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Alexander
Apr 6, 2006, 02:31 PM
I just ran ATITool 0.25 Beta 14, and it showed that the X1600 in my low-end iMac was running at 313MHz core, 300MHz memory.

So I overclocked it. It's now stable at (no typo) 440MHz core, 576MHz memory. Yes, that is about 50% faster, and FPS readings back that up.

Keep in mind that the Mobility X1600 is supposed to be clocked around 470MHz core, 470MHz memory. The desktop version of the chip is the same, but is clocked about 100MHz+ faster.

It should be able to be pushed even faster when we actually have the fans running properly.



jamesmcd
Apr 6, 2006, 02:40 PM
I was starting to wonder actually... BF2 was giving me pretty bad FPS. How did you overclock it?

BlizzardBomb
Apr 6, 2006, 02:42 PM
Does this work http://thomas.perrier.name/software/ATIcceleratorII.html
I would double-check seeing as its beta software.

bousozoku
Apr 6, 2006, 02:43 PM
That's a lot but don't you worry about overheating? I think the reason they went with the nVidia chipset originally was because it didn't produce a lot of heat.

Josh396
Apr 6, 2006, 02:43 PM
Wow. I guess the good news about it being underclocked is the performance I'm getting out of it. I've been extremely impressed with the card. However, if I'm able to get better performance out of it I'd love to. How did you go about overclocking it? Also, how big of improvements in FPS did you see and in what game? Thanks a lot.

R.Youden
Apr 6, 2006, 02:43 PM
I think this may be quite common with Apple hardware, it maybe one of the reasons why the OS is more reliable. It would be interesting to see what happens in the long run. Do any of you board temps increase dramatically with this overclocking?

jamesmcd
Apr 6, 2006, 02:45 PM
That link that was provided earlier is to a mac o/c tool. We are after the XP version I should think.

Alexander
Apr 6, 2006, 02:45 PM
How did you overclock it?

Here's the link:

http://www.techpowerup.com/downloads/259

Just download, install, then hit the Find Max Core/Find Max Mem buttons, and give it a while.

Keep in mind that BF2 is a real RAM hog, I wouldn't try playing it with less than 1GB, and 2GB is better.

Josh396
Apr 6, 2006, 02:48 PM
Does this work http://thomas.perrier.name/software/ATIcceleratorII.html
I would double-check seeing as its beta software.
Looks like a good program. However, when I dual boot into Windows would it how would it preform? I would assume everything would be okay, but is there a greater chance that something could go wrong if I'm playing CS:S?

jamesmcd
Apr 6, 2006, 02:49 PM
Cheers for that. This doesn't flash the card at all does it?

Alexander
Apr 6, 2006, 02:53 PM
That's a lot but don't you worry about overheating?

No. Overclocking does not increase heat output, unless you start increasing the voltage, which I don't even think you can do without some hardware hacking.

For any given temperature, there is a speed that will be reliable. The reason overclocking exists is that for the max temperature your system is likely to see, that reliable speed is much higher than the speed that the manufacturer decided to run the chip at.

The X1600 in my iMac is clearly FAR underclocked. I was able to push it to 445/585 before it started glitching. Pull it back a few MHz, and voila, stable system.

If, for some reason, my machine ends up running hotter one day (summer?), it may start randomly rebooting, showing graphical artifacts, etc. I will know to decrease the overclocking a little bit at that time.

Alternatively, I could pull the overclocking FAR back from the maximum I observed, to, say, 400/500, and I guarantee you I would never see a problem.

Steve1496
Apr 6, 2006, 02:54 PM
Yeah, I was just running ATITool too, it can really improve performance. I clocked my core at 440 as well, memmory 540. My iMac was at 380 Core, 320 memmory by default.

In 3D View, it's now showing the 3D effect at 104FPS average!


Steve

Alexander
Apr 6, 2006, 02:55 PM
This doesn't flash the card at all does it?

No, it's a setting that is automatically reset on reboot. (which is why an OS X overclocker would be useless for XP.) You can set the software to automatically launch and fix the clock speeds on each startup, if you like.

Josh396
Apr 6, 2006, 02:56 PM
Here's the link:

http://www.techpowerup.com/downloads/259

Just download, install, then hit the Find Max Core/Find Max Mem buttons, and give it a while.

Keep in mind that BF2 is a real RAM hog, I wouldn't try playing it with less than 1GB, and 2GB is better.
I have 2 GB of RAM so I'm okay there. I see the program you linked is a windows program (that or I can't read correctly), have you ran any games on OS X to see if theres improvement there? Or is it just windows specific? Also, (probably a stupid question) could it be possible the drivers made by Apple for Windows affect it somehow? Could they have underclocked it for Windows only? Thanks again.

Steve1496
Apr 6, 2006, 03:01 PM
Just be careful how far you go. I just got this after it froze for about 15 seconds.

Alexander
Apr 6, 2006, 03:03 PM
Just be careful how far you go. I just got this after it froze for about 15 seconds.

Yeah, that kind of error is normal after you hit the ceiling. Clearly you'll want to run it a little slower than the speed that caused that. ;)

Kingsly
Apr 6, 2006, 03:28 PM
What are the clock speeds on the MBP?
What kind of FPS are you getting now that its overclocked? Before you overclocked?

bousozoku
Apr 6, 2006, 03:33 PM
No. Overclocking does not increase heat output, unless you start increasing the voltage, which I don't even think you can do without some hardware hacking.

For any given temperature, there is a speed that will be reliable. The reason overclocking exists is that for the max temperature your system is likely to see, that reliable speed is much higher than the speed that the manufacturer decided to run the chip at.

The X1600 in my iMac is clearly FAR underclocked. I was able to push it to 445/585 before it started glitching. Pull it back a few MHz, and voila, stable system.

If, for some reason, my machine ends up running hotter one day (summer?), it may start randomly rebooting, showing graphical artifacts, etc. I will know to decrease the overclocking a little bit at that time.

Alternatively, I could pull the overclocking FAR back from the maximum I observed, to, say, 400/500, and I guarantee you I would never see a problem.

Well, it definitely seems reasonable. I'd like to see it work similarly in the MacBook Pro. Apple generally likes to play it safe. It's good to see that it's possible to go much further.

Alexander
Apr 6, 2006, 03:46 PM
What are the clock speeds on the MBP?
What kind of FPS are you getting now that its overclocked? Before you overclocked?

Test scene in Guild Wars was about 30FPS before, about 47FPS after.

I'd be curious to know about default speed and overclock potential of the MBP as well. You should be able to get into a similar ballpark, since it's the same chip. It's probably cooled differently in the MBP, though.

BlizzardBomb
Apr 6, 2006, 03:48 PM
Just to make sure you guys are aware, this voids your AppleCare.

Lord Blackadder
Apr 6, 2006, 04:01 PM
No. Overclocking does not increase heat output, unless you start increasing the voltage, which I don't even think you can do without some hardware hacking.

I disagree - In my experience with a Radeon 7500, 9600 Pro and GeForce 6800GT overclocking can cause temperatures to jump by as much as 20C. For example, when running my GeForce 6800GT at the "stock" speed of 350/1000MHz the card idled around 58-62C, which is warm but not unusual for this card. An overclock to 400/1100MHz produced idle temps of up to 80C, which is a little too hot for daily use without an upgrade to the heatsink-fan setup. Higher average temps = shorter video card lifespan.

Running overclocked day-to-day at hihger temps is less of a concern when you are running a regular desktop video card, but if by some mischance you burn up the GPU in your iMac you're screwed.

I'm not saying don't OC your video cards, just be aware that the risk is substantially higher in Macs with non-upgradable video cards (i.e. all Macs other than the towers). If any of you choose to fiddle with overclocking, make sure to download the Temperature Monitor app from versiontracker and be aware of what your GPU's shutdown temp is - you'll want to stay WELL below that (by perhaps at least 30%) at all times.

IIRC, the X1600 in the iMac is a mobility GPU, so it should be rated for a lower clock than the desktop version. Also, I'm not sure what kind of thermal management the GPU in the iMac gets, so Apple may have cranked the speed down a notch for reliability reasons.

Those claimed FPS improvements are pretty good though - as long as the OC is truly stable it may be something for the gaming enthusiast iMac owner to consider.

daveL
Apr 6, 2006, 04:05 PM
No. Overclocking does not increase heat output, unless you start increasing the voltage, which I don't even think you can do without some hardware hacking.

I'm sorry, but there's no way a chip is going to run at a higher clock frequency and not produce more heat. Think about the physics of it for a moment.

Alexander
Apr 6, 2006, 04:12 PM
Hehe, you got me, I was just makin' stuff up.

So, does hacking in a water-cooling system void my AppleCare too?

Demon Hunter
Apr 6, 2006, 04:18 PM
Just be careful how far you go. I just got this after it froze for about 15 seconds.

Yeah, don't try unless you know what you're doing. Or start saving for a new logic board!

Steve1496
Apr 6, 2006, 04:21 PM
Yeah, don't try unless you know what you're doing. Or start saving for a new logic board!


I would say I know what I'm doing, but I wanted to try things out. Live dangerously:)


Steve

harveypooka
Apr 6, 2006, 05:20 PM
Hey, this sounds ace! I have never done anything like this, so just to clarify:

Can this software cause damage to your system?

Will it also speed the card up for MacOSX or is it just when this is running?

Is there anything to worry about or is it just going to cause crashes/resets at the worst?

I just don't want my iMac to be a pool of nice, white goo.... :)

mlrproducts
Apr 6, 2006, 08:51 PM
It only voids your Applecare if you can't clock it back down! (ie: some idiot with no experience waaaay overclocks it and burns the damn thing up. HINT - if you are getting freezes when playing games, down clock it!)

Lord Blackadder
Apr 6, 2006, 09:23 PM
Hey, this sounds ace! I have never done anything like this, so just to clarify:

Can this software cause damage to your system?

Yes. Overclocking software merely lets you manually set the speed of the GPU and VRAM. It's entirely up to you to make sure not to set it so high that you damage things.

Will it also speed the card up for MacOSX or is it just when this is running?

Overclocking a card makes everything work better - technically. A small overclock may not be noticable. In fact, sometimes the maximum safe overclock speed produces a negligible increase in performance.

Is there anything to worry about or is it just going to cause crashes/resets at the worst?

I just don't want my iMac to be a pool of nice, white goo.... :)

Worst case scenario - you overheat the card to the point that it fries. Your logic board is ruined, with collateral damage to other internal bits. Cha-Ching $$$$. :(

The best way to overclock a card is to increase the speed in small increments. If the screen starts producing artifacts or the computer crashes, TURN THE SPEED DOWN. Monitor temperatures carefully. Be aware what a safe temperature range is for your GPU and do not overclock the card to the point that it regularly exceeds that temperature range.

Vlade
Apr 6, 2006, 10:06 PM
Just to make sure you guys are aware, this voids your AppleCare.

No it doesn't, its ALL software controlled, its just like overclocking the video card with ATICellorator on PPC macs. When I flashed my firmware on my old Geforce2MX on my Powermac that probably voided the applecare!:rolleyes:

Does anyone know what the clocks are in Mac OS X?

glorfindeal
Apr 7, 2006, 07:27 AM
I just ran ATITool 0.25 Beta 14, and it showed that the X1600 in my low-end iMac was running at 313MHz core, 300MHz memory.

So I overclocked it. It's now stable at (no typo) 440MHz core, 576MHz memory. Yes, that is about 50% faster, and FPS readings back that up.

Keep in mind that the Mobility X1600 is supposed to be clocked around 470MHz core, 470MHz memory. The desktop version of the chip is the same, but is clocked about 100MHz+ faster.

It should be able to be pushed even faster when we actually have the fans running properly.

I just ran atitool on my iMac 20". I was able to clock core to 515 and memory to 575. I could have gone higher but I wanted to put in a margin of safety. The tool said I could go as high a 540/594. The default in the 20" iMac is 400/400.

Glor

designed
Apr 7, 2006, 07:42 AM
I just ran the 3DMark '06 earlier and the fans didn't really engage (altough a slight step up could be heard) so this whole overclocking business is a bit no-go until people start telling their experiences with overclocking and the fans.

Interestingly enough, the 3DMark showed that my X1600 was running at 400MHz processor and 200MHz memory, which seems to be normal when compared to other 3DMark-mac-results. Only my score was quite low compared to them.

Oh yeah, is there a software to pull out any temperature numbers from inside of the mac?

Maxiseller
Apr 7, 2006, 08:01 AM
It's an interesting point about the AppleCare...

If this is a software solution, it may not void it? And if, heaven forbid, something did go wrong and the logic board died a horrible death it could be extremely difficult for Apple to figure out that it was overclocking that caused the problem in the first place, no?

FarSide
Apr 7, 2006, 08:30 AM
Be carefull boys - a new logicboard won't be covered by apple when you overclocked the GPU on it - start saving money if you don't know what you are doing... $$$

livingfortoday
Apr 7, 2006, 08:39 AM
Does anyone know of any way to check the speed my Mini's GPU is running at and/or OC it? I'm already playing some games smoothly, if I could tweak it a little bit that'd be nice, though.

MacRumorsReader
Apr 7, 2006, 09:36 AM
Oh yeah, is there a software to pull out any temperature numbers from inside of the mac?

iStatPro

Find it on Version Tracker... or google

blueflame
Apr 7, 2006, 09:44 AM
i have a mbp 2.0. in windows XP i installed ATI tools, and then tried to run it, gives me an error saying cannot find bios. which i understand, i just want to know how you all got it to work. thanks very much
andreas

DTG
Apr 7, 2006, 09:49 AM
Just thought I'd post my findings here after playing with ATITool a little.

My 20" iMac has default core and memory of 400/400.

When I pushed the memory to 410 my screen went black.

When I clicked "Find Max Core" my screen went black and I got the VPURecover Error shortly after.

I don't really want to crap out my system but I am very curious about the capabilities of this card. Should you raise both the core and the memory together to some extent, or would you recommend taking one up and then the other? Or does it not really matter?

DTG

milo
Apr 7, 2006, 11:07 AM
Just to make sure you guys are aware, this voids your AppleCare.

If it's done via software, would Apple be able to tell if you did this?

Lord Blackadder
Apr 7, 2006, 11:16 AM
If it's done via software, would Apple be able to tell if you did this?

Yes. The speed settings are saved in the ROM. If you fry the card and take it in for repair a technician could read the ROM, find your overclock setting in there and tell you to get lost.

Of course, you could always change it back to stock numbers before taking it in for repair, assuming the computer is still usable. But OC'ing to failure DOES void your Applecare, and Apple MAY be able to tell, or at least be suspicious enough to give you a hard time.

clykins90
Apr 7, 2006, 11:21 AM
i have a mbp 2.0. in windows XP i installed ATI tools, and then tried to run it, gives me an error saying cannot find bios. which i understand, i just want to know how you all got it to work. thanks very much
andreas


Make sure you have the new beta version, theres a link to it in this thread.

Odd. I only could get my iMac 17" to 434/517. If i raise the clock any higher my display goes ballistic. I'll try and push the memory a little bit more and post my impressions of AOE3 before and after.

BakedBeans
Apr 7, 2006, 11:28 AM
is this windows only?

DougTheImpaler
Apr 7, 2006, 11:52 AM
I wouldn't be surprised. Apple's AIO graphcis solutions have always been underclocked...the same is true of the Radeon 9200 in the Mini and 2004 eMac, as well as the Radeon 9600-based iMac G5's.

harveypooka
Apr 7, 2006, 12:10 PM
I had a quick hunt on Google to find the standard core speed for this card (could only find the X1600 XT and Pro, not the one in my iMac 20") but they run at 500mhz or so. If the card runs at around that or 450mhz and the card in the iMac is clocked to run at 300mhz, surely we can safely clock it to 450mhz if it's the same. I want to, but am scared....

Diatribe
Apr 7, 2006, 12:16 PM
I had a quick hunt on Google to find the standard core speed for this card (could only find the X1600 XT and Pro, not the one in my iMac 20") but they run at 500mhz or so. If the card runs at around that or 450mhz and the card in the iMac is clocked to run at 300mhz, surely we can safely clock it to 450mhz if it's the same. I want to, but am scared....

The question is does it make that big of a difference? On paper yes but I mean in reality.

harveypooka
Apr 7, 2006, 12:39 PM
The guy that started this thread claimed that it does...a 17fps increase from 30 to 47fps. Quite impressive. Just over 50%.

Lord Blackadder
Apr 7, 2006, 01:17 PM
I had a quick hunt on Google to find the standard core speed for this card (could only find the X1600 XT and Pro, not the one in my iMac 20") but they run at 500mhz or so. If the card runs at around that or 450mhz and the card in the iMac is clocked to run at 300mhz, surely we can safely clock it to 450mhz if it's the same. I want to, but am scared....

The X1600 in the iMac is a Mobility core, so I don't think that it should be clocked as high as the desktop X1600s. If the desktop chips run at 500MHz, expect the Mobility version to be downclocked significantly, and also don't expect it to be as overclockable as the desktop chips.

glorfindeal
Apr 7, 2006, 01:22 PM
Yes. The speed settings are saved in the ROM. If you fry the card and take it in for repair a technician could read the ROM, find your overclock setting in there and tell you to get lost.

Of course, you could always change it back to stock numbers before taking it in for repair, assuming the computer is still usable. But OC'ing to failure DOES void your Applecare, and Apple MAY be able to tell, or at least be suspicious enough to give you a hard time.

The speed settings are not save in rom. The ATItool must be relaunched if you shut down windows to reestablish the clock speeds.

Glor

eva01
Apr 7, 2006, 01:23 PM
thanks to this thread i clocked my 9650 up 30%

glorfindeal
Apr 7, 2006, 01:24 PM
is this windows only?

The ATITool is windows only. There is ATIccelerate but the authour hasn't been able to get it to work on the intel macs yet.

Glor

MacRumorUser
Apr 7, 2006, 01:26 PM
I clocked mine at 500/540 imac 20" X1600 256mb

HalfLife 2 Lost Coast Stress Test

54 Average FPS at 1680x1080 Everything on High, with HDR on Bloom Only. No AA

Without it being clocked same settings..

34 Average FPS..............

That's a considerable difference... :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

Vlade
Apr 7, 2006, 02:51 PM
Yes. The speed settings are saved in the ROM. If you fry the card and take it in for repair a technician could read the ROM, find your overclock setting in there and tell you to get lost.

Of course, you could always change it back to stock numbers before taking it in for repair, assuming the computer is still usable. But OC'ing to failure DOES void your Applecare, and Apple MAY be able to tell, or at least be suspicious enough to give you a hard time.

No, where does it say it writes anything to ROM, because it doesn't, only if you flash the card..... This guy is correct -

The speed settings are not save in rom. The ATItool must be relaunched if you shut down windows to reestablish the clock speeds.

Glor


Thats the way it always is with PC Video cards, and because everything is software and there is no writing to the ROM there is no 100% proof that a card was OCed

eva01
Apr 7, 2006, 02:54 PM
I clocked mine at 500/540 imac 20" X1600 256mb

HalfLife 2 Lost Coast Stress Test

54 Average FPS at 1680x1080 Everything on High, with HDR on Bloom Only. No AA

Without it being clocked same settings..

34 Average FPS..............

Yeah i was happy, i have games autodetect for graphics and now everything auto goes to highest and it works perfectly ^_____^ i am happy brings new life to a card i was going to replace, now to find a raptor HD

Lord Blackadder
Apr 7, 2006, 03:12 PM
Touche. I was thinking of a flash, since that's what I'm most familiar with.

The ROM does contain the speed settings - the overclocking software merely overrides them.

So in short, yes, OC'ing your GPU does void Applecare, but Apple probably won't be able to prove anything if you need a logic boar replaced.

I'm not trying to spoil the fun, just trying to inject some caution. Just because Apple can't prove you OC'd you card to death doesn't mean it will be fun getting your logic board replaced if it goes down.

Hotwng
Apr 7, 2006, 04:55 PM
A user under the name Alexander here on the Mac Rumors forums (Windows on Mac section) realized that his low-end 17inch iMac's videocard was running at 313 Mhz core, 300 Mhz memory. He checked and found that it SHOULD be running at 470Mhz for the X1600 mobility according to official ATi's specs. So what did he do? He overclocked it by 50%, resulting in a 50% increase in framerates. He got it to run at 440Mhz core and 576Mhz memory while it being still stable.

He compared Guild Wars before and after.

Before overclocking: 30 fps
After overclocking: 47 fps


Another user under the name MacRumorUser also tried overclocking, this time with the 20 inch iMac. This is his results:

Overclocked to 500/540 iMac 20" X1600 256MB, using the Halflife 2 Lost Coast Stress Test as the benchmark. Default is 400/400.

Before overclocking, 1680x1080 settings maxed with HDR on Bloom Only. No AA. 34 fps

AFTER overclocking to 500/540, 54 fps.

To overclock, download this program (its WINDOWS ONLY). ATi Tool 0.25 Beta 14 (http://www.techpowerup.com/downloads/259). Lets see some results! Start low and work your way up, if you start to see artifacts (weird things on your screen) lower the clock speed. Remember, these cards are underclocked so you should be able to overclock, increasing performance in games. Your results may vary.

Link to thread (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=192064)

[Moderator note: thread merged]

OutThere
Apr 7, 2006, 05:56 PM
I'm gonna assume that they have a reason for underclocking the cards, and when people start melting their iMacs, they can cry. :rolleyes:

Laslo Panaflex
Apr 7, 2006, 09:38 PM
iMac 1.83 core Duo, 512mb, X1600 128mb

I clocked the card with ATI tool to 450/450 (the mem and core auto detect crashes).

I ran 3d Mark '03

Standard clocking score: 5006
Overclocking score: 7056

That's a 30% increase in performance, and it could be clocked higher, I was just being safe.

Meemoo
Apr 7, 2006, 09:59 PM
I am setting my iMac to 500/540 will RAM matter as far as heat goes?

Is there a temp monitor avaliable for windows? the ATI tool for mac crashes control pannel.

biohazard6969
Apr 8, 2006, 10:12 AM
Is there a temp monitor avaliable for windows? the ATI tool for mac crashes control pannel.

same thing happens with me, i'm guessing its either not universal or doesn't support the X1600, there is no mention of an intel chipset on the site so i don't know

glorfindeal
Apr 8, 2006, 02:33 PM
same thing happens with me, i'm guessing its either not universal or doesn't support the X1600, there is no mention of an intel chipset on the site so i don't know

I've talked to the developer, it ATIccelerate doesn't support the CD macs at all. He is working on a fix but no luck so far.


Glor

mulletman13
Apr 8, 2006, 06:50 PM
Woohoo... large performance increase here :)

harveypooka
Apr 8, 2006, 07:20 PM
When I run this app it crashes - just locks up. Weird.

biohazard6969
Apr 8, 2006, 08:03 PM
When I run this app it crashes - just locks up. Weird.

read 3 posts above

Os Xp
Apr 8, 2006, 09:56 PM
My Problem -
I do the auto-detect-highest thingy and it proceeds well... when I reached about 517 on the core, my screen went black and I couldn't recover it without restarting the whole computer. Any Ideas? (Macbook Pro 2.0 ghz)

eXan
Apr 8, 2006, 11:32 PM
Hey guys!

Reading through this thread, I wanted to publish my results of overclocking my mobility Radeon 9600 128 MB in my iMac rev. B.

The default clock is 324 MHz Core and 202.5 MHz Memory. (low, eh? :rolleyes: )

I increased the clocks by 10 percent each time, gone up to 40 %.

Games, in which I measured the performance are Doom 3 and Unreal Tournament 2004. In Doom I used timedemo cache cammand, 1024x640, High, no shadows, no AA/AF, no VSYNC, everything else ON. In UT I used BridgeOfFate botmatch @ 1440x900 Max settings. BTW it was under 3355 patch.

1) Doom 3

+0 % overclock - 24.2 FPS
+30 % - 30.1 FPS
+40 % - 31.3 FPS

2) UT2004

+0% - 34.7 FPS
+10% - 37.7 FPS
+20% - 39.8 FPS
+30% - 41.4 FPS
+40% - 42.4 FPS.

Note that I increased both core and VRAM speeds simultaneously.

One more test in UT2004 same settings as above, core at the default speed, while memory at 50 % - 37.1 FPS. After running this test and quitting back to OSX artifacts started to show up. Never experimented with overclocking again. Back to default state. :) Might try later when UT2007 is released

Philberttheduck
Apr 9, 2006, 02:39 AM
this is annoying. i have the 256 and i can't even touch 450/500. am i doing anything wrong? i set the 450 on core, then slowly increase the memory to 500. then i click SET CLOCK. then the screen blacks out. something wrong? i thought the better the card, the better chances of overclocking.

eXan
Apr 9, 2006, 03:04 AM
i thought the better the card, the better chances of overclocking.

No, this depends on how much Apple underclocked the cards and something else, maybe cooling. For example Radeon mobility 9600 can be heavily overclocked, while on 9800 you can barely add a few percent and it starts artifacting.

Whiteapple
Apr 9, 2006, 04:09 AM
It only voids your Applecare if you can't clock it back down! (ie: some idiot with no experience waaaay overclocks it and burns the damn thing up. HINT - if you are getting freezes when playing games, down clock it!)

yes, as long as you bring the clock back down and they dont notice it, then you're clear.
example: on my pc tower, i had set the clocks of my GeForce FX5700 Ultra to about 500-900 cant remember. Then the card blew up, giving me awful display and stuff. Managed to turn it down to normal, still bad display, but then I pickup my phone, call "Point of View" (very good manufacturer btw, 3 years waranty) and now I got a new one for free.

So, shouldnt affect Apple Care for sure if you are a reasonable clock gamer.

MacRumorUser
Apr 9, 2006, 05:16 AM
this is annoying. i have the 256 and i can't even touch 450/500. am i doing anything wrong? i set the 450 on core, then slowly increase the memory to 500. then i click SET CLOCK. then the screen blacks out. something wrong? i thought the better the card, the better chances of overclocking.


Ok I'm confused. What system do you have. Your machine in sig says G5 ???

Please let us know what system you have

Philberttheduck
Apr 9, 2006, 07:14 AM
my fault.. messed up on the sig. its the 20inch intel. (fixed the sig btw). i actually got it back to 450/500. but playing wc3 tft, the ati-tools message box came up. any suggestions? i do something wrong.

glorfindeal
Apr 9, 2006, 09:46 AM
my fault.. messed up on the sig. its the 20inch intel. (fixed the sig btw). i actually got it back to 450/500. but playing wc3 tft, the ati-tools message box came up. any suggestions? i do something wrong.


Sorry, but not all chips are equal. You probably got one that can't be clocked up as much.


Glor

MacRumorUser
Apr 9, 2006, 09:57 AM
Yeah that sucks. Maybe there was a reason Apple underclocked them, to make the peformace standard.

After all they are using a dodgy 1.67 duo core with 1 disabled/broken core clocked at a slower 1.5 in the mac mini. So it's not unfeasable for them to use slightly dubios x1600 that havent passed the desktop clock speeds and clock them lower..... :rolleyes:

Temujin
Apr 9, 2006, 06:40 PM
Yes. The speed settings are saved in the ROM. If you fry the card and take it in for repair a technician could read the ROM, find your overclock setting in there and tell you to get lost.

ROM = Read Only Memory

So for this to happen the ROM would be flashed at each OC? Doesnt sound plausible to me.

MacRumorUser
Apr 10, 2006, 04:46 AM
my fault.. messed up on the sig. its the 20inch intel. (fixed the sig btw). i actually got it back to 450/500. but playing wc3 tft, the ati-tools message box came up. any suggestions? i do something wrong.

Ok I got rid of XP, then got a copy of Oblivion, so I put it back in again :rolleyes:

Anyway after putting it back in I downloaded ATI Tool again and went back to try and clock it to 500/540 what I had it at before, and it didn't want to know. Kept crapping out on me?

So I tried 450/500 and same thing.

So i wouldnt worry about it too much, seems that the drivers maybe responsible and I'm not sure how accurate then ATI TOOL is reporting. So I have left it as it is...

Xylene
Apr 10, 2006, 02:38 PM
Yeah that sucks. Maybe there was a reason Apple underclocked them, to make the peformace standard.

After all they are using a dodgy 1.67 duo core with 1 disabled/broken core clocked at a slower 1.5 in the mac mini. So it's not unfeasable for them to use slightly dubios x1600 that havent passed the desktop clock speeds and clock them lower..... :rolleyes:

What are you talking about? The processor in the Mac Mini is not a "dodgy" or "defective" Core Dou processor with a disabled core. It's simply a single core version of the same architecture, thus the name, Core Solo.

topicolo
Apr 10, 2006, 03:02 PM
that's what chipmakers do. If they're making dual core chips on the same silicon, they disable the ones that have a defective or faulty core and sell them as single core chips. The same goes for defects that prevent a chip from attaining higher speeds or using more pipelines (in the case of graphics chips). It has been going on for years.

harveypooka
Apr 10, 2006, 04:02 PM
What are you talking about? The processor in the Mac Mini is not a "dodgy" or "defective" Core Dou processor with a disabled core. It's simply a single core version of the same architecture, thus the name, Core Solo.

I thought it was a defective core too...

BakedBeans
Apr 10, 2006, 04:33 PM
It seems like mine will just keep gpoing and going with no errors.

Is there some saftey level so that you dont fry your system?

the core goes up to 540+ without any errors.

MacRumorUser
Apr 10, 2006, 05:01 PM
What are you talking about? The processor in the Mac Mini is not a "dodgy" or "defective" Core Dou processor with a disabled core. It's simply a single core version of the same architecture, thus the name, Core Solo.

Exactly as other posters have said.

Also Intel DO NOT MAKE A 1.5 SOLO CHIP, this is a technically FAULTY duo that did not past the tests and so they disable one of the cores and clock it slower........ So there :p :p :p :p :p

It's a common practice surprisingly. So for them to do it to a GFX card is NOT surprising in the slightest...

Backtothemac
Apr 10, 2006, 05:06 PM
Exactly as other posters have said.

Also Intel DO NOT MAKE A 1.5 SOLO CHIP, this is a technically FAULTY duo that did not past the tests and so they disable one of the cores and clock it slower........ So there :p :p :p :p :p

It's a common practice surprisingly. So for them to do it to a GFX card is NOT surprising in the slightest...

Personally, I think that they reduced the core for temp and battery life. In XP with the core clocked to 450/450 I only get about 1 hour and 45 minutes. With the core standard, I get over 2 hours and thirty minutes.

Still, if we stay tethered and do not go crazy with the clock speeds, then we will have the ability to bring it up to where it should be :)

MacRumorUser
Apr 10, 2006, 05:08 PM
Personally, I think that they reduced the core for temp and battery life. In XP with the core clocked to 450/450 I only get about 1 hour and 45 minutes. With the core standard, I get over 2 hours and thirty minutes.

Still, if we stay tethered and do not go crazy with the clock speeds, then we will have the ability to bring it up to where it should be :)

Possibly, but why reduce them for the imac though?

displaced
Apr 10, 2006, 05:14 PM
What are you talking about? The processor in the Mac Mini is not a "dodgy" or "defective" Core Dou processor with a disabled core. It's simply a single core version of the same architecture, thus the name, Core Solo.

Well, in all honesty, a 'broken' Duo may be exactly what the Solo is :)

This is pretty much "standard operating procedure" in the semiconductor industry. You get your plants to churn out as many wafers as possible and try to hit the cost/yield sweet-spot. You then test the cores you've produced, and grade & sell appropriately.

There's no difference in design between the 2.13, the 2.0 or the 1.6 GHz Core processors. It just so happened that the silicon in the faster processors just happened to fall in a neater way, and thus can withstand higher clock speeds with proper stability.

Likewise, the Core Solo's are quite possibly those dies which had a defect in one of the units. Just rewire the FPGA (or whatever package they're using) and sell as a Solo.

During the 'ramp-up' of a new processor, a fair amount of work goes into measuring the yields of the factory -- how many cores from each wafer are likely to function at a particular speed, or with a certain feature-set operational.

CPU makers do this to make the best out of what is an inexact science. A 100% yield for a complex modern CPU is the stuff of fantasy. But instead of simply throwing out the imperfect, they're made into functional units and sold as another product line. If I remember rightly, AMD Semprons were originally those Athlon 64's whose 64bit extensions were faulty, but sold as a budget line without 64-bit capability. Gradually, as the manufacturing process (aka. the 'stepping' of the processor) was refined, Semprons became 64-bit too, and the distinguishing difference between the Sempron and the Althlon 64 was how much of the Level 2 cache was operational.

The same goes for the GPU industry. Often, GPUs with faulty pipelines are re-badged with a lower model number, have the faulty parts disabled via the ROM, and sold as a cheaper product line.

Pretty neat, really. There's absolutely no reason to view this selection process as a cut-corner or as 'cheaping out'.

weldon
Apr 10, 2006, 05:18 PM
The one difference today is that Intel has worked out ways to permanently disable features on the chip. In the early days, you could "fix" chips to enable features.

Backtothemac
Apr 10, 2006, 05:20 PM
Possibly, but why reduce them for the imac though?

Well, I would again say heat. The iMac is just a glorified laptop that happens to sit on a desk. No like a BTX tower from Dell wehre there is massive amounts of cooling etc.

I personally don't think we will hurt the cards, At least I hope.

Oh, and you are right the core solo is a broken core duo, just like a celeron is a broken PIV

displaced
Apr 10, 2006, 05:25 PM
The one difference today is that Intel has worked out ways to permanently disable features on the chip. In the early days, you could "fix" chips to enable features.

*grin*

I've got a Radeon 9800 Pro in my PC that started life as a non-Pro... then with a little testing and a re-flash of the board's firmware, it became a Pro with all 16 pipelines enabled. And then, it worked out that it ran perfectly stable at Radeon 9800 XT speeds. So I saved myself a fair amount of there :)

Incidentally, it's the yield which largely decides the relative prices of processors. The slowest Core Solo costs Intel exactly the same amount of money to make as the fastest Core Duo. But a wafer of 40 or so processors is likely to have many more 'imperfect' lower-spec cores than 'pure and perfect' highly-capable cores. So it's an issue of scarcity. Rarer fast cores cost more than more common slow ones.

apunkrockmonk
Apr 12, 2006, 07:47 AM
*grin*

I've got a Radeon 9800 Pro in my PC that started life as a non-Pro... then with a little testing and a re-flash of the board's firmware, it became a Pro with all 16 pipelines enabled. And then, it worked out that it ran perfectly stable at Radeon 9800 XT speeds. So I saved myself a fair amount of there :)

Incidentally, it's the yield which largely decides the relative prices of processors. The slowest Core Solo costs Intel exactly the same amount of money to make as the fastest Core Duo. But a wafer of 40 or so processors is likely to have many more 'imperfect' lower-spec cores than 'pure and perfect' highly-capable cores. So it's an issue of scarcity. Rarer fast cores cost more than more common slow ones.

The 9800 pro has 8 pipes. I did a similar thing with my pro, only I upgraded it to an xt.

captainbrendo
Apr 12, 2006, 03:48 PM
Who out there has overclocked on their MBP's and what are your 3dmarks?

OC'd my 2.0 Ghz to 410/420 and everything works ok,

3dmark2006 2000ish
3dmark2005 3800ish

FEAR and Quake 4 run well, but Quake 4 runs much better

Every once in awhile when I exit a game my computer freezes. I think that this is less an overheating issue and more a ATItool issue.

Lord Blackadder
Apr 12, 2006, 03:56 PM
It's possible that the downclock was to make sure there were no "Rev. A" type problems with the GPU running too hot. Remember, Apple can always release a firmware update that will goose the speeds a little in the future.

It will be interesting to see if later versions of the MacBook Pro run higher clocks.

mikehowett
Apr 15, 2006, 12:17 PM
I managed to overclock my iMac to 522/576 (would go higher but wanted to be safe) 3DMark06 score was 2240:D Performance in GTA: SA has also increased and is alot smoother!:)

Macmaniac
Apr 15, 2006, 12:53 PM
Hey guys any idea if this would work on a G4 powerbook? I have a 1.67ghz G4 PB with a Radeon 9700 in it, is it possible to overclock it, and will it be safe, since this thing runs hot any way. Also where can I get the tool since of course this can't run windows:(

captainbrendo
Apr 15, 2006, 01:01 PM
atitool won't work, as far as I know, with PPC computers. Besides, everyone here is using atitool in Windows! There is an overclocking utility for PPCs though, I don't recall the name though.

EvilDoc
Apr 15, 2006, 01:46 PM
Some one once told me that if i can't afford to by a new computer then you shouldnt be overclocking... i did end up trying it but the performace boost was not worth the risk.

just a thought

MacRumorUser
Apr 15, 2006, 02:37 PM
atitool won't work, as far as I know, with PPC computers. Besides, everyone here is using atitool in Windows! There is an overclocking utility for PPCs though, I don't recall the name though.

ati accelerator i think, but it doesnt work with the x1600

Os Xp
Apr 16, 2006, 06:57 PM
Well, I unistalled this because of heat problems and such, but I reinstalled it and now all of my settings (core, mem) set at 0.0. Everytime I try to overclock my screen flips out and it stays like that until I force reboot it. Any suggestions?

Eidorian
Apr 16, 2006, 07:02 PM
Hey guys any idea if this would work on a G4 powerbook? I have a 1.67ghz G4 PB with a Radeon 9700 in it, is it possible to overclock it, and will it be safe, since this thing runs hot any way. Also where can I get the tool since of course this can't run windows:(http://mapage.noos.fr/campahunta/index.html

Your milage may vary.

biohazard6969
Apr 16, 2006, 07:03 PM
i have a question, even though i don't own a macbook pro, would over or underclocking using atitool affect battery life at all? isn't overclocking giving the card more power? could you save battery life by underclocking?

captainbrendo
Apr 16, 2006, 07:27 PM
you are most correct mr biohazard!! OCing does kill battery life.

MacRumorUser
Apr 16, 2006, 07:52 PM
Well, I unistalled this because of heat problems and such, but I reinstalled it and now all of my settings (core, mem) set at 0.0. Everytime I try to overclock my screen flips out and it stays like that until I force reboot it. Any suggestions?

Yeah I noticed this too. However I uninstalled mac drivers and re-installed them and I could clock again. Hence I think the drivers are what's causing it... I decided not to bother in the end, I want my mac to stay alive :p :p :p

generik
Apr 17, 2006, 12:28 AM
Just brilliant, so Apple overcharges you for hardware that only appears on their marketing papers but generate absolutely zero improvement in performance as they have to underclock it due to aesthetics.

MacRumorUser
Apr 17, 2006, 05:03 AM
Just brilliant, so Apple overcharges you for hardware that only appears on their marketing papers but generate absolutely zero improvement in performance as they have to underclock it due to aesthetics.

Well they've been artificially limiting hardware for ages (look at dual monitors on imac g4, ibook etc...) for a long time so we shouldnt be surprised. It's apple :D :D :D

displaced
Apr 17, 2006, 06:49 AM
Well they've been artificially limiting hardware for ages (look at dual monitors on imac g4, ibook etc...) for a long time so we shouldnt be surprised. It's apple :D :D :D

Underclocking mobile GPU's is apparently commonplace amongst other manufacturers also. Dell certainly do this.

BlizzardBomb
Apr 17, 2006, 07:54 AM
Just brilliant, so Apple overcharges you for hardware that only appears on their marketing papers but generate absolutely zero improvement in performance as they have to underclock it due to aesthetics.

Actually it probably is a large improvement still as it has 12 pixel and 5 vertex processors compared to the X600 XTs 4 and 2.

biohazard6969
Apr 17, 2006, 01:22 PM
is there something like aticellerator that would work with an nvidia card on a powerpc mac?

BlizzardBomb
Apr 17, 2006, 01:50 PM
is there something like aticellerator that would work with an nvidia card on a powerpc mac?

Try this out, follow the link and click the graphiccellator button on the right.

http://thomas.perrier.name/software/ATIcceleratorII.html

superted666
Apr 19, 2006, 10:18 AM
I have the last of the power pc macs (RIP)
With the ATI Radeon X600 xt

What do i have to do, is it worth it on my mac?

EDIT: ok i have got the ATI app
It shows 499/351 which i presume is current speed, it worth going up?

Lord Blackadder
Apr 19, 2006, 11:14 AM
This discovery has made news (http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=1848)over at Anandtech...must be an Anandtech member lurking here. :)

The reduction in battery life is a bummer - which is why they underclocked it in the first place, probably.

harveypooka
Apr 19, 2006, 04:17 PM
So we have the default clock speeds for the X1600's, we can therefore ramp up the cards in the iMac without any performance issues? Obviously the life will decrease but it won't unexpectedly cut out...or shouldn't.

AP_piano295
Apr 20, 2006, 12:23 AM
Here's the link:

http://www.techpowerup.com/downloads/259

Just download, install, then hit the Find Max Core/Find Max Mem buttons, and give it a while.

Keep in mind that BF2 is a real RAM hog, I wouldn't try playing it with less than 1GB, and 2GB is better.

ive found bf2 is a major grphx card hog and the ram has little to no effect on the game except for loading times.

rayray1017
Apr 21, 2006, 12:41 PM
bf2 is a HUGE ram hog and it can load up a graphics card quite easily. I have a a 2.0 duo w/1.5gig ram and 128 graphics card. I run bf2 on the highest resolution setting, with all the quality settings on highest and no antialiasing. With it overclocked to 475core and 510 memory i get a range of about 30-50 frames per second using a program called fraps. the game looks superb, but i definately need a new mouse because the mightymouse doesnt work well for me and gaming.

bugfaceuk
Apr 25, 2006, 01:14 AM
Yes. The speed settings are saved in the ROM. If you fry the card and take it in for repair a technician could read the ROM, find your overclock setting in there and tell you to get lost.

Of course, you could always change it back to stock numbers before taking it in for repair, assuming the computer is still usable. But OC'ing to failure DOES void your Applecare, and Apple MAY be able to tell, or at least be suspicious enough to give you a hard time.

Gads, the speed settings may very well be saved in a way that means Apple can see what was done, but this thread is littered with rubbish.

Speed settings saved to Read Only Memory (ROM)??

*sigh*

Felldownthewell
Apr 30, 2006, 03:12 PM
I just installed boot camp last night and while I was DLing HL2 from steam (I bought the game online so I don't have a CD, I can just DL from steam) I installed ATI tray tools, which told me that I was running at 300/297. So I ran ATItools and upped it back to 400/400, then launched HL2.

With everything on high and the highest widescreen resolution everything was smooth. When I say last night I actually mean early this morning, and I was tired, so I didn't have time for a full test. However, that last thing I did was quickly switch back over to OS X and take a loot at istat nano, which only shows the HDD temp, which was running bit hot at 47C. (CoD mac version usually runs at 45C) I may try OC'ing the card, but I'll probably just leave it at its regular speed (I.E the speed intended by ATI, not Apple of 400/400. It resets itself when I restart anyway, so OS X still runs relatively cool and with the same battery life as before)

Nar1117
Apr 30, 2006, 05:27 PM
I just installed boot camp last night and while I was DLing HL2 from steam (I bought the game online so I don't have a CD, I can just DL from steam) I installed ATI tray tools, which told me that I was running at 300/297. So I ran ATItools and upped it back to 400/400, then launched HL2.

With everything on high and the highest widescreen resolution everything was smooth. When I say last night I actually mean early this morning, and I was tired, so I didn't have time for a full test. However, that last thing I did was quickly switch back over to OS X and take a loot at istat nano, which only shows the HDD temp, which was running bit hot at 47C. (CoD mac version usually runs at 45C) I may try OC'ing the card, but I'll probably just leave it at its regular speed (I.E the speed intended by ATI, not Apple of 400/400. It resets itself when I restart anyway, so OS X still runs relatively cool and with the same battery life as before)

You wouldnt happen to be able to run BF2 on your macbook would you? If you can, i am greatly interested in what sort of results you get in terms of performance.

Felldownthewell
Apr 30, 2006, 06:50 PM
You wouldnt happen to be able to run BF2 on your macbook would you? If you can, i am greatly interested in what sort of results you get in terms of performance.

I have BF2, but since I only partitioned 10GB, and I already have AoE 3, HL2 and CS:S, I can't fit it on the drive. When I get bored of AoE 3 Ill load up BF2 and let you know, but it may not be until next weekend. However, I'll post the results (FPS and my impressions) when I put it on.

starstreak
Apr 30, 2006, 10:17 PM
I dont think I would even want to oc the unit. You can fry an egg on mine. I dont know why the fan doesnt kick on sooner in this laptop. But shoots it gets super hot by the screen, under the notebook and very warm on the left side.

Nar1117
May 1, 2006, 10:55 AM
I have BF2, but since I only partitioned 10GB, and I already have AoE 3, HL2 and CS:S, I can't fit it on the drive. When I get bored of AoE 3 Ill load up BF2 and let you know, but it may not be until next weekend. However, I'll post the results (FPS and my impressions) when I put it on.


Thanks.

PatrickF
May 2, 2006, 03:07 AM
Thanks.
I can't quote you any FPS figures but I can say that BF2 runs pretty well at medium settings without the card being overclocked.

Nar1117
May 2, 2006, 07:23 PM
I can't quote you any FPS figures but I can say that BF2 runs pretty well at medium settings without the card being overclocked.


Can you define 'pretty well' without using a FPS measure?

Aurred
Sep 5, 2006, 03:55 PM
Possibly, but why reduce them for the imac though?

This may very well be due to a decrease in manufacturing costs associated. By using the x1600 card that is underclocked for it's power saving function. Since from a manufacturing standpoint there is no need to have two seperate versions of the card, the same card goes in to both and thus no reflashing needs to occur. I'm positive they get a better deal by purchasing and using the cards as such.

Fan silence may be another contributer to why it's never reflashed but it's most likely more of an arbitrary one. I doubt the imac was designed around the x1600 but actually around the mac book.

I'd like to see the gpu/vram clock speeds of the 256mb counterpart.

I'm guessing (though not nessisarly) the 256mb version has a slighly higher clock.