Apple Acquires 'Nothing Real'

[arn]

A couple of users wrote in with this:

According to VFXPro (http://www.vfxpro.com/brief/mainv/0,7220,33080,00.html) Apple has acquired the company Nothing Real (http://www.vfxpro.com/brief/mainv/0,7220,33080,00.html)... and it's products.<P.

An anonymous read writes:

Nothing Real no longer exists... it has been bought by...... Apple (!) No one knows yet what apple will do with the code, but the NReal team is kept and sent to Cupertino to start porting code to OSX.
Shake will no longer be available on IRIX, and NT for new customers. Only LINUX versions will be for sale until OSX is supported. Current customers on' all platforms will continue to have support from the integrated NReal team for at least a year.
The development of Tremor is stopped.


Here's an blurb about the company and their products (http://www.siggraph.org/s2002/exhibition/detail/130.html)

[Unregistered]

Is it possible that Apple has bought this company to beef up Final Cut Pro 4?

[lazyrighteye]

Are they not a 3D app?

[reyesg4]

I think Apple wants to make Final Cut 5 and iMovie 4 be able to handle hollywood style effects. More power to them. Just hope it runs on more than the lates Mac hardware at a good speed.

[Beej]

Very interesting. Looks like Apple wants to blow the video competition out of the water! That's fine with me... :D

[SPG]

I wouldn't be surprised to see Apple make a grab for the whole pie...Edit, Post, FX, Audio, DVD.

[Hemingray]

More power to 'em! This would definitely help beckon a new generation of pros to the Mac platform... and any program that worked on Lord of the Rings and Matrix has my instant and unconditional approval. :)

[Unregistered]

Well Adobe must reeeeeeally hate it. May be they stop supporting Mac paltform.

[Unregistered]

If only they didn't rely so heavily on their complete control of the mac market... :)

[Unregistered]

Originally posted by Unregistered
Well Adobe must reeeeeeally hate it. May be they stop supporting Mac paltform.

Yeah, sure. Give up half their market. Now that would be clever, wouldn't it?

[Stike]

I´ll say Apple will use the know how in different products. It is 2D, so I believe we can expect some picture editing solutions, for the consumer too, even combined with iMovie/Final Cut. Maybe something like "iAnimate" or whatever. Shake on OS X would definitely call more pros to the Mac, but it demands, as a high-end app really FAST machines...

So...
Expect G5 in Summer! Expect Shake at least on MWSF03!
:D

[Unregistered]

Now Apple needs to use some of its cash pile to buy Discreet.

That way they can rescue Cleaner from those Windoze centric bahstards.

Who wants to bet against me that we'll never see Cleaner 6 for Mac from Discreet? (That is if if Discreet even continues development on Cleaner.)

[mikedman_ak]

This is great unless Apple, in its excitement over OSX neglects those studios who already use shake. If an effects house like weta, with its heavy investment in serious linux hardware, dosen't want to jump into Mac land then apple should respect that and continue to develop the software for other platforms.

If played right this purchase could give apple a shot in the arm with Hollywood.... if not it could really bite them in the a**.

[Unregistered]

Supposedly the software will continue to be developed for Linux, and will be developed for OS X, although all other platforms will be dropped.

[Unregistered]

I work in the VFX industry, and to me, this is one of the smartest purchases Apple has ever made. The Maya/Shake combo is basically the new industry standard for high end work. If Apple handles this well, there could be a big migration towards Apple hardware too. This would also allow smaller Mac-based studios that use more inexpensive 2D packages like After Effects to move up without having to move away from Mac in the process. Plus, there's obviously huge opportunities for incorporating stripped down versions of Shake's features into Apple's current iMovie, iDVD, iPhoto lineup, or even into Final Cut. I agree with the other post that Apple needs to buy Discreet next, but this is a great acquisition.

[cmoney]

Originally posted by mikedman_ak
This is great unless Apple, in its excitement over OSX neglects those studios who already use shake. If an effects house like weta, with its heavy investment in serious linux hardware, dosen't want to jump into Mac land then apple should respect that and continue to develop the software for other platforms.

If played right this purchase could give apple a shot in the arm with Hollywood.... if not it could really bite them in the a**.

Respect is good and all, but I think Apple would be fools if they still maintained feature-parity with the OS X version. This is obviously a move to get Macs in the pro-film/video market and they're not gonna be successful at that unless they make Macs the system everybody lusts after.

Maybe Apple's taking a page from Microsoft's book: embrace and extend! Buy up all the great video software and stop making it on PCs! Then provide great new features and integration so people forget that PCs were once an option. Sounds like a plan to me.

[mac15]

they should ban pc from doing video editing
because damn they suck

[ipiloot]

Slowly, but steadily Apple will more-andmore target SGI's business.

If it continues this way, SGI will be in big trouble in two years (actually it is already, but not because of Apple)

[amichalo]

Originally posted by ipiloot
Slowly, but steadily Apple will more-andmore target SGI's business.

If it continues this way, SGI will be in big trouble in two years (actually it is already, but not because of Apple)

Weren't there rumors two or three years ago that SGI would be purchased by Apple or by Red Hat (the Linux people)?

[abe]

I'd love to see an application like the mentioned iAnimation.

Imagine, with the power of MP G5s in the near future, create your own little "A Bug's Life" animated movie...

[crassusad44]

Will this mean Final Cut Pro 4 on steroids? :D
Hope so!!!! :D :p :D

[mymemory]

Well, looks like there is a big problem between Adobe and Apple. Premiere is out the map after Final Cut Pro, and let me tell you FCP is easy as hell. Is now the turn for After Effects? Maybe is happening again like Director with Flash... "We can make the same thing, more simple and with vectors". Is time to simplify things. After Effects can be easyer now days.

About SGI, Apple is pointing that direction, specially to the O2 and Indigo market. Apple is really working on doing network rendering, besides Apple has more aplications than SGI and a bigger market. Apple wants to take over the industrial design market.

The next step could be Photoshop may be.

[OSeXy!]

This makes me really start to believe there is a 'next rung' of Apple workstation on the way for pro users.

The 'rack-mount' idea which has been batted around seems to make sense with PPC's/OS X's multiprocessing capabilities. Combine that with G5 64-bit technology and I see scalable racks of shared G5s with slots filled to match the users' needs and depth of cheque book.

That strategy, if workable, would get Apple a new generation of pro users.

(just had a look at their website http://www.nothingreal.com/ to find out more, but all you get is this rather coy message:

"Please be patient while we make some changes to our web site.

We should be back online in a few days.

Thank you."

I'll bet there'll be some changes!)

[Unregistered]

Don't forget Jobs owns Pixar. Renderfarms of Macs? It could happen.

Also don't forgot OSX is based on NetInfo. Netinfo makes it very easy to manage large banks of machines from the perspective of admins. Basically it can be as simple as dropping in a new machine and turning it on.

[Unregistered]

After the G4 speedbump last month, this wouldn't be the first time that Apple offered us Nothing Real. :D

[mikedman_ak]

Originally posted by cmoney


Respect is good and all, but I think Apple would be fools if they still maintained feature-parity with the OS X version. This is obviously a move to get Macs in the pro-film/video market and they're not gonna be successful at that unless they make Macs the system everybody lusts after.

Maybe Apple's taking a page from Microsoft's book: embrace and extend! Buy up all the great video software and stop making it on PCs! Then provide great new features and integration so people forget that PCs were once an option. Sounds like a plan to me.

If apple pulls the plug on the linux version right away companies like weta will probably never buy anything from them again. Until the OSX version supports render farms, and the other advanced features the linux version supports now Apple would be foolish to leave their new customers hanging.

[DarthMoridin]

This sounds really good to me. If Apple puts out a killer OS X version of Shake (iShake anyone?) it will bring more converts to the platform. They'll probably also at some point release another consumer app using the technology, or enchance iDVD/iMovie with it. This might make Adobe mad, but I for one believe that Apple probably has a Photoshop killer floating around Cupertino. Given how FCP blew premiere out of the water and is now starting to tread on After Effects territory, I would wager that an Apple image editor would blow everything else away. They already had some editing in iPhoto that they dropped because of an Adobe fit.

[Unregistered]

Check out Animation Master at http://www.hash.com/products/am.asp

and this little movie

http://www.hash.com/ftp/pub/movies/macintoshi.mov

[Unregistered]

Macromedia Final Cut+Astarte+Spruce+Nothing Real+Unix=The missing link in the convergence of many major media industries. The black art is now in the hands of the masses, but are they up to it?

From a quick read of all our posts it seems we would rather jaw, surf and dream about processor speed than learn how to write and direct like the masters.

[networkman]

good point

your computer is your paintbrush and that is all

now repeat that with me... unless you want to become a techie like me and get paid to fix "paintbrushes" instead of making art

[Unregistered]

Don't expect a pixar renderfarm of macs, pixar is buying some 200 IBM machines running linux, to phase out their Sun's. I'd give a link to the article but its on IBM's intranet.

[Unregistered]

Mac-users think it's "cool" that Apple stiffles competition and drops versions to other operating systems? Yikes, Apple and it's users are even more disgusting than microsoft and the win-idiots...

[Joey2000]

OK...

A: cross platform support..
Apple will keep supporting at minimum. The Linux Version and IRIX version (untill SGI keel over as they will)... the NT version is another shakier matter... one side of the argument is many people who run it now have it NT will want it to stay... but they can very eaisly (and for free) move to the Linux version... Tremor on the other hand (the expensive version) is only NT based... so thats a bit shakier (no pun intended).....

but one of the reasons big houses like Shake is because its CROSS PLATFORM...

and you have to think about the investment big places like Weta have in the software...
Weta has 90 something GUI licences.. 90 x AUD$20000... total... a LOT of Cash... plus they whole 2D production pipeline for the next 2 movies rests on it...

the PR value of this to apple is massive also... mark my words apple.com will have LOTR on its front page in the next 12 months...


B: iShake....
ok... there will never be a consumer compositing program... ..aww but they have iMovie blah blah...
Sorry, bu compositing is just TOO DAMN HARD for the consumer... it aint going to happen... what would be the point anyway... hey now mom and pop can comp little jonny over a different background.."look, were in Dellawere"
stupid idea.. and apple would know this...

apple can only just make video editing easy enough for joe public to get their heads around... video editing is by far the EAISEST part of the post pipline... Compositing is a very hard, timeconsuming technical excercise..

C: apple buying discreet also...
OK.. while getting Cleaner back would be cool...
NO.
Discreet make crappy old monster machines... people only still use them because monkey ass advertising agency clients think are cool..
anyone who actually composites knows shake and other next gen programs kill it..

apple made the right call here...

D:Apple rolls Shake into FCP.
perhaps.. some features/code.
but Shake is a completely different type of program.. its like Word vs InDesign.. they both deal with text, and do some of the same things... but completely different types of programs


....

the way i see it the most likely course of action is Apple ports Shake (nothing real have been working on this since January 2001 so this may already be done)

they will put the apple touch on the interface (something that would help Shake, but the current inteface isnt bad by anymeans)

Tremor (the highend turnkey version running on NT with HD IO) will cease to exist in its current form..
its functionality (EDL conform etc) will be rolled into Shake... and instead of being a turn key system it will be scalable in the same vein as FCP (DV IO out of the box, the rest depending on extra hardware, HD SDI etc) all from the same base package..

perhaps most importantly it will get an Apple price tag... bringing it down from AUD$20000 to between AUD 1k and 5k

they will sell a ship load because people already respect the program... but the midrange and lowend (read AE and combustion buyers) balk at the price...

They will kik ass.... and all will be good in the world....

[thedude]

Hmm...

I've got to tellyou, I'm not sure about abandoning the other platforms. Shake is great and they were supposed to have an osX version out this year (according to their website and at siggraph) but to shaft all the other companies that have spent some serious money on seats for the program, i don' tknow...

It would be a big error on apples part to hack the shake code and put it into their next prosumer software release. Besides, it's a node based composite package. Different philosophies. It would be even better if they could just get Maya up to speed with the other platforms and get Steve to pull some of his weight at Pixar and get renderman back on the mac. If the rumors that Tremmor dev. is being stopped, that would seem like such a waste of cool tech.

NR's websight is down too, so it'll be interesting to see it changed to "Apple's Shake and Tremmor, if you don't have macs, too bad..."

[Unregistered]

Check out http://www.highend3d.com/shake/archive/sp.2d?mail_id=1838 - it is a post from Louis Cetorelli of Nothing Real about the buyout. Seems to be the only words publicly so far.

[Unregistered]

Who knows right now, but this might be like when SGI bought out Alias|Wavefront. At that time Alias|Wavefront only made products for SGI/IRIX. But as a subsidirary A|W has remained doing their own thing and what is best for their software (Maya now), now on IRIX, NT, Linux, MacOSX.

I wish we could get some sort of details on this buyout, but I assume that it might go something like that. Since Maya is now on MacOSX and you can now have Shake and Maya together... Apple might make its way back into visual effects studios. The real question is why would Apple want to take on visual effects as it has been declining in the last few years (speaking on a high end level).

3dguy

[Unregistered]

I think I see a plan here, hmmmm

Apple buys Shake, stealthily including parts of it in other Mac software
Hmmm, yes
Pixar, working on its next big film needs a serious render farm.
The picture becomes clear.

The entire Mac world, one big processor for Pixar, all working in the background without our knowledge!!!

[Unregistered]

I think I see a plan here, hmmmm

Apple buys Shake, stealthily including parts of it in other Mac software
Hmmm, yes
Pixar, working on its next big film needs a serious render farm.
The picture becomes clear.

The entire Mac world, one big processor for Pixar, all working in the background without our knowledge!!!

[748s]

how pleasant to see some computer users squealing like stuck pigs because their platform of choice is under threat. now you know what it feels like. deal with it, don't come crying to these forums with your sob story. apple is coming on through, if you don't like it get out of the way.

[Unregistered]

Originally posted by Joey2000
but one of the reasons big houses like Shake is because its CROSS PLATFORM...

And this is the very reason why Apple will completely phase out the other platforms over time. Maybe not immediately, so as not to upset some existing customers, but they MUST do this. Why? Because as long as the software is cross-platform and has feature parity across all systems, as Shake does now, there is no legit reason why any customer would switch over to OS X to run Shake. Especially if they have an investment already in other platforms. I don't think Apple is interested in selling a few copies of $10,000 software to a few dozen elite VFX houses who can afford it - that would be a huge waste of their time and money. No, they want A) to sell something more "mass-market" (think Final Cut Pro) and B) they want to make people switch over to the Mac. That can't be done with them selling Shake as-is.

Plus, many VFX houses have hard-core "IRIX-heads" who are almost as fanatic about Unix as us Mac folks are about Macintosh :) They won't switch if Apple keeps catering to them by keeping the software on their platform, and it's those people who need to be dragged kicking and screaming into the next phase of visual effects software, IMHO. It's time for this kind of software to be moved into the hands of more people, instead of just those who can afford it. Compositing is complex, but there really is no reason for the current insane prices to be charged anymore as long as hardware is not the determining factor.

As long as companies like Weta can keep their existing pipeline intact for a short while, they won't be too upset. Apple can phase out the other platforms over time, and Weta can consider moving the pipeline over to something new, which is ALWAYS an option at VFX houses (they're always checking out the latest and greatest software, hoping that it will improve their pipeline). They'd especially be interested if they can get something that improves things for their artists and costs less, entirely possible if Apple offers the software at a better price, bundled with their hardware and drops the "per-station" network rendering fee and makes it free like Discreet does.

B: iShake....
ok... there will never be a consumer compositing program... ..aww but they have iMovie blah blah...
Sorry, bu compositing is just TOO DAMN HARD for the consumer... it aint going to happen... what would be the point anyway... hey now mom and pop can comp little jonny over a different background.."look, were in Dellawere"
stupid idea.. and apple would know this...

It's too hard because the programs available to do it are too hard. I think there are ways to make compositing much easier, maybe not "iComp" easy, but certainly better than reading a flowchart and connecting/reconnecting tiny little nodes all the time. As much as I admire Shake, it certainly won't win any awards for interface design, that's for sure. I hope Apple can do something that will make the process easier for everyone, including hard-core compositors, without "dumbing down" the whole thing, which I think is absolutely possible.

My predictions? I think they'll phase out the other platforms completely over the next few months, maybe a year for the Linux version, revamp the interface of Shake completely, and drop the price to around the same price as FCP, maybe slightly more ($1000-$1300 US). They'll completely drop Tremor, and have Shake (or whatever it gets renamed to, the name "Shake" kind of sucks IMHO) do the same I/O features with Firewire as standard and upgradeable with hardware like CineWave and such for doing uncompressed SD and HD.

[cryptochrome]

We've been assuming that shake/tremor will be either rolled into Final Cut Pro, or ported with a mac touch. Actually that's pretty much a shoo-in. But what if there's more? What if they're going to use this technology in an iApp? Consider the possibilities:

Video editing is a tricky business which iMovie can barely bring down to the consumer level. 2D compositing is a very technical matter which is right out. Just making the separate layers of video requires specialized photography using color keying. But I saw an interesting article on Slashdot today (http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/02/09/050207&mode=thread&tid=152) which talks about a camera technology called 3DV that allows you to capture depth information in video in real time, allowing you to easily create depth masks. The technology is simple and could be put in a consumer level device. Such as, perhaps, an apple branded digital video/still camera. Suddenly 2D compositing and editing is just a matter of the right software and interface, rather than complicated equipment and sets.

Not only that, it may also be possible now to start doing (basic) animation at a consumer level. There was a recent movie called Waking Life (http://www.flatblackfilms.com/), made entirely on macs using a custom Quicktime program called Rotoshop, which has the distinction of being the first full-length independent animated film. It used rotoscoping with software interpolation (You draw the animation frame over a video frame to help you animate motion, then use software interpolation to fill in intermediate frames). All they needed was a wacom tablet, a reference video, and the right software (and some artistic talent of course). More complicated software could potentially do much more. iAnimate? Animation Studio Pro? It's not out of the question. 2D animation is one of the few video technologies Apple doesn't have it's hand in yet, and one of the most tedious and specialized by far.

I don't think Apple has actually gone this far yet. I'm not sure if they've even thought about it. But I think perhaps they should.

[3G4N]

> Appleshake anyone?

maybe iSmoothie

or just iSmooth...

[3G4N]

cool!! Shake's CLI is tcsh! just like OSX!

another reason to learn tcsh better...

more from the manual...
"Nothing reals .iff format is not the same as the Amiga format with
the same extension, although they share certain structural similarities.
The NR .iff format is licensed to A|W for use in Maya, which means
Shake is ideally suited to work with Maya. Since Shake deals with this
format internally, you will get best performance by maintaining your
intermediate images in the format as well. It can eb 8-, 16-, or 32-bits
per channel, as well as maintain logarithmic information, alpha, and Z
channels."

QT is/was only supported in the NT version... (imports img sequences).

just some intetesting tidbits...

[gregorypierce]

Hopefully if Apple is going to purchase something, they pick up a better modelling package than 3D Studio Max :)