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MacRumors
May 2, 2006, 12:01 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

After briefly becoming more valuable than Dell on January 13, 2006, Apple is once again more valuable than Dell. As of last night's close, Apple Computer, Inc. is worth $60,166,590,800 in market value vs. Dell's $60,061,881,440 according to MacDailyNews (http://macdailynews.com/index.php/weblog/comments/9432/).

This NASDAQ's website (http://quotes.nasdaq.com/Quote.dll?symbol=AAPL&symbol=dell&mode=stock&multi.x=26&multi.y=4) shows an up-to-date comparison of the two companies including respective market values.

CellarDoor
May 2, 2006, 12:03 PM
Awesome News! and I just woke up too! I wish I could wake up like this every day.

p0intblank
May 2, 2006, 12:10 PM
There's no way this can be a Negative. :D

fuzzwud
May 2, 2006, 12:11 PM
that's great news, but taken with a grain of salt, I would say that Apple is at a high and Dell at a low. Do you think Apple or Dell has more room to go up?
Do you think Appel or Dell has more room to go down?

Tcnorman
May 2, 2006, 12:11 PM
Well, it was inevitable. Dell continues to become the Kia of Computers.

Gump
May 2, 2006, 12:12 PM
Well, wee willy winky! This just wets my whistle wally!

OS X 10.6 - Panda

EricNau
May 2, 2006, 12:15 PM
Take that Dell! :D

But this does tell me one thing... Apple can afford to lower their prices a little.

AvSRoCkCO1067
May 2, 2006, 12:16 PM
that's great news, but taken with a grain of salt, I would say that Apple is at a high and Dell at a low. Do you think Apple or Dell has more room to go up?
Do you think Appel or Dell has more room to go down?

This is an interesting point with some validity but...I still think Apple has more room to go up, due to its innovation. It's in a low point at the moment, in terms of Macs, anyway, as its in the middle of a major transition and buyers are hesitant. After the Intel transition is complete, and with "the most amazing product pipeline Steve has ever seen", I believe that Apple has more room, not Dell.

IEatApples
May 2, 2006, 12:17 PM
Love it! :D
Now who's next?
(Mycrapsoft?)

adamcz
May 2, 2006, 12:19 PM
While it's true that "Mr Market" is currently valuing Apple higher than Dell, Dell generates a lot more revenue.

But this does tell me one thing... Apple can afford to lower their prices a little.
How are Apple's price points and the stock market's valuation of Apple related like that?? I don't get what you're seeing here.

p0intblank
May 2, 2006, 12:21 PM
And the Negatives begin to roll in... :rolleyes:

drewyboy
May 2, 2006, 12:23 PM
WTF! Who voted negative & why? You must explain yourself, and very well at that!

kjr39
May 2, 2006, 12:25 PM
:rolleyes: And in the grand scheme of things, this means what again?

EricNau
May 2, 2006, 12:25 PM
While it's true that "Mr Market" is currently valuing Apple higher than Dell, Dell generates a lot more revenue.


How are Apple's price points and the stock market's valuation of Apple related like that?? I don't get what you're seeing here.
Ya, I was a little off. I should read the entire post before I open my big mouth next time. :o

But I think the two are related in a smaller, less significant way. More money should still mean they can afford to charge less, right? :confused:

drewyboy
May 2, 2006, 12:28 PM
I got it. I now have figured out that the Demi-Gods and Mediators have put up this thread simply to proove the fact that no matter what news that should all be positive, their a amongst us those that have signed up & watch this site to simply vote negative on everything! I SEE YOU MICHEAL DELL!!!

sam10685
May 2, 2006, 12:29 PM
Apple; kickin'-ass and takin'-names.

adamcz
May 2, 2006, 12:31 PM
But I think the two are related in a smaller, less significant way. More money should still mean they can afford to charge less, right?No. When Apple's stock price goes up, it does not mean that Apple the company gets more money. It means that Apple shareholders could sell for a profit. Keeping computer prices (and therefore profits) high is how Apple the company makes money.

gman71882
May 2, 2006, 12:32 PM
hey, most of yall still like & buy the Dell monitors!!!
so your sleeping with the enemy :eek: ;)

whocares
May 2, 2006, 12:33 PM
:rolleyes: And in the grand scheme of things, this means what again?

/\/\4Cs RU73 - D377 5UX!!!11!!!1!!one!!eleven!!

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :p

Please do not ban me.

jared_kipe
May 2, 2006, 12:35 PM
Nice, too bad its the iPod that did it and not mac sales.
No. When Apple's stock price goes up, it does not mean that Apple the company gets more money. It means that Apple shareholders could sell for a profit. Keeping computer prices (and therefore profits) high is how Apple the company makes money.
Right... Suppose for one min it was the iPod which is up 61% year over year last quarter.

Mitch1984
May 2, 2006, 12:38 PM
There's no way this can be a Negative. :D

The only reason someone would vote this as a negative would be to be pee us off.
That and maybe Michael Dell.

Object-X
May 2, 2006, 12:38 PM
Are we going to report this everytime the stock fluctuates? Why is this even news again? Get over it.

Sirin
May 2, 2006, 12:43 PM
WTF! Who voted negative & why? You must explain yourself, and very well at that!

Three people:

http://battellemedia.com/images/bill-gates.jpghttp://www.edrants.com/reluctant/ballmer.jpghttp://www.chron.com/content/chronicle/special/00/talltx/dell.jpg

Di9it8
May 2, 2006, 12:47 PM
Are we going to report this everytime the stock fluctuates? Why is this even news again? Get over it.
And what about the P/E ratio :rolleyes:

longofest
May 2, 2006, 12:47 PM
Are we going to report this everytime the stock fluctuates? Why is this even news again? Get over it.

Last time I checked, this was only the second time in history that the market has "fluctuated" to put Apple ahead of Dell upon closing.

Nickygoat
May 2, 2006, 12:49 PM
Are we going to report this everytime the stock fluctuates? Why is this even news again? Get over it.
Because there are plenty of AAPL holders on these boards.

TMay
May 2, 2006, 12:50 PM
And if not, why not?

Remake of Frankenstein, replacing Peter Boyle, is what his future should be.

miketcool
May 2, 2006, 12:50 PM
Aaaahh!!:eek:

As soon as the front page loaded a commercial for Dell came on!

Time to bust out my jiffy pop foil helmet again....

MacVault
May 2, 2006, 12:54 PM
Being worth that much it seems to me Apple could have made some better tv commercials. Just my $0.02.

bommai
May 2, 2006, 12:59 PM
Apple's Price to Earnings ratio (P/E) is twice that of Dell. That is both good and bad. Good in that the market thinks highly of Apple's potential. Bad in that Apple has to keep delivering a lot better results than Dell to keep this up.

Price = Stock Price
Earnings = Profits

P/E high means market thinks very high potential such as Google (66), and to some lesser extent Apple (35). > 30

P/E medium is for mature companies that doesn't have skyrocketing potential. Think GE(19), Dell (17), Intel (15), Microsoft (19), IBM (16), etc. >15, <30

P/E low. Market does not think this company will do well in the future. <10.
Think Ford (8.68), GM (negative), etc.

SC68Cal
May 2, 2006, 01:07 PM
Shut up and eat your hamburger Steve.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v369/SCAPLUS/Mac/ballmerhamburger.jpg

sam10685
May 2, 2006, 01:07 PM
Three people:

http://battellemedia.com/images/bill-gates.jpghttp://www.edrants.com/reluctant/ballmer.jpghttp://www.chron.com/content/chronicle/special/00/talltx/dell.jpg

i know who he is, i know who that is... but who's the bald guy?

shelterpaw
May 2, 2006, 01:07 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

After briefly becoming more valuable than Dell on January 13, 2006, Apple is once again more valuable than Dell. As of last night's close, Apple Computer, Inc. is worth $60,166,590,800 in market value vs. Dell's $60,061,881,440 according to MacDailyNews (http://macdailynews.com/index.php/weblog/comments/9432/).

This NASDAQ's website (http://quotes.nasdaq.com/Quote.dll?symbol=AAPL&symbol=dell&mode=stock&multi.x=26&multi.y=4) shows an up-to-date comparison of the two companies including respective market values.

Dells PE: 17.49
Apples PE: 36.08

Apple is overvalued for as far as PE is concerned, but hopefully they'll continue this upward trend and justify it. :D

-Jeff
May 2, 2006, 01:08 PM
Bad in that Apple has to keep delivering a lot better results than Dell to keep this up.

Call me crazy, but I think that's a good thing. It's called motivation.

Ja Di ksw
May 2, 2006, 01:15 PM
. . .and with "the most amazing product pipeline Steve has ever seen", . . .

Where is that quote from?

http://www.edrants.com/reluctant/ballmer.jpg

Why does that remind me of a large, flightless bird?

MrCrowbar
May 2, 2006, 01:18 PM
i know who he is, i know who that is... but who's the bald guy?

Steve Ballmer, Microsoft. Search for him on Google if you wanna laugh.

deadturtle
May 2, 2006, 01:24 PM
http://www.edrants.com/reluctant/ballmer.jpg

Is it just me or does Ballmer look more anemic than ever? I keep expecting to see in the news either:

A) Ballmer accidentally tranquilized during a visit to the zoo when he does a monkey dance because the cash register (running MSEmbed) crashes
--or--
B) Ballmer dies of massive heartattack screaming developers developers developers in the shower :rolleyes:

crees!
May 2, 2006, 01:24 PM
Ballmer giving his O-face.

http://www.edrants.com/reluctant/ballmer.jpg

weitzner
May 2, 2006, 01:29 PM
good... now we have the high ground.. we shall strike at dawn!

drewyboy
May 2, 2006, 01:29 PM
Steve Ballmer, Microsoft. Search for him on Google if you wanna laugh.

All i have to say is, watch the first one, then the second. You'll definitely get a kick out of it.

Balmer Monkey Dance (http://www.ntk.net/media/dancemonkeyboy.mpg)
Balmer iPod Ad (http://www.macboy.com/cartoons/ballmer/index.html)

iDrinkKoolAid
May 2, 2006, 01:35 PM
Who is voting negative on this thread!?

It must be Michael Dell fanboys. :confused:

sam10685
May 2, 2006, 01:39 PM
Steve Ballmer, Microsoft. Search for him on Google if you wanna laugh.

holy crap... i just found a video of him talking to a crowd while clapping and saying "developers, developers, developers, developers..." most discusting thing i've ever seen in my life.

Cinch
May 2, 2006, 01:42 PM
Apple's Price to Earnings ratio (P/E) is twice that of Dell. That is both good and bad. Good in that the market thinks highly of Apple's potential. Bad in that Apple has to keep delivering a lot better results than Dell to keep this up.

Price = Stock Price
Earnings = Profits

P/E high means market thinks very high potential such as Google (66), and to some lesser extent Apple (35). > 30

P/E medium is for mature companies that doesn't have skyrocketing potential. Think GE(19), Dell (17), Intel (15), Microsoft (19), IBM (16), etc. >15, <30

P/E low. Market does not think this company will do well in the future. <10.
Think Ford (8.68), GM (negative), etc.


Good thing you brought up F and GM, because I thinking about unloading AAPL for F or GM. Regardless, I'm going to unload AAPL and think more about F or GM.

Cinch

Ja Di ksw
May 2, 2006, 01:45 PM
holy crap... i just found a video of him talking to a crowd while clapping and saying "developers, developers, developers, developers..." most discusting thing i've ever seen in my life.

Share!

sam10685
May 2, 2006, 01:49 PM
http://www.ntk.net/media/developers.mpgShare!

Cinch
May 2, 2006, 01:51 PM
Share!


I'm surprise Google Video hasn't made this the most popular video at least for a day. I bet you that if they do this just for one day, it would cause quite a bit of news.

Fox News would show this clip just to spite MSNBC (loose connection of course).

Cinch

WildCowboy
May 2, 2006, 01:52 PM
Good thing you brought up F and GM, because I thinking about unloading AAPL for F or GM. Regardless, I'm going to unload AAPL and think more about F or GM.

Even the analysts are saying to sell F and GM...that's when you know things are really bad and only going to get worse.

jared_kipe
May 2, 2006, 01:55 PM
http://www.ntk.net/media/developers.mpg
don't foreget
http://www.ntk.net/media/dancemonkeyboy.mpg

EDIT: And people say steve has a reality distortion field, what about this guy? He singlehandedly makes turning 40 and loosing all your hair look "fun" again.

sam10685
May 2, 2006, 01:56 PM
here's another one... <<<PSYCHO...>>> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1763276956369539218&q=steve+ballmer&pl=true

IJ Reilly
May 2, 2006, 01:58 PM
Shut up and eat your hamburger Steve.

Hilarious! :D :D

IJ Reilly
May 2, 2006, 01:59 PM
Dells PE: 17.49
Apples PE: 36.08

Apple is overvalued for as far as PE is concerned, but hopefully they'll continue this upward trend and justify it. :D

Don't look at trailing PE -- this is history. Look at forward PE, which is the future. Apple is growing more quickly than Dell, so a higher trailing PE is justified.

jrober
May 2, 2006, 02:01 PM
Crikey,

I Google Videoed "Steve Ballmer" and now feel physically sick, Mods can we have a Vom Smilie pls.

John :-p~~~~~

Willis
May 2, 2006, 02:04 PM
Three people:

http://battellemedia.com/images/bill-gates.jpghttp://www.edrants.com/reluctant/ballmer.jpghttp://www.chron.com/content/chronicle/special/00/talltx/dell.jpg

smoooooth. Good news though, because hopefully, people will take a lot more interest in Apple, buy their products, bump stock prices up, Apple worth more, invests more money into the company. Its a beautiful cycle :o

WildCowboy
May 2, 2006, 02:05 PM
Don't look at trailing PE -- this is history. Look at forward PE, which is the future. Apple is growing more quickly than Dell, so a higher trailing PE is justified.

From Yahoo! Finance:

Forward P/E
AAPL: 27.68
DELL: 13.51

Trailing P/E
AAPL: 36.04
DELL: 17.50

What's really interesting is a company like Genentech:
Trailing P/E: 58.10...seems way overpriced
Forward P/E: 29.80...much more reasonable

Cinch
May 2, 2006, 02:10 PM
Even the analysts are saying to sell F and GM...that's when you know things are really bad and only going to get worse.

yeah, well I trust MacRumors before I take an analyst word. while we are one the Market Cap number, little if any comparison here:

AAPL = 60B
GM = 13B
F = 12B (I'm think at least I'm close here)

One thing for sure, it takes lots of money to move a 60B stock than it does to move a 13B stock.


Cinch

IJ Reilly
May 2, 2006, 02:25 PM
From Yahoo! Finance:

Forward P/E
AAPL: 27.68
DELL: 13.51

Trailing P/E
AAPL: 36.04
DELL: 17.50

What's really interesting is a company like Genentech:
Trailing P/E: 58.10...seems way overpriced
Forward P/E: 29.80...much more reasonable

Exactly. If trailing PE was so important, we'd all be investing in banks and heavy industries, where PEs in the teens and even single-digits can be found.

CompUser
May 2, 2006, 02:30 PM
http://www.ntk.net/media/developers.mpg

God, someone needs to tell that man to wear an undershirt. That is quite possibly the most disgusting thing I have seen all week.

Fiveos22
May 2, 2006, 02:33 PM
/\/\4Cs RU73 - D377 5UX!!!11!!!1!!one!!eleven!!

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :p

Please do not ban me.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y237/link223/banstick_lg.jpg

:D


Sorry, I couldn't pass up the opportunity.

angelwatt
May 2, 2006, 02:50 PM
Shut up and eat your hamburger Steve.

Man when I saw the picture on the first page I was thinking someone photoshop'ed out a burger in his hands, haha. And now you have added it back. That's great.

Electro Funk
May 2, 2006, 02:52 PM
God, someone needs to tell that man to wear an undershirt. That is quite possibly the most disgusting thing I have seen all week.


have you ever seen the Ballmer "Developer's" Remix?

check it! :D

http://www.flamingmailbox.com/maccomedy/movies/balmer.html

give it a minute to load.... HILARIOUS!

sigamy
May 2, 2006, 02:56 PM
Apple is doing so well these days...mainly due to the iPod explosion, but the cool new Mac hardware and OS X have helped too.

I find it part funny and part frustrating that all the tech pundits still comment on what Apple needs to do. "They need to switch to Windows", "They need to sell OS X for any box", etc.

Apple is the leader in home-based multimedia. I won't even say computing becuase what Apple does is so much more than that. I hope they take some cash and purchase TiVo, then sign a nice big deal with Comcast and/or Directv to really take over the living room.

budugu
May 2, 2006, 02:57 PM
Ya, I was a little off. I should read the entire post before I open my big mouth next time. :o

But I think the two are related in a smaller, less significant way. More money should still mean they can afford to charge less, right? :confused:

That smaller is an overly modest statement. The right relation is "freaking" zero. By your argument MSFT should give windows away for free!!:eek:

bodeh6
May 2, 2006, 03:00 PM
have you ever seen the Ballmer "Developer's" Remix?

check it! :D

http://www.flamingmailbox.com/maccomedy/movies/balmer.html

give it a minute to load.... HILARIOUS!

That was darn funny! We need him to do a new monkey boy dance this year.

kirk26
May 2, 2006, 03:04 PM
To help MacRumors in their time of struggle for stories:
http://www.engadget.com/2006/05/02/after-all-that-fuss-france-bends-on-their-drm-law/

WildCowboy
May 2, 2006, 03:06 PM
To help MacRumors in their time of struggle for stories:
http://www.engadget.com/2006/05/02/after-all-that-fuss-france-bends-on-their-drm-law/

Umm...okay. Not at all relevant to this thread, and there's already a big thread on the topic.

budugu
May 2, 2006, 03:07 PM
Who is voting negative on this thread!?

It must be Michael Dell fanboys. :confused:

People who are just fedup when some one posts a unarguably stupid thread!

yac_moda
May 2, 2006, 03:22 PM
Shut up and eat your hamburger Steve.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v369/SCAPLUS/Mac/ballmerhamburger.jpg

Ouuu !!! What a GroWSe looking burger !!!

Is that burger from FUDDRUCKERS :confused:

phd
May 2, 2006, 03:25 PM
http://www.macboy.com/cartoons/ballmer/

:p

photomaniac
May 2, 2006, 03:28 PM
....LOL... and the only thing that keeps coming to my mind is when Michael Dell said that Steve Jobs should sell the company and give its proceeds to its employees back in the mid-late nineties..... LOL LOL LOL ...ROFL!!! Michael Dell has got to feel like an idiot now!

Steve Jobs is a true visionary, fighter, and leader!

sigamy
May 2, 2006, 03:32 PM
....LOL... and the only thing that keeps coming to my mind is when Michael Dell said that Steve Jobs should sell the company and give its proceeds to its employees back in the mid-late nineties..... LOL LOL LOL ...ROFL!!! Michael Dell has got to feel like an idiot now!

Steve Jobs is a true visionary, fighter, and leader!

Just a small but important correction, Dell said that Apple should be shut down and the money given back to shareholders (ie, investors)--not employees. Public companies don't answer to their employees, they answer to the stock holders.

photomaniac
May 2, 2006, 03:36 PM
http://www.ntk.net/media/developers.mpg

I think this is the sickest and funniest video I've seen in a long time....

photomaniac
May 2, 2006, 03:38 PM
Just a small but important correction, Dell said that Apple should be shut down and the money given back to shareholders (ie, investors)--not employees. Public companies don't answer to their employees, they answer to the stock holders.

thanks for the correction.... ...still the same end result :)

stuBCN75
May 2, 2006, 03:44 PM
I think this is the sickest and funniest video I've seen in a long time....

Does any else can't help but think this is like an SNL skit????? LOL

http://www.flamingmailbox.com/maccomedy/movies/balmer.html
Oooh. sweating like that is just not nice. Did no one tell him ...

strange days
May 2, 2006, 03:47 PM
holy crap... i just found a video of him talking to a crowd while clapping and saying "developers, developers, developers, developers..." most discusting thing i've ever seen in my life.

...i was afraid someone would call me crazy, but since you're with me on this, i must stress how scary ugly grotesque and ultimately tragic is that performance of Ballmer(de) among others...

i won't say no more; some things should fade unnoticed for the sake of humanity...

photomaniac
May 2, 2006, 03:48 PM
Balmer Monkey Dance (http://www.ntk.net/media/dancemonkeyboy.mpg)

Anyone else can't help but think this is like an SNL skit????? LOL

ChoMomma
May 2, 2006, 03:58 PM
I never get tired of laughing at the moron.

shawnce
May 2, 2006, 03:59 PM
Crikey,

I Google Videoed "Steve Ballmer" and now feel physically sick, Mods can we have a Vom Smilie pls.

John :-p~~~~~

Just check my sig... :)

sam10685
May 2, 2006, 04:00 PM
Balmer Monkey Dance (http://www.ntk.net/media/dancemonkeyboy.mpg)

Anyone else can't help but think this is like an SNL skit????? LOL

SNL skit... also, the guy reminds me of a subsitute teacher i had in the 3rd grade.

sam10685
May 2, 2006, 04:06 PM
Just check my sig... :)

haven't seen the remix video in ur sig... funny! (Although now i have "developers, developers, developers, developers" stuck in my head. thank u.)

MacsRgr8
May 2, 2006, 04:08 PM
These Ballmer videos are really disturbing... they just can't be serious.
Don't show these to kids, people!!! :eek:

And what's more... the audience really seem to enjoy it!! :confused: Clapping with Ballmer in rthythm to "developers, developers", and cheering this freak on in the monkey dance. Amazing!

I mean come on....

If Steve Jobs would go on stage like that, I bet everyone would flee the Moscone Center.

:rolleyes:

AeChei
May 2, 2006, 04:09 PM
Well, it was inevitable. Dell continues to become the Kia of Computers.


Oh, SNAP!

Ryan5505
May 2, 2006, 04:18 PM
Apple's Price to Earnings ratio (P/E) is twice that of Dell. That is both good and bad. Good in that the market thinks highly of Apple's potential. Bad in that Apple has to keep delivering a lot better results than Dell to keep this up.

Price = Stock Price
Earnings = Profits

P/E high means market thinks very high potential such as Google (66), and to some lesser extent Apple (35). > 30

P/E medium is for mature companies that doesn't have skyrocketing potential. Think GE(19), Dell (17), Intel (15), Microsoft (19), IBM (16), etc. >15, <30

P/E low. Market does not think this company will do well in the future. <10.
Think Ford (8.68), GM (negative), etc.

Where is your information from, because you are wrong pal.


AAPL has one of the highest ranked consensus scores of the Personal Computers Industry.
AAPL Coverage: 28 IRPs | Industry Average: 14 IRPs
Rank in Technology Sector
86.8%
AAPL's consensus score is higher than 86.8% of the Technology Sector.
AAPL Coverage: 28 IRPs | Sector Average: 10 IRPs
Rank in Jaywalk Universe
79.8%
AAPL's consensus score is higher than 79.8% of the Jaywalk Universe.
AAPL Coverage: 28 IRPs | Jaywalk Average: 10 IRPs

Apple has been in front of Dell in the consensus for weeks. The analyst review apple as:
Reuters Outperform, Rochdale Outperform, sabrient Outperform, Thompson says Buy. Dell: Hold, Hold, Hold, Hold
As for the others you stated, Intel(intc) HOLD, Ford STRONG SELL.

Bonte
May 2, 2006, 05:01 PM
While it's true that "Mr Market" is currently valuing Apple higher than Dell, Dell generates a lot more revenue.

But not real profit and nobody is expecting new innovating products from them, there at a high the last 5 years (like MS) and can only come down. Apple is the 'smaller' player in the field and has lots of room to grow and proven to the market it can innovate and grow.

Apple's market can easily grow 100% in the next 2 years because of the intel transition and there is room for bigger growth in home electronics and software.

Bengt77
May 2, 2006, 05:13 PM
/\/\4Cs RU73 - D377 5UX!!!11!!!1!!one!!eleven!!

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :p

Please do not ban me.
Okay, with the danger of being flamed and being looked down upon as if I were a complete moron and computer illiterate, I ask you all where that utterly stupid '!!!11!!!1!!one!!eleven!!' comes from. It must have evolved out of the elevens-between-the-exclamation-marks thing (something like this: '!!!1!!!11!!'), but how exactly? Oh, and yes, I've done a forum search on the fenomenon.

Thanks in advance to anyone that won't flame me. And thanks for an answer?

http://chat2.globalpinoy.com/images/emoticons/frown.gif

gnasher729
May 2, 2006, 05:19 PM
yeah, well I trust MacRumors before I take an analyst word. while we are one the Market Cap number, little if any comparison here:

AAPL = 60B
GM = 13B
F = 12B (I'm think at least I'm close here)

One thing for sure, it takes lots of money to move a 60B stock than it does to move a 13B stock.

This comparison would be very misleading.

I haven't checked out Ford at all, but General Motors has about 277 billion dollars debt due to their pension obligations. The "enterprise value" of General Motors is about 271 billion dollars; that is how the stock market values the business without considering any cash or debt; the "enterprise value" of Apple Computer is "only" 51 billion dollars.

Di9it8
May 2, 2006, 05:31 PM
Exactly. If trailing PE was so important, we'd all be investing in banks and heavy industries, where PEs in the teens and even single-digits can be found.
Looks like we are all doing the market analysts research and analysis ready for tomorrows market reports:D

Bengt77
May 2, 2006, 05:32 PM
What's up with all those Ballmer videos? Weren't they a hit about two years ago? What's up with them resurfacing now again? Should we make the "All your base are belong to us!" (http://allyourbase.planettribes.gamespy.com//video1_view.shtml) video a hit again, too, now? And what about the Drum Machine (http://www.tokyoplastic.com/dm.html) flash art? And End Of The World (http://www.ebaumsworld.com/flash/endofworld.html)? And the Hamster Dance (http://www.hamsterdance.com/classorig.html)?!...

http://images3.deviantart.com/i/2004/183/c/8/_yawn__emoticon.gif

EricNau
May 2, 2006, 05:32 PM
That smaller is an overly modest statement. The right relation is "freaking" zero. By your argument MSFT should give windows away for free!!:eek:
Yes, they should. That's about what it's worth. :D

Bengt77
May 2, 2006, 05:35 PM
Yes, they should. That's about what it's worth. :D
Hehe... Well, that actually would settle my mental struggle about wether to buy a copy of Windows XP once I get my Intel iMac...

avus
May 2, 2006, 05:42 PM
These Ballmer videos are really disturbing... they just can't be serious.
Don't show these to kids, people!!! :eek:

And what's more... the audience really seem to enjoy it!! :confused: Clapping with Ballmer in rthythm to "developers, developers", and cheering this freak on in the monkey dance. Amazing!

I mean come on....

If Steve Jobs would go on stage like that, I bet everyone would flee the Moscone Center.

:rolleyes:

I just found this video (that requries WMP9 but it played fine under OSX)

http://www.avenuea-razorfish.com/clientsummit06/Ballmer.wvx

Apparently, this was taped this year, and this ape hasn't changed his tunes...

http://www.avenuea-razorfish.com/clientsummit06/

I don't know these people but they are calling this monkey talk "arousing." They really must be insane.

I found another video of this ape pitching Windows 1.0

http://media.ebaumsworld.com/ballmerwindows.wmv

This BETTER be an SNL skit!

(edited to add a video link)

photomaniac
May 2, 2006, 05:48 PM
These Ballmer videos are really disturbing... they just can't be serious.
Don't show these to kids, people!!! :eek:

And what's more... the audience really seem to enjoy it!! :confused: Clapping with Ballmer in rthythm to "developers, developers", and cheering this freak on in the monkey dance. Amazing!

I mean come on....

If Steve Jobs would go on stage like that, I bet everyone would flee the Moscone Center.

:rolleyes:

I know... it's like some weird cult.... hmmmm kinda like Tony Robbins on crack cocaine.

iRoman
May 2, 2006, 06:00 PM
As of close of play a few mins ago Apple were up another half a billion bucks and Dell down a couple of hundred million....hey, this is just so real!:eek:

Too bad I only own their hardware and not their shares!

jcoffman78
May 2, 2006, 06:20 PM
Don't give a rats ass if Apple is worth more than Microsoft, unless the release the Macbook soon, they ain't gonna be worth a plug nickel!!!

Platform
May 2, 2006, 06:21 PM
Beat you again....hehe :p

Strange to see people know who Michael Dell and Bill (Chairman) are but not Microsoft's CEO no idea ??

Hunabku
May 2, 2006, 06:23 PM
OMFG - that monkey dancing psycho jubulation love of M$ he spewed must come from how deliriously happy he is about his bank account.

No seriously, people thought Howard Dean was crazy - no way - Howard should go to Steve Balmer school for Self-Inflicted States of Publicly Displayed Prepubescent Dilerium.

Oh and Howard please gain lots of weight before hand by eating lots of those Balmer Burgers so at the end of your "episode" we can listen to you gasp for air like you're about to die of a heart attack.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

jefhatfield
May 2, 2006, 06:33 PM
i like that, but there seems to be a disconnect with reality here

then why aren't there more macs out there compared to dells?...actually the only reason i can think of is the ipod

macworld, june 2006, page 16 quotes: "...BiP (before iPod) meant Apple was a modestly successful computer company; AiP (after iPod) means Apple is a dominant media conglomerate."

jhu
May 2, 2006, 06:36 PM
here's another vote for "why is this news???" remember when cisco was worth more than microsoft? remember when ge was worth more than exxon-mobile? remember when everyone here loved powerpc and hated intel?

also dell still has 3 times more profit, 2 times more free cash flow, and 4.5 times the revenue of apple.

jefhatfield
May 2, 2006, 06:46 PM
here's another vote for "why is this news???" remember when cisco was worth more than microsoft? remember when ge was worth more than exxon-mobile? remember when everyone here loved powerpc and hated intel?

also dell still has 3 times more profit, 2 times more free cash flow, and 4.5 times the revenue of apple.

and half of cisco's net worth was tied into the dot.com economy, much of it in silicon valley...man, talk about a bubble...scary times

real estate is next if suzy orman and others are correct and it will make dot.com crash look small by comparison...i hope apple does not have a lot of their money stashed in real estate and i hope micheal dell has all his spare money on jupiter island investments ;)

norcalsurfer
May 2, 2006, 07:06 PM
While mac is doing great, dell has taken a serious dive and just aquired Alien in an attempt to capture the gamer market (Though my MACBOOK beats any gamer laptop hands down on the PC side)
Lets watch what happens since NAB has ended.
Lates`
2x2 g5 with 4 gigs
2x2 g5 with 4 gigs
2x 23" displays
2 ipods
1 very fancy macbook-- Though it's hot an it humms (Refurb)

jefhatfield
May 2, 2006, 07:11 PM
While mac is doing great, dell has taken a serious dive and just aquired Alien in an attempt to capture the gamer market (Though my MACBOOK beats any gamer laptop hands down on the PC side)
Lets watch what happens since NAB has ended.
Lates`
2x2 g5 with 4 gigs
2x2 g5 with 4 gigs
2x 23" displays
2 ipods
1 very fancy macbook-- Though it's hot an it humms (Refurb)


yikes, dell bought alien? i love alien

the macbook pro, while great and revolutionary and unmatched in form factor and pure sexiness, is no alien laptop when it comes to games though

alien may not be able to do a million things macs can do, but alien does know laptop gaming

longofest
May 2, 2006, 07:23 PM
Balmer Monkey Dance (http://www.ntk.net/media/dancemonkeyboy.mpg)

Anyone else can't help but think this is like an SNL skit????? LOL

I have never seen that before. THANK YOU SO MUCH for enlightening me!!!

Stridder44
May 2, 2006, 08:14 PM
awesome apple wins again!

yac_moda
May 2, 2006, 09:02 PM
OK, well, I was trashing the DULL a couple of weeks ago on Macrumors and got kicked OFF for a couple of days because I hassling some DULL lovers.

I wish I had shorted DULL back then I would have MADE SOME SPENDING MONEY :eek:

So anyway because of THAT and this article I checked it out again I FOUND THIS AMAZING RELATIONSHIP :eek:

Check out this chart of Dell and MSFT together ...
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?t=6m&s=DELL&l=on&z=m&q=l&c=msft

Dell has roughly but consistently followed MS in the past but in the last couple of weeks all the sudden DELLs chart IS VERY NICELY LEADING MS :D

And I think I KNOW WHY :p

MS dropped LIKE A ROCK because they warned that they MUST spend 2 BILLion MORE to compete with GoooGLE :eek:

And I read BOTH stocks news and this is really the most significant thing going on here.

SO IT OCCURS TO ME ;)

If MS spends MORE money on web search & advertise enhancements that is LESS it has to spend on WINDOWS -- WOOPY ;)

AND SO DELL GOES DOWN BECAUSE WITHOUT WINDOWS ENHANCEMENTS DELL HAS NOTHING NEW TO SELL, and this relationship is actually what I was bugging the DULL lovers about, but here is the REALLY BIG kicker.

Why, oh why, oh why, is DULL LEADING MSs stock price down or probably soon up :confused:

There is probably still some more down side if you want to short it but be careful maybe there is just 20% more down remaining.

Because there are a LOT of people as well as Dell himself AT DELL who have inside info on WINDOWS PRODUCTS !

Thus, they sell DULL options on bad news.

Some of this trading, IS PROBABLY ILLEGAL INSIDER TRADING BUT WHO NOWS HOW LONG IT WILL TAKE UNTIL THE FEDS CRACK DOWN :rolleyes:

In the mean time ENJOY and bid up the fluctuations for ME :eek:

sam10685
May 2, 2006, 09:03 PM
God, someone needs to tell that man to wear an undershirt. That is quite possibly the most disgusting thing I have seen all week.

yep. i admire that someone is so excited for a copany they work for, but that is just grotesque...

maxigalaxy
May 2, 2006, 09:32 PM
Three people:

http://battellemedia.com/images/bill-gates.jpg


http://www.originalalamo.com/images/kermit.jpg

any similarities? :D :D :D

WildCowboy
May 2, 2006, 09:56 PM
any similarities? :D :D :D

Please don't insult Kermit...it's not easy being green.

miketcool
May 2, 2006, 11:25 PM
Please don't insult Kermit...it's not easy being green.

"We are concerned that besides being a hip, cool company, Apple is falling short of the industry environmentally," Fahn said. "I would like to thank you for the program introduced last week, but there is still a long way to go."

In response, Jobs noted that the Sierra Club recently voted Apple one of its top 10 environmentally friendly companies. "So there is some kind of disconnect with your numbers," he said. Jobs also noted that Apple's new recycling program takes any computer, not just Macs, "because we like switchers, too."

Kermit belongs with the good guys....

Apparently it REALLY isn't easy being green.

Ja Di ksw
May 3, 2006, 01:19 AM
http://www.ntk.net/media/developers.mpg

Dear god, I'm sorry. Someone should put him (us?) out of misery and euthanize him.

barstard
May 3, 2006, 05:40 AM
I can never see that Ballmer Monkey Dance video without wanting to spew. Fair enough MSFT has done v. well over the years, but this bloke makes the Aussie Bundy swilling, ute driving, CAT cap wearing, crack showing redneck look like a well refined gentleman!:D

P.S. Some of you from other lands will have no idea about a few of the words I used, so here you go:
"Bundy"- Bundaberg Rum. A disgusting teeth-rotting drink that is drunk by rednecks the land over.

"ute"-Utility vehicle. Basically a smaller (than those massive F-series type vehicles that Americans love) pick-up.

This has been your lesson for today.

barstard.

steve_hill4
May 3, 2006, 07:34 AM
Please don't insult Kermit...it's not easy being green.
Just ask Bill. He muse be so green over Leopard now Vista has been put back yet again.

imikem
May 3, 2006, 08:34 AM
(...)

AND SO DELL GOES DOWN BECAUSE WITHOUT WINDOWS ENHANCEMENTS DELL HAS NOTHING NEW TO SELL, and this relationship is actually what I was bugging the DULL lovers about, but here is the REALLY BIG kicker.

Why, oh why, oh why, is DULL LEADING MSs stock price down or probably soon up :confused:

(...)



I suspect the fall in Dell's fortunes has much more to do with their long romantic liaison with Intel, as the past couple of years have seen AMD's Athlon and Opteron wipe the floor with the Pentium 4 waffle irons. My company hasn't bought an Intel based server for two years, as opposed to a couple of dozen AMD-based. Their fortunes here will likely improve with the upcoming Merom/Conroe/Woodcrest, but...

The last Dells we bought were desktops for the company staff -- EVERY ONE OF THEM has had mobo and/or drives replaced at least once, apparently due to poor thermal characteristics. Their support, which used to be solid, has gone utterly to crap. I can't tell you how many hours I've spent escalating what should be simple/brief support calls, following my staff's getting the talk-to-the-hand treatment from those clowns. I'm tempted to post a couple of the messages I've fired off to Dell management. Unless I get evidence that support is again a priority rather than a cost center to minimize, we won't be buying more from them. HP has been much better for us in that regard, plus they sell AMD kit.

We bought a bunch of iBook G4s for our mobile users early last year. Mine had the only significant problem - dead power supply brick, and that may well have been due to a power surge. Apple support was great, they handled it quickly with no hassles.

chatin
May 3, 2006, 09:05 AM
I think Michael Dell missed the important - being fired and reinventing oneself - part of his M.B.A. training!

The corporate culture is all screwed up when you have lots of disgruntled employees hanging on ihatedell.net - "the #1 disgruntled employee message board!"

Wow, does this company have issues!

:eek: :eek: :eek:

Fabio_gsilva
May 3, 2006, 09:16 AM
...i was afraid someone would call me crazy, but since you're with me on this, i must stress how scary ugly grotesque and ultimately tragic is that performance of Ballmer(de) among others...

i won't say no more; some things should fade unnoticed for the sake of humanity...


WTF??? Horrible...

Thank God that I saw it in the morning... nightmares are a true fear now...

itguy06
May 3, 2006, 11:15 AM
I think Michael Dell missed the important - being fired and reinventing oneself - part of his M.B.A. training!


He had no MBA training - dropped out of college, just like Gates and Jobs.

Gasu E.
May 3, 2006, 11:50 AM
P.S. Some of you from other lands will have no idea about a few of the words I used, so here you go:
"Bundy"- Bundaberg Rum. A disgusting teeth-rotting drink that is drunk by rednecks the land over.

"ute"-Utility vehicle. Basically a smaller (than those massive F-series type vehicles that Americans love) pick-up.

This has been your lesson for today.

barstard.

Ah, go stuff a jumbuck in yer tucker-bag. :p

Gasu E.
May 3, 2006, 11:52 AM
http://www.originalalamo.com/images/kermit.jpg

any similarities? :D :D :D


Wow, does Kermit have a prominent chin, or what?

Gasu E.
May 3, 2006, 12:01 PM
Where is your information from, because you are wrong pal.


AAPL has one of the highest ranked consensus scores of the Personal Computers Industry.
AAPL Coverage: 28 IRPs | Industry Average: 14 IRPs
Rank in Technology Sector
86.8%
AAPL's consensus score is higher than 86.8% of the Technology Sector.
AAPL Coverage: 28 IRPs | Sector Average: 10 IRPs
Rank in Jaywalk Universe
79.8%
AAPL's consensus score is higher than 79.8% of the Jaywalk Universe.
AAPL Coverage: 28 IRPs | Jaywalk Average: 10 IRPs

Apple has been in front of Dell in the consensus for weeks. The analyst review apple as:
Reuters Outperform, Rochdale Outperform, sabrient Outperform, Thompson says Buy. Dell: Hold, Hold, Hold, Hold
As for the others you stated, Intel(intc) HOLD, Ford STRONG SELL.

Where is his information coming from? Pretty much any textbook on financial markets will say nearly the same thing as bommai (the one exception being that bommai is wrong on what a negative PE means). A high P/E means the market expects high earnings growth potential.

Dr.Gargoyle
May 3, 2006, 12:25 PM
The best thing Dell can do is to close down business and divide the remaining money among the stockholders... Hmmm, that quote rings a bit familiar.;)

adk
May 3, 2006, 12:48 PM
The best thing Dell can do is to close down business and divide the remaining money among the stockholders... Hmmm, that quote rings a bit familiar.;)


I think they might be better off if they just stop selling $300 computers at a loss.

yac_moda
May 3, 2006, 01:10 PM
I suspect the fall in Dell's fortunes has much more to do with their long romantic liaison with Intel, as the past couple of years have seen AMD's Athlon and Opteron wipe the floor with the Pentium 4 waffle irons ...

... bought a bunch of iBook G4s for our mobile users early last year. Mine had the only significant problem - dead power supply brick, and that may well have been due to a power surge. Apple support was great, they handled it quickly with no hassles.


YOU obviously DID NOT LOOK AT THE STOCK CHART that I very conveniently provided YOU a link to :eek: :eek: :eek:

I also perviously put Intel and Apple into that chart and there was NO CONNECTION AT BETWEEN Intel and The DULL, but Apple does seem to be following Intel.

One year I had a testing lab full of DULLs which ALL lost there video cards before one year was out -- support handled it no problem.

yac_moda
May 3, 2006, 01:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CompUser
God, someone needs to tell that man to wear an undershirt. That is quite possibly the most disgusting thing I have seen all week.

yep. i admire that someone is so excited for a copany they work for, but that is just grotesque...

What he is showing IS NOT EXCITEMENT its DEPENDANCY :eek: :mad:

Its NO ACCIDENT that you typed coPAINy instead of COMPANY :D ;)

yac_moda
May 3, 2006, 01:31 PM
Part 2 OF MY SAGA OF DELL vs. DULL :eek:


Dell started down on the 13th MS gapped down on the 28th.

Most excellent 5 day chart ...
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=DELL&t=5d&l=on&z=m&q=l&c=msft


So Dull is leading MS by about 15 days, which from knowing how internal announcements go THAT WOULD BE SPOT ON FOR INSIDER TRADING :eek: :eek: :eek:

And it looks like Dull maybe becoming Dell again if the trend holds for the rest of the day, meanwhile MS drops FASTER :eek:

We will see if Dell starts to rise again then in 10 to 15 days MS starts to rise again.

Once something like this is occurs each time it repeats it gets shorter and shorter until it happens so fast you can't profit from it.


!!! WOW ¡¡¡ NOW THIS is the TRUE root cause of both MS and DULLs valuations ...
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060503/bs_nm/retail_walmart_computers_dc_2

"Wal-Mart Stores Inc. (NYSE:WMT - news) will start selling build-your-own-computer components in more than one-third of its U.S. discount stores this month as it looks for ways to tempt shoppers to buy more than just low-margin food.

ADVERTISEMENT

Wal-Mart currently offers only prepackaged bundles of personal computers and accessories in most of its stores. With the build-your-own-computer counters, shoppers can choose between several different components.

Such components include central processing units -- the brain of the computer that powers its basic functions -- as well as monitors, keyboards and mice that customers can combine to create customized packages they can load in a shopping cart and take home right away."


This is a great opportunity for APPLE IF they started selling a thin version of Mac OS.

DULL is toast ¡¡¡

jefhatfield
May 3, 2006, 02:56 PM
He had no MBA training - dropped out of college, just like Gates and Jobs.

and dell didn't let his family know about his dropping out until he was worth a million...it kind of lessened the blow :)

and by the time his family, and many americans really knew what he was up to, he was worth a billion dollars

barstard
May 4, 2006, 04:46 AM
Ah, go stuff a jumbuck in yer tucker-bag. :p

Lol! Goodonyamaaate!:D

barstard.

DeVizardofOZ
May 4, 2006, 08:16 AM
I think Mr. Jobs (who I always admired for his foresight) has to do a MUCH BETTER JOB, if he wants to get a larger market share for his Laptops... The quality of these is simply unacceptable. I suggest he dumps the QUALITY CONTROL MAN in charge at ASUSTEC.
Especially a new product should come out perfect...
I own a TEN YEAR OLD Toshiba laptop, which has a DVD drive, a build in camera, and has worked (and still does work) just fine.
I am in the market to switch to an APPLE MBP 17",but when hearing about all these problems I will wait... In fact, even the old PowerBooks had serious problems, especially with the screen. Flickering until they went dead.
The APPLE Company is just as arrogant as any when it comes to giving the customer SERVICE and VALUE for the big money they pay for the new line of computers.
:(

yac_moda
May 4, 2006, 04:50 PM
!!! Wo O oW กกก

MS is following Dell very well but now Dell is one day ahead of MS :eek:

milatchi
May 4, 2006, 11:44 PM
Apple was always worth more than Dell, to me. :cool:

jefhatfield
May 5, 2006, 08:37 AM
I think Mr. Jobs (who I always admired for his foresight) has to do a MUCH BETTER JOB, if he wants to get a larger market share for his Laptops... The quality of these is simply unacceptable. I suggest he dumps the QUALITY CONTROL MAN in charge at ASUSTEC.
Especially a new product should come out perfect...
I own a TEN YEAR OLD Toshiba laptop, which has a DVD drive, a build in (

when i first started getting interested in computers, i worked at office depot in 1999 and sometimes people would bring in their older model laptops to see if certain peripherals or software we sold were compatible

of all the older machines that i saw, the oldest and toughest were the toshibas...they were built like sherman tanks

besides toshiba, we also sold compaq, hp, and ibm thinkpads, and none at that time were built anything like the toshiba

in their price range over the long haul, i don't think there is any pc company that builds a laptop, year after year, as sturdy as toshiba makes them

i think over the last eight years, apple has been pretty consistent with the quality of their laptops except for the logic board in some g3 ibooks, last years powerbooks, and the recent macbook pros...all other apple portables have been relatively tough and reliable, but it could be said, just from looking at these forums over the years, that apple has had quality issues for a couple of years now unlike the years previous...and i hope things look better because it does look like someone is sleeping at the wheel

DeVizardofOZ
May 5, 2006, 09:34 AM
when i first started getting interested in computers, i worked at office depot in 1999 and sometimes people would bring in their older model laptops to see if certain peripherals or software we sold were compatible

of all the older machines that i saw, the oldest and toughest were the toshibas...they were built like sherman tanks

besides toshiba, we also sold compaq, hp, and ibm thinkpads, and none at that time were built anything like the toshiba

in their price range over the long haul, i don't think there is any pc company that builds a laptop, year after year, as sturdy as toshiba makes them

i think over the last eight years, apple has been pretty consistent with the quality of their laptops except for the logic board in some g3 ibooks, last years powerbooks, and the recent macbook pros...all other apple portables have been relatively tough and reliable, but it could be said, just from looking at these forums over the years, that apple has had quality issues for a couple of years now unlike the years previous...and i hope things look better because it does look like someone is sleeping at the wheel


Can't agree more. As I said, I am in the market for a great machine, but shall patiently wait until the guy at the helm wakes up:p . In all those years I worked with Windoof based computers (and I am ony a user) I spent lots of time doing the R&D for Bill Gates&Co. Those who agree with me should file a class action law suit against MS claiming to be reimbursed for the many hours we spent... That should teach them and maybe scare the poop out of others who deliver bad hard- and software.

It is time, we the consumers should stop being fans, and instead wield our combined consumer force to get a top quality product for our hard earned money.

:D