Worth buying G4 refurb at this stage?

[londonweb]

I'm sure this has been discussed elsewhere so if there's already a thread please feel free to point me to it.

I'm shortly going to be getting a Mac Mini, and thinking that I'll get a G4, refurb or otherwise (several places here are still selling the G4s new). I think the Intel Minis are a bit of a joke quite honestly- the basic one isn't even a duo, has a bit of a paltry hard disk, and costs £450, which is more than the 1.42ghz G4 (with 80gb disk) cost before. The duo model costs £600 and if I'm going to have to pay that much, plus keyboard and mouse, then I'm going to just buy an iMac or a used G5....

I'm wondering though, if I buy PowerPC now, are we going to start seeing software gradually changing from PowerPC/Universal to Intel-only, so that in future we'll have to run an emulator to run older software? If so, how far away is the transition going to be?

If this is the (speculated) case, I'll reluctantly buy Intel...

[Demon Hunter]

I just bought a 12-inch PowerBook... the transition is going to take a long time. As it is, the Intels are showing only modest improvement in everyday tasks. Take for example the duplication of a 500MB file. The 1.83GHz MBP is only 7 seconds faster than a 1.42GHz iBook.

And forget about non-Universal apps, for heavy usage. The 2.0GHz MBP takes nearly a minute longer compared to the same iBook in a Photoshop task. Ouch.

I say, go with the refurb. It's already depreciated, so you'll lose less of your money when you upgrade.

[peanut48]

I just bought a 12-inch PowerBook...
I say, go with the refurb. It's already depreciated, so you'll lose less of your money when you upgrade.


Well did u get a refurb one? if yes was it from the apple store?
I'm seriously considering a powerbook 12" but am not able decide whether i should go in for a refurb one.....

[MIDI_EVIL]

Well did u get a refurb one? if yes was it from the apple store?
I'm seriously considering a powerbook 12" but am not able decide whether i should go in for a refurb one.....

Refurbished PowerBooks are a lot cheaper, and would have had their problems sorted out already.

Since the Intel switch i would definately get a G4 for the cheapest you can.

Or wait until the next iBook/MacBook which might have a Core Duo and still be less than a refurbished PowerBook G4 ?

Rich.

[peanut48]

Refurbished PowerBooks are a lot cheaper, and would have had their problems sorted out already.

Since the Intel switch i would definately get a G4 for the cheapest you can.

Or wait until the next iBook/MacBook which might have a Core Duo and still be less than a refurbished PowerBook G4 ?

Rich.

well am a bit concerned abt the RAM with refurbs..i could upgrade a new one from apple directly but refurbs dont hv that option as far as i know unless i do it myself.....DIY is not an option from where I come...So i'm still undecided...also do refurbs come wit ilife'06 now?

[Eidorian]

well am a bit concerned abt the RAM with refurbs..i could upgrade a new one from apple directly but refurbs dont hv that option as far as i know unless i do it myself.....DIY is not an option from where I come...So i'm still undecided...also do refurbs come wit ilife'06 now?The refurbs come with the latest version of iLife and OS X. They might even include full version drop in discs too. I'd upgrade the RAM yourself. It's easy.

[peanut48]

The refurbs come with the latest version of iLife and OS X. They might even include full version drop in discs too. I'd upgrade the RAM yourself. It's easy.

Thanx a lot...u cleared 75% of my doubts whether to get a refurb...i guess it doesnt make sense buyin a new 12" pb now..can use the extra cash to upgrade ram later i guess if i feel the need to do so...can anyone tell me if Ram upgrades can be done in Melbourne,Australia also will upgrading ram myself affect applecare in anyway?
with the refurb should i buy applecare?
am trying to save as much as i can...

[Eidorian]

Thanx a lot...u cleared 75% of my doubts whether to get a refurb...i guess it doesnt make sense buyin a new 12" pb now..can use the extra cash to upgrade ram later i guess if i feel the need to do so...can anyone tell me if Ram upgrades can be done in Melbourne,Australia also will upgrading ram myself affect applecare in anyway?
with the refurb should i buy applecare?
am trying to save as much as i can...You have the full 1-year warranty like a new machine and can purchase AppleCare within that first year like any other new Apple computer. RAM is Do-it-Yourself so it won't void your Applecare unless you don't install it properly.

[peanut48]

You have the full 1-year warranty like a new machine and can purchase AppleCare within that first year like any other new Apple computer. RAM is Do-it-Yourself so it won't void your Applecare unless you don't install it properly.

ok thanx...i guess i'll ask a friend to help me in upgrading later...will cross tht bridge when i come to it..thanx for ur help

[MIDI_EVIL]

ok thanx...i guess i'll ask a friend to help me in upgrading later...will cross tht bridge when i come to it..thanx for ur help

RAM is probably the easiest upgrade, it's a matter of unscrewing a door and clipping it in. It is that easy!

I would imagine it is easily available somewhere like Australia! I would put money on that!

The refurb will come with all the documentation that a brand new one comes with.

If i were to buy a computer now from Apple, i would go refurb. Whatever is gonna go wrong with the computer, has already gone wrong, and been fixed.

Good luck with whatever you choose!

Rich.

[peanut48]

RAM is probably the easiest upgrade, it's a matter of unscrewing a door and clipping it in. It is that easy!
Good luck with whatever you choose!

Rich.


Thanx a lot for all your help...will for sure go in for a refurb now....so u'll hear from me abt my first mac soon.. :)

[xy14]

Just make sure you're aware that you should only get the g4 powerbook if you're gonna use it for less than like 2-3 years, because after that, we'll start seeing intel-only apps.

[milo]

I'm sure this has been discussed elsewhere so if there's already a thread please feel free to point me to it.

I'm shortly going to be getting a Mac Mini, and thinking that I'll get a G4, refurb or otherwise (several places here are still selling the G4s new). I think the Intel Minis are a bit of a joke quite honestly- the basic one isn't even a duo, has a bit of a paltry hard disk, and costs £450, which is more than the 1.42ghz G4 (with 80gb disk) cost before. The duo model costs £600 and if I'm going to have to pay that much, plus keyboard and mouse, then I'm going to just buy an iMac or a used G5....

I'm wondering though, if I buy PowerPC now, are we going to start seeing software gradually changing from PowerPC/Universal to Intel-only, so that in future we'll have to run an emulator to run older software? If so, how far away is the transition going to be?

If this is the (speculated) case, I'll reluctantly buy Intel...

Having used the intel duo mini, I can say it blows the doors off the old G4 boxes. For the difference in price, the performance is orders of magnitude better.

Unless you absolutely can't afford anything more and don't care if all your apps run dog slow, I'd avoid any G4 machines like the plague.

[devilot]

I'm shortly going to be getting a Mac Mini... I think the Intel Minis are a bit of a joke quite honestly... The duo model costs £600 and if I'm going to have to pay that much, plus keyboard and mouse, then I'm going to just buy an iMac or a used G5...I snipped your post a bit.

I'd say go for an Intel iMac. I don't mind the G4 in my iBook, but I have an iMac G5 and I'm really not a power user so it's more than enough power for me, and I got both of these machines spring/summer of 2005.

If I were in the market to buy a machine now, I'd definitely get Intel just simply because that's the way Apple is moving.

[Demon Hunter]

Well did u get a refurb one? if yes was it from the apple store?
I'm seriously considering a powerbook 12" but am not able decide whether i should go in for a refurb one.....

I bought it new from Apple, since my education discount took $100 off. I wanted to know that I had the newest components, fresh from manufacturing, since I'll be using this for over a year. The last thing I want is a dim, first-gen screen and shoddy casing.

Unless you absolutely can't afford anything more and don't care if all your apps run dog slow, I'd avoid any G4 machines like the plague.

That's a gross exaggeration. There's a lot of deals on G4 and G5-based Macs right now, and the Intels are "not so good" with popular, non-native software. I doubt another 10 seconds in iTunes is worth £200. But it does remain an interim machine.

[londonweb]

Just make sure you're aware that you should only get the g4 powerbook if you're gonna use it for less than like 2-3 years, because after that, we'll start seeing intel-only apps.

Thanks for bringing the thread back on track. I'm hearing conflicting things now though...

Having used the intel duo mini, I can say it blows the doors off the old G4 boxes

Really? Bear in mind I want to use Photoshop, Illustrator, Flash etc. I often hear things like 'Safari opens reaaaaally quickly on my Intel Mac!', I personally don't have a problem waiting 4 seconds for Safari to open (on a G4), and I'm not going to buy a new computer just to see my applications open faster- what I want is decent application performance, and from what I've read, non-universal apps are slower on Intels under Rosetta...

2-3 years for Intel-only apps? In that case I think I'll go G4 for now. Thanks for all your thoughts.:)

[MIDI_EVIL]

Thanks for bringing the thread back on track. I'm hearing conflicting things now though...



Really? Bear in mind I want to use Photoshop, Illustrator, Flash etc. I often hear things like 'Safari opens reaaaaally quickly on my Intel Mac!', I personally don't have a problem waiting 4 seconds for Safari to open (on a G4), and I'm not going to buy a new computer just to see my applications open faster- what I want is decent application performance, and from what I've read, non-universal apps are slower on Intels under Rosetta...

2-3 years for Intel-only apps? In that case I think I'll go G4 for now. Thanks for all your thoughts.:)


No no no, it's going to be sooner than that before we see the programs you need on Intel. Probably just under a year ?

Rich.

[Demon Hunter]

Really? Bear in mind I want to use Photoshop, Illustrator, Flash etc.

Photoshop Suite test, Macworld (http://www.macworld.com/2006/02/reviews/mbpromain/index.php)...

MacBook Pro Core Duo 2GHz: 2 minutes, 41 seconds

14-inch iBook G4 1.42GHz: 1 minute, 49 seconds

One last hurrah for G4! ;)

[Eidorian]

Photoshop Suite test, Macworld (http://www.macworld.com/2006/02/reviews/mbpromain/index.php)...

MacBook Pro Core Duo 2GHz: 2 minutes, 41 seconds

14-inch iBook G4 1.42GHz: 1 minute, 49 seconds

One last hurrah for G4! ;)Well that is via Rosetta. Still, if you NEED a G4 machine right now since they're cheap you'll only lose a few minutes of your life vs. spending hundreds more for an Intel.

[londonweb]

No no no, it's going to be sooner than that before we see the programs you need on Intel. Probably just under a year ?

Rich.

I'm not really talking about how long it'll be for programs that run on Intel (such as Photoshop for Intel, which i'm sure isn't far away), more how long until programs are released that won't run on PowerPC, if you see what I mean...

[fiercetiger224]

Hmm, do you have Windows by any chance? :-P Looks like Boot Camp will be an alternative for Adobe applications until they release the native version of their Suite on OS X.

Can't wait until the new Mac desktops come out, it'll be gaming fiesta for Windows, and everything else for OS X! It's like a dream come true! A TRUE ALL IN ONE COMPUTER SOLUTION! :D

[milo]

That's a gross exaggeration. There's a lot of deals on G4 and G5-based Macs right now, and the Intels are "not so good" with popular, non-native software. I doubt another 10 seconds in iTunes is worth £200. But it does remain an interim machine.

If all you're running is iTunes, then the slowest, cheapest machine is a smart buy. And I guess if you're running all apps that won't be ported for a year, that's a plus for the G4. But if your apps are native, the intels make a HUGE speed difference. It's like night and day.

Really? Bear in mind I want to use Photoshop, Illustrator, Flash etc. I often hear things like 'Safari opens reaaaaally quickly on my Intel Mac!', I personally don't have a problem waiting 4 seconds for Safari to open (on a G4), and I'm not going to buy a new computer just to see my applications open faster- what I want is decent application performance, and from what I've read, non-universal apps are slower on Intels under Rosetta...

If you're running lots of apps under rosetta, you will take a performance hit. But on native apps, the benefits are real and very noticable. Things like the apple pro apps absolutely smoke, and I'm talking application performance, not just opening the app.

[londonweb]

Hmm, do you have Windows by any chance? :-P Looks like Boot Camp will be an alternative for Adobe applications until they release the native version of their Suite on OS X.

I keep a windows machine for web testing purposes mainly, and it would be great to lose it and just run windows on the mac, as well as OSX of course- I hate windows as a general rule.

I think I would go for the Intel box with all of the above in mind, but I need at least an 80gb hd, which means going for the £600 one which I find a bit steep- if I'm spending that sort of cash I'd rather buy an iMac, but then I've already got a nice display that I want to keep, so I suppose I could buy a used G5 instead for similar cash, but then we're back to PowerPC...talk about swings and roundabouts:confused:

[Demon Hunter]

Hmm, do you have Windows by any chance? :-P Looks like Boot Camp will be an alternative for Adobe applications until they release the native version of their Suite on OS X.

Can't wait until the new Mac desktops come out, it'll be gaming fiesta for Windows, and everything else for OS X! It's like a dream come true! A TRUE ALL IN ONE COMPUTER SOLUTION! :D

We're still slaves to Apple in terms of graphics cards though. :(

What if you had two GFX cards in the PowerMac -- one that Windows recognizes and the other for OS X?!

[milo]

I think I would go for the Intel box with all of the above in mind, but I need at least an 80gb hd, which means going for the £600 one which I find a bit steep- if I'm spending that sort of cash I'd rather buy an iMac, but then I've already got a nice display that I want to keep, so I suppose I could buy a used G5 instead for similar cash, but then we're back to PowerPC...talk about swings and roundabouts:confused:

Just get an external FW drive (regardless of which mac you end up getting). Tons of space for way cheaper than any of the drive upgrades in any of the macs.

[jamesi]

powerpc powermacs are over-priced and over-rated. just buy the cheapest intel mac mini and then go to newegg.com and buy a faster core duo chip. you can buy a dual core 2.16 and replace the crappy single core 1.5 and have it work perfectly. intel macs are alot like pcs as in you can upgrade them yourself. the performance of the G4 powermacs are shabby in comparison to that fast 2.16 core duo.

[Macrabbid]

powerpc powermacs are over-priced and over-rated. just buy the cheapest intel mac mini and then go to newegg.com and buy a faster core duo chip. you can buy a dual core 2.16 and replace the crappy single core 1.5 and have it work perfectly. intel macs are alot like pcs as in you can upgrade them yourself. the performance of the G4 powermacs are shabby in comparison to that fast 2.16 core duo.

Sounds a great idea. What am I actually looking for on a PC reseller's site like newegg.com? (I am entering a new area here where things are not so familiar) Appreciate your advice on this.:confused:

[fallenangel]

My Local shop is having an offer for the iBook 12" (brand new) which equates to about 12% off the price. That's even lower than what the student discount offers.

I have been waiting to purchase a Mac, hoping that they would release an Intel version of the iBook, or whether I should splurge for the MacBook Pro. Also been reading mixed reviews about whether to wait or buy. I understand that most software makers might move towards Intel-native coded programmes soon.

I would use my Mac for Photoshop, maybe dabble a bit with Garange Band Pro, and some Video editting. But more for Photoshop, Web Design and PHP programming.

Should I wait? Or Should I just splurge on the MAcBook Pro or settle for the iBook?

Well, I just read that MacBook might be coming soon. But someone did point out to me that a new Intel MacBook might not be all good. Some apps don't run native yet. Some advised me to get the iBook G4 first, max out the RAM, and wait maybe 2 yrs or so before changing. Hmm... I'm torn apart on a decision

[After G]

Be sure all your hardware works with Intel.

I have a Samsung printer that doesn't play nice with Intel.
Sure I can print from Windows, but it is better in OS X.

[THX1139]

Just make sure you're aware that you should only get the g4 powerbook if you're gonna use it for less than like 2-3 years, because after that, we'll start seeing intel-only apps.

Wrong!! Where'd you get that information? Man, I hate when people make blanket statements as fact without backing it up with valid reasons. Information like that is useless.

Anyhow, in my opinion it's hard to predict exactly, but PPC software will take longer than 2-3 years to phase out considering Apple is STILL selling Powermacs and will probably continue to sell them until the end of the year. Jobs said they would continue to support PPC for the years to come. My best GUESS based on the 68k to PPC transition (it took 4 years) is 4 to 5 years. Some 3rd party developers might stop sooner, but with millions of PPC computers in use, that's a big chunk of business to just throw away until the Intel machine reach saturation.

OK, I made a prediction too, but did you notice how I supported my assumptions with solid reasoning?

[THX1139]

Photoshop Suite test, Macworld (http://www.macworld.com/2006/02/reviews/mbpromain/index.php)...

MacBook Pro Core Duo 2GHz: 2 minutes, 41 seconds

14-inch iBook G4 1.42GHz: 1 minute, 49 seconds

One last hurrah for G4! ;)

You are comparing Apples to Oranges. Single vs Dual processor ad different speeds. Considering that, the iBook did pretty well! I could be unfair just like you are and post comparisons of the Quad vs the Macbook Pro. Which one do you think would win? Would it be fair?

[Demon Hunter]

My best GUESS based on the 68k to PPC transition (it took 4 years) is 4 to 5 years.

I agree. :) It makes sense. That gives newly purchased PowerPC Macs a long, supported life.

You are comparing Apples to Oranges. Single vs Dual processor ad different speeds. Considering that, the iBook did pretty well!

What? That was my point. The iBook destroyed the MacBook Pro.

[cait-sith]

You could wait for the new MacBook that is supposed to come out..

Generally, I'd stay away from PowerPC stuff now. Although the switch-over will be gradual, remember that once Intel becomes the norm and they stop selling PowerPC-based hardware, the PowerPC support will be a burden to Apple. Will they be supporting it as well as they support Intel at that stage? Maybe, maybe not. That's a gamble.

Anyone care to add their 2c in about how the 68k fared around year 3 or 4 of the transition to PowerPC? I wasn't on Macs then. It would serve as a good indicator.

[londonweb]

After much careful thought, here's my decision based on my current situation:

I have a G4 powerbook, and a windows machine on my desktop which I want to retire. I think a Mac Mini is a good and cheap solution for me (my pc is a bit of a dinosaur so compared to that the G4 will fly- it's all relative, right?), and I'll probably only use it for a year or so and then upgrade to whatever Apple is producing then (because of course, this time next year I'll be rich). Bearing in mind there are plenty of PowerPCs still on sale I can't see Apple phasing out proper PowerPC support before then (famous last words).

So in conclusion...I'm going to buy G4.

Thanks again for all the comments

[m-dogg]

After much careful thought, here's my decision based on my current situation:

I have a G4 powerbook, and a windows machine on my desktop which I want to retire. I think a Mac Mini is a good and cheap solution for me (my pc is a bit of a dinosaur so compared to that the G4 will fly- it's all relative, right?), and I'll probably only use it for a year or so and then upgrade to whatever Apple is producing then (because of course, this time next year I'll be rich). Bearing in mind there are plenty of PowerPCs still on sale I can't see Apple phasing out proper PowerPC support before then (famous last words).

So in conclusion...I'm going to buy G4.

Thanks again for all the comments

Good for you - I'm planning to pick up a 12" powerbook myself in the near future.

[Eidorian]

Good for you - I'm planning to pick up a 12" powerbook myself in the near future.Refurb....

[m-dogg]

Refurb....

yes, a refurb...