MacWorld Boston... No Apple?

[MacRumors]

The Boston Globe (http://www.boston.com/dailyglobe2/037/business/Apple_still_says_it_won_t_attend_04_Macworld_Boston+.shtml) reports nothing has changed from Apple's perspective on MacWorld Boston:


Apple "will not be participating in Macworld Boston," the company said in a statement.



According to an IDG spokesperson - MacWorld Boston 2004 is happening... with or without Apple.

[shadowfax]

wow, apple is true to its word?

[springscansing]

Who the heck wants it in Boston. No offense to Bostonites, but Boston is no New York City.

Bring it back darnit. Stupid people. You go Apple, show them who's expo it is!

[macdop]

New York City, the capital of the world, WOHOO!!!

Boston, um...um...yeh...um...Boston?

[squatch]

You know, my thinking is the reason why Apple doesn't want to go back to Boston is all the bad memories that were spun....I mean, it is where Apple decided to let Microsoft within the flock...maybe their reasoning has to do with their wanting to break away from MS once and for all and Boston would only bring back horrible memories of Billy Boy's face overlooking the crowd with a sinister grin.

Just my two cents. :)

[Foocha]

Yeah, I agree - down on Boston.

We still haven't forgiven them for the tea party over here, you know ;)

[nickmcghie]

Originally posted by macdop
New York City, the capital of the world, WOHOO!!!

Boston, um...um...yeh...um...Boston?
actually, i heard that if the world had to select a capital right now, the most likely candidate would be shanghai

hey.. MacWorld Expo Shanghai.. that kinda has a ring to it doesn't it? hehe :p

[dricci]

Boston would be a place I'd be able to get too. New York is too far off. I was really looking forward to finally getting to go to an Expo. But without Apple there, it'll be hella lame :(

Why should it matter where they hold expo? Maybe they should rotate locations every year.

[irmongoose]

You guys in the US should have realised this ages ago...

What's the nickname for NYC? Big Apple!

Hehehe...




irmongoose

[Classic]

Originally posted by dricci
Boston would be a place I'd be able to get too. New York is too far off. I was really looking forward to finally getting to go to an Expo.

DC -> NY = about 225 miles

DC -> Boston = about 445 miles


How is Boston a place you'd be able to get too, while New York is too far off? From DC, it's twice the distance...

Maybe during that time of the year you aren't living near DC anymore?

[yzedf]

I thought Macworld was just some magazine.

Why doesn't Apple start their own expo? Or is this them trying to use someone elses dime?

[MacKenzie999]

"New York is a hell-hole, and you know how I feel about hell-holes!"
-Homer J. Simpson

[thepickledegg]

Who cares Boston or NY either. We should be more concerned about the UI and speed of OSX.

This is just an excuse for Apple to bow out of the costly trade shows and focus using their retail outlets as there presentation platform to save money.

[hvfsl]

If there is no Apple at Boston, when are they going to release the PPC 970 Macs. The only other expo is paris before 2004 and they do not normally release new products there.

The PPC970 launch is too big to release at anything other than a US Mac Expo, I just hope this doesn't mean we have to wait until SF 2004 to get a new PPC970 Mac.

[irmongoose]

Originally posted by hvfsl
If there is no Apple at Boston, when are they going to release the PPC 970 Macs. The only other expo is paris before 2004 and they do not normally release new products there.

The PPC970 launch is too big to release at anything other than a US Mac Expo, I just hope this doesn't mean we have to wait until SF 2004 to get a new PPC970 Mac.

Actually MWNY 2003 is going to happen... from 2004 it will become MWBS...

Here (http://idg.com/www/events.nsf/EventsByProductLineForm?OpenForm&region=WW&product=Macworld) is the proof...

So you can still hope for the 970 coming out during summer! :D


P.S. Sorry I don't know why but I can't think properly right now.. hence my awkward English...



irmongoose

[PeteyNice]

Um, this whole MacWorld Boston thing is not until 2004. There will still be a MW in Manhattan in July.

[Fender2112]

Did Apple ever give a reason for not attending the Macworld Boston?

[mangoman]

...anybody have a link for info on the New York show? I'd like to go-- in fact, I WILL go for sure if there is in fact a show in NYC. Anyone got the info?

Thanks.

[PeteyNice]

Website for MWNY 2003:

http://www.macworldexpo.com/macworld2003/V33/index.cvn

[mangoman]

Thanks, Petey

[Kodex]

www.macworldexpo.com

Who would of thought eh? =)

[Macmaniac]

Thank god, at least I can enjoy one more Macworld this year! Hopefully this years MWNY movie will be featuring 64 bit processors!!
I look forward to highlighting the last expo in NY if things don't work out!!

This years video will be well worth it!

[Sonofhaig]

Originally posted by dricci
Boston would be a place I'd be able to get too. New York is too far off. I was really looking forward to finally getting to go to an Expo. But without Apple there, it'll be hella lame :(

Why should it matter where they hold expo? Maybe they should rotate locations every year.

Uh...If you're near DC, wouldn't you be closer to NYC than Boston?:o

[Eric-C]

Jobs emphasized the focus on laptops this year. Well, who uses lap tops? Mostly business people and college students.

Boston happens to be the most densely college student populated city in the USA. A statistic showed that the average age the people of Boston was 28. Getting students (who are usually more accepting to change) to switch, especially en masse, could potentially establish a concrete consumer base. As a soon to be college student myself, I notice that a lot of my friends are investing money on lap tops, as they are anticipating the need for portability. Many of them have not considered Apple.

I know that Stanford U. unofficially endorses Apple as most of their students use them (this is by word of mouth), and having Harvard, *MIT*, Tufts, or Boston College become an Apple majority school might not be so bad for the company's rep.

Of course, this is thinking way into the future. My point still stands, however. Moving to Boston is definitely a good idea.

[Centris 650]

Personally I think it shouldn't be in Boston OR NY...it should be in South Carolina!! Yeah, MWSC. I can see it now...uh...wait, we don't even have an Apple store in SC. Hmmmmm, forget that. (Maybe MWNC and Arn could have a booth or something.) :D :p

[iAryeh]

This means that Steve Jobs will not be doing the Keynote. That means no product announcments or anything of that nature. What will we ever do?

[JtheLemur]

Who would of thought eh? =)

Who would have thought, even!

New York City- our city can kick your city's ass.

:D :D :D

[Freg3000]

Originally posted by yzedf
I thought Macworld was just some magazine.

Why doesn't Apple start their own expo? Or is this them trying to use someone elses dime?

Yeah, why not? It doesn't have to be a whole big thing, most people just want a keynote anyway. Why do they have to go through IDG?

[bostonjordan]

Originally posted by Eric-C
J
Boston happens to be the most densely college student populated city in the USA. A statistic showed that the average age the people of Boston was 28. Getting students (who are usually more accepting to change) to switch, especially en masse, could potentially establish a concrete consumer base. As a soon to be college student myself, I notice that a lot of my friends are investing money on lap tops, as they are anticipating the need for portability. Many of them have not considered Apple.

I know that Stanford U. unofficially endorses Apple as most of their students use them (this is by word of mouth), and having Harvard, *MIT*, Tufts, or Boston College become an Apple majority school might not be so bad for the company's rep.


And Boston University! Let's not forget them. In the College of Communication, you are shunned if a PC walks through the door.

Unfortunately, the expo is held in the summer -- so most college students won't be around anyway. HOWEVER, it DOES provide Apple with the perfect opportunity to court the schools' IT departments.

I have a suggestion: Macworld MINNEAPOLIS. Right in the middle of everything and close to my summer residence.

[LinuxGigolo]

Originally posted by hvfsl
The only other expo is paris before 2004 and they do not normally release new products there.

If I recall correctly, the Indigo, Key (S)lime, and updated graphite (466) iBooks were intro'd at AE:Paris. Not saying that this makes Paris a more likely candidate for a big product intro, but hey... it could happen.

[Sedulous]

One has to wonder if the choice in MW has to do with target audience. Clearly Boston would be the place to go if you wanted education and research market exposure (numerous large universities such as MIT, Harvard, BU, BC, NorthEastern as well as the 2nd largest software development and the largest biotech industry in the USA). New York would have a larger business market.

[springscansing]

Originally posted by JtheLemur

New York City- our city can kick your city's ass.

:D :D :D

Haha, it totally can too.

[MrMacMan]

Originally posted by Fender2112
Did Apple ever give a reason for not attending the Macworld Boston?

Yes it said because. And that is a damned good enough reason. ;)

No they didn't want to hurt NYC economically even more then it is already. They wanted to be all american... haha.

Boston aint part of america. :p

[d00d]

I'm not going to pick on New York or give in to the childish rivalry that seems to be between these two cities. I like New York, but I like Boston too. I'm closer to Boston so I might be able to make it out to one out here.

If you say that Boston sucks or that New York is just plain better, you haven't given it a chance.

I think this move by Apple is just inane. I can't figure it out. I can't understand the reasoning. Heck, even bad press is good press. Why would they pass this up? The excitement generated by these events is only a good thing for Apple.

[Trinity570]

IDG is not thinking here. Who's actually going to go to Boston if Apple isn't there?! NYC is a far better location since it's closer to more markets. Philly is close by, DC and Baltimore are closer and Boston is fairly close to North. NYC is a no-brainer. It's more centrally located so more people can get to it. This will be my last Macworld (provided Apple attends). IDG is just shooting themselves in the foot by making this move.

[PeteyNice]

It also should be noted that IDG is a Boston-area based company.

In response to d00d, MacWorlds generate a lot of buzz because usually Apple announces cool stuff. If they were just to show up and not announce cool stuff the buzz would die considerably. As has been mentioned before having an announcement schedule that matches up with MacWorlds is tough on Apple. They want to get out of it all together and do something more fliexible.

While I think MacWorlds are fun and unique I understand their point.

[3xtrmn8r]

New York has Madison Ave.

Most magazines are based out of New York.

These are two of Apple's key markets. A no brainer ASFAIC.

[Mudbug]

Originally posted by 3xtrmn8r
ASFAIC.

I know I'm not the "chatmaster", but what does this mean, please?

Oh, and I think (being in Louisiana) that Apple has one of it's biggest customer bases in the publishing industry as a whole, and most (generalizing - be nice) publishing co's are in New York, they should stay there. But either way, I'm not going. I like to watch on QuickTime, see the pictures on the Apple site, but I'm not plunking down the $$ equivalent of a new powermac to see what many journalists call an Apple "Revival."

Without any bias towards either city, New York sounds like a better venue to the non-northeasterner like me.

just my ¢¢.

[thepickledegg]

Bagdad, Iraq 2003
and some undisclosed place in North Korea

[zaphoyd]

Originally posted by Mudbug
I know I'm not the "chatmaster", but what does this mean, please?


As far as i see/know i would guess

[springscansing]

AFAIK = as far as i know

ASFAIC Is just made up, heh.

[chewbaccapits]

Okay..This is supposed to be the most important year for APPLE...But All I read in the news is trouble for APPLE...You take this expo for instance...They should have resolved this last year...Then I hear that Apple is trying to give its users the shaft ; http://www.dailytrojan.com/article.do?issue=/V148/N15&id=04-bit.15c.html

Then Opera will stop developing its browser for the mac...And wasn't Apple being sued for infrigement on some company's "LED" patent. Apparently, or allegedlly, once Apple patented that idea, a company (I forgot where that one was..I know I read something on it here though..) alledges that APPLE stole the idea in the first place...I mean, doesn't all this court crap hold APPLE back? This post reads very negative but you add this with the slower processors , iPod batteries dying on or before its 1-year warranty, crappy economy and, well, ....you can help but think this could be the WORST year for APPLE..

[thabridawg]

does this mean there won't be a Steve keynote.. or that Apple with be COMPLETELY missing from Boston.

It's kinda weird if there wasn't any Apple stuff whatsoever... I mean.. even Microsoft and Adobe have booths and such. Wouldn't Apple have at least a booth?

[ryan]

Apple does not want to tie their product release cycles to arbitrary dates established by the Macworlds twice a year. Traditionally Apple would see their sales dry up in the weeks preceding a Macworld, after which one of the following would occur. Either Apple would announce a new/upgraded product at a Macworld and suddenly they would be crushed with orders that they would have a hard time filling or, if they didn’t announce new/upgraded products the “Apple faithful” would cry bloody murder (on forums like these) for not getting what the rumor sites said would be announced. Either way this boom and bust cycle would cause havoc with Apple’s financial books. With Apple pulling away from the Macworlds they are able to announce/release new/upgraded products when those products are ready, end of story.

[bignumbers]

I'm really getting sick of this MacWorld game. Apple told IDG they WOULD participate in a MacWorld/Boston 2004. This was while IDG was in negotiations with Boston for moving the show. (This comes from good authority; I've discussed this with someone who works for IDG Expos.)

Then simultaneous with the big announcement (marching band and all), Apple changed its mind. I love Apple, but this was a horrid thing to do.

If Apple pulls out, there is no expo. Yeah, bad for us, but horrible for the hosting city (whether Boston or NYC). Did you know 90,000 people came to the MacWorld/SF last month? Can you imagine the damage that does to the local economy? How many people will/won't have jobs as a result? This is the game that Apple is playing.

I've been to every east coast expo for about 15 years, and a few SF shows too. Boston is the better city to host the east coast show. It's IMPORTANT to Boston, and they do it up right. To NYC, it's just something that takes place in a corner of the city. I'll go to it in either city; I just think Boston is a better place.

Size of city and local industry is irrelevant. The western show is in SF, while LA has more people and the entertainment industry. Anyone think LA would be a better place for the show?

But my real point is Apple deserves some significant complaining for this whole game. A Boston show, with its lower costs and new convention center, would lure back some big vendors (Adobe, Macromedia, etc) who no longer do NYC. It would be a great show. But the game has the potential to wreak havoc on real lives, making our complaining of the better city a paltry problem in comparison.

Hmmph!

[bignumbers]

Originally posted by ryan
Apple does not want to tie their product release cycles to arbitrary dates established by the Macworlds twice a year.

This I agree with. I've long believed MacWorldExpos should be rescheduled for more appropriate times to announce products. February/March for the education-buying season, and September/October for the holiday-buying season.

The current timing (mid-summer and just after the holidays) really are the worst times to release products.

[redAPPLE]

Originally posted by hvfsl
If there is no Apple at Boston, when are they going to release the PPC 970 Macs. The only other expo is paris before 2004 and they do not normally release new products there.

The PPC970 launch is too big to release at anything other than a US Mac Expo, I just hope this doesn't mean we have to wait until SF 2004 to get a new PPC970 Mac.

actually a scary thought isn't?

it's like santa claus saying, "ok folks, flying around in winter is killing my bones... and i've got athritis now... i will be just be bringing the goodies in May..."

like i said, a scary thought...

[Jaguar NYC]

I say keep it in NYC... I live in New York and want to keep the MacWorld Expo there.

[Xerov]

Originally posted by irmongoose
You guys in the US should have realised this ages ago...

What's the nickname for NYC? Big Apple!

Hehehe...




irmongoose


I did. And posted it in the other tread on this topic.

[squatch]

Hey, I like the sound of that!! I'm from Asheville and the closest store to me is in Raleigh...they could hold it in the Queen City.

I'm actually in Texas right now in the Metroplex at school and with the overwhelming technological hub this whole area is....I could just see a MWTX....Steve walking on stage in cowboy boots and a hat doing a John Wayne type keynote..."Well what we have hear little lady is a new 64 bit computer that'll blow the dust right off your spurs"
Yee haw, forget ropin' "Longhorns"....let's rope some Apples down here! :)

[squatch]

Originally posted by Centris 650
Personally I think it shouldn't be in Boston OR NY...it should be in South Carolina!! Yeah, MWSC. I can see it now...uh...wait, we don't even have an Apple store in SC. Hmmmmm, forget that. (Maybe MWNC and Arn could have a booth or something.) :D :p

Hey, I like the sound of that!! I'm from Asheville and the closest store to me is in Raleigh...they could hold it in the Queen City.

I'm actually in Texas right now in the Metroplex at school and with the overwhelming technological hub this whole area is....I could just see a MWTX....Steve walking on stage in cowboy boots and a hat doing a John Wayne type keynote..."Well what we have hear little lady is a new 64 bit computer that'll blow the dust right off your spurs"
Yee haw, forget ropin' "Longhorns"....let's rope some Apples down here! :)

[squatch]

Sorry for the double reply!! I was trying to delete the old message and for some stupid reason it won't let me. :confused:

[Mudbug]

Originally posted by bignumbers
Anyone think LA would be a better place for the show?

If by LA you mean Louisiana, I'm all for it.

[suzerain]

And the way to reach the mass market is to be in NYC, clearly.

I believe apple backed out of boston, because it would be a complete, utter waste of money to have a show there. Let's look at all the arguments:

(1)
"Boston is nice, and New York is a pain in the ass, and expensive, and blah blah blah". Yeah, no ****; NYC *is* a pain in the ass. (Those of us who live here know that.) So, this argument would seem to be a better one for showgoers, and exhibitors. Well, I don't see why the showgoers matter; it isn't their expo. I'll accept that *maybe* there would be a slightly bigger exhibitor presence at Boston *now*, but Apple's trying to *expand* market share, not display to the world that they can't handle New York (running to a second-tier American city).

(2)
"Boston would put on a much better show...they care about it, etc. and so on". So what? Explain how this translates into more money for apple? Seems to me, the press that Apple gets from the NYC show FAR outweighs any possible negatives w/r/t how important the show is to New York. And let me tell you...this show isn't important to New York; it's important to Apple.

(3)
"Boston has a lot of universities and blah blah" Umm...Apple doesn't have Macworld Expo so they can sell to local businesses. That's what local sales reps and the Apple Stores are for. The Macworld Expos are NATIONAL events. Therefore, it makes sense to be where you will get the most press.

It seems to be it's a no-brainer. Name one (just one) major media outlet in Boston.

Explain to me how Apple will get post keynote interviews on CNBC, CNNfn, and other networks in Boston. Explain to me how they will get coverage in the New York Times, and Wall Street Journal. Explain to me how many international news outlets have bases in Boston.

The point of these shows is for Apple to make the maxiumum possible splash; they are the only times when people will stop and look at Apple; the only soapbox Apple has to stand on, to capture everybody's attention.

Whether the local show itself is more convenient, or more visited, or more expensive, is really unimportant compared to what kind of press and buzz the show itself will generate.

And, sorry...no Boston show ever generated anywhere near the buzz that the NYC Macworlds have.

Think of it another way...If you were going to create a show in...say...China, would you put it in Canton? No, you'd put it in Shanghai! Would you go to France and have an expo in Marseille? Of course not; you have it in Paris.

San Francisco is the center of the computing world, and New York is the l;argest, and most influential city in the country. Those are the logical best locations for these shows (if they continue to exist).

[Centris 650]

Originally posted by squatch


Hey, I like the sound of that!! I'm from Asheville and the closest store to me is in Raleigh...they could hold it in the Queen City.


Yeah! Charlotte would be cool and a lot closer for me than MWNY!

[Eric-C]

suzerain:

Your point is valid, but I'm not convinced that New York is, without a doubt, a better place to host the expo than Boston.

As to your three points, I won't bother answering the first two, as they are completely subjective.

You claim that Apple hopes to target local business as they have been for many of the expos. However, this is a tricky market considering that most businesses, especially those that are getting started and those that are firmly planted, will always have the fear of compatibility. It doesn't matter that macs can open word files. Unless businesses are looking for high end machines for graphics design or other demanding opperations, they will probably buy PC's for the lower cost.

As for media coverage - the largest news firms do have correspondents that travel outside of NY. If they are not willing to travel, it is unlikely that the expo would be a noteworthy story where ever it is. The point is, the best thing for Apple right now is to be able to expose their products to actual potential buyers. Seeing Jobs on TV isn't going to make a big impact toward businesses if they aren't even targeted well.

You didn't make a very clear statement as to why marketing toward students is such a waste of time, other than the fact that Apple wants to expose their products to local businesses; a point I've already responded to.

Take a look at Apple's products - PowerBooks and the PowerMac along with others have made updates, specifically for high end users. Do you honestly think a business would buy high end models in a large quantity? A smart business will buy only what they need at the best price. In that case they would either buy low end model Macs or a PC brands. Why should an expo be wasted on businesses that don't intend to buy their newer products.

Students on the other hand are individual consumers. They are more up to date with the latest technology and tend to make more use of it, as opposed to large companies with employees that use word/excel/pp. There is actually a market here in Boston. I don't mean to imply that there aren't students in NY, but not nearly as much as in Boston. I'm not limiting students as the only market Boston has to offer but that certainly distinguishes it.


I understand your point of NY being the center of comerse and business but that doesn't mean that NY is the best market for every product. I stand on my opinion that Boston is the better place to have the expo.

[steve53e]

"And, sorry...no Boston show ever generated anywhere near the buzz that the NYC Macworlds have."

So sorry, but I'm not biting on that one. Back in those days Apple was generating little, if any buzz, ANYWHERE! It's unlikely Boston had anything to do with it. And if New York is such a great place, why has Apple's market share been dropping over the past several years instead of steadily rising year-over-year? Hmm. Maybe it's because they moved to New York! I'm being facetious of course.

Nothing is going to sell Apple but Apple themselves. As far as I'm concerned, location has little to do with it. Why is the Int'l Consumer Electronics Show held in Las Vegas? Is it because Las Vegas is the mecca of the consumer electronics industry? Hardly!

As for Steve's Jobs comment about investing in New York. That's b.s.. If Steve Jobs was that patriotic, he'd put Americans to work and have Apple Computers proudly displaying "Made-in the-USA" stickers on them.

My reason for going to MacWorld East Coast is to see all the hardware/software offerings from the various vendors. Other than the Keynote and the free posters found at the Apple Booth, there's little I can't see at the local Apple Retail Store with regard to Apple itself. MacWorld Boston. MacWorld New York. Doesn't matter to me. I'll attend regardless of the location whether Apple attends or not. MacWorld is about software and hardware products FOR Apple Computers. It's not ABOUT Apple Computer.

[Hepper]

Purely Speculation but, What if this is all apple's plan to start there own expo. They have there own stores, why not now this.

Hepper Schepp

[Uragon]

In my opinion, Apple should attend the Macworld regardless it is in New York or Boston. It is an exposure for them and other companies that supports Apple. And most important, it is a place where Mac enthusiasts have the opportunity to be together and brag :)

[redAPPLE]

i'd say, Steve "should" do keynotes (in NY, Boston, LA, Baghdad, wherever). They should cut back in booth size, equipment, posters, banners, personnel.

on one side, they would be exposing Apple, though not to the extent as we know it.

on the other side, they might save a few bucks with less personnel available, less equipment to ship, etc.

[MacKenzie999]

Originally posted by redAPPLE
i'd say, Steve "should" do keynotes (in NY, Boston, LA, Baghdad, wherever). They should cut back in booth size, equipment, posters, banners, personnel.

on one side, they would be exposing Apple, though not to the extent as we know it.

on the other side, they might save a few bucks with less personnel available, less equipment to ship, etc.

I imagine the time and effort Mr. Jobs puts into a keynote far, far outweighs all the other costs involved with putting up a tradeshow booth. What do you suppose his hourly wage might be?

Also, NYC or Boston, I think either is valid for a number of reasons (obviously I'd prefer Boston for my own convenience); I think the big mistake here is Apple snubbing Boston for no apparent, convincing reason. As has been pointed out elsewhere, Boston has no shortage of college students who are ripe switching candidates; seeing Apple flip the bird to one's city of choice isn't going to endear them to those potential switchers.

[uclave]

Originally posted by bignumbers
I'm really getting sick of this MacWorld game. Apple told IDG they WOULD participate in a MacWorld/Boston 2004. This was while IDG was in negotiations with Boston for moving the show. (This comes from good authority; I've discussed this with someone who works for IDG Expos.)


Well it sounds like that the person IDG was negotiating with at Apple didn't have the authority to negotiate a decision that big. Apple wants MacWorld in New York for stratgic reasons, and the person in charge of the IDG relationship at Apple either thought that cost issues overrode strategic issues, or (more likely) had no idea there were any strategic issues in the location of MacWorld.

Having MacWorld in Boston is silly, because (as has been said before) Apple gets more of a media impact here than in Boston. That might hurt the feelings of the East Coast's Third City, but what can you do?

[MacKid]

Originally posted by Hepper
Purely Speculation but, What if this is all apple's plan to start there own expo. They have there own stores, why not now this.

Hepper Schepp

That would seriously be a good idea, and then we could stop feeding money to this magazine that's 85% reviews!:D

[MacKid]

Let's all just think about this for a minute. Not that Boston is a "boring" city, but how many people do you think would fly/drive in if they suddenly announced that the Summer MacWorld would be moved to (drum roll) . . . AMES, IOWA! BETTER YET: KALAMAZOO, MICHIGAN!:rolleyes: