MBP, heat and whine FIXED?!

[recoilfx]

alright, I followed Jean Cyril's advice on this thread:http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?messageID=2142250&#2142250 and did a AC5 replacement


so far, with 1hr of testing, i dont notice any heat problems.. the bar above the F keys is barely warm, the magsafe speaker side is warm, and the left palm side (with my seagate 7200rpm) is maxed out at 37C.... bottom is warm, definitely not hot.... whine is still there, but mostly gone, no more software hacks!!!

the only down side is that the fans kick in a lot earlier now.. and it can be LOUD... im gonna check it tomorrow.. to make sure that they are not vibration noise and that ive secured the screws tightly...

-Zinj

[Bunsen Burner]

I don't suppose you have any before and after temp readings, do you? An infrared temp gun? I would love to see someone do this and document the process; get some real empirical data.

Keep us posted.

BB

Edit: What did the thermal compound application from the factory look like? How good/bad, neat/sloppy was it? Any photos?

[recoilfx]

sorry i dont, but accordding to my sensors on my seagate, it usually ran at around 41-43c when just doing regular browsing, now its only around 34-37c

[Bunsen Burner]

Good news. Thanks for the reply.

BB

[dailo]

I find it very interesting that by just replacing the thermal compound on the chip could fix all of these problems. I would like to do it, but I am afraid of voiding my warranty =/. I know I have some AS5 somewhere...... how hard was it to get the heatsink off?

[mrichmon]

I find it very interesting that by just replacing the thermal compound on the chip could fix all of these problems. I would like to do it, but I am afraid of voiding my warranty =/. I know I have some AS5 somewhere...... how hard was it to get the heatsink off?

Looking at the take apart instructions on www.ifixit.com it looks like the machine has to be completely stripped down to get to the thermal paste. That is, remove the keyboard/trackpad, remove the screen, remove the hard drive and super drive, remove the logic board. (The relevant chips face down to the bottom of the case.)

[Kingsly]

(The relevant chips face down to the bottom of the case.)
Which is even more cause for worry, considering that the top case gets so hot!

[sam10685]

i just put my computer on top of an air conditioner and turn it on high.

[recoilfx]

the difficulty of taking it apart isn't very high... just make sure you tape down all the screws to a boar and label them.... if you are careful enough, i dont think apple would know that you've opened it.... i didn't see a seal anywhere... but still do it at your own risk...

i think its because AS5 conducts the heat to the heat pipes much better than the crap that Apple put on, so the that all the heat from the chips goto the proper place instead of being trapped and raising the overall temperature...


as far as the whine goes.... i have no idea.... but im not complaining :)

[dailo]

So you currently experience no whine at all and the heat above the function keys is much less noticable? If this is all holds true.... i think it might be worth it for me to try :)

Did you get the fans to stop blowing loudly?

the difficulty of taking it apart isn't very high... just make sure you tape down all the screws to a boar and label them.... if you are careful enough, i dont think apple would know that you've opened it.... i didn't see a seal anywhere... but still do it at your own risk...

i think its because AS5 conducts the heat to the heat pipes much better than the crap that Apple put on, so the that all the heat from the chips goto the proper place instead of being trapped and raising the overall temperature...


as far as the whine goes.... i have no idea.... but im not complaining :)

[generik]

i think its because AS5 conducts the heat to the heat pipes much better than the crap that Apple put on, so the that all the heat from the chips goto the proper place instead of being trapped and raising the overall temperature...


I haven't handled a MBP yet, but does it have vents in its casing where the steaming hot air can come out? :confused:

[TWEO]

I too have read the post about the thermal paste not being applied correctly and have boldly gone where only a few people have gone before :P I've removed the thermal grease that Apple applied and put a thin layer of regular no-name thermal grease from the shop around the corner on all three chips. After checking that the grease left a good (as in full size of the chip) impression on the heatsinks when I put the logic board back, I screwed everything back together and found myself having a perfect MBP with the heat issue totally gone. I couldn't hold my hand on the bottom or on the bar above the F-keys before carrying out this procedure, and now it's just lukewarm.

I don't have any exact readings of the temperature (no seagate drive), but I do know that the infrared thermometer (one for medical use that you'd normally stick in your ear) would give a reading of over 42 degrees celsius (107F) on the bar above the F-keys. I can't tell the exact temperature, because everything above 42 degrees is called "HI". I know that from time to time it wasn't possible to keep my hands on that bar for more than 5 seconds because of the heat.

Now the same thermometer reads 35 degrees celsius (95F) on that bar and the rest of the case is even cooler. The bottom temp doesn't rise above 37 degrees, while before the operation it was too hot too handle from time to time.

These readings are all done with AC connected, but on battery the same holds true: all temperatures are waaay lower than before. No readings on that, but I'm certain they are lower. The difference is really amazing.

I haven't handled a MBP yet, but does it have vents in its casing where the steaming hot air can come out? :confused:

It does, just like the Powerbook. The vents are close to the display hinge, so the heat is blown out just in front of the screen and to the back. The two vents on both sides, that were present on the G4 powerbooks, are gone now.

[recoilfx]

So you currently experience no whine at all and the heat above the function keys is much less noticable? If this is all holds true.... i think it might be worth it for me to try :)

Did you get the fans to stop blowing loudly?

yes, heat is much much less an issue than before... at times with AC charging, the notebook does get warm... but not hot... the area near the magsafe is the warmest area, the bar above the F keys is the second warmest area around, definitely comfortable to touch though.

as for the fans, it hasn't gotten any quieter... but i noticed that the right fan makes most of the noise, so i guess there is a quality variance with the fans... maybe you'd be lucky...

[jacg]

just make sure you tape down all the screws to a boar and label them....

I'm sure this would void the warranty. Taping screws to any sort of pig, wild or domesticated is not recommended.

:D

[dailo]

Alright, I am sold. I am going to try this for myself! Thanks.

[Moshiiii]

Does this solve the whine or just the heat?

[CanadaRAM]

i think its because AS5 conducts the heat to the heat pipes much better than the crap that Apple put on, so the that all the heat from the chips goto the proper place instead of being trapped and raising the overall temperature..
A number of tests have shown that Arctic Silver and other exotic compounds are no more efficient at conducting heat than no-name thermal paste compounds. So it is not an issue of the brand of paste.
The main problem being discussed at the Apple site is that the paste was improperly applied at the factory, and that removing and reapplying a thin, even layer of (any brand of) paste results in greater conduction of heat from the CPU to the heatsink.

[TWEO]

Does this solve the whine or just the heat?

It didn't solve the whine on my MBP.

[dailo]

Can the MBP power up with everything still tkaen apart? I plugged all the connectors back in, but it's not powering up at all. I am getting worried, please help!

[TWEO]

I haven't tried that, but I guess it should. I assume you have put the logic board back with all the screws in place ?

Which parts are "taken apart" at the moment ?

[dailo]

No screws, I just put it back in it's place and all connects hooked up. Wanted to make sure it powered on before securing it. The fans/hd power up but that's it. Plugging the AC adapter, the light doesn't turn on so that's seems to be the problem. Don't understand what could have gone wrong.

[TWEO]

Do you have a camera handy ? A picture would help a lot.

And you really should secure the screws of the logic board before powering it up. Otherwise the chips won't make contact with the heatsinks and the thermal diode in the processor will probably shut the computer down before it gets a chance to show anything on the display.

By the way: did you leave the display in place ? It would be near impossible to plug in those connectors when the display's detached from the body.

[dailo]

Good point I'll secure the board first. The display is still hooked up to it, I am going to reconnect and try again. I'll see if I can post some pictures.

[dailo]

When I plug in the AC adapter, it blinks a light orange. Anyone know what that means? It's very faint.

[Kingsly]

I don't have any exact readings of the temperature (no seagate drive), but I do know that the infrared thermometer (one for medical use that you'd normally stick in your ear) would give a reading of over 42 degrees celsius (107F) on the bar above the F-keys. I can't tell the exact temperature, because everything above 42 degrees is called "HI". I know that from time to time it wasn't possible to keep my hands on that bar for more than 5 seconds because of the heat.

My thermometer goes up to 50º and, well, it just kept going! :eek:

[TWEO]

When I plug in the AC adapter, it blinks a light orange. Anyone know what that means? It's very faint.

Sorry to say, but I have no idea what that means. Are you sure that the chips are making good contact with the copper heatsinks ? And are you sure the power connector (http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/85/images_large/41.jpg) is fully plugged in ?

[dailo]

I am positive, looks like there is a power problem :( :(. I was really careful when I was taking everything out, but it looks like I may have damaged something with the power supply or something. Even with just the AC plugged in I can't get the power to come on at all. Feel like such an idiot!!

[TWEO]

Really sorry to hear that. What happens if you put the battery in but don't connect the AC ?

[dailo]

Same thing, but if I push on the connector that goes from the battery to the boad the HD and fans start to move. Which is the reason why I believe the connector to the board is fine, but somewhere before that is goofed up.

[generik]

I offer to buy that busted machine off your hands as parts for a princely $100 :D

[TWEO]

I'm out of suggestions for now and am gonna get some sleep (1 AM here). Hope somebody drops by here with a solution or suggestion in the meantime. Hope your MBP will be fine when I get back tomorrow and if it's not, I hope you manage to get some pictures online.

Best of luck.

[MaTiCeK]

I'm no expert, but I suggest you try taking it apart once again, look at all the contacts carefully if something is damaged, then if nothing seems wrong, put it together once again.


To my question:

How many of have done this mode? I have a 3 days old w8613 MBP. And man is it hot. I'm thinkig of taking it back to the apple reseller and give him printouts of this thread with the pictures from ifixit and the one recoilfx made, give them a tube of AC5 and tell them to fix it for me, so that my warranty doesn't void.

[generik]

I'm no expert, but I suggest you try taking it apart once again, look at all the contacts carefully if something is damaged, then if nothing seems wrong, put it together once again.


I strongly recommend against this. What if he bungles up the job and ruins his Macbook Pro? I'd return the laptop under the claim of false advertising, after all Pro grade products are not supposed to hiss and whinge!

(Heck, for cameras Pro equipment are even weather sealed, but that's another matter altogether)

[Harryc]

Same thing, but if I push on the connector that goes from the battery to the boad the HD and fans start to move. Which is the reason why I believe the connector to the board is fine, but somewhere before that is goofed up.I have been building my own PC's for many years, with both Intel and AMD processors, so I speak from experience. If you did not torque down the T6 Torx screws on the Logic board before powering up, there is a very good chance that you fried your Intel Duo processor. As a previous poster mentioned, there is a thermal diode built into the cores that is supposed to shut the power down if the heat gets too high, but my experience shows that often it is not quick enough to avoid permanent heat damage to the core/s. By not torquing down these important screws, you negated the contact between the CPU/s and the heatpipe. One way to check for this problem, is to measure the temperature as close to the core/s as you can get a probe. If it is cool after being on for a few moments, they are dead. In addition, I would warn anyone attempting this 'fix' , not to do it if you do not have any computer building experience.

[dailo]

I've been building/taking apart computers for quite some time as well. I put pressure on the board before doing this, and I know that there was definately contact to the heatsink. Also the system never powered on, the fans never moved. I think it's still a power supply problem as when I hook it up to the AC I get the led to light, but it's very fait and doesn't charge the battery. Something there is still messed up. First time I've ever had a problem putting something back togeather, but I guess I picked a bad time to mess up.

I was quite suprised how poor the thermal application was when I took it out, so I would recommend this fix to anyone else, just be careful!

[excalibur313]

So what has happened in the meantime? I'm waiting on pins and needles!

[jimmie]

dailo, I'm joining up to the same camp you're in! Damn it. faint orange blinking..
I think I have to take appart all over again and need to make sure some plugs are secure... man, it's gonna take some time :(

[jimmie]

ok, finally it's in the order again. Let's see if it improves now..

[Krevnik]

I did the work on my own MBP... and it can still get pretty warm... BUT, it does properly turn on the fans when under heavy load (compiling/gaming). So overall, it is quite a bit cooler than before under load. Not so much when under a light/idle load though, as it seems that tripping the temp sensors drives down the temp to a point lower than idle. My guess is that the turn-off magic temp is much lower than the turn-on magic temp.

[Mojo67821]

So it is not an issue of the brand of paste.
The main problem being discussed at the Apple site is that the paste was improperly applied at the factory, and that removing and reapplying a thin, even layer of (any brand of) paste results in greater conduction of heat from the CPU to the heatsink.

Is this issue being raised with Apple? Because personally there is no way in hell that I'm opening up my 2,500 dollar computer and doing this procedure. I give anyone credit who has the balls to do this, even if it is "simple."

My question is, if this is becoming a documented problem, isn't it possible to take this up with Apple and have them fix it themselves?

I would really like to contact them and send them some of this evidence so that they can fix mine. What do you guys think?

[excalibur313]

Is this issue being raised with Apple? Because personally there is no way in hell that I'm opening up my 2,500 dollar computer and doing this procedure. I give anyone credit who has the balls to do this, even if it is "simple."

My question is, if this is becoming a documented problem, isn't it possible to take this up with Apple and have them fix it themselves?

I would really like to contact them and send them some of this evidence so that they can fix mine. What do you guys think?

The problem a forum member on the offical macbook forums ran into is that the repair person didn't want to follow instructions off the internet because it could be used to "frame apple" if anything went wrong. Maybe the guy was in a grouchy mood but I don't know how many geniuses would just crack open a mbp just to remove some thermal paste. Although I sure hope they do soon!

[Mojo67821]

The problem a forum member on the offical macbook forums ran into is that the repair person didn't want to follow instructions off the internet because it could be used to "frame apple" if anything went wrong. Maybe the guy was in a grouchy mood but I don't know how many geniuses would just crack open a mbp just to remove some thermal paste. Although I sure hope they do soon!

Well I understand that. But if the support people (who work directly for Apple, not the "geniuses") know how to fix the computers, they should know enough to reapply the paste right without instructions from the internet?

I wouldn't take it to my local store, but it would stand to reason that this wouldn't be beyond the comprehension of someone FIXING MACS directly for Apple.

Can you give me a link to that forum? I'd like to get in on this conversation.

[Mojo67821]

nevermind...I found it. I'm just lazy sometimes :)

Here's the MacBookPro support forums if anyone else is interested:

http://discussions.apple.com/category.jspa?categoryID=190

[Mojo67821]

Alright, after doing even MORE reading on this topic, I'm convinced that having the paste reapplied will help my temperature issue, and help protect the inside of my MBP.

Apparently Apple has lawyers trying to pressure people into taking down pictures of the mis-applied thermal paste.

I want to find a computer store, and just have them do it to me. They recommend the local "Apple Service Provider". Does anyone know how I can find mine? (NOT my local apple store)

Also, do you think CompUSA will do something like this for me?

[Krevnik]

Alright, after doing even MORE reading on this topic, I'm convinced that having the paste reapplied will help my temperature issue, and help protect the inside of my MBP.

Apparently Apple has lawyers trying to pressure people into taking down pictures of the mis-applied thermal paste.

I want to find a computer store, and just have them do it to me. They recommend the local "Apple Service Provider". Does anyone know how I can find mine? (NOT my local apple store)

Also, do you think CompUSA will do something like this for me?

Apple Service Providers will also likely say no. I tried to talk to a couple and got turned down as something like this is just sent into Apple anyways. CompUSA /might/... but they might be in the same boat as any other Apple Service Provider.

[dailo]

Even if you brought it in they'd probably look at the technician manual and the manual tells them to just glob it on so that might not help. I'd suggest waiting it out as it seems to be getting some attention from apple so maybe they will do something about it.

I've done it myself and it does in fact keep it cooler so I don't see why Apple would ignore this fact and not keep its customers happy. It's a simple fix for them.

[Soisauce001]

My MACBOOK was hot... BURNING hot when I placed it on my lap.. I took it in a couple of times and the Apple people said that it was normal. I said BS.. But they weren't much help.. Especially since I couldn't get a reading for HOW hot it exactly was internally..

Then my friend recommended two things.. Temperture monitor.. and speedit.kext. I rand them this morning and my MBP was running at a 48C ... THAT'S FREAKING HOT.. that's 118 F..

Prior to taking the temperture reading my MBP was on a cooling pad with fans.. But I took it off and ran various apps for about half an hour... i took the reading and my HDD was 48C and my CPU was at 66C (according to speedit.kext). HOT..

I finally decided to take matters into my own hands.. I came across that article that talked about thermal grease.. I followed the instructions.. openned up my MBP... AND SURE ENOUGH there was GLOBS of that stuff all over the three chips.. I MEAN A LOT.. I cleaned it up.. re-applied thermal grease and used a razor blade to spread it out evenly.. Put everything back together..

Ran all the apps for half an hour and i'm sitting pretty at 37C... that's an 11degree C drop! .. that's insane.. it's warm.. BUT not burning hot.. I can leave it on my lap and not fear burns..

For those of you are attempting to open up your MBP, remember BE CAREFUL.. this is not for the faint of heart. especially with at 2k machine.

[dailo]

What CPU do you have, where is your laptop sitting in, how is the temperature in the room where your MBP is. 37 is pretty low, mine idles around 45C, I was wondering if I could get it any lower hehe. I am using AS5 and I have a 2.16.

[Soisauce001]

What CPU do you have, where is your laptop sitting in, how is the temperature in the room where your MBP is. 37 is pretty low, mine idles around 45C, I was wondering if I could get it any lower hehe. I am using AS5 and I have a 2.16.

I have a 1.83... 1gig ram... 80 gig HDD.. my laptop was sitting on my desktop... I live in S. California.. it's about 62 F... It's been on since i last posted it.. I've been watching tv on it and it's now at 39 C.. and I used AS5... I think spreading it evenly might have helped dissipate the heat evenly... I dunno..

[TWEO]

dailo, good to hear you got your MBP working again after all.

My MBP (1.83) is running idle on AC at around 50 degrees celsius according to speedit.kext (kextstat reports it as being version 1.0.0d1). Ambient temperature is around 20 degrees celsius (68 degrees fahrenheit).

[dailo]

Thanks TWEO. Yeah just turned out to be a cable that was not seated properly, I probably reconnected everyything ten times but the ribbon cable near the power supply needs to be connected very very carefully I guess.

Anyways my MBP is running so much cooler, after a few hours of use my MBP would normally heat up including the bar. Now there is minimal heat on the bars or the palm rests. So great, I hope Apple addresses the issue.:p

[Mojo67821]

Then my friend recommended two things.. Temperture monitor.. and speedit.kext. I rand them this morning and my MBP was running at a 48C ... THAT'S FREAKING HOT.. that's 118 F..



I just started running temperature monitor. It only seems to be giving me readouts for my toshiba hard drive though... is that what I want? Can I get a readout for the processor?

Found my answer: hope this helps someone. For those interested, since I turned the fan off on my targus laptop cooling pad, the temp of the smart drive has risen 5 degress celcius in about 5 minutes.

"A: Unfortunately there are some specific Macintosh systems which don't allow that sensor values can be read out by a normal application program. There are two different cases:

The computer uses a self-contained cooling control system. The hardware itself controls its own monitoring. No transfer of data from the sensor to the operating system is possible because there is no bus connection between the sensor and the actual computer.
The computer contains sensors accessible via a data bus, but cooling control is independent of Mac OS X. Apple does not provide any device drivers which would allow application programs to get data from the sensor. Only the firmware or a closed part of the operating system core has access to sensor data.
In both cases, it is not possible to develop an application program which could read out sensor values. The following Macintosh systems are affected by this problem:

PowerBook G4 Titanium (all models)
eMac (all models)
iMac G4 (all models)
Mac mini (all models)
Note that Intel-based Macintosh systems use a special mix of the mentioned monitoring techniques: Mac OS X only uses the load sensor of the graphics chip for thermal management. This sensor can be displayed by Hardware Monitor without any problems, it is however not displayed by Temperature Monitor, because this sensor does not measure temperature.

All other sensors in Intel Macs are controlled by special hardware working independently of the operating system, the Apple System Management Controller. This device has not been disclosed by Apple. There are neither drivers for Mac OS X, nor any documentation, and all details related to the function of this chip have been "censored" by Apple in the source code of Darwin. For this reason it is currently impossible that any application program could get readings from this chip. "

[Pilgrims Pro]

I would love to try this fix on my MBP, but I honestly don't have the guts. Hopefully Apple will own up to their mistake and take care of the problem.

[FritzTheWonderM]

Play with this before and after:
http://www.bresink.com/osx/TemperatureMonitor.html

[MS bulldog]

i'm new to macs, but why is everyone doing this type of "fix" on such a new product? i understand this is a rev.1 attempt with intel. will apple not do this repair? it just seems extreme for users to open up their $2500 laptop and apply grease to the cpu instead of seeking out repair under warranty.

[Soisauce001]

i'm new to macs, but why is everyone doing this type of "fix" on such a new product? i understand this is a rev.1 attempt with intel. will apple not do this repair? it just seems extreme for users to open up their $2500 laptop and apply grease to the cpu instead of seeking out repair under warranty.

All Apple does is say they'll send it back to the tech's to fix it.. they send it in and you wait a week or two before you can get it back.. They still apply the same amount of GOOP on the CPU because their official repair manual says so, contrary to what many are saying about putting TOO much thermal grease. Problem won't be fixed because Apple won't own up to the fact that they used too much thermal grease and applied it very sloppily..

When I reapplied the thermal grease.. I took a razor blade and spread the grease evenly and I applied a smaller amount of grease.. I wanted to make sure it was spread neatly and that it didn't spill over into other areas.. After I did it my MAC averages 38C idle.. Which is really good.

[alep85]

All Apple does is say they'll send it back to the tech's to fix it.. they send it in and you wait a week or two before you can get it back.. They still apply the same amount of GOOP on the CPU because their official repair manual says so, contrary to what many are saying about putting TOO much thermal grease. Problem won't be fixed because Apple won't own up to the fact that they used too much thermal grease and applied it very sloppily..

When I reapplied the thermal grease.. I took a razor blade and spread the grease evenly and I applied a smaller amount of grease.. I wanted to make sure it was spread neatly and that it didn't spill over into other areas.. After I did it my MAC averages 38C idle.. Which is really good.

I don't know if that's true, buckaroo. The Apple Store guy I gave my MBP to said they were getting a lot of complaints and were fixing them. Considering the whole IDEA for changing out the thermal grease came from an Apple Tech Support Internal Manual, I would THINK that they're on it.

Also, they should be replacing my battery with a fixed one, as the first ones have sporadic problems (incorrect time remaining reporting, and quick loss of overall capacity)

I probably get mine back on Monday, so I'll let you know if they've really fixed the problem.

[Soisauce001]

I don't know if that's true, buckaroo. The Apple Store guy I gave my MBP to said they were getting a lot of complaints and were fixing them. Considering the whole IDEA for changing out the thermal grease came from an Apple Tech Support Internal Manual, I would THINK that they're on it.

Also, they should be replacing my battery with a fixed one, as the first ones have sporadic problems (incorrect time remaining reporting, and quick loss of overall capacity)

I probably get mine back on Monday, so I'll let you know if they've really fixed the problem.


Yeah.. that's exactly what the apple store told me... the problem is that they said they would switch out the logi board and that's it...

And I don't know where you got the idea that the Apple Tech Support Internal Manual came up with the idea of switching out the thermal grease.. Have you read throught it.. I have.. It's been leaked all over the internet..

this is a screen shot right out of the manual:

http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/7541/lol1qe.jpg

I don't know about you but that looks like a lot of thermal grease to put on?? If this picture is the standard ummm God knows what ungodly amount they are putting on each MacBook Pro they fix..

Hey i'm open to further discussion.. if you know of another Apple Tech Support internal Manual, please be sure to share.. In fact if you want a copy of the one I have I can email it to you.. I can't post the link cuz Apple already threaten to sue another forum for posting it.. Good luck with your MBP..

[vgoklani]

the whine has not been fixed; I wonder, can people hear this on either the iMac or mac mini?

[alep85]

Yeah.. that's exactly what the apple store told me... the problem is that they said they would switch out the logi board and that's it...

And I don't know where you got the idea that the Apple Tech Support Internal Manual came up with the idea of switching out the thermal grease.. Have you read throught it.. I have.. It's been leaked all over the internet..

this is a screen shot right out of the manual:

http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/7541/lol1qe.jpg

I don't know about you but that looks like a lot of thermal grease to put on?? If this picture is the standard ummm God knows what ungodly amount they are putting on each MacBook Pro they fix..

Hey i'm open to further discussion.. if you know of another Apple Tech Support internal Manual, please be sure to share.. In fact if you want a copy of the one I have I can email it to you.. I can't post the link cuz Apple already threaten to sue another forum for posting it.. Good luck with your MBP..

Yeah, I see what you mean. I get it back today most likely, so I'll let you know what they did to repair it, and if it did anything to fix the problems. My hope is that they've started listening to their customers in the last week or two and have done things differently. I really don't want to have to open my MBP myself, I am a computer tech at both my university and Best Buy so I could do it, just don't want to risk voiding the warranty I paid so dearly for. Keep hope!

[excalibur313]

Well I just got my macbook and it seems to run between 54C and 60C under minimal mode. The whine isn't too bad, I can hear it from time to time with the power adapter on but as soon as it runs on the battery it gets a lot louder and starts going in and out? Is that normal? Has anyone figured out a way to turn on the fans more so that I can cool this puppy down?

[Soisauce001]

Well I just got my macbook and it seems to run between 54C and 60C under minimal mode. The whine isn't too bad, I can hear it from time to time with the power adapter on but as soon as it runs on the battery it gets a lot louder and starts going in and out? Is that normal? Has anyone figured out a way to turn on the fans more so that I can cool this puppy down?

http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=1864582&perpage=40&pagenumber=1

Check it out.. ***WARNING*** for the brave of heart only. ***WARNING***

[Coheebuzz]

Heat is ok on mine, i could say that it's no hotter than a *warm* cup of coffee after an hour of use. iStat widget shows my temp ranging from 40-45C.
I got it yesterday so maybe they have addressed the heat issues.

About the whine, i get it too from time to time and only when doing specific things like moving a window or dragging something with the mouse, but its not that annoying and i have to be in a completely silent room to hear it.

[excalibur313]

http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=1864582&perpage=40&pagenumber=1

Check it out.. ***WARNING*** for the brave of heart only. ***WARNING***

Yeah I don't know if I have it in me to take apart a computer I've had for only a few hours. I've built desktop PCs before but this is more complicated. The thing is that all I really care about is the temperature my lap feels. That means that I would be happy if I could just figure out a way to get the fans to turn on earlier. It isn't as good of a fix because the processor will still retain more heat but whatever, it should be able to handle up to 100C, its just my lap that cannot.

[excalibur313]

Heat is ok on mine, i could say that it's no hotter than a *warm* cup of coffee after an hour of use. iStat widget shows my temp ranging from 40-45C.
I got it yesterday so maybe they have addressed the heat issues.

About the whine, i get it too from time to time and only when doing specific things like moving a window or dragging something with the mouse, but its not that annoying and i have to be in a completely silent room to hear it.

What is the beginning or your serial number? Because mine just came today and I think my pants might be on fire. (Mine is W8613)

[Soisauce001]

Yeah I don't know if I have it in me to take apart a computer I've had for only a few hours. I've built desktop PCs before but this is more complicated. The thing is that all I really care about is the temperature my lap feels. That means that I would be happy if I could just figure out a way to get the fans to turn on earlier. It isn't as good of a fix because the processor will still retain more heat but whatever, it should be able to handle up to 100C, its just my lap that cannot.

Well.. Another solution I could recommend for keeping your lap from burning and for you future kids from dying, is for you to use a couple of towels on your lap..

The other recommendation is for you is to go out and get something like this..

http://www.compusa.com/products/product_info.asp?product_code=306230&pfp=SEARCH

OK you don't have to go to Compusa.. infact don't.. but it online.. Compusa rips you off.. BUT... Look for something like that.. It'll help keep your MBP about 15 degrees cooler.. Which can make a big difference in the life of your laptop.

Good luck

[fowler.]

so the consensus on this is that it runs cooler, but the fans are louder?

[Krevnik]

Well.. Another solution I could recommend for keeping your lap from burning and for you future kids from dying, is for you to use a couple of towels on your lap..

The other recommendation is for you is to go out and get something like this..

http://www.compusa.com/products/product_info.asp?product_code=306230&pfp=SEARCH

OK you don't have to go to Compusa.. infact don't.. but it online.. Compusa rips you off.. BUT... Look for something like that.. It'll help keep your MBP about 15 degrees cooler.. Which can make a big difference in the life of your laptop.

Good luck

Don't get the Antec, get the Targus model they have in the store. The width of the MBP causes the bottom surface to make contact and create suction rather than airflow. The Targus model is a lot better about this on oddly-shaped laptops.

It still doesn't address the core issue of poor grease, which will cause heat to flow through the logic board more often, shortening the lifespan of the logic board, with or without the cooler.

[Soisauce001]

It still doesn't address the core issue of poor grease, which will cause heat to flow through the logic board more often, shortening the lifespan of the logic board, with or without the cooler.

I agree totally.. The cooling pad is better than NOTHING but then again it still doesn't solve your long term problem... Eventually your logic board will fry because of the heat..

Maybe you can walk in the Apple store, print out a copy of their manual and show them the amount of thermal grease that it says to use and then tell them that you don't want them to use that MUCH.. explain to them why.. Tell them you don't want to open your 2000 machine and void warrenty but you do think they should use less thermal grease.. Maybe that'll work..

If you B*tch enough maybe they'll be nice to you... i don't know.. I'm sorta sick of dealing with apple (On this issue)..

Don't get me wrong tho.. I still like Apple.. just not the way they are handling the MBP issues..

[iKat]

I got my MBP on Friday (5/5) and I've barely had any problems. After the firmware update, the "cpu whine" did begin.. but it was only loud enough for me to hear if I stuck my head down by the keyboard. Heat has not been a problem for me and my MBP averages between 35 and 40 C. As for any of the other whines, etc.. nothing. I am more than pleased with my MBP, and if there is an issue, I'm sure apple will get on it ASAP... hopefully. :)

[Mojo67821]

Heat is ok on mine, i could say that it's no hotter than a *warm* cup of coffee after an hour of use. iStat widget shows my temp ranging from 40-45C.
I got it yesterday so maybe they have addressed the heat issues.

About the whine, i get it too from time to time and only when doing specific things like moving a window or dragging something with the mouse, but its not that annoying and i have to be in a completely silent room to hear it.

I had read that the temperature sensor system on the MBP is INDEPENDENT of the OS, which means that you can not read it with any type of program. The only sensor that isn't is on the toshiba made hard drive. I have a program which is supposed to read all available sensors and that is the only one that it reads.

Do you know what IStat is reading from?

[Krevnik]

Maybe you can walk in the Apple store, print out a copy of their manual and show them the amount of thermal grease that it says to use and then tell them that you don't want them to use that MUCH.. explain to them why.. Tell them you don't want to open your 2000 machine and void warrenty but you do think they should use less thermal grease.. Maybe that'll work..

If you B*tch enough maybe they'll be nice to you... i don't know.. I'm sorta sick of dealing with apple (On this issue).

I have tried this with the Apple Store, and with 3rd party guys. Stuff like this is sent back for repairs, rather than done in-Store... and even then, the stores would need to get an exception from the repair center to get permission to do that, and to do it in the store.

So right now, the best options are to do it yourself (I did... worked out quite well), or to complain to AppleCare's call centers and get Apple to take an official stance other than "It is within spec".

[excalibur313]

I had read that the temperature sensor system on the MBP is INDEPENDENT of the OS, which means that you can not read it with any type of program. The only sensor that isn't is on the toshiba made hard drive. I have a program which is supposed to read all available sensors and that is the only one that it reads.

Do you know what IStat is reading from?

It's a firmware thing. A guy from applecare said that apple could come out with a firmware update that allowed you to control the speed of your fan. The program is just reading that info from the motherboard but the control mechanism to turn on at a certain temp is totally firmware based.

[Mojo67821]

It's a firmware thing. A guy from applecare said that apple could come out with a firmware update that allowed you to control the speed of your fan. The program is just reading that info from the motherboard but the control mechanism to turn on at a certain temp is totally firmware based.

Interesting. you mean that Istat can read the temps on my computer? I just installed it, and I'm getting all of the cpu readings, but nothing for fans/temps. Does anyone have any idea why?

I'd like to have some way to monitor my temp, with all of this overheating brewhaha going down. (yes I said brewhaha)

[Soisauce001]

hey if you want a temp reading on you MBP.. check this out... i was using Istat but it only measured my HDD.. This measures the processor temp.

http://macbricol.free.fr/coreduotemp/

Supposedly...

[scuzy]

i took apart my MBP and added the AS5 and i don't notice any temp difference
did i not put enough thermal compound on ? I cna seem to hear the fans are on is there a way to turn on the fan? Shouldi redo it again and apply more compound? I jsut put a small dap on each core and each sink area and i use a credit card to spread it all around. I also use my finger wrapped with plastic wrap to spread hte heat sink compoun on the the heat pipe.
anyone have any suggestiosn ? does it take a few cycled before hte AS5 kicks in ?

thanks

[excalibur313]

i took apart my MBP and added the AS5 and i don't notice any temp difference
did i not put enough thermal compound on ? I cna seem to hear the fans are on is there a way to turn on the fan? Shouldi redo it again and apply more compound? I jsut put a small dap on each core and each sink area and i use a credit card to spread it all around. I also use my finger wrapped with plastic wrap to spread hte heat sink compoun on the the heat pipe.
anyone have any suggestiosn ? does it take a few cycled before hte AS5 kicks in ?

thanks

So you applied the thermal compound as directed on their website, only using about the size of half a grain of rice? How hard did you torque down on the motherboard screws to ensure that it is a tight fit? (How does anyone know how much to do? It seems like the most important step.)

[Bunsen Burner]

i took apart my MBP and added the AS5 and i don't notice any temp difference
did i not put enough thermal compound on ? I cna seem to hear the fans are on is there a way to turn on the fan? Shouldi redo it again and apply more compound? I jsut put a small dap on each core and each sink area and i use a credit card to spread it all around. I also use my finger wrapped with plastic wrap to spread hte heat sink compoun on the the heat pipe.
anyone have any suggestiosn ? does it take a few cycled before hte AS5 kicks in ?

thanks

Well, you've done it wrong. The compound is applied to the chip die only. I placed a dot of the stuff about twice the size of the head of a pin on a corner of each die and spread it across and down the dies for even, thorough coverage. It takes a vanishingly small amount assuming proper die/heatsink interface. And make doubly sure there is no dust or other particles on the dies or heatsinks before applying the compound and reassembly. These directions are found at Arctic Silver's Site (http://www.arcticsilver.com/arctic_silver_instructions.htm).

Proper torque on the mainboard screws comes down to having the right feel and that usually comes with experience.

BB

[scuzy]

i redid the laptop while at work and now the temp is hovering at 38C to 45C
which is about right. Last night my MBP was at 60C with only 15% cpu utilization.

[fowler.]

are the fans kicking on more often, or what?

[Thidranki]

When I plug in the AC adapter, it blinks a light orange. Anyone know what that means? It's very faint.

I'm not sure about the MacBook Pro and your exact situation, but for me on my powermac it means that the battery is charging. Red = Almost Out, Orange = Charging/Not Full Green = Full

[Thidranki]

Does anyone know the difference in heat for the 15 and 17 inch computers? I'm currently trying to decide between the MBK and the iMac, and if the MBKs aren't perfect and overheat, I might stretch for the iMac.

[slyydrr]

I got about half-way into this the other day, and at the "fan" step, I backed out... I guess I got scared. I have 6 years of experiencing building desktops (probably a good 24 full PC builds under my belt, not to mention numerous simple upgrades) so it's not that I'm not knowledgable. I will give it a try again tonight and hopefully everything works out! I'll let you know what I find and I'll document before temps to compare with after temps.

[scuzy]

it really isn't too bad taking it apart. The first time around wa the hardest following hte ifixit guide really helps. The second time i opened it up to readd the artic silver i did it without even lookign at the guide since it was straight forward and i remember where all the parts are. The hardest thing is remmebering which screw goes where so i scotch taped it to a paper and that way i remember each screw.

[excalibur313]

it really isn't too bad taking it apart. The first time around wa the hardest following hte ifixit guide really helps. The second time i opened it up to readd the artic silver i did it without even lookign at the guide since it was straight forward and i remember where all the parts are. The hardest thing is remmebering which screw goes where so i scotch taped it to a paper and that way i remember each screw.

How much computer building experience do you have? Is it much harder than building a tower? Did you notice any seals that were broken in the process that applecare could figure out that you opened? How did you now how hard to tighten the motherboard? Did you have to use a torque measuring system?

[scuzy]

i've been messign with the insides of computers since i was 15 and i'm 30 this year. There isn't any seals. There are orange tape they use to tape dow nthe wires and there is a foild rubber foam they use next to the left speaker. But there isn't any seals that will say void if open. I think applecare can only tell if you really tighten the screws too tight and strip the heads.

[excalibur313]

i've been messign with the insides of computers since i was 15 and i'm 30 this year. There isn't any seals. There are orange tape they use to tape dow nthe wires and there is a foild rubber foam they use next to the left speaker. But there isn't any seals that will say void if open. I think applecare can only tell if you really tighten the screws too tight and strip the heads.

So for the motherboard you just tightened them until they stopped or how did you know when they were tight enough to make a secure connection but not too tight to break anything?

[scuzy]

i think that's a more of a personal judgement. I tighten it till it's secure and tight

[slyydrr]

So for the motherboard you just tightened them until they stopped or how did you know when they were tight enough to make a secure connection but not too tight to break anything?
My recommendation, tighten it tight, but not too tight. You shouldn't even once have the thought pass through your head "If I turn it just a smidge tighter, will I strip it?" If you're worried about that, then chances are you might even be a tad too tight already. You want it to be tight and secure, but not overtightened. Hopefully that helps.

[slyydrr]

Well, I finished the surgery. It went extremely well in terms of ease. That guide was brilliant, now I wait to see how effective it was. Before I was idling between 52-58C (I didn't do any extensive testing, but it should be enough to see if there's a noticeable difference), so hopefully this puts me a good 10C lower. I'll edit this post w/ results, and some wonderful pictures of just how ****** of a job they did w/ the thermal paste...

EDIT: I think I should have really taken the time to get some numbers before. Right now I'm sitting in the same range, but the entire laptop feels cooler to the touch. Even if the core is staying the same temperature, but the heat is disappating properly, that's perfect for me. So, unfortunately I have no numbers, but at the same time it DOES feel quite a bit cooler!

Also, keep in mind, I used AS3, not AS5. It's what I had around the house, and didn't want to goto the store.

[Mojo67821]

Well, I finished the surgery. It went extremely well in terms of ease. That guide was brilliant, now I wait to see how effective it was. Before I was idling between 52-58C (I didn't do any extensive testing, but it should be enough to see if there's a noticeable difference), so hopefully this puts me a good 10C lower. I'll edit this post w/ results, and some wonderful pictures of just how ****** of a job they did w/ the thermal paste...

EDIT: I think I should have really taken the time to get some numbers before. Right now I'm sitting in the same range, but the entire laptop feels cooler to the touch. Even if the core is staying the same temperature, but the heat is disappating properly, that's perfect for me. So, unfortunately I have no numbers, but at the same time it DOES feel quite a bit cooler!

Also, keep in mind, I used AS3, not AS5. It's what I had around the house, and didn't want to goto the store.

I'm using this "Core Duo Temp" program that someone told me about to get my temp. Does anyone know how accurate this is? It seems to jump around a little bit. I'm running between 50 and 57 whith a light load. I'd like to get a reading from the windows side, considering it runs much hotter when I'm in windows.

Is this temp range normal?

[PatrickF]

I'm using this "Core Duo Temp" program that someone told me about to get my temp. Does anyone know how accurate this is? It seems to jump around a little bit. I'm running between 50 and 57 whith a light load. I'd like to get a reading from the windows side, considering it runs much hotter when I'm in windows.

Is this temp range normal?
Mine runs between 55C and 65C under low load and up to a max of 85C to 90C under completely full load. The idle temperature doesn't seem excessive to me given the form factor and the quiet nature of the computer. It does get hot though but I tend to use my MBP on a desk or when I put it on my lap I have a big wooden chopping board inbetween. That's much more comfortable anyway as it keeps the laptop more stable.

My server PC idles at around 55C using the diode sensor with a big fan on it. Sure it's quite a bit cooler but it's also slower (old single core Athlon XP 2GHz) and has a huge heatsink with a big fan on it.

Where it does change is under load - my server maxes out at about 62C or so under full load, which is much better than the 85C max on the MBP!

[Krevnik]

Mine runs between 55C and 65C under low load and up to a max of 85C to 90C under completely full load. The idle temperature doesn't seem excessive to me given the form factor and the quiet nature of the computer. It does get hot though but I tend to use my MBP on a desk or when I put it on my lap I have a big wooden chopping board inbetween. That's much more comfortable anyway as it keeps the laptop more stable.

My server PC idles at around 55C using the diode sensor with a big fan on it. Sure it's quite a bit cooler but it's also slower (old single core Athlon XP 2GHz) and has a huge heatsink with a big fan on it.

Where it does change is under load - my server maxes out at about 62C or so under full load, which is much better than the 85C max on the MBP!

After re-applying the paste... when the MBP is running clamshell...

Idle: 48 C (45 C when lid is open)
Load: 63 C (SNES9x, Options Turned Up, Rosetta) (58 C when lid is open)

Now this is lid-closed, mind you, but that is much more in line with your server PC, is it not?

EDIT: Updated with a couple new numbers when the lid is /open/ this time (normal usage). Now, one can likely not compare numbers directly across two machines like this (since the temp sensor on the die varies from chip to chip by a couple degrees), but when we are talking differences in the 20C range, there /is/ a noticable difference.

[PatrickF]

After re-applying the paste... when the MBP is running clamshell...

Idle: 48 C
Load: 63 C (SNES9x, Options Turned Up, Rosetta)

Now this is lid-closed, mind you, but that is much more in line with your server PC, is it not?
Certainly looks better. I'm not saying that the temperatures of the MBP are great but I can bear them considering my PC's CPU has a huge beast of a heatsink and fan on top of it and the MBP is just 1" thick. I do have Arctic Silver in there though.

That noted I do believe that AS will bring down the temperatures once applied properly. Shame that wasn't done at the factory.