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Sam/B
Apr 12, 2006, 11:02 AM
What else can I check over before sending off resume's with examples of my work? I'm hoping someone will have a better understanding of what employers are likely to be looking for when they view the raw InDesign file for your layouts? So far i've made sure all of the following is correct to my best understanding but i'm looking for anything that I may have missed:

- I've made sure stylesheets are used on all text (paragraph and character)
- I've made sure my text boxes are linked
- correct baseline's across multiple texts or pages
- tracking/kerning/leading has all been checked.

Does anything else come to mind that I should check before sending off examples of my raw InDesign files to employers? What's the best way of compiling the file for displaying on cdr? I'm hoping for entry level work somewhere, even if it's unpaid work to learn hands on and gain experience.

Other than magazines/newspapers what sections of related industries can I look into that utilise page layout and graphic editing skills? I've been told to consider looking into promotion/marketing/advertising departments but i'm not entirely sure what was meant by that or where to begin looking.
I'll be fresh out of university in a month or two so I have some time to work on this get it just right. I just need to get my foot in the door within a related field as i'm told most jobs go internally. Any suggestions appreciated.



Blue Velvet
Apr 12, 2006, 11:16 AM
Honestly?

If someone sent us with a CV and samples of work on a CD, the CD would go straight in the bin.

Send hard copies of your artwork out.

Of course, I'm only speaking from my own experience.

Stampyhead
Apr 12, 2006, 11:41 AM
Honestly?

If someone sent us with a CV and samples of work on a CD, the CD would go straight in the bin.

Send hard copies of your artwork out.

Of course, I'm only speaking from my own experience.
Agreed. And if you did have to send electronic copies, export them to PDF. Make it as easy as possible for the person doing the hiring to open your files.

supremedesigner
Apr 12, 2006, 12:25 PM
I made my own website to showcase my portfolio and I got hired right away. Make a creative website and they will like it.

EDIT: If you don't want to make website, that's fine. Just send them interactive PDF which is really cool (they'll like it a lot!) kinda like website. This is created from inDesign. :eek: :D

Sam/B
Apr 12, 2006, 12:27 PM
ooh really? that's the complete opposite to what people have told me in the past. I've been told employers will want your raw indesign and quark files so they can check you've used stylesheets on text and that you've used correct baseline settings, linked text boxes etc things like that (stuff you cant tell from looking at a jpeg/tiff of someones layout?

What I was going to do which is what has been suggested to me in the past was send a cd with 5 of my best indesign layouts and 5 of my best quark together with jpeg's on the cd they can look at if they dont want the raw file with a hard copy of my resume, a cover letter and a small print off of my layouts (2 on a single page with a description next to it) detailing exactly what i've done to it such as tracking/leading settings, fonts i've used. Not all dissimilar from what i've started doing here (scroll down past the first picture and you'll see the beginning of a small list) - http://www.pre-auto.com/sambarwick/indesign_drift_light_kit_1.htm

Would you really advice against not sending any raw files just a print out of the finished layout?

(edit: the website and the layouts in that link haven't been updated in a while, alot of the dodgy looking features have been changed, just having trouble with the server providers)

supreme do you have a link to your website by any chance? sounds really interesting wouldn't mind taking a look see what I should be aiming for.

dornoforpyros
Apr 12, 2006, 01:00 PM
ooh really? that's the complete opposite to what people have told me in the past. I've been told employers will want your raw indesign and quark files so they can check you've used stylesheets on text and that you've used correct baseline settings, linked text boxes etc things like that (stuff you cant tell from looking at a jpeg/tiff of someones layout?

What I was going to do which is what has been suggested to me in the past was send a cd with 5 of my best indesign layouts and 5 of my best quark together with jpeg's on the cd they can look at if they dont want the raw file with a hard copy of my resume, a cover letter and a small print off of my layouts (2 on a single page with a description next to it) detailing exactly what i've done to it such as tracking/leading settings, fonts i've used. Not all dissimilar from what i've started doing here (scroll down past the first picture and you'll see the beginning of a small list) - http://www.pre-auto.com/sambarwick/indesign_drift_light_kit_1.htm

Would you really advice against not sending any raw files just a print out of the finished layout?

(edit: the website and the layouts in that link haven't been updated in a while, alot of the dodgy looking features have been changed, just having trouble with the server providers)

That's the type of stuff you bring to an interview, just sending that much stuff to a potential employer and as other people said, it ends up in the trash. The fact is an easy to use website that showcases your strongest work (as well as print designs can be displayed on web) will go much further.

tobefirst
Apr 12, 2006, 01:04 PM
I completely agree with the above posters in that hard copies should be sent whenever possible, and that .pdfs work well for documents submitted electronically.

However, if I was to answer your question as it was asked, I would be looking to see that the designer used as few elements as possible to create the piece. One of my fellow designers here, and the person who I replaced, are notorious for abusing text boxes. They are all over the place, when, often times, a single text box would have accomplished the same thing, and done so more quickly and efficiently. The "fewest elements" policy, to me, also regards text. Are you double spacing in between paragraphs when designating "Space After..." would work better and make the copy cleaner?

Again, the ultimate end result is a beautifully created finished piece, which is better shown as a hard copy or .pdf, and emphasis should be placed on finding the person who creates the best finished product. But if you want to see how proficient a designer is at a program, just take a look at one of their typical documents.

chaosbunny
Apr 12, 2006, 01:07 PM
ooh really? that's the complete opposite to what people have told me in the past. I've been told employers will want your raw indesign and quark files so they can check you've used stylesheets on text and that you've used correct baseline settings, linked text boxes etc things like that (stuff you cant tell from looking at a jpeg/tiff of someones layout?

Lol, who told you that?:rolleyes:

One thing you should keep in mind is that art directors or whoever is going to hire you are people who are under almost constant stress. If someone sends indesign and quark files with fonts, pictures etc I really believe no one would bother installing fonts on his/her machine and repairing links to check out how you created these documents. A simple, but elegant homepage is the best sollution imo. You can send out emails with a short cv and a link to the homepage. Granted, most people will delete your mail immediately, but some may look at the link and invite you to come to their office. From my personal experience this way is far better than sending out prints of your work. While prints may recieve a little more attention most of the time they go straight to the bin, just like the email. But in same amount of time you print your stuff, cut it out, make a nice presentation, put it in an envelope and send it to someone you could send 50 mails or more. Plus it saves you a lot of money this way.:)

Just my 2$, at least this works for me.:D

Sam/B
Apr 12, 2006, 01:26 PM
sounds like I had better spend more time getting the website up to standard and finished ready for when I leave rather than making the raw files spotless?
It does make sense though does it not to give an employer the option to look at your raw files if he/she chooses? Obviously it would be stupid to send them nothing but a cd with your files on it, I was thinking more along the lines of a folder with jpegs (or should I use tiffs/pdf?) of my layouts then have a subfolder with the raw files they can look at if they like the jpegs or ignore if they don't need to look at it. This would compliment a printed resume + cover letter with probably 5 example layouts on it.
makes sense to me anyway to include them (with a print out and jpegs/pdfs of the layouts obviously) :o

If I dont include the raw files if/when they look at the raw files at the interview stage does anyone know what they check for? Or have I pretty much covered the main things their likely to check? I've heard a larger emphasis on the hiring process is based on personality and character not just technical ability? Does that sound about normal?

Blue Velvet
Apr 12, 2006, 01:34 PM
The only time I would be interested in looking at raw files is if I like your portfolio, you make it to an formal interview stage and only then do we make you sit down and do a test 1 hour to do a simple layout with provided copy and images.

After you've gone, I then would look at how you put your document together in that hour given to you. It's very interesting to see what people do with that hour... some get a lot slapped down but neglect to convert the images to CMYK and set up guides and other components. Others are more methodical but get less copy fitted...

I'll let you guess which one I would hire.

zelmo
Apr 12, 2006, 01:40 PM
The only time I would be interested in looking at raw files is if I like your portfolio, you make it to an formal interview stage and only then do we make you sit down and do a test 1 hour to do a simple layout with provided copy and images.

After you've gone, I then would look at how you put your document together in that hour given to you. It's very interesting to see what people do with that hour... some get a lot slapped down but neglect to convert the images to CMYK and set up guides and other components. Others are more methodical but get less copy fitted...

I'll let you guess which one I would hire.

When we interview someone, we give them a color laser and have them re-create the file. Direct them to a folder on the server with fonts and images, and let them go. After they leave, we get 2-3 people together and pore over the doc to see how they did. We are brutal about it, too.

Sam/B
Apr 12, 2006, 01:49 PM
Is that a common interview process? sounds very effective, it may even be worth me testing myself I think, see if I can produce something up to professional standard in an hour as this is something I really want to make work. What would you expect from someone in that timeframe? Any further tips if they ask me to do that in an interview? I've not officially been taught InDesign/Quark/illustrator etc it's all stuff i've taught myself as it was something I decide that I would like to do quite late in my course so any tips I can use would be hugely appreciated.

dornoforpyros
Apr 12, 2006, 02:05 PM
It does make sense though does it not to give an employer the option to look at your raw files if he/she chooses? Obviously it would be stupid to send them nothing but a cd with your files on it, I was thinking more along the lines of a folder with jpegs (or should I use tiffs/pdf?) of my layouts then have a subfolder with the raw files they can look at if they like the jpegs or ignore if they don't need to look at it. This would compliment a printed resume + cover



I think single pdf with multiple pages to it would be much more effective...provided it's not 100mb in size. As other people have mentioned, creative directors are very busy people, the easier you can make it on them the better. I really, really doubt they have time to look at raw files at first contact.

As I said before, keep the in dept stuff for the interview.

Sam/B
Apr 12, 2006, 02:12 PM
yeh makes sense, not so messy and confusing if I just use pdfs, they'll always have the website (once its finished and updated) if they do prefer to view jpegs of each layout.

backupdrummer
Apr 12, 2006, 02:39 PM
Other than magazines/newspapers what sections of related industries can I look into that utilise page layout and graphic editing skills? I've been told to consider looking into promotion/marketing/advertising departments but i'm not entirely sure what was meant by that or where to begin looking.
I'll be fresh out of university in a month or two so I have some time to work on this get it just right. I just need to get my foot in the door within a related field as i'm told most jobs go internally. Any suggestions appreciated.


Lots of companies need layout people. I work for a Institutional banking firm producing all marketing materials along with all other print materials. I will be honest I have to dable in Powerpoint for many presentations but that is only part of what I produce and that is an aspect of the position that scared away many other designers that were not willing to do work in Excel and Powerpoint on a daily basis. It has been a blessing I do much of my graphical layout in Illustrator and then move it over to Powerpoint. The biggest plus has been that I have been able to desing more then just print and web materials. I have done various client report templates, promotional crap, email campaign engines. Right now I am working with contractors on building a new lobby and signage.

I started off with a pretty slim portfolio with regards to actual made it to prodcution items and now I have a portfolio that is bursting at the seems with all kinds of media and skill sets.

Long story short, look beyond the standard mags, newspapers, and ad agencys. Lots of groups need people to get stuff into print.

Sam/B
Apr 12, 2006, 02:58 PM
all counts as experience don't it, is that a normal high street bank or something else to what i'm thinking of you work at drummer?

supremedesigner
Apr 12, 2006, 03:12 PM
ooh really? that's the complete opposite to what people have told me in the past. I've been told employers will want your raw indesign and quark files so they can check you've used stylesheets on text and that you've used correct baseline settings, linked text boxes etc things like that (stuff you cant tell from looking at a jpeg/tiff of someones layout?

What I was going to do which is what has been suggested to me in the past was send a cd with 5 of my best indesign layouts and 5 of my best quark together with jpeg's on the cd they can look at if they dont want the raw file with a hard copy of my resume, a cover letter and a small print off of my layouts (2 on a single page with a description next to it) detailing exactly what i've done to it such as tracking/leading settings, fonts i've used. Not all dissimilar from what i've started doing here (scroll down past the first picture and you'll see the beginning of a small list) - http://www.pre-auto.com/sambarwick/indesign_drift_light_kit_1.htm

Would you really advice against not sending any raw files just a print out of the finished layout?

(edit: the website and the layouts in that link haven't been updated in a while, alot of the dodgy looking features have been changed, just having trouble with the server providers)

supreme do you have a link to your website by any chance? sounds really interesting wouldn't mind taking a look see what I should be aiming for.

I haven't updated my website in a while so here you go: www.aaronhalldesign.com

EDIT: Some pages don't work and am too lazy to update because I have a job now. :p

ATD
Apr 12, 2006, 03:39 PM
I don't make my living with InDesign (mostly Photoshop and Maya) but I have just about every kind of way of showing things that I can. I have 2 printed books, a web site with pdfs, disks with pdfs, a reel on DVD, printed samples, formated emails/letters and I have links to folders on my web site with layered PS files and renders. If a client wants something special I have enough different types of files ready to put something together quickly. I would think the best way to do this is to cover all your bases, everybody wants something different, be ready for that.