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View Full Version : Political Correctness, this is how absurd it is.


Backtothemac
Feb 10, 2003, 03:07 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,78139,00.html


This article shows the kind of crap that you can get with political correctness. Unreal.

If I were the judge, I would dismiss the case, and make the sisters pay the court costs of SouthWest airlines.

SICK!

alex_ant
Feb 10, 2003, 03:48 PM
I agree 100%. I always thought it was "catch a tiger by the toe." Maybe that's the clean version.

Nipsy
Feb 10, 2003, 03:48 PM
Simple solution:

Raise the cost of filing a suit to $5000.

I think we'd see a lot less of the BS, and there would be some great fodder for the TV idiots like Judge Judy.

I failed a paper in college during the height of PC because I failed to use 'he/she'...only in Santa Cruz.

Dont Hurt Me
Feb 10, 2003, 03:54 PM
Another example of someone trying to get something for nothing! Maybe they should catch him by the toe

kettle
Feb 10, 2003, 04:00 PM
I think you'll find catching any endangered species by the toe is politically unsound if not incorrect.

Backtothemac
Feb 10, 2003, 04:05 PM
Wow! Alex and I agree on something! WOW!

uhlawboi80
Feb 10, 2003, 04:12 PM
that is just ridiculous. i am quite sure those women wont win...they have to prove intent and they cant/wont.

all the same, my moms mom used to use the other verion of that rhyme but that was in the 40s. and ive used the tiger version my entire childhood.

simply ridiculous, the racist version wasnt even the version probably being said when These women were kids.

id try to get sanctions against their lawyer...though they are hard to get these days.

Sun Baked
Feb 10, 2003, 04:17 PM
"Eenie, meenie, minie, moe; pick a seat, we gotta go."

Oh, boo hoo, what a crock... and they didn't say anything racist -- but that the rhyme has racist roots, so it should never be used.

You can bet they haven't been niggardly in their request for money.

[edit -- hope I used the dictionary version of the word correctly. ;) Do they don't even teach that word in school anymore?]

Taft
Feb 10, 2003, 04:47 PM
Originally posted by Backtothemac
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,78139,00.html


This article shows the kind of crap that you can get with political correctness. Unreal.

If I were the judge, I would dismiss the case, and make the sisters pay the court costs of SouthWest airlines.

SICK!

I don't know if this is as much a case of PC gone awry as it is litigation gone awry.

In any case its ridiculous. Like Alex said, I thought it WAS catch a tiger by the toe. I never knew the rhyme had racist history. If these sisters really believe that the woman was being racist in saying this, they are quite delusional.

Is it going to be the responsibility of everyone to remember the liniage of every poem, saying, etc. so they can be sure that what they are saying is not going to negatively impact the person they are talking to. This is ********** dumb. Big time.

Taft

Taft
Feb 10, 2003, 04:51 PM
Originally posted by Sun Baked


Oh, boo hoo, what a crock... and they didn't say anything racist -- but that the rhyme has racist roots, so it should never be used.

You can bet they haven't been niggardly in their request for money.

[edit -- hope I used the dictionary version of the word correctly. ;) Do they don't even teach that word in school anymore?]

You used it quite right. I don't know if they teach that word in school anymore. But the funny thing about it is that it doesn't have the same etymology as the nasty word some people associate with it (correct me if I'm wrong here). Didn't some politician get in trouble for using that word a while back?

Taft

macfan
Feb 10, 2003, 04:58 PM
Yes, a DC city employee got in a whole bunch of hot water over his use of the word "niggardly" to describe a budget. Indeed, it has Scandinavian, not Latin, roots. In addition, there has been at least one case where a school teacher was called on the carpet for teaching the word "niggardly."

If I were a judge and such a case came up before me, I would give them a chance to withdraw the case and promise never to do anything so stupid again. If they refused, I'd lock them and their lawyers in jail pending a hearing on contempt of court. It might take me a couple of days to get back to it!

beez7777
Feb 10, 2003, 05:08 PM
This truly is ridiculous. I don't even know what to say about something so incredibly stupid. I'm sure that when the flight attendant said the rhyme, her first intent was to offend a few of the passengers. I am so sick and tired of not only political correctness, but of people getting offended for the lamest reasons, and then suing people over it. grrrrrr.:rolleyes: :mad:

sturm375
Feb 10, 2003, 05:28 PM
Stick and Stones will break my bones, but words will get my pants sued off!:D

GeeYouEye
Feb 10, 2003, 05:29 PM
Until today, I never knew there was a racist history behind it. I suspect these people thought it was annoying, and planned to sue on the basis that Southwest was being extremely condescending towards its passengers (a less frivolous lawsuit, though they wouldn't have won on that either), and while doing research on it, stumbled across this particular piece of history, and decided to try and milk it for all it was worth. The worst part about it all, is that if the judge doesn't rule in their favor, he (er... he/she) will be called a racist, and it'll probably spark a race riot in their hometown. :(

DavisBAnimal
Feb 10, 2003, 05:30 PM
While I agree that suing the airline is ridiculous (and most likely selfish), I really don't think the girls were too out of line in being offended. While most people here would usually idenitify the rhyme as "catch a tiger", the classic version is still in use all over the place. I actually grew up knowing that saying (and thus avoiding it) before I ever heard "catch a tiger". Of course the flight attendant didn't mean to offend anyone, and was in no way trying to be racist, but if you had been rased hearing the phrase "Eenie, Meenie, Minie Moe - Catch a [don't want to say word] by the toe" and then heard someone make a variation on it, I'm sure you would be offended (and should be offended) no matter what your race.

Phrases and their meanings change all the time ("You suck" was once used by ancient soildiers while they sexually assaulted their victims), but for a phrase that is still alive today and was used so recently as a way of hurting people, it's important that we know its history, and have at least some sort of sympathy for people reminded of its original intent.

Now suing someone over the whole thing is crazy - all the girls needed to do was tell the flight attendant the way the phrase was initially used and I'm sure she would have made sure not to use it again, out of respect for many people, still living, who had to live through that whole ugly time.

Davis

rainman::|:|
Feb 10, 2003, 05:36 PM
Originally posted by Backtothemac
Wow! Alex and I agree on something! WOW!

i agree too, which i'll probably disavow if anyone ever asks :) this crosses the line from sensitivity to pointless.

pnw

uhlawboi80
Feb 10, 2003, 07:11 PM
come to think of it..i had some ancestors die in "the plague" so next time i hear some school girl singing ring around the rosy i am gonna sue her A$$ off. i mean, its a poem about the plague and her dancing around to it trivializes their deaths!

evill children:rolleyes:

Taft
Feb 10, 2003, 08:38 PM
Originally posted by DavisBAnimal
Phrases and their meanings change all the time ("You suck" was once used by ancient soildiers while they sexually assaulted their victims), but for a phrase that is still alive today and was used so recently as a way of hurting people, it's important that we know its history, and have at least some sort of sympathy for people reminded of its original intent.


But how are we to be aware of the history and past uses of EVERY phrase out there. Thats a LOT of research and memory just to ensure no-one's feelings are hurt.

I mean, where did you learn about the phrase 'you suck'? I'd never heard that before, and quite honestly, I would never even have thought that phrase COULD POSSIBLY have any other meaning than the slacker attitude it embodied when I was growing up. Would I be irresponsible if I used the phrase in certain situations?

I grew up in the Upper Penninsula of Michigan and there's no way in hell I'd ever know the history of eeny-meeny. Like I said, I'd never heard the "true" rhyme until today. Does using it ignorantly make me irresponsible, bad or liable?

Where do we draw the line? There is a difference between malicious use and ignorant or innocent use and these women are trying to exploit a legal blindness to this difference.

I would argue that Southwest wouldn't even be liable if the stewardess had used the "very bad word" towards these women, so long has they acted to reprimand, punish or fire her subsequent to learning about her behavior. Did these women even demand that this woman be punished? If so, do they even have the right to sue based on the fact that the woman wasn't acting under official Southwest policy or condoned action?

This all seems absurd to me on many different levels. I believe knowing the history of these phrases falls well outside the consideration of social responibility. Upon knowing their meaning, sure, maybe we should change our attitude or behavior with those phrases. But ignorance of obscure phrases (depending on your environment, obviously) should not be confused with malice or exploited by the money hungry.

Taft

DavisBAnimal
Feb 10, 2003, 09:29 PM
Originally posted by Taft


But how are we to be aware of the history and past uses of EVERY phrase out there. Thats a LOT of research and memory just to ensure no-one's feelings are hurt.

I mean, where did you learn about the phrase 'you suck'? I'd never heard that before, and quite honestly, I would never even have thought that phrase COULD POSSIBLY have any other meaning than the slacker attitude it embodied when I was growing up. Would I be irresponsible if I used the phrase in certain situations?

I grew up in the Upper Penninsula of Michigan and there's no way in hell I'd ever know the history of eeny-meeny. Like I said, I'd never heard the "true" rhyme until today. Does using it ignorantly make me irresponsible, bad or liable?

Where do we draw the line? There is a difference between malicious use and ignorant or innocent use and these women are trying to exploit a legal blindness to this difference.

I would argue that Southwest wouldn't even be liable if the stewardess had used the "very bad word" towards these women, so long has they acted to reprimand, punish or fire her subsequent to learning about her behavior. Did these women even demand that this woman be punished? If so, do they even have the right to sue based on the fact that the woman wasn't acting under official Southwest policy or condoned action?

This all seems absurd to me on many different levels. I believe knowing the history of these phrases falls well outside the consideration of social responibility. Upon knowing their meaning, sure, maybe we should change our attitude or behavior with those phrases. But ignorance of obscure phrases (depending on your environment, obviously) should not be confused with malice or exploited by the money hungry.

Taft

I pretty much agree with everything you say. The only reason I know the history of "you suck" is because of my background in linguistics, and I in no way think of it as offensive - I use "suck" regularly. I meant to use "you suck" as an example of a phrase whose memory IS completely forgotten, and therefore a phrase that in very unlikely to offend anyone.

It is no one's responsibility to know the history of every phrase out there. However, it IS everyone's responsibilty (at least anyone hoping to be respectful to others) to seriously consider how their words affect those around them - especially for phrases that are still used in their original, damaging forms. If you, from Michigan, ever use the Eeeny Meenie rhyme towards someone from the Deep South, who grew up knowing only the racist version, and they become offended (since it draws attention to their difficult past), you are not at fault - but neither are they for being offended. If that person were to politely inform you of how they originally knew that rhyme, I'd like to think you would be considerate enough to apologize and move on better educated and less likely to offend people in the future. I'd also like to think they wouldn't feel it necessary to sue the crap out of you.

The whole "stick and stones" thing is a bunch of garbage - words built this country, words give people the death penalty, words will decide whether or not we go to war with Iraq, and words can and do offend people.

Being offended isn't a crime, and neither is offending people. Usually it's a good starting point for education and a degree of mutual understanding.

What should be a crime are frivolous lawsuits based on matters that could easily be settled with a simple conversation, or a brief letter. The one good thing these girls did was ask Southwest from using this rhyme in the future, out of respect for those on Southwest flights who grew up in areas where the original, racist rhyme is still used. But you're all right, as with most lawsuits these days, they are simply using this oportunity to get a whole bunch of cash.

There's a great book out there concerning the offensiveness of words, the n- word specifically, called "******: The Strange Career of One Troublesome Word" by Randall Kenedy, a Harvard Law professor. It's a great read which deals with all of this stuff - he makes some interesting comments concerning the new, positive character given to the n- word in Hip Hop music, movies, etc. - even contemplating the eventual erradication of any sort of negative connotations (something that the gay-rights/awareness community has done by adopting the word "Queer").

Davis

Taft
Feb 10, 2003, 10:47 PM
Originally posted by DavisBAnimal


I pretty much agree with everything you say. The only reason I know the history of "you suck" is because of my background in linguistics, and I in no way think of it as offensive - I use "suck" regularly. I meant to use "you suck" as an example of a phrase whose memory IS completely forgotten, and therefore a phrase that in very unlikely to offend anyone.

It is no one's responsibility to know the history of every phrase out there. However, it IS everyone's responsibilty (at least anyone hoping to be respectful to others) to seriously consider how their words affect those around them - especially for phrases that are still used in their original, damaging forms. If you, from Michigan, ever use the Eeeny Meenie rhyme towards someone from the Deep South, who grew up knowing only the racist version, and they become offended (since it draws attention to their difficult past), you are not at fault - but neither are they for being offended. If that person were to politely inform you of how they originally knew that rhyme, I'd like to think you would be considerate enough to apologize and move on better educated and less likely to offend people in the future. I'd also like to think they wouldn't feel it necessary to sue the crap out of you.

The whole "stick and stones" thing is a bunch of garbage - words built this country, words give people the death penalty, words will decide whether or not we go to war with Iraq, and words can and do offend people.

Being offended isn't a crime, and neither is offending people. Usually it's a good starting point for education and a degree of mutual understanding.

What should be a crime are frivolous lawsuits based on matters that could easily be settled with a simple conversation, or a brief letter. The one good thing these girls did was ask Southwest from using this rhyme in the future, out of respect for those on Southwest flights who grew up in areas where the original, racist rhyme is still used. But you're all right, as with most lawsuits these days, they are simply using this oportunity to get a whole bunch of cash.

There's a great book out there concerning the offensiveness of words, the n- word specifically, called "******: The Strange Career of One Troublesome Word" by Randall Kenedy, a Harvard Law professor. It's a great read which deals with all of this stuff - he makes some interesting comments concerning the new, positive character given to the n- word in Hip Hop music, movies, etc. - even contemplating the eventual erradication of any sort of negative connotations (something that the gay-rights/awareness community has done by adopting the word "Queer").

Davis

True 'dat.

I've read some stuff about the "******" book. (Is it a little ridiculous that a word was given so much power that we have to use asteriks to describe it now??) I heard they did a Boston Public episode about it. Its pretty interesting stuff.

It would be interesting, I think, if the n word became what 'dude' was to me in college or what 'mate' is to younger englishmen these days. But I almost wonder if the negative aspects will stick with the word simply because of the severity of the persecution that accompanied it. I guess only time will tell.

Taft

MPTV-Ti
Feb 11, 2003, 03:13 AM
mcdonalds has advertisements in and around SF on buses and billboards that use the phrase "eenie meenie miny more" or something to that extent... they better watch out ;)

Gus
Feb 12, 2003, 02:13 PM
The idea that anyone could sue someone over something they said is remarkable to me. I realize that there are slander laws, which are necessary in the modern world of media, but geez, come on! Not only did that DC employee get fired for using the word "niggardly", but it happened again in Washington State to a teacher about 3 months ago. In that case, a person lost their career (teacher) because of the ignorance of a few people. They told her she should have used another word that didn't have offensive connotations. What crap. That word has NEVER been an offensive word, and has no ties to the all-offensive N-Word that people of color seem to toss around like a beachball. I grew up in the South, and as such I was exposed to a lot of this stuff as a kid. I knew even as a kid that people who said things like this were just ignorant morons, and to avoid them.

Since when can we sue somebody because they hurt our feelings? Geez. I guess B.J. Richards from my 5th grade class owes me a crap-load of money for calling me names for a year solid.

Regards,
Gus

Mr. Anderson
Feb 12, 2003, 02:41 PM
It would be interesting to see if these two individuals decided to do this on their own or if they were 'coached' by a lawyer or someone associated somehow on getting part of the money.

That's what it all boils down to, greedy bastards trying to take advantage of the laws.

Pathetic, I hope it gets thrown out.

D :mad:

3rdpath
Feb 12, 2003, 04:04 PM
sounds like a case for johnny cochrine...

the women don't stand a chance in hell of winning this absurd case.

and yes i've heard them say this on southwest...and it is usually when a few mindless passengers are wondering around like they're window-shopping.

speaking of southwest airlines...anyone else remember when their flight attendants( all female at the time) were required to wear hotpants and go-go boots?

not pc....but hey, i still remember the ads....

:D
edit: QT of stewardess http://www.iflyswa.com/multimedia/PLANEOVR.MPG

shagadelic!

Sun Baked
Feb 12, 2003, 04:11 PM
Originally posted by 3rdpath
speaking of southwest airlines...anyone else remember when their flight attendants( all female at the time) were required to wear hotpants and go-go boots? and the airline's ads had the women posed wth their butts towards the camera with the slogan " we really move our tails for you!".Hopefully Hooters doesn't become as PC as Southwest, what a sad day that would be...

If a big hairy man in orange hotpants and a tight t-shirt came up to me and said he was going to be my server tonight, I think I'd run the other direction.

3rdpath
Feb 12, 2003, 04:16 PM
more southwestisms:

From a Southwest Airlines employee: "Welcome aboard SouthwestFlight XXX, to YYY. To operate your seatbelt, insert the metal tab into the buckle, and pull tight. It works just like every other seatbelt, and if you don't know how to operate one, you probably shouldn't be out in public unsupervised.

In the event of a sudden loss of cabin pressure, oxygen masks will descend from the ceiling. Stop screaming, grab the mask, and pull it over your face. If you have a small child traveling with you, secure your mask before assisting with theirs. If you are traveling with two small children, decide now which one you love more.

Weather at our destination is 50 degrees with some broken clouds, but they'll try to have them fixed before we arrive.

Thank you, and remember, nobody loves you, or your money, more than Southwest Airlines."

no wonder they're one of the few profitable airlines left... :D

charboneau
Feb 20, 2003, 03:42 PM
Yeah it's a stupid suit. But they are sure not to win. It's a waste of time and money, but there are things a whole lot more unjust going on.

chrisfx811
Feb 20, 2003, 09:59 PM
this is friggen ridiculous! but hey, if affirmative action wants to "give" special treatment to people because of the color of their skin, then what do you expect? they are being told they deserve certain treatment because of their skin color, so people like this search out excuses for more freebies! idiots like this will continue to perpetuate racism, because nowadays you have to monitor every little thing you say towards non-white people. the funny thing is, if the stewardess said "hey honkey, howsabout sittin yo butt in the back of the bus fo a change".... everybody would have laughed.