price of the 14" iBook by $100 when the alBooks were introduced.

nighthawk
Feb 5, 2003, 11:13 AM
Originally posted by yzedf


Me too. :(

My girlfriend just got a ibook G3 800 combo drive with everything maxed out... and i was not real impressed.

it is nice, but sluggish feeling.

her old imac G4 700 did not feel that way...

Then main difference between the iBook and the iMacG4 (other than the processor) is that the hard drive is much slower -- which could cause the sluggishness. Also, if you are running on battery power, the default setting for the iBook is to conserve power. This means that the processor will be doing "speed-step" similar to the Intel chips and will be running at a lower mhz speed during average operations.

nighthawk
Feb 5, 2003, 11:39 AM
If there is an update, this is what I think would happen...

Bottom End
12" iBook, as is, but with 800mhz processor and DVD-ROM drive with a BTO option for the combo drive. Price remains $999. (the trend in the Apple computers seems to be toward DVD -- this would be a low cost upgrade for Apple, but a value to the consumer. The difference in price for the G3 700 and 800mhz chips is next to nothing nothing.)

Middle End
13-14" iBook
Redesigned case with the Airport Extreme and Bluetooth internal options. Slot-loading Combo drive with a BTO option for the Superdrive. Processor running at 800mhz and a GeForce4 Go (same as Powerbook 12") video card. System bus at 133mhz, but only SDRAM not DDR. I would like to see 256mb memory on the main board instead of 128mb. The price? It will have to go up to at least $1399 with the superdrive BTO bringing it to $1599.

High End
13-14" iBook
Same as above... but the processor running at 933mhzThe price? It will have to go up to at least $1599 with the superdrive BTO bringing it to $1799.

This widens the gap for the bottom end iBook and the mid-range... but that makes sense because Apple is going to want the buyer to think... "If I only spend $___ more, then I can get a 12" Powerbook instead." But this still a significant upgrade for the iBook.

TheMightyG
Feb 5, 2003, 11:46 AM
Your predictions make sense on the most part, but I can't see Apple spec-ing the high end consumer portable "faster" in terms of Mhz than the low end pro portable. Apple has never done this.

Even though most Apple savvy people know the difference between the G3 and G4, Joe Sixpack (conditioned by a lifetime of Wintel Mhz brainwashing) will probably get very confused choosing between a 933 G3 and 867 G4.

Unfortunately, I think that Mac-specific tech ignorance amongst the average buying populace retains strong inertial forces.

nighthawk
Feb 5, 2003, 01:36 PM
Originally posted by TheMightyG
Your predictions make sense on the most part, but I can't see Apple spec-ing the high end consumer portable "faster" in terms of Mhz than the low end pro portable. Apple has never done this.

This is not true... when the iMac G4 came out over one year ago, the high end model was faster than the bottom end Powermac, and the Bottom end iMac was really close to the bottom end Powermac

iMac Powermac
700mhz 733mhz
800mhz 933mhz

And this is assuming that Apple does come out with a new model within the next several months without updating (again) the Powerbook line. Apple is NOT going to only give a 50mhz speed bump. The question is going to be more of wheither or not it will be a 100mhz bus or a 133mhz bus for the upper end iBook. I vote 133mhz because that is what the model is going to need for future revisions. But if it is 100mhz, then the processor would still be at 900mhz.

It might confuse buyers, but there would be a significant of enough difference between the iBook and the Powerbook. Remember, that the main competition for the iBook is not the Powerbook, but the 2.0Ghz P4 and Celerons notebooks.

TheMightyG
Feb 5, 2003, 01:40 PM
Ah..I stand corrected.

:cool:

However, I still worry that the pro and consumer lines will blur together too much if the iBook is bumped up to 900Mhz with or without a system bus boost....

Bunzi2k4
Feb 5, 2003, 02:07 PM
the 12 in is what i'm saving up for... how long do you guys think a new ibook will last... i hear from some peeps like 2 yrs... but i not sure... this imac has lasted me 4 so far...

bokdol
Feb 5, 2003, 03:53 PM
Originally posted by TheMightyG
Your predictions make sense on the most part, but I can't see Apple spec-ing the high end consumer portable "faster" in terms of Mhz than the low end pro portable. Apple has never done this.

Even though most Apple savvy people know the difference between the G3 and G4, Joe Sixpack (conditioned by a lifetime of Wintel Mhz brainwashing) will probably get very confused choosing between a 933 G3 and 867 G4.

Unfortunately, I think that Mac-specific tech ignorance amongst the average buying populace retains strong inertial forces.

the pc world blurs their lines all the time. they have there celeron lines up to 2 ghz and have there p4 line at the same. look at the dell notebook line alone on their site. they have 5 different machines all from 1 ghz to 2. an average user in the pc world looks at price first before numbers. while most mac "book" owners look at speed and video card. i know many pc notebook owners who care about cost because they dont use it for anything but playing movies/music. and typing.
personaly i want a 12 inch 1ghz g3 ibook with a radeon 9000 card and combo. superdrives should not be in ibooks. but airport extreme should.:)

ChoMomma
Feb 5, 2003, 11:25 PM
I'm looking for a price drop in the new iBooks so that I can get my sister-in-law a current iBook cheaper : )

I sold her HP Omnibook (at her request) hehe...

I've been lurking on Ebay for a month now and I can't get an iBook (at least 700Mhz) for $850 (what I have from the sale of her laptop).

So I'm hoping to see the 700's or 800(lowend) models come down to my range : )

I use my TiBook 800 with pride ; ) I drool over the newer Al Books... but I am damn happy as it is. ..... unless they release an updated 15" Al.. then I might get the trade-up jitters haha
:D

BeigeUser
Feb 5, 2003, 11:30 PM
I can't find that information on Kodawarisan's site. Was it removed?

cionheart
Feb 6, 2003, 12:21 AM
Originally posted by BeigeUser
I can't find that information on Kodawarisan's site. Was it removed?

No, it's still there:

"It seems that as for the iMac and the eMac, this week the AirMac Extreme card slot and the Bluetooth are built in by the first half, become announcement. According to information, design of the logic board was modified substantially, also the frame was modified part, it is thing. Furthermore, it seems that also announcement of the iBook is planned in the following week."

-- cionheart

hyperlucid
Feb 6, 2003, 03:01 PM
Originally posted by nighthawk


This is not true... when the iMac G4 came out over one year ago, the high end model was faster than the bottom end Powermac, and the Bottom end iMac was really close to the bottom end Powermac



Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't those specs like that for only a few weeks before they released the new PowerMacs? (I bought the dual 800 the day Steve announced the new imacs assuming with no Expo announcement there would be no speed increase in the PowerMacs for a while. Boy did I feel stupid a few weeks later).

Abstract
Feb 6, 2003, 05:18 PM
Originally posted by GrizzlyHippo
I first posted this on another thread : "Will the next update to the 12" iBook kill the 12" PowerBook?" but here it is again as I think it's relevant...

My theory, for what it's worth, is that we will see the iBook range significantly re-designed. Reasons:

1 - They have to differentiate it from the 12" PB, and at the moment they are VERY similar to Joe Consumer. G3 vs G4 means nothing, but Joe looks at 800Mhz vs 867Mhz and doesn't understand the price difference.

.....

Grizzly:)

Ah damn, if I knew about this thread, I wouldn't have started the other. ;)

Anyway, the iBook won't get a speed bump. Why? Because of the $800 price difference between the low-end machines of both the 12" iBook and 12" PB. They are already very similarly spec'ed, and by bumping the speed of the iBook to 900Mhz, for example, you're giving people less of a reason to buy a 12"PB.

The reason an update won't come soon is because of the 12"PB just recently being introduced. They act as a block for any iBook updates, so don't expect a speed bump in April (6 month cycles, right? ;)) like it normally would. The 12" iBook will not get a speed bump until the 12" PB gets a speed bump to G4 1Ghz, which would make it June or July before their next update. The 12" iBook may then get a 900Ghz G3, since the performance difference is still clearly visible to most consumers. They wouldn't release a 900Mhz or 1Ghz iBook if they knew they were going to release a 12" PB. This would cannabalize the sales numbers of the 12"PB. And anyway, the 12" PB is only marginally better as it is now, with the iBook actually performing as good, or better than the 12" PB in certain processes. No L3 cache in the 12" PB? Big mistake by Apple. So speed bumping the iBook will only blur the lines even further, since there would be no way to justify the cost difference between them. And don't expect Bluetooth or APExtreme either. ;)

However, this doesn't mean that the 14" iBook won't get a speed bump on its own.

Here is what's going to happen IF there's an update to the iBooks soon:

12" 700 G3 iBook
*Combo Drive*
*30GB Harddrive*
128MB Ram
$999

12" 800Mhz G3 iBook
Combo Drive
128MB Ram
*Nvidia 32MB GeForce 420 Go* (instead of ATI Radeon 7500 32MB)
30GB HD
$1299


14" 800Mhz G3 iBook
(everything remains the same except price, which drops by $100)
$1399 (originally $1499)

**14" 900Mhz G3 iBook**
Combo Drive
640MB Ram
40GB HD
*Nvidia 32MB GeForce 420 Go*
*$1799** ($50 more than before and same price as 12"PB)

No Bluetooth Support
No APExtreme
If they're updated in July instead of April, the 12" iBook gets a 900 Mhz cpu as well. ;)

timbloom
Feb 6, 2003, 06:16 PM
I wouldn't mind an ibook update, considering mine is broken, sitting at Apple's depot on hold for the last week. I might have to just buy a new one cause it looks like they don't know how to fix it, sigh. Just my personal rant. Sorry, had to vent some steam.

BTW, just to let you know, the lowend ibook has a different case, slightly redesigned, if you look closely. Which points to me that only the higher end ones will be updated, and not a whole new line. My personal thought would be that apple might add a new screen (same physical size as the 14") to the 14" model, giving it a little higher resolution. Maybe maybe not, but a possibility.

timbloom
Feb 6, 2003, 06:25 PM
it WOULD have aiport extreme though, they added it to the iMac, so it isnt only a pro-product at the time like bluetooth and previously ddr and the g4 were.
My personal opinion is that they will give it a feature update more than a speed update, just like the PB's were given. Keeping them with slower processors allow them to be more affordable, and have longer battery lives than the pro machines, somthing that consumers demand more than just speed.

iwantanewmac
Feb 6, 2003, 06:38 PM
This might be a little off topic but are there any Ibook users out there who use the ibook on stage with a band for audio playback/sequencing?
Is the ibook fast enough for that? should I wait for upgrades or buy a new 12 inch PB?

guttata
Feb 6, 2003, 10:05 PM
I had saved a couple of orders on Apples site (which requires you to register, and I entered my phone number) - an iBook and a 15" PB. (I've already decided that the 15" PB is out of my price range, and too large, but I digress...)

Apple called me, and I was talking to the Apple guy about my saved order, and about "Switching" (although I'm really "adding" onto my desktop Linux system). This was on Tuesday, when they updated the iMac. He told me that it was quite probable that next week they would either update the iBook, or the 15" PB, and that I might want to hold off until then.

I'm hoping it is the iBook - I love the 12" PB, but for my needs, the iBook is probably a better deal (off topic - does anyone know if GIMP benefits from the G4?) Of course, I have never got to see either of these machines in person - I'd have to travel down to Indy for that (2 hrs one-way).

Just some info to muddy the water :)

nighthawk
Feb 7, 2003, 11:18 AM
Originally posted by iwantanewmac
This might be a little off topic but are there any Ibook users out there who use the ibook on stage with a band for audio playback/sequencing?
Is the ibook fast enough for that? should I wait for upgrades or buy a new 12 inch PB?

If you are planning on using Cubase VST instruments that require the G4, yes you will need the 12" Powerbook.

If you are planning on playing back a lot a samples, the hard drive on both machines might be limited because they are 4200 RPM. I would recommend getting a full size external firewire harddrive that runs at 7200 RPM.

If you are planning on doing straight MIDI sequencing to the keyboard or modules, then the iBook is perfect. I have been doing that since the Powerbook 100 (the orginal).

coachingguy
Feb 7, 2003, 11:30 PM
It's interesting reading. There really has been little iBook discussion since the 12"pb came out. I've been looking for posts and have asked questions at other sites... As I'm waiting for an iBook update myself. You guys have the most info/opinion. I think they will update the iBook, there will be a price drop across the board, to further differentiate it from the 12" G4 PB. They can't offer an iBook with superdrive, backlite keyboard or FW 800, that needs to stay in the "Pro" models for now. They will increase the HD's, I wouldn't be surprised to see them up the mhz though. I can see them going with Airport Extreme though, as they'll want to sell more of the new technology stations. Bluetooth will be a BTO as a small % of consumers will need it and it will keep the price down. I wouldn't mind a color option... there have been rumors to that. Keep the tough plastic but offer it in a black...? Apple must keep a laptop at the sub $1000 price point. What I would like/am looking for is
14", 900-1Ghz, 40 gig, combo, airport extreme, black $1499-$1599 before education pricing. I'd order the day they were released. Whattya think?

Sun Baked
Feb 8, 2003, 12:21 AM
For some reason, I expect nothing to happen to the iBooks -- just like the eMac, no real change to the hardware.

However a speed bump would be nice.

el_aarono
Feb 8, 2003, 01:16 AM
Just a thought....

At Macworld didn't Steve Jobs say 2003 would be "the year of the laptop"? If so, it seems like they would want to start the year out with fresh laptop updates in both the pro and consumer lines. Its already February and "the year of the laptop" is already 1/12 over. If the iBook is to be included in this "laptop year", then Apple had better hurry and do something special with it. Hopefully that means "innovative" (S. Jobs' favorite word) updates/changes soon.

Just a thought.....

JSRockit
Feb 8, 2003, 07:41 AM
No speed bump to the iBook...just a redesign to add bluetooth and airport extreme. Maybe some cosmetic changes to freshen it up.

As for the 12" pBook having no L3 cache as "big mistake"...name any other 12" notebook on the market with an L3 cache...Ok?...try this...name any other notebook beside the 15" and 17" pBooks that have an L3 cache. The L3 Cache didn't show up in a notebook til the 667mhz-800mhz TiBooks.

I have both the iBook and the 12" pBook...the 12" pBook is in a whole other class.

CrackedButter
Feb 8, 2003, 04:41 PM
Apple should of released the 12" PB with a 1Ghz processor and with the L3 Cache but without the firewire 800 and the fancy keyboard.

That would of given the ibooks some breathing room with the processor.

But if Apple is dropping prices then i doubt it because they have just dropped the price on the lower laptop. But how useful is a laptop these days with only a CDROM?

If there is an update then Apple should only update that 12" to a DVD ROM drive. No AE and no BT, no even as BTO, it could stay as a simple laptop for people who want something cheap. Apple then has something for both the mobile and the desktop that is cheap.

The 12" Combo iBook should have a speed bump inline with the 14"iBook Combo with a faster bus and with AE with BT as BTO. Basically keep their updates the same, the only difference between them would be the screen size.

However the 14" iBook at the top of the range could have everything. Faster processor as the other 2, plus faster bus, AE + BT and the Applecare and such.

JSRockit
Feb 8, 2003, 04:53 PM
Yeah...I've always thought the low-end should have a CD-RW drive or a DVD drive...even if they bumped the price up $50.

nighthawk
Feb 9, 2003, 01:07 AM
Maybe Apple is just waiting for the Motorola MPC7457 chip to be released. It would be an ideal chip to put in the G4 Powerbook line, with lower power requirements and lower heat. That chip is suppose to be a pin compatible chip with the current G4 chips, and Apple might be able to just "drop" them into the Powerbooks without modifying the motherboard.

That would also allow Apple to bump up the processor speed to top at least 1.25ghz. Or maybe, if the rumors are true about a 1.4ghz G4 upgrade for the Cube, then a 1.4ghz would work in the Powerbook 17" as well. Then the 12" Powerbook could be bumped up to 1.0ghz and the iBook bumped up to 1.0ghz also with the Gobi G3 chip.

Motorola Doc on Lower-Wattage G4 7457 CPU w/512KB on-chip L2 Cache
www.xlr8yourmac.com (http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/archives/nov02/110402.html#S14674)
(from a reader email)

"You are likely already aware of this, but Motorola has a PDF detailing the PowerPC 7457,
http://e-www.motorola.com/brdata/PDFDB/docs/PPCSALESFACT.pdf

It doesn't have any real performance gain over the 7455, its listed as having a CPU speed range of 733 - 1300MHz, and identical SPEC and MIPS to the 7455. It does move to the 0.13 process, has 512k L2 cache, supports a 200MHz frontside bus, and 4MB backside bus.

Its power consumption is lower, 7.5W @ 1GHz, (that's estimated typical, not max. wattage. -Mike) so it will be good for the Powerbook, and will hopefully scale to higher speeds for the Powermac.
Nickk"

Noc
Feb 9, 2003, 02:23 AM
Originally posted by Abstract

12" 800Mhz G3 iBook
Combo Drive
128MB Ram
*Nvidia 32MB GeForce 420 Go* (instead of ATI Radeon 7500 32MB)
30GB HD
$1299


I agree with what you said in that if they update the iBook, it will be w/ other specs, not the processor.

One key thing Apple could do is to change from the ATI Radeon graphics card, because there is a known hack for it that allows monitor spanning on the iBook. Now that Apple has a close cousin to the iBook, it probably wants to stop this monitor spanning hack on the iBook to further differentiate it from the 12" PowerBook. Very good reason for an update, I think.

iwantanewmac
Feb 9, 2003, 06:34 AM
Originally posted by nighthawk


If you are planning on using Cubase VST instruments that require the G4, yes you will need the 12" Powerbook.

If you are planning on playing back a lot a samples, the hard drive on both machines might be limited because they are 4200 RPM. I would recommend getting a full size external firewire harddrive that runs at 7200 RPM.

If you are planning on doing straight MIDI sequencing to the keyboard or modules, then the iBook is perfect. I have been doing that since the Powerbook 100 (the orginal).

I allready thought that the harddrive might be a little too slow. Arent there any faster 1es for notebooks?

I really want to use it only for playback of audio files. No midi at all.
I hope that the motu 828 ddoes support any external FW drives.

JSRockit
Feb 9, 2003, 02:37 PM
Originally posted by iwantanewmac


I allready thought that the harddrive might be a little too slow. Arent there any faster 1es for notebooks?

I really want to use it only for playback of audio files. No midi at all.
I hope that the motu 828 ddoes support any external FW drives.

Some notebooks have 5400 drives, but not many. Your best bet is to get a FW drive if you are concerned. If you are using more than just a few tracks...you will need a faster drive.

yzedf
Feb 9, 2003, 06:20 PM
Originally posted by JSRockit
No speed bump to the iBook...just a redesign to add bluetooth and airport extreme. Maybe some cosmetic changes to freshen it up.

As for the 12" pBook having no L3 cache as "big mistake"...name any other 12" notebook on the market with an L3 cache...Ok?...try this...name any other notebook beside the 15" and 17" pBooks that have an L3 cache. The L3 Cache didn't show up in a notebook til the 667mhz-800mhz TiBooks.

I have both the iBook and the 12" pBook...the 12" pBook is in a whole other class.

which iBook?

older one with a 67MHz bus?

xbench scores on the 2 are similar...

iwantanewmac
Feb 9, 2003, 06:38 PM
Originally posted by JSRockit


Some notebooks have 5400 drives, but not many. Your best bet is to get a FW drive if you are concerned. If you are using more than just a few tracks...you will need a faster drive.

Thanks for the advice.
I think I definetely need an external drive.
Maybe I can pick up a refurbished PB somewhere.
(maybe the Ibook 800 is to light for this kind of work)

JSRockit
Feb 9, 2003, 07:18 PM
Originally posted by yzedf


which iBook?

older one with a 67MHz bus?

xbench scores on the 2 are similar...

Nope...the 700mhz 16MB VRAM model... by whole other class I am not focusing only on speed. The 12" pBook is just made better. Not to mention not all benchmarks are accurate anyway.

yzedf
Feb 11, 2003, 12:41 PM
Originally posted by JSRockit


Nope...the 700mhz 16MB VRAM model... by whole other class I am not focusing only on speed. The 12" pBook is just made better. Not to mention not all benchmarks are accurate anyway.

How is it "just made better?"

Have you taken them apart side by side?

Having picked up both, they seem to be of similar quality. With the nod towards the iBook in the durability race.

YMMV

JSRockit
Feb 11, 2003, 07:12 PM
Originally posted by yzedf


How is it "just made better?"

Have you taken them apart side by side?

Having picked up both, they seem to be of similar quality. With the nod towards the iBook in the durability race.

YMMV

I own both and use both...the 12" pBook's keyboard is 10 times better...the material, yes...aluminum...is much nicer aesthetically speaking and the laptop as a whole seems to be put together better than the iBook (the case). The iBook no longer has the upper hand on durability. The 12" pBook is strong.

Sun Baked
Feb 12, 2003, 12:47 AM
Originally posted by JSRockit


I own both and use both...the 12" pBook's keyboard is 10 times better...the material, yes...aluminum...is much nicer aesthetically speaking and the laptop as a whole seems to be put together better than the iBook (the case). The iBook no longer has the upper hand on durability. The 12" pBook is strong. If you take the iBook and the PowerBook 12 apart and look at the logic boards, you'll see that the new PowerBook 12 looks a lot like an updated iBook with a G4 instead of a G3.

With the old iBook being on the old Pangea chipset it shared with the last generation SDR iMac. And the new PowerBook 12 sharing the Intrepid chipset with the new DDR iMac.

However neither machine shares the chipset with the PowerBook 17, which should be the UN2.x/KeyLargo chipset from the DDR PowerMacs. (guess based on feature set, and the TiBook)

So when people say that the PowerBook 12 is a lot like an G4 iBook, they're right. ;)

But the people who say that the eMac is a CRT iMac are wrong, the eMac is made from the SDR PowerMac chipset -- not an iMac chipset. :p

JSRockit
Feb 12, 2003, 07:09 AM
Originally posted by Sun Baked
If you take the iBook and the PowerBook 12 apart and look at the logic boards, you'll see that the new PowerBook 12 looks a lot like an updated iBook with a G4 instead of a G3.



I understand the iBook and 12" pBook are similar internally (640mb of RAM isn't a coincidence), however I was speaking of external build quality. My 12" pBook seems alot more solid than my iBook.

zach
Feb 16, 2003, 09:19 PM
i know this is a fantasy, but how bout a iBook with a touchscreen that can rotate so that it is facing out, or be kept facing in to be used as a normal laptop? I think that would be pretty cool, and Apple has said this is the year of the notebook, so maybe....

JSRockit
Feb 17, 2003, 08:17 AM
Originally posted by zap23
i know this is a fantasy, but how bout a iBook with a touchscreen that can rotate so that it is facing out, or be kept facing in to be used as a normal laptop? I think that would be pretty cool, and Apple has said this is the year of the notebook, so maybe....

What do you need this for? Cool Gimmickry? or do you have a purpose for this?

Dave Marsh
Feb 17, 2003, 01:23 PM
The Clio 1000 Windows CE device has such a flip around touch screen. It uses two articulating arms (one of each side of keyboard) to allow the screen to be rotated 180 degrees so that you can have it lay flat with the screen up, looking much like today's Windows Tablet computers. It has no hard drive, but works well as a terminal device accessing a server running terminal services. Before getting my iBook, I used it to run IE on my server to browse the web, sort of like a remote screen for the server. I accessed the server via WiFi. It is a clever design, but patented. That's why other laptops in the Windows market use the single flip-around hinge on the back of the laptop for rotating the screen.

zach
Feb 17, 2003, 02:05 PM
Originally posted by JSRockit
What do you need this for? Cool Gimmickry? or do you have a purpose for this? Well, it would be a tablet that could also be used as a normal laptop. It's easier to use a laptop to type long things, but a tablet is great for taking notes on. Also, it could have like a 10 inch screen so that it would be small and portable. No. That wouldnt work. Ahhhh! I need Apple to make a new Newton!!!!!!!! iNewton, iPDA, whateveryoucallit but i need one!

JSRockit
Feb 17, 2003, 02:15 PM
Originally posted by zap23
Well, it would be a tablet that could also be used as a normal laptop. It's easier to use a laptop to type long things, but a tablet is great for taking notes on. Also, it could have like a 10 inch screen so that it would be small and portable. No. That wouldnt work. Ahhhh! I need Apple to make a new Newton!!!!!!!! iNewton, iPDA, whateveryoucallit but i need one!

I'd like a 10" subnotebook...but I don't think we'll see either of our dreams come true.