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MacMosher
Apr 27, 2006, 10:36 PM
Hey Guys,

Im not sure if Im in the proper category or not, I realize that there isn't much option for these programs on mac (I know theres still some PC people here aswell).

Ok so heres my question, I've recently been using alot of Unigraphics NX 3.0 in my Engineering degree, however alot of companies Im apply to for summer employment are using a more well known, less advanced, and cheaper programs such as AutoCAD.

Im looking to relearn some of the things Ive learned on UGS and transfer my knowledge to be able to be able to do the same things in AutoCAD. I know theres tutorials that I will go through If I don't get any answers here. But heres what Im looking for;

-Is there a sketcher application in AutoCAD? In UGS it's all I ever use before converting 2D to 3D, is there an equivalent?

-For converting 2D to 3D, is there all the same options Swept Bodies, Revolve, and Extrude(probably all have different names)?

-After converting to 3D, are there options such as subtract, union, or intersect?

-When drafting is there anyway to import a base veiw and then move the veiws around from that one to create the other views as in UGS?

Thats all I can think of for now, if I can think of anythign else I will post it. Hopefully theres somone on this section of the forum for "Graphical Design" in my terms, not just websites and business cards(nothing against).

Thanks,
Mark



Macky-Mac
Apr 28, 2006, 02:17 AM
... less advanced, and cheaper programs such as AutoCAD....k


how strange, Autocad is usually known as a more expensive program......

wPod
Apr 28, 2006, 11:39 AM
Hey Guys,

Ok so heres my question, I've recently been using alot of Unigraphics NX 3.0 in my Engineering degree, however alot of companies Im apply to for summer employment are using a more well known, less advanced, and cheaper programs such as AutoCAD.

Man, AutoCAD is expensive . . . how expensive is unigraphics NX?


-Is there a sketcher application in AutoCAD? In UGS it's all I ever use before converting 2D to 3D, is there an equivalent?

-For converting 2D to 3D, is there all the same options Swept Bodies, Revolve, and Extrude(probably all have different names)?

not sure what the sketcher is in unigraphics. but in AutoCAD everything is drawn in 2D first, then you use such actions as extrude or revolve to produce a 3D image. but ill tell you know, AutoCAD on its own is not very good at 3D. . . there are numerous packages that can be added to AutoCAD to help make the 3D better. AutoCAD is mostly a 2D drafting program that happens to do 3D.


-After converting to 3D, are there options such as subtract, union, or intersect?

AutoCAD does not handle 3D very well. there are a number of 3D specific commands, but I have found it easier to make all of the adjustments in 2D before extruding or makeing 3D. .. again this is from the basic AutoCAD package.


-When drafting is there anyway to import a base veiw and then move the veiws around from that one to create the other views as in UGS?


not really sure what this is in UGS.

AutoCAD is pretty simple to use, in my opinion, for drafting applications. My largest complaint is that it is mostly 2D based and the 3D capabilities are lacking. I much prefer a program such as Pro-E that is based off of 3D models that can translate that into a 2D drawing when needed. That being said, AutoCAD is used A LOT in engineering, so its always good to get some experience with it because you are likely to see it in the future.

MacMosher
Apr 28, 2006, 12:36 PM
how strange, Autocad is usually known as a more expensive program......
You have no idea, I know Autocad is expensive as hell, but this program has alot more to offer and trust me its worth more then me. It's only used by big compainies like car manufactuers (but its essential that I learn these things as Im studying Mechanical Engineering). Ill look up the price quote but I know for a fact that its more expensive.

MacMosher
Apr 28, 2006, 01:13 PM
Thanks for your reply wPod.

I really like how you specifiied "ill tell you know, AutoCAD on its own is not very good at 3D. . . there are numerous packages that can be added to AutoCAD to help make the 3D better. AutoCAD is mostly a 2D drafting program that happens to do 3D."

This is why UGS is so much more expensive, its because all the applications you'll need are built right in, there are no packages such as Mechanical Desktop that would go along with it. Things that are built in are; Assembly, Drafting, CAE: Structural Analysis, Motional Analysis, Optimization... etc.

Im sure theres much more that I haven't even begain to touch but thats all Ive learned so far.

Anyways, onto the comparision (once again I apologize for any miss spelt words, Im an engineer not an arts student ahaha).
but in AutoCAD everything is drawn in 2D first, then you use such actions as extrude or revolve to produce a 3D image.

Thats quite the same, in Sketcher its pretty much what the name suggest it would be the exact same thing as if you were to sketch one veiw of an object on peice of paper and then were able to reajust your lines to constrain them. Its really quite neat and my favorite feature of UGS.

AutoCAD does not handle 3D very well. there are a number of 3D specific commands, but I have found it easier to make all of the adjustments in 2D before extruding or makeing 3D. .. again this is from the basic AutoCAD package.
Does this hold true in such things as Mechanical Desktop?
I much prefer a program such as Pro-E that is based off of 3D models that can translate that into a 2D drawing when needed.

That sounds alot like the Drafting tool of UGS. I agree that AutoCAD is deffinitly lacking in the 3D modeling and thats largly why were learning complex programs such as UGS in school, it is predicted that AutoCAD is on the down slope because of there lacking capabilities in 3D modeling and analysis. I predict a simpler version of UGS will take over I think its called Solid Edge? and this program would be used by vast number of Engineering compainies and for the larger companies i.e. General Motors and such, would use the more advanced NX 3


Mark

wPod
Apr 28, 2006, 02:15 PM
Does this hold true in such things as Mechanical Desktop?


I do not have direct experience with mechanical desktop, just some HVAC 3D plug ins. i know with those im able to do different functions with pipe and duct work that would be similar to doing the same thing on a 3D model of a piece. (like extending a piece to fit)


That sounds alot like the Drafting tool of UGS. I agree that AutoCAD is deffinitly lacking in the 3D modeling and thats largly why were learning complex programs such as UGS in school, it is predicted that AutoCAD is on the down slope because of there lacking capabilities in 3D modeling and analysis. I predict a simpler version of UGS will take over I think its called Solid Edge? and this program would be used by vast number of Engineering compainies and for the larger companies i.e. General Motors and such, would use the more advanced NX 3

yeah, i originally learned using Pro-E and was able to switch to AutoCAD pretty quickly. its deffinitly better to learn with a 3D system. im guessing pretty soon even AutoCAD will find a way to do 3D well.

im an ME student as well. graduating in dec. the more CAD systems you can use and have on your resume by the time you graduate, the better!

After G
Apr 28, 2006, 02:30 PM
i'm an ME student as well. graduating in dec. the more CAD systems you can use and have on your resume by the time you graduate, the better!At that rate, you'll get hired as a cad monkey. :p

If you really like doing CAD, that's okay. But for me, it gets in the way of actually doing engineering. I guess I'd be better off as an analyst or manufacturer.

Let's see ... I have never seen anyone I know use AutoCAD. I've seen CATIA, Unigraphics NX, and Solidworks ... Solidworks quickly becoming what is in demand here.

Though I do have to say I liked Unigraphics a lot, it is $1000 per seat license. :eek:

MacMosher
Apr 28, 2006, 02:40 PM
Im glad to see some other Engineers on here ahah. I recently just got rid of my ibook and am looking to get a new intel one when they come out. Anyone ever have any trouble going through the engineering degree using macs (limited software, although Boot Camp is no available).

Anyways, I have never seen anyone I know use AutoCAD. I've seen CATIA, Unigraphics NX, and Solidworks ... Solidworks quickly becoming what is in demand here.

This is sounding promising.


If you really like doing CAD, that's okay. But for me, it gets in the way of actually doing engineering. I guess I'd be better off as an analyst or manufacturer.
Well, personally (I may not be done my degree and havent gotten into the feild but this is my perspective) I would like to have a grasp of how the product will behave under certain cercumstances, which is a large part of what were hired to do. CAD is a great tool for this cause you can make easy changes to a product before manufacturing it and realizing its not up to standards.

Plus you can optimize everything.

After G
Apr 28, 2006, 03:37 PM
For an engineering degree, it is completely unnecessary to have Windows or most of Office. I really believe the only real inconvenience for me was not having Excel. I didn't want to give MS my hard-earned money though, so I lived with it until OpenOffice came out.

I wrote most of my papers in LaTeX and Textedit. I would go to the lab to work on spreadsheets, and later used OpenOffice when it came out. So I guess now with OpenOffice things should be okay. For the actual engineering software, we usually accessed it through a Unix shell (compilers) or had labs where we could work, because the software we used was quite expensive.

I'll have to say CAD doesn't account for manufacturing difficulty. A large part of learning CAD in class was using it to design a product and then trying to have others make it. A big problem with design is that designers do not consider ease of manufacturability when making their designs. That is why you end up with CAD designers making things that are impossible to machine.

MacMosher
Apr 28, 2006, 04:32 PM
I'll have to say CAD doesn't account for manufacturing difficulty. A large part of learning CAD in class was using it to design a product and then trying to have others make it. A big problem with design is that designers do not consider ease of manufacturability when making their designs. That is why you end up with CAD designers making things that are impossible to machine.
This is true to an extent.If the Designer has the manufacturer in mind then it helps alot, however it doesn't by any extent get rid of any problems.

Im sure the more you work with CAD along side the manufacturers, the more you'll be able to graphically design objects that will be able to manufactured with ease. In the long run Im still very pro-CAD but to each his own.

After G
Apr 28, 2006, 07:23 PM
I'm not against CAD by any means ... just my experience with it this year is bad. The manufacturers on our team are held up by missing drawings. I can understand that not everyone has the same schedule, but still ...

QuantumLo0p
Apr 28, 2006, 11:50 PM
My only advice is to look for a position using NX. I'm not trying to be a CAD snob but rather a realist. If the software you use is important to you then your decision is very important. There is a short A list and NX is on it. Pro-E, Catia and Ideas are some of the others. Pro is excellent for part design but they don't much of anything else very well. Catia isn't bad but it doesn't import very well into other systems. Ideas is fairly good but since UGS bought SDRC, Ideas is slowly being swallowed by NX and soon will not exist. NX has a total Product Lifecycle Management solution and also very strong CAM functionality. Of course Pro-E is very common. If I were to look for another position I'd be looking at NX or Pro jobs.

It's pricey compared to midrange software such as SolidWorks but it's a top tier CAD/CAM/CAE platform. Mainly large, well established companies use it. I have been doing 3-d solid modeling and cnc programming in NX since it was Unigraphics v10 and currently I am using NX4. I think NX design is around $15K and a CAM package that includes design is around the low twenties. Of course there is also yearly maintenance and support but we've actually dropped all our Pro-E seats because the maintenance was so high.

Some companies using NX include: General Motors, 3M, Nissan, Donaldson, Adam Opel, Saab, Adam Aircraft, Andretti Green Racing, B.A.R. Formula 1, B/E Arospace, Delphi, Eclipse Aviation, Fuji Heavy Industries, Palm, Triumph Motorcycles, Seiko Epson, Joe Gibbs Racing and Hendrick Motorsports.


"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

QuantumLo0p
Apr 28, 2006, 11:59 PM
Sorry, I posted again. Newb I guess.

Injektilo
May 12, 2006, 06:41 AM
You may be interested to know that Apple and UGS will be announcing a Mac port of NX within the next few weeks...